[HN Gopher] iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus
        
       Author : mikece
       Score  : 461 points
       Date   : 2023-09-12 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | nb_key wrote:
       | Zero innovation, miss the Steve Job's days when people were
       | shocked by Apple products. I believe their M chips their most
       | innovative thing in a long time.
        
         | ChicagoBoy11 wrote:
         | I'd have to concur... like at a time where I thought the
         | diminishing marginal returns for CPUs on computers had really
         | kicked in (like, there's only so much speed I need for web
         | browsing), the M1s came along and made me go "holy shit", even
         | while still, in fact, web browsing.
        
       | beisner wrote:
       | Annoying that it's not Thunderbolt 4...
        
       | branon wrote:
       | If they do an iPhone SE with USB-C, I'll switch to it from
       | Android. Screenshot this.
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | So I guess thats a naw for stacked battery tech. Wonder if the
       | S24 will feature it.
        
       | SpacePortKnight wrote:
       | iPhone 15 looks better than 15 Pro. I wish the base 15 had a
       | higher refresh rate.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | beebmam wrote:
       | I despise Apple products and I despise Google products, for very
       | different reasons. Can't we get an alternative? Bring back the
       | Windows phone! Or a Blackberry!
        
         | gpt5 wrote:
         | Unfortunately, you can't launch a phone without an app store,
         | and there are only two options. Hooray to network effects.
        
         | ponkipo wrote:
         | I still remember my Lumia 820 with warm feelings, Windows Phone
         | was such a nice OS...
        
           | snazz wrote:
           | I had a Lumia 830 until the bitter end (of security updates--
           | 2019 I think) and I agree it was really nice to have a third
           | competitor. But I also got it back out of the drawer the
           | other day and was reminded of how buggy it was, especially
           | after the upgrade to Windows 10 Mobile (on my phone I had a
           | nasty memory leak that made the browser unusable after going
           | a few days without rebooting, and an issue where photos you
           | just took would get deleted if you viewed them immediately
           | after pressing the shutter without waiting a few seconds). I
           | also think you can't print with it, at least not without a
           | third-party app, so AirPrint on the iPhone was very nice for
           | me.
           | 
           | Definitely ahead of its time in certain UI concepts,
           | definitely didn't get the attention it deserved to iron out
           | some big defects!
        
       | blitz_skull wrote:
       | "The most 'pro' iPhone we've ever created"
       | 
       | Did they uh... even listen to this?
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | Honestly for me the best part is the USB-C.
       | 
       | Every year it's a new camera, new whatever, but USB-C is going to
       | mean I can get rid of all these lightning cables.
       | 
       | Not increasing the price is nice, I guess. Will have to buy more
       | USB-C cables, though. (Technically the low highest end phone is
       | higher, but higher spec, too).
       | 
       |  _It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable_ - not sure if
       | it is a data cable, also.
       | 
       | Pre-order Friday, delivery 22 Sept. Probably going to move on it
       | just to get that USB-C, need to see what carrier deals I can
       | find.
        
         | pzo wrote:
         | Do yourself a favour and just buy a magnetic adapter + cable
         | such as Baseus magnetic zinc [1]
         | 
         | You will:
         | 
         | - save money to buy new phone (cable costs just ~10$)
         | 
         | - it's magnetic so even more convenient to use
         | 
         | - magnetic adapter protects connector from dust getting inside
         | or getting broken
         | 
         | - you use the same cable with adapters for usb-c, lightning and
         | micro-usb to charge different gadgets (even older airpods pro)
         | 
         | - at least baseus cable supports both fast charging (20W) and
         | data transfer (usb 2.0)
         | 
         | If cable brakes (at it did brake for me after ~1 year of use)
         | you just buy new one for 10$ instead of new phone for 1000$.
         | Keeping old phone is the most environmentally friendly option.
         | 
         | non-pro iphone 15 usb-c is still just 2.0 speed and most likely
         | doesn't support usb-otg
         | 
         | [1] https://www.amazon.in/Baseus-Magnetic-Multipurpose-
         | Retractab...
        
           | yellow_postit wrote:
           | This is just buying into yet another new standard which seems
           | ultimately wasteful.
           | 
           | I'm glad it works for you but I personally am glad we're
           | trending towards usb-c, at least for the next couple of
           | years, across most devices.
        
             | pzo wrote:
             | I'm still glad they are moving to usb-c but not going to
             | clap my hands to Apple for that - but will clap EU for
             | that. (will clap even more if EU with clab Apple with
             | baseball bat with new battery repair law).
             | 
             | However if still someone consider buying this new iphone
             | only for usb-c it's a good alternative to keep old phone
             | and save money (since there was almost no innovation since
             | iPhone X especially in non-pro models).
        
           | Klugistiono wrote:
           | Doesn't really matter. I would even argue that its more
           | environmentally friendly to switch expensive phones more
           | often.
           | 
           | (of course just a thought but!)
           | 
           | IF people can buy a cheap phone or an expensive but older
           | phone, the older phone still works often better than a new
           | cheap phone. So when he 'upgrades' the old phone gets reused
           | and saves one cheap phone.
        
           | Al-Khwarizmi wrote:
           | So the idea is that you leave the adapter plugged to the
           | phone port at all times and then use the magnetic cable. You
           | need one adapter per device, right?
           | 
           | (Sorry if questions are naive, I've never seen one of those).
        
             | pzo wrote:
             | That's correct - I keep adapter plugged all the time (they
             | are very slim) to my iphone 13 mini (but worked great even
             | with my iphone xs) and another to airpods pro, micro-usb to
             | my logitech mouse, and usb-c to my vape and android phone
             | (I'm mobile dev). I just bought 2x such cables so that I
             | have 2x lightning adapters and bought few to my family as
             | gift so it's easy to share.
        
             | kmarc wrote:
             | Yes. I am using such adapter for many years now, every
             | single device of mine are charged with the same cables.
             | Headphones, keyboard, mouse, phones, portable speakers,
             | iPad, android, simply everything. Quite convenient!
        
           | deely3 wrote:
           | Hi, how long did you use it? I bought some knock-off version
           | of magnetic adapter and it broke in a few weeks of active
           | use, so I very curious about your expirience with it.
        
             | pzo wrote:
             | I have been using it for around 1.5 years. I'm iOS dev and
             | nomad so I use it intensively every day. Definitely more
             | often than typical user that plugs just 1-2 times a day -
             | since I just don't like wireless Xcode debugging
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | I believe magsafe charges slower than the port, and I've also
           | heard concerning things about the long term effects wireless
           | charging has on battery health.
        
             | Bluecobra wrote:
             | I'm sure there is plenty of anecdotal evidence out there
             | that goes either way on this. I have an iPhone 11 Pro Max
             | that's almost 4 years now that I wirelessly change every
             | night and the battery health is 83%. I think that's pretty
             | good for a device I constantly use every day. I'm still on
             | the fence on getting a battery replacement from Apple while
             | I still can, as this phone is still perfectly fine for my
             | needs.
        
               | paint wrote:
               | I'm in the same boat except that i bought one used.
               | Battery health was also at 83% when i bought it, don't
               | know what its now but lasting a full day so i dont care.
               | 
               | What do you mean "while you still can"? Will they
               | discontinue battery replacements for the 11 at some
               | point? At 80EUR its a no brainer once the battery does
               | start to deteriorate more
        
               | paint wrote:
               | Its fine for everybody's needs - unless youre shooting
               | weddings or movies or something no one needs to spend
               | 800+ USD on latest iphone, they can just buy one from a
               | few gens back for less than half of that
        
               | Smoosh wrote:
               | I have similar anecdata. My iPhone X still has 88%
               | battery capacity. It still easily lasts a full day of
               | light/intermittent use and gets charged each night on a
               | wireless charger. The battery life is now noticeably
               | shorter in cold weather.
        
             | pzo wrote:
             | magsafe (the one apple call in iphone) is wireless charging
             | and yeah it charges slower. But this magnetic charging with
             | adapter is still wired connection and fast charges (20W) so
             | it's faster and probably safer for battery. This more
             | behaves as magsafe macbook connector (which is wired).
        
           | jug wrote:
           | I'm too scared of these slow and long charging things
           | wrecking my battery life over two years of consistent use.
        
             | dieortin wrote:
             | If anything, slow charging is better for the battery.
        
           | arjvik wrote:
           | I loved my magnetic adapters, got them off of amazon for
           | quite cheap. The same "brand" didn't produce tips that fit
           | lighting AND usb-c, but by carefully looking at the product
           | images I found two "brands" that seemingly used the same
           | design and had compatible tips.
           | 
           | The problem was, though, that the magnets were too weak -
           | they would constantly disconnect
        
           | ThrowawayR2 wrote:
           | I've tried similar devices and they're only good for
           | charging. Try to push any data through it and there will be
           | all sorts of slowdown and erratic data transfer issues.
        
             | pzo wrote:
             | I'm iOS dev - I use such cable for data transfer
             | (programming via Xcode) every day. Also no problem with
             | syncing images with photos.app. Also no problem with fast
             | charging - I recommend some well known brands.
             | 
             | But if you need usb 3.0 speed then you will need new iphone
             | 15 _pro_
        
           | chickenpotpie wrote:
           | Do not use those cables under any circumstances. They're not
           | safe. The USB spec is not designed to accommodate chargers
           | like that and they're a fire/device ruining hazard. Get a
           | good usb-c cable from a reputable manufacturer.
           | 
           | Hackernews comment that put it better than me.
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35436727
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | I've had (a different brand) of magnetic adapter break
           | devices (it wasn't a cheap one either, it was the most
           | expensive and highest rated at the time).
           | 
           | Something about the USB circuitry doesn't like how the
           | magnetic adapters partially connect sometimes. I don't
           | pretend to understand the failure mode but I have a very
           | funky Valve Index controller now.
        
           | meesles wrote:
           | I wouldn't recommend this.
           | 
           | I bought into the 'Volta' ecosystem and the adapters started
           | degrading within 6 months. I would only trust a product from
           | a major electronics producer, not these random brands on
           | Amazon. If none of the big players have this as a product, it
           | smells of a reason why it isn't a thing. Otherwise, I really
           | wanted it to be. I hate the damage plugging cables in and out
           | of devices does to the phone's power sockets over time.
        
           | amarshall wrote:
           | > If cable brakes [sic]...you just buy new one for 10$
           | instead of new phone for 1000$
           | 
           | Who is buying a whole new device if the cable breaks?? One
           | still just buys a new cable...
        
             | pzo wrote:
             | I mean if connector brakes inside your phone - I had 2
             | iphones that was hard to charge even after cleaning the
             | port. The idea is that you keep adapter inside the phone
             | all the time so iphone female connector doesn't brake
             | because of constantly plugging in and out charging cable.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | Android pre USC-C had this problem bad since there was
               | that little piece of metal in the middle of the port that
               | had to make contact and it always got bent.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | USB-C is less prone to this because the part that breaks
               | is inside the cable now.
        
               | crimsontech wrote:
               | No it's in the phone now, unlike how it was with
               | lightning cables.
               | 
               | You could stick a toothpick inside a lightning port on a
               | phone to remove pocket lint, you can't do this with USB-C
               | without a higher risk of damaging the phone.
               | 
               | USB-C on the phone side has a protrusion that slots
               | inside the cable end the same as previous usb cables.
               | This is the fragile part, but it's still a big
               | improvement over micro usb.
        
             | stevenwoo wrote:
             | Before wireless charging/data xfer/debugging one had to
             | physically plug the phones in for development in addition
             | to wear and tear from charging so I've worn out the micro
             | usb ports on many android devices.
        
             | xen2xen1 wrote:
             | I'm another voice for the "charging ports break all the
             | time" brigade. I've replaced enough myself I'll look into
             | this for me and my family.
        
               | m-p-3 wrote:
               | You could also go the MagSafe/ Qi2 way, which is safer
               | and officially supported.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | It's worse for the battery though, because it heats up
               | more while charging. Or rather, to compensate for that it
               | has to charge slower to keep the battery safe.
        
               | throwanem wrote:
               | And $60 per charger.
        
               | m-p-3 wrote:
               | You don't have to buy the "official" one.
        
           | ppljudge wrote:
           | Who buys a new phone if the cable breaks?
        
         | eatyourglory wrote:
         | Are you gonna buy a Pro model or a base one?
        
         | filleokus wrote:
         | The USB-C port (even on the non-pro) supports Display Port
         | though, which I think can be quite useful if you pair it with
         | an external mouse and keyboard and have apps that support
         | "extended screen" mode [0].
         | 
         | For example I know of https://shiftscreen.app which is like a
         | fake desktop environment, and the Microsoft RDP client added it
         | last week. I think Github Codespaces or any of those services
         | could probably make a pretty usable experience. Just plugging
         | in the phone in your usb-c monitor and get to coding, could be
         | pretty sweet in some scenarios.
         | 
         | [0]: If you just mirror the screen you'll get black bars and
         | the resolution won't be optimal etc, but apps can render
         | directly to the external display customising the resolution for
         | that monitor. Like how Photos.app behave, not showing the app
         | chrome on the external display.
         | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/windows_and_...
        
         | RandallBrown wrote:
         | I'll need to buy new AirPods too, unless I want to carry a
         | lightning cable around too. Or just always use wireless
         | charging with them.
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | And get new iPhones and Airpods for the rest of the family...
        
             | teekert wrote:
             | I really hope you are kidding. Can't say. Many people are
             | ditching perfectly good tech these days...
        
               | newaccount74 wrote:
               | Yes, obviously I was kidding.
               | 
               | I'm looking forward to the day when I need to pack only
               | USB-C cables when we go on family vacation, but it's
               | still going to be a couple of years until we replaced the
               | last device with lightning port (especially iPads seem to
               | last forever).
        
           | kaba0 wrote:
           | Because it is so hard to charge them like every 5 days or
           | more at home where you have a litany of cables laying
           | around..
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | my AirPods came with a USB-C to lightning, so that will still
           | work with the phone to charge on the go
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I've been using mostly wireless charging with my current
           | phones; and watch (you have to there) mainly because the
           | lightning port would usually be the first thing to die.
           | 
           | I wonder if they'll sell cases alone for existing AirPods.
        
             | Schweigi wrote:
             | I keep my iPhones for many years before buying a new one
             | and never had the lighting port die. What happens though is
             | that the port gets dirt inside and stops working. There are
             | tiny brushes (available on Amazon) which solve it and the
             | port starts working again.
             | 
             | Nevertheless still good that now only one cable is required
             | - especially since the iPad and iMac use USB-C as-well.
             | 
             | Not sure what to do with the AirPods - hopefully the
             | wireless charging directly from iPhone 15 will make it
             | unnecessary to have to carry the cable for the pods.
        
               | JohnBooty wrote:
               | This is my experience as well.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | If you have AirPods with wireless charging, you can charge
           | them off your iPhone, it sounds like.
           | 
           | But I'll be carrying around a USB-A to Lightning cord when
           | I'm traveling anyway, since hotels/airplanes/airports are
           | still on USB-A.
           | 
           | EDIT: Looks like I was confused by this brief description,
           | and they were just saying that you can plug the peripherals
           | into the iPhone. NBD.
        
             | aidos wrote:
             | Wait, what??
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure I heard them mention that during the
               | iPhone 15 segment. I could be wrong though.
               | 
               | EDIT: yep, per Ars Technica, you can now charge your
               | Apple Watch or AirPods off the iPhone 15:
               | https://live.arstechnica.com/apples-
               | september-12-2023-wonder...
        
               | tamimio wrote:
               | Through the cable not wirelessly
        
               | pshc wrote:
               | I wonder how much energy is lost when charging
               | wirelessly.
        
               | porkloin wrote:
               | They don't support wireless charging from phone to
               | airpods. That would be great, and is available on some
               | android devices. This was referring to being able to
               | charge your airpods or watch by plugging them into your
               | phone with a cable.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Oh, that's silly. If I had a charge cable with me I'd
               | also have my computer or iPad, which I can use to charge.
        
               | cguess wrote:
               | You might... but most people won't? A cable slips into a
               | purse easily for a night out or something.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | There is a zero percent chance that I would ever want to
               | boost my AirPods case, (which I charge every few days)
               | while draining my iPhone (which I charge daily). If I had
               | an Apple Watch, I would not bring the puck charger with
               | me anywhere. I don't think that "most people" would; a
               | subset of iPhone users have purses, and a subset of
               | iPhone users have Apple Watches. I'm pretty sure the
               | intersection of those two subsets is not even close to
               | the majority of iPhone users.
        
               | dboreham wrote:
               | The "charge iot thing wirelessly from phone" feature on
               | my Samsung phones for the past few generations isn't used
               | every day but it is useful every so often. E.g. go on a
               | trip but forget smartwatch charger. No problem the phone
               | can do it in a pinch. Or: family member gets their phone
               | wet causing it to not charge wired until it dries. No
               | problem my phone can charge their phone wirelessly.
        
               | wonnage wrote:
               | I think they're referring to plugging a usb cable into
               | the phone to charge a device.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | It might work without plugging in the iPhone, but I
               | imagine most times it would be plugged, overnight or
               | whatever.
               | 
               | This is honestly a pretty great feature, and actually
               | makes me more likely to buy an Apple Watch. I don't want
               | to have to bring another charge cable with me, and now I
               | wouldn't have to. I wonder what the charge speed is
               | though -- I wouldn't want to have to charge it overnight.
               | 
               | EDIT: Thanks for clarifying, it took me a while to
               | understand based on what they had said and what Ars
               | reported. I can see that it's just the same as how you
               | can plug any peripheral into an iPad and charge off its
               | battery. Now you can do the same with iPhone...big deal.
        
               | anamexis wrote:
               | No, I think you connect a cable from the iPhone's charge
               | port to the AirPod's charge port.
               | 
               | Apple's page says this under the USB-C section:
               | 
               | >The new USB-C connector lets you charge your Mac or iPad
               | with the same cable you use to charge iPhone 15. You can
               | even use iPhone 15 to charge Apple Watch or AirPods. Bye-
               | bye, cable clutter.
               | 
               | With a footnote that leads to this:
               | 
               | > The included USB-C Charge Cable is compatible with
               | AirPods Pro (2nd generation) with MagSafe Charging Case
               | (USB-C).
        
               | pests wrote:
               | Not to mention the Apple Watch takes a special rounded
               | magnetic charger.
        
               | pests wrote:
               | Not to mention the Apple Watch takes a special rounded
               | magnetic charger. I don't think it would interface
               | correctly otherwise.
        
           | scarface_74 wrote:
           | I carry these around. They are standard USB cables with USB A
           | and USB C on one end and USB C and Lightning on the other
           | end.
           | 
           | https://a.co/d/fxsaZ58
        
           | ls612 wrote:
           | Luckily the newer AirPods cases can charge from an Apple
           | Watch charger so I don't need to fiddle with cables.
        
             | wlesieutre wrote:
             | EDIT - disregard this, it's charging with cables only using
             | the iPhone as a battery
             | 
             | iPhone 15 will charge your watch and airpods from the back
             | of the phone, so you don't even need to travel with the
             | watch charging cable anymore.
             | 
             | Samsung did this already (branded as "PowerShare") so it's
             | the year of iPhone catching up on charging features.
        
               | reportingsjr wrote:
               | Where have you seen Apple mention this ability? In the
               | presentation they specifically called out being able to
               | charge airpods via iphone _with_ a cable, not wireless
               | charging between airpods and iphone.
               | 
               | I am surprised apple hasn't included this ability yet. My
               | pixel 6 pro also has this ability.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | Aah good catch, I misinterpreted it that way from the
               | arstechnica liveblog. You can charge them from the phone
               | using a USB C-to-C cable (airpods) or C-to-puck cable for
               | the watch. Not quite as convenient, but still good to
               | have.
        
           | meowtimemania wrote:
           | Maybe you could just get a new airpods usb c case?
        
           | quitit wrote:
           | Don't forget you can now plug your airpods into the phone
           | instead of needing a charger.
        
             | turndown wrote:
             | One of the features of my S10 I ended up loving is the
             | ability to charge my (wirelessly chargeable) headphones via
             | my S10 which can act as a wireless charger
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | The S10 line is long past its feature-updates timeline
               | and may have just received its last security update, so I
               | fear yours and my S10e are soon to be retired.
               | 
               | I will greatly miss the SD slot and headphone jack...
        
               | lmm wrote:
               | Sony still have SD slots and headphone jacks in their
               | top-line Xperias, I switched there from Samsung for
               | exactly that reason.
        
               | flipbrad wrote:
               | LineageOS works very well on the S10e
        
               | turndown wrote:
               | Yup! I actually intend to trade mine in for an iPhone 15
               | now that they finally have USB C.
        
               | terribleperson wrote:
               | Samsung peaked with the S10. I don't know what I'm going
               | to move on to when mine gets too long in the tooth.
        
             | babyshake wrote:
             | This might be asking too much, but it would be neat if the
             | phone was on a low battery (less than 10%), when you plug
             | in a peripheral like the Airpods it will know to instead
             | charge the phone from the plugged in device. Or for that
             | matter, to be able to plug one iPhone from another iPhone
             | without any risk of your phone's data being accessed.
        
               | quitit wrote:
               | Although it would be speculation, I imagine this will be
               | included because USB-C iPads already have this feature.
               | 
               | One can charge a range of devices, including other iPads
               | from a USB-C iPad. One can even change the charge
               | direction between the two devices.
               | 
               | Charging on these devices is independent from data
               | access. The user is prompted to allow data access which
               | requires authorisation.
        
             | chrisshroba wrote:
             | What do you mean? Wouldn't you still need a charger between
             | the phone and the airpods case?
        
               | robotresearcher wrote:
               | No.
        
               | keep_reading wrote:
               | It's charging off your phone battery which to me is crazy
               | considering how hard it is to replace the iphone battery
               | 
               | I don't want more cycles on a battery that isn't user
               | serviceable
        
               | Johnny555 wrote:
               | I assumed it was meant for occasional use by people on
               | the go (like on an airplane without a charging port) who
               | need to charge their AirPods case.
               | 
               | It seems unlikely that people will routinely charge their
               | AirPods from their phone when they could just as easily
               | use the same charger that they just charged up their
               | phone with.
        
               | quitit wrote:
               | The iPhone 14 battery is considered user serviceable (but
               | not the pro), the iPhone 15 pro has now adopted the 14's
               | design. Basically the rear panel is now straightforward
               | to remove, when before one had to go in through the
               | front.
        
               | selimnairb wrote:
               | I almost shouted "SCREWS!!!" when I saw them on the Pro
               | during the video.
        
               | dzhiurgis wrote:
               | > how hard it is to replace the iphone battery
               | 
               | its like 30 minute job, maybe less for pros
        
         | plugin-baby wrote:
         | Yay, I can throw away all my headphones again.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | I was really hoping Apple would tell the EU FU, and remove the
         | port altogether. Some sort of wireless data only or some new
         | port like magsafe, but for data.
        
           | dvngnt_ wrote:
           | how would that benefit consumers?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | They've done no ports on devices before. They've already
             | removed headphone jack. So how would it hurt consumers?
        
