[HN Gopher] Chili Oil Notes
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Chili Oil Notes
Author : hardwaregeek
Score : 105 points
Date : 2023-09-17 16:00 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (uptointerpretation.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (uptointerpretation.com)
| civilitty wrote:
| _> I've also thought about doing a really low and slow
| extraction, say by using a sous vide machine. You do run into
| food safety issues, since the chilies can contain botulism._
|
| Sous vide was my first thought, since that avoids the evaporation
| and oxidation that decreases the intensity of the low and slow
| method. However I don't think botulism is any more of a concern
| here than any other sous vide dish and high heat doesn't kill
| botulism spores so it doesn't really matter how you cook the
| chilis.
|
| Just keep it above 140F while infusing and keep it out of the
| <130F danger zone past a few hours. Quickly cool it below 45F
| using an ice bath after infusing if you're paranoid or cooking
| for someone that might be immunocompromised.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I did sous vide chilli oil by placing the oil and chillies in
| glass canning jars in the water bath. I let them rip for about
| 90 minutes at ~88degC/190degF and the results were pretty good.
| I like the roasty/mildly bitter results from flash heating, but
| this was quite smooth and pleasant.
|
| I think some purists would think it tastes weird. It's a very
| "clean" chilli flavour. I think it would have been a lot better
| with more aromatics, and when I'm done with this oil I'll
| likely give that a shot.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| Yeah I might give it a shot (although I gave away my sous vide
| machine). But low and slow isn't always better for extraction.
| Coffee for instance extracts more with a fast infusion versus
| cold brew.
| civilitty wrote:
| Coffee extraction usually happens in a closed vessel where
| the volatiles aren't as exposed to air and can't as easily
| evaporate. The advantage of sous vide isn't just the cooking
| temperature but the fact that the ingredients are completely
| sealed. It has a significant impact on many ingredients like
| chicken or carrots, which can stew in their own juices
| instead of reducing.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| That's not necessarily true. A clever dripper does open air
| infusion and works great. Ditto with pour overs. But
| perhaps with oil more volatile aroma compounds are
| released? Either way the only solution is to try it!
| matthewmorgan wrote:
| Since I caught covid my sense of smell//taste is reduced so much
| that I put hot sauce on everything.
| nimbius wrote:
| I use Korean red pepper flake, the same type I use in my kimchi,
| and it had provided fabulous results. I generally build on
| flavours like spring onions and lots of garlic first, pulling
| them out before leaving black cardamom Sichuan green chilis (for
| a more woody note) star anise cinnamon and coriander seed for a
| brighter aroma. I also mix black vinegar and salt in with the
| chilis first before decanting the seasoned oil atop them. I make
| a litre at a time but can't ever keep it in the house. The whole
| effort is 1-2 hours but its mostly just watching the garlic and
| onion and making sure to pull it out before it burns. The
| decanting doesn't generate smoke or anything troublesome but
| beware, the smell of chili oil will permeate the kitchen for
| about three days.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| You tech bros just love to over complicate anything you can with
| a hint of pop science...It's chili oil, ask an old Asian lady, no
| need to "experiment".
|
| Why not plot your results in R while you're at it.
| curl-up wrote:
| Next time, instead of traveling, just ask someone who's already
| been there for a summary.
| mbg721 wrote:
| Indeed, travel writing is an entire genre. But I also get the
| gp's point, that especially with cooking it's easy to
| overcomplicate things while ignoring how the inventors
| actually worked.
| curl-up wrote:
| My point is that it is silly to complain about people being
| nerdy about a specific topic, just because there are others
| with more expertise. Especially in cooking, the concept of
| "inventors" and "authorities" for such basic things as
| chilli oil, is a strange one.
|
| For me personally, getting deep into a specific food item
| like this is bascally like traveling. I will first do my
| own experimentation, not because I think I will discover
| something new, but because I will more deeply understand
| why things are done the way they are when I (later) read
| "proper" sources and consult with others. At that initial
| stage, I am bound to overcomplicate things, but it's the
| good kind of overcomplication.
|
| It is like traveling to a new place, and walking around
| randomly before opening a map. Of course I
| "overcomplicated" my path from A to B, but I've seen so
| many interesting (but not necessarily important) things on
| my way.
| Aunche wrote:
| Old Asian ladies experiment too. Chili oil is very subjective
| so everyone has their own way to make it. They obviously treat
| it a lot more casually, but it's also common knowledge to them.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Totally agree. It's sad and they've lost the pulse of life and
| art
| notamy wrote:
| Some people derive joy from doing it this way. You or I may
| not agree with it, but that doesn't mean it's a wrong way to
| enjoy something.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| It's playing pretend, a form of instant gratification.
| That's fine as a kid, but otherwise it's just shallow and
| sad.
|
| The real food chemists at Lao Gan Ma already figured out
| whatever it is this guy is trying to prove.
| beefpies wrote:
| Having hobbies is not only infantile but "hollow and
| sad"? Very strange take.
|
| If it bothers you so much, don't engage with it. Taking
| time on a Sunday to write really nasty things about
| people sharing their hobbies on the internet doesn't seem
| especially full or joyful.
| pipeline_peak wrote:
| My take was on escapism not broadly having hobbies,
| you're just putting words in my mouth.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| It's just another way of experiencing life. For many of us,
| the joy of exploring things this way isn't about removing the
| life or art from it; it's another way of witnessing and
| experiencing the life and art of it.
|
| For example, I absolutely love aquascaping. I have a very
| scientific understanding and appreciation of it all, but it
| doesn't diminish how incredible and beautiful it all is for
| me. Some people look at it from a very aesthetic point of
| view, and to me it's often like some glorious chemistry and
| biology event occurring in front of me. I marvel at the fact
| that the nitrogen cycle is happening in this little slice of
| biotope. I love to test the water parameters and log what's
| been going in and out to better understand how it's working.
