[HN Gopher] Studio Ghibli set to become subsidiary of Nippon TV
___________________________________________________________________
Studio Ghibli set to become subsidiary of Nippon TV
Author : sohkamyung
Score : 516 points
Date : 2023-09-21 12:44 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.japantimes.co.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.japantimes.co.jp)
| zzzbra wrote:
| lol Hayao _hates_ his son...
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| [flagged]
| hotdogscout wrote:
| >No, Japanese are just not as greedy and arrogant as
| westerners (especially Americans)
|
| My family is japanese and having lived in a Japan as a child
| I'd say Japanese culture is a lot more greedy and arrogant
| than western culture, look at Japan's approach to sexuality
| (censor it), work (kill your individuality, nepotism).
|
| I think people unfairly criticize Americans because of their
| visibility.
|
| Miyazaki is an old fool full of reactionary opinions much
| like Roald Dahl. He's not a god, he's a movie director.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > Japan's approach to sexuality (censor it)
|
| IMO it's cover it, not really censor it.
|
| it's literally sold everywhere and published in countless
| magazines, I wouldn't call that "censorship".
|
| it's frankly just a style at this point and it's not
| different from what west does everyday with women bodies,
| they cover it just enough to profit from it.
|
| When Hokusai painted "the dream of the fisherman's wife"
| [1], in Europe we still had the Spanish inquisition that
| covered renaissance nude paintings and statues...
|
| In 1815 they summoned Goya for his "Naked Maja".
|
| These things always fluctuated throughout history
|
| We also know what happened to japan after the occupation by
| the allies
|
| _Not only did Occupation censorship forbid criticism of
| the United States or other Allied nations, but the mention
| of censorship itself was forbidden. This means, as Donald
| Keene observes, that for some producers of texts "the
| Occupation censorship was even more exasperating than
| Japanese military censorship had been because it insisted
| that all traces of censorship be concealed. This meant that
| articles had to be rewritten in full, rather than merely
| submitting XXs for the offending phrases"._
| --Dawn to the West, Donald Kleen
|
| [1] NSFW! https://m.media-
| amazon.com/images/I/61Uh6ydvJFL._AC_UF894,10...
|
| > kill your individuality, nepotism
|
| There's truth in there, but I also respect the way they
| always push themselves to improve their craftsmanship and
| be better than they were yesterday. Of course it's not
| perfect, it has dark sides and it's mostly incomprehensible
| to outsiders, just wanting to have a better life, without
| sacrificing too much. It resonates to me, it probably
| doesn't for most of the western culture that has become too
| hedonistic for my taste.
|
| But Miyazaki did not abuse of nepotist and he did not force
| his son to work as hard as he he did.
|
| Also, too much individualism is bad for society, USA has
| vastly more deaths at birth than Estonia, but at the same
| time they want to abolish abortion, on religious grounds,
| _in 2023!_ They still swear on the bible for fuck sake, I
| don 't think Miyazaki is the reactionary one here.
|
| > I think people unfairly criticize Americans because of
| their visibility.
|
| They are not more visible, they simply make themselves too
| visible.
|
| No Japanese ever done something like this in my Country.
|
| Because they are respectful or at least they fake it very
| well.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/08/us-tourist-
| sco...
|
| > Miyazaki is an old fool full of reactionary opinions much
| like Roald Dahl. He's not a god, he's a movie director.
|
| You said God, I said genius. Like Roald Dahl. They are
| geniuses, I admire their work, not their persona.
|
| BTW God is no genius, God, the god of the Jews and
| Christians at least, killed billions of people, he should
| be in jail for eternity!
|
| I would much more gladly move to Japan than to the US
| (where I lived) now that I am older.
| marricks wrote:
| I don't think so...?
|
| From the Nikkei article:
|
| > The older Miyazaki, 82, and Suzuki, 75, have been discussing
| the succession process for a long time, according to the two
| companies. Miyazaki's son had rejected the role, saying it was
| difficult to operate Ghibli alone and that the company's future
| would be better left to others. Nippon TV, with which Ghibli
| had deep ties, became the natural candidate.
| Macha wrote:
| My impression is both Miyazakis are conservative people even
| from the perspective of the already conservative Japanese
| culture of their generations. If it was known that Hayao did
| not want Goro to take over Ghibli, there's no way Goro would
| make public statements to the opposite regardless of his own
| opinion, even as someone in his 50s.
| marricks wrote:
| Perhaps, but Goro still has power and it clearly states he
| wanted this. If you have backstory to provide that'd help,
| otherwise it's just gossip.
|
| Additionally, conservative is loaded term it's not really
| helpful in getting across what they feel without additional
| description. They're possible _old school_ conservatives
| but even that probably comes across wrong as how they
| themselves would want to be described.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| I mean, based on Goro's movies, it's clear he just isn't
| as talented as a filmmaker as his father. Besides, Suzuki
| Toshio is the Tim Cook of Ghibli.
|
| I have no doubt that Goro wanted to be his father's
| successor (why would he have made multiple films under
| the Ghibli umbrella), but his father clearly recognizes
| that Ghibli has a potentially larger future than becoming
| a lesser studio under his son.
| bradleyishungry wrote:
| Poppy Hill is very good and comparable with Wind Rises.
| Just because Earthsea was bad, people view him as someone
| who is not up to the task. It's for sure fair to say he's
| not a good writer like his father, but he has the ability
| to make great films.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| please.
|
| his son is simply not good enough to replace him (them,
| including Takahata, actually).
|
| Let's be honest, dynasties are such an abhorrent thing that we
| should rejoice Studio Ghibli did not end as one.
| ZeWaka wrote:
| Not really, he's just not nearly as skilled as a director. The
| best of his prior films have been collabs.
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Exactly, they've all been rare missteps from Ghibli (but
| interesting as experimental works -- particularly Earwig and
| the Witch).
| 0ct4via wrote:
| NTV Press Release (JP):
| https://www.ntv.co.jp/info/pressrelease/docs/20230921.pdf
|
| Ghibli Press Release (JP): https://www.ghibli.jp/info/013778/
| Andrew018 wrote:
| [dead]
| belugacat wrote:
| Hayao Miyazaki, in the documentary "The Kingdom of Dreams and
| Madness" (2013):
|
| Interviewer: "Aren't you worried about [Studio Ghibli]'s future?"
|
| HM: "The future is clear. It's gonna fall apart. I can already
| see it. What's the use worrying? It's inevitable. "Ghibli" is
| just a random name I got from an airplane. It's only a name."
| [deleted]
| EGreg wrote:
| Ironically - the expression "studio ghibli" in Russian actually
| embodies that fate for the studio LOL
| astrod wrote:
| Sounds perfect, like the embodiment of the cherry blossom and
| its inevitability death after a beautiful short life.
| tmtvl wrote:
| Only to then be hit by Resurrection Butterfly, which looks
| scary as anything. It isn't quite as bad as it looks, though.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| It is even more evident that it is just a name if you consider
| that Nausicaa is not a Studio Ghibli film. It is the film that
| lead to the creation of the studio and my personal favorite,
| but technically, it wasn't part of it.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Nausicaa is by far one of the best films I've ever seen. That
| reminds me, I have a projector to hook up...
| kibwen wrote:
| Highly recommend the manga. Masterfully illustrated by
| Miyazaki himself, and the story is more complete than the
| film.
| bluerooibos wrote:
| What's also hilarious is his reaction to some creepy looking
| computer generated art/animation which for some reason they
| chose to make look like it had a disability.
|
| "I am utterly disgusted," he says. If you really want to make
| creepy stuff, you can go ahead and do it, but I would never
| wish to incorporate this technology into my work at all. I
| strongly feel that this is an insult to life itself."
|
| Worth a watch if you want a laugh -
| https://youtu.be/ngZ0K3lWKRc?si=JuIRf79ac5X3FogI
| fidotron wrote:
| Yep. This is near the better end of possible outcomes given at
| least they have a track record of respecting legacy and showing
| the value of archives.
|
| The idea that Ghibli as a major production concern would
| outlast Hayao Miyazaki was obvious nonsense, and you can almost
| feel the relief of Goro.
| hinkley wrote:
| There are adults now that grew up with Ghibli films. And not
| just from HBO playing an abridged Nausicaa on a loop as
| filler.
|
| Certainly Miyazaki has succeeded in keeping the wheels on
| long enough that there's a cadre of people out there that
| have a deep psychological investment in preserving the
| legacy.
|
| It won't be Miyazaki's Ghibli, but it could be something.
