[HN Gopher] Why don't Americans eat mutton?
___________________________________________________________________
Why don't Americans eat mutton?
Author : elorant
Score : 50 points
Date : 2023-09-26 16:59 UTC (6 hours ago)
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(TXT) w3m dump (modernfarmer.com)
| Animats wrote:
| The mutton industry needs influencers, then. Or maybe a name
| change. In 1959, a packing company in Auckland came up with the
| name "kiwi fruit" for Chinese gooseberry.[1] That turned the
| market around.
|
| It's also hard to get rabbit in the US.
|
| [1] https://teara.govt.nz/en/kiwifruit/page-2
| tssva wrote:
| Several of the grocery stores in my area carry rabbit in their
| specialty meat section. If you can't source it locally, there
| are a good number of suppliers from which you can order it
| online.
| Animats wrote:
| Yes, you can get rabbit, but it's not mainstream. Nobody
| offers bunny burgers.
| mikeg8 wrote:
| Probably because rabbit doesn't have enough fat to actually
| make a decent burger. It's not economical to ground.
| irrational wrote:
| Not if you are a coyote. The other day I went out to my kids
| treehouse and found a fresh rabbit head with nothing else just
| lying on the bench at the top of the stairs. I have to assume a
| coyote decided that was the right place to eat a meal.
| pphysch wrote:
| Interesting re: kiwi fruit.
|
| I agree too, we are one marketing campaign and health fad away
| from mainstreaming something like mutton or rabbit.
| bananapub wrote:
| Lamb doesn't even seem very common in the US from my limited
| experience, certainly much less common than in Australia or even
| the UK.
| irrational wrote:
| I've never seen it sold at the grocery store. This might be a
| chicken and egg thing. The grocery stores don't stock it because
| people don't buy it, but people don't buy it because the grocery
| stores don't stock it.
|
| I would also imagine the cost would be quite high. I almost never
| see sheep farms around, but I see cattle and chickens and pigs
| everywhere. They would probably have to import it from another
| country.
| dunham wrote:
| My ordinary grocery store has it (Kroger affiliate in the US
| near Seattle). I'm usually buying stew meat for saag or ground
| for keema or kofta, but I've cooked shanks and rack before. (I
| also get it from the farmer's market.)
|
| If you want it, a normal grocery store near a university might
| be a good bet. They tend to have more diverse foods, because of
| their customer base. Otherwise look for a halal or kosher
| butcher, I think they carry stuff like lamb and goat and there
| probably is one somewhere in most cities.
|
| Now Squab has been hard to find since I moved here from San
| Francisco. Uwajimaya did have it frozen last time I went, but
| I've never seen fresh squab here.
| zxexz wrote:
| I wish I could find mutton easier! I've always loved "Gamey"
| meats. I've mostly only found mutton at Halal butchers, and only
| some times. Rarely at extremely "high-end", bougie butchers, and
| very expensive.
| conductr wrote:
| I (American) think the gamey taste is exactly what most
| American's do not like at this point. Any time lamb, elk,
| bison, etc. are an option (usually at a restaurant), people
| voice complaints about gaminess and order beef (in my
| experience/social groups). It doesn't explain why it wasn't
| part of our food options we grew up with as this article is
| trying to explain, but I think it's why it's a hard sell today.
|
| I will get lamb occasionally at a restaurant and about half the
| time it's too gamey for me (and I then regret my ordering
| decision). We also don't eat a ton of curry dishes where the
| seasoning and spices can maybe mask or enhance that flavor (I
| don't know what it does but assuming more flavors results in
| less noticeable gaminess).
|
| It seems that it's difficult to introduce new meat sources to
| the market. Bison has been trying hard the past 10-20 years and
| it's a really good beef-like meat for burgers/steaks but still
| quite rare to see at a restaurant much less a grocery store.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Yes, Americans are very accustomed to the taste of grain or
| corn fed beef as that's what you get in supermarkets and
| restaurants.
|
| If you are used to that and then try a steak from a strictly
| pasture (grass) fed cow, it will have a distinctly different
| flavor.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| There is still a big difference from grass fed beef and
| bison and the leaner meats like elk and venison have a much
| different flavor and they seem more difficult for me to
| cook right. I love venison, for example, but I don't always
| nail it. And it usually helps to spice it or sauce it.
| chrisco255 wrote:
| I think bison has become a lot easier to find recently in
| grocery stores, especially the higher end ones. I enjoy the
| flavor and I would like to see more pastureland in the U.S.
| return to bison ranching.
| a2tech wrote:
| Move to Michigan! Our large Middle Eastern and African
| population ensures you'll always be able to get it from any
| stand alone butcher and very often at your normal grocery
| store.
| ilamont wrote:
| In Boston area supermarkets I see limited displays of lamb chops
| and other cuts of lamb regularly priced around the same as lower-
| mid cuts of beef, roughly $8-$10 per pound, sometimes less on
| sale. Legs are usually imported from New Zealand, which
| considering it's halfway around the world the price is quite
| impressive. We usually make stew or curry. My dad roasts it. I
| have a feeling a lot of local non-immigrants don't know how to
| cook lamb, let alone goat or mutton.
