[HN Gopher] LARPing and Violent Extremism
___________________________________________________________________
LARPing and Violent Extremism
Author : lolinder
Score : 86 points
Date : 2023-09-24 21:02 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (leb.fbi.gov)
(TXT) w3m dump (leb.fbi.gov)
| pstuart wrote:
| I get the appeal and why it's happening, but FFS, this is a huge
| threat to the United States (and other countries), and it seems
| to be growing day by day. It's easy to dismiss ("it's just
| LARPing with real guns, dude") but we need to address it head on.
|
| Because this is deeply intertwined with "politics" it becomes
| radioactive to discuss in polite society (e.g., HN itself), but
| we'd be well served to find a way to have _some_ dialog.
| Mountain_Skies wrote:
| Does it seem to be growing and is a huge threat in numeric
| comparison to other negative outcomes because the quantity is
| actually rapidly increasing or because the media and government
| are beating a drum about this issue louder than about other
| issues, regardless of quantitative changes in risk and absolute
| risk?
| tuckerpo wrote:
| Also see: in Minecraft.
| dnd_was_evil wrote:
| Remember when DnD was the cover for a nation wide cult that
| murdered children by the dozen?
|
| Congratulations you're as out of touch as our parents were.
|
| >Individuals can engage in such activity informally or as part of
| an organized group. Presumably, the earliest formal LARP group
| was Dagorhir Battle Games, founded in the United States in 1977.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Gettysburg_reunion
|
| Now if only these experts could use google leaping for 30 seconds
| before writing an add for their consultancy services.
|
| >Ms. Amman is a retired FBI supervisory special agent, certified
| threat manager, and private threat assessment management
| consultant in West Des Moines, Iowa. Dr. Phil Saragoza
|
| >Dr. Saragoza is a forensic psychiatrist, adjunct clinical
| assistant professor at the University of Michigan, and threat
| assessment consultant in Ann Arbor, Michigan.
| woodruffw wrote:
| I think it's worth reading the linked page more closely: the
| distinction scheme it describes appears to be designed to
| handle the exact problem you've identified.
|
| (That's not to say that it's good, or that the FBI will apply
| it effectively or correctly, only that it isn't as simple as
| "the FBI believes in the DnD cult conspiracy.")
| dnd_was_evil wrote:
| [flagged]
| crazygringo wrote:
| I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it
| was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the
| difference between criminals and LARPers...??
|
| But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to
| claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all,
| but just LARPing:
|
| > _For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020
| for plotting to abduct Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, he
| told the FBI he and his compatriots were only LARPing. Franks
| later pled guilty and testified that this was a lie._
|
| So this document is for investigators to ensure they have a
| specific framework for being able to collect the appropriate
| evidence to use in court that prevents a defendent from using a
| LARPing defense.
|
| Which actually makes a tremendous amount of sense. When armed
| militia members claim all of their organizing/preparation is just
| recreational, and totally unlinked to violence that members _do_
| eventually commit, it 's important to have delineated standards
| to be able to refute that.
| pard68 wrote:
| Not perhaps always, but I've seen the term "LARPing" used in a
| more tongue-in-cheek and disparaging way. Might be part of it
| some times.
|
| "Did you hear what Jim has planned?"
|
| -"Oh he's just LARPing"
| ethbr1 wrote:
| The blatant lying that law enforcement has to deal with on a
| daily basis is uderappreciated.
|
| The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say many
| things, like _" My buddies and I were participating in a
| fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected
| supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was just
| a game. Like those other people who play games!"_
|
| Good for the authors in making an effort to clearly distinguish
| between protected speech and non-protected conspiracy to commit
| a crime.
| akira2501 wrote:
| Which is why our founders had the good sense to bake jury
| trials right into the constitution. The focus on law
| enforcement, who in this particular case, were themselves
| involved in the "LARPing" to large extent, is bizarre.
|
| The purpose of the criminal justice system isn't to punish
| every single unruly act. It's to match punishments with the
| actual crimes committed. It's bizarre to see Hacker News
| blindly cheering on this document, although, understandably
| it's because most people probably don't personally like those
| defendants.