| sp332 wrote:
| LOL they abridged it?
| hinkley wrote:
| Oh yeah. They changed the tone a bit too. I don't think I
| can tell you the differences since it was at least 10-15
| years between Valley of the Wind going away and the
| rereleases.
|
| https://cinema.wisc.edu/blog/2016/09/06/when-nausicaa-
| became...
|
| Seems to cover it.
| jonhohle wrote:
| But why can't it be something else? Does the name matter
| apart from the creators?
|
| If I see Miyazaki on a poster, I'm going to be interested.
| There's been enough Ghibli without him that I know the
| studio isn't magic, it's him. Not saying the non-Miyazaki
| stuff is terrible, but certainly not the same quality.
| busterarm wrote:
| A large number of the fans, myself included, prefer Isao
| Takahata's work.
|
| Either way. It wasn't "him". It was "them". Their rivalry
| drew out their best work.
| the_af wrote:
| Agreed that Takahata was a master in his own right.
|
| Everybody knows about _Grave of the Fireflies_ , but a
| few years ago I discovered the more subdued _Only
| Yesterday_ and found it impressive. It stirred emotions,
| a true animated movie for adults.
|
| I also enjoyed _Princess Kaguya_ a lot. The art style
| alone is very different from Miyazaki 's style (which I
| love, of course).
| busterarm wrote:
| My Neighbors The Yamadas is always the first thing that I
| recommend to adults who have never seen anime before.
| gedy wrote:
| Only Yesterday was a lovely movie and really touching.
| (Would recommend it in Japanese with subtitles)
| hinkley wrote:
| Miyazaki is reportedly not a great father. They seem not
| to have connected yery well and as such the few things
| his son have done don't feel inspired by him. Actually
| they don't feel inspired at all.
|
| I don't think there will be a Ghibli analog to Farscape
| by Henson Productions - quite different in tone and story
| but still somehow just a bit similar to The Dark Crystal.
| emodendroket wrote:
| I don't know. How many people visited Disneyland this
| year?
| the_af wrote:
| I certainly don't want Ghibli to become Japan's
| Disneyland.
| mnky9800n wrote:
| Good news is Japan already has a Disneyland.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| They also already have a Ghibli Park. -\\_(tsu)_/-
| emodendroket wrote:
| There's always room for another.
| astrange wrote:
| Japan is actually relatively short on things to do
| considering how many tourists they get. There's some
| proposals to build another large theme park in Yokohama
| IIRC.
| ghaff wrote:
| Eh. Zero interest in theme parks. Maybe they would. Keep
| some population of tourists away from everything else
| though. I've spent a week just in zTokyo in the dog days
| of summer and have spent a bunch of time elsewhere in the
| country without going to Disney even being on my radar.
| emodendroket wrote:
| Yeah but there are lots of other tourists they want to
| attract with theme parks and water parks and if that
| means bulldozing some parts of Kyoto with more
| distinctive charms they'll do it.
| ghaff wrote:
| Tons of rural land no one wants to live in.
| emodendroket wrote:
| Too far from the airport.
| chemmail wrote:
| So where would one go where there are lots of things to
| do?
| dfxm12 wrote:
| You can spend 2 weeks in Japan during a holiday season
| where a bunch of stuff is closed and still completely
| fill your days with stuff to do.
|
| Source: I did just that this past New Year.
| astrange wrote:
| It's more of a problem for families with children.
| alexandre_m wrote:
| @dfxm12
|
| What did your itinerary look like?
| dwd wrote:
| TeamLab Borderless is a must see in Tokyo.
|
| Don't forget there's also a Ghibli Museum and you have to
| book in advance.
| StimDeck wrote:
| [dead]
| mark_up wrote:
| [dead]
| moomin wrote:
| I want to see more from Hiromasa Yonebayashi, though.
| tuna74 wrote:
| He is at Studio Ponoc
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_Ponoc) now.
| moomin wrote:
| Thankyou! I have stuff to check out.
| imachine1980_ wrote:
| i dont doubt they have bigger places trying to buy it but
| decide local company whit good track record.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Yes. I think this also comes less as a shock as the new
| generation of directors have a number of studios willing to
| give them a chance (including new studios beasically founded
| for a single director, or even single piece).
|
| Ghibli can stay an icon of a glorious past area, in good
| hands.
| HenryBemis wrote:
| "We'll Always Have Paris" is the phrase that came to my
| mind. If we are lucky, the Ghibli will be the empty shell
| holding the royalties/rights/etc of the Miyazaki (and
| other) produced movies.
|
| If we are unlucky, someone will use the brand name to start
| producing (en masse) garbage, selling it to Netflix, and
| Netflix will be pushing garbage low-quality, hi-speed
| cartoons.
| moomin wrote:
| Imagine if DC purchased it and started running plots with
| Lady Eboshi having a smackdown with Ozymandias.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > If we are unlucky, someone will use the brand name to
| start producing (en masse) garbage, selling it to
| Netflix, and Netflix will be pushing garbage low-quality,
| hi-speed cartoons.
|
| I would really hate to see the Ghibli version of "rings
| of power"
| ryandrake wrote:
| > I would really hate to see the Ghibli version of "rings
| of power"
|
| Then, don't see it.
|
| Fans need to stop enabling these awful reboots: by
| withholding their wallets. These IP vampires are only
| motivated by money, and if we give them money as a reward
| for milking past franchises, then they will continue to
| do it.
| smolder wrote:
| I agree in principle, but it can be difficult in practice
| to vote with your wallet.
|
| In the case of movies, once you have a ticket or purchase
| it or even rent it, they've got your money and have
| learned the lesson that people will pay, regardless of
| how you felt about what you watched or whether you intend
| to boycott future productions.
|
| In general, though, I do try to send the signal that I'm
| not personally a garbage dump for low effort content, by
| doing a few things:
|
| - No "guilty pleasure" watching of things that I'd prefer
| didn't exist, i.e. junk reality TV
|
| - Actively avoiding clicking on things that have
| clickbait titles, _especially_ if they 're part of an
| algo-feed
|
| - Read reviews / get reviews from friends first
|
| - If a streaming show is bad, stop watching ASAP.
| Stopping at episode 2/10 is a reliable signal for Netflix
| et al.
| nordsieck wrote:
| Yeah; I've come to the point where I don't really want to
| watch "fresh" content. There's so many great movies in
| the back catalog, I'll probably never run out of great
| stuff to watch.
|
| And if there's something great that's come out, I'll
| check it out after a couple of years when the reviews
| have settled down and all of the parts (I'm looking at
| you, Dune) have come out.
| tetris11 wrote:
| People don't vote with their wallets with clear minds
| though. People vote with half-asleep notions of what's
| good based on an onslaught of direct and viral marketing
| combo that threatens to ostracize them from their various
| social/support groups if they don't consume said product.
| No one has the time and energy to fight that on every
| front, nor has the know-how in every conceivable field to
| understand what is a lie and what isn't.
| Andrex wrote:
| Prime is subsidized by a million other things. Cancelling
| does not send a message, or rather, the message isn't
| nearly specific enough to be interpreted by Amazon as "we
| should make a better show and/or stop making this one."
|
| The entire feedback loop for the media industry has been
| perverted by tech companies and Venture Capital vampires,
| and it wasn't in a great place before.
| tetris11 wrote:
| There's a Steven Universe version of Superman right now,
| and as terrible as that sounds, its pretty good.
| bee_rider wrote:
| What's a Steven Universe of Superman mean?
|
| Animation style--eh, it changes, cartoons have been
| getting more stylized/less detailed since, like, the
| 80's. It turns out characters don't need a million belts
| and pockets to be compelling, haha.
|
| Theme-wise, Steven Universe is pretty well received.
| tetris11 wrote:
| Oh I agree, its just that Superman has always been
| painted as a wholesome softie only in contrast to his
| more brooding teammates (JLA, anything that DC has
| produced).
|
| Yet, here he is in a cutesy setting where rarely anyone
| is brooding, and somehow it just works. It even feels
| more true to his character, as the lightness of his
| personality and others is even more contrasted to the
| seriousness of the situations they face (similar
| thematically to old school Teen Titans perhaps), and also
| makes the argument that Earth influenced him for the
| better as a child much more compelling.
|
| The stakes are high, but goodness and strength of
| character prevails. Best animated version I've seen so
| far.
| autoexec wrote:
| I'll be calling it that from here on, so thanks for that,
| but I admit I was pleasantly surprised by how good it is.