|
| Goat shows up at some of the Caribbean and South Asian markets
| and take-out places.
|
| I don't recall ever seeing mutton at any local market or menu.
| This 2016 forum thread advises asking some specialist halal or
| Armenian butchers: https://www.hungryonion.org/t/places-to-buy-
| mutton-in-boston...
| ryzvonusef wrote:
| Adam Ragusea did a video on this exact topic:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77IoP9r4hOI
|
| one of the interesting points he mentioned was the presence of
| "skatole" as one of the determinants of the sheepy taste.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skatole
|
| yeah...
| tptacek wrote:
| This is a Harold McGee thing, originally, and skatole is a
| determinant of the gamey or barnyardy flavor of lamb as well;
| further, it's probably more prevalent/dominant in higher-end
| heritage lamb than in factory lamb.
| Aaronstotle wrote:
| I would love to find Mutton at a supermarket. I only see Lamb,
| which tastes good however I choose not to eat for ethical reason
| (much like Veal).
| whoitwas wrote:
| I'm not sure how similar it is, but it's usually pretty easy to
| find goat at Halal butchers.
| smabie wrote:
| It's pretty obvious why we don't eat goat tho: it tastes really
| bad.
| ah27182 wrote:
| I heard this sentiment from co-workers and friends who didnt
| grow up eating goat. I think it boils down to two different
| things:
|
| 1. "meat musk" (lack of a better word, lol): People dont
| realize how pungent beef can be, its just that most Americans
| are accustomed to it. You can really smell this with grass-
| fed beef. I think goat/lamb meat is "musky" for the same
| reasons, as they eat mainly from foraging/hay.
|
| 2. preparation/cooking: If you plan on cooking goat like a
| steak, its not a gonna taste good. Generally, most dishes
| require that the goat is simmered or slow-cooked to make the
| meat more tender. Spices also make a big difference here with
| the dish.
| andybak wrote:
| Why do you say this? I've eaten it and enjoyed it and it's
| commonly eaten in many places.
| [deleted]
| andybak wrote:
| In the UK, lamb is pretty much an everyday meat (well - every
| week...) but goat is regarded as pretty exotic - common mainly
| in Afro-caribbean takeaways or restaurants. (I'm from the
| South-East so this might not be true in other regions).
|
| Mutton - I don't recall seeing very often at all in butcher
| shops. As the meat in takeway - it's more common but sometimes
| the terminology isn't precise. Some Indian takeaways use the
| word "meat" when they mean something sheep-based. And "mutton"
| sometimes means "goat" (and vice-versa). And "mutton" sometimes
| is just lamb...
| madengr wrote:
| [dead]
| glonq wrote:
| In places where mutton is consumed, I'm curious: is there a
| distinction between "sheep raised for mutton" and "sheep raised
| for wool", or is it always both? Do all wool sheep eventually
| become mutton?
| zombielinux wrote:
| There is actually a distinction.
|
| I raise hair sheep (Katahdin/Barbados crosses) , which produce
| no useful (that I've seen) wool. But are fantastic in terms of
| meat.
|
| I'm starting to see a market for them in the specialty realm
| (beyond halal/kosher/immigrant markets)
|
| I'm thinking I'll need to eventually set up something like
| this: https://www.deepsouthventures.com/i-sell-onions-on-the-
| inter...
| Darmody wrote:
| Those who raise sheep for the wool usually raise expensive ones
| with pedigree like the merino breed in Spain.
| pavon wrote:
| I was under the impression that lamb was from young sheep
| raised explicitly for meat, while mutton was from old sheep
| after their wool career was over, but I can't say I've
| investigated it deeply.
| elorant wrote:
| In Greece where we regularly consume sheep it's mostly both,
| mainly because we don't have specialized breeds for wool. They
| do exist, but they're rare.
| thefifthsetpin wrote:
| I can't speak to sheep specifically, but we use different
| species of goats and cattle and chickens when raised for meat
| vs for dairy or eggs.
|
| Still, dairy cows do eventually become beef. If you ever see a
| cut of beef that's normally bone-in but the butcher chose to
| debone this one, then there's a good chance it was from a dairy
| cow whose bones were too calcified to saw through.
| johnea wrote:
| Why does ANYONE eat mutton?
|
| The 1st world diet really does reflect the primitive primate
| species we are...
| shrimp_emoji wrote:
| Do gyros count? It's lamb meat. It's one of the best-tasting
| meats ever, imo.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| No.
| kyllo wrote:
| The Costco near my house sells a large box of frozen mutton
| cubes, which is the only mutton product I've ever seen at a store
| in America, and I believe it's mostly purchased by South Asian
| and Middle Eastern immigrant customers.
| stickfigure wrote:
| What city? The Costcos I've visited in the SF Bay Area usually
| carry lamb rack and lamb chops (both of which are delicious!),
| but I've never seen mutton. I'd love to find it.
