[HN Gopher] Box jellyfish demonstrate learning ability
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       Box jellyfish demonstrate learning ability
        
       Author : mhb
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2023-09-23 18:28 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20230923200015/https://www.nytime...
       | 
       | https://archive.ph/vGJjh
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | I think centralizing learning into a brain is smarter, if you
       | pardon the pun. Retrieval becomes faster, which is adaptive, and
       | the body can protect it more easily if it is concentrated in one
       | area, which enables internal specialization. If you can't protect
       | the organ, the adaptive response is to make it redundant, rather
       | than specialized.
        
         | serf wrote:
         | >I think centralizing learning into a brain is smarter, if you
         | pardon the pun.
         | 
         | even we humans don't really do that entirely. the gestalt of
         | different nervous systems that interconnect between themselves
         | and our brain appear to be responsible for a significant
         | portion of the constellation of traits associated with
         | learning.
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | While box jellyfish are fairly simple creatures when compared to
       | mammals, I'm waiting for the inevitable study "announcing" that
       | animals have their own thoughts, dreams and emotions.
       | 
       | Something people who've been around animals will respond with
       | "duh".
        
         | PrimeMcFly wrote:
         | Not all animals are equal. While some have their own thoughts
         | and dreams, most don't.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | Edit: I clearly wasn't clear, this comment is focussing on the
         | question as applied specifically to box jellyfish, not animals
         | in general.
         | 
         | Emotions (at least the physiological part, not the qualia)
         | wouldn't surprise me at all even for the simplest of neural
         | structures. Might even be a pre-neural thing, given plants have
         | a transmissible chemical signal to make other nearby plants
         | more bitter in response to being eaten.
         | 
         | Dreams and thoughts?
         | 
         | I won't say "no", but I will say that if you can prove it, then
         | we probably have to start caring about the welfare of even very
         | small AI such as OCR systems made by second year university
         | students encountering MNIST and python for the first time.
        
           | justrealist wrote:
           | Not commenting on the ethical implications, but it's fairly
           | obvious that dogs dream. We could tell our dog was chasing
           | squirrels in his sleep by the running and yelping.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | interstice wrote:
           | Most mammals clearly dream, they even do the twitchy thing in
           | their sleep. Has no one done eeg studies or is that not
           | considered proof?
        
             | interstice wrote:
             | Just looked this up, all mammals and some birds experience
             | REM sleep
        
       | doctor_eval wrote:
       | Great, as if box jellyfish aren't bad enough, now it turns out
       | they can think, too.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bsima wrote:
       | Why is this shocking? Evolution itself is a learning system
        
         | aranchelk wrote:
         | Evolution is a process that blindly accumulates beneficial
         | mutations, that seems somewhat different from learning.
         | 
         | It's easy to prove that just because a process is driven by a
         | characteristic doesn't necessarily mean the output of that
         | process would also. Example: when I grocery shop while hungry,
         | that hunger may cause me to make irrational decisions, but the
         | collection of items I buy aren't themselves hungry.
        
           | argiopetech wrote:
           | Learning is the mostly blind accumulation of knowledge that
           | will hopefully be beneficial (and not detrimental to the
           | excess of that benefit, which is not a given) in the future.
           | Targeted study is the exception, even for humans.
           | 
           | This is also a somewhat better description of evolution than
           | yours because benefit in excess of detriment is not a
           | guarantee and the process is not blind (because animals breed
           | selectively).
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | I wonder how the mechanisms of learn and infer in box jellys can
       | inform designs of low energy narrow focus ML, like a toaster that
       | associates a specific person with a specific toastiness rather
       | than operating by time.
        
         | matrss wrote:
         | Honestly, it would be enough if toasters could operate by
         | "toastiness", instead of time, at all. We had that decades ago
         | and then just stopped, I guess?
         | 
         | I have watched too much Technology Connections...
         | 
         | /rant
        
       | dang wrote:
       | [stub for offtopicness]
        
         | cushpush wrote:
         | Brainless != distributed brain
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Ok, we've made the title less brainless above.
        
         | Bootvis wrote:
         | This has great possibilities for new and creative insults but
         | surely something is doing the learning and that can be
         | classified as a brain.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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