| Studio Mir rarely disappoints in terms of quality
| (although I still think The Legend of Korra was their
| best work), but I really wasn't expecting the rest of the
| show to be worth watching.
| dwighttk wrote:
| Don't have to watch it... we'll always have the books...
|
| _maybe one day I'll forget watching the first third of
| The Hobbit in 3D_
| hx8 wrote:
| After Game of Thrones season 3 I've began ignoring film
| adaptations of books I enjoy. I think the risk of
| tarnishing my experience with a good book is much worse
| than any possible film enhancement I've experienced.
|
| The screenshots from Blade Runner 2 and Dune do look cool
| though.
| the_af wrote:
| > _The screenshots from Blade Runner 2 and Dune do look
| cool though._
|
| Good news about Dune! It's actually a good movie. It's
| both close to the book and makes the right calls in
| changing what needs to be changed for the big screen. It
| looks amazing, too. Give it a chance.
|
| Bad news about Blade Runner 2: it's not good. It looks
| good, but the movie is pointless and jarringly bad acted
| at times (Jared Leto, enough said). And I say this as
| someone who absolutely _loves_ Blade Runner, so I 'm not
| one of the naysayers who found it "boring". It's not
| boring -- it's bad and pointless. Someone here called it
| "fanfiction", and that's what it is: fanfiction by a very
| competent director who doesn't truly understand the
| source material.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Blade Runner 2 is basically .. fan fiction done by one of
| the best directors ever.
|
| The story is pointless. The movie aimless. The visuals
| and acting and directing absolutely _stunning_. As lovely
| as it was to _look_ at, I 'd just like my 3 hours back.
| The original movie was a somewhat campy but beautiful
| film-noir sci-fi detective thing that actually didn't
| take itself that seriously, despite being aesthetically
| quite serious. The new thing took itself _way way way too
| seriously_.
|
| But Dune 1 is amazing. Highly recommended, and I'm a deep
| Dune nerd (... but not the Brian Herbert crap, that's not
| Dune) for decades.
|
| It's not the "same" as the book -- it lacks a lot of
| what's there -- but it's _enough_ of the book and amazing
| in its own right that it 's absolutely worth the
| experience.
| hvis wrote:
| To be fair, the original Blade Runner was also basically
| fan fiction to the source material.
|
| The second one was too, and though it was quite different
| in tone, I liked both.
| ska wrote:
| Blade Runner is less of an adaptation and more of a
| "inspired by", I think. The book and the film(s) stand on
| their own just fine.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| A Scanner Darkly is probably the best PKD adaptation
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Blade Runner 2 was a great film. I think made slightly
| worse by its connections to the original. But I would
| recommend it. It's nice that it is far enough in the
| future that it is a different world concept and there is
| no inclination to care about the canon.
| the_af wrote:
| I'm a fan of Blade Runner and really disliked Blade
| Runner 2.
|
| To be honest, it didn't stand a chance with me: BR2 is a
| movie that didn't need to get made. Someone else in this
| thread called it "fanfiction", and that's what it is:
| technically very well made, but pointless fanfiction
| nonetheless.
|
| But if I had a slightly open mind about it, the inclusion
| of old Deckard, the chew-the-scenery overacting of Jared
| Leto (and actor that is always hard to like), and that
| ridiculous "I'm the best" Luv -- which is miles behind
| the marvelously inspired Roy Batty -- were the final nail
| (nails?) in the coffin of this trainwreck of a movie.
|
| The only saving graces are set design, K and the
| implications about Joi and her mass-produced but
| convincing displays of affection. The rest of the story
| is pointless and most of the characters are unlikable and
| badly acted.
|
| Again, no movie would have satisfied me. I think the very
| concept of a Blade Runner sequel is wrong and a mistake;
| but Hollywood must march on, I guess.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| Idk. I thought the hooker scene and the android test
| scene were phenomenal and interesting. If the first one
| asked if synthetic life could be human, this one seemed
| to argue that it's arguably inevitable if the beings are
| living real lives; and the ultimate meaningless of the
| distinction. I thought that was great.
|
| I agree Ford and Leto were distractions to the detriment
| of the film. Would have been fine as an independent
| original film and not blade runner although the
| reflections of the original did help highlight the
| themes.
| the_af wrote:
| The hooker scene did nothing for me, but the replicant
| alignment test was interesting. I think K was an
| interesting character.
|
| I do agree there were some good questions asked by the
| film (just not anything to do with Wallace's "vision" --
| boy did this ruin the movie for me!).
|
| > _Would have been fine as an independent original film
| and not blade runner_
|
| Yes. I would have received this way better had it been an
| original film with echoes of Blade Runner (so I would
| have been spared, for example, the ridiculous execution
| of clone-Rachael) instead of an official sequel.
|
| I can accept "I'm a director who admires Blade Runner and
| want to do a film that is a homage to it", but cannot
| accept "I want to do Blade Runner 2".
|
| For the record, I think Villeneuve is a good director and
| also think this was a genuine attempt at doing something
| good. It just happens that it was a bad idea, doomed to
| fail.
| nordsieck wrote:
| Sequels are particularly tough to pull off.
|
| Aliens and Terminator 2 are beloved by fans, but most
| sequels seem to be either overt cash grabs, or a director
| trying and failing to recapture what made the first movie
| special.
|
| > Again, no movie would have satisfied me. I think the
| very concept of a Blade Runner sequel is wrong and a
| mistake; but Hollywood must march on, I guess.
|
| I hope out hope that a very special directory/writer team
| could pull off something wonderful, but in practice
| you're probably right.
| aftbit wrote:
| I only read the first Dune book, but I feel like the
| recent-ish movie did a pretty good job following what
| happened in the book.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| The third Dune book (arguably the second) actually
| illustrates this general point about decline as well. Run
| screaming from the subsequent books
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| No, not run scremaing! God Emperor and beyond are
| awesome. But they're not the same thing, no. They're far
| more philosophical, and kind of about something else.
|
| The Brian Herbert books are very bad.
| yongjik wrote:
| I think the second and the third was okay, but the fourth
| was... hmm maybe "decline" is not the right word, it was
| as if I walked into my favorite coffee shop and they
| decided to drop a bunch of bricks and PVC pipes on my
| laps because that's what they do now. (Can't talk about
| later books - I kinda stopped there and never picked up
| again. Maybe I should.)
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| God Emperor is a slog, but sets the groundwork for
| Heretics and Chapterhouse, and they're in my opinion very
| good. I've re-read Chapterhouse more than any of the
| others.
|
| But I think he meant for there to be a final one to
| follow it, and so it closes off somewhat
| unsatisfactorily.
| dwighttk wrote:
| I always tell people to read the first one and stop or
| grit your teeth and read all of them...
|
| (Possible spoiler:)
|
| I was a little surprised in my last read through how
| small a part Duncan Idaho played until I got to the
| second book and remembered
| toast0 wrote:
| IMHO, Denis Villeneuve (and the rest of the crew) did a
| wonderful job with the visuals in Dune; there's some
| aspects of it I don't care for, but it definitely looks
| cool. But then again, I also think David Lynch (and the
| rest of the crew) did a wonderful job with the visuals in
| Dune, although somethings were a bit over the top; OTOH,
| I first watched this one when I was like 10 and got
| sucked in, so I'm not unbiased. I think both films did a
| great job of practical shooting that will continue to
| look good well into the future unlike a lot of recent
| films that are a lot of short takes in front of a green
| screen ( _cough_ Star Wars after the first two; most of
| Marvel _cough_ ). I'm looking forward to Dune: Part 2
| this year, even if I'm pretty sure I'll dislike the same
| things I dislike from Dune: Part 1, because the visuals
| are likely to be going to be wonderful.
|
| The SciFi channel had zero budget and it showed; but I
| think they stuck to the book a lot better; but I don't
| think I'll ever rewatch them, because the visuals are so
| bad.
|
| Anyway --- we can always treat adaptations as inspired by
| rather than based on. I, Robot is a fun action film that
| name drops the three laws, but is otherwise unconnected
| to the book. The song retains the name, as they say.
| dwighttk wrote:
| (Dune has been delayed to early next year)
| teawrecks wrote:
| Waiting for them to train an AI on Miyazaki's art/writing
| style and pump out a bunch of junk.
| xwdv wrote:
| Who cares? The past has happened, and nobody can change
| it, nobody can go back and unmake those movies we saw.
| Nobody can take the memories away.
|
| The point is it doesn't matter anymore. Someone can take
| the name and make mass produced garbage, you don't have
| to watch it. Ghibli doesn't mean anything. Let it go.