|
| So.. of course it becomes the focus of the top comment.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| I'm cheering it on because I remember the Secret Service's
| ignorant CFAA fumbling in the 90s.
| HarryHirsch wrote:
| The blatant lying from law enforcement that the citizenry has
| to deal with on a daily basis is underappreciated.
|
| The US has a legal system that permits a police office to say
| anything, but a citizen must not lie to a police officer.
|
| The Miranda warning is not a good sign - it reminds the
| citizen that the government can and will use anything a
| citizen says for its own purposes.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| That's a weird way of looking at the Fifth Amendment.
|
| You have the right to say nothing.
| HarryHirsch wrote:
| Yes, but I would prefer not to exercise that in court, it
| would be better if the government behaved itself towards
| its citizens. You also have the constitutional right to a
| speedy trial, but in practice that doesn't look hot
| either.
| murderfs wrote:
| > The US has a legal system that permits a defendant to say
| many things, like "My buddies and I were participating in a
| fantasy scenario where we plotted in detail and collected
| supplies to kidnap the governor of our state... but it was
| just a game. Like those other people who play games!"
|
| You can even get acquitted for it because it turned out that
| the FBI was the dungeon master all along: https://chicago.sun
| times.com/columnists/2022/4/13/23023950/m...
| ethbr1 wrote:
| 5 guilty convictions, 4 guilty pleas, and 5 not guilty
| verdicts seems like a balanced justice system? https://en.m
| .wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_...
|
| Conspiracy plots are hard to prosecute, because who-did-
| what-when-with-what-intent is complex.
| seventytwo wrote:
| You're repeating extremist talking points and making
| excuses for the extremists. It's true that some of the
| suspects were acquitted, but many more weren't. The FBI can
| make mistakes in their cause, just like any other
| organization of human individuals. The mistake the FBI made
| that led tot he acquittals does not excuse the fact that
| many others were very much indeed plotting to do bad shit.
|
| Stop making excuses for extremists.
| Jensson wrote:
| It isn't just courts, these are for police officers in general,
| they say it near the top "which may be helpful to both law
| enforcement and prosecutors if suspects of targeted violence
| claim they were playacting".
|
| These standards will likely make officers go after more genuine
| LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic if police
| officers start to follow them, for example:
|
| > Role players will not discuss law enforcement concerns on
| social media or provide guidance to each other if confronted by
| an officer. Also, they will have no demonstrated interest in
| criminal cases involving claims of LARP.
|
| If police officers are going after LARPers then LARPers will
| start to talk about what to do in those cases.
|
| > The foremost distinction between LARPers and violent
| extremists is that genuine role players will not care whether
| others are watching. They may even embrace third-party
| observation, such as nonplayer characters or a general
| audience. After all, LARP is a performance.
|
| Lots of people are embarrassed to do things in public, a police
| officer coming across some people LARPing in private shouldn't
| be cause for investigation.
| [deleted]
| MC68328 wrote:
| Don't worry, the cops are not going to take away your robe
| and wizard hat.
|
| But if you're playing pretend with real weapons, you deserve
| scrutiny, regardless of your ideology.
| georgeecollins wrote:
| I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But
| reading the article I came away with a very different take
| than you. This person is trying to define the difference
| between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to
| someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does.
|
| I really don't think that the police are going to be a
| problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-
| enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it. But
| LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don
| real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem.
| Jensson wrote:
| > I really don't think that the police are going to be a
| problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-
| enacting a historical battle. I have never heard of it.
|
| But now with these guidelines police has a reason to go
| after them. Something like: "I just followed these
| guidelines, it says you are showing terrorist signs and
| aren't real LARPers".
|
| They didn't do that before, but guidelines like these
| changes behavior and can easily make things worse.
| text0404 wrote:
| What motivation do they have to do this? Are you talking
| about, like, Civil War re-enactors? Pretty sure the
| police aren't going to roll up on some dudes in wigs and
| toy bayonets in a park. Those people usually get permits
| for that kind of thing anyways.
|
| If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering
| weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take
| down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely
| that the feds are going to pay attention.
| Jensson wrote:
| > If you're part of a group with a manifesto, ordering
| weapons and explosives and doing practice drills to take
| down the US government, then yeah... it's highly likely
| that the feds are going to pay attention.
