[HN Gopher] Why Apple put a Thread radio in the iPhone 15 Pro
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Why Apple put a Thread radio in the iPhone 15 Pro
Author : CharlesW
Score : 32 points
Date : 2023-09-14 16:58 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| lxgr wrote:
| It'll probably never happen, but I would absolutely love to see
| P2P messaging on the iPhone.
|
| I've been in so many situations where that would have been
| useful: Sitting in different rows on the same flight or train,
| driving in two cars in the middle of nowhere and coordinating
| toilet/food breaks, finding each other in a mall/store abroad
| without roaming data...
|
| AirDropping a note back and forth kind of works, but is a real
| pain compared to what must be easily possible even with Blueooth
| alone.
| pharmakom wrote:
| They made an sdk for this but nothing really came of it.
| rubatuga wrote:
| Firechat, famously used during the Hong Kong 2015
| demonstrations
| rubatuga wrote:
| Funny how pictochat had this feature 15 years ago, although
| mainly used to send NSFW drawings
| mcphage wrote:
| > Sitting in different rows on the same flight or train,
| driving in two cars in the middle of nowhere and coordinating
| toilet/food breaks, finding each other in a mall/store abroad
| without roaming data...
|
| I can imagine a lot of interesting & valuable uses for that--
| but I think it would get entirely taken over by network
| parasites like ads or unsolicited dick pics.
| crtasm wrote:
| Seems like it could default to only allow people on your
| contact list?
| lxgr wrote:
| Absolutely - and you'll want encryption and authentication
| too. Apple could just make it work for existing iMessage
| chats only, where the devices already have the appropriate
| keys exchanged.
| jackdeansmith wrote:
| Didn't know I wanted it, but I now really want P2P iMessage
| between mountain summits
| brundolf wrote:
| Seems like it would be really easy for them to just add it to
| iMessage. It already seamlessly transitions between data and
| SMS as needed; just add a third possibility
|
| Would not be surprised if one day they announce on stage that
| this is going to just start working for the last X generations
| of iPhone
| yellow_lead wrote:
| I think you can definitely find apps for this. A quick google
| brings up bridgefy.
| lxgr wrote:
| Yeah, but these don't really work in my experience.
|
| The advantage of a first-party solution would be being able
| to normally message, i.e. the recipient not having to have
| the app already open, mesh support in the background etc.
| exabrial wrote:
| I'll write a dissenting opinion, feel free to disagree: It's not
| only about Smart Devices, it's a direct shot at the Garmin ANT+
| Ecosystem and capturing the fitness market.
|
| Take Cycling: ANT+ Radio is the defacto standard for cyclists
| sensors. Everything from power meters to heart rate monitors use
| ANT+ because of its incredible battery life, ease of
| connectivity, and low latency. Yes there are BLE versions of
| everything, but they absolutely suck batteries. I change the
| batteries in my speed/cadence sensors maybe once every 18 months.
| Apple proved it can already reach these battery lifetimes with
| AirTags.
|
| Apple typically enters a market and destroys competitor markets
| by introducing a new protocol and only supporting the new
| standard, fragmenting the market, then holding out until
| competitors run out of cash, at which point they can do whatever
| they way.
|
| They're often quite successful with this, although they recently
| had to admit defeat with USB-C.
| snotrockets wrote:
| ANT+ is still wildly used, but most (if not all) recent models
| of sport sensors has both ANT+ and BLE radios.
| parker_mountain wrote:
| > Yes there are BLE versions of everything, but they absolutely
| suck batteries.
|
| > Apple proved it can already reach these battery lifetimes
| with AirTags.
|
| And they did it with BLE.
|
| Thread is on 2.4ghz and on its way to becoming a de facto
| standard by basically be included in every major bluetooth SOC
| for free. Simple as. I don't think this is some direct
| strategic move, so much as a general movement of the industry
| that Apple will capitalize on.
| kritiko wrote:
| It's definitely a strategic move inasmuch as Apple is a
| sponsor of Thread.
| lxgr wrote:
| Is there really a meaningful theoretical difference between BLE
| and ANT in battery life, or are these just inefficient
| implementations?
|
| BLE can definitely last for many months on a CR2032 battery, in
| my experience - I use cheap Bluetooth thermometers/hygrometers
| with a Raspberry Pi running Home Assistant like that.
