[HN Gopher] There's a new map style on OpenStreetMap.org
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       There's a new map style on OpenStreetMap.org
        
       Author : gslin
       Score  : 409 points
       Date   : 2023-09-24 19:51 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.osm.town)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.osm.town)
        
       | shrx wrote:
       | For some reason, the Tracestrack Topo layer doesn't load for me
       | in firefox.
        
         | kiwijamo wrote:
         | Loads for me Firefox/Windows.
        
           | gerdesj wrote:
           | .. and me FF/Linux.
           | 
           | Parent might like to examine their extensions/network/life
           | choices. I block a shit load of stuff and bizarrely a mapping
           | system used and generated by millions of people just seems to
           | work.
           | 
           | This didn't look very pretty but I still got the menus 8)
           | $ links "https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/50.93675/-2.63
           | 421&layers=P"
        
         | nani8ot wrote:
         | Works on Firefox Android with uBO enabled.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | Works in Firefox on Linux with uBO, Decentraleyes, Privacy
           | Badger, from a German IP address if that makes a
           | difference...
           | 
           | (Tacking more onto uBO reminds me of the dutch/german game
           | where you start by saying "I go on holiday and bring... a
           | book", then the next person has to repeat and tack on one
           | item, and so on, until someone forgets an item. I couldn't
           | quickly find if this exists in english.)
        
             | nani8ot wrote:
             | The game seems to exist in many countries/languages.
             | 
             | The reason I was including the extension was because these
             | problems people have with websites usually com down to the
             | extensions they use. At least I don't remember a site not
             | working after opening it in private browsing or if that
             | doesn't help a seperate browser with a different engine.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | Yeah I understand why it was included, that's also why I
               | added mine :). Sorry if that came across as making fun of
               | your reply!
        
         | rstarast wrote:
         | Same here, I get 403s from tile.tracestrack.com
         | 
         | Edit: I think it's due to referrer filtering. I can load the
         | tiles fine if I pass 'Referer: https://www.openstreetmap.org',
         | but Firefox sends 'Referer: tile.tracestrack.com'. Presumably
         | that's a measure to preserve privacy, possibly due to some
         | extension (though I've disabled various adblock, tracking
         | protection things...)
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | What do you use to suppress the referer header?
           | 
           | For my job, I needed to know whether to dissuade a customer
           | from using the referrer for CSRF protection. I looked for
           | stats on how many people filter this but could find nothing
           | at all. You're the first person I hear runs this in practice,
           | so maybe I can find usage stats on the software you use.
           | Secondarily, I'd be curious how often you run into trouble!
        
             | seabass-labrax wrote:
             | I block referrer headers on Firefox 102.15.1esr; although I
             | use uBlock Origin, for the headers I just set
             | 'network.http.sendRefererHeader' in about:config. There are
             | very few occasions when things don't work. Perhaps once in
             | a week's worth of browsing the Web I'll come across a
             | Cloudflare site that doesn't like me, and these new
             | OpenStreetMap tiles worked yesterday but don't today.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | bmicraft wrote:
             | It's a feature of uMatrix that's enabled by default
        
           | matchamatcha wrote:
           | Thanks, changing that setting in uMatrix worked for me.
        
         | mqus wrote:
         | Same for me, Firefox on Linux. Getting 403's
        
           | gerdesj wrote:
           | It does work for me FF/Linux.
           | 
           | Does this work?                   https://www.openstreetmap.o
           | rg/#map=15/50.9349/-2.6296&layers=P
           | 
           | You should end up with a view of a small town in South
           | Somerset, UK.
        
             | mqus wrote:
             | Nope, grey Screen. But like another one commented, I also
             | have the same referrer. I also saw that I somewhat locked
             | down 3rd-party cookies and the tile request doesn't have
             | any cookies. This might be another reason (I haven't
             | checked if there should be a cookie there though)
        
               | gerdesj wrote:
               | I use Privacy Badger and uBlock Origin in the browser and
               | pfBlocker-ng at the router - that is similar to PiHole.
               | 
               | You mention "I also have the same referrer" - I'm not too
               | sure what that means.
               | 
               | It sounds like you might want to go easy on the funky
               | stuff. Cookies are not totally evil!
        
