[HN Gopher] macOS Sonoma is available today
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       macOS Sonoma is available today
        
       Author : mfiguiere
       Score  : 216 points
       Date   : 2023-09-26 17:12 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | say_it_as_it_is wrote:
       | > Keyboard: Autocorrect receives a comprehensive update with a
       | transformer language model, a state-of-the-art on-device machine
       | learning language model that improves accuracy. A refreshed
       | design makes corrections easier to fix and inline predictions
       | quickly finish sentences. Dictation brings next-level speech
       | recognition and the ability to move fluidly between voice and
       | typing.
        
         | mousetree wrote:
         | duck
        
           | thiht wrote:
           | Interesting detail from the detailed release notes:
           | 
           | > Explicit language handling. The keyboard will add explicit
           | language that you use to your personal vocabulary list and
           | will learn this usage for each different app. Explicit
           | language that is learned is used for autocorrect and
           | suggestions
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | I've been on the release candidates and the OS is very stable and
       | I haven't found any major breakages or random crashes . Also,
       | homebrew has been working great and lots of other open source
       | software S
        
         | nelsonfigueroa wrote:
         | Good to know! I was debating whether or not I should wait for a
         | *.1 update.
        
           | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
           | This is NEVER a bad idea.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | Same for me, mostly. I had bumped into problems with apps I
         | use:
         | 
         | * Little Snitch needs a nightly build (status: fixed)
         | 
         | * SoundSource doesn't work (status: fixed)
         | 
         | * SpamSieve v2 doesn't work because Mail.app removed plugin
         | support in favor of extensions. (status: SpamSieve v3 is out
         | now and works)
         | 
         | * Marked 2 broke on docs shorter than 999 visible bytes
         | (status: still broken. Workaround: BBEdit text filter to add a
         | bunch of lorem ipsum)
         | 
         | * Bartender 4 doesn't work. (status: Bartender 5 is out and
         | works)
         | 
         | The OS itself and 1st-party apps have been mostly fine from the
         | first beta.
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | I've used Nativefier for years and am excited for this new
       | feature described in the release notes:
       | 
       | > _Web apps let you use any website like an app, complete with an
       | icon in the Dock for faster access and a simplified toolbar for
       | easier browsing._
        
         | sccxy wrote:
         | Chrome has supported those PWA shortcuts in macOS at least
         | several years...
        
           | ubercow13 wrote:
           | But every time you opened one it would also open a separate
           | Chrome window that you had to keep open, which made them kind
           | of useless.
        
             | hu3 wrote:
             | How so?
             | 
             | I can close Chrome and any PWA application independently.
             | 
             | None of them have to be kept open. Even for notifications,
             | if I allow.
             | 
             | And I just found out I can even cast the entire window to
             | my TV, which is cool https://i.imgur.com/efF1moy.png
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | Total aside, but if you have a Mac laptop and an AppleTV,
               | you can easily mirror or extend your desktop to that
               | apple tv over wifi.
        
               | hu3 wrote:
               | Yeah I've used that feature on my wife's mac, it's pretty
               | cool.
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | The first app I enabled it for is Slack. The calling
         | functionality doesn't seem enabled there but everything else
         | looked and felt great. Finally, don't need to use all my
         | cutting-edge tech's capabilities just to run a bunch of
         | chromiums side by side.
        
         | hu3 wrote:
         | Is that the PWA install feature thing?
         | 
         | Windows/Chrome has that feature. For example accessing
         | https://github.com shows an install button, which creates icon
         | for direct access and allows GitHub to have a dedicated window
         | and notifications.
         | 
         | https://i.imgur.com/IjxsMpA.png
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | Like Fluid, kinda
        
         | Y-bar wrote:
         | Are these separate instances/containers with regards to cache
         | and cookies and such? I would love to have this because I have
         | multiple Atlassian accounts I need to juggle and it is a pain
         | today.
        
           | wilg wrote:
           | Safari (like Chrome) now has profiles for this also.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | What is this:
       | 
       | * Screen Sharing: A new high performance mode in the Screen
       | Sharing app delivers incredibly responsive remote access over
       | high-bandwidth connections -- enabling creative professionals to
       | accomplish their work remotely.*
        
         | matthew-wegner wrote:
         | I noticed this for the first time today, despite running the
         | betas on my laptop (you need to connect to Sonoma _from_
         | Sonoma, and I don 't upgrade across the board).
         | 
         | I suspect it's the underlying tech that streams macOS into the
         | Vision Pro. The "High Performance" mode lets you select 1 or 2
         | virtual displays, and always blacks out the host machine
         | completely.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | See "Better screen sharing":
         | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/five-cool-features-a...
        
       | signal_space wrote:
       | the only thing this update borked for me is the safari kagi
       | plugin
        
         | leipert wrote:
         | Same on iOS 17
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | It works on my iPhone.
           | 
           | To be clear, I'm not a Kagi support person or anything, and
           | also not arguing that anyone's _wrong_ for saying it 's not
           | working for them. Just saying, it _is_ working for some
           | people on Mac and iPhone, so it 's not totally borked.
        
             | leipert wrote:
             | True. I just followed the instructions again and it is
             | working. Apparently I had to allow access on all websites
             | again and change the search engine from DDG to Google for
             | the extension to work.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | Huh. I'm using it without problems. Any chance you're using
         | multiple Safari profiles (new feature in Sonoma) and it's not
         | enabled in the profile you have active?
        
           | signal_space wrote:
           | ill double check but i mentioned it on the forums and they
           | suggested i use orion
           | 
           | https://kagifeedback.org/d/1708-inconsistently-redirects-
           | to-...
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | I love Kagi-the-search-engine, but I'm not at all surprised
             | they recommended you switch to Orion.
             | 
             | If you go into Safari's extension settings, is their
             | extension enabled for all websites?
        
         | w1nst0nsm1th wrote:
         | You can use xsearch instead and use a bang for kagy or Redirect
         | Web for Safari.
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | I still don't understand why Apple is so bent on coupling
       | application updates together with OS updates.
       | 
       | I just want the new changes to Safari and Notes while I don't
       | care about the other changes, why not have Safari be a normal
       | application downloaded from the App Store, like the rest of us
       | pleebs have to do when publishing apps?
        
         | derefr wrote:
         | macOS is a BSD; the whole point of BSDs is that the OS and
         | "base system" are vertically integrated (and, usually, living
         | in a monorepo together) so that a dev can one day decide to add
         | a new API to replace one currently used by first-party apps, by
         | just adding the code and then doing a big Search+Replace to fix
         | all first-party apps to use it, all in a single commit.
        
