[HN Gopher] Can't send email more than 500 miles (2002)
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       Can't send email more than 500 miles (2002)
        
       Author : dvrp
       Score  : 163 points
       Date   : 2023-09-19 21:05 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (web.mit.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (web.mit.edu)
        
       | sudobash1 wrote:
       | Every time I read this story the part that always surprises me
       | again is the units command. Converting from 3 millilightseconds
       | to miles is brilliant, and I am delighted every time that the
       | units command can do this.
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | kragen posted a several of excellent comments highlighting the
         | capabilities of GNU Units a couple of months back, these two in
         | particular:
         | 
         | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36988917>
         | 
         | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36995046>
         | 
         | And Trey Harris's "500 mile email" story is what clued me on to
         | GNU units and its capabilities.
         | 
         | Reminder: if you're on MacOS, or one of the BSDs, your default
         | units is from BSD, _not_ the GNU version, and is far less
         | capable. GNU units can be installed on MacOS through Homebrew.
         | The package is  "gnu-units", the command is "gunits" once
         | installed.
         | 
         |  _Edit:_ Corrected Homebrew package name.
        
           | RobotToaster wrote:
           | It's also in chocolatey for windows
        
           | dementik wrote:
           | Actually,
           | 
           | brew install gnu-units
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | Gah! Thanks, corrected above.
             | 
             | (I run the command far more often than I install the
             | package.)
        
         | ashton314 wrote:
         | My units command (on macOS) doesn't have it. :/ Is there a
         | better version out there?
        
           | drpossum wrote:
           | Yes, you want the gnu units. It's in homebrew as gnu-units
           | (and you run it as gunits)
        
       | orisho wrote:
       | Oh, I love this story! :D Always fun to read whenever I stumble
       | upon it.
        
       | ashton314 wrote:
       | "You waited a few DAYS?" I interrupted, a tremor tinging my
       | voice.  "And         you couldn't send email this whole time?"
       | "We could send email.  Just not more than--"              "--500
       | miles, yes," I finished for him, "I got that.  But why didn't
       | you call earlier?"              "Well, we hadn't collected enough
       | data to be sure of what was going on         until just now."
       | Right.  This is the chairman of *statistics*. "Anyway,         I
       | asked one of the geostatisticians to look into it--"
       | "Geostatisticians..."              "--yes, and she's produced a
       | map showing the radius within which we can         send email to
       | be slightly more than 500 miles.
       | 
       | Pure gold. I love that the stats department put in such rigorous
       | testing before submitting the ticket.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | jayrwren wrote:
       | classic. I read this 20yrs ago.
        
       | Royce-CMR wrote:
       | The best part - the consultant who patched the server is on
       | Hacker News! He commented on his part here:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23775404
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | i think about this story often and i find that the person who
       | figured out that it was 500 miles actually deserves more credit
       | than they get in the story. have to really think out of the box
       | to figure that one
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | I've wondered how feasible it would be to do something like this
       | to have a website that could only be accessed when a client is
       | within a certain physical proximity of the host. Could make for a
       | fun CTF!
        
         | escapecharacter wrote:
         | My quick hack would be to establish a websocket connection, and
         | send a random stream of numbers to the client. If the client
         | didn't return the number within a ping threshold, block their
         | access.
        
       | linsomniac wrote:
       | Great story!
       | 
       | At lunch today I was just talking about Sendmail, which I can
       | assure you is a rather rare occurrence. I was talking about the
       | first time I set up sendmail, back in '91 or '92. I was using the
       | bat book and nearly tore my hair out over a week getting that
       | first setup working. I eventually came to understand and
       | appreciate the m4 config, but I ended up moving to qmail and
       | postfix in the mid '90s and never looked back.
        
       | pestatije wrote:
       | > our campus network at the time was that it was 100% switched
       | 
       | is this realistic, or a writers license?
        
         | itscodingtime wrote:
         | What does this mean anyway ? I tried googling but no dice.
        
           | brazzy wrote:
           | No routers, only switches.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | I thought it meant no hubs, only switches...
        