|
| And in those cases the "I was just LARPing" defense
| already doesn't work. This document will not help catch
| criminals since in clear cases they are already caught,
| all it does is raise more suspicion against genuine
| LARPing.
| viscanti wrote:
| > These standards will likely make officers go after more
| genuine LARPers than before. These tips are very problematic
| if police officers start to follow them.
|
| It sounds like it might be a dangerous time to LARP about and
| plan terrorist acts. That could be very problematic for those
| who enjoy that as a recreational hobby. But in some ways
| there's a precedent for it with flying. Lots of people used
| to love to LARP about taking a bomb on a plane and that
| recreational activity has been significantly curtailed. Maybe
| we're heading for a world where it's no longer safe to plan
| the kidnapping of state or national government officials and
| then practice the steps necessary to carry it out, and where
| we can no longer joke about a bomb look-alike device that we
| want to take on airplanes.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| This isn't "seek out LARPers". This is "how do I distinguish
| a group of people in the woods running around in camo as
| LARPers or violent extremists". They found the people first.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| You're looking at this from an assumption-of-LARPing.
|
| Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh
| at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can
| 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes
| in them.
|
| When interviewed without charge, imagine McVeigh claims that
| it's part of his LARPing activities.
|
| What standards would you suggest that agent applies, in order
| to avoid a false negative?
| Jensson wrote:
| Your example just proves that this document doesn't hold
| water, he did that in public and didn't care about people
| seeing what he did, so the document would suggest he was
| LARPing for real.
|
| I don't see how this document would help find criminals and
| help free innocents. It seems to give way too rigid
| guidelines that will be misused by many officers.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| He wasn't practicing building pipe bombs in public.
|
| By the rubric this document suggests, McVeigh would have
| satisfied 0 / 10 LARPing signals in Table 1.
| Jensson wrote:
| Your scenario was:
|
| > Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy
| McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun
| he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats
| with bullet holes in them.
|
| Not "Imagine an FBI agent looking at Timothy McVeigh
| building pipe bombs in private". I don't see how this
| document would have helped stop McVeigh.
| prepend wrote:
| > assumption-of-LARPing.
|
| And this seems accurate as the ratio of larping to
| terrorism is probably millions to one.
|
| Thousands of people larp every day in the US. Terrorism is
| fairly rare with maybe a few events per year.
| Karunamon wrote:
| Another way to phrase that first sentence is "assumption of
| innocence". And while random commentators on the internet
| are not obligated to honor it, law enforcement is supposed
| to.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| This document is seemingly targeted on the investigation
| phase, before a charge has been filed, to distinguish
| what characteristics legitimate LARPing may have vs
| militia claims-of-LARPing.
|
| Presumption of innocence does not extend to the
| initiation of an investigation, but comes into play with
| increasingly invasive methods (and ultimately, charges).
|
| US law enforcement is empowered to initiate duck
| investigations on things that quack pretty liberally.
| screwturner68 wrote:
| Really? I don't think due process and law enforcement
| have anything to do with one another. Law enforcement
| arrests people on made up laws all the time just because
| they are doing something the law enforcement officer
| doesn't like, there is no consideration of presumption of
| innocence. Law enforcement's job is to enforce "the law"
| as they interpenetrate it -unlike civilians where
| "ignorance of the law is not an excuse" in law
| enforcement they certainly an go with ignorance of the
| law as long as the judge thinks it's "reasonable". Let's
| not forget the police have been embedding themselves in
| peaceful protest groups for the last 100 years.
| TheJoeMan wrote:
| To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor
| choice to get the point across. It's been established
| (https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-
| in...) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a
| way having agents LARPing as terrorists.
|
| Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe
| enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police
| while running around the woods with foam swords.
| seventytwo wrote:
| Sorry, but this is right wing extremist propaganda to excuse
| their behavior.
|
| The FBI didn't make them do it, and the trials and
| convictions in the two years since this article has been
| shared demonstrate that.
| 0max wrote:
| The most common form of LARPing I can think of is Civil War
| reenactments in Virginia
| YeBanKo wrote:
| It is very scary to read such an "opinion" pieces on fbi.gov
| domain. First, they make it possible to connect any organized
| activity to "violent extremism".
