[HN Gopher] Headsets Delayed into 2024
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       Headsets Delayed into 2024
        
       Author : chungus
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2023-09-19 11:41 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (simulavr.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (simulavr.com)
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | I haven't been following SimulaVR and do see the appeal of an
       | all-in-one platform. The costs of quality and performance do add
       | up and I can't justify to myself investing in it. I would much
       | prefer to separate the HMD like something closer to the Bigscreen
       | Beyond form-factor and a CPU/battery that's independently
       | upgradeable and not supported by my neck.
        
         | kanetw wrote:
         | Yeah, understandable. For us it's a deliberate design decision
         | to minimize the amount of moving parts (=hassle, things to get
         | tangled in, etc.)
        
           | drcode wrote:
           | I bought in on the presale, and have been very happy with how
           | you guys have been approaching this project. It's obviously
           | an uphill battle to release this device, but I love the
           | ambition and lack of compromise you guys have in creating a
           | new form factor.
           | 
           | I think you are likely too early to market, making it a hard
           | sell for a mass market in the short term. If you can survive
           | long enough I think you can do well, however.
        
       | michaelbuckbee wrote:
       | I don't know if this is strictly a "rule" but from the places
       | I've worked, it's been the case that given the
       | capital/batch/order constraints of hardware, it's very difficult
       | to make break even on less than 10,000 units.
        
         | kanetw wrote:
         | With our current design, we break even at about exactly 1k
         | units.
        
       | dcow wrote:
       | On a positive note, given a16z's feedback, I'm sure they can find
       | another firm/partner that would be willing to back them at this
       | stage. They are definitely in a hard position, though. Reading
       | this I doubt I'd put money in as a consumer until they have the
       | capital to execute. Sounds like they really need 3-5MM to hit
       | their objectives even though they only say 1.2MM.
       | 
       | I've also seen a16z invest in far less (pitch decks and hand-wave
       | demos). So my read on the feedback is they've made too much
       | progress on one front (enough to show a16z that they're not a
       | compelling seed investment) but not enough progress on the other
       | front (enough to warrant a PMF A round). Doesn't seem like the
       | most fun spot to be in, and I know how hard this part of the
       | stretch is. Good luck!
        
         | kanetw wrote:
         | We've tightened up the numbers a bit, but it's pretty close to
         | a honest amount. 4m would put us well into profitable S1
         | production + enough runway to develop the next iteration
         | territory.
         | 
         | > I've also seen a16z invest in far less (pitch decks and hand-
         | wave demos). So my read on the feedback is they've made too
         | much progress on one front (enough to show a16z that they're
         | not a compelling seed investment) but not enough progress on
         | the other front (enough to warrant a PMF A round). Doesn't seem
         | like a fun spot to be in.
         | 
         | That's how I feel as well, given feedback from other VCs we've
         | applied at. Amplify told us roughly "too big for a seed, too
         | small for a series A" after five meetings or so.
        
           | dcow wrote:
           | Bummer I missed the SAFE round. I would consider chipping in
           | as an investor even though I wouldn't feel comfortable
           | purchasing a preorder as a consumer. Wonder if you can
           | structure your next round to include spots for people that
           | missed the train...
        
             | kanetw wrote:
             | We're still accepting SAFEs. Contact georges@simulavr.com
             | for details.
        
       | ajdude wrote:
       | Like I mentioned in a related thread [1], I really want to see
       | simulavr succeed. They started working on this stuff before
       | anyone else did but one of my worries is that Apple and other big
       | names are going to come in and establish the VR Computing market
       | before the Simula one is launched.
       | 
       | [1] SimulaVR: Headsets Delayed (simulavr.com) 8 points by Philpax
       | 1 day ago
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37559316
        
         | georgewsinger wrote:
         | Appreciate your support. From our perspective, the Apple
         | headset is more an "iPad replacement" than a "laptop
         | replacement".[1]
         | 
         | The Vision Pro is based on their iOS (iPad/iPhone) ecosystem
         | for their 2D apps, so you won't be able to use powerhouse
         | office apps. It seems instead more geared towards the passive
         | consumption of information, entertainment, and casual gaming,
         | whereas we're trying to build something that can realistically
         | replace a (Linux) laptop.
         | 
         | I'm not sure what Apple is thinking strategically, but they're
         | structurally incentivized to cannibalize their iPad sales over
         | their macbook sales (since their iPads are their weakest
         | product in their lineup in terms of sales).
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36326677
        
           | CharlesW wrote:
           | > _The Vision Pro is based on their iOS (iPad /iPhone)
           | ecosystem for their 2D apps, so you won't be able to use
           | powerhouse office apps._
           | 
           | Creators can use the Vision Pro as their Mac's display,
           | and/or run Office directly on Vision Pro.
           | 
           | https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-vision-pro-can-be-
           | used-...
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23749947/apple-vision-
           | pro-...
        
