[HN Gopher] Hank Asher turned Americans' private information int...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Hank Asher turned Americans' private information into a business
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 183 points
       Date   : 2023-09-22 14:46 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | $100s of millions of dollar of pre-ipo wealth. one step below
       | paper wealth. It would seem like in the late 90s wealth was
       | fleeting like that, not like today where ppl in tech seem to get
       | rich and stay rich (like Stipe, Coinbbase, Dorpbox, and others).
       | Riches to rags stories seemed more common 2-3 decades ago
       | compared to today.
        
       | ako wrote:
       | Thought this would be about mark zuckerberg....
        
       | dventimi wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | pizzafeelsright wrote:
       | I worked with a gentleman who worked with Asher. I learned a lot
       | about databases and people's data through those conversations.
       | 
       | I think the solution to data privacy is to require companies to
       | provide the receipts of where they obtained the data. Know my
       | age? I didn't tell you. You bought it? From whom? Follow up with
       | them. No receipt? Fine paid directly to the individual. Make PII
       | data property.
        
         | Obscurity4340 wrote:
         | Yas! Paper trails and more paper trails. Follow the money and
         | handoffs
        
         | avgcorrection wrote:
         | The solution to data tracking is more data tracking?
         | 
         | This would work if everything would be done in bulk and by
         | officials. It wouldn't work if it was just something citizens
         | would have a _right_ to know but would have to do all the
         | legwork in order to uncover (sending out dozens of requests)
         | and then would have to sue entities in court.
         | 
         | It seems simpler to regulate PII based on consent and strict
         | need-to-know principles.
        
         | dataflow wrote:
         | > No receipt? Fine paid directly to the individual. Make PII
         | data property.
         | 
         | Er, so anyone can keep your 'property' (data) without your
         | consent by just paying you the statutory fee?
        
           | verve_rat wrote:
           | Why wouldn't the fine also come with instructions to "stop
           | that"?
           | 
           | If you shoplift and get caught, you don't get to keep the
           | stuff.
        
             | dataflow wrote:
             | Well it wasn't in the comment, they just mentioned a fine,
             | not any other penalty.
             | 
             | Moreover, have you seen how some people (generally
             | wealthier, but not always) treat, say, paid parking? They
             | just don't pay at all, because it's not worth the hassle
             | for them. Sometimes even with the occasional enforcement,
             | they come out ahead compared to just paying the original
             | fee. But even if it isn't worth it financially, it's often
             | worth their time, so they do it without really caring one
             | way or the other.
             | 
             | Anyway... the penalty for shoplifting (assuming they bother
             | to go after you) isn't generally a "pay this fine and
             | return what you stole". It's being subject to everything
             | that comes with crimes... dealing with law enforcement,
             | tarnishing your personal record, potentially getting jail
             | time depending on the severity, etc. Any civil case that
             | you might get filed against you for damages, attorneys'
             | fees, etc. is just icing on the cake, and hardly the meat
             | of the punishment.
        
               | Nevermark wrote:
               | Ok, but let's strong man this instead of finding reasons
               | not to consider it.
               | 
               | If they get caught it's $100 and they need to delete it.
               | Caught with the same data its $1000.
               | 
               | Furthermore, if they are caught storing data in a
               | pattern, say 100 people catch them within a year of the
               | first, the fine retroactively becomes $1000 per incident
               | over the time of the pattern.
               | 
               | With a Judge having discretion to raise fines,
               | retroactively and inclusive of new violations, for
               | companies that simply refuse to comply.
               | 
               | I feel like this could work.
               | 
               | In fact, I would think most companies would start
               | designing their systems to ensure they didn't violate by
               | accident. Which is what they are supposed to be doing,
               | but not.
        
           | digdugdirk wrote:
           | The value of modern data analytics comes from the massive
           | quantities they have available. Each individual piece of data
           | is hardly worth anything.
           | 
           | Make it easy to file a claim and set the fine at $100 per
           | occurance and things would change rather quickly.
        