| esotericimpl wrote:
| [dead]
| sharadov wrote:
| Grew up eating goat meat in India, but can't handle sheep - it
| has a strong flavor which I can't handle.
|
| Even goat needs spices to make it palatable and flavorful - hence
| it's a big part of Middle-eastern, Carribean and Indian cuisines
| which use a lot of spices.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Mutton/lamb is the most delicious of all non-fish meats.
|
| I don't particularly love beef/chicken/pork but a sunday lamb
| roast with crispy potatoes and gravy - yum.
|
| BUT - cooking lamb well is an art and takes alot of practice. You
| can't just go cook lamb any old way and think it will be
| delicious. If you want to learn how to cook lamb well then focus
| on slow cooking and slow roasting - and anticipate you won't
| really knock people out with it until you've practiced enough.
| Jamie Oliver has the best lamb roast recipes.
|
| Lamb leg is extremely cheap at the moment in Australia - $10/KG -
| so I am practicing my lamb leg roasting skills.
| someotherperson wrote:
| These views are strange to me. You can most definitely cook it
| any old way. It's not as if the Middle Eastern restaurants or
| kebab joints are slow roasting the stuff. You can pressure cook
| it for certain meals (i.e lamb shanks) but it's not that
| necessary. Lamb chops can also be cooked much in the same way
| as beef steaks.
|
| The most tender part is the backstrap (its marbled like wagyu)
| and incredibly easy to prepare and skewer. This is followed by
| the legs. You can even go one step further and skewer more fat
| inbetween.
|
| Otherwise, pan frying it with basic seasoning is fine.
|
| I grew up on it, and have probably cooked it about ~150 times
| for other people. It's always been a hit and I'm not exactly a
| chef -\\_(tsu)_/-
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| >> Otherwise, pan frying it with basic seasoning is fine.
|
| No, make it into a pilaf. In a ceramic oven vessel. If you're
| from the Middle East, or anywhere around the Mediterranean,
| that's what your heart yearns for, and your heart knows best.
|
| Also, saturated fats but that's not why I brought up your
| heart :P
| mjn wrote:
| Roasted on a spit is the most beloved way of cooking lamb
| to me as a Greek. But slow-cooked in a ceramic vessel with
| orzo (youvetsi) is indeed a close second, and often more
| practical.
| nraf wrote:
| Been getting shoulder on sale for under $7 a kg at Saccas in
| Melbourne
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > You can't just go cook lamb any old way
|
| lamb is very popular in Italy and there are no "no old ways" to
| cook it.
|
| Not a fan of it, but it's probably one of the most untouched
| traditional food you can find here.
| stickfigure wrote:
| For leg, shank, or shoulder chop I would agree with you - a
| slow roast or braise is the right way to go. But the rack is
| incredibly tender and easy to cook. Throw some salt, pepper,
| garlic, and Italian seasoning on it and put it in the oven at
| 375F, it's perfect in about 25 mins. No cooking skills
| necessary.
|
| At my local Costco, imported Aussie lamb racks are usually
| about $15/lb.
| deaddodo wrote:
| I was going to say, Americans don't generally eat mutton but
| lamb isn't terribly uncommon. Lamb is already difficult to get
| right, which is why many go out to get it (Indian and Middle
| Eastern, most commonly); mutton is even more difficult, so
| people don't even bother either way.
|
| In addition, goat isn't often eaten in Europe (outside of the
| Mediterranean, Italy primarily) and other affluent nations, but
| is fairly common (at least in the Southwest and New York+DC)
| via Latin American, Middle Eastern and African cuisine
| infusion.
| jahnu wrote:
| I love lamb too but my love for it is heavily tempered by its
| extreme environmental impact :(
| floren wrote:
| I did a boneless leg roast on Friday and it came out very
| tender. I spread softened butter with herbs all over the top,
| then put it in at 425F for 15 minutes, followed by a couple
| hours at 350F until it was ~140F in the center. Juicy, tender,
| and nicely pink inside. The leftovers made a couple great
| sandwiches and finally ended up as a stir fry last night.
|
| Americans do ourselves a huge disservice by ignoring lamb (and
| mutton, and goat, and wild game, and...)
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| Well if you want to cook mutton right then don't just roast it
| with potatoes in the oven. Make a nice pilaf with it, with a
| whole head of garlic in the center like they do in Uzbekistan:
|
| https://youtu.be/tkCeL6Md0fg?si=q86eBrLRbJBJU4yi
|
| Or stuff the leg with rice, as they do on the Greek island of
| Imvros:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFVLLIZsh8A&list=PLsmrGn_1E1...
|
| (the meat in the video is goat, not mutton, but it's the same
| recipe).
|
| Or, my favourite (and a recipe handed down by my grandfather,
| though it skipped a generation): Gioulbasi, a whole leg of
| mutton wrapped in wax paper, with vegetables and melty cheese,
| and roasted slow and sweet:
|
| https://youtu.be/OZjAiqC3ws0?si=93pwB2DZDNBtgNyF&t=6
|
| Though these days I prefer to be all posh and use a French oven
| to slow-roast mutton (and lamb, and goat).