| jdietrich wrote:
| _> Yes there are BLE versions of everything, but they
| absolutely suck batteries._
|
| That's just not true. ANT+ is rapidly moving towards
| obsolescence because of the popularity of BLE. ANT+ is a
| proprietary standard controlled by Garmin, so the rest of the
| industry (i.e. Garmin's competitors) have eagerly embraced an
| open alternative. Nearly all current-generation fitness sensors
| support both BLE and ANT+ and have indistinguishable battery
| life with either. If you're implementing an ANT+ sensor in
| 2023, your only reasonable choice of chip is the Nordic Semi
| NRF52/53 series, which also has BLE and Thread support. BLE is
| essentially a freebie for the manufacturer and offers a lot of
| extra value to the customer, which is why even Garmin sells
| dual-standard ANT+/BLE sensors.
| duskwuff wrote:
| > They're often quite successful with this, although they
| recently had to admit defeat with USB-C.
|
| Painting this as an adversarial scenario doesn't really hold up
| to scrutiny; Apple was heavily involved in the development of
| USB-C.
| akhosravian wrote:
| The kind of comment that probably goes with someone being
| outraged apple ships a USB-C only laptop in 2015. Arguably
| they kick started adoption of usb C by creating an early
| market for USB-C peripherals.
|
| Companies aren't cartoon characters that only do good or bad
| things, and they also aren't monoliths with a single brain
| making coherent decisions.
| acdha wrote:
| The other thing is support costs. People sometimes
| criticize Apple for sticking with Lightning apparently
| unaware that it predated USB-C by multiple product
| generations: once you've shipped hundreds of millions of
| anything and have a bunch of third-party vendors, switching
| is going to be unavoidably slow and messy.
| solardev wrote:
| But they were simultaneously making Macs and ipads with
| usb-c?
| acdha wrote:
| Not for years. Lighting came out before USB-C was
| standardized.
| DannyBee wrote:
| It was not?
|
| Part of the deal to get them to use the connector was that
| nobody would say apple wasn't involved.
|
| This actually led to a particular journalist giving them
| credit for it despite them having nothing to do with it.
|
| They participate now.
| tw04 wrote:
| >It's not only about Smart Devices, it's a direct shot at the
| Garmin ANT+ Ecosystem and capturing the fitness market.
|
| I guess anything is possible, but as a Garmin and Apple fan I
| just don't see it happening. When the Apple Watch Ultra is
| bragging about 36 hour battery life, I don't see how they push
| Garmin out of the fitness market. Garmin watches measure their
| battery life in weeks (or MONTHS in low power mode) - I can't
| see my primary fitness device being a paper weight if I forget
| to charge it for one night.
| vuln wrote:
| > I can't see my primary fitness device being a paper weight
| if I forget to charge it for one night.
|
| I just throw my ultra on the charger while I shower. 20-30
| minute charge. I haven't had the watch completely drop to 0%
| in its entire lifespan ~1 year 8 months. It's simple and I
| never think or worry about it. I also have almost all
| notifications turned off on the watch. It helps with
| distractions and battery life too!
| afavour wrote:
| > I can't see my primary fitness device being a paper weight
| if I forget to charge it for one night.
|
| But Apple Watch owners are already very used to charging
| their watch every night. I think the aim would be that your
| "primary fitness device" is the watch you already have for
| other purposes, so while it's not a direct attack on Garmin's
| product line they'd be hoping to vacuum up a lot of casual
| users who might otherwise have bought a Garmin device.
| exabrial wrote:
| I just got back from 7 days in the wilderness with my Epix
| Gen2 51mm. I have 72% battery life left.
|
| Would have been higher but I used the built-in on it
| flashlight several nights.
| perryizgr8 wrote:
| Already new samsung models are omitting ANT+. Every Galaxy
| flagship until the S10 had it, but my S23 doesn't. So I think
| the ANT ecosystem might have been going downhill on its own
| already.
| hamandcheese wrote:
| > One possible use for Thread in the iPhone is that it could be
| used as a Thread border router.
|
| Great, so internet-of-shit devices can bypass your firewall and
| keep spying on you and serving ads.
| lxgr wrote:
| This is already possible, see for example Amazon Sidewalk [1].
|
| If you don't trust a given device, don't bring it into your
| home at all; simply not actively connecting it to your Wi-Fi is
| no longer enough to reliably keep it offline.
|
| [1] https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-
| Sidewalk/b?ie=UTF8&node=213281...
| solardev wrote:
| A device you buy and trust today can easily be used against
| you later on
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