             | dataflow wrote:
             | I think you missed the point? You're putting a price on
             | people's privacy. Not everyone who feels their privacy is
             | being violated really wants payment in exchange, they just
             | don't want their privacy to be violated.
        
               | digdugdirk wrote:
               | Ah, I was looking at it from a system level. Make it a
               | highly lopsided financial cost for a company to use data
               | that hasn't been consented to, and the huge number of
               | people keeping tabs on them would make it financially
               | ruinous for a company to try and skirt the rules.
               | 
               | End outcome is the same - peoples privacy already has a
               | price. That price is just currently only represented by
               | FAANG profits.
        
               | dataflow wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | ianai wrote:
               | In the US the civil courts dole out rulings requiring the
               | injured party be paid by the offender when enough
               | evidence has been presented. It's not perfect-money can't
               | right all wrongs and the valuations can be problematic-
               | but it can act as a counterbalance. Making it a law would
               | mean a company would risk losing their ability to
               | continue as a business following a successful conviction.
               | In the US this has been turned into rarely indicting
               | companies as the government doesn't want to destroy whole
               | companies that way and give other companies undue market
               | power, or something.
               | 
               | Feels like an area that could be handled better.
        
               | tiffanyg wrote:
               | There is a certain mindset that unfortunately has been
               | ever more widely 'bought into' and is especially highly
               | represented at the top levels of corporations in recent
               | years* (particularly in the US). The mindset is
               | fundamentally "invisible hand", "Adam Smith", "Ayn Rand",
               | etc. People who mostly or nearly only think in terms of
               | costs, profits, etc.**
               | 
               | The easiest way to deal with people like this is by
               | putting it in 'the language' they speak. While I'd love,
               | personally, to see some direct regulation, legislation,
               | etc. that doesn't involve turning this into yet another
               | line 'in the books' / in the annual reports etc. of
               | companies ... and feeds, arguably, even more into that
               | sort of thinking ... for multiple reasons there are
               | extensive practical issues with doing that in the US
               | currently. It'd certainly be helpful in the longer term
               | if we could get some people away from viewing everything
               | through the lens of numbers - especially conflating OTHER
               | PEOPLE with "format strings" in Excel (effectively). But,
               | I believe in being practical along with strategic. If
               | such metrics are needed, private-party lawsuits are
               | needed ... if government (outside of perhaps putting some
               | basic accounting in place &/ the justice system and
               | current tort laws) is not an option for sorting out
               | disputes and correcting bad behavior, particularly some
               | forms of traditional government regulation, and the
               | bottom-line is king ... then let's use what is available
               | or might be put in place, ultimately speaking the
               | 'language' necessary to push things in a more reasonable
               | direction.
               | 
               | * Not uniformly distributed, for sure, but increasingly
               | visible on average - in part, thanks MBA programs, but
               | also, somewhat relatedly, decades of work and marketing
               | from people who really want to turn the clock back ...
               | wannabe robber-barons (https://youtu.be/DqgvHUg_vxY) and
               | even those with plantation 'wetdreams'
               | 
               | ** Incidentally, this is related to the kind of "mob
               | rule" that outright dangerous politicians like Trump
               | represent. Importantly, dangerous to EVERYONE, even those
               | in the cult, though they almost certainly don't know the
               | true extent of the danger, even remotely. In essence,
               | without any principles / rule of law established in
               | notions like actual justice, truth, fairness, equitable
               | treatment, etc., any forces driving large systems
               | involving people will tend to devolve into forms of mob
               | rule. Whether it's markets for goods and services, the
               | "marketplace of ideas", etc.
               | 
               | What is more and more absent in America, in particular,
               | in public discourse especially, but also in certain
               | business sectors of, in some cases, outsized importance
               | in this entire 'picture', is the kind of principled
               | viewpoints, ideas, thinking, etc. that have repeatedly
               | re-formed this country at those critical moments when it
               | might have broken / not become the exemplar that it often
               | has been. Whether that happens this time as well remains
               | to be seen, I think.
               | 
               | That's a massive topic ... all of this is ... and I am
               | really no expert in much of this, so caveat there, but, I
               | have enough of a sense and of the details of history and
               | the differences in outcomes at different times and in
               | different places to offer the commentary I am right now.
               | More importantly, regardless of some of the background /
               | mechanisms, the actual behaviors are clear enough in
               | recent times / events / data. I.e., what I've written
               | outside of these footnotes.
        