| walthamstow wrote:
| I make an absolutely tidy mutton saag with mature spinach leaf
| and lots of cardamom and mustard. Make sure you get a really good
| colour on the mutton before you stew it.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| I love curry but can't help feeling that meat as delicious as
| good lamb or fish is wasted in the strong flavor of the curry -
| better to have a vegetarian curry and enjoy the curry flavors
| on their own, cook the lamb separately.
|
| Well cooked lamb is so delicious it - in my opinion should be
| eaten only with gravy or a tiny dab of mustard or tiny dab of
| mint sauce.
| masfuerte wrote:
| I make curry out of lamb neck chops with the bones in. It's
| delicious and what else are you going to do with them?
| nmcfarl wrote:
| In addition to curries I make a New Mexican style posole
| stew with my necks - it is also delicious.
| huytersd wrote:
| There's an assumption that ingredients taste good on their
| own in the west. Most Asian cuisine relies heavily on
| creating a fantastic spice mix that the meat provides a
| background flavor to. Texture also matters a lot. The
| background flavor is not interchangeable.
|
| For instance I love fish curries but can't stand regular
| roasted/steamed fish lightly flavored with salt, dill, butter
| etc.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| A lot of times mutton in Indian subcontinental recipes is
| synonymous with goat
| debacle wrote:
| Most of America's pasture and grazing land is too rich and flat
| for it to make sense to raise sheep, when cows are the
| alternative.
|
| You see sheep and goats in hilly, rugged areas of the US, but
| those are few and far between (and not generally economically
| viable).
| poulsbohemian wrote:
| I'm the cook in our household and for me the article doesn't
| quite capture my observations... maybe it's because of my
| location, but it isn't easy to find _lamb_ in my local grocery
| stores and it is at a super premium relative to other options.
| The lamb available is so flavorful that I can 't imagine
| something even stronger. Having checked with butcher shops,
| anything they can get that would be local (rather than from NZ or
| AUS) is even more expensive, and generally only ground or chops.
| So... I'm seeing a catch-22 here where it's not really available,
| therefore people don't eat it. And if the cost is x2+ of other
| choices, people are going to think carefully about their budget.
|
| Finally, it really is a unique flavor that even for all my
| culinary explorations, I see it as an occasional change-of-pace
| rather than a regular part of our menu. Great as doner / gyro,
| individual kebabs, in stews, but beyond that I continue to be at
| a loss of what to do with it.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| My family jas a wonderful recipe for lamb stew, and it has some
| strong flavors via tomatoes, garlic, onion, and lemon.
|
| I've never eaten mutton, but I'm wondering if its stronger
| flavor would be fine in that stew.
| poulsbohemian wrote:
| Yeah - sounds a lot like the various dishes across a range
| from the Mediterranean to the "-stans" that I've made with
| lamb. No reason I couldn't use mutton - if it were available.
| I've had some lamb that was absolutely overpowering, so
| having a hard time imaging something _more_ than that.
| gingerrr wrote:
| I've only eaten mutton in heavily spiced dishes and it does
| go very well in those settings - you need other strong
| flavors to stand up to the gaminess of the mutton, which
| might be why it hasn't caught on in American cuisine which
| tends to focus less on heavy spice profiles and more on just
| cooking ingredients to present their natural flavors.
| cryptonector wrote:
| Don't forget lamb shank.
|
| And yes, it's terribly expensive, all things lamb, and it makes
| no sense that it's so expensive.
| TylerE wrote:
| Of course it's expensive.
|
| You have to put a multi-year old sheep through a 6 month
| gestation period (and most will only go into heat during
| certain times of year), out of which you are likely to get
| only one or two lambs, each of which when slaughtered
| provides at best 10kg of marketable meat, if that.
|
| Compare with chickens (massive egg output, so you get infants
| practically continually, or cows which while they have many
| of the same drawbacks, are far more productive, hundreds of
| kilos of meat from one animal isn't unusual.
| a2tech wrote:
| Here in Michigan mutton is not overly difficult to get (lots of
| middle eastern and african immigrants) but it's a hard sell to
| anyone that didn't grow up eating it.
|
| Lamb (as you said) have a strong but not unpleasant flavor.
| Mutton takes that flavor dial and turns it way up.
| andybak wrote:
| In the UK, lamb is one of the "big 4". If you have a roast
| dinner it will be chicken, lamb, pork or beef (probably in that
| order of likelyhood). It's just another meat that you'd roast
| and slice and eat with gravy and veg.
|
| I probably know more people who dislike pork than dislike lamb.
| I don't think many people really regard it as an especially
| strong flavour.
| laurencerowe wrote:
| > I don't think many people really regard it as an especially
| strong flavour.
|
| For some reason the lamb available in the US is much more
| strongly flavoured than what I was used to in the UK, which
| was usually from UK/Aus/NZ.