|
| And then this:
|
| > Meetings may entail impassioned rhetoric and rehearsal of
| tactical operations for the ultimate future apocalypse when
| citizens will overtake the government or institute their own
| community policing.
|
| This quote is fucking insane, imo. "citizens will overtake the
| government" - aren't citizens already supposed to be in charge of
| the government? A very strange choice of words. What about all
| that "We the People" stuff. And second, "or institute their own
| community policing" - it is how the policing in the US works.
| Local police forces account for the majority of police force in
| the US according to National Sources of Law Enforcement
| Employment Data [1].
|
| [1] https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/nsleed.pdf
| ethbr1 wrote:
| The article also contains
|
| >> _[recommendations to probe and challenge] motives during an
| interview (e.g., "If you were just LARPing, why did you need
| live explosives?")_
| cronix wrote:
| The answer is probably the same as why Hollywood uses them in
| movies. For realism.
| dnd_was_evil wrote:
| [flagged]
| Xeamek wrote:
| No, (individual) citizens aren't supposed to be that.
|
| Now, all (majority) citizens? Sure. But we established proper
| procedures how to execute that power, and you aren't supposed
| to skip those. Mainly because without those, you cannot
| guarantee that it's actually majority's opinion, and not loud
| minority. But even if you have majority of the area agreeing on
| something, there is no reason why suddenly they should be able
| to abandon all the agreements, (social) contracts and rules
| they agreed to before.
| shmde wrote:
| > In the modern era, as extreme beliefs (e.g., anti-government or
| anti-law enforcement movements)
|
| Fbi quietly putting psyops telling anti- government is extreme
| belief lmao.
| [deleted]
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Cosplaytriots attempting to use LARPing as an excuse is
| reminiscent of:
|
| > _" Never believe that [they] are completely unaware of the
| absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are
| frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves,
| for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words
| responsibly, since he believes in words. ... They delight in
| acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound
| argument but to intimidate and disconcert." -- JPS_
| [deleted]
| Tao3300 wrote:
| Sartre on Anti-Semites
| fortran77 wrote:
| https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-
| that-...
| econorew wrote:
| [dead]
| flangola7 wrote:
| Once you realize many individuals see written language not as a
| means to share ideas and have mutual constructive discussion,
| but as just another weapon to achieve their ends, a lot of
| human interactions (especially online) make a lot more sense.
| It's very dangerous since many of us (myself included)
| instinctively assume good faith and approach conflicts as
| possible misunderstandings or opportunities for constructive
| common ground finding; but the other person (regardless of how
| they present themselves) isn't interested in any of that at
| all. They would just as quickly hit you over the head with a
| club.
| kens wrote:
| That reminds me of Scalzi's interesting post "The
| Gamification of Rhetoric". He describes how many people are
| not interested in issues or discussion, but are just trying
| to win with a sequence of stock arguments. He refers to this
| as slapping down cards from a "Debate: The Gathering" stack.
|
| https://whatever.scalzi.com/2018/08/03/the-gamification-
| of-r...
| Racing0461 wrote:
| We were just larping in minecraft your honor. teehee.
| lelandbatey wrote:
| Some key context, provided if you read the article, is that this
| exists to outline the difference _between_ LARPing and Violent
| Extremism, especially as some violent extremists have claimed
| that their plans of violence were only "LARPing" and not bona-
| fide terrorism.
|
| The exact differences they point out, such as "spectators being
| welcome" vs "secrecy is paramount" are clear, universal, well
| thought out, and interesting to read about and consider.
| rascul wrote:
| > The exact differences they point out, such as "spectators
| being welcome" vs "secrecy is paramount" are clear, universal,
| well thought out, and interesting to read about and consider.
|
| So if I want to roleplay a medieval castle siege with some
| friends in private then I'm a violent extremist?
| slavboj wrote:
| It's not like there isn't a robust history of law enforcement
| "spectators" trying to railroad participants based on
| absolutely nothing, including in _literal role playing
| scenarios_. Privacy rights exist for a reason.
|
| http://www.sjgames.com/SS/
| bawolff wrote:
| The, "its just a joke, bro" defence applied to an organized
| uprising.
