[HN Gopher] A CD Spectrometer (2006)
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       A CD Spectrometer (2006)
        
       Author : wcrossbow
       Score  : 192 points
       Date   : 2023-09-13 08:26 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cs.cmu.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cs.cmu.edu)
        
       | msk-lywenn wrote:
       | Does using a DVD or Bluray instead of a CD improves the result?
       | The angle might have to be different?
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | Here's a video showing the construction of one based on the same
       | principle, but using a camera for wavelength measurement:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3MzQ1OF3lk
        
       | 1-6 wrote:
       | I've been checking the quality of my light sources for years
       | using a CD (florescent vs LED vs incandescent). Didn't DIY'ers
       | know this technique for years?
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Using a 0.2 mm slit? Or do you have an easier way that uses
         | just the CD?
         | 
         | First I've ever heard of it, and I went pretty deep into the
         | rabbit hole of spectrum when I switched to LEDs in my home.
         | Don't think this is very common knowledge.
        
         | TacticalCoder wrote:
         | How does that work? Are you using a CD to tell if one
         | fluorescent bulb is better than another? Or to tell if one bulb
         | is LED or incandescent or ...?
         | 
         | > Didn't DIY'ers know this technique for years?
         | 
         | I used to live in a rural area (fixing everything in the house
         | by myself) so I'm quite the DIYer but I don't know anything
         | about that!
        
         | jonhohle wrote:
         | I've been wanting to check my lights and didn't know about
         | this.
         | 
         | A few years ago we had several cans replaced with solid state
         | LED fixtures and my wife has had a lot of trouble with sleep
         | which roughly correlates. It may be placebo, but it seems like
         | she also may get better sleep when watching an OLED TV vs an
         | LCD iPad. It made me wonder if we should put 460nm filters on
         | our ceiling lights.
        
       | tecleandor wrote:
       | Oh, for a while Public Lab's Paper Spectrometer [0] was very
       | popular in "citizen science" workshops or forums. It was made
       | peeling the diffraction grating of a DVD-R (not a +R) disc.
       | 
       | It's a fun thing to do in an afternoon.                 0:
       | https://publiclab.org/wiki/papercraft-spectrometer
        
       | anfractuosity wrote:
       | I recently got a spectrometer with a fibre input from fleabay,
       | which I've been enjoying playing with.
       | 
       | I got a tiny ruby stone and shone a tungsten halogen light behind
       | it - https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/ruby.png I could see a
       | dip around 694nm like someone else's spectrum -
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_laser#/media/File:Ruby_tr....
       | This is the same wavelength that ruby lasers emit light
       | apparently.
       | 
       | I'm planning on using it to try to measure ABV of beer/spirits. I
       | noticed some of the cuvette holders with fibre inputs seem to be
       | crazy expensive though, so probably need to DIY that!
       | 
       | A while ago I got a little spectroscope that looked a bit like -
       | https://shop.wf-education.com/science/op66595.html. And simply
       | attached to a camera, to generate graph from.
        
         | HerculePoirot wrote:
         | A $500 DIY near-IR spectrometer that would sell for $10,000
         | 
         | https://caoyuan.scripts.mit.edu/ir_spec.html
        
           | anfractuosity wrote:
           | Looks very impressive!, thanks
        
           | qwertox wrote:
           | Current discussion:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37498142
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | What sort of wavelength of sensor do you need for ABV
         | measurements? Size of ethanol particle? Half it because of
         | Nyquist? Or what does it have to relate to?
         | 
         | I'm just wondering how fancy vs. DIY you need for that sort of
         | purpose basically.
        
           | anfractuosity wrote:
           | This is the paper I've been looking at -
           | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3356901/ they
           | make use of a tungsten lamp and IR leds, I tried with just a
           | tungsten lamp and only really saw a plateau around 900nm when
           | ethanol was present. Their spectrometer goes further into IR
           | than mine, mine tops out around 1000nm, but hopefully I'll
           | still be able to get some results when I add IR LEDs.
           | 
           | I'm not sure what the peaks correspond to regarding the
           | ethanol molecule though afraid. It's been a while since I
           | read the paper, but maybe that indicates this.
           | 
           | I believe my spectrometer just has a linear CCD sensor.
        
         | qwertox wrote:
         | FYI, the ruby.png image is 19200 x 14400 pixels big. Luckily
         | it's mostly white.
        
           | anfractuosity wrote:
           | Thanks for the heads up, just regenerated the graph
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | Hey, try heating up that ruby! It'll turn darker as the bandgap
         | moves toward the IR. You can shift your dip with a hair drier.
         | 
         | It should move from ~1.15eV at room temp 75F/25C to ~1.10eV at
         | 120F/50C, which should be about 35nm longer.
        
           | anfractuosity wrote:
           | Ooh, cool! Will definitely have to give that a shot.
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | And here I was, thinking this was about circular dichroism!
       | 
       | Cool article nonetheless..!
        
         | higginsc wrote:
         | same! I was excited to see something so esoteric from my grad
         | school days come up
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Constructing a spectrometer using a CD_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10285117 - Sept 2015 (9
       | comments)
        
       | symmetricsaurus wrote:
       | In my high school physics class we measured the pitch between the
       | tracks of a CD using the same principle. You just need a light
       | source with a known wavelength, like a laser. It was a pretty
       | cool experiment!
        
