[HN Gopher] Headsets Delayed into 2024
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Headsets Delayed into 2024
Author : chungus
Score : 73 points
Date : 2023-09-19 11:41 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (simulavr.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (simulavr.com)
| karmakaze wrote:
| I haven't been following SimulaVR and do see the appeal of an
| all-in-one platform. The costs of quality and performance do add
| up and I can't justify to myself investing in it. I would much
| prefer to separate the HMD like something closer to the Bigscreen
| Beyond form-factor and a CPU/battery that's independently
| upgradeable and not supported by my neck.
| kanetw wrote:
| Yeah, understandable. For us it's a deliberate design decision
| to minimize the amount of moving parts (=hassle, things to get
| tangled in, etc.)
| drcode wrote:
| I bought in on the presale, and have been very happy with how
| you guys have been approaching this project. It's obviously
| an uphill battle to release this device, but I love the
| ambition and lack of compromise you guys have in creating a
| new form factor.
|
| I think you are likely too early to market, making it a hard
| sell for a mass market in the short term. If you can survive
| long enough I think you can do well, however.
| michaelbuckbee wrote:
| I don't know if this is strictly a "rule" but from the places
| I've worked, it's been the case that given the
| capital/batch/order constraints of hardware, it's very difficult
| to make break even on less than 10,000 units.
| kanetw wrote:
| With our current design, we break even at about exactly 1k
| units.
| dcow wrote:
| On a positive note, given a16z's feedback, I'm sure they can find
| another firm/partner that would be willing to back them at this
| stage. They are definitely in a hard position, though. Reading
| this I doubt I'd put money in as a consumer until they have the
| capital to execute. Sounds like they really need 3-5MM to hit
| their objectives even though they only say 1.2MM.
|
| I've also seen a16z invest in far less (pitch decks and hand-wave
| demos). So my read on the feedback is they've made too much
| progress on one front (enough to show a16z that they're not a
| compelling seed investment) but not enough progress on the other
| front (enough to warrant a PMF A round). Doesn't seem like the
| most fun spot to be in, and I know how hard this part of the
| stretch is. Good luck!
| kanetw wrote:
| We've tightened up the numbers a bit, but it's pretty close to
| a honest amount. 4m would put us well into profitable S1
| production + enough runway to develop the next iteration
| territory.
|
| > I've also seen a16z invest in far less (pitch decks and hand-
| wave demos). So my read on the feedback is they've made too
| much progress on one front (enough to show a16z that they're
| not a compelling seed investment) but not enough progress on
| the other front (enough to warrant a PMF A round). Doesn't seem
| like a fun spot to be in.
|
| That's how I feel as well, given feedback from other VCs we've
| applied at. Amplify told us roughly "too big for a seed, too
| small for a series A" after five meetings or so.
| dcow wrote:
| Bummer I missed the SAFE round. I would consider chipping in
| as an investor even though I wouldn't feel comfortable
| purchasing a preorder as a consumer. Wonder if you can
| structure your next round to include spots for people that
| missed the train...
| kanetw wrote:
| We're still accepting SAFEs. Contact georges@simulavr.com
| for details.
| ajdude wrote:
| Like I mentioned in a related thread [1], I really want to see
| simulavr succeed. They started working on this stuff before
| anyone else did but one of my worries is that Apple and other big
| names are going to come in and establish the VR Computing market
| before the Simula one is launched.
|
| [1] SimulaVR: Headsets Delayed (simulavr.com) 8 points by Philpax
| 1 day ago
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37559316
| georgewsinger wrote:
| Appreciate your support. From our perspective, the Apple
| headset is more an "iPad replacement" than a "laptop
| replacement".[1]
|
| The Vision Pro is based on their iOS (iPad/iPhone) ecosystem
| for their 2D apps, so you won't be able to use powerhouse
| office apps. It seems instead more geared towards the passive
| consumption of information, entertainment, and casual gaming,
| whereas we're trying to build something that can realistically
| replace a (Linux) laptop.
|
| I'm not sure what Apple is thinking strategically, but they're
| structurally incentivized to cannibalize their iPad sales over
| their macbook sales (since their iPads are their weakest
| product in their lineup in terms of sales).