           | Klonoar wrote:
           | The user land is from FreeBSD. It is not "a BSD" otherwise
           | but this myth still gets repeated constantly.
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | macOS is a BSD in the same way that Linux is a Unix.
           | 
           | i.e. they may have started out that way, but almost nothing
           | is gained thinking about this history today, despite it being
           | factually correct.
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | What I mean is that:
             | 
             | - Darwin is developed "as" a BSD -- a vertically-integrated
             | base-system monorepo that contains the kernel, the system
             | libraries, and the low-level userland services and
             | software. Rather than teams working on one component that
             | has a contractual ABI with other components, there are no
             | real "team-shear-layer" ABIs, except at the public API
             | level that gets presented to users; and instead, anywhere
             | below the userland public API level, is free to be modified
             | as part of the project of modifying system software.
             | (Think, by analogy, the introduction of pledge(3) in
             | OpenBSD. Apple can insert new "technologies" like that
             | throughout every layer of the system very easily--and they
             | often do!)
             | 
             | - Darwin is _installed_ and _tested_ like a BSD: it 's a
             | whole base-system release, containing an inseparable kernel
             | + base system. There is no way to test individual
             | components in isolation (without a complete mock of the
             | rest of the base system), as the components may all have
             | circular dependencies -- the kernel can depend on the base
             | system just as the base system can depend on the kernel,
             | because it's all one "layer." There's no package manager;
             | no packaging; no components with separate build artifacts
             | that get "integrated." You just _build_ an entire base
             | system, and have to wholesale swap your old base-system for
             | the new one. (In the  "old days" on minicomputers, the
             | rootfs wasn't BSD per se, but was specific to booting that
             | machine; while /usr was a BSD on tape, direct from
             | Berkeley. An "OS upgrade" of a BSD was a new /usr tape for
             | you to mount on next reboot. These days, macOS uses APFS
             | system volumes to achieve almost exactly the same thing.)
             | 
             | AFAIK, there's no real good name for these properties
             | besides "a BSD" -- despite these properties not really
             | being BSD-specific. Maybe let's call this "BSD-style OS
             | architecture"?
             | 
             | macOS before OSX already _had_ BSD-style OS architecture --
             | though it was something closer to embedded OS architecture
             | at first, shipping OS-on-ROM in early Macs, and only
             | evolving toward updateable on-disk kernels with System
             | 7-or-so. But the Apple development team 's BSD-style
             | "thinking", is what made the choice of merging macOS with
             | the Jobs' NeXT Darwin BSD base-system, an "intuitive"
             | operation, rather than something fraught with paradigm-
             | conflict. It's the same reason that Apple ran NetBSD on the
             | servers they ran to back WebObjects for iTMS, back when:
             | "BSD-style" is how Apple engineers think.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | justoreply wrote:
         | I have a company-provided mac, I don't have an App Store
         | account as it requires a phone number (and I'm not going to use
         | my personal phone number to register it, it is not even allowed
         | by policy) so I'm not going to update any app via the store
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Well, then this doesn't really affect you as you don't have a
           | choice regarding updates at all :)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | twostorytower wrote:
         | Safari 17 is also available on Monterey (macOS 12) or Ventura
         | (macOS 13).
        
         | tppiotrowski wrote:
         | No need for a testing matrix (Does version X of app work with
         | version Y of MacOS)?
         | 
         | Not needing to bundle dependencies that you know are provided
         | by your OS environment?
         | 
         | Easy to investigate and fix bugs (You don't need a VM of every
         | MacOS version on your machine)?
        
         | andai wrote:
         | Cause then no one would update?
        
         | mrWiz wrote:
         | This method reduces testing burden by eliminating the
         | combination of an old OS with new app.
         | 
         | They might also see it as an incentive - perhaps new app
         | features act as driver for OS adoption.
        
           | cj wrote:
           | On the flip side, zero-day WebKit security vulnerabilities
           | require a full OS update to patch Safari.
           | 
           | From a security perspective decoupling from OS updates seems
           | advantageous.
        
             | angulardragon03 wrote:
             | RSRs [1] are sort of not this though. They're still a bit
             | weird, but can contain updates for WebKit and/or Safari in
             | a very small update that installs very quickly. Also worth
             | noting that WebKit is buried pretty deep in macOS (as it
             | underpins a lot more than just Safari) so isn't as easy to
             | patch by itself.
             | 
             | [1] https://support.apple.com/en-
             | mk/guide/deployment/dep93ff7ea7...
        
         | coldtea wrote:
         | Most of the new app features are tied to OS-wide and OS-APIs
         | wide capabilities, so they can't release "just Notes" without
         | the OS-level frameworks that support those features. Take for
         | example the PDF editing/support in Notes now. Or the Pages
         | compatibility. Or Note widgets for the desktop, etc. Similar
         | case for Safari, as they offer the webkit widget and JSCore as
         | an OS-level APIs too.
         | 
         | Plus of course everything is tested together (which is what
         | Linux distros also do. They update their apps for minor
         | releases and bugfixes but not major releases for the same
         | distro).
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | I give you that some of the new features are tied to OS-wide
           | updates, but many of them seems they're not. And if they
           | wanted to, they could still decouple apps from OS updates and
           | if you're on a old OS version and the new app update requires
           | a newer OS, just block that specific update from happening.
           | 
           | > Plus of course everything is tested together
           | 
           | That makes sense, Apple's QA department seems to be held
           | together with tape for the last decade or so, as every new
           | update seems to break something, so maybe they're trying to
           | make it as easy as possible now in order to recover.
        
         | mackmgg wrote:
         | I'm not sure why Notes needs to be bundled with the OS update,
         | but Safari isn't. You can download Safari 17 for macOS Ventura
         | as well! Only the features that require integration with other
         | apps (such as auto-filling 2FA codes from Mail) require Sonoma.
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | The fact that Safari is available for multiple OS versions
           | might be a remnant of the work done to ship Safari for
           | Windows.
        
         | nlarew wrote:
         | Apple knows that you want the app updates. They want you to
         | update to the latest OS for a variety of reasons (support,
         | security, marketing, etc). They also know you paid thousands of
         | dollars for your laptop and aren't likely to switch off of
         | macOS entirely. So, they bundle the app updates to the OS
         | update as an incentive.
        
         | hyperjeff wrote:
         | A lot of the app updates are using new APIs that only exist
         | starting with the OS update. Practical way to surface the new
         | OS features.
        
       | fh9302 wrote:
       | For those curious, yes Apple did fix the Sonoma firewall bug
       | reported by Mullvad.
       | 
       | https://mullvad.net/en/blog/2023/9/22/macos-14-sonoma-firewa...
        
         | l5870uoo9y wrote:
         | Have this affected other VPN clients as well?
        
         | elashri wrote:
         | I was about to submit the same comment. This was the thing that
         | would have prevented me from upgrading. I searched if it waa
         | fixed. As it would have affected Little snitch and Mullvad VPN
         | which is essential apps on my mac.
        