| [deleted]
| AmericanOP wrote:
| Schrodinger's bullying
| slavboj wrote:
| "Role players will not discuss law enforcement concerns on social
| media or provide guidance to each other if confronted by an
| officer. Also, they will have no demonstrated interest in
| criminal cases involving claims of LARP."
|
| Your resistance proves your guilt. Insisting on your fourth and
| fifth amendment rights? Noting other cases where innocent
| hobbyists were threatened and trying to avoid the same? Seems
| like violent extremism.
| Jensson wrote:
| > The foremost distinction between LARPers and violent extremists
| is that genuine role players will not care whether others are
| watching. They may even embrace third-party observation, such as
| nonplayer characters or a general audience. After all, LARP is a
| performance.
|
| > Conversely, violent extremists or terrorists want secrecy. This
| desire may contribute to the sense of clandestine excitement that
| surrounds them and their preparation on a pathway to actual
| violence.9
|
| What is this? Why is the FBI writing stuff like this and
| publishing it?
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| parsimo2010 wrote:
| Because they need to provide a reference for when FBI agents in
| the future have to decide of someone is harmless or not. While
| this is available publicly, the audience is mostly law
| enforcement officers and possibly prosecutors. Many law
| enforcement officers have no familiarity with fantasy hobbies
| or war reenactment. Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons
| and operate in the open is a good thing to point out. It's not
| obvious to everyone.
| Jensson wrote:
| > Pointing out that LARPers use fake weapons and operate in
| the open is a good thing to point out
|
| So you think it is fine to investigate people who play around
| on their private property for terrorism just because they
| don't want you watching? To me that seems very scary and
| oppressive.
| _jal wrote:
| > Why is the FBI writing stuff like this and publishing it?
|
| Violent extremists use a variety of dodges to attempt to avoid
| accountability for their behavior. You've probably seen
| examples - it is very common to shout "false flag", claiming
| rivals impersonated them, for instance[1].
|
| This is just another in a long line of those sorts of things.
|
| The FBI's remit includes investigating and arresting violent
| extremists. As such, they collect and disseminate information
| that assists with that goal.
|
| [1] Some of the same people also actually engage in "false
| flag" operations of their own - for instance, the "Boogaloo
| Boys" were responsible for violence and arson in Minnesota and
| murder in California during the George Floyd riots, which was
| initially misattributed to BLM-affiliated folks.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo...
| adfgiionio wrote:
| [dead]
| ajb wrote:
| Because rightly or wrongly, for serious violence the law
| considers not just the violence itself illegal, but also
| preparatory actions such as planning, sourcing weapons, etc.
| The bright line "when someone gets hurt" is too late, so
| analysis like this has to occur so that LARP can be
| distinguished from practicing before violent action, especially
| when the latter is claimed to be the former
| bediger4000 wrote:
| Qanon. Anons use this kind of defense all the time, but the
| ideology itself continues to inspire violence.
| jeffbee wrote:
| """The Bulletin provides a forum for information exchange
| throughout the criminal justice community. Readers consist
| mostly of midlevel to executive managers in agencies of various
| sizes worldwide."""
| Jensson wrote:
| And those will now think that LARPers who want privacy are
| terrorists? I don't see how this is a good way to separate
| LARPing from terrorism. It is scary to think that law
| enforcement thinks that people who want privacy are
| terrorists.
| jeffbee wrote:
| This article is about how to test the genuineness of claims
| of LARPing by people suspected of attempting to overthrow
| governments. If you don't have the precondition of armed
| bandits circling your seat of government, then the article
| is of no relevance.
| [deleted]
| YeBanKo wrote:
| The article is of relevance to anyone who is affected by
| criminal justice system. This is literally an article on
| how the law should be interpreted by federal law
| enforcement.
| pests wrote:
| This is not "find larpers, check privacy, find crime"
|
| Its "find crime, they claim larping, check behavior to
| verify"
| Jensson wrote:
| The whole point is to tell the difference between "find
| larpers" and "find crime", so the rest of those points
| doesn't say anything. They found some people who did
| something suspicious, that is point 1, the next step is
| this document to help tell the difference.