               | dataflow wrote:
               | No comment on your larger point, but I fail to see any
               | evidence that the 'language' is the problem, or that
               | speaking in "fines" is a solution. In fact, I see quite
               | the opposite - we've seen repeatedly that corporations
               | treat fines as cost of business. Moreover it's not like
               | data collection was ever outlawed, so I don't see the
               | motivation to give up immediately and jump to a fining
               | model. If anything, sanctioning things via fees could
               | very well cement the practice in even more, and make it
               | harder to outlaw entirely.
        
         | VinLucero wrote:
         | I agree this solution solves privacy in an economically
         | sensible way.
        
         | tacticalmook wrote:
         | Could give us the run-around with circular receipts, or
         | millions of back-and-forth receipts.
        
           | DangitBobby wrote:
           | If we can't follow the trail, you get a fine. It's not our
           | problem, it's your problem.
        
         | YeBanKo wrote:
         | Why not require companies to get consent from the person to
         | store the data, regardless where they get it from?
        
           | myth2018 wrote:
           | Not sure it'd be enough. In one Brazilian s State, it became
           | mandatory for drugstores to get such consent. For some time,
           | they presented a piece of paper and told people they needed
           | that paper signed so that a juicy discount could be given.
           | People didn't think twice.
           | 
           | After some time the drugstores realized that the government
           | had no resources nor interest to enforce such law and now
           | they simply don't comply any longer.
           | 
           | I'm afraid this is the sort of decision which average people
           | is not really well-equipped to make by themselves. Companies
           | should be forbidden to collect and sell certain sorts of
           | data, period.
        
             | nextaccountic wrote:
             | that's what should be illegal: to give discounts based on
             | whether you disclose your PII or not. that's because they
             | were already investigated once on allegations that they
             | would sell this data to insurance, but that's hard to
             | prove. if the discount was straight up illegal, prosecutors
             | would have a much easier case
             | 
             | in the Brazilians drugstores case, it's absurd, it's like,
             | a $400 drug sold for $300 (mumbers in local currency) if
             | you agree to disclose the equivalent of your SSN. how can
             | your data be worth so much?
             | 
             | truth is that they don't expect so sell a single unit for
             | $400 - the price difference in this case is enough for, in
             | practice, providing your PII is mandatory
        
               | myth2018 wrote:
               | > that's what should be illegal: to give discounts based
               | on whether you disclose your PII or not
               | 
               | That would definitely help, but I think it wouldn't be
               | enough. Drugstores would promptly come up with some app-
               | related trick, like "just scan this QR-code to redeem
               | your discount", and personal info would be acquired
               | indirectly.
               | 
               | Legislators started to elaborate a bill recently,
               | addressing the case of drugstores in particular, but I
               | suspect they will end up delivering something full of
               | breaches, just like they did in the State of Sao Paulo.
               | 
               | Moreover, drugstores are on the spot currently, but there
               | are plenty of companies doing exactly the same nowadays.
               | 
               | > in the Brazilians drugstores case, it's absurd, it's
               | like, a $400 drug sold for $300
               | 
               | Indeed. And I've seen even more scandalous differences
               | already. Psychiatric drugs are the champions, in my
               | experience.
        