               | deergomoo wrote:
               | My car is old and cheap and doesn't have Bluetooth.
               | Needing to swap between Lightning and USB-C dongles when
               | my wife and I swap over music duties is annoying enough,
               | it'd be far worse if one of those was some magnetic thing
               | that could slide off when I try to prop the phone up in a
               | cup holder.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | I bought a PS15 adapter for mine
               | 
               | plugged in the back into the unused cd changer port
               | behind some carpet
               | 
               | took 2 mins to install, wish I had done it years ago
        
               | NikolaNovak wrote:
               | The removal of headphone jack is no longer a daily
               | hindrance to me, but it's become at best "every 3-4 days
               | I swear at my company-mandated iPhone for not having a
               | headphone jack" :)
               | 
               | If they remove all jacks, that's so many devices I own,
               | and use-cases I have, poof gone!
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I bought a lightning-headphone adapter, and may have to
               | get a USB-C to headphone one (assuming it works). Well
               | worth the expense, and you can just leave it connected to
               | the headphones/stereo.
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | "charging while using" is a pretty core use case. Are you
               | expecting people to buy a bunch of cords with big dongles
               | on the end? At that point the EU probably would still
               | have grounds to take action since "magnetic attachment
               | point port" isn't exactly "no port."
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | does using the magsafe charger prevent use while
               | charging?
        
               | ProfessorLayton wrote:
               | Yes, the Magsafe charger's cord is 3 feet long. Even if
               | it was longer it would be incredibly clumsy and awkward
               | to hold.
        
               | majormajor wrote:
               | If you're tethered to a cord that's attached to your
               | phone in a specific spot can you be said to not have a
               | "port" even without part of the cable going "into" the
               | case?
               | 
               | I suppose the lawyers would get paid a bunch to figure
               | out how flexible the definition of "port" in the
               | regulation would be. "Port" in networking is obviously
               | purely a concept vs a physical hole. "Port" in shipping
               | is also more conceptual, no two ports need share the same
               | layout.
        
               | rideontime wrote:
               | By removing the fastest and most reliable means of
               | charging and transferring data.
        
               | _ph_ wrote:
               | How would you connect your iPhone to HDMI for example?
               | Port charging is faster and more efficient than magsafe.
               | The USB-C data transfer speed is great for data exchange.
               | It is, afterall the "Pro" model.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I was kind of expecting the "lowest spec" one to be
               | magcharging only, but maybe that wouldn't really work
               | with a "low spec" and the high end ones use USB-C for
               | external drives and other things.
        
               | saiya-jin wrote:
               | Removal of the jack dramatically downgraded the quality
               | if you care about it, wireless protocols are simply no
               | match for high end audio. Suddenly ultra cheap phones
               | sounded _properly better_.
               | 
               | Of course marketing sold it as benefit, which for some it
               | was since they are ok with average quality. Considering
               | thick brick that current iphones are for quite some time,
               | space taken by port was never the issue, unlike stated
               | originally as reason for removal.
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | They have a dongle that is pretty nice. But why would I
               | want to run my really nice headphones with iPhone as the
               | source?
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | Not all "really nice" headphones are high-impedance, and
               | if they were a headphone amp isn't a source, it's an amp.
               | 
               | The source is the DAC and the DAC in that dongle is
               | better than most audiophile DACs are. Remember,
               | audiophile equipment is scams made by small companies and
               | iPhone dongles have bigger R&D budgets than their entire
               | industry.
        
               | robotresearcher wrote:
               | Is the DAC in the cheap dongle worse than the old built
               | in DAC?
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | You can't hear AAC compression artifacts. Or do you have
               | an ABX test?
               | 
               | And if you could, it'd be balanced out in outdoors use
               | cases by the lack of wired audio artifacts, namely cable
               | telephonics sending walking impacts into your ears.
               | 
               | Anyway, AirPods do support lossless audio now. (Well,
               | next year.)
               | 
               | https://www.apple.com/airpods-pro/
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | The removal of the headphone jack was incredibly
               | disappointing and frustrating for MANY consumers.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _removal of the headphone jack was incredibly
               | disappointing and frustrating for MANY consumers_
               | 
               | So was removing the CD drive. Or shunning Java on the
               | original iPhone.
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | 3.5mm jacks are still the standard for all wired
               | headphones and will probably outlive both Bluetooth and
               | iPhones.
               | 
               | Also the Macbooks still have it while the M1 didn't have
               | magsafe, so maybe let's not use Apple's decisions as
               | indication of obsolescence.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | and we can see that frustration in the drop in stock
               | price...hmmm
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Since when did stock value correlate with customer
               | satisfaction?
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Since when did Apple make decisions on consumer
               | satisfaction?
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | That's actually the CEO's catchphrase on earnings calls,
               | so.
        
               | internet101010 wrote:
               | A CEO's job is to maximize shareholder value. Sometimes
               | that aligns with customers, sometimes it doesn't.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | Goalposts: moved.
               | 
               | This is a really insane thread.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | You mean like how AAPL drops nearly every time they have
               | some kind of announcement? Yeah, I don't know if that's a
               | good indicator of customer frustration.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | What's wrong with having a standard serial port?
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | The iphone 17, now with a RS-232 DB25 port
        
               | Humdeee wrote:
               | We're not stopping until I can plug my phone directly
               | into my stove outlet
        
               | ruined wrote:
               | apple's chargers are already universal you just have to
               | swap out the plug
        
               | dmd wrote:
               | nobody's stopping you
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | smoldesu wrote:
               | Aw look, you're making the old 30-pin charger blush now.
        
               | rvnx wrote:
               | JTAG is the way to go.
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | Didn't I just read something about abusing the M1/M2 via
               | serial?
               | 
               | It was this!
               | 
               | https://www.tindie.com/products/aaafnraa/serial-adapter-
               | rebo...
        
         | glogla wrote:
         | > Honestly for me the best part is the USB-C.
         | 
         | Some people predicted that new iPhone will be completely
         | portless and allow wireless charging only, just to not having
         | to support USB-C out of spite.
         | 
         | I guess we'll need to wait a year or two more.
        
           | kaba0 wrote:
           | That was such a dumb prediction..
           | 
           | It just doesn't make sense to go wireless only, like even as
           | the presentation showed, there are great usecases for wires,
           | like moving data fast to external storage during video
           | recording. Also, charging is much much slower without a
           | cable, and then we didn't even talk about debuggibility,
           | servicibility, for no reason whatsoever. Apple is not hurt by
           | usb-c, they have been using it for many years on their own
           | dime. They just waited around so if anyone takes offense (see
           | other commenters) they can freely point their fingers at the
           | EU. They only were waiting around for a scapegoat.
        
           | HumblyTossed wrote:
           | Nobody believed it. Wireless charging just isn't there. Heat
           | and speed need to improve first.
        
           | dbbk wrote:
           | Those people were way off the mark anyway because there was
           | no rumor to support that and it wouldn't even make practical
           | sense.
        
           | ljm wrote:
           | The reason for USB-C was to adhere to a common standard.
           | Getting rid of the port entirely and depending on a MagSafe
           | charger is just the same as insisting on lightning, and you
           | would have to buy special cables or devices for it.
           | 
           | That wouldn't pass muster in the regulation.
        
           | ARandumGuy wrote:
           | That prediction always seemed premature to me. Wireless
           | charging still can't compete with USB fast charging for
           | speed, and cables are more portable then even the sleekest
           | wireless chargers. While I imagine Apple will ditch cables as
           | soon as they think it's feasible, I just don't think that's
           | going to happen for at least a few more years.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Ever since Jobs killed the floppy at the height of its
             | power, people have wanted to jump the gun on the next
             | "ubiquitous" thing Apple will kill off.
        
           | kriz9 wrote:
           | They need to keep USB-C until they figure out another way to
           | transfer large ProRes videos from the iPhone. Wifi is just
           | too slow.
        
             | kaba0 wrote:
             | But its like fundamental physics and it doesn't make sense
             | to ditch wires -- it will always take more energy and more
             | loss to transport anything in a medium of distant molecules
             | vs a tightly coupled one with interesting properties.
             | 
             | And for what benefit? That port is already water-proof.
        
               | HumblyTossed wrote:
               | > That port is already water-proof.
               | 
               | Resistant.
        
               | dbbk wrote:
               | Who cares? How many people are dropping their phone in
               | the ocean and retrieving it?
        
             | uf00lme wrote:
             | Probably see WiFi upgrades to laptops first before client
             | devices. So another year or two before that gets solved
        
           | johnmaguire wrote:
           | God, I hope not. For all the "eco-friendliness" they spouted,
           | this would be a step in the wrong direction.
           | 
           | I found it amusing that they tried to spin Magsafe as eco-
           | friendly too... because, uh, you can't use leather cases
           | anymore(?)
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | Yeah, certainly eco-friendly, if we forget about all the
             | energy losses :)
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | Exactly!
        
             | hindsightRegret wrote:
             | The cynic in me knows the real reason for them to be a
             | carbon neutral company is so that you don't feel bad
             | purchasing another one of their phones since it was
             | produced "neutrally".
        
             | glogla wrote:
             | According to my research (1) wireless charging increases
             | the consumption between 40 and 80 % depending on how well
             | you align the coils.
             | 
             | It would be very much Apple move to take something that
             | wastes enormous amount of energy (given the number of
             | people who have iPhones) and claim it is eco-friendly.
             | 
             | (1): I looked on Wikipedia for 30 seconds
        
               | datadrivenangel wrote:
               | Iphones use such a small amount of energy that doubling
               | the energy consumption is fairly negligible in the grand
               | scheme of things.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | Sounds like the same logic used for writing apps in
               | Electron. :)
        
               | datadrivenangel wrote:
               | 12.7Wh per battery for the iPhone 14, times a billion
               | iphones. Assume a worst case scenario of full battery
               | usage per day per phone, which gives us 5 billion watts
               | or 5 gigawatts.
               | 
               | Doubling that power use if everyone switched to low
               | quality wireless charging (50%) would require another 5
               | gigawatts, or a few thousand more wind turbines.
               | 
               | Bigger than I thought in a worst case scenario, but still
               | not too bad.
               | 
               | Especially if wireless charging prevents premature
               | replacement by reducing port failure, as the embodied
               | energy is estimated to to be the majority of the energy
               | involved in the lifecycle of a smartphone.
        
               | oceanplexian wrote:
               | Running an Air Conditioner in a small room for an hour
               | (~500Wh) uses the same energy an iPhone would take in ~40
               | complete charge/discharge cycles. Of course, the numbers
               | look big when you scale them up but as a percentage of
               | total energy use, it's marginal to non-existent.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | > Especially if wireless charging prevents premature
               | replacement by reducing port failure
               | 
               | Interesting. I wasn't aware this was a common problem?
               | It's not something I'm used to hearing about as an
               | Android user.
               | 
               | I'd be more interested in whether Magsafe or USB-C wears
               | the battery out sooner.
        
               | glogla wrote:
               | Back of the napkin: hundred million iPhones recharging
               | their 13 Wh battery once a day every day from zero to
               | full for a year is about 60 % the electric energy that
               | this power plant [1] makes in a year.
               | 
               | Not huge amount of energy, but not negligible either.
               | 
               | [1]:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agua_Caliente_Solar_Project
               | 
               | edit: I see someone else did the math as well.
        
               | datadrivenangel wrote:
               | Not negligible, but also a small cost of the total cost
               | of the iPhone system. call it 500 megawatts for 100m
               | iPhones, which for moderately expensive generation
               | capacity is ~ 2million per megawatt of capacity, works
               | out to $10 per phone in electricity. A typical power
               | plant has expected lifetimes of ~25-50 years, which if we
               | assume a generous 5 year phone lifespan, and a 25 year
               | plant life...
               | 
               | That works out to $2 per iPhone to build power plants to
               | charge the iphone every day for it's an entire life. Not
               | bad for a device that costs hundreds of dollars.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Now that it's become like the USB-C port on the iPad (at
           | least at high end) I doubt it will go away, but maybe the SE
           | will be replaced with a watch-like "no ports" phone someday.
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | I doubt we'll ever see that just because of how badly it
           | would screw over CarPlay users.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Which is a _lot_ of the people who have bought new vehicles
             | in the last 5+ years. And I can 't think of any way to work
             | around it that wouldn't (or at least couldn't) be some
             | horrendous kludge which probably wouldn't work very well.
             | 
             | I'd never say never obviously but dropping ports entirely
             | would have to be a terrible decision anytime soon. (And one
             | wonders what assurances Apple has made to auto
             | manufacturers adopting CarPlay.)
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | glogla wrote:
               | > terrible decision
               | 
               | I think you meant _brave_ decision.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | There's brave as in people whine because it's pushing the
               | envelope but it can be easily worked around (see
               | headphone jack) and there's brave in the sense of
               | foolhardy which I have to believe all wireless would be
               | in the next decade. (On a phone. Seems reasonable on a
               | watch especially one advertised as suitable for fairly
               | extreme conditions.)
        
               | masklinn wrote:
               | > And I can't think of any way to work around it that
               | wouldn't (or at least couldn't) be some horrendous kludge
               | which probably wouldn't work very well.
               | 
               | One could always dream of head unit updates for wireless
               | carplay support...
               | 
               | But according to some wireless carplay adapters do work
               | quite well so that might be an option:
               | https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/10/carplay-wireless-carplay-
               | adap...
               | 
               | Apple could even release an official one.
        
               | mikestew wrote:
               | Where "work quite well" means "latency". It's even a sub-
               | header in TFA linked above. It's the reason we didn't buy
               | a dongle for our new Hyundai Ioniq 5 (which inexplicably
               | still uses USB-A in 2023, and no wireless CarPlay),
               | because every single review for every single dongle _at
               | best_ said,  "...and the latency isn't all that bad." Oh,
               | it'll be bad for me if it's bad enough for a reviewer to
               | notice. Grabbing the cable when I get in the car isn't
               | _nearly_ as annoying as waiting for my button press to
               | register.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | My new Honda Passport was USB-A and no wireless last year
               | --but then I was happy to be able to get a car at all.
               | 
               | Not that CarPlay is a necessity of life but glitchy
               | CarPlay would be a pretty big negative for my experience
               | with a vehicle.
        
             | glogla wrote:
             | Could Apple perhaps sell you a $99 wireless wired CarPlay
             | dongle?
             | 
             | Maybe $199?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | johnmaguire wrote:
             | Wireless CarPlay is becoming pretty common.
        
               | Octoth0rpe wrote:
               | yes, but I've heard many, many negative things about it
               | (lag, slow charging, phone overheating, etc). I don't
               | think I've ever heard of anyone actually liking it.
        
               | MH15 wrote:
               | My car only has wireless Carplay, yet it supports
               | wireless and wired Android Auto. It sucks. The only thing
               | worse would not be having Carplay at all.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | Huh. We use it in our car and it works OK. I do know
               | other with the car who have issues with lag however.
               | 
               | Slow charging though... that seems orthogonal?
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | It's orthangonal until however you're charging it can't
               | keep up with demand. A 14 Max on a standard USB-A ->
               | Lightning connection is already really marginal. Like, I
               | can drive for an hour with waze running and the phone
               | plugging in (wired carplay) and it'll charge maybe 5%.
        
               | johnmaguire wrote:
               | What kind of amperage is your car putting out? Older cars
               | really struggle to power phones. In some cars, it's
               | possible to upgrade the USB port - otherwise, you may be
               | better off using the 12V port (cigarette lighter) since
               | you have wireless CarPlay available to you.
               | 
               | In my Fusion, I'm stuck using wired Android Auto, so I am
               | unfortunately not able to use the 12V port for charging.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | No clue, it's a 2017 model so reasonably new. It doesn't
               | even have a cig lighter.
        
               | dwighttk wrote:
               | Sounds like waze is the problem... I regularly drive all
               | day with Apple Maps, MagSafe charging, and Bluetooth
               | data. No issues keeping my phone charged
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | I think that's largely due to car manufacturers being
               | shit at software. The previous generation of my current
               | car was absolute trash when it came to CarPlay. Even the
               | wired version of it sucked.
               | 
               | The 2023 model had the entertainment system massively
               | upgraded. Wireless CarPlay is seamless and fast. The
               | wireless charging pad isn't amazing but it does the job
               | just fine.
               | 
               | I love wireless CarPlay now. :)
        
               | yellow_postit wrote:
               | Wireless CarPlay works great in our VW. What sucks is
               | that when Apple abandoned Qi wireless standard the
               | wireless charging pad in the car doesn't work well or
               | consistently with the MagSafe design.
        
               | mastercheif wrote:
               | Apple didn't abandon Qi... all wirelessly chargeable
               | iPhones are Qi compatible.
        
               | Klonoar wrote:
               | I had wireless CarPlay in my last car and every single
               | iOS update would brick the connection somehow. Eventually
               | muscle memory for just plugging in the damn phone took
               | over.
               | 
               | I suspect they have a few things to work out with regards
               | to CarPlay wireless connection(s) before they could
               | remove ports on the device, in addition to the other
               | comments on this thread.
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | Doesn't do anythign for the millions of people (self
               | included) that already own a car with wired carplay.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | I'm sure there will be a dongle for that.
        
               | massysett wrote:
               | There already are some:
               | 
               | https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/10/carplay-wireless-carplay-
               | adap...
        
               | camjohnson26 wrote:
               | There already are several wireless car play adapters for
               | under $100, I have one and it works perfectly
        
               | internet101010 wrote:
               | I honestly didn't know non-wireless carplay existed until
               | you said something. Everyone I know just keeps their
               | phone on a charging pad somewhere in the car.
        
               | JohnBooty wrote:
               | It fits a use case for some but it doesn't appeal to me.
               | 
               | - Plugging the phone in is so easy.
               | 
               | - With Wireless Carplay presumbably I'd have to futz with
               | the phone anyway if both of our phones are associated
               | with the entertainment system
               | 
               | - I still have to take the phone out of my pocket to put
               | it on the wireless charging pad. That is actually the
               | hassle, not plugging the phone in
               | 
               | - If I don't care about charging my phone, I assume my
               | phone is going to heat up in my pocket and drain the
               | battery while I'm doing Wireless Carplay stuff
               | 
               | - A lot of my driving is short 10-15 min trips. Can put a
               | pretty decent charge into my phone during that time with
               | the wired connection. Not with inductive charging.
        
               | fomine3 wrote:
               | Existing cars remain over a decade
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | My prediction is that Apple's going to introduce some sort
             | of "MagSafe Data" protocol -- some kind of high-bandwidth
             | NFC that runs through an autonomous controller chip that
             | comes up before the rest of the device, such that it can be
             | used to DFU-restore / JTAG / etc. the phone, just as
             | Lightning currently does.
        
           | derefr wrote:
           | I don't know about spite -- I feel like they were holding off
           | on moving the iPhone to USB-C for so long precisely _because_
           | they had already planned on going portless  "soon", and it
           | would have been silly to do two of these "brave" transitions
           | in quick succession.
        
           | jabroni_salad wrote:
           | recording your footage directly to external storage is kind
           | of a dependent feature though. They are angling on the
           | prosumer / low end commercial videography with that.
           | 
           | I suspect lots of people who would be happy to shoot on a
           | phone have upgraded to blackmagic specifically because you
           | can just swap the card and keep rolling.
        
         | the_other wrote:
         | > It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable - not sure if
         | it is a data cable, also.
         | 
         | This is why USB-C is a user-hostile spec.
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | This has always been possible with USB, its not anything
           | specific to the USB-C spec. I have several power-only USB
           | cables, in fact I even have a few USB-A to barrel cables.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | And it's considered a good thing for security, that's why
             | there are "USB condoms" for untrusted charging ports.
        
           | oynqr wrote:
           | Every compliant charging cable is a data cable.
        
             | knodi123 wrote:
             | where "compliant" is circularly defined as "supports
             | charging and data"?
        
               | mort96 wrote:
               | Where "compliant" is defined to mean "does the minimum
               | required by the USB spec and thus is legally allowed to
               | carry the USB logo and call itself a USB cable".
        
           | odensc wrote:
           | It's not an issue specific to USB-C. There are also plenty of
           | USB-A/Micro-USB cables that don't have the data pins
           | connected. Typically this is only an issue with super cheap
           | electronics that only use USB-C as a connector for power and
           | don't really follow the spec.
           | 
           | I haven't heard of a phone coming with a charge-only cable.
           | Especially because that cable is usually used for syncing to
           | a computer (iOS)/transferring data from an old phone
           | (Android).
        
             | dwaite wrote:
             | USB-C to C cables to spec need the data pins for USB 2 and
             | to support 30W. Beyond that it is cable-specific.
             | 
             | Unless an included cable came with a hard disk, monitor or
             | eGPU, you can be reasonably sure it is USB 2 speeds. If it
             | didn't ship with a computer either, it is probably 30W max.
        
             | riskable wrote:
             | Even "power" USB C cables can do data transfer. They just
             | do so at USB 2.0 speeds (like a lightning connector would).
             | 
             | Finding a _truly_ power-only USB C cable is difficult but
             | not impossible. It 's a special order.
        
         | throwaway858748 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | It's because only the 15 Pro has the new SoC with USB 3.
           | 
           | If we can extrapolate from last years update and this years
           | update, then next year iPhone 16 will get the A17 and also
           | get USB 3.
        
         | baq wrote:
         | Yup - finally ready to ditch the 2020 SE which, TBH, is still
         | good enough except the battery's toast and has been for half a
         | year at least.
         | 
         | (Worry not though dear mr. Cook, I'll pass it down to one of my
         | kids so the environment won't be hurting while the new toy
         | shows me which gate my CO2-spewing flight departs from. ;))
        
         | josephg wrote:
         | > It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable - not sure if
         | it is a data cable, also.
         | 
         | The USB-C charging cables can also carry data at USB2 speeds.
         | I'm pretty sure thats the limit of what the iphone 15 usb-c
         | port can handle. (Since they explicitly called out the iphone
         | 15 pro as having hardware support for usb3).
        
           | massysett wrote:
           | Yes, the spec sheet for the non-Pro 15 says it transfers at
           | USB2 speed.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | yodsanklai wrote:
         | Now if they can put back a jack port...
        
         | DarmokJalad1701 wrote:
         | The USB-C is tempting. The only other Apple devices I own are
         | all USB-C - Macbook Pros and an iPad Air. Maybe this will
         | finally get me to switch from my aging Pixel 3A. The idea of
         | dropping $800 on it is still a bit much though.
        
           | tcmart14 wrote:
           | If you are looking for an alternative because the 3A is
           | getting a little long in the tooth, I would say look at the
           | SE. It doesn't have USB-C, but its a damn good phone for
           | ~$400 (with probably 7-ish years of support). When I was
           | looking to upgrade from my 3A, its what I went to.
        
             | carstenhag wrote:
             | My company provided me an iPhone SE and it's such a bad
             | experience, I can't recommend it. Feels like it's from
             | 2010.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Yeah, you need to get another reason, really. I'm only
           | looking at it because my phone is physically shattered.
        
         | GloriousKoji wrote:
         | Might want to still hold onto those cables for the Apple magic
         | mouse, magic trackpad and magic keyboard.
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | you'll still need to buy proper cables because of compatibility
         | issues.
        
           | kroltan wrote:
           | Proper cables, yes, but generally a proper cable works with
           | improper stuff attached to it. You can charge your iPhone and
           | the dubious ebay air freshener or whatever with a proper
           | cable.
           | 
           | If you have two different connectors you invariably need at
           | least two proper cables.
        