               | mqus wrote:
               | Looks like bmicraft might have the answer:
               | 
               | > It's a feature of uMatrix that's enabled by default
               | 
               | And I don't think uMatrix is all that funky. It works on
               | all other sites, after all(rarely I have to allow-all,
               | but that seemingly does not include the Referer: header)
        
       | DavidKarlas wrote:
       | I just wish it displayed buildings at zoom 16(today at 17, while
       | default OSM renderer at 15). And similar for addresses displayed
       | currently at 19, I wish it was at 18, while OSM default renderer
       | displays at 17.
        
       | eternityforest wrote:
       | Doesn't seem to have a license in the attribution overlay. Is
       | this not CC-BY-SA like the rest? Is it served by Tracestack? Can
       | you use it in very small FOSS apps without API keys?
       | 
       | It looks really nice visually though.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | stinos wrote:
       | Have been using https://opentopomap.org for this for a while, and
       | depending on what you're looking for it still has some
       | advantages: does show the numbers on all height lines (osm only
       | does the 50m one in my area for some reason, leaving you to guess
       | whether the next one is 40m or 60m since that is not always
       | obvious - seems like a key thing for a topographic map), does
       | show the house numbers.
        
       | hilbert42 wrote:
       | To anyone at Mastodon reading this, I cannot read this article
       | without turning JavaScript on! Yes, I've read your message to
       | that effect many times.
       | 
       | I can turn on JavaScript but I won't, especially for you Mastodon
       | --because you portray yourselves as an alternative to those
       | services such as Google, Facebook, MS, etc. that use JS for
       | nefarious purposes.
       | 
       | If you were truly acting as an alternative and acting in good
       | faith then you wouldn't enforce the large and slow overhead of
       | JavaScript onto users without also offering a JS-free option.
       | Moreover, JS is also a security liability which makes your action
       | even worse.
       | 
       | Sure, offer JavaScript to those who prefer to use it, and to
       | those who don't know how to turn it off, but to enforce its use
       | is really a form of discrimination--discrimination against those
       | of us who've been arguing for an alternative to Big Tech for
       | years.
       | 
       | The web's been rendered an utter mess because of JavaScript--not
       | because of the language per se--but because of those who've its
       | power to abuse and abuse and disadvantage web users for their own
       | ends--we've now reached the point where many of us find the web
       | almost unusable.
       | 
       | Mastodon, you've let the side that's fighting for a better web
       | down.
       | 
       | Shame on you!
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | Nice. Here's a direct link to view San Francisco using Tracestack
       | Topo:
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/37.7846/-122.4304&laye...
        
       | lucb1e wrote:
       | View it on a 3D globe here: https://www.tracestrack.com/#features
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | savingsPossible wrote:
       | so, how does one use osm for turn by turn navigation on an
       | android phone?
       | 
       | I installed OSMand via f-droid and I did not find it very
       | readable
        
         | morbicer wrote:
         | OSMand is powerful but the UI can ve overwhelming. Organic maps
         | seem popular https://organicmaps.app/ but I prefer the style of
         | Mapy.cz
         | https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.seznam.mapy
        