         | kdrag0n wrote:
         | Yep, OrbStack's networking issue (similar PF bug) was also
         | fixed in RC 2.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | Seems strange Safari 17 is still not released for monterey.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | _boffin_ wrote:
       | Anyone know what's up with CGPDFService and why there's so many
       | instances eating up my cpu?
        
       | de6u99er wrote:
       | I hope it can do DisplayPort Multi Stream Transport. Currently I
       | have to connect one screen through TB4, and the other one through
       | HDMI despite the TB4 screen being able to daisy chain through
       | DisplayPort.
       | 
       | One screen is a 32 inch UHD 60Hz monitor and the other one is a
       | 24 inch 2560x1440 90Hz screen which is rotated by 90 degrees.
        
         | DiabloD3 wrote:
         | The hardware supports it fine, if you ran any other OS it'd
         | work.
         | 
         | OSX refuses to support it because it eats into their monitor
         | sales that use an alternative TB-based multiplexing protocol
         | (which is only available on Apple devices, which are, well, not
         | the world's best monitors, yet somehow the most expensive per
         | square inch in a lot of cases).
         | 
         | All the various incarnations as far back as Ivy Bridge's TB2
         | should have working support in Windows and Linux. I have
         | physically tested it on my MBPR from that era, and it worked,
         | and I know of other people's newer OS-swapped Macs also
         | working.
         | 
         | Lack of MST support in OSX has historically blocked 4k early
         | adopters: 4k screens exported themselves as two logical
         | displays due to 4k monitors coming out ahead of HBR2-capable
         | controllers.
         | 
         | As for ARM-era Macs, as far as I know, they licensed a common
         | ASIC block for their DisplayPort transceiver, which is also
         | what AMD, Nvidia, and Intel have done. So, their hardware
         | should still support it fine, but I have no clue if Asahi's
         | work on the GPU driver has gotten MST to work.
        
       | peler wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | magnio wrote:
       | Most notable change to me:
       | 
       | > Notes: Users can view PDFs and scans of presentations,
       | assignments, research papers, and more right inside Notes. They
       | can also create links from one note to another to relate ideas
       | and content.
       | 
       | Can I annotate on PDFs in Notes as well, obviating the need for
       | Goodnotes and friends?
        
         | dkonofalski wrote:
         | PDF Annotation is already a system-wide OS-level feature thanks
         | to Preview so you should be able to.
        
       | sarasasa28 wrote:
       | macos sodoma?
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | > _One-Time verification code AutoFill from Mail helps you
       | quickly sign into sites in Safari, without leaving the browser._
       | 
       | I've used SMS for 2FA even though it's vulnerable to hijacking
       | because AutoFill from SMS makes it so easy. AutoFill from Mail
       | will be a welcome alternative.
        
         | flangola7 wrote:
         | So it has access to your mail? That's spooky
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ascagnel_ wrote:
           | In my experience, and on iOS, it only works with the first-
           | party Mail.app; trying to use a third-party app like GMail
           | won't pull up 2FA codes.
        
       | cglong wrote:
       | So it goes...                 Warning: You are using macOS 11.
       | We (and Apple) do not provide support for this old version.
       | It is expected behaviour that some formulae will fail to build in
       | this old version.       It is expected behaviour that Homebrew
       | will be buggy and slow.       Do not create any issues about this
       | on Homebrew's GitHub repositories.       Do not create any issues
       | even if you think this message is unrelated.       Any opened
       | issues will be immediately closed without response.       Do not
       | ask for help from Homebrew or its maintainers on social media.
       | You may ask for help in Homebrew's discussions but are unlikely
       | to receive a response.       Try to figure out the problem
       | yourself and submit a fix as a pull request.       We will review
       | it but may or may not accept it.
        
         | joeman1000 wrote:
         | Time to move to MacPorts.
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Don't move today, because the Sonoma release is not out yet.
           | https://www.macports.org/install.php
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | Once again a good time to remember that there were multiple
         | perfectly good package managers available when Homebrew was
         | invented, they were more future-proof (by eg not putting files
         | in /usr/local), and everyone only switched to it because for
         | some reason Rails programmers wanted all of their tools to be
         | written in Rails.
        
           | jeffcox wrote:
           | Ultimately users will go where the package maintainers are.
           | There are more people out there willing and able to write
           | Ruby today than Perl (Fink) or TCL (MacPorts).
           | 
           | I'm sure someone will start a macOS package manager based on
           | python and yum to signal the waning days of those
           | technologies.
        
             | jcelerier wrote:
             | I'm secretly hoping for a makepkg / pacman-based
             | replacement to homebrew, to have the same set of commands
             | and package naming conventions across mac / win / linux
        
         | climb_stealth wrote:
         | Oh oh, it's getting closer. Currently on MacOS 12 with my
         | trusted 2015 Macbook Pro. It still goes strong, but looks like
         | the next major release may see the end of homebrew for this
         | one. There's really no issue with this computer other than 16gb
         | of RAM being a bit tight when every modern app is using
         | Electron. Oh well, see how we go.
        
         | n8henrie wrote:
         | https://nixos.org/download.html#nix-install-macos
         | 
         | The homebrew team seems incredibly burnt-out, to the point of
         | hostility. I've really enjoyed the nixpkgs community so far and
         | encourage others to check it out; it hasn't replaced homebrew
         | entirely for me (yet), but it's getting closer every day.
        
           | bshacklett wrote:
           | My issue with Nix is that you are forced to install packages
           | in a global location. Why is it that every package manager
           | assumes I'm an administrator on my machine? Even if I am, how
           | does it make sense to take over a global directory as a
           | single user?
        
           | oxonia wrote:
           | Yes, the Homebrew message does seem unnecessarily hostile.
           | Not everyone can afford to buy a brand new computer every
           | year.
        
             | Condition1952 wrote:
             | Those peasants are bound to suffer the wrath of planned
             | obsolescence.
             | 
             | macOS could be a modular rolling release, but you need to
             | milk the peasants from time to time
        
           | mdaniel wrote:
           | I want to like Nix but those installation instructions for
           | macOS (and their removal friend) are just crazypants as
           | compared to the `sudo mkdir /nix && sudo chown $USER /nix`
           | from the Linux version
           | 
           | And that's not even getting into the "waaa?" from `du -hs
           | /nix` although I am open to that being a misleading dumber
           | due to hardlinks and other trickery that du may not correctly
           | surface
        
         | catlover76 wrote:
         | "If you see a Homebrew maintainer walking down the street in
         | your direction, find the nearest wall and bury your face in it
         | in shame and deference until they pass."
        
         | krackers wrote:
         | These warnings keep getting longer every homebrew release. You
         | may want to try macPorts, which goes out of their way to
         | explicitly support releases all the way down to 10.5.
        
           | cglong wrote:
           | Wow! That's quite impressive. Meanwhile there was a latent
           | bug in the Homebrew formula for Rust that affected 10.13 for
           | _a year_ until I finally spent a few hours to investigate it.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | export HOMEBREW_NO_ANALYTICS=1
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | Context? Homebrew is working fine on Sonoma here. I do not get
         | that or a similar message.
        