| People care too much about keeping everything exactly the
| same.
| MangoCoffee wrote:
| >Someone can take the name and make mass produced garbage
|
| This hit hard. Disney bought Lucasfilm. Look at Indiana
| Jones 5, I don't think anyone ask for it, but Disney made
| it and it's a major flop.
| [deleted]
| mcpackieh wrote:
| I agree, but it seems like many people are incapable of
| thinking this way. See the number of people who say that
| new star wars ruined old star wars, "ruined their
| childhood" even. How? How can a new movie ruin an old
| movie? Causality does not work in that direction. But
| some people think it does and the illogicality of their
| position doesn't change the fact of how they genuinely
| feel.
| autoexec wrote:
| > How? How can a new movie ruin an old movie?
|
| I think it must be kind of like desecrating a corpse.
| Maybe watching someone dig up and do something prolonged
| and unthinkable to the body of your dead grandmother
| can't undo all the lovely years you had together, but if
| witnessing that act enraged you, you might find that
| suddenly every time you see her photo or visit her grave
| you're reminded of what you saw and that it upsets you
| all over again.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Not saying I fully buy it but I think the fans' point is
| that what Disney is doing to Star Wars today is
| _diminishing the entirety of Star Wars_ , the average of
| past + present. Every new Transformers or Indiana Jones
| or Ice Age makes the overall work worse, regardless of
| whether you even see it.
| toast0 wrote:
| > I think the fans' point is that what Disney is doing to
| Star Wars today is diminishing the entirety of Star Wars,
| the average of past + present
|
| Lucas was at the helm for Return of the Jedi, Star Tours,
| and the three prequels. I think we can't lay the blame
| for the Holiday Special on him, but that certainly
| happened too. There's the Ewok tv movies too, which
| thankfully I've never seen.
|
| Even if all the Disney Star Wars films are crap, they're
| just continuing the trend. I prefer to simply believe
| there are two Star Wars films, and let others believe
| what they want to believe.
| [deleted]
| mcphage wrote:
| > I think the fans' point is that what Disney is doing to
| Star Wars today is diminishing the entirety of Star Wars
|
| They may believe that, but it's not true.
| bee_rider wrote:
| I think it is not just diluting the quality to get a
| worse average. Fiction often involves the audience
| filling in the gaps: Someone drops a hint that characters
| have known each other a long time; you can imagine that
| as you'd like. In the end, you get "and they lived
| happily ever after," you decide what "happily ever after"
| looks like.
|
| Sequels and prequels need to add more drama and action,
| so happily ever after never ends up being all that happy.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Andor is well worth a watch though
| morelisp wrote:
| Narrative causality _does_ work that way; a later-made
| prequel can ruin a story element that was fine in an
| earlier-made sequel. This is infohazards 101.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| Prometheus would be an example of that
| omoikane wrote:
| Maybe it's because they re-released modified versions of
| the original Star Wars trilogy[1]. Although timing wise,
| some of the re-releases happened before the Star Wars
| prequels, including the "Han shot first" controversy[2].
| Some people's childhood might be ruined by the
| altercations, but it seems unfair that the new Star Wars
| are fully to blame.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changes_in_Star_Wars_re-
| releas...
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_shot_first
| bee_rider wrote:
| People who claim a new movie ruined their childhood are
| just being over-dramatic, are using it as a shorthand for
| it destroyed a thing _from_ their childhood, or both.
|
| I do think, though, that sequel can make a story worse
| pretty easily. For example, the combined story of the
| Star Wars sequels, prequels, and originals is simply
| worse than the originals alone. When you just watched the
| originals, you could imagine your own Clone Wars, they
| could be whatever cool thing you want. Dropping neat-
| sounding hints and letting the audience fill in the gaps
| with whatever cool thing they imagine is a classic
| storytelling technique get a free feeling of depth.
| Replacing that cool thing the audience imagined with
| trade negotiations makes the story worse.
|
| Similarly, character arcs are a thing. The protagonists
| usually win and end up in a happy place, at least in a
| non-grimdark universe like Star Wars. Making a sequel
| that says: Actually Luke Skywalker spent the rest of his
| life failing and ended up as a miserable old grump makes
| his story arc worse.
|
| You can just watch the original movies and ignore the
| rest of course, it is after all fiction so getting the
| whole story doesn't _really_ matter. But these are huge
| releases that get lots of press, and I think it is
| unrealistic to expect fans to just ignore them.
| mcpackieh wrote:
| Maybe I'm making too much of it, perhaps it's just the
| modern style to use hyperbolic rhetoric in movie reviews.
|
| But for new movies to make old movies worse used to be an
| uncommon attitude I think. I remember in the 90s and 00s,
| lots of movies had really shitty sequels, often straight
| to DVD, but nobody talked about these cash grabs ruining
| the original movie. For instance Aliens 3, Alien
| Resurrection and then all the AvP crap... some people
| like these (I think Aliens 3 is defensible FWIW) but a
| lot of people really don't. Still, nobody talks about
| Alien or Aliens (e.g. 1 & 2) being ruined by the later
| movies. Aliens 3 is frequently criticized for the way it
| killed well-liked characters from Aliens, but that
| doesn't stop people from still enjoying Aliens. People
| just choose to ignore Aliens 3. And why shouldn't they,
| because Aliens 3 is canon? That's just a legal IP
| relationship, that doesn't matter.
|
| And Disney has dozens of straight-to-vhs/dvd cashgrab
| sequels of their classic animated movies, people who
| don't care for them just ignore them and they aren't said
| to ruin the originals. There used to be a general
| understanding that sequels are very rarely good, people
| were pleasantly surprised when it was otherwise and
| nobody said their life was ruined by a bad sequel.
| Because who cares about cannon in animated disney movies?
|
| I've seen Lucas's Clone Wars, but if I watch the original
| Star Wars I'm not compelled to relate it to the Clone
| Wars movie. By simply choosing to ignore it because I
| don't like it, I free myself to imagine my own clone
| wars.
|
| I think new movies ruining the originals is some
| relatively recent cultural phenomena that was brought on
| by internet culture's obsession with canon. The existence
| of popular sites like wookiepedia both evidence it and
| drive it. If I'm wrong and it's not an overabundance of
| respect for IP laws that is the root of this, then why
| isn't bad fanfic also said to ruin the original?
| lancesells wrote:
| I think some of the reason for the strong reaction is
| Star Wars is for kids while Aliens is not. There are a
| lot of people who were in an age of innocence when they
| watched Star Wars and it gets them upset if the new
| movies aren't entertaining to them as adults. Even if you
| did watch Aliens as a kid it's a horror movie in space
| with a giant bug in the shadows making it a lot less
| relatable.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Of course, it is fiction, so if you want to have your own
| version of the story and cut off the bad parts, that's
| definitely not hurting anyone.
|
| Nowadays studios really lean into the idea of
| establishing an expanded universe and canon, since then
| it becomes a recurring revenue stream and all that. So, I
| wonder if this is an aspect of that trend, just a
| different way people tell stories and, as a result,
| consume them.
|
| I think people ignore 90's disney cash grab sequels
| mostly because they were so garbage that they didn't get
| integrated into the cultural zeitgeist (and also, people
| who loved Lion King when it came out were too old to care
| about the sequel).
|
| Stuff like the Star Wars prequels is not quite at that
| level of badness, might be marketed toward everyone, so
| it enters the general conversation about the movies. Of
| course, it is possible to not engage in that stuff, but
| then, I guess people who are talking about Star Wars in
| 2023 are interested in the whole thing, right? You can
| only think about 3 movies for so long, haha. So, I bet
| lots of people saw them movies, have fond memories, and
| then moved on, but they aren't talking about it anymore.
| rightbyte wrote:
| > How? How can a new movie ruin an old movie?
|
| It is the age old problem of recognizing the canon.
| reso wrote:
| Spirited Away 2: Rise of the Bathhouse
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Probably a bit of a double-edged sword because frankly Hayao
| does not seem to care for Goro all that much.
| the_af wrote:
| I'm not sure I understand... this news indicates that Goro
| will _not_ be leading Ghibli. So what would be the double-
| edged sword?
| Mistletoe wrote:
| I'm also confused, does he not like his own son?
| jd3 wrote:
| He was a self-described absentee father, stated that
| being around his son made him anxious, dissuaded Goro
| from getting into animation, and was critical and
| generally unsupportive of the three films that Goro
| directed.
|
| Goro even stated that he only got to know his father
| through his films since Hayao was never around.
|
| Goro was raised by his mother, who quit pursuing her
| dream of working as an animator in order to raise him.