| I make nerdy little movies of the plants and animals. But
| you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who loves it
| significantly more, or finds it more beautiful in more
| meaningful ways. I just process it differently.
|
| With the chili oil, understanding and experimenting with it
| can be part of how a more cerebral person engages with their
| appreciation, curiosity, or passion about the oil. Nerding
| out might just mean the person really loves it, and that's
| how they go about it. It's all good. Maybe they'll figure out
| a bad ass recipe that'll make the rounds eventually, and
| everyone can enjoy it.
| michaelteter wrote:
| With regard to the health risks many comments note, I wonder how
| many natural (collaborative, so to speak) ingredient mixes might
| contribute to positive food safety despite the known threats.
|
| For example, I had a roommate who would cook salmon in a tomato
| sauce and leave it to sit overnight. From my background, this
| sounded like obvious death, but he assured me it was a common
| recipe in South Africa. I did try it, and it was delicious. I had
| no adverse reactions after eating it (a full day after it was
| cooked and left sitting in the pan).
| throwaway892238 wrote:
| Why would this concern you more than anything else? If you cook
| the fish, it's not going to "go bad" as quickly as if it were
| raw. If you cook anything to a particular temperature and time,
| it should kill most bacteria in it. Then the acidity of the
| tomato should help resist bacterial growth a wee bit longer
| than something pH-neutral. On top of all this, "obvious death"
| from bacteria in food is some serious hyperbole; it's quite
| rare to die of food poisoning.
| civilitty wrote:
| _> it 's quite rare to die of food poisoning._
|
| I'd go so far as to say it's virtually unheard of for healthy
| adults to die of food poisoning from cooked food going bad*.
| It's mostly children, the elderly, and the immunocompromised
| that are at risk. The fast majority of microbes that cause
| food born illness are really common in our environments and
| we've built up plenty of immunity.
|
| * fecal contamination and other toxins like paralytic
| shellfish poisoning are another matter
| ciceryadam wrote:
| There's another kind of chilli oil, pressed from Hungarian spicy
| paprika/capsicum seeds:
| https://rubinpaprika.com/magolajok/fuszerpaprika-magolaj-csi...
|
| It has a deeply nutty flavor and the spiciness is a bit sneaky,
| but it's a great addition to finishing oils.
| jmspring wrote:
| When visiting various countries in Europe (Italy, Spain, etc)
| I've run across the equivalent of farmers markets where they have
| varying types of infused oils. The oils often have the
| seeds/herbs/etc. in the bottle. I wonder what method these
| vendors use.
|
| I know people who have simply put herbs/peppers/etc directly into
| oil and go with that method. I've not heard of them getting
| botulism, but maybe it was luck.
|
| When looking into this awhile back, I ran across this article -
| https://extension.psu.edu/how-to-safely-make-infused-oils - I
| have yet to try the recommendations here in and wonder about the
| impact on flavor.
| justusthane wrote:
| I've only heard of garlic in oil being a botulism risk. Are
| other veggies dangerous too?
| jmspring wrote:
| The article I linked to mentioned that fresh herbs could be a
| source as well. The article from OP mentions peppers can as
| well. So, I guess one has to be careful.
| fiddlerwoaroof wrote:
| I wouldn't do this myself, but theoretically heating the
| oil relatively high for a while before consuming would
| destroy any toxin buildup. The other route would be adding
| enough acid to prevent botulism from growing, but I think
| that can be a bit tricky.
| plaguuuuuu wrote:
| botulism is pretty resistant to heat.
|
| ph, salt.
|
| im sure a high purity ethanol also
| ac29 wrote:
| > I know people who have simply put herbs/peppers/etc directly
| into oil and go with that method. I've not heard of them
| getting botulism, but maybe it was luck.
|
| According to the CDC, food-borne botulism is pretty rare, just
| 21 cases in the US in 2019:
| https://www.cdc.gov/botulism/surv/2019/index.html
|
| That being said, it can be fatal so certainly it wouldn't be
| advisable to take the risk.
| scarmig wrote:
| My "recipe" is simply caiziyou and erjingtiao, hot flash method,
| and it works well enough.
|
| One thing the author misses about the oil choice: what makes
| caiziyou superior to other oil choices is that it has a high
| viscosity. That results in the chili oil sticking to food and the
| tongue better once used; it probably also affects the fluid
| dynamics of the frying step in a way, though I can't say if it's
| significant.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| Ooh I'd never heard that! I will say there is something magical
| about caiziyou. It's so nutty and roasted and beautifully dark.
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| They talk about about how hot infusing causes the chili's to
| suspend in oil, I wonder if you could incorporate using a popcorn
| cannon somewhere in the infusion process.
| elderlybanana wrote:
| My favorite chili oils take the chilis just beyond a perfect
| maillard "sear" and venture very slightly into burnt territory.
| Many peppers have a natural bitterness when dried, and that
| slight bitterness added from the barely burned flavor brings out
| some extra, magical, umami depth. Adding some acidic elements
| makes for some incredible dishes.
|
| I have found that smoked chilis lose their smokiness with high
| heat though. I wonder if doing a lower heat extraction might
| retain those smoky flavors. Sounds like the multiple
| extraction/blend the author talked about would be worth a shot to
| get both.
| mortureb wrote:
| I agree. Indian cooking uses a lot of flavored oil as "tadkas".
| Spices (cumin, coriander, garlic, mustard etc.) including whole
| red chillies are brought up to temp in a small metal bowl with
| ghee over a flame and then added to the final dish.
|
| I've made chili oil this way and it seems to draw out more
| flavor and there's the slight burnt flavor that I love.
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