           | saaspirant wrote:
           | He is talking about MAC OS 11 Big Sur
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | mj4e wrote:
       | How do you get it? Not showing in settings.
        
         | rogueresearch wrote:
         | https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sonoma-full-installer-database...
        
           | mj4e wrote:
           | Thanks. Is it not available from Apple directly though?
        
             | mj4e wrote:
             | It's right at the top of the Mac App Store as 'featured'
             | with this story. Yet somehoe it doesn't include an install
             | link!
             | 
             | https://apps.apple.com/gb/story/id1699686314
             | 
             | EDIT - COMMAND + R in the settings app will reload the page
        
               | JoshGlazebrook wrote:
               | (In Settings -> Software Update) if anyone else is having
               | issues figuring it out.
        
               | sigzero wrote:
               | That's just a "what's new". You can't install it from
               | there.
        
         | dddddaviddddd wrote:
         | Settings -> General -> Software Update, then Command-R if you
         | still don't see it.
        
       | pyr0hu wrote:
       | Nice, time for the yearly reinstall. I usually reinstall my
       | MacBook whenever the new OS releases, it keeps my machine clean
       | and fast.
        
         | bnastic wrote:
         | Used to that... but once I accumulated a heap of AU plugins I
         | just couldn't bear the thought of spending a weekend
         | reinstalling all that again (plus most of them won't work with
         | the new macOS on day one).
         | 
         | Maybe time to upgrade to Ventura now.
        
         | bori5 wrote:
         | Anyone know if there is any benefit to doing a reinstall vs
         | just installing over current Ventura ? Is it for peace of mind,
         | placebo?... Any quantitative comparisons ?
        
           | pyr0hu wrote:
           | For myself, peace of mind. Previously I installed them over
           | an existing system, never had any issues.
           | 
           | I have a repo for my dotfiles and install scripts so i can
           | set up my system in like an hour
        
       | mfontani wrote:
       | I hope it finally sped up the slooow animation when switching
       | spaces... but am not holding my breath...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | robbiet480 wrote:
       | FWIW it took 30 minutes for the update on my M2 Max MacBook Pro.
        
       | uuddlrlrbaba wrote:
       | Hooray! Time to update to Ventura
        
       | Almondsetat wrote:
       | You realize OS innovation has ground to a halt when the first
       | feature advertised in a new version is screen savers
        
         | RetpolineDrama wrote:
         | The new screen savers were bumped up the priority queue because
         | Apple has a bunch of QD-OLED computers coming next year and
         | they're worried about burn-in.
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Got a source for that?
        
         | diebeforei485 wrote:
         | Not really. Consumer behavior is not what technical people
         | expect it to be. The main reason people update their phone OS
         | is for new emoji. People love this stuff.
        
           | itsoktocry wrote:
           | > _The main reason people update their phone OS is for new
           | emoji_
           | 
           | I can't avoid the anecdata game, so: what generation are you?
           | I don't know a single person who would update their phone for
           | a new emoji.
        
             | Almondsetat wrote:
             | The real question is: why are emojis tied to operating
             | system updates in Apple land?
        
               | wilg wrote:
               | To get people to upgrade! It's extraordinarily effective.
               | They seem to always do it in the first major patch after
               | a major release, to kinda ensure everyone gets a stable
               | version of the OS.
        
               | diebeforei485 wrote:
               | Because it convinces people to install the latest
               | updates!! That's the whole point.
        
             | diebeforei485 wrote:
             | On the cusp of Millennial and Gen Z
        
           | Insanity wrote:
           | Anecdata, but I feel most people don't want to upgrade the
           | software at all regardless of the features.. :p
        
         | unglaublich wrote:
         | It's a press release, advertised to customers, yes.
         | 
         | If you are a dev, look for the release notes.
         | 
         | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos-release-note...
        
         | mouzogu wrote:
         | it's pretty much for putting a new wallpaper on the yearly
         | hardware iterations so as to differentiate them.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | Apple advertises the things that 99% of the people buying their
         | products care about. That doesn't mean that things aren't
         | changing under the hood.
         | 
         | I do wish they had a developer-focused version of these
         | announcements, though. A lot of very interesting stuff usually
         | never gets mentioned officially at all.
        
         | themagician wrote:
         | macOS has felt "feature complete" to me for years now. There is
         | nothing I really want from an OS. I only upgrade for the
         | security benefits and so I can keep all my systems on the same
         | release, since new systems can't be downgraded.
         | 
         | I actually appreciate not doing relentless "innovation" just
         | for the sake of doing it. Microsoft does this by slapping new
         | UIs on top of old every damn release. They often don't even
         | remove the old stuff, they just mask it with "innovation."
         | macOS does this too, but not nearly as bad. In Windows there
         | are like 7 different layers of UI. You can click a half dozen
         | times in the settings in Windows 11 and basically time travel
         | back to Windows 2000.
         | 
         | I think the reason I don't hate this stuff on macOS as much is
         | because most of the changes are iOS-ification, and I use iOS so
         | I somewhat intuitively know how to navigate the changes.
        
           | itsoktocry wrote:
           | > _macOS has felt "feature complete" to me for years now._ >
           | _Microsoft does this by slapping new UIs on top of old every
           | damn release_
           | 
           | This OS upgrade looks like it's mostly slapping new UIs on
           | top of old, so I'm not sure this is "doing it right".
        
             | wilg wrote:
             | Microsoft _keeps_ the old UI. At least Apple replaces it.
        
         | david422 wrote:
         | One of the last macOS versions had - click the mouse in the
         | lower right corner and notes pop up. That's a new OS feature,
         | really? I mean, I haven't really thought about it, but what's
         | left for desktop OSes these days that they need to produce new
         | releases every year.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | This is not the first macOS release (well, maybe the first one
         | where they called it "macOS") where the headline feature
         | involved screens and widgets.
        
           | Alex3917 wrote:
           | I look forward to them removing all this functionality in
           | four or five years, and then reintroducing it as a stunning
           | new innovation in another four or five years after that.
        
             | Hoasi wrote:
             | Adobe has been famous for this annoying behavior for over a
             | decade. Remove some cool features only to reintroduce them,
             | sometimes years later, as a breakthrough. Annoying, but it
             | didn't prevent them from quietly innovating.
        
         | cameronh90 wrote:
         | A few years ago, people here were complaining that MacOS was
         | too unstable from all the new features, and that they wish
         | Apple would just do a few feature-less stability releases.
         | 
         | Can't win.
        
         | hyperhello wrote:
         | It's their job to get people to click the upgrade button, so
         | developers can rely on the new advanced libraries, and if the
         | impression they make is "basic maintainance update with some
         | colorful snazz" it is more likely to happen.
         | 
         | I upgraded to the beta version and am having a bug with an app
         | that relies on WebKit so for me I wish I'd waited for the .1.
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | You should see the dismal state of innovation in 'innovation is
         | dead' comments!
        
