[HN Gopher] Fireball over Iceland
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       Fireball over Iceland
        
       Author : politelemon
       Score  : 187 points
       Date   : 2023-09-17 08:19 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (apod.nasa.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (apod.nasa.gov)
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | Even after reading the FAQ (which is excellent:
       | https://www.amsmeteors.org/fireballs/faqf/) I'm not quite clear
       | why a meteor would be a fireball versus not being one. Is it
       | simply about size, or something in the composition?
        
         | naavis wrote:
         | It is just about the brightness. Answer number 1 in the FAQ
         | states:
         | 
         | > A fireball is another term for a very bright meteor,
         | generally brighter than magnitude -4, which is about the same
         | magnitude of the planet Venus in the morning or evening sky. A
         | bolide is a special type of fireball which explodes in a bright
         | terminal flash at its end, often with visible fragmentation.
         | 
         | Or was your question why are some so bright? That is mainly a
         | function of size and speed.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | Could it also be composition? eg. Mainly water vs mainly rock
           | vs rock with particular metallic impurities?
        
             | jl6 wrote:
             | Meteors are very small. The bright light comes mostly from
             | the molecules of atmosphere in front of the meteor being
             | compressed, heated, and ionized[0] - essentially from the
             | friction of the high-speed meteor entering the atmosphere.
             | 
             | I guess if the meteor was a ball of pure magnesium, it
             | might glow brighter, but there isn't so much oxygen up at
             | that height, so my no-calc-gut-feel estimate is that this
             | would contribute orders of magnitude less brightness than
             | the glowing atmospheric molecules.
             | 
             | [0] https://www.amsmeteors.org/meteor-showers/meteor-faq/#3
        
             | uoaei wrote:
             | To the extent it's about composition it's probably mostly
             | about how long the meteor holds together so it can retain
             | velocity and the surface can stay hot enough to glow. A
             | bunch of small pieces decelerate faster than one big piece.
             | Compositional changes would only change the color somewhat
             | but likely not enough to be worth commenting on.
        
         | alfiopuglisi wrote:
         | Mostly size. Ordinary shooting stars are grain-of-sand sized,
         | and what you see is actually the superheated air that they
         | displace coming in at 10+ km/s. Something slightly bigger, like
         | a rock a few cm wide, can cause a blinding fireball.
         | 
         | Speed also counts. It can range from 8 km/s (a "stationary"
         | object, relative to us, falling into Earth's gravity well) to
         | about 70 km/s (something in a retrograde orbit in the Earth's
         | plane). That's a factor of almost 80 in energy to be dissipated
        
           | mcpackieh wrote:
           | From Britannica:
           | 
           | > _Meteors are the result of the high-velocity collision of
           | meteoroids with Earth's atmosphere. A typical visible meteor
           | is produced by an object the size of a grain of sand and may
           | start at altitudes of 100 km (60 miles) or higher. Meteoroids
           | smaller than about 500 micrometres (mm; 0.02 inch) across are
           | too faint to be seen with the naked eye but are observable
           | with binoculars and telescopes; they can also be detected by
           | radar. Brighter meteors--ranging in brilliance from that of
           | Venus to greater than that of the full Moon--are less common
           | but are not really unusual; these are produced by meteoroids
           | with masses ranging from several grams up to about one ton
           | (centimetre- to metre-sized objects, respectively)._
           | 
           | I think if you consider light pollution around populated
           | areas and the fact that most people don't spend much time
           | looking at the sky carefully, most of the shooting stars
           | actually noticed by most people are larger than sand,
           | probably more like tiny gravel than sand.
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | How big would such a meteor be, more or less, to generate such
       | glow? Is there a way to estimate it?
        
         | ls612 wrote:
         | 10 meters was the size of the Chelyabinsk meteor which caused
         | significant damage on the ground from its air burst. I'd guess
         | significantly under that size then since this doesn't appear to
         | have done anything other than make a pretty light.
        
         | Aachen wrote:
         | One metre does it
         | 
         | I saw this one from 500km away and it was easily the most
         | impressive thing I've seen in my life:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_CX1 It says that was 1m in
         | mean diameter, but also weighed 1Mg, which seems like a lot but
         | when I look it up, a spheric m3 of aluminium is already heavier
         | than that (1.4Mg) and iron would be 3x heavier still
        
         | ericbarrett wrote:
         | In a peer comment's link to the video, the videographer
         | estimates this one was the size of a tennis ball. A typical
         | meteor you might catch out of the corner of your eye on a dark
         | summer night is the size of a rice grain.
        
           | ethanbond wrote:
           | That's bonkers
        
             | User23 wrote:
             | Good old p=mv. And that v can be pushing 70 km/s thanks to
             | the combined motion of the Earth and the meteoroid.
        
       | bboreham wrote:
       | Would like to know what time this happened - I was in Iceland
       | looking up at the sky that night, but didn't see the meteor.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | 22:35, presumably Icelandic timezone because the comment (at
         | https://youtu.be/GHHitRCagcE) containing this timestamp says
         | "We were in Hofn watching the northern lights when we saw it"
        
       | robga wrote:
       | Video https://youtu.be/GHHitRCagcE
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | Sounds like they were just about to pack up and leave, and then
         | this happens. Spectacular, and incredibly lucky that they got
         | to see it like that. Not to mention those northern lights look
         | great. I should go to Iceland some day.
        