               | PeterisP wrote:
               | The EU/GDPR solution to that is definition of "freely
               | given consent" where such discount treatment means that
               | the "consent" doesn't count as a valid reason to permit
               | processing data, as it was not freely given; and also by
               | the requirement to be able to withdraw consent as easy it
               | was to give it, at any time, and without adverse
               | consequence, for example, one minute after receiving that
               | discount.
        
               | myth2018 wrote:
               | Brazilian LGPD also mandates companies to provide
               | channels for users to request their data to be deleted.
               | Theoretically, one can ask their data to be deleted right
               | after they received a discount. But I dont't know. I
               | guess they would do everything they are entitled to in
               | the interim, and by the time your data removal request is
               | fulfilled, the damage is already done.
        
               | myth2018 wrote:
               | > that's what should be illegal: to give discounts based
               | on whether you disclose your PII or not
               | 
               | That would definitely help, but I think it wouldn't be
               | enough. Drugstores would promptly come up with some app-
               | related trick, like "just scan this QR-code to redeem
               | your discount", and personal-info would be acquired
               | indirectly.
               | 
               | They started to elaborate a bill recently, addressing the
               | case of drugstores in particular, but I suspect they will
               | eventually deliver something full of breaches, just like
               | they did in the State of Sao Paulo.
               | 
               | Moreover, drugstores are on the spot currently, but there
               | are plenty of companies doing exact the same nowadays.
               | 
               | >
        
           | ianai wrote:
           | Exactly. Acknowledge that PII and other data resulting from a
           | persons engagement with a platform is the persons property-
           | not the property of the platform. Don't want to pay? Don't
           | store it, don't sell it.
        
           | johndhi wrote:
           | Kind of a nightmare for cloud computing. What if for example
           | I'm a small business who stores my customer's email in
           | Salesforce. And uses another cloud provider to port data in
           | and out of Salesforce. And then uses splunk for error
           | monitoring... etc. All of them need explicit consent?
        
             | LapsangGuzzler wrote:
             | Adding friction makes sense in this context. The ease with
             | which we as technologists move customer data between
             | systems directly contributes to the privacy problem. It's
             | not the only avenue to improve end-user privacy, but as
             | long it remains easy for companies to move sensitive
             | customer data between systems, this will continue to be
             | abused.
        
             | jckahn wrote:
             | Yes please! That sounds great.
        
             | duncan-donuts wrote:
             | This is the difference between a data processor and a data
             | controller in the GDPR.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | PeterisP wrote:
             | The EU solution for that is specific 'data processor'
             | agreements where (a) they process the data on your behalf;
             | (b) they don't gain any permission whatsoever to use that
             | data for their own purposes, only what you ask them to do;
             | (c) they only have the right to do with that data the same
             | things you are permitted to do; (d) you have to inform
             | users (but not necessarily get consent) of all the
             | processors which are handling their data; (e) you're fully
             | responsible for what the processor does with that data.
             | Reasonable cloud providers like Saleforce, Splunk (and
             | pretty much all others which do business in EU) all have
             | adapted to GDPR and will give contractual guarantees that
             | they'll do everything properly but it's up to you to pick
             | providers which will actually uphold that contract.
        
             | YeBanKo wrote:
             | No, in short, all of them who want to act on data outside
             | of your instructions, need an explicit consent.
             | 
             | There is a difference between data controller and data
             | processor. AWS FAQ on GDPR [1] has actually a good
             | paragraph on it, see "Is AWS a data processor or a data
             | controller under the GDPR?".
             | 
             | In your example all cloud providers and SaaS businesses
             | like Splunk store data _on your behalf_ and _you own and
             | control_ it. For them it 's just a blob of data and they
             | are supposed to be agnostic of its business meaning. With
             | more targeted SaaS business like Salesforce, it might be
             | more nuanced, depends if they want to do any kind data
             | mining / processing themselves, but if they want to, then
             | yeah, they need an explicit consent. A law like this forces
             | SaaS companies to remove any ambiguity from their service
             | agreements to make sure they are strictly designated as
             | data processors when it comes to user data their customers
             | supply them. This AWS GDPR addendum [2] exists for this
             | reason. Otherwise, as a small business you rarely can
             | negotiate a tailored agreement with a large SaaS company to
             | make sure that the data you pump into it aren't going
             | places.
             | 
             | [1] https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/gdpr-center/
             | 
             | [2] https://d1.awsstatic.com/legal/aws-
             | gdpr/AWS_GDPR_DPA.pdf
        
