[HN Gopher] Ex-congressman convicted of insider trading before T...
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       Ex-congressman convicted of insider trading before T-Mobile merger
       with Sprint
        
       Author : perihelions
       Score  : 85 points
       Date   : 2023-09-20 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nbcnews.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nbcnews.com)
        
       | Racing0461 wrote:
       | what about "current congressman"?
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Of course, they are allowed[1], why would they be bound by the
         | laws that govern the governed?
         | 
         | [1]https://blogs.luc.edu/compliance/?p=4459
        
       | elintknower wrote:
       | Ah, so as long as you keep getting elected you won't be
       | charged... that's the new game...
        
       | atdrummond wrote:
       | This is a frustrating title. While it is technically true, it
       | elides some important information and context:
       | 
       | - He had been out of Congress for over 8 years at the time of the
       | Sprint/T-Mobile merger.
       | 
       | - He made considerably larger gains (2x, $100k more nominally) on
       | his Navigant insider trade.
       | 
       | - None of his insider trading was related to either Congress
       | directly or congressional info on the named merger, as one might
       | infer from the title.
       | 
       | Why not "Former Rep. Turned Consultant Illegally Traded On Client
       | Info From T-Mobile And Navigant" or something similar but more
       | concise?
        
         | whoiscroberts wrote:
         | Why not? To give the impression to 'headline only' readers that
         | congress people do in fact get in trouble for insider trading.
        
       | jrockway wrote:
       | The thing that always gets the insider traders is using non-
       | public information. Is there an approved way to make the
       | information public, so you can trade right after you do that?
       | Like, nobody is going to trust you, so it probably won't make the
       | price change much. But, the information was technically public.
       | The question I have is, what does "public" mean?
        
         | mandevil wrote:
         | This sounds like a particularly common failure mode for
         | software engineers in dealing with the law. In software
         | engineering, we have strict rules, and most of our thoughts are
         | devoted to exception handling, so we're thinking about
         | exceptions and what the behavior of the system will be in
         | unusual cases.
         | 
         | Law doesn't work that way. If you try and build a clever but
         | hacky argument they don't care. They don't say "what a clever
         | hack, you got us, you're free to go." They arrest you and
         | charge you and _maybe_ after your life is ruined by the expense
         | of your legal defense, you don 't actually have to go to prison
         | (presuming you got bail for the 12-18 months it took for your
         | case to wend through the courts)! Congratulations, you won your
         | case! That's the good outcome! See, the law is enforced by
         | people, not rules- it's the police, the prosecutors, the judges
         | and the juries who uphold the law, not straightforward and
         | simple software code. And people (very much including juries!)
         | can tell what the intent of a law is, and they will (most of
         | the time) enforce the intent of that law. Schemes to try and
         | game the laws? That looks an awful lot like a guilty conscience
         | which is sometimes a required factor in whether a crime was
         | committed (especially on the sorts of financial crimes we're
         | talking about here).
         | 
         | As for the actual law defining what public disclosure is, it's
         | Regulation Fair Disclosure (https://www.federalregister.gov/doc
         | uments/2000/08/24/00-2115... or
         | https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-17/chapter-II/part-243). As
         | I understand it, basically, the key step is that you file a 8-K
         | form with the SEC who takes responsibility for publishing it
         | widely, and there are rules on blackout periods for insider
         | transactions around the filing of those 8-K's, but I'm not a
         | lawyer, definitely don't treat what I say as legal advice, I
         | just had to sit through lectures on this back when I worked as
         | an engineer for a financial firm.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | You'd have to abide by Reg FD[1] in making such a disclosure
         | and you also must wait a "reasonable" time before trading on
         | the disclosed information, which is why insider trading windows
         | don't open for one or several days after a company announced
         | earnings, for example.
         | 
         | 1: https://www.investor.gov/introduction-investing/investing-
         | ba...
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | That makes sense. Everyone has always come up with my scams
           | before ;)
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/former-congressman-sent...
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Buyer
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | I love the nominative determinism. He was an early buyer.
        
       | alwaysrunning wrote:
       | Ah, the things you get to hear as a consultant.
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | He was not a congressman at the time he did this.
       | 
       | It's absurd that if he made use of the same secret information
       | but while employed as a congressman (even if he was overseeing
       | the merger) would mean he was fine.
        
         | kasey_junk wrote:
         | This is a weird myth that has been debunked repeatedly:
         | https://www.everycrsreport.com/files/20170412_RS21127_36174d...
         | 
         | Congress people and their staff are not immune from insider
         | trading rules and in fact there is an explicit law saying so.
        
           | pseg134 wrote:
           | Sure, but they are not considered "insiders" when trading on
           | non public information obtained during their official duties.
           | So sure, if his wife told him about her company's merger he
           | could go to jail. You are either ignorant or willfully
           | misleading people.
        
             | kasey_junk wrote:
             | Lots of people aren't considered insiders when trading on
             | non public information obtained during their official
             | duties. Congress people aren't held to a different standard
             | here.
             | 
             | If you want to argue that they should be held to a higher
             | standard that's reasonable but the way the comment was
             | worded suggested there is some extra immunity for Congress.
             | Which there isn't.
        