         | Aachen wrote:
         | The video shows northern lights for the most part. I like that
         | it's a video and you can see people move stuttery/stop-motion.
         | Typically, northern lights are posted as picture and you have
         | no idea what it was really like irl. I saw it once in Finland
         | and thought it was clouds very faintly moving against the night
         | sky. "Too bad," I thought, "if there were lights then this
         | obscured them". The next morning I saw pictures where it looked
         | like the most spectacular thing: those "clouds" _were_ northern
         | lights! Here at least, it 's obvious that the exposure time per
         | frame is cranked up because we don't perceive people as
         | stuttering during the night.
         | 
         | (Later I saw the lights properly in Iceland, but it was still
         | just a faint green haze. Can be mistaken for city glow at a
         | glance, but if you look for a bit it becomes clear that it's
         | moving slightly and too green. Again less than what one might
         | be lead to expect)
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | That's not always the case. I saw them in Iceland and yes,
           | they were faint one day (such that only my camera could see
           | them), but another day they were really bright, and they
           | looked like waves in the sky, changing very quickly. It
           | depends on the day.
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Aurora that looks grey is simply too feint for your eyes to
           | perceive the colour[0][1]. One way you can confirm whether
           | what you're seeing is aurora or not, is to take a picture
           | with a digital camera. Camera sensors can discern the green
           | (or whatever) hue, whereas the cones (which perceive colour)
           | cannot pick up such dim light.
           | 
           | Once the aurora becomes stronger, you can absolutely see
           | shockingly-vibrant green, pink, purple, and other colours,
           | literally streaming/swirling/dancing across the sky. It's an
           | unforgettable experience. I hope you have the chance to see
           | this at full-strength sometime, and I absolutely recommend
           | seeking it out if possible. (extra-recommended to watch while
           | sitting in an outdoor hot tub at midnight in -10*C in
           | Iceland, of course!)
           | 
           | [0] https://www.neworld.com/blog/2018/aurora-borealis-and-
           | our-ey...
           | 
           | [1] https://futurism.com/how-we-see-the-aurora-borealis-
           | camera-v...
        
           | mlindner wrote:
           | I've seen the northern lights once before with my own eyes
           | and no you cannot mistake them for "clouds" or "city lights".
           | You unfortunately probably saw a very faint version, probably
           | low to the horizon.
           | 
           | And no I wasn't even in the far north. It was during a solar
           | storm and I was in my own backyard in southern Michigan.
        
           | bjornasm wrote:
           | Don't go into the trap to think that all northern lights are
           | that faint. Iceland are pretty far South in many ways, in
           | addition the intensity varies. Sometimes it is just
           | spectacular, a lot more spectacular than on pictures.
        
           | patall wrote:
           | Sorry mate, but you did not see them properly. In February,
           | we had some that looked like in the video to the naked eye.
           | And I was in the outskirts of Stockholm, so neither that
           | remote nor that far north. Obviously doesn't happen that
           | often, though the locals weren't bothered much.
        
             | Aachen wrote:
             | I know it gets better than what I saw in general, but this
             | was about three months of being in Finland and Iceland
             | cumulatively (both times during fall). Figured that's the
             | best most people can hope to see, at least without
             | specifically going very far north at the right time of year
             | for this specific purpose, and so the pictures just aren't
             | representative of what you are likely to see while in these
             | countries
        
               | hydrok9 wrote:
               | I live in Winnipeg, way south of Finland, and I've seen
               | spectacular northern lights not far from here.
        
               | bjornasm wrote:
               | >Figured that's the best most people can hope to see(...)
               | so the pictures just aren't representative of what you
               | are likely to see while in these countries
               | 
               | Its quite wrong to assume your three month experience is
               | representative for what you would expect to see of
               | northern lights in Iceland and Finland.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | I don't think most people's holidays are going to be
               | longer? Not sure what makes you say that. I understand
               | one might get lucky or unlucky, are you saying my 3
               | months happened to be extremely unlucky and therefore
               | it's "quite wrong" that this can be extrapolated to an
               | average experience when visiting the countries?
        
           | dagurp wrote:
           | They always look better in pictures. Even a cheap camera
           | phone will take a good picture of them.
        
         | jharohit wrote:
         | 1:06 - what is moving in the top right quadrant of the video
         | amongst the stars?
        
           | alfiopuglisi wrote:
           | Probably a satellite in low-earth orbit. They only take a few
           | minutes to go from one horizon to the other. Since it is very
           | bright, I am guessing it is the ISS.
           | 
           | Update: Iceland is too far north (64degN) to see the ISS (max
           | 51.6degN). Too bad.
        
             | lucb1e wrote:
             | Was about to say, northern lights are not in the south as
             | seen from Iceland so ISS would not be probable. It should
             | be possible to figure out what high-inclination object was
             | in the sky at the right time of day (it needs to reflect
             | sunlight) on September 13th as the video description says
             | it was shot on
             | 
             | Edit: _or based on the fireball timing_ , mister detective
             | here just realised. The comments even say "Is it possible
             | that it was on 12.09.2023 at 22:35? We were in Hofn
             | watching the northern lights when we saw it" and a reply
             | confirms it
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-17 23:01 UTC)