         | specialist wrote:
         | > _Fine paid directly to the individual. Make PII data
         | property._
         | 
         | Correct. Specifically, establish personal sovereignty over
         | one's data.
         | 
         | If someone's using my data, I get my cut. Pay me.
         | 
         | --
         | 
         | I'll have to ponder the notion of receipts (provenance).
         | 
         | I can imagine how the provenance of my data probably matters.
         | Prescriptions, test results, reading list, etc.
         | 
         | But PII is so ubiquitous now, it's part of the public record.
         | Which, counter intuitively, is a good thing.
         | 
         | Establishing a stable universal identifier unlocks the ability
         | to encrypt our personal data _at rest_.
         | 
         | In our current world of no universal identifiers, linking
         | personal data data across systems requires it be stored as
         | plaintext.
         | 
         | The book Translucent Databases (2nd ed) explains the
         | techniques.
        
       | jazzyjackson wrote:
       | > They influence [...] how long I wait on hold when I call a
       | customer-service line.
       | 
       | say what?!
        
         | flangola7 wrote:
         | Call directing has been a practice for decades. Customers that
         | bring in less revenue or are more likely to be a problem that
         | consumes agent time and refund budgets get de-prioritized.
        
           | jazzyjackson wrote:
           | I had no idea, I've just been living my life thinking the
           | world is just and we all wait in the same line.
           | 
           | Thinking back on it, when I heard "calls are answered in the
           | order they are received" I never asked myself "what other
           | order would they be answered in" xD :'<
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | > I had no idea, I've just been living my life thinking the
             | world is just and we all wait in the same line.
             | 
             | The lines were not obvious, or there were simply fewer
             | segmentations, when I was a kid.
             | 
             | Now, you see it at the airport with 3 different levels
             | (regular TSA/precheck/clear), based on how much you pay.
             | 
             | You see it at theme parks like Disney world / six flags,
             | and even there, there are multiple levels of priority you
             | can buy.
             | 
             | And I went to my county fair for the first time this year,
             | and I was somehow surprised that you could pay more for
             | skipping ahead on simple carnival rides, even for toddlers.
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | The airport isn't a great example here. There are 3 lines
               | because there are 2 different parties involved: the TSA,
               | which has authority over the security checkpoint, and the
               | airport/airlines, which have authority over the lines
               | leading up to the checkpoint.
               | 
               | The regular line is self explanatory. Precheck is solely
               | run by the TSA, and they politely ask the airports to set
               | up dedicated lines for precheck. Sometimes they do,
               | sometimes they don't. Until passengers are in the
               | checkpoint though (i.e. beyond the id check), the TSA has
               | fairly limited authority. The airport is ultimately
               | responsible for getting passengers to the security
               | checkpoint, subject to some minor conditions by the TSA.
               | Clear pays the airport/airlines a kickback from the
               | subscriptions to let their agents manage the queues,
               | which includes putting their subscribers in front of the
               | other lines. One thing they can't do is give you special
               | perks inside the checkpoint like precheck does.
               | 
               | So, 3 lines because 2 different parties get revenue from
               | one each.
        
               | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
               | By "manage the lines" do you mean ID verification,
               | boarding pass check, etc?
               | 
               | I assume all the biometrics for Clear aren't just to
               | prove your the person who paid for Clear?
        