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| Goros films to be fair were pretty bad. Tales from the
| earth sea in particular is shockingly bad.
| rkuykendall-com wrote:
| From Up on Poppy Hill is actually my favorite. But I
| haven't seen his others.
| elmomle wrote:
| That one was still (co-)written by Hayao, and the writing
| / story composition is definitely what makes that film so
| strong.
| hotdogscout wrote:
| Kokuriko-zaka Kara was really good though. Better than
| Miyazaki's earlier work (Sherlock Hound, Conan, Lupin). I
| find them very simple and mediocre compared to anything
| of that time or even 60's anime like 009.
| Aeolun wrote:
| I didn't really have issues with it. It certainly wasn't
| stellar, but at least solidly average.
| mandmandam wrote:
| I liked it, as a huge Le Guin fan. It wasn't quite Ghibli
| level, but it wasn't _that_ far off. It got the heart
| right, and it was a lot better than the average movie
| imo.
|
| Adapting books to film is really, really hard, as is
| animating, and directing, etc.
|
| Le Guin was critical of the movie, for valid reasons, but
| I don't think she hated it. Which, being fair, is an
| accomplishment.
| [deleted]
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > does he not like his own son?
|
| in what way is it any of our business?
|
| in what way what a father does or doesn't leave to his
| son can be used to determine how much he loves or doesn't
| love him?
|
| Goro is a 56 years old man, he's beyond middle age, he
| lived more than half of his life already, why are you
| treating him like a small defenseless child?
| Mistletoe wrote:
| You seem a little too close to this haha. I know nothing
| of their history I'm just asking a simple innocent
| question. Yes I think it would be odd for someone to not
| like their own son.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| a lot of people do not understand how the Japanese
| culture works and they assume that helicopter parents are
| the best of the best, but it's just US distorted
| parenting percolating, it has nothing to do with what's
| right or wrong.
|
| If I created something and I wanted that thing to die
| with me, the love for my children wouldn't in any way
| stop me.
|
| Legacy and honor are much more important than nepotism
| for some.
|
| Also, he's saving Goro from being "the son of Miyazaki
| that was never good as the father" forever.
|
| He's Goro. He's a different person. He made his own
| choices regardless of who the father is and owes him
| nothing.
|
| That's a gift if you ask me.
| dylan604 wrote:
| And then there's the story of Jiro, the Japanese sushi
| maker that was so highly praised, but it turned out that
| it was his oldest son that was actually making the sushi.
|
| Anecdotes of 1 are meaningless other than fun stories to
| share.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| That's a good one.
|
| I've never been a Jiro fan though, there are many sushi
| makers in japan that can be considered artists in their
| craft, but their cultural impact is mehh at best.
|
| Studio Ghibli, both Miyazaki and Takahata, on the other
| hand...
| dylan604 wrote:
| I guess? There was a time where Jiro's restaurant was
| booked months in advance (as many uber famous locations
| can be), and had people traveling internationally just to
| eat there. That's a pretty big cultural impact whether
| it's your cup of tea or not. There's other people that
| shrug their shoulders at the Studio Ghibli content. I
| recognize their work as being very good, but I'm not a
| "fan". It's not my cup of tea, but I'm not going to claim
| it as being meh at best. I can recognize talent even if I
| don't like it.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| the double-edged sword is the relief of not having to run
| the studio, but the disappointment that you don't meet
| your father's expectations
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > because frankly Hayao does not seem to care for Goro all
| that much
|
| or maybe he thinks that Ghibli should not survive him,
| which is in his full rights.
|
| Goro can open his own studio if he wants to.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| sure maybe that too, but he's panned Goro's work very
| publicly on multiple occasions
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| I don't really (honestly) understand this critique.
|
| What's wrong in being honest?
|
| Goro works are clearly inferior to his father's works on
| many levels.
|
| He's no amateur, that's for sure, but he's no master
| either.
|
| Among the best Japanese animation artists, he's probably
| average.
|
| He's no Takahata, Oshii, Otomo, Anno, Watanabe, Hosoda by
| a long shot.
|
| Hayao worst rated works on Rotten Tomatoes are "The cat
| returns" and "The wind rises" and I completely agree on
| that, with a rating of 88%.
|
| Goro worst is "Earwig and the Witch" that I have not
| watched with a 28%, "Tales From Earthsea" that I've seen
| and did not like much with 38% and the best is "From Up
| on Poppy Hill" with 87%, which was good, but not
| "Spirited Away", "Princess Mononoke" or "Nausicaa of the
| Valley of the Wind" good.
|
| And Nausicaa itself is not as good as a movie as the
| manga, that is an order of magnitude better!
|
| Have you ever read or heard about the 3 Wolfgang Amadeus
| Mozart children that survived?
|
| No?
|
| You are not the only one.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| It's just the way it was done, unsympathetically, in
| front of the whole world. I wouldn't do that to an
| employee, let alone my own child.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| That doesn't make Hayao a bad person.
|
| I see him as a concerned father.
|
| "Don't put yourself in the position of being judged in
| the very competitive field of Japanese animation, because
| your works are not as great as you think they are"
|
| It's like being the son of Michelangelo.
|
| Of course everyone of us tells kids that their terrible
| drawings are sooooo goooood, but they are terrible.
|
| Now, Goro was already 40 years old when his first movie
| came out.
| Shugarl wrote:
| Isn't that a false dichotomy? I think there's more
| possibilities than either walking out of the theater in
| the middle of your son's first movie and tell to the
| press how he's still far from being ready to make films,
| or treating your son like a 5 year old.
| omneity wrote:
| The beauty of impermanence, masterfully illustrated.
|
| Rest in peace mr. Miyazaki and thank you for making the world a
| better place with your stories.
| garg wrote:
| Mr Miyazaki is alive and well.
| omneity wrote:
| Hah, my bad. I guess I confused with something else.
| Apologies Mr. Miyazaki and wishing you a long and fruitful
| life! :D
| wodenokoto wrote:
| Thank you for the quote. I think I've commented before
| something to the point of "what's left for Ghibli?" Their most
| promising young directors left to start their own studio, Goro
| Miyazaki has his good and bad movies, but doesn't look like the
| strength to carry on the legacy on his own. And then what?
|
| Well, nothing. The buck ends with Miyazaki and maybe that is
| okay.
|
| Ghibli has managed to produce movies with an unrivaled charm,
| but that is not to say other directors don't make absolutely
| amazing animated movies in Japan.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| It's already unusual that a small movie studio has survived
| this long
| amelius wrote:
| > The future is clear. It's gonna fall apart. I can already see
| it.
|
| I wonder how he thinks of the future of animation now, after
| the introduction of StableDiffusion and others.
| lairv wrote:
| https://youtu.be/7EvnKYOuvWo?si=KjIPP5LtZvab_Ls5
|
| Well he didn't seem very fond of it even before it was
| created
| dylan604 wrote:
| I loved this clip when I first saw it, and it's even more
| pertinent now to me, as it reinforces my own sentiments to
| what I'm seeing with AI generative imagery. Those guys at
| the end that are the ones clearly involved in making
| whatever that was, and are now just like WTF do we say now?
| You could just see them trying to pivot right then and
| there after that feedback. "It's something we'd never show
| in public" Then why are you showing it in this
| presentation? "what is your end goal" "We'd like a machine
| to paint like a human" And that animation was an example of
| that goal?
| perihelions wrote:
| That's disturbingly brutal for a professional interaction.
| I wouldn't want to work in an office where that's a thing
| that happens-whether it happens to me or watching it happen
| to someone else.
|
| ("Then you would never get to work for a genius like the
| great Miyazaki, haha!" Sure, I understand that. That isn't
| a novel observation: he's far from the only celebrity
| genius in the world who gets away with abusing their
| underlings, who's so great and amazing that people are
| willing to turn a blind eye to their personality issues.
| They say "never meet your heroes").
| yakubin wrote:
| I watched the video and the only brutality I saw was the
| animation.
| debacle wrote:
| Respectfully, I've sat in meetings with 100s of VCs and
| most of them were far more "disturbingly brutal" than
| this.
|
| There are serious people and unserious people.
| michaelt wrote:
| They show him a 3D rendered animation of a deformed
| humanoid struggling to move on the floor. Looks like
| something out of a zombie horror PC game.
|
| They say it has no sense of pain, and that it's a horror
| beyond human imagination.