             | tonymet wrote:
             | i wish it were true, but it's not. I have plenty of usb c
             | devices that only charge with low quality usb-A to usb-C
             | cables.
        
         | bit_logic wrote:
         | Main reason why I like this change: single cable in the car for
         | both Android Auto and CarPlay. It was so annoying having both
         | in the car.
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | The USB-C was supposed to do more than just allow you to change
         | cables. It was supposed to be a Dex-like, Docking Station
         | extensible pocket computer.
         | 
         | The iPad Pro is like that and their extended desktop is called
         | Apple Studio Display. https://support.apple.com/en-us/102286
        
         | dubeye wrote:
         | I don't get this at all. I use wireless pads in the house and
         | keep one lightening cable in the car. I don't think I'll notice
         | the difference
        
           | lostapathy wrote:
           | Magsafe charger on a Ram mount has been a huge win for me in
           | the car. It charges, and it's got a predictable place instead
           | of wherever i drop it.
        
         | brundolf wrote:
         | I was literally about to buy a 14 last fall, then the rumor
         | about USB-C came out and I decided to wait another year just
         | for that
         | 
         | Edit: Lol, eternally fascinated by what causes some people to
         | downvote on here
        
         | dzhiurgis wrote:
         | > It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable
         | 
         | IDK why Apple supplies these tbh. They are crap, break easily
         | and are far too short.
         | 
         | Invest in good 6ft kevlar braided cables with stainless steel
         | pins. They'll last you years.
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | > but USB-C is going to mean I can get rid of all these
         | lightning cables.
         | 
         | that's something i never cared about. whether i carry 1 usbc
         | and 1 lightning or 2 usbc, it's still 2 cables.
        
           | mgsk wrote:
           | Crazy idea: now you can carry one cable.
        
             | kalupa wrote:
             | only if you want to charge things one by one ...
        
             | sneak wrote:
             | The cable I carry is a trident cable with USB A on one end
             | (with a tethered a-c adapter) and lighting, micro, and C on
             | the other end.
        
             | HumblyTossed wrote:
             | Can already do that. I have an adapter tethered to the
             | cable.
        
             | saiya-jin wrote:
             | Even crazier - outside US its massively easier to find usbc
             | cable compared to lightning. I hope those frequent days
             | when some (usually the same but now always) colleague is
             | running desperately around the office interrupting
             | everybody looking for one will be finally over.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I don't understand this. When traveling internationally
               | I've never had a problem locating a Lightning cable.
               | 
               | Though I have to mention, you shouldn't really shop for
               | cables when you're traveling and need a new one. First
               | stop by the front desk, they usually have a huge pile of
               | charging cables people have left behind.
        
               | prmoustache wrote:
               | Anyone who has worked in an office outside of the USA has
               | experienced the annoying iphone user asking everyone for
               | a cable to charge his phone because he lost/broke/forgot
               | it.
               | 
               | And not all the offices are close to a shop selling those
               | kind of things nor do these persons feel they might be
               | better off going shopping for one directly instead of
               | disrupting a non negligible amount of workers.
               | 
               | I don't even know why people have to charge their phone
               | midday and can't wait. Even when I am going out and
               | extending the night until dawn, I usually have battery
               | left until I go to bed.
        
             | not_your_vase wrote:
             | I have a feeling that he wasn't carrying the USB-C cable
             | because he expected some kind of guerilla-connector-change
             | suddenly on the iPhone in his pocket, but it is being used
             | with another device.
        
             | kmlx wrote:
             | what if i've got multiple devices that need charging at the
             | same time? like i always do all the time when travelling.
        
               | wds wrote:
               | If one breaks, then the other cable can carry both.
        
           | bondant wrote:
           | But if you know you won't need to charge them simultaneously,
           | then you can only carry one cable.
           | 
           | For instance, I'm happy that my new laptop can charge on
           | usb-c, so now I don't need you bring a charger for my switch
           | and a different one for my laptop. I just take the smallest
           | one and charge my laptop and switch with it (but not at the
           | same time). I'm happy to know that I will be able to ditch
           | the lightning cable for my next apple smartphone and only
           | keep a single cable for my three devices.
        
         | Reason077 wrote:
         | > _"It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable - not sure
         | if it is a data cable, also."_
         | 
         |  _All_ USB-C cables must support USB 2.0 480 Mbps data
         | transfer, at minimum. There's no such thing as a USB-C cable
         | that doesn't support data.
        
           | c0pium wrote:
           | Of course there are, they're sold as "privacy" or sometimes
           | "security" cables.
           | 
           | To be clear, "juice jacking" is not a thing anymore, but
           | people are still foolishly worried about it so there's a
           | market.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/PortaPow-NA-USB-C-Data-
           | Blocker/dp/B08...
        
           | xen2xen1 wrote:
           | Oh my, lots of cheap cables don't support data. Buy a $15 set
           | of wirlesss Earbuds and check them.
        
         | CHSbeachbum420 wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | dagaci wrote:
           | I dropped $1400+ on iPhone 14 (with the apple care thing),
           | but TBH I was disappointed, iOS/iPhone used to be ahead of
           | Android in terms of OS and usability.
           | 
           | Now it just felt like the hardware is wasted on iOS. I still
           | have the old Android phone, and instinctively use that rather
           | than dealing with iOS. Next device is definitely going to be
           | an android.
        
           | ericmcer wrote:
           | its $799. Also if you are an apple fanboy you probably have a
           | 13 or 14 which you can trade in to bring your total price to
           | <$400. Not a crazy tab for something you use 40 times a day.
        
         | iguana_lawyer wrote:
         | USB-C means you'll still have different cables with different
         | speeds for different devices but now they'll all look the same.
        
         | esotericsean wrote:
         | Curious what other devices people have that use USB-C? The only
         | one I have is my Nintendo Switch. So for me, this is mostly an
         | inconvenience having to get new cables for my phone. I'll miss
         | Lightning.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Isn't the Switch some "almost USB-C but not quite" thing? I
           | remember issues with that.
           | 
           | Most everything is moving _towards_ USB-C but it 's slow; I
           | want Milwaukee and them to have more USB-C charging devices
           | for the smaller battery charged things.
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | Nintendo Switch, iPads, M2 MacBook Pro, HP work laptop,
           | external san disk SSD, Jabra Headset, and USB C MagSafe
           | batteries.
           | 
           | I wish my Garmin bike stuff had USB C.
        
             | kbrackbill wrote:
             | > I wish my Garmin bike stuff had USB C.
             | 
             | Same, my last non-usb C devices are my inreach and edge
             | 500. I guess it's a testament to how long they last.
        
             | steelframe wrote:
             | My Wahoo Elemnt Roam has USB-C. If you're willing to
             | consider other manufacturers than Garmin.
        
           | dotnet00 wrote:
           | At this point I don't have any portable electronics which do
           | not use USB C (kind of by design, I have so many USB C cables
           | and almost no microUSB left and don't want to buy more of the
           | latter) and only have a handful of things in general which
           | still use MicroUSB.
           | 
           | So, my phone, tablet, steam deck, power bank, bluetooth-to-
           | wired audio adapter, all use USB C. Same with any of the
           | laptops I'm looking at getting. Thus, all I ever need to
           | carry is a power brick, a USB C hub, a C-to-C cable and an
           | A-to-C cable and it'll be sufficient for everything.
        
           | missingcolours wrote:
           | - laptops with USB-C charging (MacBooks)
           | 
           | - Android phones (our family collectively has 2 Android
           | phones and 2 iPhones)
           | 
           | - iPad
           | 
           | - wireless headphones
        
           | gbear605 wrote:
           | My headphones, laptop (MacBook), work laptop (also MacBook),
           | Nintendo Switch, external hard drives, and external battery
           | all use USB-C. None of these were intentional switches for
           | me, just the default option. At this point, my phone is the
           | only cable I have that isn't USB-C, so this will be super
           | convenient.
           | 
           | My partner's phone (an Android) is already on USB-C, so this
           | will also let us share cables, which is a huge plus.
        
             | Matl wrote:
             | > laptop (MacBook)
             | 
             | The fact that people talk about how integrated the Apple
             | ecosystem is, yet you needed an adapter to connect its
             | phone to its laptop says it all.
        
               | piperswe wrote:
               | You didn't need an adapter, just a cable. In recent
               | years, that cable came included with the iPhone. And it's
               | the same cable used for charging the phone.
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | It doesn't matter whether the adapter is stubby or long
               | (like a non-adapting cable), it still cost like $20 for
               | no reason, despite being "such a well integrated
               | ecosystem"
               | 
               | When it came to apple, that kind of stuff has always been
               | pure puffery and marketing anyway. "Their hardware is the
               | best" people would say, while their computers sat at 100%
               | fan, choking under the strain of running basic apps with
               | no real cooling, while the user worked around a stuck "C"
               | key and being careful with their inflating battery.
        
           | stratom wrote:
           | Bike lights, shaver, Laptop, flash drive, YubiKey, power
           | bank, ANC-earbuds, custom built HW, a few Dev boards, ...
        
           | Matl wrote:
           | Laptop, Steam Deck, DAP, Kindle, battery bank, ANC earbuds
        
           | hotnfresh wrote:
           | Most things I have and still use, use usbc for charging or
           | power. Or lightning.
           | 
           | Peripherals, usb-a is still what you usually get, just going
           | by what's common on store shelves. Just got a new kit at work
           | a few weeks ago--all these brand-new devices are made to plug
           | into A, even if the other end is usb-c. They come with A-to-c
           | cables, or else are A-only. In the former case, I can at
           | least fix it by just using c cables I already have.
           | 
           | But, overall, the peripheral world _as most people experience
           | it_ is still A-first. C options are usually more expensive,
           | may be part of why.
        
           | hennell wrote:
           | I have phone, tablet, headphones, laptop, steam deck,
           | graphics tablet, art light box, and various battery chargers
           | and camera lights & accessories that all use usb C. Kindle
           | and Fitbit is about the only thing I use that's not USBC I
           | think.
        
           | munk-a wrote:
           | For me it's Steam Deck, Soundcore Headphones, Phone (I use
           | android), Laptop and Pill Dispenser (a medical device). It's
           | nice just to grab my high speed steam deck charging brick and
           | a spare USB-C to keep all that stuff in charging rotation
           | overnight when out of the house.
        
           | Klugistiono wrote:
           | Laptops (Work MacBook and a Thinkpad) and i do not use the
           | magic thingy for charging. My phone and my switch. And i used
           | those things on travels surprisingly often.
           | 
           | Do you use lightning for charging your phone when traveling
           | and mag save for your macbook?
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | iPad, MacBooks, Chromebooks, Nintendo Switch, and basically
           | every IoT gadget and other toy that used to use Micro-USB,
           | for the last couple years they've all been USB-C. Even the
           | cheapo stuff. I was ecstatic to throw away all but one (just
           | in case) Micro USB cable I had. I won't jump for joy getting
           | rid of Lightning cables, but OTOH I won't miss them either.
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | Nearly every single device I use regularly that can be USB
           | powered is USB C at this point. Just from looking around, my
           | mouse, my Android phone, both my work and personal laptop, my
           | Switch, my portable speaker, my headphones, my iPad, my
           | Raspberry Pi, and even my Pokemon Go Ball.
           | 
           | At this point I actively avoid buying any devices that are
           | not USBC because there is an alternative to any product I
           | could want. Products shipping with micro USB in 2023 are
           | almost always indicative of a cheap product or an old product
           | that hasn't received any meaningful updates.
           | 
           | The only glaring examples are Apple phones/accessories, which
           | I avoid, and sadly fitness devices. My water bottle and watch
           | both have proprietary connections, I assume because a water
           | proof USBC connection is just not feasible on small devices.
           | Hopefully some kind of standard gets established there as
           | I've had products that look like they have very similar
           | connections that almost fit but they don't actually charge.
        
           | givinguflac wrote:
           | For me I've got my Nintendo Switch, headphones, soon my new
           | phone, and a vape that all charge on USB-C. I'm excited to
           | have one cable to rule them all, personally.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | MacBook Pro, wireless mouse, an audio mixer I think, a couple
           | other things. I still use a lot more USB-A/B but it's
           | creeping up there. I probably won't upgrade this generation
           | but the switch is in the category of utterly inevitable and
           | mostly will mean I have to buy some adapters and maybe a
           | couple cables by the time it happens.
        
           | ploum wrote:
           | My laptop is USB-C.
           | 
           | Everything else I have is micro USB: my phone, my ereader
           | (PocketBook), my reMarkable tablet, my bluetooth headset, my
           | bike GPS, the lights of my bike, my portable batteries.
           | 
           | I fear the day I will have to replace all of those with USB-C
           | because, currently, I can travel with only one small charger
           | (as long as I don't take my laptop).
        
             | chx wrote:
             | I do not follow your reasoning. There are extremely small C
             | chargers and if the replacement is gradual, you could also
             | just carry C male-micro USB male cable(s) and micro USB
             | female to C male adapters. Such adapters adhere to the
             | specification, it's C female to legacy USB which is not.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | Just get a USB-C to microUSB adapter to put on the end, and
             | you could charge it all with just your laptop charger.
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | Multiple different wireless headphones. Wireless keyboard.
           | Wireless mouse. Game controllers. A non-Apple phone. Multiple
           | laptops. E-reader. A rechargeable flashlight. A rechargeable
           | lantern. External battery pack.
        
           | scarface_74 wrote:
           | My MacBook Air and my portable external monitor gets power
           | and video from one USB C cable.
        
             | majikandy wrote:
             | Portable external monitor, tell me more.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | I have this one:
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B095GG31KX
        
           | jiofj wrote:
           | I have none at all. So I'm not so happy about this. It means
           | I will have to throw away lots of good lightning cables I've
           | amassed over the years. Thanks EU, I guess.
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | Tell that to the parallel port cable I still have sitting
             | in my cable box just in case I need to fire up an ancient
             | dot matrix printer.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | At this point basically every gadget in my house not made by
           | Apple, and even then most of the gadgets made by Apple.
           | 
           | MacBook, iPad, Studio Display, Switch, Sony headphones,
           | Kindle, my wife's Pixel phone, Steam Deck, Raspberry Pi. The
           | only micro USB devices I have are some old portable chargers.
           | The only Lightning devices I have are my phone, my AirPods
           | and, for some reason that still escapes me, the external
           | trackpad Apple sells.
           | 
           | If the only USB-C gadget you have is the Switch you must not
           | have bought many gadgets in the past five years. Which
           | actually isn't a bad thing, good on you.
        
             | P-Nuts wrote:
             | My Kindle Oasis and my Bose QC35 are my next most often
             | charged things after my iPhone, and they're both micro USB
             | and only three years old. The only USB-C device I own is a
             | kitchen scale. I have more mini USB and full-size USB-B
             | things!
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | Almost everything beside the iPhone.
        
           | allanrbo wrote:
           | Usb c devices i own: Apple MacBook laptop, Lenovo laptop,
           | Sony headphones, Bose headphones, bike lights, headlamp,
           | probably more. Lightning is the odd one out for me.
        
           | oceanplexian wrote:
           | I don't necessarily "miss" lightning but it was a superior
           | design. With USB-C the cables are female so you're more
           | likely to break off the connector on the device instead of
           | the cable, which is cheap and easy to replace. Lightning
           | didn't have that problem.
        
             | ilteris wrote:
             | I disagree. In my experience of having both of these for a
             | number of years I never had to replace a USB-C cable
             | because it was broken. I had to replace the lighting cable
             | more than I can count.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | my devices are mostly micro-usb, the apple devices are
           | lightning and I'm getting more usb-c devices sort of
           | randomly.
           | 
           | I've started buying multi-standard cables - they usually
           | terminate with micro-usb, and have tiny attached adapters for
           | usb-c and lightning.
           | 
           | higher quality example: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071WNQYV6
           | but there are lots of cheaper variants.
        
         | steeve wrote:
         | We can thank the EU for that
        
         | SirMaster wrote:
         | I understand why they did it.
         | 
         | But just my perspective on it, I will have to replace all my
         | lightning cables with usb-c, and the usb-c ecosystem seems like
         | a nightmare to me from what I have seen.
         | 
         | This would be my first usb-c device.
        
           | bootlooped wrote:
           | For the vast majority of consumers, the usb-c ecosystem is
           | fine. Buy name brand cables and chargers, they're fine.
        
             | nomel wrote:
             | That's not the greatest advice. I saw my mom charging her
             | phone with a fat, meter long, USB-C cable. I asked her why
             | she was using such a short cable. She admitted it was
             | annoying to use. She said it was $35, but it was fast
             | charging! It was a 100W 10Gbps cable.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | This is why the iPhone was nearly the last Apple device to
           | switch to USB-C. Plenty of people will be irritated at having
           | to buy bunch of new cables, and they've been accumulating
           | Lightning cables for a decade. And unlike something like
           | Micro USB, lightning cables don't often wear out.
           | 
           | But it is better to finally make the jump. I've never been
           | unhappy with Lightning, but almost everything else I own has
           | now switched to USB-C.
        
             | jorams wrote:
             | > and they've been accumulating Lightning cables for a
             | decade.
             | 
             | This is why I don't think Apple's electronic waste argument
             | makes much sense. All devices I've bought in the last 5
             | years have been USB-C, while iPhone users were stuck on
             | Lightning. If Apple had switched back then all those users
             | would've been buying 5 years worth of cables that work with
             | everything, rather than cables that work for only a few
             | devices from a single manufacturer.
        
             | rstat1 wrote:
             | My brother has an iPad with the Lightning port on it, and
             | has to get new cables every few years because they start
             | fraying and breaking around the bottom of the connector.
             | 
             | And he isn't really rough or abusive with these cables
             | either.
             | 
             | Where as I still have MicroUSB cables from 10 or 12yrs ago
             | that still look and work like new.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I guess there will always be someone who can damage any
               | cable. I've never killed a lightning cable myself, and
               | only ever seen someone else (my own mother) do it once --
               | and it wasn't the connector that broke, it was the cable
               | at the strain relief. Hell, the cable still actually
               | worked, but I was uncomfortable with the state of the
               | cable and bought her a new one.
               | 
               | When I was doing Android phones, I was going through a
               | new Micro USB cable about every month or two. Never long
               | enough to fray the cable itself, it was always the
               | connector flaking out and refusing to make a good enough
               | connection to charge reliably.
               | 
               | Good riddance to Micro USB.
        
               | JohnBooty wrote:
               | Absolutely not a Lightning-specific thing.
               | 
               | Flimsy cables are flimsy cables and they will break and
               | fray. USB-C, Lightning, whatever.
               | 
               | The first-party Lightning cables from Apple have always
               | been pretty flimsy so if Lightning cables have a bad rep
               | in general, that's probably why. That's Apple's fault but
               | not anything specific to Lightning.
               | 
               | I've had a lot of Anker Lightning cables and they're
               | about as bulletproof as a cable can possibly be.
        
               | kaba0 wrote:
               | That sounds like a "your brother problem". Especially
               | that an often touted negative of lightning cables is that
               | the only movable part is inside the socket, which is
               | harder to replace -- so it makes even less sense why they
               | could go wrong. My guess: he is buying cheap Chinese ones
               | that have lower quality and you compare it to some higher
               | quality ones.
               | 
               | As many people can vouch for: lighting cables can easily
               | work for many many years without any trouble whatsoever.
        
               | faeriechangling wrote:
               | Hmm, I've known several Apple users who have experienced
               | the same thing. Both with branded Apple cables and third
               | party ones. I seemed to notice lighting users having more
               | dead cables than USB-C users seemed to, and it seems to
               | me that lightning cables more frequently omit robust
               | strain relief for aesthetic reasons.
               | 
               | The most frequent tendency I notice among people who have
               | their cables fray is they use their phones while
               | charging, but if you do certain things on your phone like
               | long gaming sessions, you are almost forced to use your
               | phone while it charges. So blaming the user feels a
               | little bit like "you're holding it wrong" to me.
               | 
               | Where I did notice a difference between USB-C and
               | lightning is that the lightning PORT seemed more durable
               | than USB-C ports. I own multiple phones with flaky USB-C
               | ports, whereas lighting ports seem much more durable.
        
               | Larrikin wrote:
               | It's an old problem that was a real problem. I personally
               | have never had any cables fray, except for every white
               | Apple cord I had owned.
               | 
               | Up until a few years back when I noticed my replacement
               | cord for yet another bad Apple cable felt different.
               | Haven't had any issues with them after that. I assume
               | they changed the manufacturing process.
        
               | hotnfresh wrote:
               | This definitely has to do with handling. I always wad my
               | cables up and stuff them in bags, no care to careful
               | winding or anything--but they last forever, as long as
               | I'm the only one using them.
               | 
               | What I don't do is hold them under tension for long
               | periods, or use them stretched taught then bent 90deg
               | right next to the connector. My wife and kids ruin cables
               | in a few months, and that's how they do it. I didn't get
               | what people were talking about with apple cables being
               | fragile, until I saw that.
               | 
               | I developed my habit because the same behavior is bad on
               | ports, too. I'd developed an unconscious avoidance to
               | doing those things before I ever owned an Apple device,
               | or had one at work. So my Apple cables last forever
               | unless my wife or kids get ahold of them.
        
               | dwaite wrote:
               | Yep. My replaced lightning and USB-C cables were all with
               | the iPad, because in landscape I'll have the connector at
               | a tight bend.
               | 
               | Now I just use a usb-c cable with a 90 degree bend built
               | in.
        
               | kemayo wrote:
               | Contributing to this anecdata, it's the same for me. My
               | cables last forever, my spouse runs through them at an
               | accelerated rate. Coincidentally, they use their phone in
               | bed with it plugged in...
        
               | hotnfresh wrote:
               | Plug in, move as far away as possible, turn port away
               | from direction of the wall outlet, to use it. Bonus
               | points for also _resting it_ on the bent-at-the-port
               | cable. Yep, that's the maneuver my family members use to
               | ruin all our cables. Similar with laptop and tablet power
               | cables--get far from the outlet so the cable's under
               | tension, turn device so port's not facing the outlet.
        
               | rstat1 wrote:
               | I really don't think it is. It was a problem with the
               | Apple one as well or else he wouldn't keep having to get
               | new ones.
        
           | faeriechangling wrote:
           | It's overblown how much of a nightmare USB-C is. Yes there
           | are many problems with the ecosystem, but it's still really
           | not as bad as using both lightning and USB-C like Apple does,
           | nor is it as bad as micro-usb.
           | 
           | At my desk I have a laptop, keyboard, and mouse which
           | typically all typically get charged off a single thunderbolt
           | 4 cable. You can have anything from games controllers to
           | bicycle lights to remote controls sharing a single charger.
           | No need to fuss with adapters, or having a rats nest of
           | different cables, or charge-only cables with
           | microusb/usb-c/lightning at the end. C to C cables are also
           | very nice since they allow phones and usb-c only laptops to
           | charge any other USB-C device, and you can't accidentally
           | flip them around the wrong way.
           | 
           | The technology itself is great. It's the flawed
           | implementations, the lack of standards enforcement, the
           | confusing labelling of different types of cables, and the
           | very gradual and slow death of lightning/micro-usb/USB-A
           | that's really holds things back. Once you figure out what you
           | need to buy, and finish buying the appropriate products that
           | you need, it is nice.
        