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36326677
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _The Vision Pro is based on their iOS (iPad /iPhone)
| ecosystem for their 2D apps, so you won't be able to use
| powerhouse office apps._
|
| Creators can use the Vision Pro as their Mac's display,
| and/or run Office directly on Vision Pro.
|
| https://www.tomsguide.com/news/apple-vision-pro-can-be-
| used-...
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23749947/apple-vision-
| pro-...
| drcode wrote:
| that's a terrible alternative, the helmet has enough
| horsepower to run anything a Mac can run
|
| this will be so annoyingly fiddly to set up, nobody is
| going to use it on a regular basis
|
| why would somebody buy a "pro" device that only lets them
| VNC into their laptop?
| moron4hire wrote:
| [delayed]
| kaliqt wrote:
| People would buy it because Apple. I sincerely hope Apple
| isn't this dumb though.
|
| Luckily LG and Meta and Samsung and Google are not
| playing around and will force Apple's hand with the AVP
| or overtake Apple entirely.
| papa_bear wrote:
| For me personally, it's appealing that it just provides a
| mirror to my existing MacBook. It gives me more flexibility
| on when to use glasses vs laptop screen, like if I need to
| take notes in a meeting/lecture hall.
| parl_match wrote:
| > It seems instead more geared towards the passive
| consumption of information, entertainment, and casual gaming,
| whereas we're trying to build something that can
| realistically replace a (Linux) laptop.
|
| FWIW, it appears that Apple themselves don't see it as that.
| They are focusing on consumption for the initial release, but
| there are clear plans to bring "full" macos apps to Vision
| Pro.
|
| They haven't released everything, but what you need to know
| is in the category they're placing AVP: computer. They refer
| to it as a computer, repeatedly. Not a mobile device. And,
| all of their computers run Xcode. I would be very surprised
| if we don't hear more about that by next year.
| kaliqt wrote:
| Can you confirm they want to do that though?
|
| I was suspicious that they are stupid enough to think that
| this cannibalizing Macbook sales is a valid reason to gimp
| it like they do the iPad.
|
| However, this tech (AR/VR) is much much bigger than
| traditional computing and is going to replace the
| aforementioned and more.
|
| So I sincerely hope that I can do development, pull up a
| terminal, an so on within the device. That's going to be
| extremely important I think to use this as a remote working
| machine (which was my hope for years).
| criddell wrote:
| > While we expect consumers to be really excited about a VR
| takeoff in 2024
|
| My guess is that there will indeed be a lot of excitement in 2024
| (at least in Apple land) and then it's going to drop off again in
| 2025. That's not necessarily a terrible thing though.
|
| Meta has sold something like 25 million headsets. The market is
| already bigger than many people realize and maybe it's big
| enough. It doesn't need to 10x and if it did, there's more than a
| small chance that kind of growth would end up being bad thing.
| Maybe a16z not biting means enshittification has been delayed.
| georgewsinger wrote:
| Agreed that VR gaming is bigger than most people realize, but
| VR for productivity (to replace PCs & laptops) is still an
| untapped market. VR pixel density is now within one doubling of
| "human eye resolution", so it seems like now's the time for VR
| to be useful for this use case.
|
| Apple's headset is really cool, but is being built over iOS for
| 2D apps, so isn't realistically going to replace someone's
| laptop as their primary computing device.[1]
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36326677
| criddell wrote:
| It's not for me, but I'm still rooting for you. It feels like
| something that should exist.
| MagicMoonlight wrote:
| So basically they've spent all the money without ever having a
| product to deliver and now they're a juicero.
| mellosouls wrote:
| This seems like an admirably honest, reflective and eloquent
| report of a pain point in a tough new field. I don't see the
| need for the sneery dismissal.
|
| I hope they get the support they need and succeed.
| [deleted]
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