|
| Miyazaki says whoever made it gives no thought to pain,
| and it's very unpleasant.
|
| That just seems like he was repeating back pretty much
| what they said to him?
|
| Also, I'm not familiar with Miyazaki's entire oeuvre, but
| he doesn't seem to be into zombie horror, or 3D? So kinda
| understandable that he wouldn't be interested in adopting
| a product where their number 1 demo was zombie horror.
| class4behavior wrote:
| You need first to understand a perspective before you
| judge it. That's what cultural difference is and a lot of
| it is at play here. Good or bad, this is a different
| style of life. Not to mention that it is not unusual for
| executives or board members to have their personal
| priorities, especially in the art industry.
|
| But, even in that context, they did a horrible
| presentation. At least from this clip they appear like
| full-blown nerds with low EQ who didn't consider what
| kind of person their senior they will present this to is
| like. Any fan could have told them HM wouldn't like the
| animation and it would not reveal what DL can do.
| [deleted]
| caust1c wrote:
| Wow, thanks for sharing. Last line of that clip hits hard
| :(
| im3w1l wrote:
| His comments seem to be more about the subject matter than
| the technique they used.
| morelisp wrote:
| Except it's also telling that this is the subject matter
| they thought worth relating to him. "Look, isn't it
| amazing what we made the computer do?" To which
| Miyazaki's reply is to (correctly) probe the content for
| meaning, not materiality. He's not objecting to horror or
| disgusting things per se, but pointing out there's no
| point without the humanist part as well. Their project is
| ultimately artless, regardless of topic, and they pick
| this to show him because they're too dumb to see that in
| the first place. It's a blatant transposition of
| solutionism into the realm of aesthetics - they are
| enamored with their magic box but have nothing to
| actually say.
| lairv wrote:
| The "insult to life itself" indeed refers to the
| particular demo that they showed this day, but they also
| mention multiple times they want to make "computers that
| paint like humans" and HM doesn't show much more
| enthusiasm
| frozenlettuce wrote:
| I find it amusing given that in Princess Mononoke one of
| the villians loses an arm - does he sees that a punishment?
| Does he think that a bad person deserves that? Wasn't it
| also "disrescpectful" to his disabled friend? IMO that is
| just people making-up emotional arguments to trash the
| younger generation to keep them in control.
| morelisp wrote:
| What a profound misreading of both his comments on the
| animation and Princess Mononoke.
| kbelder wrote:
| Villain? Watch it again.
| hotdogscout wrote:
| >that is just people making-up emotional arguments to
| trash the younger generation to keep them in control.
|
| I think Miyazaki's just an old conservative emotional
| man. He probably doesn't think very hard or rationally
| about his taste.
| [deleted]
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > does he sees that a punishment?
|
| No, that's what happens in nature when two different
| worlds collide. And you accept it, like Lady Eboshi does.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I just realized that very few at global context had gone
| through the "insult to life" and crying Kawango meme moment
| before GenAI came out. That was a giant spoiler in
| hindsight, and tells how long forward Miyazaki just is in
| animation(and how horrible he is as an individual)
| bowsamic wrote:
| They cut out the more brutal parts of his response
| Hamuko wrote:
| An insult to life itself.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngZ0K3lWKRc
| atentaten wrote:
| Why would they present that type of animation to show CGI
| capabilities when they could have presented something more
| positive?
| anononaut wrote:
| I always thought this was a disingenuous moment to bring up
| when discussing the topic in recent times. Your linked
| video clearly shows what he was looking at -- how is that
| remotely similar to anything like Dall-E or Midjourney?
| Miyazaki would love Stable Diffusion. His statement does
| not at all summarize his stance on AI generated animation
| because he saw an ugly, miserable representation of what it
| can do. Timelines regardless. It gets me worked up.
| aeturnum wrote:
| > _how is that remotely similar to anything like Dall-E
| or Midjourney?_
|
| Miyazaki did not say "I love this tech but it doesn't
| look good enough yet."
|
| He actually doesn't comment on the quality of the
| animation at all. His comments are entirely focused on
| how he feels the technique lacks a human-ness that he
| thinks is important to art. An early effort you would
| like to see improved does not "disgust" you or make you
| feel the creators are "insult[ing] life itself."
|
| Of course he could change his mind, but if you don't
| think his comments reflect a belief at that moment in
| time about machines creating art, I do not believe you've
| understood what he is saying.
| [deleted]
| EatingWithForks wrote:
| I think you misunderstand the joy and pride that is an
| animator, which is in the nuances of the actual creation
| process which Stable Diffusion removes. We can also
| compare this to western shows like Arcane, where despite
| 3d modeling the shading and lighting was done by hand, to
| immense pride of the animators.
|
| The problem with AI has been always that it removes from
| the artist the act the artist finds joy in, the work to
| create a beautiful final product, and leaves only the
| most boring and meh parts: contract negotiation, right
| fights, pay and attribution concerns, etc.
| whymauri wrote:
| >Miyazaki would love Stable Diffusion.
|
| You don't know that.
| nemothekid wrote:
| > _Miyazaki would love Stable Diffusion_
|
| Not sure how you could confidently say this. Given that
| most artists and animators already have a disdain for
| generative AI, it's difficult to believe that the guy
| most unenthused about technology would love Stable
| Diffusion. The guy didn't even like CGI.
| gabereiser wrote:
| The value is not in the ability to make stories, it's now the
| aesthetic of "Ghibli" they covet. It's unique style of art that
| told the greatest stories in a way that was relatable to
| children and adults alike.
|
| Knowing it will end, knowing one's own impermanence, is the
| mark of a true master. sayounara
| bitwize wrote:
| I've felt the same way about Gainax, from whom all the good
| original people departed, forming splinter studios while
| Gainax's "loose management" ran it into the ground. These days
| the company is known for tax fraud and embezzlement in its
| history, as well as sexual misconduct against a minor committed
| by its president. But Evangelion is a Studio Khara (Hideaki
| Anno's studio) property now, so it's safe.
| kridsdale3 wrote:
| > sexual misconduct against a minor
|
| I thought that Japan had some of the most permissive laws in
| the world for that. (I'm making no moral judgement, only
| legal)
|
| If what happened was a violation of even that, then Jesus. (I
| have not looked up this incident at all)
| bitwize wrote:
| Yeah, Japan is starting to crack down on that now. And
| because nude photos were involved, child pornography laws
| could be invoked anyway.
| foxyv wrote:
| Nothing gold can stay.
| darklycan51 wrote:
| I don't think there is any director in Japan right now capable of
| directing Ghibli level movies, by that I mean movies that are
| pure of heart, but interesting enough that you like them, all or
| at least the vast vast majority.
|
| It's no secret that 2d animation is very expensive and taxing,
| and if you make failed movies you risk a studio like Ghibli.
|
| Both Yasuhiro Yoshiura and Mamoru hosoda come to mind as
| directors that could direct films like that if required, but I
| don't know how consistent they would be if directing constant
| movies like it.
|
| Regarding Makoto Shinkai I think his movies are a bit too
| sadistic, or at least his mentality to be do Ghibli films,
| directing tragic/NTR movies when he was happily married to an
| audience of mostly shutins always came to me a bit sadistic, even
| though his movies are visually beautiful I don't think he matches
| the style.
| astrange wrote:
| Shinkai makes the same movie every time[1], but for his last
| one he actually wanted to make a yuri movie and the producers
| made him instead do the same movie over again, which is why the
| boyfriend gets turned into a chair and it becomes a women's
| road trip for some of it.
|
| [1] incel guy meets a girl once, he can never see her again
| because she's on another planet/in a coma/in the past/in
| Tochigi, he spends the rest of his life being sad about it even
| though they weren't in an actual relationship
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| All of the directors you mentioned rely heavily on CG effects
| and tons of digital layering for their films... there really is
| no other Studio Ghibli at the moment for feature animation.
|
| There are some French films that over the years have had that
| touch, but they often lack the narrative component which make
| Ghibli films magical.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| HN is consistently stretching the definition of "anything that
| gratifies one's intellectual curiosity"
| dang wrote:
| Stretching is probably good, no? That's part of curiosity.
|
| It's impossible to gratify all curiosities equally because
| people differ a lot. That means there will always be something
| on the front page that you don't find interesting, but also
| hopefully several things you do.
|
| It's true that the better "stretches" have to do with topics
| that are little-known and little-discussed, and Ghibli and
| Miyazaki aren't that.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| > Stretching is probably good, no?
|
| I don't believe so, HN should be a place where people talk
| about tech and academia.