             | dwaite wrote:
             | > Yes there are many problems with the ecosystem, but it's
             | still really not as bad as using both lightning and USB-C
             | like Apple does[...]
             | 
             | People underestimate just how stable lightning cables are.
             | After 11 years they have two types of certified cables in
             | terms of data and charging capabilities, and you can tell
             | them apart by whether the other end is USB-A or USB-C
        
             | JohnBooty wrote:
             | For phone users who only want to charge their phones, it's
             | fine. It's hard to go too wrong.
             | 
             | For people who want to have e.g. 100W+ of power while
             | feeding a signal to 4K60+ external monitors it's kind of a
             | nightmare unless they know that "just use Thunderbolt 4"
             | "trick".
        
               | faeriechangling wrote:
               | While a bit of a tangent, I also love how Apple likes to
               | make this EVEN MORE confusing by not supporting
               | displayport MST in MacOS, causing most thunderbolt 4
               | docks on the market to be incapable of supporting
               | multiple monitors when using MacOS.
               | 
               | So if you have say a 16" MacBook Pro, you need to get not
               | only Thunderbolt 4 which is a rare spec, you want to
               | ideally get ~85-140w PD not ~60w, AND you need to get an
               | expensive dock that can split up the two HBR3 displayport
               | channels instead of a regular MST Thunderbolt 4 dock.
               | 
               | Thankfully Apple has a solution to consumer confusion
               | caused by all this. Buy a $1600 Apple studio display,
               | connect it directly to your Mac, use the monitor itself
               | as a dock, and everything will be compatible. Stay in the
               | safe walled garden.
        
           | dahfizz wrote:
           | The USB-C ecosystem is so confusing because the port can do
           | so much.
           | 
           | Worst case scenario, you get a cheap cable and you're stuck
           | at the same charging speed and data speed as what lighting
           | could do. It can only get better for you; lightning is an
           | ancient port.
        
           | Matl wrote:
           | > the usb-c ecosystem seems like a nightmare to me from what
           | I have seen.
           | 
           | Compared to lighting it only has advantages, faster charging,
           | more universal.
           | 
           | It's only a nightmare because you can carry almost anything
           | over USB C incl. DisplayPort etc. which is not always clear
           | if it's supported or not
        
             | nani8ot wrote:
             | Agreed. Any compliant USB-C cable supports all the features
             | lightning does, aka. power and USB 2.0 data.
             | 
             | It also supports HDMI but that's used with an adapter
             | anyway, so it's not a consideration if it works for a user.
        
           | lambdasquirrel wrote:
           | I know I'm in the minority but I preferred the smaller
           | lightning cables to these USB-C cables that were designed to
           | carry 100x the power that a phone would need.
        
             | JohnBooty wrote:
             | Lots of compact USB-C cables out there. They won't provide
             | 100W to your laptop, but they'll charge your phone just
             | fine.
        
         | tazjin wrote:
         | Welcome to 2018 or so!
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | liendolucas wrote:
         | Is there a reason why Apple have never offered induction
         | charging? Isn't that the best way to charge a phone? We
         | completely avoid the wearing out of the port itself,
         | potentially avoiding repairs and extending its lifetime if
         | spare USB charging boards are no longer available. I'm
         | wondering why every single phone hasn't it.
        
           | vermilingua wrote:
           | They have? iPhones have supported wireless charging for years
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | Aside from the fact that they do as you've already seen,
           | inductive charging is slower and far less efficient than via
           | a cable.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | You mean wireless charging? My iPhone 11 does it, and I'm
           | pretty sure all of the subsequent ones do as well. Maybe not
           | on the SE. I think the 10 might have even supported it.
        
           | c0pium wrote:
           | They have for several years.
        
           | kokanee wrote:
           | iPhone 8 and later support inductive charging. But it's not
           | perfect - my wife's phone was melted by a third-party
           | inductive charging pad that was intended for use with
           | iPhones.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | liendolucas wrote:
           | Oh my mistake, yes indeed. Must be that I've never seen a
           | wireless charging iPhone...
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Everyone in my family have iPhones with inductive charging.
        
           | haraldooo wrote:
           | What do you mean? iPhones support ,,magsafe 2" since 2017 (?)
           | and Qhi-Charging since forever. And no, there is no ,,general
           | best" - you at least have to deal with the energy that is
           | lost through induction.
        
         | wackget wrote:
         | > It comes with one USB-C to USB-C charging cable
         | 
         | Why not a USB-A to USB-C cable? The vast majority of existing
         | chargers and computer/console/car ports are USB-A.
         | 
         | Seems like this is forcing people to buy USB-C chargers.
        
           | marcusramberg wrote:
           | Probably need usb-c to charge the phone at full speed?
        
           | dpritchett wrote:
           | Likely so the phone can charge off of a nearby MacBook which
           | has usb C ports.
        
           | lozenge wrote:
           | The last power adapters and cables bundled with iPhones
           | already had USB C connection.
        
           | nsn90 wrote:
           | not their computers, also Apple usually pushes changes
           | forward, not backwards, in this case using lightning they
           | just diverged from micro USB, and probably now most people
           | have USB-C chargers
        
           | a2dam wrote:
           | No other Apple products include a USB A port. It's to
           | standardize the whole ecosystem on USB C.
        
       | purplejacket wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | copperx wrote:
       | I haven't cared about new phones in a while, but the DSLR-like
       | sensor image stabilization looks really cool.
        
       | miguelazo wrote:
       | No Mini again? Pass.
        
       | brotherhoodZero wrote:
       | I may be an odd on out here, but I'm not a fan of the move to
       | USB-C. I don't care about data speeds or charging speeds. I don't
       | even care about durability of the cable as they can be replaced.
       | I care about durability of the charging port on the device and
       | every USB-C device I've ever owned has become "loose" over time.
       | This includes my iPad Mini, so I don't believe Apples has found a
       | solution to this.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, I may have had to replace cables for my older iPhone,
       | but those cables are still solidly in place when I insert them.
        
         | Arbortheus wrote:
         | Did you ever try scraping the bottom of the USB-C port with a
         | bobby pin? I find over time pocket lint gets squished at the
         | back of the port and stops the cable fitting in as snug. For
         | some reason it seems to be more of a problem with USB-C ports
         | than lightning ports.
        
         | e44858 wrote:
         | Did you try new cables? With USB-C the retaining spring is in
         | the cable, so if it gets loose you just need to replace the
         | cable. With Lightning the spring is inside the charge port in
         | the device, so it's a lot more expensive to replace.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | purplejacket wrote:
       | I'm still rocking the iPhone 6. Thanks though.
        
       | DavidSJ wrote:
       | Meanwhile, ever since my upgrade to iOS 16, I'm asked for my
       | passcode every time I attempt an iTunes backup.
       | 
       | This is apparently by design, in order to address a security
       | vulnerability: https://imazing.com/blog/ios-backup-passcode-
       | prompt
       | 
       | But surely Apple could fix this more properly, however I guess
       | they don't care to support people who make limited use of iCloud.
        
       | fsdjkflsjfsoij wrote:
       | These presentations look like something straight out of some
       | dystopian corporate hellscape fiction.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | I was expecting it to end with "all these presentations were
         | rendered live on the A17 pro, on this iPhone". None of it
         | really seems "real".
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | Hey, It's me. Did I wake you from your depression nap?
        
         | tenpies wrote:
         | _I could feel my social credit score rising with each nod in
         | agreement, as the UN SDG AAA+ rated company, with WEF
         | endorsement, told me how my consumerist lifestyle will not
         | affect the global boiling._
        
         | baq wrote:
         | These were peaceful. The Vision Pro announcement earlier this
         | year was basically a black mirror episode.
        
           | rvnx wrote:
           | The dad that was watching videos (or something like that) in
           | his Vision Pro instead of spending time at his kids birthday.
        
             | scop wrote:
             | That and the lonesome father looking at photos of his
             | (dead?) family in a dark apartment really left a bad
             | impression from me on the headset that I can't shake. I
             | will never "unsee" that. Sure, use it for work...but at
             | home, no way. Baffled that Apple thought would jive well
             | considering how much attention they put into those presos
             | and makes me wonder how much of the headset marketing team
             | is single & childless.
        
             | astrange wrote:
             | That's accurate dad behavior. Having cellphone cameras was
             | a temporary decrease compared to holding a camcorder or
             | viewfinder camera.
        
           | sureglymop wrote:
           | The "mother nature" sketch was... interesting. And throughout
           | the presentation I thought well it seems this new generation
           | iPhone doesn't bring anything new, it seems like a finished
           | product. So not creating a new one every year would probably
           | be better for the environment than whatever efforts and
           | greenwashing they do engage in.
        
         | bitcurious wrote:
         | It's a bit bizarre, the presentation felt claustrophobic in a
         | way I can't explain, and haven't experienced with their prior
         | work.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | The excessive use of what felt like drone cameras, or steady
           | cam, and continual camera movement played a part. It almost
           | feels like they were trying to pretend you were watching it
           | in AppleVision(tm).
        
             | itronitron wrote:
             | Thank you for the summary. I wasn't planning on watching it
             | and certainly won't now.
        
         | mewse-hn wrote:
         | Yeah they're so type-A and "we are the best at this" that they
         | end up being overproduced hostage videos with the presenters
         | standing wide-legged and bug-eyed reciting very human words at
         | the camera.
         | 
         | The pandemic is over, bring back the theatre stage with a live
         | audience.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | You might love the Devolver Digital E3 Press Conferences.
         | They've done a masterful job dismantling the E3 presentation
         | format, but I find it's generally true for all these kinds of
         | longform corporate product ads.
         | 
         | The first one is here from 2017:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKgEsuEBhqI
        
         | mcast wrote:
         | I wish Apple would return to pre-COVID live keynotes. But that
         | would mean demos would fail, wifi networks would be crowded,
         | audible boos and gasps from price announcements. Yeah, Apple
         | isn't going back anytime soon.
        
       | cloogshicer wrote:
       | Really hope you can map undo/redo to the action button on the
       | Pro. I really wish there was a system-wide undo on iOS.
       | 
       | Shake-to-undo doesn't count in my opinion.
        
       | noja wrote:
       | "Siri what is my blood glucose level?" during the Apple Watch
       | (offline on-device Siri) section was a fake tease.
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | That whole presentation could have been 30 minutes shorter. It's
       | a product announcement not an investors meeting. Show me the
       | products. Make a sustainability PR as a separate piece. Get your
       | name in the news twice. Seems strange
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | What about eleven?
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d9JblG0O3Io&pp=ygUKY25ldCBhcHB...
        
         | wilg wrote:
         | Apple is bad at marketing is an interesting new take
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Not every marketing piece is going to hit with all viewers.
           | I'm sure some people felt emotionally affected by the opening
           | piece about people's lives that were saved by their watch. It
           | was just a very strange tone/vibe to open a product
           | announcement. It's like the Sarah Mclachlan SPCA piece. It's
           | not the thing you play when you want to pump someone up.
           | Obviously the entire opening portion was to assuage consumer
           | guilt in buying new about to be discussed. It just didn't sit
           | well with me at all. So yes, in this case, the marketing was
           | bad and failed for this member of the audience.
        
           | delfinom wrote:
           | Apple is out of things to market because they have reached
           | maturity.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | No one would watch the "Apple's getting rid of leather" video.
         | And it would have seemed weak if their announcement was half
         | the typical duration, signaling that there's not much new here.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | yes, the entire first 30 minutes felt like vamping
        
           | noja wrote:
           | Woolnut have leather cases
        
       | baby wrote:
       | They are making really really hard not to switch to Android. I
       | was just expecting a folding phone, and have been wanting a
       | folding phone for years. Now Samsung has a mature folding phone
       | that looks like a much better alternative...
        
         | xutopia wrote:
         | What does a folding phone solve that a non-folding phone
         | doesn't?
        
           | baby wrote:
           | Bigger screen to read (papers) and watch videos.
        
       | ChatGTP wrote:
       | Really sad I bought a 14 with the lightning connector.
        
       | ulkesh wrote:
       | So the only compelling reason to upgrade from the 14 is...USB-C,
       | where people are saying the 15 (non-Pro) runs at USB2 speeds?
       | 
       | This was one of the most lackluster Apple launches in recent
       | memory. I long for the day when Apple actually innovated on this
       | product line. Now they're simply treading water and only making
       | good changes when forced to (EU requiring USB-C).
       | 
       | I will give credit where it is due for Apple -- the M2 MacBook
       | Air is phenomenal, even as a software engineering platform. The
       | form factor is fantastic, the weight is awesomely light, and it's
       | a true joy to use. Sadly, innovation on macOS is about as bad as
       | the iPhone, but I suppose I'm more okay with that because being
       | my workhorse machine, I want predictable stability more than I
       | want interesting features.
       | 
       | Edit>> I love how people are asking "what are you doing with data
       | transfer anyway?" Such deflection of the principle of the issue,
       | but keep on trying as if any answer I'd give would satisfy the
       | question. I adore Apple products, I don't adore a clear stab at
       | yet more greed from the company that has had the top market cap
       | for years now. I'm intelligent enough to see this for what it is,
       | and not simply dismiss corporate greed because some people may
       | not use the device the same way as others. Putting USB3.2 in
       | these phones is possible. Putting Thunderbolt in these phones is
       | possible, though that comes with the Intel complication. The tech
       | exists and has for many years now. They chose not to bother on
       | the lower end phones so they could create yet more divergence
       | between the product lines trying to create FOMO for people so
       | they'll buy the higher end phone.
        
         | noahtallen wrote:
         | I mean, everything is "better". If cameras are important to
         | you, you now finally have a bigger sensor that allows for 2x
         | zoom at around the existing quality. The chip is faster and
         | more efficient, so battery will get better too.
         | 
         | If you wait 2-3 years between phones, you get something that's
         | more significantly better. I've seen tons of comments here and
         | elsewhere saying the 15 isn't that compelling compared with the
         | 14. Is it supposed to be? Updating your phone every year isn't
         | _that_ common IRL. This is more compelling for people coming
         | from iPhone 12 /13 or older.
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | The changes between iPhone generations and phones in general
           | used to be huge and always cause for excitement. IMO, it's a
           | sign of maturity and welcome that phones are now making
           | steady progress instead of frequent paradigm shifts. It felt
           | like electric cars were in a similar state till quite
           | recently where it felt like anything you buy will be quite
           | outdated next year which is bad for a huge investment.
        
           | n8cpdx wrote:
           | Except it isn't compelling to people with an iPhone 12
           | because we're on the third S year in a row. Design hasn't
           | changed, camera bump has just gotten worse, yay USB-C but
           | only nerds use that and everyone else will be pissed about
           | needing new cables.
           | 
           | It isn't compelling compared to anything after the 11, and
           | they should be aiming higher.
        
           | Terretta wrote:
           | A bunch of their zoom comments appear to be the same thing as
           | saying a DX sensor is a "zoom" of an FX sensor.
           | 
           | No, its a smaller rectangle around fewer pixels, which when
           | shown the same size, looks zoomed in.
           | 
           | DX sensors are not "longer reach" than FX sensors with the
           | same glass, they are cropped.
           | 
           | Couldn't tell from the pitch if that's what Apple meant, but
           | it sure seemed like they meant it's cropped, not zoomed.
        
         | bdavbdav wrote:
         | What are you doing with USB data on it?
        
         | nardi wrote:
         | My notes on the upgrade from 14 to 15 I took during the
         | announcement:                 * Twice as bright screen       *
         | Dynamic Island       * Smaller bezel       * Contoured edge
         | * New better plastic back       * Big camera improvements
         | - 48MP main camera vs. 24MP        - Faster focus        - Much
         | better telephoto        - Improved portrait mode          *
         | Better color          * Better low-light performance          *
         | No shutter lag          * Turn on portrait mode after the fact
         | - Smart HDR for better lighting       * Live voicemail
         | transcription       * Longer battery life?       * Satellite
         | emergency / roadside assistance
        
         | sharkjacobs wrote:
         | > So the only compelling reason to upgrade from the 14 is...
         | 
         | Your brain has been rotted by product marketing and tech
         | consumer hype fanaticism.
         | 
         | If your phone is a year old then the only reasons to buy a new
         | one are                 - you make a living developing software
         | for that phone       - you make a living writing about that
         | phone       - you are a hobbyist or enthusiast who loves phones
         | and wants to spend disposable income on them
        
         | tomaskafka wrote:
         | Imo it's finally offering a bit better image quality than 5
         | year old 12mpx sensor overprocessed into watercolor. At least I
         | hope, iPhone 13 pro photos become a badly prompted stable
         | diffusion once zoomed a bit.
        
         | rahkiin wrote:
         | What do you even use usb data transfer for? I have only ever
         | used it for development which was quick enough with Lightning
         | (also usb 2.0)
        
           | darren_ wrote:
           | You can still backup iPhones to your desktop instead of
           | iCloud. At least for now.
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | I use it for backing up and restoring my phone to disk. It
           | takes forever with these big drives so transfer rate is
           | really nice.
           | 
           | I don't do it frequently, but when I do I want it to take as
           | short a time as possible.
        
           | ulkesh wrote:
           | Whatever I please. It's irrelevant what I may use it or not
           | use it for.
           | 
           | The point is that the technology now is far past USB 2 (and
           | has been for some time despite Apple's persistence on using
           | Lightning with such slower speeds) and the only reason they
           | have for not putting USB 3 in the 15s (non-Pro) is greed.
           | They were forced by the EU to convert to USB-C, so it looks
           | to me as if they did the absolute minimal amount of work and
           | effort to be any more consumer-friendly than they have to be.
        
             | gpt5 wrote:
             | You are attributing malice, but they explained things
             | pretty clearly in the presentation.
             | 
             | They are reusing the SoC of the 14 pro in the 15 (as they
             | always do), which doesn't support USB 3. On the 15 pro they
             | have support for USB 3, and you can bet it will propagate
             | down the iPhone line next year.
        
       | matonias wrote:
       | The action button reminds me of the Mactini
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BGGOn-H7s3Q
        
       | tibbydudeza wrote:
       | "The fast and efficient A16 Bionic chip brings proven performance
       | to iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus, powering the Dynamic Island,
       | computational photography capabilities, and more. With two high-
       | performance cores that use 20 percent less power and four high-
       | efficiency cores, the 6-core CPU is faster than the previous
       | generation and easily handles intensive tasks while delivering
       | extraordinary battery life. The 5-core GPU has 50 percent more
       | memory bandwidth for smooth graphics when streaming videos and
       | playing games. A new 16-core Neural Engine is capable of nearly
       | 17 trillion operations per second,"
       | 
       | Even Apple can't resist the numbers geekery - it's just a phone -
       | nothing revolutionary.
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | Finally! At last they adopt USB-C!
       | 
       | This has been the only reason I've not been using an iPhone for
       | some time now.
       | 
       | I _love_ just having one cable that charges everything (phone,
       | laptop, headphones, tablet, you name it - desk fans, white noise
       | machines, thermometers, cameras etc etc etc)
        
         | jcrash wrote:
         | Me too. Really like USB-C.
         | 
         | My only problem is that I wish it was easier to tell what
         | cables can do what things. Only some of my cables are able to
         | connect to displays/power my laptop
        
       | lykahb wrote:
       | Next year breakthrough announcement for iPhone 16: the 3.5mm jack
       | is back.
        
       | mikece wrote:
       | But is Apple going to sell a Lightning to USB-C adapter? What the
       | hell am I going to do with all of my lightning cables????
       | 
       | UPDATE: Okay, that was a tongue-in-cheek comment but Apple is
       | doing the most Apple possible thing: they really are going to
       | sell a $29 (?!) adapter that will allow you to use your Lightning
       | charging cables to charge the new USB-C iPhones:
       | 
       | https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/12/apple-usb-c-to-lightning-adap...
        
         | ZekeSulastin wrote:
         | The same thing you did ten years ago when they got rid of the
         | 30-pin cable?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | jmkni wrote:
           | Ah yes, the drawer!
        
         | tmn wrote:
         | The same thing you do with all of your lightning interfacing
         | devices?
        
         | post_break wrote:
         | You can find dozens on amazon that do just that.
        
       | rdtsc wrote:
       | I like USB-C, but do I want to spend $800 for USB-C? Probably
       | not.
        
       | bilsbie wrote:
       | I thought we were getting a better zoom lens? I guess not?
       | 
       | I'd really get a lot of use out of 4 or 6x.
       | 
       | I also wish they'd stop editing the pictures so much. It's
       | decided I should have gray hair even though I don't in real life.
       | Really strange.
       | 
       | Oh and it destroys sunset photos. I get completely different
       | colors than I see with my eyes for sunsets.
        
         | saiya-jin wrote:
         | Apple has bad color balance for quite a few years, it can also
         | manifest like this. People not knowing much about actual
         | photography see it as cool instagrameish tweak, and who
         | generally doesnt like to imitate more successful people they
         | follow (I guess successful happy balanced people who dont need
         | to follow others).
         | 
         | I have physical 10x zoom lens on my samsung. Its a massive
         | advantage in almost any situation barring almost total
         | darkness. I take of pictures where subjects are clearly visible
         | and take most of the frame, compared to everybody else with
         | phone who has tiny figures who go to smears when digitally
         | zoomed. If for nothing else, i am not changing the brand, good
         | pics of my kids are simply too valuable to us.
         | 
         | If Samsung can do it, I am sure Apple can do it even better. No
         | clue why they dont.
        
         | rumblerock wrote:
         | I was really surprised when the most disappointing feature of
         | my 14 Pro was the camera. The overprocessing is horrendous in
         | low light, and the constant switching between lenses is
         | annoying when taking everyday photos.
         | 
         | It's funny because in contrast to the old perception of Android
         | phones being fiddly and iPhones "just working", Google's camera
         | software has been way more point and shoot since the original
         | Pixel. Sure, it's also hyper-processed, but in my experience it
         | provided a more reliably "good" result across a range of
         | situations.
         | 
         | And whereas Pixel software updates just kept delivering better
         | and better photos on the same hardware, I know with this 14 Pro
         | I'm going to be stuck with this out of the box performance
         | until I upgrade in several years.
         | 
         | End rant.
        
         | kemayo wrote:
         | There's a better zoom in the Pro Max. 5x.
         | 
         | This is consistent with all the rumors, which were all-in on
         | "the biggest Pro is getting the new camera tech".
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | Am I the only one who dislikes the rounded corners on the iPhone
       | which appear even more pronounced on the 15.
        
       | warthog wrote:
       | Another unnecessarily long event with essentially meaningless
       | long sentences and long pauses to show off the new Iphone,
       | exactly the same one as before, $100 more expensive.
       | 
       | I will buy it though. Gotta get rid of my Iphone 7. Time has come
        
         | fckgw wrote:
         | It's the same price as last year?
        
       | nu11ptr wrote:
       | Dynamic Island, USB-C and camera enhancements make me glad this
       | is my upgrade year (I have a 12). I will probably grab the base
       | Pro model for $200 more due to even better camera though, but I
       | would be pretty happy with the 15 regular as well. I stopped with
       | the big phones a few years ago... the battery bump is nice, but
       | my phone goes everywhere and I prefer the regular size in my hand
       | and pocket.
        