       | iamdamian wrote:
       | Update: simscitizen has confirmed below that 1Password 7 still
       | works in Sonoma.
       | 
       | This will be the first macOS upgrade I won't be doing for a
       | while.
       | 
       | I'd like to try it out, but I need to figure out how to migrate
       | off of 1Password 7 (standalone) first or to make sure it still
       | works with Sonoma. (Edit: I'm expecting that 1Password 7 will
       | break with the new OS and make me convert to their subscription
       | product.)
        
         | philistine wrote:
         | Which features lacking from the passwords system in Sonoma
         | keeps you in 1Password?
        
         | TrueGeek wrote:
         | Does this not work well with 1Password?
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | I've been using 1Password on the Sonoma public betas and have
           | not had any problems.
        
         | dmd wrote:
         | Why does this upgrade require migrating off 1Password?
        
           | iamdamian wrote:
           | Updated to clarify. My expectation is that 1Password 7 won't
           | work on Sonoma. In my experience, AgileBits requires an
           | upgrade for new versions of macOS. IIUC, 1Password 7 is also
           | the last version that you can buy outright rather than paying
           | for by subscription.
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | Thanks, that makes much more sense.
        
             | dpcx wrote:
             | I've never had a problem using 1Password 7 on updated
             | versions of OSX. I'm in the same boat, and am still using
             | 1Password 7 on Ventura after having upgraded through
             | multiple OSs.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | dkonofalski wrote:
             | I reluctantly upgraded to the subscription for 1Pass after
             | the last OS update but I'm glad I did. The features that
             | the 1Pass team has added since then as well as the fact
             | that the subscription includes apps for all their platforms
             | has already paid itself off in my eyes.
        
               | iamdamian wrote:
               | I hear what you're saying, but I'm not planning to ever
               | move to a subscription model for storing my passwords.
        
               | dkonofalski wrote:
               | As long as you're comfortable self-hosting and admining,
               | that shouldn't be a problem.
        
               | iamdamian wrote:
               | It's funny because this really shouldn't be required (and
               | isn't with 1Password standalone). But yes, I will
               | eventually move over to BitWarden.
        
               | dkonofalski wrote:
               | Yes, but 1Password standalone is missing many of the
               | features of the subscription service that would be
               | impossible to implement without it.
        
               | iamdamian wrote:
               | That's fair, but many people (myself included) don't need
               | those.
        
             | simscitizen wrote:
             | 1Password 7 works fine for me on Sonoma.
        
               | iamdamian wrote:
               | Thanks! Updated, and sorry for the false alarm. (But I
               | have been burned in the past.)
        
               | simscitizen wrote:
               | Hm I just checked again. I appear to be using:
               | 
               | - 1Password 7 desktop app
               | 
               | - 1Password 7 Safari extension, which seems to work fine
               | (or at least the same way it always worked)
               | 
               | - The latest Chrome extension, which I believe does
               | everything in the browser
               | 
               | So I don't know how well 1Password 7 works with Chrome.
        
             | FooBarWidget wrote:
             | I was also reluctant to upgrade to 1Password 8, mostly out
             | of principle. I didn't want to pay for a subscription.
             | 
             | But after having reconsidered my disaster recovery
             | procedure, I swallowed the bitter pill after all. The
             | problem is that I need to be able to recover my passwords
             | when 1) my house was on fire AND 2) I left my phone behind
             | during the evacuation.
             | 
             | My 1Password db was stored on Dropbox. But my Dropbox
             | password is in 1Password. Furthermore Dropbox sometimes
             | requires 2-factor auth via email... and my Gmail password
             | is _also_ in 1Password. And Google is quite a bit more
             | serious about 2FA than Dropbox. So even if I write down my
             | Dropbox and Gmail password on paper and store them at my
             | parents ' home, I still can't login to Gmail easily because
             | I have lost my phone.
             | 
             | This can be solved by writing down even more stuff on
             | paper. Or by storing a USB stick of the 1Password db at my
             | parents' home (but now the stick should be encrypted, where
             | do you store the key?). The point is: the rabbit hole goes
             | deep, and you have to keep all that stuff updated. Plus my
             | parents will have access to all my data. Not that I don't
             | trust them, but what happens if someone breaks into their
             | house?
             | 
             | All this can be much simplified by just getting a 1Password
             | subscription. I store my 1Password secret key (not master
             | password) at my parents' home. They can't do anything with
             | just the secret key. I memorized my master password. All
             | 2FA recovery codes are in 1Password. This way everything
             | can be recovered without the risk that my parents or a
             | burglar at their house can access my passwords. I think
             | this simplicity in disaster recovery is worth the
             | subscription price.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | I used to love the in depth reviews of macOS from John Siracusa.
       | They aren't the same since then, but I still tend to look to Ars
       | for a full review before upgrading.
       | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/macos-14-sonoma-the-...
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | Since he has left his day job I was hoping he would start
         | writing them again but that hasn't happened.
        
         | mig39 wrote:
         | Those reviews were the best. But you could tell they took a lot
         | of time to write and prepare. Talk about thorough!
        
         | rmorey wrote:
         | I agree, no one does it like Siracusa did. But I do quite like
         | the MacStories reviews of macOS by John Voorhees:
         | https://www.macstories.net/stories/macos-sonoma-the-macstori...
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | There is no way anyone familiar with the guy wouldn't already
           | know this, but his podcast Hypercritical was great and has
           | aged well. His is 1/3rd of ATP and there is content overlap.
           | The main problem I find is that once he has complained about
           | something, I can't unsee it. It's heavily Apple focussed and
           | gives a lightweight and often hilarious version of his old
           | reviews.
           | 
           | Episode 96 'Windows of Siracusa County' was amazing.
           | 
           | https://atp.fm/
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | Hah! Yes, I cursed him a few times for making me unable to
             | see something slightly wrong. Like, friends don't point out
             | kerning mistakes to friends. That stuff needed a content
             | warning.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | spicybright wrote:
       | FINALLY we've come full circle and can have widgets on the
       | desktop again!
       | 
       | It's not like a revolutionary killer feature for me, but I just
       | always preferred having information always in my "peripheral"
       | instead of having to actively check a separate menu.
        
         | pretext-1 wrote:
         | This time it can mirror widgets from iPhone though, which makes
         | it much more useful.
        
           | wilg wrote:
           | I totally missed this and it's very cool!
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | god yes I miss Dashboard so much, it'll be absolutely hilarious
         | if old Dashboard widgets turn out to work on the new widget
         | thing.
        