|
| Once you expand the scope, it says "this is what this group
| of people by majority have decided is Interesting, regardless
| of the field". To me that reads as a cult mindset.
|
| I think shrinking the scope allows people to challenge their
| opinions. When you broaden it, discussions become nothing
| more than "wow bird house building is really cool, thanks
| HN!" "I'm glad I found out how to build a tandem bike"
| dang wrote:
| Perhaps some users who felt that it gratified theirs could
| say why.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| Idk if you noticed but, I edited my above comment
| dang wrote:
| Ah I see it now. Well, I'm afraid you're running against
| the grain of HN tradition there. HN, since the day pg
| renamed it from Startup News to Hacker News, has always
| been for anything that gratifies intellectual curiosity--
| specifically "anything that good hackers would find
| interesting". As he wrote way back then (
| https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html), "That
| includes a lot more than hacking and startups", and I'd
| say it also includes a lot more than "tech and academia".
| This is important.
|
| More relevant links:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| not_your_vase wrote:
| Is this good news?
|
| I mean I am not too[0] familiar with Nippon Television. Are they
| expected to be good stewards of the studio?
|
| [0] read: not at all
| agloe_dreams wrote:
| Nippon is to Ghibli as Disney was to Pixar in the early 2000s.
| [deleted]
| astrange wrote:
| They're something like Ghibli's publisher in Japan and already
| owned other studios (Madhouse and Tatsunoko).
| eatonphil wrote:
| Other articles in English such as
| https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2023/09/0ce7dd62559e-stud....
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| This is excellent news!
|
| Nippon Television holds exclusive rights to shows Ghibli content
| in Japan (which could go for a much higher value and viewership
| elsewhere), but the important thing is the relationship between
| Nippon's manager (Okuda) for their Ghibli relationship. For
| years, he would visit the studio day after day, just to hang out
| with the team and Miyazaki.
|
| Okuda's family and Miyazaki's family went to a retreat together
| (as they did every summer) and that experience became the basis
| for Spirited Away. That is why Ghibli stuck with Nippon through
| the years and likely resulted in this buyout.
|
| From the Kingdom of Dreams and Madness Documentary:
|
| "When producer Suzuki meets a group of new Nippon TV employees,
| he tells them that they shared a long professional and private
| relationship with Seiji Okuda from NTV. It was after a trip to
| the mountains with Okuda and his daughter, that gave inspiration
| to the movie Spirited Away."
|
| This is basically Steve Jobs selling Pixar to Disney... this
| relationship is about more than money, it's about trust and
| stewardship.
| Namari wrote:
| > Nippon Television has just acquired Studio Ghibli, which will
| become a subsidiary of their company. Producer Toshio Suzuki (75y
| old) was looking for a successor, and proposed Goro Miyazaki, but
| Hayao Miyazaki (82y old) refused (and so did Goro). Nippon
| Television was already a long-standing partner of Ghibli ("Friday
| Road Show").
| RetiredRichard wrote:
| As long Miyazaki have creative control, everything is going to be
| fine and even after he's gone for a bit.
|
| It took decades after Walt Disney's death for the end of
| Traditional Disney Animation
| diogenescynic wrote:
| I'm glad it wasn't Disney!
| racl101 wrote:
| Or Microsoft lol.
| webdoodle wrote:
| They destroy everything they touch lately.
| jahabrewer wrote:
| Really? Sure Marvel's in a bit of a hole, but Filoni and
| live-action Star Wars has turned me back into a fan.
| robswc wrote:
| Yea. Maybe not "destroy" but "bring down to the lowest common
| denominator." To be sure, there's a market for media everyone
| can enjoy... I just hate how they seemingly have to find
| existing franchises to do it with.
|
| But now that I'm thinking about it... seems to be every
| single company these days. Soooo disappointed with the
| Witcher. Huge fan of the books and games. The first episode I
| knew it was gonna be bad. The color grading and general vibe
| was that of _any_ generic fantasy show on netflix. It wasn't
| gritty and I didn't get a "eastern european culture/lore"
| feel more like a "how can we make this appeal to the most
| people possible by turning all the dials to average."
| Aggressively middle of the road fantasy from such great
| source material, ugh.
| kouteiheika wrote:
| [comment deleted by author]
| Arkhaine_kupo wrote:
| Not gonna murder anyone but would recommend you check the
| posting guidelines in HackerNews cause your comment breaks at
| least two.
|
| `Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not
| less, as a topic gets more divisive. `
|
| and
|
| `Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet
| tropes.`
|
| Be better.
| kouteiheika wrote:
| Right. Because rest of the comments in this subthread are
| clearly much better, very thoughtful, substantive and non-
| generic.
|
| Sigh, fine, I get the point; I'll delete the comment.
| Sorry. You're right, I shouldn't have done that. Even if it
| was a joke it's always a bad idea to post anything even
| remotely controversial on the Internet, _especially_ if it
| can be in any way construed that you might disagree with
| the hive mind of the site you 're posting to. Thank you for
| the reminder before it turned into a potential flamewar.
| dang wrote:
| I appreciate your watching out for the HN guidelines! but
| "Be better" is also a swipe, so it would be good to omit
| that bit in the future.
| huhtenberg wrote:
| No kidding.
| dawnerd wrote:
| They almost had it there for a while too.
| [deleted]
| phantomathkg wrote:
| Nikkei English version will be clearer
| https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Business-deals/Japan-s-Stud...
| iandanforth wrote:
| I've been watching the 4 part documentary '10 Years with Hayao
| Miyazaki' recently and found it interesting and enlightening.
| (https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/ondemand/program/video/10...)
|
| The extent to which Studio Ghibli _is_ Hayao Miyazaki was not
| clear to me. Despite the hundreds of people involved the degree
| to which he is the origin of art, ideas, quality, and drive is
| astounding.
| rcme wrote:
| Undoubtably the hundreds of artists and producers working on
| Ghibli are extraordinarily talent. But talent isn't genius. But
| I've come to realize talent isn't brilliance.
| lenocinor wrote:
| I think we should give Isao Takahata some credit too though.
| Grave Of The Fireflies is quite famous and that's all Takahata.
| And Miyazaki has said that Takahata was very influential on
| him.
| 0ct4via wrote:
| English article:
| https://www.japantimes.co.jp/business/2023/09/21/companies/n...
| dang wrote:
| Changed from https://www.catsuka.com/breves/2023-09-21/nippon-
| television-.... Thanks!
|
| Submitters: we have deep respect for other languages, but HN is
| an English-language site, so please submit articles in English:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
| kouru225 wrote:
| As long as they don't mess with it I'm fine. I recently
| accidentally watched Castle In the Sky with the English dub and I
| was so angry at the terrible changes they made to the sound
| design.
|
| The opening scene in the Japanese version is completely quiet
| except for the sound of engines running, and in the English dub
| they just added crappy music over the whole thing. In the
| Japanese version they break the silence with this really
| startling piano/electronic track. In the English dub they fade it
| in.
|
| I don't know who was responsible for that but there's nothing I
| hate more than someone ruining something good for literally no
| reason.
| tarberiug34 wrote:
| Americans cant stand silence in movies. Thats why every second
| of almost all american movies has music
| autoexec wrote:
| English dubs are usually terrible in general. I'd mind them a
| bit less if they were just faithful translations using
| different voice actors, but so often they dumb the scripts down
| and add a bunch of other changes as if no one in the English
| speaking world could appreciate it otherwise.
|
| It can make a huge difference. One example of this is the
| animated Canadian/French film "Ballerina" which got good
| reviews. The Weinstein Company got the rights to distribute it
| in the US and they butchered the script adding a bunch of bad
| jokes everywhere and making unnecessary changes and the
| resulting film "Leap!" got terrible reviews.
| JeremyNT wrote:
| > English dubs are usually terrible in general. I'd mind them
| a bit less if they were just faithful translations using
| different voice actors, but so often they dumb the scripts
| down and add a bunch of other changes as if no one in the
| English speaking world could appreciate it otherwise.
|
| The later Ghibli films (which received proper localization in
| English) are mostly quite good. They aren't perfect, but
| increased awareness of Miyazaki in the west (and from Disney
| no less) meant that it was worth spending the money to do
| them well. In general they have good writers and voice
| actors, and demonstrate a respect for the source material.
|
| The earlier Miyazaki stuff, before he was as well known here
| (like _Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind_ or _Laputa: Castle
| in the Sky_ ) ... well... not so much (I do think Nausicaa
| was eventually redubbed, though I'm not sure how good it
| was).