               | AlotOfReading wrote:
               | No, collecting biometrics at registration is required by
               | the legal framework they operate in (a.k.a as a
               | "Registered Traveler" program [0]). However, they could
               | use other biometrics like fingerprints if they chose.
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_Traveler
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I do not see how any of that is relevant.
               | 
               | The point is, you pay more, you save life time. The
               | government could have chosen to make it free so everyone
               | can access these time saving measures, but our leaders
               | did not, deeming it acceptable for further tranches of
               | society to be publicly displayed.
        
               | crazydoggers wrote:
               | If you make it free, then everyone will choose the
               | fastest one.. which means it will no longer be faster. So
               | in order for time saving measures to work, you have to
               | require selectivity.
               | 
               | Paying is an easy way to select for those who value it
               | the most, which are the frequent fliers. If you're a
               | business traveler or otherwise someone who travels a lot,
               | the price is small compared to the flights and the time
               | saved is very large. That will be the inverse for those
               | who need it least, the infrequent travelers.
               | 
               | Yes some people who travel infrequently will choose to
               | pay for the faster line, but then they are also
               | subsidizing the extra cost of staff to run the other
               | systems.
               | 
               | The idea that this is meant to put tranches of society on
               | display is ludicrous.
               | 
               | Knowing a number of people who have to travel a lot for
               | work, I might even say that most of the poor shlubs in
               | the precheck lines who have to travel monthly or more
               | frequently are the real losers in the grand scheme.
               | Traveling in flying sardine cans to make a living is no
               | fun.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | >If you make it free, then everyone will choose the
               | fastest one.. which means it will no longer be faster. So
               | in order for time saving measures to work, you have to
               | require selectivity.
               | 
               | Or you can increase staffing.
               | 
               | > The idea that this is meant to put tranches of society
               | on display is ludicrous.
               | 
               | It may or may not be meant to put it on display, but it
               | shows it for what it is. People who can afford to pay to
               | save time get prioritized through public infrastructure,
               | and people that do not pay have to wait.
        
               | tough wrote:
               | The hyperfinancialization and commoditization of
               | everything is what gets you
        
               | hn_version_0023 wrote:
               | No. The _despair_ is what gets you. It only gets you once
               | you realize there are like a dozen people in the world
               | who are legitimately *free*.
               | 
               | The rest of us toil to make them happy. This unjust
               | system should be razed to the ground.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | "costs a lot to live this free" - the bad guy in wayne's
               | world
        
               | tough wrote:
               | Being _free_ sits more on the mind than the physical
               | world.
               | 
               | It is a state of mind, a man can be free on a jail.
               | 
               | I'd recommend a read to Marcus Aurelius Meditations if
               | you fancy that kinda thing.
               | 
               | Maybe the 8 billionaires you've in mind are less free in
               | their day to day to do whatever the fuck they want than
               | the billions of poor people that barely gets by and
               | survives.
               | 
               | how many rich man have you met which aren't happy?
        
               | yakubin wrote:
               | I can see why an emperor could want to try to convince
               | people that their lives are great, regardless of their
               | material conditions. No need to rebel. Nothing to see
               | here.
        
               | voldacar wrote:
               | Meditations was Marcus Aurelius' private journal. The
               | only person he was convincing was himself. And as he
               | governed during a period of relative stability and
               | prosperity, your cynical (and ignorant) remark about
               | "material conditions" makes no sense.
        
               | gochi wrote:
               | Meditations isn't good, and the advice that people should
               | read it before reading Discourses (Epictetus) is often
               | what creates a misleading view on stoicism as they never
               | get to Discourses because of the larger time commitment.
               | However it's this time commitment and patience that is at
               | the core of stoicism.
               | 
               | If you read Discourses, you would recognize your error in
               | believing that a man can be free in jail, for he does not
               | have the ability to choose where or how to exist, those
               | are both limited directly by the existence of the jail.
               | He can tolerate it, but not be free, as a stoic would
               | tolerate a broken arm rather than claiming the broken arm
               | makes them stronger.
        