       | shpx wrote:
       | Islands which are also states say the name of the island twice at
       | certain zoom levels.
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/54.2375/-4.6695&layers...
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/13.9394/-61.0785&layer...
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/16.7342/-62.1730&layer...
       | 
       | Topography and map don't match up for Fairway Rock
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/65.6235/-168.7505&laye...
       | 
       | Some islands are not named at any zoom level
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/49.629/-126.381&layers=...
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/63.273/-170.184&layers=...
       | 
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/71.253/-179.604&layers=...
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | > Islands which are also states say the name of the island
         | twice at certain zoom levels.
         | 
         | That seems correct and desirable? They're two distinct things
         | that happen to coincide. Just like a street with a name might
         | also be part (or the entirety) of a numbered route, and we'd
         | want the map to show both.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | lucideer wrote:
           | That seems correct in theory but it is inconsistent between
           | islands - I suspect it's to do with adminstrative levels
           | differing between different nations.
           | 
           | e.g. With the first example - Isle of Man - you won't see the
           | same happen with either Great Britain or Ireland, nor with
           | smaller adjacent islands. The labels font-sizes & zoom
           | behaviour are also very different between Northern Ireland
           | and Ireland - the UK having countries within a country and
           | adding an extra admin level in the hierarchy. Isle of Man
           | being a crown dependency could be a factor I guess, or
           | something similar.
           | 
           | Ultimately this seems fine to me though: representing areas
           | locally for each locality is by definition inconsistent.
        
             | Angostura wrote:
             | Great Britain isn't the national name. It is the United
             | Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | Great Britain is the name of the island - this comment is
               | about islands.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | hnben wrote:
         | can this issue be solved without introducing ambiguity?
        
           | hnben wrote:
           | I mean the first one
           | 
           | > Islands which are also states say the name of the island
           | twice at certain zoom levels.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | Are these new problems or pre-existing problems?
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | You can click the "layers" button on the side to see how it
           | looks in other layers. For the Isle of Man, other layers only
           | show the name once, or don't show it at all at that close of
           | a zoom level.
        
             | shpx wrote:
             | Actually the standard layer also says "Isle of Man" twice
             | at a certain zoom
             | 
             | https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/54.1624/-4.5071
        
       | aendruk wrote:
       | What's the explanation for the Martian look at z<=8?
       | 
       | e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=8/40/-111&layers=P
       | 
       | And it looks like this is a proprietary fork of Carto? Its
       | inclusion on the OSM website is essentially an advertisement?
        
         | pipe2devnull wrote:
         | If you zoom out all the way you can see color corresponds with
         | elevation. Reddish is highish elevation.
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | That's neat. It seems like it isn't available in OsmAnd though,
       | sadly.
        
         | lom wrote:
         | OsmAnd already has a way of showing elevation in the same
         | manner
        
         | bscphil wrote:
         | It's odd given that OsmAnd is the most feature complete OSM app
         | for Android that there are so few custom map styles for it. I
         | know the weird format it uses is a contributing factor (I think
         | everyone else uses Mapnik compatible styles). But I find all
         | the included themes really hideous and haven't found a good
         | alternative. There are really good raster styles for outdoor
         | use, so if anyone has advice on adapting an existing theme for
         | OsmAnd I'd be curious to hear about that.
        
         | thriftwy wrote:
         | OSM is basically a dataset. Everybody renders this dataset
         | differently unless they are sharing a renderer. Android apps
         | such as Maps.ME and OsmAnd do their own vector renders.
        
           | sva_ wrote:
           | I think it might be possible via the Online Maps feature by
           | adding an online source, but for that I'd need the url of the
           | source. For example, I can pick CyclOSM as the map tile
           | source both in OsmAnd and on openstreetmap.org.
        
             | thriftwy wrote:
             | That would defeat the purpose of having a vector map app.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | ...and add all the benefits of having online slippy maps,
               | yes, nice way of telling the full story
               | 
               | I enable this when I want to zoom to a random place in
               | the world without first downloading a 600MB map file,
               | want satellite imagery, or indeed want to view different
               | styles. I wish there was better integration, like being
               | able to also search worldwide with online services when
               | this view is enabled (but it's also not like I got time
               | to implement that myself so I can understand nobody else
               | has gotten around to yet, either).
        
         | matkoniecz wrote:
         | As far as I know there is no significant overlap between this
         | two: except that both use OpenStreetMap data as source.
        
