[HN Gopher] Cory Doctorow: 'We do not have fast companies anymore'
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cory Doctorow: 'We do not have fast companies anymore'
        
       Author : meiraleal
       Score  : 25 points
       Date   : 2023-09-26 19:49 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.fastcompany.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.fastcompany.com)
        
       | lacker wrote:
       | I read Cory Doctorow's new book, and I like his ideas in the
       | abstract. I think he overestimates the amount that the tech
       | companies use the law to defend themselves, though.
       | 
       |  _There's no technical reason you couldn't use scrapers and bots,
       | to pull in the posts from the people you follow and reply to them
       | without really being a Twitter user. And the thing that stops us
       | from doing that is that there are laws that allow Twitter to come
       | after you and destroy you if you did._
       | 
       | There are many scrapers for services like Facebook. Most of them
       | don't pay attention to the law. Facebook fights these by funding
       | "site integrity" teams that intentionally break the compatibility
       | for scraping tools.
       | 
       | The key difference here is between goods and services. When
       | someone sells a physical good, like an IBM PC in the 1980's, they
       | can't stop you from reverse engineering it. If you build
       | something that works with it, the manufacturer doesn't have any
       | options any more. The devices are "out in the wild".
       | 
       | For a service, like Facebook, the technical arms races work
       | differently. If someone creates a popular extension that, for
       | example, removes ads from your Facebook feed, a team of Facebook
       | engineers will start working on breaking that extension. You can
       | fix it again, they can break it again, this can just keep
       | happening. As long as Facebook can spend more money to break your
       | service than you can to fix it, your product will never really
       | work smoothly.
       | 
       | This isn't to say that regulation is doomed. For example,
       | requiring iPhones to use USB-C seems like it has clearly
       | succeeded. The law to make phone numbers portable also seems to
       | have succeeded. I just think that it will not work to simply
       | "reset the law to neutral" like Doctorow imagines. If we want
       | services like Facebook and Twitter to be open and interoperate,
       | we need to have specific legal requirements.
       | 
       | For example, should an application be allowed to export your
       | contacts' birthdays from a social media service? Their phone
       | numbers? Should an application be allowed to export your entire
       | social media posting history?
       | 
       | These aren't obvious questions to me - openness and privacy are
       | often in conflict.
        
         | deely3 wrote:
         | 1. These terms govern your collection of data from Facebook
         | through automated means, such as through harvesting bots,
         | robots, spiders, or scrapers ("Automated Data Collection"), as
         | well as your use of that data.
         | 
         | 2. You will not engage in Automated Data Collection without
         | Facebook's express written permission.
         | 
         | 3. By obtaining permission to engage in Automated Data
         | Collection you agree to abide by these Automated Data
         | Collection Terms, which incorporate by reference the Statement
         | of Rights and Responsibilities.
         | 
         | ....
         | 
         | From:
         | 
         | https://m.facebook.com/apps/site_scraping_tos_terms.php
        
           | zlg_codes wrote:
           | If you don't have an account with Facebook, they have no
           | relationship with you and cannot point to any contract like
           | ToS because you never agreed to anything.
        
       | hintymad wrote:
       | He's not wrong. Lockheed used to build U2 prototype that could
       | fucking fly from ground up in 150 days with like 20 people? Now
       | companies will build a 200-person team to build damn UI. Of
       | course, I'm exaggerating, but that's the idea.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-09-26 23:01 UTC)