               | tough wrote:
               | I see, I'm glad to stand corrected.
               | 
               | Will read Discourses.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | flangola7 wrote:
           | Have never heard it in this mass data angle though.
        
         | is_true wrote:
         | I usually select the unsubscribe option to get to someone
         | faster. Sometimes it works
        
           | achrono wrote:
           | I usually ask for sales. Always the fastest way to get hold
           | of _someone_.
           | 
           | Beyond that, sometimes it's begging that does it, sometimes
           | it's threatening. I've discovered that some companies appear
           | to have a rule where if a customer even utters something
           | along the lines of "I will sue you" they're just obligated to
           | escalate it without trying to waste your time -- bingo!
        
             | staticautomatic wrote:
             | The legal stuff works. I remember bickering with a Comcast
             | agent once, and after saying "you see, this contract is a
             | legally binding agreement between us..." I got escalated
             | right away.
        
       | shortcake27 wrote:
       | Good for him. Now it's time to make it illegal to gather and/or
       | sell personal information without explicit consent.
        
       | Mistletoe wrote:
       | The privacy Antichrist, I guess I should have known one must
       | exist somewhere.
        
         | Loggias wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | cobertos wrote:
       | I always wonder how this sort of data ends up escaping into the
       | wild en-masse. Everytime I've come up against wanting public
       | records they're not public by way of API public. They're always
       | public with no easy way to get at them yourself en-masse, and no
       | one is willing to write any code to get at them en-masse. Seems
       | like the big players have cornered it
       | 
       | Court records for instance
        
         | ProllyInfamous wrote:
         | >Court records for instance
         | 
         | I use neither email (for years now, a blessing!) nor have my
         | own phone number (VOIP outbound, only). Anything requiring
         | either gets a burner.email or my numeric pager.
         | 
         | A recent civil court action requested both of these obsolete
         | (to me) technologies, and the judge's clerk required that I
         | sign an attestation upon leaving them unanswerable.
         | 
         | Court records are public in my jurisdiction, and I choose to be
         | "unreachable."
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Regarding the linked-to article, a harrowing read (certainly)!
         | US citizens are allowed, by law, to request a FREE COPY of
         | everything LexusNexis has on them in their private consumer
         | file.
        
           | codazoda wrote:
           | I'd love to read more about your contact system if you've
           | written about it or care to. I'm mostly unavailable on the
           | phone except to people who are in my contact list (do not
           | disturb mode) but I wouldn't mind considering how to take it
           | a step farther.
        
           | cj wrote:
           | Re: lexusnexus, i wish they provided their data in a more
           | legible format. Last time i requested my data it was provided
           | in such a way where the data needed to be cross referenced
           | with a legend which itself needed to be cross referenced with
           | yet another table which made the whole data dump unreadable.
        
             | staticautomatic wrote:
             | As someone who used to broker Lexis data, lemme tell you,
             | you don't want what comes out of their API either.
        
         | cratermoon wrote:
         | "But the plans were on display..."
         | 
         | "On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find
         | them."
         | 
         | "That's the display department."
         | 
         | "With a flashlight."
         | 
         | "Ah, well, the lights had probably gone."
         | 
         | "So had the stairs."
         | 
         | "But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"
         | 
         | "Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom
         | of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a
         | sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard."
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | How to be happier: Add these to your /etc/hosts to prevent
       | gratitious anxiety                   127.0.0.1 nytimes.com
       | 127.0.0.1 wsj.com         127.0.0.1 washingtonpost.com
       | 127.0.0.1 cnn.com         127.0.0.1 foxnews.com
        
         | koheripbal wrote:
         | wsj.com is far far more balanced and thoughtful than these
         | other ones.
        
         | hollerith wrote:
         | On MacOS, you need 0.0.0.0 instead of 127.0.0.1 to block a site
         | in my experience.
        