         | SamBam wrote:
         | What's the pitch between tracks?
        
           | tmearnest wrote:
           | 1.6 mm
        
             | SamBam wrote:
             | Ah, I see. Multiple meanings of both "pitch" and "tracks"
             | on a music CD.
        
         | anfractuosity wrote:
         | That sounds a fun project :) I tried a little peeling of a CD-R
         | under a microscope, where can see the tracks, I should try and
         | measure the pixel distance and convert to track width -
         | https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/cd-r.JPG
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | what microscope are you using? i've been itching to get into
           | microscope photography for a new hobby, but because i know
           | myself, it'll be a fun but expensive rabbit hole. i've been
           | deliberately putting off on researching because i also know
           | myself and will be just as likely to be shopping than
           | researching
        
             | anfractuosity wrote:
             | It's an Olympus BHM that I got cheaply from ebay. It's a
             | trinocular metallurgical microscope, that I added an old
             | SLR to, for that photo. I noticed the semi-silvered mirror
             | seems rather scratch though, so might need to look at
             | replacing that.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | are you attaching the camera directly with an adapter, or
               | is it projecting on to whatever lens you are using? i
               | guess i'm coming at this thinking of it in terms of
               | astrophotography using T-adapters to connect in place of
               | on eyepiece vs taking an image from the eyepiece
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | Either works, but trust me, the trinocular part is far
               | superior, ergonomically. You do need to know whether you
               | want a metalurgical scope or a compound light
               | transmission scope. The former is good at looking at
               | opaque samples, the latter for transparent samples
               | (biological stuff mostly).
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | that is something i have considered, but not known what
               | terms to use to look it up. i would love to be able to
               | look at opaque things in a highly magnified way, so the
               | lighting issue is something i had in the back of mind. i
               | do like the biological stuff in hopes of possible
               | timelapse to show growth.
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | This is what I have for general opaque and transparent
               | stereo viewing: https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-
               | SM-4TZ-144A-Professional-Trin...
               | 
               | then I get this illuminator:
               | https://www.amazon.com/AmScope-LED-6W-Powerful-Gooseneck-
               | Ill... for top-down viewing, and it can be adjusted for
               | bottom-up illumination.
               | 
               | Then you can buy samples- microscope slides, petri dishes
               | and samples,f rom places like Carolina Biological.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | You're my hero!!! I hear Santa's sleigh bells now!
        
               | anfractuosity wrote:
               | In the trinocular port, there's an eyepiece, which I
               | forget the magnification of afraid. And to that port I
               | added this - https://www.alanwood.net/olympus/photomicro-
               | adapter-l.html and then used an OM to EF mount converter,
               | which the Canon camera directly attached to.
               | 
               | I've since bought a microscope imager, that provides an
               | output over USB. But I think I need to remove the OM
               | converter, and get a shorter adapter to successfully
               | attach to the microscope C-Mount.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Thanks for that. I was hoping that would would be
               | possible. I think I now know what to ask Santa for xmas!
        
           | chankstein38 wrote:
           | This is an awesome picture! Forgive me if this is a stupid
           | question but are we seeing 0s and 1s here? Is that what the
           | black is? Kind of the equivalent to a morse code dit (0) and
           | dah (1)?
        
             | andruby wrote:
             | That not a stupid question. It's a bit (ha!) more complex.
             | These are called pits and lands.
             | 
             | > The pits and lands do not directly represent the 0s and
             | 1s of binary data. Instead, non-return-to-zero, inverted
             | encoding is used: a change from either pit to land or land
             | to pit indicates a 1, while no change indicates a series of
             | 0s. There must be at least two, and no more than ten 0s
             | between each 1, which is defined by the length of the pit.
             | This, in turn, is decoded by reversing the eight-to-
             | fourteen modulation used in mastering the disc, and then
             | reversing the cross-interleaved Reed-Solomon coding,
             | finally revealing the raw data stored on the disc.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#Physical_details
             | 
             | These encoding types are used to improve the "tracking" of
             | the laser head, and to keep the timing consistent. We want
             | the medium to regularly have changes between pits and lands
             | to synchronise the timing and speed of the disc. The
             | encoding scheme enforces this.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-return-to-zero#NRZI
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-to-fourteen_modulation
        
       | peter_d_sherman wrote:
       | Absolutely and utterly brilliant!
       | 
       | I would have never in a million years thought of this use for a
       | plain old CD... but yes, after reading this article, yes, I now
       | see how a CD Spectrometer could indeed work!
       | 
       | Again, absolutely and utterly brilliant!
       | 
       | Upvoted and favorited!
        
       | wcrossbow wrote:
       | At my current company we build satellites with imaging
       | spectrometers as payload and wanted to propose building a bunch
       | of this on our upcoming team day. I was hoping for the non-
       | technical team to get a better feeling of what is that we are
       | trying to sell.
        
         | diracs_stache wrote:
         | Can you give a hint without doxxing yourself?
        
       | lasermike026 wrote:
       | Oh my word, that's awesome!
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-13 23:00 UTC)