         | jonplackett wrote:
         | I'm keeping my 12 Pro Max another year.
         | 
         | It takes great photos. I never use the port. Dynamic Island is
         | an Emperor's new clothes marketing scam where they've just
         | moved the bezel even more in the way than it was and managed to
         | convince people it's a good thing.
        
         | mint2 wrote:
         | I don't quite get all the comments that are expressing
         | disappointment- I think the camera and particularly the zoom is
         | a great upgrade versus my 12 pro, and there's a bunch of other
         | nice to haves.
         | 
         | I'll probably upgrade next year though not this one. Expecting
         | major improvements and new features every year is odd to me.
         | 
         | These incremental gains add up over the 3-4 years that I feel
         | is a reasonable minimum phone life.
        
           | fdsafdsa32va wrote:
           | > Expecting major improvements and new features every year is
           | odd to me.
           | 
           | I think that has to do with Apple's own
           | presentation/marketing. They make the announcement into a big
           | thing.
        
             | mint2 wrote:
             | Do people expect Apple to proclaim "our new version has
             | incremental upgrades, only buy if your phone is a couple
             | years out of date"?
             | 
             | Product launches are always a lot of theatrics regardless
             | of the company.
             | 
             | I don't think anyone actually takes them any more seriously
             | than a mcdonalds ad implying eating their hamburger will
             | make one more like the cool sports star being paid a
             | million to hold the hamburger.
        
       | vidoc wrote:
       | Curious what's going on with the stance of presenters? If you
       | look carefully they all stand in a certain way, with a space
       | between their feet that appears to be constant.
        
         | ttepasse wrote:
         | Back in the 2010s there was a TED Talker/grifter who advocated
         | a wider stance to project power and confidence. For a time that
         | notion must have been picked up by political consultants,
         | leading in the UK to the so-called Tory Power Stance:
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/30/sajid-javid...
         | 
         | Of course, connoisseurs of the historical documentary series
         | "Blackadder" know that this has a tradition going back to
         | Regency times.
        
           | nvm0n2 wrote:
           | You're referring to Amy Cuddy, promoter of "Power Posing" and
           | one of the top 100 most inspiring women according to the BBC:
           | 
           | https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-41521671
           | 
           | It was later discovered that her work was fraudulent and her
           | coauthor walked back the claims.
        
         | elboru wrote:
         | It feels like it's the same person doing the presentation just
         | face swapping for each section.
        
           | KeplerBoy wrote:
           | Maybe that's actually the case. Jensen Huang has done it, and
           | it certainly cuts down on the filming and rehearsing time.
        
         | codeflo wrote:
         | They all have the same coach that tells them it looks
         | energetic.
         | 
         | They also all have the same script writer, and they all
         | *emphasize* *words* in the *same* *powerful* *exciting* *way*.
         | 
         | I'm old enough to remember that Apple presentations, while
         | being clearly marketing exercises, used to be a lot more
         | organic and flowing.
        
           | vagab0nd wrote:
           | > I'm old enough to remember that Apple presentations, while
           | being clearly marketing exercises, used to be a lot more
           | organic and flowing.
           | 
           | Remember Jobs ordering 4000 Latte to-go from Starbucks?
        
         | manifoldgeo wrote:
         | I've only watched Tim Cook's introduction, but it sounds like
         | his voice is being shifted (autotuned) to sound pitch-perfect.
         | It's pretty uncanny valley and off-putting imho.
        
           | djaychela wrote:
           | I didn't notice that as I don't really know his voice, but he
           | definitely sounded weird to me.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | They seem to be doing the same weird hand gestures, too. So
         | strange, like corporate gang signs.
        
       | ericzawo wrote:
       | How many lightning cables are going to end up in the Great
       | Pacific Garbage Patch in the next two years?
        
       | bambax wrote:
       | > _USB-C is going to mean I can get rid of all these lightning
       | cables_
       | 
       | Bought a Motorola G6 in 2018 for EUR199. It takes "fantastic"
       | photos, and came in a "stunning new" (!?) color of black(ish).
       | It's pretty much indestructible, runs Firefox with uBlock Origin,
       | and it's "better for the environment" because every year you
       | don't buy a new phone, the environment is happy.
       | 
       | It also has USB-C, and a 3.5 jack.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | We detached this subthread from
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485328. (There's nothing
         | wrong with it - I'm just trying to prune the top-heavy thread)
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | My G6 has lately been getting extremely laggy. 8 seconds to
         | launch Firefox + uBlock, 4 seconds to get a keyboard after
         | tapping the address bar; I don't use it much for more than
         | texting or calling people, but it's a bit ridiculous. And there
         | used to be plenty of space on the 32 GB built-in storage (and
         | there's always abundant space on my 256 GB uSD for photos and
         | media) but even with fewer apps installed now there's less
         | space available.
         | 
         | Have you ever had to reflash yours or anything like that?
        
         | unixhero wrote:
         | Please don't come here with rational arguments :)
         | 
         | A Volkswagen is a better buy than a Porsche for most - pretty
         | much a comparable market positioning
        
         | scns wrote:
         | Just bought a Moto g42 for ~113EUR. Gonna buy another one as a
         | spare since one of my hobbies is destroying mobile phones. My
         | favourite phone so far. OLED display, Headphone jack, 5000mA
         | battery, LineageOS support (Android 13, Motorola still on 12),
         | totally worth it IMHO.
        
         | throwaway29812 wrote:
         | Congrats. A lot of people don't like Android, it's not a big
         | deal either way.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | matchbok wrote:
         | Android phones need replaced much more often than iPhones, due
         | to how slow they get and lack of updates. There is a reason the
         | resale value of iPhones is 2-5x any Android phone.
        
         | moomin wrote:
         | It hasn't seen a security update since 2020, though, so it's
         | not for everyone.
        
         | xvolter wrote:
         | > and it's "better for the environment" because every year you
         | don't buy a new phone, the environment is happy.
         | 
         | This seems wrong. I am still on an iPhone Xs Max from 2018 and
         | it still gets software updates. It looks like the last software
         | update on the G6 was in 2020. The lack of even security patches
         | limits the life of the phone for many people.
         | 
         | The primary reason I'll eventually need to upgrade is because
         | of 5G support. Coverage is getting worse as 3G has been
         | shutdown and all new towers are focusing on 5G. My battery life
         | sucks now too, but that can solved easily.
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | I also still have an XS and don't plan on upgrading until
           | updates stop. I thought it was this cycle, but apparently
           | not. Supported until 2025. That's pretty reasonable!
        
           | grecy wrote:
           | Heck, I'm still using a 6S.
           | 
           | Works perfectly, and I didn't really care when I smacked a
           | ratchet into it and cracked the screen a month ago.
        
           | noahtallen wrote:
           | The older iPhones still hold resale value pretty well too,
           | which means most iPhones have a second life as a "cheap"
           | option. Combined with the software updates you mentioned,
           | that's pretty good for the environment. The best case
           | scenario is most iPhones get to be used by multiple people
           | and new iPhones contain a lot of recycled material. That's
           | not too far from reality.
           | 
           | The problem with tech is nothing is ever "good enough." Sure,
           | you could make a phone that is durable for 10 years... but
           | someone will invent new battery chemistry, CPUs will get
           | considerably more powerful/efficient, and Sony will come
           | along with even better camera sensors.
           | 
           | So it's really not possible for that high-end "old" phone to
           | keep up after a few years. That's true for most consumer
           | tech, even if the pace is slowing down somewhat. An expensive
           | LED TV from 2013 will not compare favorably with a good value
           | mid-range one today.
           | 
           | We can either stop innovating, which is also bad for the
           | environment (technology improvements allow for vast
           | efficiency and energy-use improvements in a huge range of
           | products), or we can make sure things have a lot of re-use
           | value. That can be done through the used market with good
           | repairability and software support, and by making sure phones
           | can be recycled and also use a lot of recycled materials.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dopidopHN wrote:
         | I have a 2016 Apple phone and it was updated until last year. I
         | moved anything critical out of it.
         | 
         | Still work like a charm
        
         | throwaway54_56 wrote:
         | The charging cable was obviously not the leading factor when
         | the purchase decision was made. It doesn't matter much that a
         | different platform that runs different software and has
         | different capabilities had models available with USB-C.
         | Different phones for different folks and that's ok.
         | 
         | In any case, I welcome USB-C to the iPhone world.
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | I think people forget that Lightning predates USB-C by a few
           | years, and the alternative at the time (USB Micro B) was hot
           | garbage.
           | 
           | Should Apple have stuck with Lightning for an entire decade?
           | No. But any switch away from Lightning was going to cause
           | pain for customers already invested in the ecosystem, and
           | there was a time when that ecosystem actually made the most
           | sense.
        
           | nirvdrum wrote:
           | I think it has a bigger impact than you realize. The last
           | iPhone I owned was the 3GS. I don't particularly like iPhone
           | or Android; I'm hardly a fan boy. But, I'm seriously looking
           | a iPhone 15 variant as my next phone.
           | 
           | I have USB-C for virtually everything and have no interest in
           | dealing with keeping a second set of cables for one device.
           | It's an extra expense, headache, and environmental waste I
           | don't want. The change to USB-C makes an iPhone a viable
           | option for me. I look forward to a refreshed SE line with
           | USB-C as well.
           | 
           | I'm not thrilled about all the cables and dongles/adapters
           | eventually going to landfills, but believe the move will be
           | better in the long-run. I wish Apple made the move earlier.
        
         | shiftpgdn wrote:
         | Android is notorious for aging out phones much faster than
         | Apple. You could use 8+ year old phones with the latest
         | security updates up until very recently.
        
           | forty wrote:
           | It depends on the brand. Look at FairPhone if you care about
           | durability, they are amazing. The recent FP5 might last 10
           | years. (happy owner of a FP3)
        
           | saiya-jin wrote:
           | By far the biggest intrusion window these days is your
           | browser. Latest firefox with ublock origin is simply the
           | safest of them all, saving bandwidth, blocking youtube ads,
           | saving battery, your eyes and so on.
           | 
           | Plus, currently plenty of androids have 5-6 years of
           | guaranteed security updates. To be honest I wouldnt ever want
           | to use much older phones even if patched up to date, too
           | clunky, making bad photos (I have kids so this is top
           | priority), not up to most network standards and so on
        
             | rz2k wrote:
             | While Firefox on iPhones does not allow extensions like
             | uBlock Origin, Orion browser will allow you to install both
             | Firefox and Chrome extensions, including uBlock Origin.
        
               | WD-42 wrote:
               | I tried Orion. It's super unstable. I don't know what
               | tricks they are trying to play, but they clearly aren't
               | working.
        
               | geoah wrote:
               | On IOS 17 orion starts and nothing works. Been like this
               | for some time.
        
               | the_gipsy wrote:
               | That's Impossible.
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | Which Android phones have 5-6 years of security updates?
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | Samsung promised 3 or 4 years of updates in 2019, and
               | then updated that pledge to 5 years for the flagships.
               | What's exciting about Samsung's pledge is that it made
               | this promise for some of the mid-range models in the A
               | series, which are fairly affordable.
               | 
               | My S21 Ultra is in its 3rd year and regularly updated.
               | Should get 5 years of updates, and I intend to keep it
               | until then.
               | 
               | Also, the writing is on the wall that the EU will force
               | phone makers to years of updates, changeable batteries
               | and availability of spare parts.
               | 
               | It's also noteworthy that Google has the ability to
               | update many system services via Google Play. The poor
               | track record of updates from phone makers basically
               | demanded it. In other words, an Android device that
               | hasn't received any system updates in a year or two is
               | still fairly usable.
        
               | mongol wrote:
               | I have an A70..I was just looking for when it will lose
               | its software updates. The last update I have is from Dec
               | 22, but I can't find information when it will expire.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | Indeed, last update is from Dec-22. A70 should have
               | gotten 4 years of security updates.
               | 
               | https://doc.samsungmobile.com/sm-a705fn/sek/doc.html
               | 
               | Looking at this list of devices getting updates, it only
               | lists A70s with "biannual" updates, so A70 may no longer
               | be updated:
               | 
               | https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb
        
               | mongol wrote:
               | Indeed, some useful links you found there. Thank you!
        
               | technofiend wrote:
               | You asked which Android phones get five years of security
               | updates? Directly from Google, only the Pixel 6 and up,
               | most likely in reaction to Apple's better support
               | policies. Other manufacturers? You have to research it
               | because it varies:
               | https://www.androidauthority.com/phone-update-
               | policies-16586...
               | 
               | Ideally Google would mandate a minimum number of years
               | for both feature and security updates that matches theirs
               | of three and five, respectively. Having said that, these
               | really are wasting assets thanks to storage wearing out,
               | but that's true of all phones, regardless of
               | manufacturer.
        
               | pmontra wrote:
               | My Samsung A40 from 2019 should have security updates
               | until 2024. It's still getting them but not as often as
               | in the first 3 years.
        
               | wredue wrote:
               | Probably all of them, but that's only cause, unless
               | things have changed, it takes 3 years to get said updates
               | in the first place.
               | 
               | I remember before I switched to iPhone I would wait and
               | wait and wait and wait for the latest android and updates
               | and a whole new version of android would roll out before
               | I would even get the previous version.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Samsung provides 5
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | So a Samsung phone from 2018 is still getting operating
               | system updates or security updates?
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | Their pledge has started in 2019, and the promise for 5
               | years of updates is fairly new. I remember they first
               | promised 3 or 4 years of security updates.
               | 
               | For what is worth, I have a Galaxy Tab S6 from 2019 that
               | is still getting security updates, although it wasn't
               | updated to Android 13:
               | https://doc.samsungmobile.com/SM-T865/ROM/doc.html
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | How are those operating system updates?
               | 
               | For reference, the latest version of iOS will run on 5
               | year old iPhones when it is released.
        
               | bad_user wrote:
               | Apple has unparalleled support for older devices, I think
               | we agree.
               | 
               | For operating system updates, Samsung pledged 4 years of
               | updates for the flagships starting with S21.
               | 
               | The difference between Android versions isn't big. I also
               | mentioned in another comment that on Android, to cope
               | with phone makers not pushing for system updates, Google
               | can update many system components via Google Play. And
               | apps remain compatible. Being 2 versions behind the
               | latest Android is OK.
        
               | thegeekpirate wrote:
               | The Google ones do since the... 6a iirc?
        
               | Descon wrote:
               | Pixel 6 onwards have 5 years
               | https://www.androidpolice.com/google-pixel-os-update-
               | length/
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | OS updated for only 3 years after release and security
               | updates for 5? This is still really bad.
        
               | jsight wrote:
               | It really isn't, given how much of Android will get
               | updated during those security fixes only years. Many of
               | the builtin apps will still receive feature updates,
               | likely even beyond that window.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Compared to iOS 17 running on 5 year old phones and the
               | 10 year old iPhone 5s getting a security update earlier
               | this year?
        
               | jsight wrote:
               | I have an ancient ipad. It still gets major updates, but
               | not necessarily all of the best features from those
               | updates. Maybe that is a hardware limitation or maybe
               | not.
               | 
               | I also have a Pixel 5. It received Magic Eraser, which
               | used to be a key feature of newer Pixels, as part of a
               | regular Photos app update.
               | 
               | I'm still getting major updates too, but, tbh, they
               | aren't that critical. Chrome, GMail, Maps, YouTube,
               | Calendar, Messaging, the app store itself (including UI)
               | and the core web browser will keep getting updates well
               | beyond the end of life.
               | 
               | There really isn't a direct comparison here, but I
               | wouldn't switch in either direction due to updates.
        
               | nani8ot wrote:
               | Iirc Apple iOS includes more features than Android in the
               | core OS. Google Services still receive updates and only
               | things like the UI and system settings stay the same.
               | Most people I know don't care at all about updates.
               | 
               | But I agree, it's great how Apple supports devices for 6
               | years with major updates. It would also be possible for
               | Android phones if SoC & phones manufacturer actually
               | cared.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Anytime a new version of iOS is released, usually within
               | the first 6 months it is on 80%+ of the phones
        
           | camhart wrote:
           | I don't know a single person using an 8+ year old phone. I'd
           | guess 99% of the population makes a phone last 2-4 years.
        
             | croes wrote:
             | But why?
             | 
             | It seems the only progress is the camera and the CPU, but
             | for what more CPU speed? The camera?
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | Several of the phones I've upgraded from were due to the
               | onboard storage wearing out. A couple were because of
               | water damage, which is less of a concern these days.
        
               | runamok wrote:
               | For me at least the battery seems to degrade
               | significantly after 2+ years. I have a OnePlus 7t that is
               | 3 years old and I use it heavily almost every day. I
               | should consider wiping it to see if that improves battery
               | life.
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | Wow, I don't think that's true at all. Most people can't
             | afford a new phone that frequently. I know amongst my
             | techno elite friends your estimate holds, but for almost
             | everyone else I know they rarely upgrade and it's more
             | about when it physically falls apart than any desire to
             | participate in an upgrade cycle.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | In the US, all of the major carriers offer 0% interest
               | payment plans. Even the MVNOs offer low end iPhones "for
               | free" with a contract.
               | 
               | We don't have to limit it to people you know
               | 
               | People upgrade their phones about once every 2.5 years
               | 
               | https://www.refurb.me/blog/how-long-does-a-smartphone-
               | last-r...
        
               | fnordpiglet wrote:
               | 0% interest isn't $0/m. When you live paycheck to
               | paycheck, as most Americans do, that's a very important
               | detail. Most people don't have disposable income.
               | 
               | But even that do they don't value phone upgrades. When I
               | see their ancient phones I sometimes remark they can get
               | a phone with monthly terms and they just shrug and say
               | the sad device with cracked screens and ancient cameras
               | and crap display resolution and brightness is good enough
               | for them. It baffles me, but most people just use their
               | phone for texting, occasionally a map, and a crappy
               | camera. Only in my tech friend circle do people keep up.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | _Most_ Americans aren't living paycheck to paycheck where
               | $20 /month is going to mean they starve.
               | 
               | You can easily look up the average time between phone
               | upgrades is between 2-3 years.
        
               | hotnfresh wrote:
               | My carrier offers them 0% interest, rolled into your
               | phone plan payment.
               | 
               | But, go figure, the sticker price is like 10-15% higher
               | than on the Apple site.
               | 
               | They just hid the interest in the price.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | That isn't true for T-mobile. But even so, you can always
               | just buy from Apple with a 0% interest payment plan
        
               | hotnfresh wrote:
               | iPhone 14 128GB on t-mobile's site: $829 (zero-interest
               | roll-into-your-phone-bill financing available)
               | 
               | Same, on Apple's site: $699
               | 
               | IDK, maybe apple price-dropped today and T-Mobile hasn't
               | caught up, but that's similar to what I've seen in the
               | past when I've looked at buying through them.
        
             | skywhopper wrote:
             | Weird, I don't know anyone that keeps their phone for less
             | than five years.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | And I'm sure you don't know "anyone that still watches
               | TV" like the old Slashdot meme.
               | 
               | It's really not that hard to find statistics. It's 2.5 -
               | 3 years
               | 
               | https://www.refurb.me/blog/how-long-does-a-smartphone-
               | last-r...
               | 
               | https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-2-year-mobile-phone-
               | upgrade-c...
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | My iPhone 7 will be 7 years old in a few days, so close. I
             | haven't found the need for anything that has gone into new
             | phones since then that would justify the cost.
        
             | avn2109 wrote:
             | My daily driver phone is an iPhone 7+, which Wikipedia
             | tells me is from 2016. It works great and people often
             | compliment the pictures from its camera. That's not "8+
             | years old" but it's in the ballpark :)
        
             | throwaway54_56 wrote:
             | The lifespan of those phones remains for the people that
             | buy them used/refurbished. There is a strong secondary
             | market for iPhones.
        
             | woodruffw wrote:
             | Not sure about 8 years, but I know at least 3 people who
             | use iPhone 8s still and have no intention of stopping, so
             | that's 6 years. I know at least one person who had an
             | iPhone 5 until it broke earlier this year.
        
               | szundi wrote:
               | Father as business development manager manages with
               | iphone 7
        
               | kaba0 wrote:
               | I guess this will only lengthen as we go forward, as the
               | initial jumps between successive phones were large, and
               | they are much more incremental nowadays. An iphone XS is
               | good for 5 more years easily.
        
               | llimllib wrote:
               | I try to use mine for 5 years each, I jumped from the 8
               | to the 14 earlier this year
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I only stopped using the 8+ because it got destroyed, and
               | "upgrading" to a newer used one was almost the same
               | price. Otherwise I'd still be rocking that touch button.
        
             | thinkmassive wrote:
             | Anecdata: I have a friend who refuses to update from an
             | original iPhone SE because he hates the larger form factors
             | AND because it functions perfectly fine for his needs.
             | 
             | I know multiple people still using an iPhone X (2018), for
             | whom cost is not an issue.
             | 
             | The main reason for the majority of the general population
             | to upgrade is because the phone literally breaks (screen,
             | stops charging, radio malfunctions, etc)
        
             | nerdbert wrote:
             | Mine is 6 years old, my wife and son are both using 8-year-
             | old iphones. They still get security updates.
        
             | zie wrote:
             | I'm at 5yrs(iPhone XR), though I do plan on replacing my
             | phone with a new iPhone 15 later this year or early next.
        
             | TheAtomic wrote:
             | On a 6 year old iPhone 6 here. Solid, charges quick, no
             | battery issues, good pics, you name it. I may upgrade to go
             | all USB-C but may wait to see if the 15 has issues.
        
           | flanbiscuit wrote:
           | I've been with Android since my the very first G1. I'm not an
           | iPhone hater, I think they are great phones, I'm just happy
           | with Android (for now) and see little reason to switch yet.
           | That being said, the one thing that could probably make me
           | switch is this issue right here.
           | 
           | I have the Pixel 5a, it was released in August 2021 and
           | Google only guarantees support for that model up to August
           | 2024, that is for both full OS updates and just security
           | patches. As of the Pixel 6 series and after, you get 3 years
           | of full OS updates, and 5 years of security patches (that's 2
           | extra years after full OS updates stop).
           | 
           | To compare, the iPhone 13 series was released in September
           | 2021 and will continue to get support up to 7 years after its
           | release (Sept 2028).
           | 
           | So far my Pixel 5a has been the best (reliability-wise) phone
           | I've ever hard and it sucks to know that after August 2024,
           | I'll be vulnerable to future security vulnerabilities.
           | 
           | Samsung offer only slightly better support by increasing the
           | full OS support to 4 years instead of Google's 3 for the
           | Pixel. Same 5 year for security patch. That's not enough for
           | me to go back to Samsung and deal with their OS bloated with
           | apps I can't uninstall (it's been a while, maybe it's
           | better?)
           | 
           | sources:
           | 
           | https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/4457705?hl=en
           | 
           | https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-four-year-update-
           | list-...
           | 
           | https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201624
        
             | galangalalgol wrote:
             | My 4a potentially just got its last update. If I don't any
             | security updates going forward, not sure if I'll put a
             | third party image on it or toss it. I'll probably try the
             | first, and if it does work well, the second.
        