       | MaximilianEmel wrote:
       | Crosswalks still look the same as sidewalks :(
        
         | Freak_NL wrote:
         | The layer seems closed source, or at least not developed out in
         | the open, so you can't easily file a bug I think.
        
       | KronisLV wrote:
       | This is really cool!
       | 
       | Though I find myself looking for a provider of geocoding and
       | navigation for a freelance project of mine.
       | 
       | I know that I could probably self-host OSRM and OpenMapTiles, but
       | the hardware requirements make using a cloud service feel easier.
       | 
       | At the same time I can't really decide between something like
       | Mapbox and MapTiler (or possibly even cheaper alternatives that I
       | don't know about), since a lot of the APIs feel a bit vendor
       | locked.
       | 
       | On the other hand, it's nice how many options there are, even
       | though the industry feels like it's moving towards vector tiles
       | which perform mich worse for me, albeit look better.
        
       | KirillPanov wrote:
       | To use the Mastodon web application, please enable JavaScript.
       | Alternatively, try one of the native apps for Mastodon for your
       | platform.
        
         | wizzwizz4 wrote:
         | Works for me. Are you using a web browser? While a webapp
         | client is provided for convenience, upon request, this is a
         | social media site, not a website; there _is_ no canonical HTML
         | representation, so don 't be surprised when you don't get one.
         | 
         | Try specifying                 Accept: application/ld+json;
         | profile="https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams"
         | 
         | in your request.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | I don't think that logic holds: Nitter can render an HTML
           | representation just fine. It's not because it's a "social
           | media site" that there cannot be an HTML+CSS representation.
           | 
           | Anyway I don't think disabling javascript wholesale is
           | workable these days, so complaining about that is not very
           | constructive (i.e. I sort of agree with you). Especially for
           | open source products, those people should feel free to
           | contribute or sponsor a non-JS version rather than
           | complaining to volunteers to do a ton of extra work for what
           | I suspect is literally no more than a few dozen people on the
           | globe (particularly with noncommercial software like mastodon
           | which isn't going to be annoying when JS is turned on).
           | 
           | I should start complaining that sites don't look nice with
           | CSS disabled :P (Sometimes I turn css off using an extension
           | to avoid the rules that make the text thin+gray on a grayish
           | background.)
        
             | progval wrote:
             | > those people should feel free to contribute or sponsor a
             | non-JS version
             | 
             | It will be rejected. Mastodon used to have a good HTML view
             | with progressive enhancement for logged-out users. But in
             | v4.0 they replaced it with the same React app as the
             | loggin-in users, to lower the maintenance cost.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | Oh, that's a bit disappointing, but yeah understandable
               | if you'd otherwise break the HTML view all the time and
               | you can't let the noscript crowd take care of that
               | independently :(
        
               | progval wrote:
               | They could have kept the HTML view as the only public
               | view. It would benefit everyone, as it was faster than
               | the react app. Instead they now have to keep backporting
               | security fixes to the 3.5.x branch for admins who don't
               | want to force the new view on their users. (Well, the
               | 3.5.x branch will stop getting security updates in three
               | months, we'll see how many admins will still refuse to
               | update to 4.x.x then.)
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | I love osm, but the raster generators are not well documented.
       | 
       | I want to just make my own raster map for a limited area and it's
       | not trivial to do.
       | 
       | So the data is open, but the software is either not free or too
       | hairy or poorly documented so you can pay them to use it.
       | 
       | It's still better than Google map.
        
         | arboles wrote:
         | Is this not good? (Genuine question if you tried it. I never
         | used it, I just had it bookmarked because the README looked
         | good.)
         | 
         | https://github.com/enzet/map-machine
        
       | RicoElectrico wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Broussebar wrote:
       | It looks beautiful especially the way altitude is displayed, on
       | large scale the colors look great and when zooming in you get
       | detailed shadows.
        