| autoexec wrote:
| It's hard to complain too much when you've got someone like
| Neil Gaiman rewriting the script. He fought hard to keep
| what he could unchanged for Princess Mononoke. That's
| probably the best case scenario when it comes to dubs.
| Rewrites with highly skilled writers who care about the
| material and who work with the creators to protect the
| integrity of the work.
| seanc wrote:
| That story is crazy. The first part of it is here:
| https://www.polygon.com/animation-
| cartoons/2020/5/28/2127086...
|
| In the book Alpert goes on to relate how he had to baby-
| sit the entire process right down the final mix in order
| to keep people from messing with it.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Disney. Disney did most of the English Ghibli dubs including
| Castle in the Sky.
| wand3r wrote:
| Are you fluent in Japanese? I always find it odd when people
| prefer a sub to a dub. Only in edge cases where the dub is
| absolutely terrible would I ever consider this for an animated
| work. In movies, sometimes the mouth moving is distracting but
| for animation this is not a problem. For the 2 nits you picked
| above, I don't think I would watch 90 minutes in a foreign
| language. Is this a preference or something? To be clear, I am
| genuinely curious about why people prefer subs
| kps wrote:
| > I don't think I would watch 90 minutes in a foreign
| language.
|
| In the past I watched quite a lot of non-English film (mostly
| in European languages) and always prefer subtitles. For me,
| there is a mental synthesis so that it's almost as if I
| understand the voices directly. This might be a learned
| skill.
| otachack wrote:
| I think it's having a general preference over the "original"
| material. Subs do force you to read and watch so you need to
| initially train yourself to deal with it, but now I always
| prefer subs even with my native language because voice volume
| can vary between media.
|
| Adding dubs lays another layer onto the original artists
| vision, such as Ghibli with Disney-produced dubs on top. Some
| will hit right, others won't. Subs are definitely another
| layer as now you need translators but it's a lighter one than
| dubs.
|
| I personally don't knock people who do dubs vs. subs. I grew
| up watching Bruce Lee movies with terrible English dubs and
| loved them, still.
|
| Hope that makes sense!
| projectazorian wrote:
| > Are you fluent in Japanese? I always find it odd when
| people prefer a sub to a dub.
|
| You don't need to be fluent in Japanese to notice a lot of
| context that (by necessity) gets left out in a dub. How
| characters address one another, for example. Also, if you're
| trying to learn Japanese then the more Japanese you hear, the
| better - even if you don't understand it all.
|
| Not to mention the usual arguments about the original voice
| acting being a better reflection of the authors' intent, etc.
|
| I'll still watch dubs if I don't want to give something my
| undivided attention, though.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Why? It's the original intent and the original voice. The sub
| tends to be closer to the original script because they aren't
| constrained by mouths moving nor can they add lines, music
| etc. I don't think voice acting is as well respected in North
| America too and so lack of talent/desire to keep costs low
| gets a worse result. I don't think it helps that English VAs
| will sometimes try to mimic the Japanese VAs but it just
| doesn't work and easily sounds really grating. I have turned
| off voices in several JRPGs because of this.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| >I don't think voice acting is as well respected in North
| America too and so lack of talent/desire to keep costs low
| gets a worse result.
|
| You've got it backwards: Voice acting in Japan is far more
| respected (idolized, even) than the occupation is in every
| other part of the world.
| goosedragons wrote:
| No you do...
| astrange wrote:
| They're still keeping costs low over there. The respect
| and the side job as an idol is a tradeoff for not being
| paid well.
|
| Much of the better acting comes from everyone living in
| Tokyo so they can more easily record as a group.
| soperj wrote:
| You're agreeing here.
| unethical_ban wrote:
| >Only in edge cases where the dub is absolutely terrible
|
| Most of them. As someone else said, the actual script can
| change. Attack on Titan had much more juvenile dialogue than
| the English translation of the Japanese.
|
| But it sounds like a personal preference for you to watch in
| the language you can understand. I am fine watching foreign
| films upon occasion.
| lenocinor wrote:
| I like Disney's dubs generally. Having watched Princess
| Mononoke 5 times with the Disney sub and 5 times with the
| Disney dub, I like them both for different reasons. Castle In
| The Sky has had a bunch of dubs:
| https://dubbing.fandom.com/wiki/Castle_in_the_Sky Maybe the
| commenter would prefer a different dub.
|
| EDIT: To answer your question specifically, I like the
| original voice actors sometimes and find it makes a
| difference to how I feel about a work sometimes. I also think
| subs can convey some contexts that are difficult in speech,
| especially culture-specific words like honorifics and food
| that in my experience are often left more untranslated in
| subs.
| autoexec wrote:
| The voice acting is almost always vastly better in the
| original language. The creator of the work spent significant
| time and money finding the right person for each role and
| then spent even more time working with them to get the
| performance they want in every scene. This is especially true
| in Japan since voice actors are more of a big deal there than
| in the US. For the dub, that kind of care isn't usually put
| into it, and even when the company producing the dub does put
| some effort into it that only reflects _their_ desires, not
| those of the original creator.
|
| That's why you so often get a very recognizable (and annoying
| imho) "anime dub voice". It sounds extremely unnatural. I can
| often tell if something has been dubbed from its original
| language just by hearing a few spoken lines of dialog! That
| shouldn't be possible, but it's obvious.
|
| The other main problem I have with dubs is that they are not
| faithful to the content of the original work. Sometimes they
| rewrite parts of the script to avoid mouths not matching up
| with English voices, or to limit the amount of work needed to
| edit the mouths to match. Sometimes they rewrite the script
| entirely!
|
| They also tend to make all kinds of totally needless changes.
| They'll often censor content and dumb down the script
| (typically by over-explaining everything). They almost always
| make changes to localize it by removing/replacing cultural
| references. One of the things I enjoy about consuming media
| made in other countries is that I get to learn things about
| those cultures. I like to see artistic works that come from a
| non-US perspective. I don't want that stripped away.
|
| If you're looking at art made in another language, the ideal
| situation would be to have mastery of the language it was
| written/performed in, and that you'd have all the cultural
| knowledge to fully appreciate the many careful and deliberate
| choices the creator made. Most of the time, that's just not
| possible. Translation itself is a lossy process. It means
| that for you to enjoy it at all, you have to accept that some
| things are lost. The goal then, should be to retain as much
| of the original work as possible. That means subtitles and
| original voice acting. If you watch a dub you are not getting
| the work the creators envisioned and labored to bring into
| the world. You're getting something very different and much
| farther removed.
| projectazorian wrote:
| > They also tend to make all kinds of totally needless
| changes. They'll often censor content and dumb down the
| script (typically by over-explaining everything).
|
| Excellent example of this is the Ghost in the Shell 4K
| remaster, which has all new subtitles that are a much more
| faithful translation of the original work - but you
| wouldn't know that if you watched the dub, which wasn't
| changed at all.
| [deleted]
| city41 wrote:
| And to add to all the answers (that I agree with), when
| watching with subs I almost always find it fades away. It
| almost feels like I somehow know Japanese. Sure I'm reading
| words, but once lost in the story it becomes much less
| noticeable.
| robswc wrote:
| I'm the same way. I love subtitles _but_ they degrade some of
| the experience. I had to turn them off because they will
| spoil the moment. Good example is King of The Hill. The I'll
| see the punchline before the delivery and I feel like it
| spoils the scene/joke.
|
| I'll run them on other things (and they're amazing
| otherwise!) but when I sit down to watch something good, I
| have to turn them off or I'll get distracted/spoiled.
|
| More power to the people that enjoy the subbed version
| though.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| I forget what I was watching. It might not have even been
| anime, but the subtitles had blanks in them, until it was
| time to reveal the word, when that key word would appear.
|
| In this way, they _didn 't_ spoil the punchline, or who was
| being talked to. It was a little bit jarring the first
| time, but by the second time it happened, I had already
| adapted and was thankful for it.
| autoexec wrote:
| > I'll see the punchline before the delivery and I feel
| like it spoils the scene/joke.
|
| This I'll agree is a major problem with subtitles. It's not
| even just the jokes. I've seen the names of characters
| shown in subtitles (because they were speaking off screen)
| long before that character's name was revealed to the
| audience by the script.
|
| Another major distraction is the trend companies have these
| days to refuse to provide subtitles and give only closed
| captioning with all of its extraneous information about
| sound effects or the highly subjective descriptions of
| whatever music is playing. It's so obnoxious.
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