               | nani8ot wrote:
               | GrapheneOS receives OS updates for another year. It's
               | pretty simple to flash with a web-based installer.
               | 
               | If it feels too slow, try disabling "Secure app
               | spawning". It's a security improvement over Google's
               | Android by GrapheneOS but increases app startup time.
               | Especially on slower devices like the 4a.
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | And? My android phones last on average 3 years, do everything
           | I need and cost less than EUR200. The exception is the
           | current Fairphone 3 I am using, which I paid 350EUR and I am
           | expecting to use for at least 5 years, possibly 7. How can
           | one justify paying 3x the cost if not just to continue
           | keeping myself tied into Apple?
        
             | eBombzor wrote:
             | The hardware on those 300 euro phones are awful. iPhones
             | last longer in both software support and actual usability.
             | 
             | > How can one justify paying 3x the cost if not just to
             | continue keeping myself tied into Apple?
             | 
             | It's not rocket science. The experience you get using an
             | iPhone vs a cheap Android for 5 years is not even close to
             | comparable, and while you do pay a ridiculous premium for
             | an iPhone, there are obvious reasons why someone would want
             | to.
             | 
             | And this is coming from a long time Pixel user.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | The hardware is _just fine_. My old Nokia 6 from 2018 can
               | still play Mario Kart _just fine_.
               | 
               | I hate to see that I am starting to sound like an
               | activist, but I also hate to see how even the supposedly
               | smarter-than-average people in tech lose all sense of
               | perspective when they see shiny overpriced trinkets.
               | 
               | Why should we care if "the experience is not even close
               | to comparable", if it is brought by a trillion dollar
               | corporation who denies people even the most basic rights
               | and fights as dirty as it can to keep its unfair
               | advantages?
               | 
               | (And please notice that the above paragraph also applies
               | to Google and Samsung, so please don't make it sound that
               | I am arguing for team Android here)
        
             | nerdbert wrote:
             | My iphone is currently 6 years old, and still getting
             | security updates from Apple. It works as well as it ever
             | did (I spent EUR60-ish for a battery replacement a year or
             | two ago), and I hope to get at least another year out of it
             | yet.
             | 
             | It cost me about EUR600, and I also enjoy knowing that I've
             | generated that much less e-waste compared to my prior
             | Android life, where I had to discard phones every 2 or 3
             | years.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | First, let me point to Fairphone which is also providing
               | 7 years minimum of updates, but most importantly, it does
               | not lock me into their OS and I can install anything I
               | want (in the case, MurenaOS).
               | 
               | Second, I'd love to be proven wrong, but I can bet good
               | money that if we look at a distribution of activated
               | iphones per model, we will see that most users probably
               | stay a lot less than 6-7 years.
               | 
               | Third, it's not about iPhone vs Android. It's the fact
               | that we are discussing things like "getting security
               | updates" when in fact we should be asking ourselves "why
               | aren't we free to install whatever system we want on _our
               | own device_? " I don't really care so much about the fact
               | your phone cost 600 or 6000EUR, what bugs me to no end is
               | that we are effectively paying trillion-dollar
               | corporations to let them remove our freedoms.
        
             | mattl wrote:
             | iPhone SE 2022 is $429 and will likely get updates for a
             | similar amount of time as the OP mentioned.
             | 
             | Not every iPhone is over $800.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | That's still more than the Fairphone, which has to deal
               | with the overhead of sourcing materials and paying fair
               | wages to everyone in the supply chain.
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | https://www.techradar.com/reviews/fairphone-3-review#sect
               | ion...
               | 
               | $500 in 2019 is $597 now.
               | 
               | 450 Euro in 2019 is 533 Euro now.
               | 
               | That's enough to buy an iPhone 13 and skip the SE model
               | entirely.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | Is that what the majority of people are buying, or are
               | you just pushing down some numbers while forgetting that
               | it does not reflect the reality of the consumer market?
        
               | mattl wrote:
               | My last two iPhones have been the SE model and I know a
               | number of friends who have one. The previous smaller
               | iPhone SE (2016) was a lovely phone and still getting
               | updates.
        
               | rglullis wrote:
               | _something-something-anecdata..._
               | 
               | - Most people change phones every 2 to 3 years.
               | 
               | - iPhone SE/mini accounts for less than 25% of the units
               | sold.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | Ancient android might not get security updates, but is
           | actually still very usable. The vast majority of apps will
           | still at least run and talk to their servers on a 10 year old
           | phone.
        
             | FredPret wrote:
             | How is it usable if it is insecure? People bank on these
             | things.
        
               | tssk wrote:
               | Motorola G6 Plus (and many other Android phones) is
               | supported by LineageOS which is up-to-date version with
               | security updates.
               | 
               | https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/evert/
        
               | Arbortheus wrote:
               | I used to run LineageOS and some banking apps would not
               | work as I had to unlock my bootloader.
        
               | badrequest wrote:
               | So to have an old phone that is still secure you have to
               | know how to flash an OS onto a phone?
        
               | 867-5309 wrote:
               | did you install the security systems for your house or
               | car?
        
               | hiq wrote:
               | This is misleading, as the firmware (binary blobs) most
               | likely do not get updates.
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | taway32r41 wrote:
               | The U.S. Senate begs to differ.
               | 
               | Consumers defrauded on Zelle are left high and dry by the
               | banks that created it [pdf] (senate.gov)
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37438934
        
               | SamReidHughes wrote:
               | Transactions where you got scammed aren't the same thing
               | as unauthorized transactions.
        
               | taway32r41 wrote:
               | "Banks are not repaying customers who contest
               | "unauthorized" Zelle payments - potentially violating
               | federal law and CFPB rules."
               | 
               | I suppose you and Senator Warren have different
               | definitions for unauthorized.
        
               | SamReidHughes wrote:
               | So, actually, 47% of them by dollar amount, according to
               | the report you quoted. Selectively quoted. Why do you
               | behave this way?
               | 
               | Here's a question for you to think about: Why do they
               | reverse some claims but not others?
        
               | mikeweiss wrote:
               | Yeah.. good luck with that !
        
               | constantly wrote:
               | It's not that you're completely and totally wrong that
               | makes me mad, it's that you state everything with such an
               | authoritative tone that people won't doubt it and will
               | get into a bad situation based on what you're saying.
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | > Once you notify your bank or credit union about an
               | unauthorized transaction (that is, a charge or withdrawal
               | you didn't make or allow), it generally has ten business
               | days to investigate the issue. The bank or credit union
               | must correct an error within one business day after
               | determining that an error has occurred.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-do-i-
               | get-my-mon....
        
               | frumper wrote:
               | I've had multiple family members wait months to sort
               | things out like that. Visa fraud experience is usually
               | immediate, checking/savings accounts not so much.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jsight wrote:
               | He's using Firefox with updates. I guess they still
               | provide browser updates for his version. TBH, that
               | mitigates most of the real vulnerabilities.
               | 
               | It may even receive system web browser updates, as those
               | tend to go on for much longer than OS updates with
               | Android.
               | 
               | With a little care, it is likely to be fine.
        
               | downWidOutaFite wrote:
               | These days "security" has been perverted so it is mostly
               | not about protecting you from attackers, it's about
               | preventing you from accessing your own data or running
               | the apps that you want. You are the threat that they are
               | securing against. Less "secure" means more freedom for
               | you. Less "secure" can also mean more real security for
               | you since you have to leave the mainstream which is what
               | actual attackers target.
        
             | mqus wrote:
             | Kitkat(Android 4.4) is 10 years old and I have experience
             | with it. You can't update Signal since last year and you
             | can't use it anymore since soon after that. Whatsapp didn't
             | work anymore after May. And most(all?) of the phones bought
             | 10 years ago didn't have kitkat yet.
             | 
             | Those two are the apps that survived the longest (Try
             | getting any matrix client to work on it). Others broke
             | sooner, most of them because the app developer has to
             | enable TLS1.2 to be able to use it for HTTP APIs and many
             | web servers disabled responding to older versions a while
             | ago. Firefox (the one which allowed all extensions) still
             | works. Great! But I can't message anyone anymore. On a
             | phone.
             | 
             | TBH I put most of the blame here on app developers
             | (supporting older stuff is not that hard) and some of it on
             | the device manufacturers.
        
             | semiquaver wrote:
             | Who is updating the trust store? With root certs from 10
             | years ago a lot of TLS connections will not work.
        
             | baq wrote:
             | I have a nexus 5x which I wanted to repurpose for...
             | anything at all. It can't even update itself anymore. Play
             | services update just locks up or whatever. Play store is
             | broken and can't install anything. The thing is useless as
             | a smartphone.
             | 
             | My iPad 5 got an iOS update last month-ish? And a security
             | patch last week. All of my kids run iPhone 8.
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | you need to install the f-droid store. most google apps
               | still work, but you can't use recent versions of them.
        
             | squokko wrote:
             | Using a non-updated device on the Internet is not smart if
             | you have any personal information on the phone.
        
               | londons_explore wrote:
               | Plenty of people do it... And it doesn't actually
               | backfire often - the worst that seems to happen is your
               | phone will self-install unremovable adware if you visit
               | the wrong website.
               | 
               | A complete reset solves it tho.
        
               | la_oveja wrote:
               | system might not be updated, but apps are. its not the
               | end of the world in a realistic setting
        
               | The_Colonel wrote:
               | An anecdote, but I've never heard anybody from my social
               | circles to have their phone hacked. I keep reading about
               | all these holes, but somehow they don't seem to be widely
               | exploited in the real world.
        
               | mikeweiss wrote:
               | I'd actually like to see a list of real world security
               | incidents that occured on EOL android devices. Not out of
               | date browsers. (Chrome can still be updated) but devices
               | no longer getting OS security updates.. something tells
               | me it's very very rarely if ever an actual issue in real
               | life.
        
               | taway32r41 wrote:
               | I'm not going to do a lot of research here but one thing
               | I remember reading about was an uptick in Android
               | Ransomware.
               | 
               | https://www.microsoft.com/en-
               | us/security/blog/2020/10/08/sop...
               | 
               | In the article it explains how Google and the ransomers
               | are doing a cat and mouse thing. If your phone is not
               | keeping up, that could definitely be an issue.
        
           | scarface_74 wrote:
           | Actually, Apple released a security update for iPhone 5s
           | (2013) earlier this year.
        
             | joecool1029 wrote:
             | Just installed 15.7.9 on the original iPhone SE (2016).
             | Came out yesterday?
        
           | orangepurple wrote:
           | This is why LineageOS is so critical
        
         | rhuru wrote:
         | Those people who point out that these phones don't receive
         | regular updates, please note that at $199 you can buy a new
         | phone every 4 years and still be more environment friendly.
        
         | kaba0 wrote:
         | Then buy a used iphone, which will not be made obsolete a year
         | later due to lack of software updates, but continue to get new
         | ones for 8 years and actually has the hardware capabilities to
         | drive it for that long.
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | This is what I do. I just upgraded last year from an iPhone 6
           | to 8, and it's working great for me. The next stop would be
           | an 11 I think, and that's only if I end up getting into the
           | Peak Design ecosystem and the dashboard mount's built-in
           | wireless charging capability doesn't work with an 8.
        
       | agentgumshoe wrote:
       | New iPhone threads make me laugh. I could never imagine replacing
       | a one year old laptop/PC just because it had a new port.
       | Especially if I had a bunch of cables for the old port anyway.
        
       | evolveyourmind wrote:
       | I can't understand why they invest so much in gaming. Gaming on
       | such small devices is too uncomfortable, both for your eyes and
       | your posture. In addition, with cloud gaming you can basically
       | run any PC/Console game on any device provided a good-enough
       | connection (eg. Nvidia NOW, Xbox cloud gaming etc)
        
         | nocsi wrote:
         | Because gaming is one of the last remaining markets that apple
         | can dominate in and profit. Microsoft spent a lot of money on
         | Activision to claw back against apple
         | 
         | If your eyes hurt then switch to literally any other apple
         | device, Apple TV, Mac, iPad, iPhone... they all have access to
         | Apple Arcade. When cloud gaming streams asset objects and not
         | raw video, then it'd be a contender. As of now, it's too
         | expensive and is losing to mobile games
         | 
         | https://imgur.com/a/BG2hexr
        
         | umeshunni wrote:
         | Mobile gaming is about 10x the size of the PC and console
         | markets.
        
           | evolveyourmind wrote:
           | Interesting number, but how many are actually that GPU-
           | intensive?
        
             | dihrbtk wrote:
             | I think a substantial amount at least. Kids and tweens seem
             | to game a lot on mobile, and Fortnite is a GPU-intensive
             | game that runs on mobile.
        
               | haunter wrote:
               | It's literally not on iOS though
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | These things cost a huge amount of money. Apple must make an
       | unbelievable profit margin on these phones.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | IIRC the BOM cost is around $500. That's just hardware, there's
         | R&D as well. The profit margins are good, but pure software is
         | a lot more lucrative.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | These guys are insane. Every year the bloody product looks great
       | (EDIT: not visually/aesthetically, looks like its got great
       | features) and then the next year it somehow is even better.
       | Satellite connectivity is fantastic. I believe T-mobile is
       | bringing some of that too. If we get satellite backup calling or
       | satellite data in the coming years it will be incredible.
       | 
       | I think I'll wait another year before I upgrade my iPhone 13 but
       | this is great stuff.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | _> Every year the bloody product looks great and then the next
         | year it somehow is even better_
         | 
         | It's literally the same design since the iphone 11.
         | 
         | You need to see them side by side to notice the difference but
         | any other user won't be able to tell at a glace that you own
         | the 15 and not an older model.
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | 15 is more rounded.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | The memes will be great on how apple's designers opened
             | last year's CAD files, changed the radius of the corners
             | and called it a day, and can kick back till next year while
             | being paid boatloads.
        
           | jamesgeck0 wrote:
           | It's not, but the improvements have been extremely
           | incremental. The internals of the 14 were redesigned for
           | better repariability, and the 14 pro model moved the camera
           | into the middle of the screen.
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | It litterly is, to the untrained eye, unless you comapare
             | them side by side.
        
               | threeseed wrote:
               | A comment that deserves to be framed.
               | 
               | Things look the same when you don't look for the
               | differences. Brilliant.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | At the end of everyone is a line "this is the best _____ we've
         | ever made". well, duh. it would be insane to make something
         | worse than the previous version.
        
           | resfirestar wrote:
           | >it would be insane to make something worse than the previous
           | version
           | 
           | Well, this is the company that brought us the butterfly
           | keyboard.
        
           | lesuorac wrote:
           | I think you could sell people on a 50% worse product if it
           | cost 1% the price.
        
         | robbyking wrote:
         | I'm in the same boat. I was planning on upgrading my iPhone 13,
         | but TBH it's pretty much in perfect shape so it feels wasteful.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Yeah, it feels like it's perfect as a phone. I absolutely
           | love it. I'm actually quite surprised that they take what I
           | think as a perfect product and still add stuff to it. Very
           | impressed by Apple in every way. Great product. Great
           | engineering.
           | 
           | Somehow they always dodge the reverse Osborne effect, haha!
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Honestly if it weren't for the USB-C I'd probably just keep
           | on keeping on; but this might be the time to jump from the
           | Xs.
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | > satellite backup calling or satellite data
         | 
         | Given the way those antennas work I doubt that. From what I
         | understand they did some neat tricks to send very simple
         | signals for the SOS stuff in the absence of that.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | I can believe that. Perhaps network carriers will just place
           | Starlink terminals with solar cells everywhere. Not having to
           | do fiber or have sufficient connectivity in a mesh might make
           | the whole thing fantastic!
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | IMO, this was a pretty weak announcement. They spent so long
       | talking about environmental stuff, like getting rid of leather,
       | that it felt like they were trying to pad the presentation to
       | reach a reasonable length. There were a few new things (more
       | optical zoom, slightly smaller bezels), but these were all leaked
       | in advance.
       | 
       | I was also disappointed to hear that the satellite stuff is
       | limited to 2 years. Is it going to be yet another subscription
       | after that?
        
         | drexlspivey wrote:
         | I love the "This is our best $PRODUCT yet", duh is there a
         | company making worse products every iteration?
        
           | jabroni_salad wrote:
           | I swear sammy fucks up the battery every other year on
           | purpose just so they can say it's bigger next year.
        
           | macNchz wrote:
           | > is there a company making worse products every iteration?
           | 
           | Very many companies that built a brand around quality before
           | being quietly sold to a private equity firm are doing just
           | that, to maximize profits for as long as they can while the
           | brand still has a good reputation.
           | 
           | It can be really obvious if you've owned a quality product
           | for many years and then go to replace it, only to see that
           | the current rendition is effectively a cheap knockoff.
        
             | etrautmann wrote:
             | Also many hardware startups will launch with amazing build
             | quality and then push out a cost cutting v2 product.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | They also said that with a straight face when they removed
           | the headphone jack.
        
             | TylerE wrote:
             | and guess what? People use bluetooth headphones these days
             | and much perfer them to the rats nest of cables that used
             | to be cheap earbuds.
        
               | paxys wrote:
               | People have had the option to use bluetooth headphones
               | since 1999. Removing the headphone jack from iPhones
               | wasn't some revolution. Apple simple took away a choice.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | I personally know a _lot_ of people who didn 't realize
               | wireless headphones were a thing pre-Airpods. They
               | seriously thought Apple _created_ that market with the
               | first wireless headphones.
               | 
               | I imagine a lot of people didn't know or think about
               | wireless headphones until Apple made it a thing.
        
           | hkgjjgjfjfjfjf wrote:
           | Ford
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | I believe you mean GM, which is getting rid of CarPlay and
             | Android Auto.
        
               | twobitshifter wrote:
               | Ford https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MUkFsuilVD0&t=2s
        
           | thatguy0900 wrote:
           | There's a lot of instances of brands being bought just to
           | slowly milk into the ground by the new owners
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | There are many examples in the software space.
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | Others have already brought up Google.
           | 
           | I'll mention GM, since they are taking CarPlay and Android
           | Auto out of their new vehicles so they can charge a
           | subscription fee for worse versions of the same features your
           | phone already provides for free.
        
           | jcrash wrote:
           | Microsoft
        
           | manquer wrote:
           | They mean it is their flagship product , performance is not
           | the only innovation companies do , it could be cost or
           | something else.
           | 
           | Apple wouldn't say the same at a SE release event
        
           | TylerE wrote:
           | There are a lot of days I'd be strongly tempted to answer
           | that with "Google", but that's unfair since they usually just
           | kill the product rather than actively making it worse.
        
             | diego_sandoval wrote:
             | Google search is now worse than it was 6 years ago.
        
         | itisit wrote:
         | Apple should have kept the _S_ model name suffix. These half-
         | upgrades underwhelm when the devices are marketed as fully new
         | models.
        
         | charlesfries wrote:
         | The sales and marketing people are running the company now
        
         | baby wrote:
         | And no folding iPhone :(
        
         | jonplackett wrote:
         | Weakest announcement in years. The watch was also devoid of any
         | new features. This is borderline 'should have been a press
         | release' territory.
        
           | twobitshifter wrote:
           | Re watch: I discovered that the pinch gesture was already on
           | my series 8 watch under quick actions.
        
           | delfinom wrote:
           | Apple struggling to cope their products have reached maturity
           | heh
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | IMO, it's not mature if the battery life is one day. The
             | product it is seeking to replace (a "watch") can last for
             | years on a single battery. Most people wouldn't mind
             | charging once every week or two, but a "watch" that has to
             | be charged every day is not a mature product in my book.
             | It's especially embarrassing because Garmin and various
             | Chinese companies (Amazfit) have sleeker watches that run
             | for weeks.
             | 
             | Apple could sell a lot more watches if they upped their
             | battery life game. I guess they want a watch that can do a
             | zillion things, one day at a time. I prefer a watch that
             | can do a few things, for a couple weeks at a time.
        
               | nomel wrote:
               | > Apple could sell a lot more watches if they upped their
               | battery life game.
               | 
               | This would certainly require a display tech change. What
               | do you have in mind?
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I find the Amazfit display to be very nice, and it lasts
               | 2 weeks on a charge. I have no idea why Apple is stuck at
               | daily charging for the AW9. I could pay $800 to get an
               | AWU, and then use it in low-power mode for up to 5 days,
               | but that seems absurd. The Amazfit GTR 4 is 1/4 the price
               | and the battery lasts 3x as long (as low-power mode AWU)
        
               | babypuncher wrote:
               | How would you propose they improve battery life without
               | sacrifcing any of the existing feature set?
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Take a cue from Amazfit, whose watches last weeks on a
               | charge.
        
           | boringg wrote:
           | But where would the marketing budget be deployed? I enjoy
           | seeing how they produce the event but the content this year
           | wasn't interesting enough to keep my attention
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | It's just another way of increasing margins and justifying it
         | with platitudes about environmentalism. Corporations co-opting
         | things for profit.
         | 
         | It's why you can't get a paper bag at many grocery stores
         | today. Those bags cost them a lot of money that's now going
         | into their pockets while you are forced to buy bag after bag
         | (because who always has a bag on them?!) that only becomes a
         | net positive after thousands of uses. Which it never will come
         | close to.
        
         | armchairhacker wrote:
         | In their defense, iPhones haven't changed much, and IMO that's
         | a good thing. I still use an iPhone SE and haven't experienced
         | any issues. I have a much older iPhone which i stopped using a
         | couple years ago but it was the same, and I suspect it might
         | still even support the latest OS and apps
        
         | kmlx wrote:
         | > They spent so long talking about environmental stuff, like
         | getting rid of leather
         | 
         | which reminds me, i need to buy extra leather cases.
         | 
         | in any case, this is what happens when you've got nothing to
         | present.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | They won't fit new iPhones, IIUC. Third parties will still
           | make them, but they won't be available as rapidly as Apple's
           | cases.
           | 
           | I'm curious how much they're charging for this 'premium' new
           | FineWoven material, which they pitch as a replacement for
           | leather. Will they price it the same? Will people be willing
           | to pay that much?
        
             | kmlx wrote:
             | > They won't fit new iPhones
             | 
             | no, i'll be buying them for my current iphone.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | How many leather cases do you go through per phone? I
               | think they just said they're not making any new leather
               | products, not immediately killing all existing ones. I'm
               | sure the sales channels will eventually dry up though.
        
               | kmlx wrote:
               | > How many leather cases do you go through per phone?
               | 
               | one every 3 to 6 months, depends on how long i'm
               | travelling for (as that's when i usually drop/scratch/etc
               | my case the most).
        
               | callalex wrote:
               | I don't personally use leather, but I have been lead to
               | believe that it is the longest-lasting and most
               | repairable material. Are those people just lying to
               | justify their purchasing habits?
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | pb7 wrote:
               | You should take better care of your things. A leather
               | case every 3 months is unbelievably wasteful. This type
               | of careless behavior is killing our planet.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I appreciate that you rephrased this from your original
               | comment, which was incredibly dismissive.
               | 
               | But this is still condescending and hyperbolic. I'm as
               | surprised as the next guy that anyone would go through
               | multiple iPhone cases per year, but I don't know anything
               | about him, his family/habits/clumsiness, so I would not
               | make such judgmental remarks.
               | 
               | And from a practical perspective, you will win zero
               | converts by telling strangers on the internet that they
               | are "killing our planet".
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | zikduruqe wrote:
           | The new-er leather cases are no where near the quality of the
           | X, Xs series leather cases. My 5 year old Xs leather case was
           | like a baseball glove from my youth. These newer ones, like
           | the one on my iPhone 14 just doesn't wear the same.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | I haven't had a case since the 6, which was nice. I could
             | imagine that as time went on and volume went up, they had
             | to source lousier leather. The cynic in me also wonders if
             | they didn't keep their leather products as nice so that
             | people wouldn't miss it as much after it's replaced by
             | FakeLeather, or whatever they're calling it.
        
