[HN Gopher] Mexican cartels are fifth-largest employers in the c...
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       Mexican cartels are fifth-largest employers in the country, study
       finds
        
       Author : kumarski
       Score  : 48 points
       Date   : 2023-09-21 19:09 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | Lol. And in an interesting symmetry, prisons are the largest
       | employers in many areas of the United States. The prison
       | industry, or "corrections" more broadly, probably breaks the top
       | five in _most_ US states.
        
         | stareatgoats wrote:
         | Lol yea! Come to think of it it might even be preferable to
         | have cartels replace law enforcement everywhere. Just think, no
         | restrictions on drugs of any kind, and if anyone makes a fuss,
         | just shoot them. Genius, sweet and simple.
         | 
         | edit: /s
        
         | fatfingerd wrote:
         | They also hire the same PR people..
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35096436
        
         | chucksta wrote:
         | >Organised crime groups in Mexico have about 175,000 members -
         | making them the fifth-biggest employer in the country,
         | according to new research published in the journal Science
         | 
         | Country in context is Mexico not US
        
           | sandworm101 wrote:
           | But the US is where most of the drugs go after mexico. It is
           | a multinational industry.
        
             | mminer237 wrote:
             | Drugs isn't even where the cartels make most of their money
             | anymore, is it? I was under the impression iron mining was
             | their #1 source of revenue nowadays with avocados, limes,
             | and logging also being big money-makers.
        
               | hiatus wrote:
               | Avocados are expensive sure but how can you beat
               | $24/gram? Trade risk of spoilage for risk of seizure.
        
         | proc0 wrote:
         | Would you rather have cartels or prisons?
        
         | beardog wrote:
         | If you look at the top employers for any given medium sized
         | town it will usually be school systems, a hospital, jail, and a
         | Walmart.
         | 
         | If you're lucky you also get a distribution center or meat
         | packing plant!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | darth_avocado wrote:
       | > The authors argue that the best way to reduce the bloodshed
       | would be to cut cartel recruitment
       | 
       | Okay, but how? The whole article goes on about reducing
       | recruitment, and how incarceration isn't the answer, but never
       | specified how do you reduce recruitment?
        
         | 6stringmerc wrote:
         | Based on my studies since things really kicked off in 2010 it
         | persists because of poverty mostly. Mostly rural places kind of
         | fighting similar turf battles they have for generations.
         | Alliances come and go.
         | 
         | The profit motive is real but honestly it doesn't trickle down
         | to the cannon fodder. Sometimes you can tell when they got shot
         | down by the authorities and then a gun was tossed next to their
         | body. Street gangs LA Chicago rural gangs in Michocan and old
         | traditional "we ain't changing shit" in Nectar Lima.
         | 
         | Fuel theft, extortion, prostitution...same old stuff really
         | just an environment and culture quite unique to outsiders.
         | Chino Antrax. Boats Blancas. The resting place for Z-3 El
         | Lazca...
        
       | ahzhou wrote:
       | I'm not even sure how Mexico manages to dig itself out. The only
       | way to root out the cartels seems to just hope that the US
       | figures out how to manage its drug market.
       | 
       | It's a pity - Mexico is so rich in culture but is just absolutely
       | crushed by the US's demand for drugs.
        
         | mminer237 wrote:
         | Honestly, I think the US could magically stop all drug imports
         | tomorrow and it would barely affect the cartels. They're
         | essentially just the government of Mexico and tax all
         | industries accordingly. They can get by fine off protection
         | money, iron, avocados, limes, etc.
        
         | nwienert wrote:
         | The US is a very rich country that is very close by, _of
         | course_ the drugs flow there. To single out the US is like
         | blaming trees for forest fires. They 're part of the the
         | problem, but it makes it seem like you just want an easy thing
         | to point a finger at, whereas the grim reality is that it's
         | complex and theres a ton of players and plans that'd need to go
         | into motion to ever improve things.
        