| andybak wrote:
| Different cuts of lamb do differ in flavour. In fact I'm
| often disappointed when I order lamb and it's not... lamb-
| ey enough.
| hirundo wrote:
| I'm cooking a leg of lamb now from my local Safeway. It costs
| $7/lb, which is the same as chuck roast. But it's maybe 1/4
| more expensive due to that big leg bone (which my dog values
| highly). Still that feels like the price is comparable to beef,
| but a nice alternative flavor.
|
| I haven't seen mutton for sale at any grocery.
| poulsbohemian wrote:
| In my location, lamb is closer to $10/lb (at grocery stores -
| higher at butcher), while I can get (grass fed, super high
| quality) beef straight from the rancher at less than $4/lb.
| dorfsmay wrote:
| > anything they can get that would be local (rather than from
| NZ or AUS) is even more expensive
|
| This might be key. It might be that your juridiction has trade
| agreements with other countries and impose that local lamb has
| cannot be sold cheaper, and if that is the case it would
| explain why local products are more expensive and lamb/mutton
| not marketed at all. Talk to local producers to confirm. I
| don't know about today, but this used to be an issue for lamb
| manu markets.
| MisterBastahrd wrote:
| The same reason we eat tilapia, beef, and chicken from farms.
|
| Because they don't have a whole lot of gamey flavors. That, and
| lamb is seen as an upper class food in the US when it comes to
| home preparation.
| crazygringo wrote:
| Exactly, the same reason we don't eat goat either.
|
| Goat BBQ is absolutely delicious. But it is a _strong_ flavor
| that lingers for a _long_ time. It 's just not palatable for
| the average American consumer to eat on a regular basis.
|
| On the one hand I absolutely wish we had a wider variety of
| meats available. But on the other hand I totally understand why
| there isn't enough demand for it to be economically viable.
| tptacek wrote:
| Goat is pretty easy to find in Chicago, at birrierias and in
| the really good butcher shops. It braises well.
| zht wrote:
| yea but I wonder if folks would still care about "gameyness" if
| they ate it from birth
|
| one thing that you often notice moving from abroad is that the
| pork in North America (raw) smells and tastes like piss. but if
| you're used to it you just don't question it
| crazygringo wrote:
| I don't know where you're getting your pork from but no it
| doesn't...?
| DennisP wrote:
| I haven't noticed that but it's been quite a while since I
| cooked unprocessed raw pork. I wonder if the intense ammonia
| smell that builds up in pig factories had anything to do with
| the smell you experienced.
| badrabbit wrote:
| I think that sienfeld episode had a huge impact. That's where I
| first heard of mutton and I wouldn't try it now unless in dire
| situations.
| daft_pink wrote:
| We call it lamb. Sometimes we eat it.
|
| If you ask us if we eat Mutton, most of us will have no idea what
| you are talking about. Just sayin'
| karaterobot wrote:
| Mutton is defined as lamb with a few more candles on its
| birthday cake.
| thom wrote:
| I was raised vegetarian and married into Yorkshire, and I've
| tried to expand my palate over the years. Lamb is the one thing
| that just utterly defeats me. I can get through most roast
| dinners by slathering the meat in various sauces, and while I
| don't really see the attraction, I can survive family meals. But
| lamb is unlike any vegetarian food in that it just sticks around
| like bubblegum. I'm chewing and chewing and hoping it'll dissolve
| and it never goes anywhere, so you're left having to just force
| this stuff down against your gag reflex. Genuinely horrifying
| every time I've tried it. My wife claims slower cooked stuff like
| lamb shank is different but I'm completely off it at this point.
| freeopinion wrote:
| You represent a conundrum for me. I'd love to connect with
| somebody like you and try out dozens of different approaches.
| But, of course, that wouldn't be a very nice thing to do.
|
| There's always the promise that there are some handful of
| techniques that would produce results that you actually like.
| But how do you ask somebody to suffer through the misery of all
| the techniques that don't in the hope of finding the treasures?
| YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
| With apologies to your spouse, but if you wanted to find out
| why people enjoy any kind of food, Yorkshire cuisine is
| probably not your best option. For mutton (and lamb) I
| recommend trying out a Moroccan restaurant, or Lebanese maybe
| (and I don't mean a kebab shop!).
| triceratops wrote:
| > while I don't really see the attraction, I can survive family
| meals
|
| Curious: if you don't enjoy meat, why bother?
| stickfigure wrote:
| Meat tenderness varies by animal, cut, and prep method.
| Generally the 'working muscles' like legs tend to be the
| toughest and have the most connective tissue. However, in long-
| duration low-temp cooking methods the connective tissue breaks
| down and provides great flavor and mouth-feel.
|
| If you're in a hurry, the lamb rack is great. For pretty much
| any other cut, you want a minimum two hour cook. A pressure
| cooker helps but it's not magic. The main thing is that you
| can't just put it in for X minutes and call it done, no matter
| what the recipe says. Just keep cooking until you achieve fork-
| tenderness.