         | flenserboy wrote:
         | It failed before because system resources and horsepower were
         | too low to make it work smoothly (&, let's be honest, because
         | there were often poor UI choices going hand-in-hand with poor
         | speed/smoothness). Plenty of ideas resurface, not because they
         | were bad & people think they just might work, but because they
         | weren't practical when they came up. There are plenty of faded-
         | away applications & forgotten old OSes with ideas way ahead of
         | the curve, needed speed and/or memory, & were laughed at &
         | called stupid because of system limitations that will show up
         | again in our systems, someday.
        
           | Klonoar wrote:
           | What? The old canvas based widgets in OSX were not
           | performance hogs.
        
             | philistine wrote:
             | No but the desktop toys from the 90s were difficult to
             | justify.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Wait when were widgets ever available on the desktop before?
         | 
         | Years ago they were on a separate dashboard screen but that
         | wasn't the desktop.
         | 
         | This seems entirely new, not any kind of full circle.
         | 
         | Edit: just to clarify, I'm talking about on Macs, not Windows.
        
           | thangngoc89 wrote:
           | Windows Vista and Windows 7 circa. Separate dashboard screen
           | is from Windows 8
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | Windows had Active Desktop way back in the day.
             | 
             | https://duet-cdn.vox-
             | cdn.com/thumbor/0x0:1020x765/2400x1800/...
        
           | speedgoose wrote:
           | On Mac OS X Tiger, I remember that you could open the
           | dashboard, drag a widget, and close the dashboard before you
           | release the mouse and keep the widget on the desktop. But I
           | may remember wrong.
        
             | Klonoar wrote:
             | You could, but I think you had to enable a hidden setting
             | to do so.
             | 
             | I used to keep a few on my desktop with this.
        
           | paradox460 wrote:
           | Desktop Accessories were on Mac since 1984.
           | 
           | Konfabulator was a much more modern precursor to Dashboard,
           | and existed in the early 00s. It put them directly on your
           | desktop.
           | 
           | Also you could make Dashboard widgets stick around by
           | changing a plist setting
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | DA's weren't widgets though. They were just regular apps
             | with regular windows but with a black title bar. You
             | couldn't stick them to the desktop or anything.
             | 
             | And Konfabulator was cool but it wasn't part of the OS.
             | 
             | The plist setting is interesting though -- definitely never
             | knew about that. But again, not part of how they were
             | designed to operate for the average end user.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
       | Was a bit surprised to learn that my MacBook Pro from 2017 isn't
       | supported. It doesn't look like Sonoma has many new innovations
       | though, so I guess I'm not missing out on much.
       | 
       | Operating systems feel like they've really stagnated in the past
       | decade.
        
       | regularjack wrote:
       | I guess now it's safe for me to install Ventura.
        
       | mfiguiere wrote:
       | Complete list of new features in macOS Sonoma:
       | 
       | https://www.apple.com/macos/sonoma/pdf/macOS_All_New_Feature...
        
         | l5870uoo9y wrote:
         | I was just about to say that there isn't any changes worthwhile
         | in this release and that Apple employees x people in the
         | marketing sub department that takes care of the yearly releases
         | and they will - regardless of anything else - do the yearly
         | release fanfare with all the bells and whistles :-).
        
         | thiht wrote:
         | > Explicit language handling. The keyboard will add explicit
         | language that you use to your personal vocabulary list and will
         | learn this usage for each different app. Explicit language that
         | is learned is used for autocorrect and suggestions
         | 
         | This is ducking great.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | > and will learn this usage for each different app.
           | 
           | Yes, not in Outlook, please.
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | The number of 'system' features for an OS update is small. The
         | most interesting one to me is the AirPods variable noise
         | cancellation which is more along the lines of hardware
         | accessory support. There's something not quite right when an OS
         | update mainly updates web browser, apps, widgets, etc.
         | 
         | Is there another set of notes that has all the underlying API
         | changes supported that 3rd parties can use?
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/technologies?chang.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/macos-release-
           | note...
        
         | de6u99er wrote:
         | Was looking for this. Thank you!
        
       | webkike wrote:
       | Please, for the love of god, add native window snapping.
        
         | evan_ wrote:
         | Just because you don't want to have to install a thing, or is
         | there something that native support would be able to do that
         | third-party apps can't?
        
           | yunohn wrote:
           | Currently, snapped windows jump around Spaces and resize for
           | every monitor connection/resolution change. It's incredibly
           | frustrating to not have any consistent behavior. 3P apps
           | can't solve this as there is no public API for managing
           | windows with Spaces. Of course, the native window manager
           | could solve this...
        
         | notesinthefield wrote:
         | I moved from Fedora to MacOS a few months ago and its
         | unbelievable the shortcuts apple added to make window
         | management bearable and even still, it is impossible without an
         | add-on. I refuse to believe anyone at apple thinks it is okay
         | and is able to actually work at all.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | This bugged me when I first switched, too. I highly recommend
           | going with the flow and doing it the Apple way for a while. I
           | was frustrated at trying and failing to make my Mac act just
           | like Linux. It's bad at that.
        
           | thiht wrote:
           | Rectangle is one of the first things I always install when on
           | a Mac... and yet I never use it anymore.
           | 
           | I remember using it a lot on Windows, but since I've switched
           | to macOS I think I've migrated entirely to their Mission
           | Control way of handling windows. I'm not sure why but I very
           | rarely _need_ to have 2 windows side by side anymore, maybe
           | because I can just three-finger swipe to compare windows.
           | 
           | I still think Rectangle should be integrated as a native
           | feature, but I think I understand why it's not.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | > _Please, for the love of god, add native window snapping._
         | 
         | macOS has had built-in "window snapping" since 2015.
         | https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204948
         | 
         | And if/when you need more advanced window management, there's a
         | plethora of free and paid options.
        
           | Insanity wrote:
           | That is not remotely as powerful as actual window snapping
           | and feels more like what a tablet OS would need rather than a
           | desktop OS.
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | > _That is not remotely as powerful as actual window
             | snapping..._
             | 
             | I assume because that type of advanced window management is
             | a poor default for a mainstream audience.
             | 
             | Happily, there are great options for this. My preference
             | right now is Raycast's Window Management extension.
             | https://www.raycast.com/extensions/window-management
        
               | Insanity wrote:
               | I agree to a certain extent, but I see people regularly
               | using the 4 corner window snapping in Windows. Especially
               | as 1440p and 4k monitors gain adoption.
        
               | CharlesW wrote:
               | Fair enough, although I can hear the future complaints
               | about Apple "Sherlocking" Magnet already. :^)
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | I use sizeup. Small price to pay for great keyboard shortcuts
         | to manage windows. https://www.irradiatedsoftware.com/sizeup/
         | 
         | after spending the last 2 months on desktop linux full time -
         | I'd rather pay $12 and use macos than pay nothing and have a
         | worse open source experience.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | marssaxman wrote:
         | What does "native window snapping" mean?
        
           | tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote:
           | Not having to install apps like Rectangle to snap windows
           | into desired areas.
           | 
           | [1] https://rectangleapp.com
        
             | marssaxman wrote:
             | Huh! People's preferences really do vary. Thanks for the
             | reference.
        
         | phforms wrote:
         | I've been using Rectangle Pro for more than a year now and it
         | works pretty great. However, I found that I don't actually use
         | snapping that much (maybe I'm just not used to it). My most
         | used features is actually the move and resize modifier keys,
         | which let me drag/resize a window without having to go through
         | the pain (more or less, depending on the window clutter) of
         | having to move my mouse to that small area where I can do that.
         | Seriously, it's been such a game changer for me that I wish
         | Apple would make this a built-in feature.
        
         | oidar wrote:
         | I use the open source system tray app Rectangle for this.
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | Yeah, there are some third party addons, but the built in
           | window management is appallingly primitive. It's just bad.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Isn't that basically why you get Apple stuff in the first
             | place, to have primitive but well-working things? They're
             | not exactly famous for catering to professionals or people
             | who want a customized experience.
        
               | mvdtnz wrote:
               | No that is not "basically why you get Apple stuff in the
               | first place". I have never in my life seen either Apple
               | or its fan base market their products this way. That is a
               | post hoc rationalisation for their operating system
               | missing quite a basic feature.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | Really? "It just works" isn't something you've ever heard
               | from someone who uses Apple products? Or "I might not be
               | able to change X, but at least I know what's there works
               | well"?
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | But it doesn't work. It isn't present. There's basically
               | no window management.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | I mean, it is present. Just because it's not as advanced
               | as you'd like it to be, doesn't mean it's not there. You
               | can move windows, you can cycle between different active
               | windows, you can minimize windows and so on. That's
               | window management.
               | 
               | Yes, super basic, but so is most features of Apple
               | software. Simple, basic and without customization, just
               | like how many Apple users like their software.
        
               | mvdtnz wrote:
               | What does "It just works" have to do with "primitive"
               | (your word) things? Besides, when was the last time Apple
               | even used that turn of phrase?
        
               | philistine wrote:
               | > They're not exactly famous for catering to
               | professionals
               | 
               | If Mac OS wasn't famous for catering to professionals for
               | a full decade, there would not be any Apple Computers
               | inc. Of course the point still stands that Apple is
               | famous nowadays for its phones, but macOS is still seen
               | by many as the golden standard in window management. That
               | it achieves its reputation without window snapping is a
               | detail.
        
           | 2big2fail_47 wrote:
           | Can confirm Rectangle works really well and consumes close to
           | none ram or cpu. You can even disable it from the menu bar so
           | it feels very native
        
           | Obscurity4340 wrote:
           | Is it like Grid or whatever?
        
             | jamie_ca wrote:
             | It supports halves (horizontal/vertical), thirds
             | (vertical), quarters (vertical or 2x2), and sixths (3x2),
             | plus some variations (move to edge, "almost maximize",
             | bigger, smaller, etc). Also supports variations on those,
             | eg. "middle two quarters" or "right two thirds" if that's
             | your thing.
             | 
             | I have an ultrawide external display, and keyboard
             | shortcuts to quickly tile two or three windows at once is
             | where it's at, though it also supports dragging the window
             | to an edge for various snap effects.
        
           | rPlayer6554 wrote:
           | I work in an environment where they won't let me download any
           | applications like this!
        
             | ellisv wrote:
             | That, to me, seems like an employment problem.
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | Every time a new MacOS version is announced the 1Password staff
       | must be all sitting around praying Apple doesn't add any more
       | bells and whistles to Keychain.
        
         | Condition1952 wrote:
         | It's a matter of time that they get sherlocked
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | I think this is one reason why 1Password is pivoting to
         | enterprise.
        
         | ianlevesque wrote:
         | They started with a huge advantage and squandered it with a
         | buggy cloud subscription model and an electron downgrade. Their
         | fate is their own at this point.
        
         | hatuthecat wrote:
         | This was the release that got me to migrate from 1P to
         | Keychain. Keychain finally has enough features and the 1P's
         | browser extension has been finicky for me and the UX of 1P8's
         | desktop app feels like a considerable downgrade from 7.
        
           | felixfbecker wrote:
           | Can Keychain store anything that's not passwords yet? I like
           | using 1Passwords for all sorts of stuff like SSN, drivers
           | license, passport details, membership details, SSH keys etc
        
         | diebeforei485 wrote:
         | I believe Apple offered to acquire them but they chose to go
         | the VC money route instead, adding features for corporate
         | customers.
        
         | kylehotchkiss wrote:
         | In Safari, keychain and 1password certainly are fighting harder
         | for my attention than they have in the past. I want to use a
         | workflow where passkeys live in iCloud and normal login pairs
         | live in 1Password. 1Password's passkeys implementation is a
         | nice way to keep keychain from being the only player in the
         | game but I like how much faster they work stored inside of the
         | OS better.
        
       | jcoletti wrote:
       | X/Twitter running as a new "Web App" is pretty solid, and a huge
       | upgrade from the older, unmaintained Twitter macOS app.
       | Everything pretty much works as expected & feels native, though
       | not sure if Dock icon badge counts are supported.
        
       | royjacobs wrote:
       | Meanwhile Microsoft dropped their major Windows update today too,
       | enabling me to ungroup taskbar items. Put THAT in your Apple and
       | smoke it!
        
         | jccalhoun wrote:
         | I switched to the beta of Win11 just so I could start using
         | ungrouped taskbar items when I got tired of waiting for
         | explorerpatcher to be updated. It is still a bit janky but I'm
         | so glad it is there.
        
       | sod wrote:
       | An SDR content brightness slider for a non-apple HDR
       | monitor/projector would be nice. Anyone knows if Sonoma has
       | changes for this in stock?
       | 
       | Edit: Updated now and it seems like nothing changed :(. External
       | monitor still becomes dim for SDR content if I flick on HDR, and
       | no slider in sight to boost the intensity. There is a projector
       | setting as a color profile, but that only changes the contrast
       | and colors, but not the brightness.
        
       | outcoldman wrote:
       | Have been using macOS Sonoma since DB1, this is probably the most
       | favorite update of the OS that I had in a while:
       | 
       | 1. Safari Profiles. I used this browser as my primary browser for
       | a long time, but had to use another browser (Chrome) for work, to
       | be able to separate sessions, etc. Since DB1 I use only Safari.
       | And it works great.
       | 
       | 2. Widgets. I have two monitors, and love that in one of them I
       | can see widgets with some useful information. Just wish more apps
       | were ready with widgets.
       | 
       | And a quick self-promotion. I am developer of the application
       | OpenIn, and for macOS Sonoma I have added support for Safari
       | Profiles https://loshadki.app/blog/2023-08-23-openin-4-1-beta/,
       | this is the only (as far as I know) app that will let you
       | redirect links to a specific Safari Profile based on various
       | configurations you make.
        