         | lofaszvanitt wrote:
         | This satellite thing... carriers around the world gonna love it
         | when Apple decides its time to leave them out from the equation
         | and will use Musk's satellites.
        
           | thorncorona wrote:
           | Don't believe satellites have enough bandwidth for dense
           | urban areas
        
             | lofaszvanitt wrote:
             | !
        
         | whycome wrote:
         | Was it only weak because you knew about the new things in
         | advance? The switch to USBC seems pretty significant. As well
         | as the 3mm chip in the pro models.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | The move to USB-C is a big deal for some people, but it's
           | hardly a headline feature for a new phone. The new
           | manufacturing technique is nice, but only if it translates
           | into tangible benefits for the user (which were not apparent
           | from the presentation).
        
         | jamiedumont wrote:
         | Small (anec)data point, but I got invited last week by my local
         | Apple Store to attend the event there and upgrade on the day.
         | Never had that happen before, and have a history (that Apple
         | surely knows) of buying 6 months after launch and then holding
         | for 4-7 years. I get the impression -- admittedly having not
         | watched the event -- that Apple feel the need to work hard and
         | drum up interest for this release.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | Super weird. I've had iPhones since day 1, but never gotten
           | such an invite. They must know that demand will be weak. I
           | was thinking I'd upgrade my 13 mini, but after seeing this
           | lineup I may stay on the sidelines for now. I expect there
           | will be some sales coming in a couple months, at least
           | through carriers.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | I bought a 13mini yesterday based on rumors that it would
             | be discontinued today.
             | 
             | Was waiting to see if they had a new mini, and obviously
             | they do not so glad I grabbed it.
             | 
             | Xs, 13, 14, 15, it's all the same to me except a mini feels
             | so much easier to handle.
        
               | thenewwazoo wrote:
               | I was waiting for a price drop today, and instead they
               | just stopped selling it entirely. I wish I'd heard those
               | same rumors. :(
        
               | ipqk wrote:
               | You can probably find it for awhile "in the channels",
               | i.e. 3rd party retailers like cell-phone stores for a
               | little bit longer until their stock is depleted.
        
               | cduzz wrote:
               | I recently switched from android to the iphone ecosystem;
               | I had a 3a and then a 4a, and recently updated to a 7a,
               | but it never really clicked with me -- just too big.
               | 
               | Got a 13 mini; I kinda don't like a bunch of aspects of
               | the iphone ecosystem, but the mini form factor is really
               | perfect.
               | 
               | Very much too bad that it's now dead.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | I liked my 11 Pro before the mini, but if I'm going to go
               | back to a non-mini phone I'll have to toss some of my
               | jeans, whose pockets are too small for non-mini phones. I
               | do find typing on the 11 Pro to be easier than on the
               | mini, since the keyboard is wider. But I love to swipe-
               | type on the mini.
        
           | lozenge wrote:
           | But it isn't even shipping for ten more days! Anybody who
           | accepted that invite must be going home disappointed.
        
         | BonoboIO wrote:
         | I m stunned that a company like Apple sold leather cases for a
         | premium price with a quality that you can only call trash.
         | 
         | Every 10 dollar knockoff from AliExpress had better quality
         | than this.
         | 
         | Not selling these anymore is not a big loss.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | I didn't see the announcement, but I saw this blurb on
         | Engadget:
         | 
         | > The company noted that while leather is popular for things
         | like watch straps, it has a serious impact on the environment,
         | particularly at Apple's scale.
         | 
         | Is that actually true? I remember reading a few years ago that
         | there was actually a big glut of leather: people still eat
         | steak and hamburgers, and without a market for the cow hides
         | then that material is wasted. That is, I thought the leather
         | market was largely a byproduct of the beef market, and that
         | reducing leather usage won't have a measurable impact on
         | reducing the number of slaughtered cows.
        
           | clord wrote:
           | you're right, this is greenwashing. I sell into the market
           | sometimes and the hides are basically wasted unless you try
           | hard to line up buyers. plus, if your beef is grass fed for
           | its whole life like ours, it's carbon neutral, as all the
           | carbon that goes into the animal came from the atmosphere.
           | It's true that factory-raised beef is bad for the environment
           | though, as they eat grains that are fertilized from oil via
           | Haber-Bosch. It's also true that tanning uses lots of nasty
           | stuff, but there is vegetable tanning which works well and
           | sourced from nuts and stuff.
        
             | etrautmann wrote:
             | I thought the issue was that cows produce a lot of methane
             | which is 20x worse foe trapping heat than CO2?
        
             | reportingsjr wrote:
             | > plus, if your beef is grass fed for its whole life like
             | ours, it's carbon neutral, as all the carbon that goes into
             | the animal came from the atmosphere
             | 
             | This totally ignores the land use issue. Cattle absolutely
             | decimate natural areas. e.g. significant areas of the
             | midwest/great plain that were prairie with deep roots to
             | store carbon are now pasture. Pasture grass has
             | comparatively shallow roots and limited ability to store
             | carbon.
        
               | jononomo wrote:
               | no, cattle grazing on land serves to regenerate the land.
        
               | mech987987 wrote:
               | Hasn't the midwest host large herds of grazing buffalo
               | for millenia? I think the last I read about this stuff,
               | most cattle farmers want their grass to still be the old
               | school deep-rooted stuff, if other grasses take over it
               | is a symptom of overgrazing.
        
               | padjo wrote:
               | > Hasn't the midwest host large herds of grazing buffalo
               | for millenia?
               | 
               | Only because humans killed all the megafauna at the end
               | of the last ice age.
               | 
               | The question now is if populating it with millions of
               | cows for us to eat is the right thing to do.
        
               | clord wrote:
               | Two things:
               | 
               | - Grazers improve the capacity of grass to carbon capture
               | 
               | - Some land is ONLY able to grow grass. The alternative
               | is desertification, and so livestock is the only option
               | to produce food. edit: unless you bring in fossil
               | fertilizers.
        
               | jmilloy wrote:
               | I think this is generally false. Cloven hooved animals
               | regenerate prairie and topsoil if grazed responsibly.
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | > you're right, this is greenwashing ... plus, if your beef
             | is grass fed for its whole life like ours, it's carbon
             | neutral, as all the carbon that goes into the animal came
             | from the atmosphere
             | 
             | Sounds like you might be doing a bit of greenwashing
             | yourself. The carbon came from the atmosphere, but the cows
             | make methane, which is much worse. Also they spoil the land
             | and water. And also you're not counting the carbon used to
             | actually raise them, like the gas in the equipment and the
             | transport.
        
               | dijit wrote:
               | Thats not how that works, just like the water cycle there
               | is a carbon cycle.
               | 
               | You can't produce "more" greenhouse gases in a closed
               | system, the system will ebb and flow; until you dig up
               | megatons of carbon that has been stored for a few hundred
               | millennia and insert it into that system.
               | 
               | (same story with polar ice caps and the water cycle)
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | The water cycle is actually the perfect analogy. The form
               | of the water is almost as important as the amount. When
               | you take all the water out of the ground and put it on
               | the surface, and then a bunch evaporates, sure, we have
               | the same amount of water. But we're still in big trouble
               | because we don't have usable fresh water.
               | 
               | If you take a bunch of carbon in the grass and convert it
               | to methane gas, sure you have the same amount, but it's a
               | lot worse for the planet.
        
               | dijit wrote:
               | My current (and if I understood correctly: _the current
               | scientific_ ) understanding of the carbon cycle does not
               | indicate that methane is significantly more harmful than
               | other forms of carbon release, mostly due to the fact
               | that it does not have a significant lifetime in the
               | atmosphere.
               | 
               | The issue remains, squarely, on adding to the carbon
               | cycle. The harmful values of methane output is directly
               | correlated with the oil based feed which GP mentions.
               | 
               | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7725657/
               | 
               | https://meteor.geol.iastate.edu/gccourse/alumni/chem/carb
               | on/...
        
               | nwienert wrote:
               | Yea the methane thing has always seemed dubious, I looked
               | into it more seriously years ago and came away with the
               | same impression.
        
               | clord wrote:
               | The water cycle is a great example because it is
               | filtering the water as it goes, rapidly producing fresh
               | water that rains on the land. Methane, likewise, is a
               | short-lived byproduct of excess animal activity, and in a
               | steady state sustainable mode, we have equality. The
               | problem is the finger of oil on the scale, not the grass-
               | raised beef, just like how excess bovines produce excess
               | methane.
        
               | clord wrote:
               | The land with cattle on are the most productive, as they
               | get quite a compliment of natural fertilizer from the
               | cattle. I would say cattle do not spoil the land, but
               | improve it. This can't help but be the case, given the
               | way grass responds to being eaten.
               | 
               | Additionally, once the grazers improve grass life, the
               | water-table improves. The worst lakes in our area are
               | surrounded by fertilized annual crops. Their water is
               | polluted with nitrogen fertilizers and are very poor
               | quality, with blue-green algae blooms, and as a result
               | are not swimmable. My friend lost a dog to such a lake.
               | 
               | The land with active grazers in contrast, is very good at
               | preventing this problem. The best lake for 200km around
               | me is surrounded by grass-fed cattle operations, and
               | there is absolutely no problem with algae blooms.
               | 
               | I think a central problem of our time is that educated
               | elites are detached from reality, not seeing things like
               | what I mention above, and so are acting upon their false
               | perceptions, causing great harms as a result. The Apple
               | announcement today about leather acts to confirm my
               | suspicions about this.
        
               | rimliu wrote:
               | Now calculate the use of the agricultural machinery to
               | get the same number of calories from plants. I have no
               | idea how cows "spoil land and water". Have you seen a
               | cow?
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | No one ever said plant based food is carbon neutral. But
               | it uses way less carbon than cows. And yes, I've seen a
               | cow. Many. They spoil the land by trampling it and the
               | water by having their excrement run off into it.
        
             | boringg wrote:
             | I think what you are doing is definitely better than some
             | of the specific agriculture feedstocks for cows that
             | increase the enteric emissions of cows to make them grow
             | quickly. That said it isn't carbon neutral - the digestive
             | systems of cows produce methane from food. Methane is
             | between 24- 29 times more impactful then carbon for global
             | warming.
             | 
             | Cows still have a signifiant impact on especially as a
             | function of how large the industry has become.
             | 
             | And to your point - wasting hides is also not great. Would
             | be great if we were less wasteful in general.
        
               | clord wrote:
               | I suspect that because of conservation of energy, methane
               | is a highly reactive over the short term, but ultimately
               | an insignificant element in the big picture IF you ignore
               | the massive oil inputs humans are adding to the system.
               | That is to say, methane on its own is not a reason to
               | discourage digging up oil to make grain, which is used to
               | feed cattle.
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | It's hard to know for sure. The most common analysis,
           | following the PEFCR standard, takes the carbon impact of cows
           | and then divides it up in a certain ratio between flesh and
           | leather products, then adds the tanning and production steps.
           | Arguably it would be fairer to treat leather as purely a
           | byproduct, which would dramatically reduce the resulting
           | carbon footprint numbers for leather.
        
             | Solvate8441 wrote:
             | Would the price of meat go up without the sale of leather?
             | If so, I think it's more fair to call it a coproduct rather
             | than a byproduct.
        
           | saiya-jin wrote:
           | Replace killing cows with micro plastic pollution, slap Apple
           | price on it and call it an eco improvement.
           | 
           | In few years full reverse, cleaning up the planet while
           | supporting free range happy lives of cows. Really, who
           | actually buys this in-your-face bullshit? There are proper
           | technical improvements to talk about.
        
             | notJim wrote:
             | I learned recently that microplastics are primarily from
             | fabrics. Our polyester/synthetic workout clothes shed them
             | in the washer and they end up everywhere. Plastics also
             | generally have a pretty low carbon footprint, ironically.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Apple's new "FineWoven" products seem to be fabric-like.
        
               | notJim wrote:
               | Sure, but I doubt many people will be throwing them in
               | the washing machine.
        
               | eep_social wrote:
               | Also tires
               | 
               | https://microplastics.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s
               | 435...
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | There are interesting second-order effects. For example, this
           | will tend to make wholesale leather less expensive, for
           | producers of third-party bands and other small items (I
           | assume that large items use a different type of leather,
           | since they require larger swathes).
           | 
           | I'm surprised they're pricing these new fabric bands at $99.
           | If they sold these alongside leather bands, would they sell
           | at that price? Seems like they're trying to position them as
           | a replacement for a premium product, but without any proof
           | that they are worthy of the lofty price.
        
             | elondaits wrote:
             | The braided solo loops have the same price ($99), it was
             | not exclusively for leather bands.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | Yikes! I guess that's why I buy more AAPL stock than
               | Apple Watches.
        
           | seu wrote:
           | One of the issues is that the tanning process requires the
           | use of toxic chemicals, that are afterward often released to
           | the environment.
        
             | ipqk wrote:
             | USA & europe tanneries are usually pretty regulated and
             | treat their wastewater. Other countries may vary.
        
             | fnordpiglet wrote:
             | Well - they could just tan the leather the old fashioned
             | way and use the cow brains.
             | 
             | https://www.leather-dictionary.com/index.php/Brain_tanning
        
               | jjkaczor wrote:
               | Yeah, but then what would they make dog food and jello
               | out of?
               | 
               | /s
        
               | babyshake wrote:
               | I'd love to see Apple's slick marketing video about how
               | your new Apple Watch strap was tanned with cow brains.
        
               | crawancon wrote:
               | "we asked ourselves what would a cow think about this?
               | 
               | so to do that we really wanted to get inside a cows
               | brain.
               | 
               | we figure dok now that we're here, let's explode it out
               | onto the platter of dead skin of that same animal to
               | capture it's essence.
               | 
               | so without further adieu
               | 
               | I present to you
               | 
               | iBrainSplatStainedWatchStrap"
        
           | car wrote:
           | Leather itself is a driver of deforestation and not just a
           | secondary byproduct.
           | 
           | Why alternatives to leather matter:
           | 
           |  _Nowhere to hide: how the fashion industry is linked to
           | amazon rainforest destruction [0]_
           | 
           | [0] https://www.stand.earth/publication/forest-
           | conservation/amaz...
           | 
           | Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29433500
        
             | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
             | FYI your link is bad, should be
             | https://stand.earth/resources/nowhere-to-hide-how-the-
             | fashio... .
             | 
             | I read that article, but I disagree that the conclusion is
             | "Leather itself is a driver of deforestation and not just a
             | secondary byproduct."
             | 
             | That is, what I'd like to know is whether all those cows in
             | Brazil would still exist even without a leather marker, but
             | just for their beef. The linked research sort of tries to
             | make that argument, but it doesn't really provide any
             | convincing evidence.
        
           | FrankoDelMar wrote:
           | I read that somewhere as well, but I can't find any reputable
           | sources.
        
           | loopback_zero wrote:
           | I'd go as far as saying that leather accessories are actually
           | even better for environment since they easily outlast any
           | fabric or silicone ones. It's really just shameless
           | greenwashing from Apple, nothing more.
        
             | knodi123 wrote:
             | > since they easily outlast any fabric or silicone ones
             | 
             | perhaps not as true when they are phone accessories. ;-)
        
             | nomel wrote:
             | > I'd go as far as saying
             | 
             | Citing is much preferred to saying.
        
         | skhavari wrote:
         | All software teams are busy porting apps to Vision Pro
        
         | jbm wrote:
         | On one hand they talk about getting rid of leather, then they
         | talk about getting something with a "suede" feeling. I hope we
         | aren't replacing leather with microplastics-infused future
         | garbage.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | Of course that's what's happening. How else would Apple
           | reduce its microplastic footprint come 2035, if they didn't
           | stealthily increase it in 2023? Perhaps they'll cut down on
           | microplastic pollution with a return to 'natural' materials.
           | I wonder if leather might fit the bill?
        
             | Arn_Thor wrote:
             | Artificial leather is mostly fungus based these days
        
             | scrollaway wrote:
             | [flagged]
        
               | noknownsender wrote:
               | Some of us are really just that cynical.
        
           | Klonoar wrote:
           | There exist leather alternatives that use no plastic. ;P
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | If they actually cared about the environment they would have
         | spent that time describing how easy they made it to replace the
         | screen and battery on every announced device.
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | I really liked the Mother Nature part. It may be greenwashing
         | but it's encouraging to see the world's biggest company taking
         | these steps.
         | 
         | Planting forests, installing solar grids, carbon neutral
         | offices, that all costs the company, it's not cost savings
         | disguised as green actions. Sure it has marketing value, but
         | that's hard to measure.
         | 
         | Smaller plastic free packaging and shipping by sea on the other
         | hand could be made to save money without care for the
         | environment. Being able to market it as green is just an added
         | bonus.
        
         | abraxas wrote:
         | I wonder how much worse accidental UI interactions will be due
         | to smaller bezels. I alredy despise phones that I have to pick
         | up _really_ carefully not to engage some completely unwanted
         | gesture.
        
           | Octoth0rpe wrote:
           | The best part about smaller bezels is that you can always buy
           | a protective case that adds more bezel. Inversely, large
           | bezels never get smaller.
        
             | abraxas wrote:
             | Cases make phones bulkier, sometimes significantly so. No
             | thanks.
        
               | jonas21 wrote:
               | So you like the smaller bezels then?
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | Yep, I see pretty much zero reason to go with the 15 Pro,
           | other than to avoid the terrible colors of the 15. The Pro
           | Max gets the better camera, but the smaller Pro seems like a
           | lousy deal -- especially if the smaller bezels result in more
           | accidental touches.
        
             | zetazzed wrote:
             | Woah, fairly confusing. Looks like the base Pro gets the
             | same "pro camera" according to this:
             | https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/ But the zoom options
             | are different so it's clearly not the same.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | They also talked confusingly about optical-quality zoom,
               | or some such thing, on the lower end phones. They made it
               | sound like you can either take a 48MP photo or a zoomed
               | 24MP photo. Sounds like digital zoom to me...
        
               | ChristianGeek wrote:
               | Look at the optical zoom options. Granted, it's not
               | obvious that the Max has 5x while the base Pro only has
               | 3x.
        
         | accrual wrote:
         | > but these were all leaked in advance.
         | 
         | Does being leaked in advance have anything to do with their
         | presentation? "Oh that was leaked, I guess we shouldn't bother
         | mentioning it".
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | Not strictly speaking, but in this case there were hardly and
           | exciting leaks. Some people care about USB-C (I don't), and
           | some people care about the new zoom levels (I do, but not
           | enough to buy an enormous phone).
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | I have recently been led to believe that people eat so much
         | beef that so a ton of potential cow hide goes to waste instead
         | of being turned into leather because there isn't enough demand
         | for leather (compared to beef).
         | 
         | Is this true or false?
         | 
         | If it's true - then how is leather bad for the environment?
         | 
         | I don't eat beef - but it's interesting to me how many people
         | eat hamburgers and then look at someone with a leather bag like
         | they're the devil.
         | 
         | As with a lot of things environmental - this seems purely
         | idealist and not realist.
        
           | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
           | They are imagining it like an elephant killed just for its
           | tusks. For some leather goods made from certain animals this
           | might be true, but today almost all parts of the animal
           | usually have a buyer and end up getting used in some way,
           | even if it's just ground up into dogfood.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | Instead of supposing something, how about you take Google for
           | a stroll and figure out the (very interesting) answer to this
           | yourself. Spoiler: leather actually has a profoundly grave
           | impact, and it's not just a ,,free" by-product of meat.
        
             | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
             | Googling can also tell you the opposite. YMMV.
             | 
             | The main answer I get is that leather is a by-product of
             | meat, but some claim it is a co-product.
        
       | lprd wrote:
       | I miss Jobs. These prerecorded presentations are soulless and
       | almost embarrassing at times.
       | 
       | Happy to see USB-C on the iPhone (thanks EU) and no price hikes.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | It felt like I am going through HR training. Painful.
        
         | brailsafe wrote:
         | Almost creepily robotic and zuck-like
        
         | zyang wrote:
         | It's too polished. COVID is over. Bring back the live demos.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | It feels like watching an hours-long commercial. Way too
           | produced and slick.
        
           | KerrAvon wrote:
           | COVID is not over. https://health.clevelandclinic.org/is-the-
           | pandemic-over/
        
             | RamblingCTO wrote:
             | COVID as a health crisis is over. It's endemic, just like
             | the flu.
        
               | squidsoup wrote:
               | 65 million people are estimated to have long covid, for
               | which there is no treatment - premature to declare the
               | health crisis over.
        
               | luxuryballs wrote:
               | "no treatment" aka "no profitable treatment" so
               | ironically you have to "do your own research", hint:
               | ivermectin has been known to work since mid-2020, by
               | neutralizing the viral mRNA it frees up the immune system
               | to more efficiently focus on the virus itself, but you
               | don't have to take my word for it, in all seriousness, do
               | your own research (also no more freebies but look into
               | the Emergency Use Authorization Act "known treatments"
               | clause if you think "ivermectin can't be useful, they
               | would never suppress a useful treatment, that's a
               | conspiracy theory", etc)
        
           | anibalin wrote:
           | I was thinking the same thing. They should go back to the
           | stage.
        
         | TheAtomic wrote:
         | They are so CRINGEY. That Mother Nature thing, wow.
        
           | callalex wrote:
           | Mother Nature didn't mention replaceable batteries even once,
           | they must have beaten her up so badly that she holds her
           | tongue in front of Tim now.
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | The linked website looks like something from a company that
         | knows they don't even have to try at all and they're guaranteed
         | to sell more phones than any other company in the world, and it
         | shows.
         | 
         | And, yet, ~20% of the population will see this news release,
         | and talk about how clean the lines are, and how perfectly
         | worded every sentence is, as if it was handed to us from God
         | himself on stone tablets.
         | 
         | Cultism is a very interesting thing.
        
           | faitswulff wrote:
           | Actually, God upgraded to the iPad Pro 12.9-inch, Wi-Fi (6th
           | Generation, 2022). Lithography has come a long way since
           | Moses.
        
         | lofaszvanitt wrote:
         | Yeah, the psychotic robo zombies controlling the corp takes its
         | toll. Jobs also had this cult like woooism aura, but these
         | "people"... are straight from They Live :DD.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | i m just surprised that they built an expensive boring building
         | and nobody is ever inside it
        
         | lagrange77 wrote:
         | It's interesting that even big money can't buy mojo.
        
         | sylens wrote:
         | I think the need for a special presentation for yearly
         | iterative updates to a phone and watch is pretty minimal these
         | days. Just put out a press release
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | You cannot deny the press hype that is created by this event.
           | 
           | It's like coke: "Why advertise Coke? Everyone drinks it."
        