       | GauntletWizard wrote:
       | This looks nice, unlike Google's recent decision to completely
       | redo their colors to look like Apple's terrible, faded colors.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | These situations are not the same btw. Not sure if you know,
         | but this style was _added_ as an option in the layers menu. You
         | can use whatever style you like!
        
         | tornato7 wrote:
         | In my parents' car, the screen doesn't exactly have high
         | dynamic range, and for some reason Google Maps colors are white
         | on white, impossible to tell where the streets are looking at
         | the screen during the day.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | That's Google design these days. White on light white on
           | sightly darker white.
           | 
           | Apparently it's modern and people have thought about it. I
           | guess those people wear sunglasses all day.
        
           | navane wrote:
           | I keep telling this at my Google maps when I use it as satnav
           | in my car. I'm trying to count which right it is, but I don't
           | see the side streets as they are white with a light grey
           | border on off white. Infuriating. Give me my neon green,
           | purple and black.
        
         | aqfamnzc wrote:
         | The reason they use such light, poor contrast colors is that
         | the map is used as a _background_ for things like business ads,
         | the blue navigation line, etc. Yes in the process, it becomes
         | useless as an actual map for looking at.
        
       | holistio wrote:
       | Can somebody ELI5 what hierarchical place rendering in China is?
        
       | matheusmoreira wrote:
       | It looks awesome!
        
       | sydd wrote:
       | While I love OSM the layers are bad UX. Currently the main site (
       | https://www.openstreetmap.org ) displays 7 layers:
       | 
       | - Standard -- OK, lets say this the universal default. The name
       | is a quite non-descriptive, why not call it roads? Or driving?
       | 
       | - CyclOSM -- Why not call it cycle map? This is some internal
       | project name?
       | 
       | - Cycle map -- duplicate, why does it need 2?
       | 
       | - Transport map -- What kind of transport? Call it "Public
       | Transport".
       | 
       | - Tracestrack Topo -- no idea what this means.
       | 
       | - OVPNKarte -- again no idea. Looks like another public transport
       | map. Why does it need 2?
       | 
       | - Humanitarian -- Here I have really no idea. Is this for
       | disaster relief personnel, so it displays hospitals and such?
        
         | usrusr wrote:
         | OSM presentation configurations are a bit like Linux
         | distributions (only much, much smaller): yes, having more than
         | one causes a lot of seemingly avoidable mental load, but there
         | is little doubt that the design by committee implied by a
         | single version would be much worse.
        
         | PetitPrince wrote:
         | I agree the "what it is for" of each layer could be improved.
         | Digging up the wiki [1], there's (I'm aggregating the content
         | of "significance" and "uniqueness"table):
         | 
         | - Standard: "Attempts to do many things at once (Jack of all
         | trades, master of none)"
         | 
         | - CyclOSM: "Contour lines. Cycle map. World coverage"
         | 
         | - Cycle Map: "Contour lines. "Focuses on bicycle features,
         | shows bicycle routes"
         | 
         | - Transport Map: "Displays routes, and public transport. Roads
         | are not most prominent feature."
         | 
         | - OPNVKarte: "Displays routes, and public transport. Roads are
         | not most prominent feature."
         | 
         | - Humanitarian: "Focuses on the developing countries with an
         | emphasis on features related to development and humanitarian
         | work. Good contrasting style in terms of overall colour
         | choices. Terrain shading. Many new/different icons
         | (particularly for basic amenities in developing countries) and
         | more nuanced surface track-type rendering. "
         | 
         | [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Featured_tile_layers
        
         | sdfghswe wrote:
         | Thanks for this. Turns out I'm not just stupid.
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | https://mc.bbbike.org/mc/ allows to compare 250 map styles, up
         | to 8 per page (selector is bottom right of page). I'd like to
         | see the snow map, rail infrastructure and power infrastructure
         | map (https://openinframap.org/) added but it'd be overwhelming.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | Default site is primary for mappers.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-25 23:02 UTC)