           | jonahbenton wrote:
           | A large contingent of the population that arrived on the soil
           | that is now the US did so to be predatory, to take advantage
           | of others. As a nation the US has long history of this, of
           | course slavery being the most notable, the extinction of the
           | natives a grim near second, but the more subtle history of
           | what are called con men is unique to the US, and different in
           | degree but not in substance. Drugs are just one further
           | example. Guns are related (to defend against predation). And
           | unfortunately like many other things in the US, this
           | predatory disease spreads.
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | This just seems like polishing your hobby horse rather than
             | responding to anything stated upstream in the convo.
             | 
             | So, Americans wanting drugs and Mexico being able to
             | provide them is related to or caused by an inherent
             | predatory trait that Americans have that's first
             | demonstrated by pioneers a few hundred years ago?
             | 
             | Or was it just an "America bad" interjection?
        
           | ahzhou wrote:
           | I agree it's complex.
           | 
           | I'm not blaming the US. Like most problems in the world, it's
           | a result of circumstance, not because there's a bad guy. It's
           | not like there's a magical solution to market forces applying
           | to drugs.
           | 
           | My point is more that the geopolitical reasons for the
           | cartel's existence means that Mexico has much less agency in
           | solving it than they would like.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | lp0_on_fire wrote:
         | The cartels are involved with things other than drugs, too.
         | It's also pretty laughable to think that even if the US "demand
         | for drugs" evaporated overnight the cartels would just throw up
         | their hands and say "guess we have to go legit now!".
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | This is the thing that all the "legalize it" guys don't get,
           | at all.
        
             | hyperliner wrote:
             | [dead]
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | What's the argument for that?
             | 
             | People have all sorts of reasons for wanting legalization
             | beyond disempowering drug cartels.
             | 
             | Like keeping people out of prison for nonviolent crimes,
             | building a culture of rehab over penalization, and creating
             | legitimate drug markets instead of dangerous black markets,
             | off the top of my head, that have nothing to do with
             | whether cartels having other lucrative enterprises beyond
             | drugs.
        
         | patrick451 wrote:
         | I don't think Mexico is _actually_ trying to root out the
         | cartels. The corruption, bribes and threats are more powerful
         | than Mexico 's will for rule of law. I don't disagree that U.S.
         | demand for drugs plays an enabling role here, but it's telling
         | that the cartels are based in Mexico and not within the U.S. A
         | cartel kingpin could eliminate a huge problem class by not
         | needing to get drugs across the border, but evidently that's
         | easier than evading the DEA on their home turf. Why does Mexico
         | not have an equally fear inspiring agency?
        
           | hyperliner wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | ahzhou wrote:
           | Mexico has been a victim of corruption since before it was a
           | nation. Its political system under the Spanish was designed
           | for efficient resource extraction and labor exploitation. Its
           | home-grown system in the 1930's was created for the
           | consolidation of political power and money to the winners of
           | it's revolution.
           | 
           | Combine this with the fact that the drug market in the US is
           | ~$150B, it's hardly surprising that the cartel pops up to
           | service the demand while joining hands with the corrupt
           | central government. Neither group cares about the people.
           | 
           | To begin to tackle it as you suggest, I think Mexico needs a
           | full blown revolution which somehow manages to resist the
           | billions of dollars the cartels are sitting on. It's not like
           | Mexican's aren't trying either - it's just that if they try
           | too hard, they get publicly executed.
           | 
           | Note that that herculean effort only addresses the supply
           | problem. The demand will still be there until the US controls
           | it's drug epidemic, which I don't think anyone knows how to
           | do.
           | 
           | As I mentioned above, I'm not assigning any blame. I think
           | both countries are in some kind of extremely shitty local
           | maxima where the problems are so difficult to solve that a
           | minority of people are able to profit and perpetuate the
           | status quo.
        
       | proc0 wrote:
       | Employer is an ironically sinister way of putting. Given their
       | infamy with brutality, I can't imagine how the "employees" are
       | treated.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-21 23:02 UTC)