|
| If you struggle with the flavor of lamb, avoid the fat, which
| has most of the "lambyness". But then you might as well just
| eat something else.
| secondcoming wrote:
| neck of lamb is great in a stew. It's not fatty at all.
| ta3546435654 wrote:
| > My wife claims slower cooked stuff like lamb shank is
| different but I'm completely off it at this point.
|
| Oh missing out I reckon, slow cooked lamb shanks or slow oven
| roast with heaps of rosemary and garlic is divine, maybe a
| drizzle of red wine/stock.
|
| Personally I go with about 3 hours at 150 degs Celcius
| (depending on size) with foil covering the baking pan, and then
| it should fall off the bone when you look at it. Getting crispy
| spuds in there is a bit trickier, either a separate dish and
| drain some of the lamb fat in there, or take the foil off an
| hour or so before and get the spuds in there.
| ranting-moth wrote:
| For me personally it's the same reason for why I don't eat an old
| cow. It tastes disgusting.
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _same reason for why I don 't eat an old cow_
|
| There are Iberian preparations for older cattle that are
| absolutely delicious, FYI. They're premium priced, however, so
| I imagine there is care in what they're fed and how they live.
| downWidOutaFite wrote:
| How do you know if the beef you're eating is from an old or
| young cow?
| TuringNYC wrote:
| They are probably referring to Veal, which is the meat from a
| calf or young animal. Note there are a number of
| controversies the other way also, where people oppose eating
| young cow because of the practices surrounding raising veal.
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| Veal is male dairy calves.
| tptacek wrote:
| No, the beef you buy at Whole Foods or Safeway has
| generally been harvested from steers slaughtered at 1-2
| years old --- it's all young. Specialty purveyors will sell
| you beef from much older cows, which is less tender and has
| a much deeper flavor (there's also a high-end thing right
| now about eating beef from dairy cows).
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| You can taste it. Fast food ground meat has that signature
| old dairy cow flavor.
| kevinmchugh wrote:
| The distinctive flavor of fast food ground beef is because
| they freeze the beef. Try the fresh beef quarter pounder at
| McDonald's - it's good.
| tptacek wrote:
| This seems extremely unlikely, given the relatively small
| percentage of beef that comes from culled dairy cows, the
| absolutely vast amount of beef used as an input for fast
| food, and the named suppliers companies like McDonalds use.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I think they just mixed up their heuristic; fast food
| vendors always do the cheapest thing at scale, this is
| often sacrifices quality, but clearly the more economical
| thing to do is to kill and butcher the cattle ASAP. I
| mean why would they feed an adult cow for an extra year
| if they could avoid it?
| Detrytus wrote:
| The common practice is that you butcher bulls at young
| age, but you keep cows for milk - you actually make much
| more money on milk than on meat.
|
| With chickens it's even worse: males are killed
| immediately after hatching, because their meat is worth
| next to nothing. Females are kept for both eggs and meat.
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| What? Cow meat is about 25% of the ground beef supply,
| with half being dairy culls and the other half being beef
| cows that fail to get pregnant. It ends up at McDonald's,
| Taco Bell, and Beef hotdogs.
| tptacek wrote:
| The numbers I got were more like 9%.
|
| You can also go to specific chains and look up their
| sourcing; Wendys sources from "steers and heifers", but
| all much younger than the average dairy cow cull age.
|
| It's not that I have a high opinion of fast food beef. I
| just think it's unlikely that they could come close to
| meeting demand by sourcing from culled cows.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| since I just mentioned the _Master and Commander_ series
| yesterday:
|
| A very common dish on Capt. Aubrey's table was mutton chops.
|
| I love lamb, but interestingly, even that is too strongly
| flavored for a lot of Americans. Sad.
|
| There's a halal grocery near me, but I don't remember seeing
| mutton in their display case. Maybe you can ask for it.
| moron4hire wrote:
| [delayed]
| tptacek wrote:
| They eat a lot of it in Kentucky, where it's a barbecue staple.
| PQM does mutton BBQ sandwiches here in Chicago occasionally.
| HankB99 wrote:
| Thanks for the tip. I'll need to check that out.
|
| Unrelated humor: I searched "pqm bbq chicago" on duckduckgo.com
| and on the map, just west of PQM there's a marker for "Duck
| Duck Goat" :D
| tptacek wrote:
| The Chinese outpost of Stephanie Izard's Girl & The Goat
| empire.
| michaelsmanley wrote:
| I was about to post the same thing here. BBQ mutton from
| Moonlite in Owensboro, KY is one of my favorite foods, second
| only to their burgoo made with mutton. Long, long ago,
| Owensboro was a major wool production center and river port and
| there was often a surplus of sheep, so they ate mutton.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| never knew the word, looked up and my face squinched in disgust
| and absurdity
|
| am American
|
| so, how does it taste? whats the trick to preparing it. smother
| it in gravy?
| davidw wrote:
| In the western US there were some pretty violent confrontations
| between sheep and cattle ranchers, with the cattle folks
| seemingly coming out ahead in a lot of cases.