         | AiTricky wrote:
         | I am pretty happy with how my M1 mac performs on Monterey.
         | Would you share your opinion/guess on if I will feel a
         | difference going from Monterey to Sonoma? I will go look
         | through the details later. However, you are in the trenches so
         | perhaps you have thoughts?
        
           | outcoldman wrote:
           | To be honest I am always on the latest versions of the OS.
           | One of the reasons because I have a lot of pet projects built
           | mostly with SwiftUI. And each release adds some nice new
           | features. And unfortunately to use those new features you
           | have to use latest versions of macOS/iOS.
           | 
           | Ventura overall did not really had any OS features that would
           | force me to upgrade. Just a little more annoying like new
           | Settings app, that was unusable so many times. Freeform I
           | have never used, Weather app is nice, but there were always
           | alternatives.
           | 
           | Sonoma gave really good upgrade for me, those two features
           | like Safari Profiles and Widgets.
           | 
           | With two OS versions upgrade what you will like/hate:
           | 
           | - new Settings application. You get used to it. But would
           | take a while to be able to find things.
           | 
           | + new dynamic wallpapers. This will be mostly for people who
           | use external monitors/always connected monitors.
           | 
           | + Notes/Reminders - if you use it a lot, you can use tags and
           | links between notes.
           | 
           | + If you use Docker and similar software, Virtualization
           | framework is getting a lot of upgrades, so you might see them
           | to work better.
           | 
           | + Safari Profiles and Tab Groups. If you are Safari user.
           | 
           | + Widgets might be good only on monitors, you probably would
           | not see them on laptop screen.
        
             | outcoldman wrote:
             | Ah yes, and the webapps is a nice feature as well in macOS
             | Sonoma. There were some other apps trying to do the same,
             | but I just like when it is built-in feature.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | I love the included high quality wallpapers. Apple's spent a lot
       | of money filming these around the world and they serve as a nice
       | blend of vibrant but without being so high contrast I can't see
       | my icons.
        
       | lxgr wrote:
       | > The implementations of the exfat and msdos file systems on
       | macOS have changed; these file systems are now provided by
       | services running in user-space instead of by kernel extensions.
       | 
       | This sounds interesting!
       | 
       | I really wish there was a native FUSE alternative on macOS; just
       | recently I found myself in a pickle due to not being able to
       | mount an ext4 boot volume on an SD card on my Mac at all.
       | (Passing through to a VM works only via USB.)
        
         | Someone wrote:
         | > I really wish there was a native FUSE alternative on macOS
         | 
         | Isn't that what DriverKit can be used for?
         | 
         | https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/secd0a47c14c:
         | 
         |  _"DriverKit is the framework that allows developers to create
         | device drivers that the user installs on their Mac. Drivers
         | built with DriverKit run in user space, rather than as kernel
         | extensions, for improved system security and stability. This
         | makes for easier installation and increases the stability and
         | security of macOS"_
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | It seems like the only two types of drivers are generic USB
           | device drivers and HID input drivers, though.
           | 
           | There needs to be some OS-side FUSE-like kernel interface for
           | userspace drivers like this to be able to actually mount them
           | in the VFS.
        
             | glasshug wrote:
             | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/fileprovider
             | perhaps?
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | File Providers are useful in some scenarios, but they are
               | also not really a FUSE equivalent.
               | 
               | They're more geared towards Dropbox-like synchronizing
               | use cases. Some developers have made it work for SSHFS
               | too, but even that's already a bit of a stretch; for more
               | custom solutions it definitely falls short:
               | https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/681325
               | 
               | The only option currently seems to be to implement a
               | network file server such as SMB (which is what Google
               | Drive used to do before File Providers existed!) or NFS,
               | for which there even is a FUSE bridge available:
               | https://github.com/macos-fuse-t/fuse-t
        
               | nose-wuzzy-pad wrote:
               | It's unfortunate that fuse-t follows the same closed
               | source model as MacFUSE did. It's really holding things
               | back.
               | 
               | I was hopeful that Ganesha NFS [1] would suffice as a
               | bridge for the various FUSE filesystems I need to use
               | with macOS, but alas, they have abandoned the FUSE
               | interface and moved to FSAL/FSAL_VFS [2].
               | 
               | It would be really nice to have a clear path to building
               | a copy of Ganesha NFS that supported a whole host of the
               | great FUSE filesystems out there built to this API.
               | 
               | [1] https://github.com/nfs-ganesha/nfs-ganesha [2]
               | https://github.com/nfs-ganesha/nfs-ganesha/issues/759
        
               | ianlevesque wrote:
               | I honestly worry Apple will remember NFS exists at some
               | point and delete that too. File Providers is so limiting.
        
             | bnastic wrote:
             | Don't know if it counts, but RME Audio are now providing
             | drivers for their pro audio gear via DriverKit instead of
             | the ole kext. Installed yesterday, works just fine (modulo
             | checking forums if any widespread issues)
        
         | jurgenkesker wrote:
         | I reluctantly did buy Extfs from Paragon for this. It's too
         | expensive I think, but there are just no free opensource
         | solutions.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Doesn't that require breaking glass in Secure Boot these
           | days, just like macFUSE?
           | 
           | I'm not really willing to install a third-party kernel
           | extension just for a custom file system I need once every few
           | months anymore, especially given that Apple's native exFAT
           | drivers now apparently run in the userspace.
           | 
           | They should just make that capability available to the
           | actual-userspace!
        
             | ghusto wrote:
             | > Doesn't that require breaking glass in Secure Boot these
             | days
             | 
             | You mean turning off system integrity protection? No. I
             | have both ext4 and NTFS from Paragon, and didn't have to do
             | that.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Not SIP, but you do need to reboot and change some things
               | in recoveryOS involving Secure Boot (or however Apple's
               | equivalent is called), right?
               | 
               | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-
               | silicon/inst...
        
         | tambourine_man wrote:
         | This and a container story are glaring holes in macOS.
         | 
         | Instead we get widgets on the desktop like it's 2005 again.
        
           | selimnairb wrote:
           | I always get downvoted for this for Craig Ferengi is a pretty
           | boy and has to go.
        
           | tlhunter wrote:
           | Good ol' Windows Vista
        
             | tambourine_man wrote:
             | We were doing similar things on the Mac back then by
             | editing plist files :)
        
         | auggierose wrote:
         | I wish they did something so deleting files from the bin
         | wouldn't take millenia on my iMac Pro. Yes, it's an old
         | computer, but shouldn't that be a solved problem?
        
           | pvg wrote:
           | Not a real fix but doing it from the command line is usually
           | strikingly faster.
        
             | krackers wrote:
             | I think it's because for some reason they go through an
             | first enumerate the files so they can later show you the
             | progress. But the time spent to enumerate the files is time
             | that could have been spent deleting?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-09-26 23:01 UTC)