           | plasticsoprano wrote:
           | In my experience that has never been the case and 127.0.0.1
           | works just fine.
        
             | hollerith wrote:
             | My experience of (127.0.0.1's failing to work) was about 7
             | to 10 years ago, and since 0.0.0.0 always continued to
             | work, I lost interest in whether 127.0.0.1 ever started
             | working again.
             | 
             | Based on your report, I plan to stop informing people about
             | the issue.
        
             | Jerrrry wrote:
             | https://www.google.com/search?q=loopback+ip+address
        
       | ds wrote:
       | A huge part of what we are building at https://redact.dev is a
       | unified software suite for managing all data about you and that
       | you created.. To date, that has mostly been data you create
       | yourself ( tweets, fb posts, discord DM's, emails, etc.. ) but
       | the bigger challenge is creating a simple interface that allows
       | people to manage all this data about you thats floating out there
       | that you DIDNT create.
       | 
       | Its not just data broker removals- Its alexa recordings, youtube
       | search history, your mailing preferences, and like 9999 other
       | things. Data brokers are just one part of it.
       | 
       | I enjoy the work we do but it also sucks having to do it. Each
       | endpoint is its own challenge and doing something as simple as
       | automating removal from one database can take days of a
       | developers time. It will be a beautiful day when this stuff gets
       | outlawed eventually.
        
       | jonas21 wrote:
       | The New York Times buys information from similar databases and
       | uses it to determine the articles that are recommended to you on
       | their site (among other things) [1]. Ironically, that may be the
       | reason the submitter saw this article in the first place.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.nytimes.com/privacy
        
       | envsubst wrote:
       | The credit card industry existed for decades before this.
        
         | EMCymatics wrote:
         | This is a far from new concept.
         | 
         | "figured out" is misleading. He just built upon existing
         | infrastructure.
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | I think making a product of the data itself is an innovation
         | 
         | But to follow your lead, credit ratings go back to the 1880s,
         | my favorite episode of "Backstory with the American History
         | Guys" covers the topic:
         | 
         | https://backstoryradio.org/shows/keeping-tabs-2016/
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | Acxiom started in the 1960's. They've been selling consumer
           | data ever since.
        
       | thedudeabides5 wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | giuliomagnifico wrote:
         | There shouldn't is the paywall, I sent it as a gift, try again
         | with this link:
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/magazine/hank-asher-data....
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | I assume HN automatically strips the query string from
           | submitted URLs, to deter things like tracking IDs and
           | referral links.
        
             | lightedman wrote:
             | Well, that gets annoying when the referral has the
             | identifier that allows people to read the article for free.
             | 
             | Perhaps the HN mods should act as actual editors instead of
             | mods. Slashdot does it - it works when the editors actually
             | pay attention. Let's see how closely HN's mods pay
             | attention.
        
               | tough wrote:
               | I assume this is automated away and might not be
               | recoverable by dang et al, I've thought many times about
               | making an archive bot for hn submissions, might go as
               | well as build it, it's weird that in this site full of
               | hacker no one has thought of it before, makes me think
               | it's prohibited or something but I don't really think so,
               | as archive links are generally permitted, maybe have a
               | bot spam every comment section isn't ideal tho
        
           | fuball63 wrote:
           | It works for me, thanks!
        
           | gnabgib wrote:
           | HN uses the canonical link (HTML -> HEAD -> Link=canonical)
           | to reconcile the "true" URL to help with dupe detection. You
           | can't submit a gift link since the canonical excludes that
           | code. (You can always comment the link though, thank you!)
        
           | kitten_mittens_ wrote:
           | Nytimes gift links only work for the first person that uses
           | it, I believe.
        
         | darkhorn wrote:
         | Click the reading mode in Firefox mobile.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ozan42 wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/uFN1R (without a paywall)
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-24 23:00 UTC)