               | fsckboy wrote:
               | well then, you are either educated/intelligent, or
               | thoughtfully trying _not_ to mislead people! which one is
               | it, buddy!?
               | 
               | what is the definition of non-public information in the
               | context of congress and corporate "inside" information?
               | If the congressional subcommittees get briefed on the
               | Covid crisis or trade laws or policy, they might have
               | advance knowledge that companies themselves don't have.
               | Or if a company insider reveals information to
               | subcommittees, is that actually making the information
               | public?
        
               | riotnrrd wrote:
               | If you're curious, you can read the relevant laws
               | yourself. I suggest you start with the STOCK act of 2012
               | (S. 2038, 126 Stat. 291, enacted April 4, 2012). This law
               | prohibits the use of non-public information for private
               | profit, including insider trading by members of Congress
               | and other government employees. You can also follow up
               | with the relevant SEC definitions of "non public
               | information."
        
               | peyton wrote:
               | It's a $200 fine for a failure to file. 10% penalty for
               | prohibited trades. Enforcement is at ethics committee
               | discretion. Those aren't the rules normal people have to
               | follow. Maybe people have a problem with that?
        
               | kasey_junk wrote:
               | Those are _more_ rules than normal people have to follow.
               | The whole point is there is no special exemption for
               | Congress though people seem to think there is.
               | 
               | Should there be even more strict rules for Congress than
               | there are? Sure! But it's not because they currently
               | aren't subject to insider laws.
        
               | kasey_junk wrote:
               | The SEC is currently pursuing a very expansive definition
               | of insider trading (and are losing some cases because of
               | it). I'm extremely nervous about stating definitively
               | what they think is illegal insider trading.
               | 
               | That said, historically one of the things US* insider
               | trading requires "breach of a fiduciary duty or other
               | relationship of trust and confidence". Trading on
               | material non-public information is not enough, there must
               | be a relationship, there is a whole industry of people
               | devoted to trading on material non-public information.
               | They just have to get it without that breach.
               | 
               | So the argument for congress people (presumably, I'm not
               | an securities lawyer) would be that most of the
               | information they receive they do not receive via a
               | fiduciary relationship or one of trust and confidence. Or
               | that by Congress getting it, it becomes part of the
               | public record. Though I can certainly see
               | sealed/confidential testimony going the other way.
               | 
               | *This is an important distinction. In the US insider
               | trading laws aren't about protecting the markets, they
               | are about protecting shareholders. Its more about theft
               | than market manipulation. European laws can have a
               | completely different basis.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | Amazing how much risk a person will accept for only $300k in
       | profits. Guy was an attorney and ex-Congressman who could have
       | scared up that amount of money in no time.
        
         | pcurve wrote:
         | Maybe he thought the small amount would let him fly under the
         | radar.
        
         | tester756 wrote:
         | >who could have scared up that amount of money in no time.
         | 
         | What makes you think so?
        
           | diogenes4 wrote:
           | For one example, see Barney Frank, co-author of the Dodd-
           | Frank act. After retiring from congress he found himself with
           | a board role on Signature Bank. Over the seven years he
           | "worked" there he accumulated around $1M in salary + equity.
           | 
           | Or for another example, see the Hunter Biden/Burisma story. I
           | think the media coverage of this is mostly partisan quackery,
           | but it's a useful illustration here as to how you can make a
           | good deal of money _just being vaguely associated with
           | american politicians_. Hunter is certainly not unusual in
           | this regard.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | colechristensen wrote:
       | This isn't as interesting as the headline makes it seem. He had
       | not been in Congress a years when the insider trading took place.
        
         | fatfingerd wrote:
         | Looks like he stepped down to stop investigations into the
         | Frontier Foundation, a scam NGO for nepotism and transfers of
         | wealth?
        
           | infamouscow wrote:
           | > scam NGO
           | 
           | The word "scam" is a redundant modifier for an NGO :)
        
           | asoneth wrote:
           | > a scam NGO for nepotism and transfers of wealth
           | 
           | I thought you might be exaggerating, but if the wikipedia
           | entry is to believed it seems like a pretty obvious case of
           | laundering bribes:
           | 
           | "In 2003, Buyer created The Frontier Foundation, whose stated
           | purpose is educational funding for college students ...
           | Buyer's daughter Colleen was the president ... His son Ryan,
           | in 2009, was director ... the foundation shared an office
           | with Buyer's campaign office ... annual fundraising golf
           | outings had raised more than $880,000 for the foundation.
           | Almost all the contributions were from 20 companies and trade
           | organizations that had interests before the House Energy and
           | Commerce Committee, of which Buyer is a member ... In 2018,
           | the Frontier Foundation was closed by Buyer, the only listed
           | officer, without ever having funded a scholarship."
           | 
           | Excerpts from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Buyer#Fron
           | tier_Foundatio...
        
             | fatfingerd wrote:
             | He seems to have played all the important roles for
             | violating lobbying ethics, and probably wasn't consulting
             | at a tobacco and then telco company out of coincidence,
             | either his presence or his purpose would have been a
             | facilitation of laundering.
             | 
             | 22 months is embarrassing, that no other agency could put
             | him away first is even more embarrassing.
        
         | chews wrote:
         | Funny enough had he been in Congress he'd be in the clear.
        
           | simplicio wrote:
           | Why? Chris Collins was convicted of insider trading while in
           | congress just a few years ago. I don't think there's any
           | special protections for Congress-folk from insider trading
           | laws.
        
             | edgyquant wrote:
             | It's just a talking point people like to parrot
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-20 23:02 UTC)