|
| For instance:
| https://www.oregonhistoryproject.org/articles/historical-rec...
| lvl102 wrote:
| If you're in NYC area (or visiting), go try mutton chops at
| Keens. It is one of the best I've had in the US. Of course,
| nothing beats Patagonian lamb on the spit. They just taste
| different down there.
| eatonphil wrote:
| I don't eat beef much anymore and lamb chops are my indulgence.
| I had no reason to go to Keens before but now I do! Thanks!
| gav wrote:
| If you visit NYC, the mutton chop at Keen's is well worth trying:
| https://ny.eater.com/2015/1/30/7948527/the-mutton-chop-at-ke...
| ramesh31 wrote:
| It's not so much taste, but texture. Americans like steaks and
| boneless skinless breastmeat. Lamb is not very amenable to that.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Lamb chops with mint jelly was a fairly regular dinner item
| when I was growing up (1970s). Seems like my mom might have
| prepared mutton occasionally but I don't specificially remember
| it.
| michael1999 wrote:
| Where would Americans raise mutton that isn't already crowded
| with people?
|
| They don't like cold winters, and can't tolerate high heat.
| Keeping them inside all winter with fodder is pretty expensive.
| irrational wrote:
| Crowded with people? I have to drive 3 hours north to get to
| another urban area, 6 hours to the east to get to another urban
| area, and 9 hours south to get to another urban area (there is
| nothing to the west). Everything in between the urban areas is
| mostly empty. Just forests and meadows and mountains and such.
| bengale wrote:
| I remember the first time I had mutton curry in the Middle East.
| I thought it was going to be gross, turns out it's delicious. It
| does seem a shame its not more common in the west.
| epx wrote:
| Preparation is probably a big factor. Some meat houses
| ('churrascarias') serve grilled mutton here but I can't stand
| the taste, it immediately remembers me of a smelly rain-soaked
| lamb. But I ate mutton in a dinner in England, decided to eat
| it quietly out of politeness to the host, but it didn't taste
| bad at all.
| 317070 wrote:
| I did not even notice it is not a thing in the US. It's
| definitely not all of "The West". In Europe (UK, France,
| Belgium), mutton is pretty common.
| ssl232 wrote:
| Actually, in the UK, mutton tends mainly to be eaten by
| members of Asian, Middle Eastern and Caribbean communities.
| It's not widely sold in supermarkets all over the country,
| unlike, say, lamb. And where it is sold in a supermarket it
| tends to be one product line where there might be several for
| more common types of meat like beef, pork and lamb.
| downWidOutaFite wrote:
| Is there really much difference between mutton and lamb
| meats?
| kbash9 wrote:
| Mutton is really goat. Lamb is just lamb meat. IMO, lamb
| is sometimes harder to cook because of the smell - you
| need the right spices to get rid of the smell. Easy to
| get mutton in most urban areas in the west - just look
| for a Halal meat shop.
| a2tech wrote:
| I've never seen 'mutton' be goat. Mutton is the name for
| the meat of adult sheep, lamb is the name of meat from
| the juvenile sheep. Goat is goat.
| ssl232 wrote:
| They meant "good", not "goat", I think.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| No, in the Indian subcontinent, it is usually taken refer
| to goat because sheep are pretty much scarce (Maharashtra
| and Kashmir being exceptions)
| andybak wrote:
| In the UK lamb is cooked mostly unspiced - maybe a touch
| of rosemary and garlic. Mint sauce is used as a
| condiment.
| a2tech wrote:
| Yes. Mutton is the meat of the adult sheep, lamb is the
| meat of a juvenile sheep. The flavor is different, but in
| a volume-ish way. If you think of the flavor of lamb as
| being a 4, the strength of the mutton flavor is like a
| 7-8. It's the same flavor, there's just way more of it.
| mc32 wrote:
| The supermarkets carry mutton yearround. I don't see much or
| any venison, but maybe that's because those who eat it hunt it
| themselves?
|
| It does require knowing how to prepare it in order to overcome
| the gamey flavor though. (Greek recipes are good and
| approachable)
| retrac wrote:
| I'm not sure about the USA but here in Canada there are legal
| restrictions on game. In Ontario, you can't sell meat from
| game. (You can't even give it away, technically, unless it
| was inspected and butchered by a licensed butcher.)
|
| So any venison in the store will have come from farm-raised
| deer. And deer are relatively difficult and expensive
| compared to chickens or cattle.
|
| I can find mutton and venison, and also horse meat, in
| upscale grocery stores here in Ontario. It's all terribly
| expensive, except lamb/mutton from NZ when it's in season.
| dfc wrote:
| You know an American supermarket that carries mutton?
| mc32 wrote:
| Whole foods (where mutton = sheep's flesh (in some places
| it may also mean goat's meat))
| genocidicbunny wrote:
| Lamb is also sheep's flesh, but it's not the same as
| mutton. Lamb is indeed very commonly available, though
| usually still in fairly limited selection, but I can't
| even remember the last time I saw actual mutton for sale.