             | drcode wrote:
             | that's a terrible alternative, the helmet has enough
             | horsepower to run anything a Mac can run
             | 
             | this will be so annoyingly fiddly to set up, nobody is
             | going to use it on a regular basis
             | 
             | why would somebody buy a "pro" device that only lets them
             | VNC into their laptop?
        
               | moron4hire wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
               | kaliqt wrote:
               | People would buy it because Apple. I sincerely hope Apple
               | isn't this dumb though.
               | 
               | Luckily LG and Meta and Samsung and Google are not
               | playing around and will force Apple's hand with the AVP
               | or overtake Apple entirely.
        
           | papa_bear wrote:
           | For me personally, it's appealing that it just provides a
           | mirror to my existing MacBook. It gives me more flexibility
           | on when to use glasses vs laptop screen, like if I need to
           | take notes in a meeting/lecture hall.
        
           | parl_match wrote:
           | > It seems instead more geared towards the passive
           | consumption of information, entertainment, and casual gaming,
           | whereas we're trying to build something that can
           | realistically replace a (Linux) laptop.
           | 
           | FWIW, it appears that Apple themselves don't see it as that.
           | They are focusing on consumption for the initial release, but
           | there are clear plans to bring "full" macos apps to Vision
           | Pro.
           | 
           | They haven't released everything, but what you need to know
           | is in the category they're placing AVP: computer. They refer
           | to it as a computer, repeatedly. Not a mobile device. And,
           | all of their computers run Xcode. I would be very surprised
           | if we don't hear more about that by next year.
        
             | kaliqt wrote:
             | Can you confirm they want to do that though?
             | 
             | I was suspicious that they are stupid enough to think that
             | this cannibalizing Macbook sales is a valid reason to gimp
             | it like they do the iPad.
             | 
             | However, this tech (AR/VR) is much much bigger than
             | traditional computing and is going to replace the
             | aforementioned and more.
             | 
             | So I sincerely hope that I can do development, pull up a
             | terminal, an so on within the device. That's going to be
             | extremely important I think to use this as a remote working
             | machine (which was my hope for years).
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | > While we expect consumers to be really excited about a VR
       | takeoff in 2024
       | 
       | My guess is that there will indeed be a lot of excitement in 2024
       | (at least in Apple land) and then it's going to drop off again in
       | 2025. That's not necessarily a terrible thing though.
       | 
       | Meta has sold something like 25 million headsets. The market is
       | already bigger than many people realize and maybe it's big
       | enough. It doesn't need to 10x and if it did, there's more than a
       | small chance that kind of growth would end up being bad thing.
       | Maybe a16z not biting means enshittification has been delayed.
        
         | georgewsinger wrote:
         | Agreed that VR gaming is bigger than most people realize, but
         | VR for productivity (to replace PCs & laptops) is still an
         | untapped market. VR pixel density is now within one doubling of
         | "human eye resolution", so it seems like now's the time for VR
         | to be useful for this use case.
         | 
         | Apple's headset is really cool, but is being built over iOS for
         | 2D apps, so isn't realistically going to replace someone's
         | laptop as their primary computing device.[1]
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36326677
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | It's not for me, but I'm still rooting for you. It feels like
           | something that should exist.
        
       | MagicMoonlight wrote:
       | So basically they've spent all the money without ever having a
       | product to deliver and now they're a juicero.
        
         | mellosouls wrote:
         | This seems like an admirably honest, reflective and eloquent
         | report of a pain point in a tough new field. I don't see the
         | need for the sneery dismissal.
         | 
         | I hope they get the support they need and succeed.
        
           | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-19 23:00 UTC)