         | morley wrote:
         | There's a bit of storytelling embellishment. I believe it's
         | covered in the FAQ:
         | 
         | https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail-faq.html
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > is this realistic, or a writers license?
         | 
         | Realistic. And, believe it or not, I know of at least one
         | organization that plans to convert an entire literal skyscraper
         | of office space from routed networks to a single, flat switched
         | network for all the employees of all the subcompanies. In 2023.
         | 
         | Obviously everyone with a bit of braincells left tells them to
         | _not_ do that because it 's utterly dumb, but hey, strategic
         | decision by the holding company to save on costs...
         | 
         | At least they're not using hubs. (For the younger generation: a
         | hub is an Ethernet device that takes any packet it ingests in
         | one port and sends it out to all other ports, with no
         | consideration at all if the device that the packet is destined
         | for actually is on that port - something a switch does, by
         | maintaining a mapping of MAC addresses to ports. Extremely dumb
         | devices, but used to be way faster and especially cheaper than
         | switches in the 90's/early '00s)
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Terr_ wrote:
           | I still keep an old 4-port hub in my junk-box because that
           | way I can diagnose/snoop on network traffic... Although so
           | much of it is encrypted these days anyway.
        
           | wink wrote:
           | bonus fact: multicast was still being done via broadcast in
           | some switches ~10y ago, also extremely dumb :P
        
       | snewman wrote:
       | This excellent tale has appeared many times on HN; here's dang,
       | in 2021, listing some of the past threads:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29213472
        
         | ShamelessC wrote:
         | Indeed. Seeing this on the front page is a good reminder I've
         | been on this site far too long.
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | Sometimes you just need to gather all the young'uns around the
         | campfire and regale them with the tales of old, like The
         | 500-Mile Email, or The Story of Mel.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related. Others?
       | 
       |  _The case of the 500-mile email (2002)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29213064 - Nov 2021 (93
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _We can 't send email more than 500 miles (2002)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23775404 - July 2020 (135
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _500 miles (2002)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18675375 - Dec 2018 (32
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The case of the 500-mile email (2002)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14676835 - July 2017 (56
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The 500-mile email (2002)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9338708 - April 2015 (139
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The case of the 500-mile email_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2701063 - June 2011 (18
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The case of the 500-mile email_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1293652 - April 2010 (24
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The case of the 500-mile email_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=385068 - Dec 2008 (28
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _The case of the 500-mile email_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=123489 - Feb 2008 (7
       | comments)
        
         | dvrp wrote:
         | oh! do submissions of same link stop being "linked" after a
         | year or so?
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Correct! https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html
           | 
           | That's on purpose--we want good articles to get multiple
           | chances at attention, and we want the 'classics' to pop up
           | periodically (just not too often), so newer cohorts of users
           | get some exposure to them. So you did well :)
           | 
           | The purpose of linking to past threads is not to imply
           | anything bad about the repost (if it were a bad repost, we
           | would handle it differently) - rather, it's to point curious
           | readers to other discussions on the same topic that may
           | interest them.
        
             | dvrp wrote:
             | good to know, and it makes sense!
             | 
             | ty
        
         | qup wrote:
         | Do you have a script to do this work for you?
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Kind of: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35668525
        
             | zerojames wrote:
             | Thank you for sharing, dang! Onward to find the next
             | curiosity!
        
       | BjoernKW wrote:
       | Ah, the true mother of all leaky abstractions:
       | 
       | The actual underlying transmission protocol of the relativistic
       | universe shining through when trying to send an email.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | unlog wrote:
       | My memory is vague. Anyone remember the related one about wife
       | reporting some office app won't print on $day?
       | 
       | edit: here it is
       | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/255161...
        
         | olddustytrail wrote:
         | Probably the "Openoffice can't print on Tuesdays" one:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8171956
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | This sort of kind should be [1997] rather than 2002, but then
       | even Trey can't remember:
       | https://www.ibiblio.org/harris/500milemail-faq.html
        
       | jaboutboul wrote:
       | Love when this story comes up on HN.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-19 23:00 UTC)