| jart wrote:
| Venison originally meant the meat of a game animal, so in a
| sense it's technically impossible to sell in stores.
| leipert wrote:
| Why would it be impossible? You shoot the deer, you butcher
| it, you sell it in the store.
|
| Here in Germany we have ,,game season" and you can pre-
| order it at a lot of butcher shops or even certain
| supermarket chains. The orders are then basically fulfilled
| by local hunters and foresters, the meat is inspected like
| any other meat.
| jart wrote:
| Because you're not playing the game if you buy it in a
| store.
| floren wrote:
| In the US it's illegal to sell wild game meat, even
| between private individuals. It's part of the North
| American Model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ameri
| can_Model_of_Wildli...
|
| There are a few farms which raise venison, elk, etc. but
| I think due to chronic wasting disease and other issues
| they're rare... also your average American just isn't
| that eager to eat game (unless they're hunters).
|
| Note that "wild boars", being feral hogs, are usually
| exempt from the meat sale laws.
| philipkglass wrote:
| I see lamb all the time in large grocery stores, but not
| actual mutton from mature sheep. What chains carry mutton
| year-round?
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Game meat like venison isn't FDA approved and hard to ensure
| food safety: https://www.food-safety.com/articles/4688-game-
| meat-a-comple...
|
| I'd imagine there aren't a lot of suppliers or grocery stores
| carrying it because of the risk
| a2tech wrote:
| All of the nicer grocery stores in my area (Whole Foods,
| any of the better stocked small chain grocers, but not
| Kroger/Meijer) stock a wide variety of frozen 'game' meats.
| Rabbit, boar, venison, etc. Rarely fresh, but always
| available frozen.
|
| It's all raised specifically for meat though, none of the
| animals are wild harvested.
| natch wrote:
| Let's be clear, for some people it does in fact taste gross.
|
| For me it's not gross but the flavor is very intense, and gets
| old quickly. Each time I need a few years break before I can
| enjoy it again.
| Darmody wrote:
| That has a lot to do with they way it's cooked and how mature
| the animal was.
| natch wrote:
| I've eaten mutton in the US, in China, in India, in
| Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Iran, in Iraq, in Turkey, in
| Greece... I think your theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
| zem wrote:
| "mutton" in the middle east might well have been goat rather
| than sheep (common usage in indian english, and it's spread to
| bits of the middle east too)
| azemetre wrote:
| Never had mutton myself but other meats I like that are
| uncommon to find in US grocers are duck, quail, and goat. Duck
| has gotten easier to find I suppose, the whole foods near me
| will sell both whole and breasts. I don't remember this being
| the case 3 years ago.
|
| But finding goat is very hard. I don't tend to go to butchers
| since there are none near me within walking distance.
|
| When I lived in Florida I'd routinely eat at Caribbean or
| Dominican or other tropical cuisine restaurants that would all
| serve goat. Some of my favorite meals I've ever had were in
| those small hole-in-the-wall places.
| ah27182 wrote:
| Most Indian/Pakistani stores usually have goat meat
| available. Its commonly used in curries, pilafs, etc.
| stouset wrote:
| I honestly can't believe duck isn't more popular in the US.
| Yes, it's more expensive than chicken but part of that (I
| suspect) is its rarity. But unlike lamb (which I love) being
| something of an acquired taste, duck is unambiguously
| _delicious_.
|
| My only real guess is that both duck and lamb-to me-seem more
| sensitive in general to preparation. Beef, chicken, and pork
| are less enjoyable when they're not cooked well but they're
| still alright. Duck and lamb seem significantly less
| enjoyable when they're prepared badly.
| azemetre wrote:
| Duck is absolutely great, there's a Thai restaurant near me
| that makes a great tasting fried duck breast with a peanut
| sauce. Incredibly crispy, incredibly delicious. Highly
| underrated meat as you said.
| silisili wrote:
| I hate turkey so much that I banned it from our
| Thanksgiving. Yes I've had it deep fried, baked, smoked,
| you name it, still hate it.
|
| We switched to duck instead a few years back and it's
| positively wonderful. Anyone who eats with us admits it's
| way better than turkey.
|
| I have no idea why it's not more popular...
| chungy wrote:
| > Beef, chicken, and pork are less enjoyable when they're
| not cooked well but they're still alright.
|
| I get that you don't really mean "well" in the steak sense,
| but I still can't help but to think of how I love medium
| rare. I will tolerate rare and up to medium well (to a
| point), but actual well is a hard no.
| TheAdamist wrote:
| My local costco sells large boxes of frozen cubed goat meat,
| and maybe entire goats. (Theres occasionally something large
| wrapped in burlap next to where the goat cubes are stored in
| the freezer).
|
| I don't have a need for a 15 pound box much less whole
| animal, so haven't bought it. Will get a duck from them later
| this fall though.
| azemetre wrote:
| hmm I'll have to try my Costco then. I don't mind driving
| to shop but Costco sells way to much for a single dude to
| finish in a reasonable time :D
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