| pests wrote:
| That is what I said.
| toasted-subs wrote:
| Lol I wouldn't mind secrecy because I'm a kinky person. Seems
| like the FBI has never learned to enjoy yourself.
|
| No body with a hot girlfriend and a jacuzzi is flying planes
| into buildings.
| Y_Y wrote:
| [flagged]
| kr0bat wrote:
| They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected.
| Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the
| authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace.
| Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant
| acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy
| group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming
| "artistic expression" to excuse threatening language.
|
| I can see this being a big problem with memes in the immediate
| future. Does the FBI have a page where they attempt to
| distinguish edgy memes from genuine calls to violence? This is a
| relatively benign example, but there are TikToks where users
| pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon.
| Sure they're all jokes, but modern internet humor is deeply
| ironic; I'd imagine there are plenty of genuinely violent people
| making seemingly ironic memes. I'd also imagine that there are
| nonviolent memers disseminating genuine violent ideas and vice
| versa.
| Tao3300 wrote:
| > users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's
| service weapon.
|
| Why is this a trend...
| HideousKojima wrote:
| Funnier is how many of these people don't seem to understand
| how retention holsters work.
| xwdv wrote:
| To create a paranoia amongst police officers that
| disproportionately affects minorities.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| Wait, is this trend being pushed by fascists, anti-
| fascists, or capitalists? I'm confused.
| kr0bat wrote:
| D) Irony poisoned teenagers
| peyton wrote:
| Assuming you mean negatively affecting minorities, how does
| that follow from the article:
|
| > Extremism does not exist without identifying an out-group
| and taking hostile action against it.
| kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
| Because social media has taught people - especially young
| people - that views/clicks/likes/etc are equivalent to
| popularity and acceptance, so they need to do outrageous
| things to get the views.
|
| Remember Tide pods? Same thing.
| pests wrote:
| If I had to guess I would saynpart of the intrusive-
| thoughts/OCD/impulse-control community. I've seen similar
| about swerving into oncoming traffic or walking off a ledge.
| Karellen wrote:
| Intrisive thoughts are fairly common, and not related to a
| specific community or exclusive to any identifiable
| subgroup:
|
| > These thoughts are part of being human, and need not ruin
| the quality of life. Treatment is available when the
| thoughts are associated with OCD and become persistent,
| severe, or distressing.
|
| > One example of an aggressive intrusive thought is the
| high place phenomenon, the sudden urge to jump from a high
| place. A 2011 study assessed the prevalence of this
| phenomenon among US college students; it found that even
| among those participants with no history of suicidal
| ideation, over 50% had experienced an urge to jump or
| imagined themselves jumping from a high place at least
| once. A 2020 study carried out in Germany reported similar
| results.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thought#Aggressive_
| t...
| pests wrote:
| I specifically mean the TikTok self-proclaimed community.
| Search #intrusivethoughts or find some videos and I'm
| sure the algo will start showing you more.
| BasedAnon wrote:
| [flagged]
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| cf _mens rea_ ; in the financial context Matt Levine's "Money
| Stuff" column often points out that if people are doing
| something dodgy the worst thing (for any future defence) they
| can do is try to weasel-word it.
|
| Edit: eg https://kotaku.com/minecraft-death-threat-4chan-pol-
| shooter-...
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the
| authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace._
|
| This is a reasonable concern.
|
| I will note anecdotally not all role players are playing with a
| full deck -- though I am more familiar with role playing gamers,
| not LARPers (granted: not entirely separate groups). Some are
| mildly cracked, sometimes harmlessly -- the guy who exclusively
| played female characters and might have identified as _trans_ had
| he been born later -- and some not so harmlessly -- the gal who
| forged her own sword which she took with her everywhere, even the
| mall, by concealing it under a cape, and genuinely believed she
| was the last special warrior of some sort from a fictional
| series.* She believed she was female to signify she was the last.
|
| So that may complicate sorting out who is just playing games from
| who is a genuine threat of planned violence.
|
| * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9
| hock_ads_ad_hoc wrote:
| I thought there was a "has difficulty differentiating LARP
| persona from real identity" criteria on the list. Seems like
| that should come into play in the situation you described.
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