           | Aleklart wrote:
           | funny how first ever 3nm cpu, ray tracing and console grade
           | games on smartphone, titanium case and state of the art new
           | camera crammed in thinnest case found no excitement on tech
           | forum, but physically inferior usb-c that causing all kinds
           | of hardware problems considered worthy. Well, now you can
           | swap iphones as often as android due to broken connector. Or
           | buy apple care and off warranty repairs from Apple. Another
           | hundred millions for Apple, thanks EU!
        
             | Rexogamer wrote:
             | i had a perfectly good Air 3 essentially die on me because
             | the lightning port wore down and the hassle of getting it
             | fixed was outweighed by getting a 5 with USB-C. same thing
             | with my Mini 2 before that. touchwood, all of my USB-C
             | devices have lasted perfectly well (including a Switch that
             | is _older_ than the Air 3). USB-C also puts a lot more of
             | the stress on the cable, which is much easier and cheaper
             | to replace, and (as pointed out in the event) the switch
             | means you can use one connector for a wide variety of
             | devices. i 've long owned Apple devices (certainly iPads)
             | and i'm only annoyed they took this long.
        
           | seydor wrote:
           | apple can't do that, they are kinda like a fashion brand
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | I'm starting to buy into these rumors that Apple might buy
         | Disney, because they're doing the same wooden performances as
         | the kids on Disney Channel. Lots of weird hand motions.
        
           | SCUSKU wrote:
           | Sent this video making fun of the Apple Hands(tm) to a friend
           | at Apple, she loved it. [1]
           | 
           | Some middle ground between Tim Cook and Steve Ballmer would
           | bring more excitement into the game, and make it a little
           | more human!
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NBw0TzFczi4
        
             | joezydeco wrote:
             | That's perfect! Saving this one for later.
             | 
             | And now, back to Tim.
        
             | jonplackett wrote:
             | Love this
        
           | beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
           | Yeah, the presentation style often screams "I've taken
           | exactly 3 acting classes to learn how to present". The style
           | is remarkably uniform too, like they're constantly
           | remembering how to move their hands.
        
         | sixQuarks wrote:
         | Felt like I was watching a presentation made with AI actors.
         | The long pauses, PR-driven language, it was all so sterile and
         | politically correct. Very cringe.
        
           | schleck8 wrote:
           | I get the sterile feeling part but how did you make the jump
           | to "political correctness"?
        
             | 0xDEF wrote:
             | There is a whole segment of society that cannot watch a 12
             | minute video unless there is at least one offensive joke.
             | They are the audience of every right-wing grift YouTuber
             | and dirtbag leftist podcaster.
             | 
             | Everything else is "politically correct" according to this
             | segment.
        
             | earthnail wrote:
             | Apple over the last years has made a very conscious effort
             | to have a set of speakers with diverse backgrounds.
             | 
             | It's good in many ways, but also hard to ignore just how
             | obvious that effort is once you realise it's there. That's
             | true for all presentations, including the dev talks at
             | WWDC.
             | 
             | It is hard for me to push aside the impression that
             | nowadays the speakers - regardless their background - are
             | entirely chosen for optical reasons. My only favourite
             | moment in a recent big presentation was the M1 chip part
             | with Srouji. That guy is not made for the camera but man he
             | lives hardware with every fibre of his soul.
        
               | schleck8 wrote:
               | I think that's fine honestly, if you want to maximize
               | your talent pool you have to motivate the entirety of
               | society to become interested and not just the groups
               | already overrepresented. For example it's not like women
               | are genetically predetermined to lack interest in
               | hardware, that's a social construct.
        
       | TheAtomic wrote:
       | Is Nvidia about to have an iPhone moment? Nvidia releases an AI-
       | based phone with an assistant you talk to, no other UI necessary.
       | It could remain aware during calls like an available assistant so
       | you can direct it to do follow up tasks, like check calendars,
       | etc. It could completely change the paradigm and disrupt Apple's
       | business model entirely.
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | Nothing in Nvidia's past even hints at them being able to pull
         | off half of what you wished for and consumers are not
         | interested in an audio-only phone. There are just way too many
         | things that work better with a screen (like pictures or games,
         | also I like to read articles not listen to them).
         | 
         | The only think Nvidia has going for them is hardware and CUDA,
         | I don't even think they are very competent in the software
         | department let alone consumer-facing software.
        
         | kortilla wrote:
         | Nvidia doesn't do AI though. They would need a software partner
         | to do the entire OS and software stack.
        
       | Simulacra wrote:
       | My iPhone 8 is still working great...
        
       | jonpurdy wrote:
       | I haven't bought a new iPhone since the 5. I typically would wait
       | a year and buy a used year-old model for half price (with
       | AppleCare). But I didn't do this after the XS, and now with Pro
       | and non-Pro models it's incredibly complex to find the best value
       | since used prices are so dynamic and there are so many models to
       | choose from.
       | 
       | Might be time to just buy a new one with USB-C and use it for 5+
       | years.
        
         | lozenge wrote:
         | You don't need the best value, you just need sufficient value.
        
       | cs702 wrote:
       | TL;DR:
       | 
       | 1. USB-C. Yay!
       | 
       | 2. New colors. Apple repeatedly refers to the colors as
       | "stunning," but they look like regular colors to me.
       | 
       | 3. Incremental improvements. Pretty much what you expect every
       | year.
        
       | uf00lme wrote:
       | Am I wrong or is iPhone 15 usb-c is usb2 just with a different
       | connector. Seems to me like only the pro is getting usb3 even
       | though usb3 was first released in like 2008. Update: confirmed in
       | iPhone specs page.
        
         | Kirby64 wrote:
         | Maybe it matters to you, but I can't remember the last time I
         | used cabled data transfer capabilities on any phone. As long as
         | fast charging is supported (which, I'm sure it does), 99.9% of
         | users won't care at all.
         | 
         | I am a bit surprised there isn't a Thunderbolt controller in
         | the Pro, though. Seems like they already have the IP since it's
         | part of the iPads already.
        
           | jxramos wrote:
           | might be more popular with that crowd that doesn't backup on
           | icloud but to their local desktop. For that non icloud folks
           | I wonder how many use cable vs wifi.
        
             | callalex wrote:
             | I'm using WiFi 6 (not even 6E) for that and the limiting
             | speed factor for me seems to be the SSD that I am writing
             | the data to. I could throw money at that to make it faster,
             | but I also don't really care because I'm asleep while it's
             | backing up anyways, just like how you probably couldn't
             | tell me how long your iCloud backup takes.
        
         | jxramos wrote:
         | that's very weird, what's the BOM savings here? Seems like a
         | custom part regardless, is it the controller chip that's
         | cheaper? USB C for 2.0 seems baffling I agree.
        
           | Lord-Jobo wrote:
           | Its not about the BOM or the cost, its about creating a more
           | clear "this is the trash one" image of the base model, so
           | more people will buy the Pro.
        
             | jxramos wrote:
             | ouch, yah without some alternate explanation it kind of
             | reeks of a deliberate caste system being created in the
             | Apple ecosystem. Only certain folks would get it.
             | 
             | I had my first taste of this with the macro support only
             | showing up on the Pro model. It's such an old feature I was
             | baffled the other device we bought didn't have that
             | capability.
             | https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/453470/is-
             | there-a-...
        
           | isatty wrote:
           | Actually BOM will differ because lightning can do USB2 so
           | it's probably reusing the same chip. USB-C needs a different
           | chip and is harder to route too so I'm not surprised.
        
         | ex3ndr wrote:
         | And pro should be usb4
        
           | uf00lme wrote:
           | It's no coincidence that Intel just released info on
           | thunderbolt 5 spec yesterday. How much money could it really
           | add to goto the next usb? Is there some kind of hardware
           | design he'll going on behind the scenes
        
             | pgeorgi wrote:
             | "USB4" is really thunderbolt 3 with a few compatibility
             | tweaks. As such, it's a very different beast from USB3
             | (which is much closer to the USBs that preceded it): more
             | like "external PCIe" than "USB".
        
         | ZekeSulastin wrote:
         | I imagine most people - especially those not using the Pro
         | models - only care about universal charging. I think I've
         | connected my iPhone to my PC for data transfer maybe two or
         | three times since I switched ~six years ago, and even on
         | Android I used network shares and such more often than not.
        
           | uf00lme wrote:
           | I'd agree most people can happily just use WiFi speeds for
           | most tasks, but I'm just shocked that apple would aim to save
           | money or force a product differentiation by using usb2. It's
           | fairly ancient now.
        
             | ZekeSulastin wrote:
             | I wonder if the base A16 simply doesn't support USB 3 and
             | they weren't motivated to change that - the 14 Pro/Max last
             | year was still limited to USB 2 after all.
        
           | wilg wrote:
           | I feel like Qi is really the universal charging standard, but
           | USBC is good too
        
             | phoenk wrote:
             | USB C is definitely more universal, it is used for laptops
             | and peripherals and other random devices. Qi charging is
             | mostly limited to phones and certain phone accessories,
             | which usually also have USB C.
        
       | post_break wrote:
       | USB 2.0 on the 15 is kind of a joke considering it came out in
       | April of 2000. 60hz, USB 2.0, getting a bit dated. I know a bunch
       | of people will excuse it but at that price I think it's not
       | ideal.
       | 
       | Oh and RIP 13 Mini, you'll be my phone until I can't use it
       | anymore I suppose.
        
         | llm_nerd wrote:
         | Sounds like the A16 just doesn't have the I/O block for USB 3.
         | They are using the chip from the last generation for the base
         | model.
         | 
         | Though to put this in a realistic context, I am curious what
         | percentage of iPhones have ever, over their usage lifespan,
         | made a data connection over USB. I suspect that percentage is
         | low single-digit percentages, and -- again speculating -- I
         | would wager they are almost always by users with the pro
         | models.
         | 
         | Is it lame that it's USB 2.0? Yes. Will it matter at all for
         | the overwhelming majority of users? Not in the slightest.
        
           | post_break wrote:
           | Why would I use a lightning cable when getting data on or off
           | the device is faster over Wifi. It's kind of a trick
           | question, why don't you use this slower protocol? See no
           | reason to upgrade it no one uses it!
        
             | llm_nerd wrote:
             | It really isn't a trick question. If your needs are 100%
             | satisfied through wireless, why would you ever care? I
             | suspect for the overwhelming majority of iPhone users, even
             | if the wired option was infinitely fast they would never
             | have used it. We're long past the days of an iPhone
             | suckling on iTunes.
             | 
             | The exception to this -- and there are exceptions -- tend
             | to be "pro" users. If you're actually using the iPhone for
             | video production in any way, USB 2.0 is a brutal
             | limitation, and has long been a noted annoyance when you're
             | transferring massive video files. Lucky for those people
             | they'll be Pro buyers and will enjoy USB 3 (and maybe WiFi
             | 6E? Not sure if this was delivered).
        
               | post_break wrote:
               | What's the safest way to ski? Don't ski.
        
               | lkois wrote:
               | > It really isn't a trick question. If your needs are
               | 100% satisfied through wireless, why would you ever care?
               | 
               | THIS is a trick question.
        
           | Infinitesimus wrote:
           | The number will be higher if you consider wired CarPlay
        
             | masklinn wrote:
             | Wired carplay has been using USB 2.0 from the beginning,
             | and it's always been fine. Why would it change?
        
             | andrewxdiamond wrote:
             | USB 2.0 and Lightning share the same speeds. Nothing
             | changed
        
           | motoboi wrote:
           | They put USB 2.0 just to save a feature to include in another
           | future release. Iphone 20: now with USB 3.0!
           | 
           | And the raspberry pi has USB 3.0 for god's sake! It's not a
           | matter of a dedicated processor block on the chip.
           | 
           | <english is a second language to me, this is intended as
           | humourous, not aggressive>
        
             | llm_nerd wrote:
             | It definitely serves as a differentiation between Pro and
             | base, and I'm sure they'll get some additional pro upgrades
             | by people just looking at a piece of paper and deciding
             | that they must have USB 3.
             | 
             | However the lack of USB 3 IO on the existing chip from last
             | year is a very real limitation. The Raspberry Pi 4 supports
             | USB 3 via a separate host controller (the VL805)
             | communicated with over PCI-e, given that the core SoC
             | doesn't have the IO blocks...basically the same deal. That
             | VL805 by itself is almost the size of the A16. Now of
             | course Apple could make a USB 3 host controller
             | dramatically smaller, but then they'd have a new SoC.
        
           | skunkworker wrote:
           | And those users who will use the Pro for video/photos can now
           | transfer them to external storage while shooting (finally).
        
           | accrual wrote:
           | I'll raise my hand and say I still sync my iPhone over USB.
           | Happy to move to WiFi, I just haven't, as my existing
           | workflow works fine. I also have an old 2015 MBPr, so that
           | plays into it as well.
        
           | NikolaNovak wrote:
           | I have had a company mandated iPhone for about 4-5 years.
           | 
           | First year, I tried to transfer data via USB.
           | 
           | After I accepted that Apple hates me personally and does not
           | want me to transfer any of my voice memos, photos, or videos,
           | or documents, or files via USB (I don't have a macbook), you
           | are indeed correct and I'm one of those people who does not
           | make a data connection via USB to my iPhone. But while stat
           | is true, as with all such stats, devil is in the details :).
        
             | whycome wrote:
             | > Apple hates me
             | 
             | Actually, you're exactly the person they love. Just enough
             | annoyance to consider a macbook and iCloud.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | I used to do physical backups until iOS16 arrived with
           | advanced data protection (ie, E2EE in iCloud for backups).
        
           | wombat-man wrote:
           | It's quite slow to even do a music sync, but I might be doing
           | something wrong.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | whakim wrote:
         | I will say the 15 Pro is a little smaller than the 14 Pro, and
         | while it isn't a small phone per se, it's a lot smaller than
         | most Android flagships. That's something at least.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | I don't remember the last time I used a wire to transfer data
         | to/from my phone. This seems like a non issue.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | they are holding it for next year's upgrade
        
         | bit_logic wrote:
         | USB 2.0 is a missed opportunity for bringing Stage
         | Manager/screen mirroring feature from iPadOS to iPhone. This is
         | already possible with iPad and a USB A + HDMI -> USB C adapter
         | (plug keyboard/mouse into USB A, monitor into HDMI, and USB C
         | into iPad).
        
         | GloriousKoji wrote:
         | USB3 (on USBC) is actually asymmetric signaling so you need
         | either a separate chip or digital logic to handle muxing the
         | signals around which is extra cost Apple probably doesn't want
         | to eat. The USB-2 pins on USBC are symmetrical so nothing extra
         | required.
        
         | dmix wrote:
         | Has the EU legislation factored in the USB-*(D?) might come
         | next? Hopefully it doesn't slow down adoption of new
         | technology.
         | 
         | The main downside instead of buying a lightning cable that
         | always work we now have to decipher the 10 minor variations of
         | USB-C's various speeds/power now with zero consistency in
         | naming schemes or amazon titles.
        
           | post_break wrote:
           | The iPhone is literally the last hold out for USB C. I'm
           | pretty sure every modern Android phone supports USB PD and I
           | think the EU is requiring PD charging as well, but nothing on
           | connectivity speeds.
        
           | dzikimarian wrote:
           | EU legislation has review built-in. No way it's going to be
           | slower than switch from lightning.
           | 
           | Also from other commenters say Apple implemented USB 2.0, so
           | you don't have to care about type of USB-C cable you're
           | buying - these are for advanced features which as it seems
           | are not present in iPhone 15.
        
           | zapnuk wrote:
           | If there is a USB-*, the EU can just update the policy for
           | new devices with a grace period of X years. Problem solved.
        
         | whoopdedo wrote:
         | > RIP 13 Mini
         | 
         | I wish I had been warned so I could have grabbed one before it
         | was gone.
        
           | data-ottawa wrote:
           | You can still buy one from other retailers
        
             | lh7777 wrote:
             | Any suggestions? I see Best Buy has some open box minis for
             | $630 and there are plenty of 3rd party refurbs for around
             | $500. Feels like I'd have been better off buying a brand
             | new one for $600 yesterday.
        
               | pkulak wrote:
               | I keep using Swappa, and it still works, even though no
               | individual sellers are left.
        
             | whoopdedo wrote:
             | But for how long?
             | 
             | Can't buy an unlocked phone from a carrier. Only other
             | authorized resellers either don't sell phones (B&H,
             | Adorama, Staples), have a limited selection which is in-
             | store only (Target, Walmart), which leaves only Best Buy
             | and right now I see everything on backorder. Now that Apple
             | isn't taking new orders there's a good chance those will be
             | cancelled.
             | 
             | And then there's the roulette wheel of buying from Amazon
             | or Newegg where you might get a refurbished phone
             | advertised as "new" if it isn't a literal brick in a box.
             | 
             | Still comes down to my fault for being slow to act. I said
             | I wished for a warning but you know what they say about
             | wishes.
             | 
             | (For context of how slow I am, I'd be upgrading from a SE
             | (2016))
        
         | data-ottawa wrote:
         | On the topic of the mini being removed, they also removed the
         | plus and 13/14 Pro models.
         | 
         | I wonder if they had a lot of 13 Pro purchases after they
         | discounted it last year, which they felt could have been 14 Pro
         | purchases.
        
           | ipqk wrote:
           | They always remove Pros after a year. See:
           | https://daringfireball.net/2023/09/apples_two-
           | pronged_annual...
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | They were selling the 13 Pro after the 14 Pro came out? I was
           | pretty sure they always removed last year's Pro from the
           | lineup when the new Pro comes out. Meanwhile last year's
           | baseline models will stick around at a reduced price.
        
           | NikolaNovak wrote:
           | Boo.
           | 
           | Just like with some car manufacturers, if you want e.g.
           | increased safety or radar cruise control, you also need $10k
           | of leather seats and sunroofs; by removing previous Pro
           | models, Apple basically adds a _massive_ price premium to the
           | zoom lens.
           | 
           | As this is honestly the only thing I would need from a new
           | phone, my wife and I stay on our iPhone XR year after year. I
           | just can't pay $1500CAD merely to get more optical zoom than
           | my existing phone :-/
        
             | r00fus wrote:
             | Or just buy used.
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | usb c is garbage. It may be common, but it has atrocious
       | compatibility. It's less durable than lightning , and hard to
       | plug in.
       | 
       | Thank European socialists for imposing a worse product on
       | everyone.
        
         | weatherlight wrote:
         | Ahh yes, let's blame "Socialists" for this one..
        
           | lawlessone wrote:
           | It's the kind of thing most people would be delighted to
           | blamed for.
        
         | tclover wrote:
         | Somebody forces you to buy this phone?
        
           | tonymet wrote:
           | they forced apple to replace a good connector with a worse
           | one
        
         | henry2023 wrote:
         | They didn't force apple to replace lighting to USB-C
         | everywhere. Just Europe. If Apple decided to replace it
         | everywhere is because it's obviously superior.
        
         | monsieurgaufre wrote:
         | While you may have a point about the durability, i do not think
         | you know/understand the meaning of all the words you used.
        
           | tonymet wrote:
           | you may have a usb c connector, but there's no way to know
           | what protocol or current it supports.
        
             | jcrash wrote:
             | True. Thats is pretty annoying. Maybe they should color
             | code them like USB-3 having the blue?
        
             | monsieurgaufre wrote:
             | I conceed you that point. It's gonna be annoying for a
             | while.
        
         | lawlessone wrote:
         | haha what?
         | 
         | >Thank European socialists for imposing a worse product on
         | everyone.
         | 
         | Universal Socialist Bus?
        
       | seeg wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | sneak wrote:
       | "We have removed the Lightning port so now you can plug in your
       | cables which are identified by the lightning bolt icon."
        
       | thehours wrote:
       | > Available starting on September 18, iCloud+ will offer two new
       | plans: 6TB for $29.99 (U.S.) per month and 12TB for $59.99 (U.S.)
       | per month, providing additional storage to keep files, photos,
       | videos, and more safe, accessible, and easy to share.
       | 
       | Interesting to see Apple finally bumping the upper limit on
       | iCloud storage.
        
       | ruined wrote:
       | can i run firefox on it yet
        
       | sytelus wrote:
       | This felt like really let down release. I am usually the first
       | one to upgrade iPhone no matter what but this year I felt no
       | attachment to any of these "new" things. Just didn't cared at
       | all.
       | 
       | The things I would have cared:
       | 
       | - Dual screen
       | 
       | - AR/3D photo/video features in phone
       | 
       | - Much better battery life
       | 
       | - Full satellite communication
       | 
       | - OS-wide AI features, massively upgraded Siri, AI-first mobile
       | browser, auto-complete, spell+grammer check, rewrites
       | 
       | - Even more AI features: Better reader-mode, PDF mode, maps
       | infused with AI, super-res videos with structure from motion,
       | flower/bird/food/tree/everything ID, so on and on.
       | 
       | What's going on with Apple?
       | 
       | The 2020s were "Internet in your pocket" and 2030s should be
       | "Super smart AI in your pocket". Apple product managers feel so
       | completely out of touch.
        
         | jackdeansmith wrote:
         | 3D photo/video features did come to the pro phones
         | flower/bird/food/tree/everything ID is in the new OS, it
         | identified a plant genus in one of my photos yesterday. Pretty
         | cool!
        
         | quitit wrote:
         | Hmm, quite a few of the features you've listed are not only in
         | the next iOS, but already in older versions and the current.
         | 
         | AR already exists with the lidar-enabled apps, maps is already
         | AR enabled in landscape mode, 3D Video "spatial" recording was
         | announced.
         | 
         | AI features such as sentence auto-complete, upgraded spelling
         | and grammar are already announced for iOS 17, due out in a few
         | weeks.
         | 
         | AI identification of objects is already present and links
         | through to Siri knowledge for explanations/further information
         | (e.g. what breed of flower, landmark, type of cat is this?)
        
         | derekdahmer wrote:
         | Damn give it a minute. All this LMM/GPT stuff just blew up in
         | the last 9 months.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | For an apple user on HN, you're expecting them to act like
         | Oneplus.
         | 
         | Apple doesn't (usually) do something first, but they often do
         | new things well.
         | 
         | LLMs have been mainstream for what, nine months? They aren't
         | going to go all-in on new LLM features that quickly. And
         | if/when they do, it'll just be labelled Siri with new
         | capabilities.
         | 
         | Satellite communications is incredible complex, and, I expect,
         | difficult. Hell, for SOS you need to pause and point your phone
         | in a particular direction. The scale just isn't there.
         | 
         | Spatial video was announced, which is exactly what you are
         | asking for in bullet two.
         | 
         | Like, I don't get what you're saying. By the way, we're in the
         | 2020s now. The 2030s are... ah, six years away.
        
       | Kipters wrote:
       | USB 2.0 on a 1000$ phone in 2023 is a bad joke. Boring update,
       | both this and the pro but of course it will sell millions.
        
         | fckgw wrote:
         | The regular iPhone starts at $799
        
           | SpacePortKnight wrote:
           | That does not include any tax.
        
             | ezfe wrote:
             | Tax doesn't apply elsewhere. You can buy an iPhone without
             | paying tax in multiple states.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | $829 for everyone not using Verizon.
           | 
           | Edit: this is incorrect, iPhone 15 starts at $799 for all.
        
             | fckgw wrote:
             | It's $799 on all three major carriers and $829 unlocked.
             | It's on the Apple website you can look this stuff up
             | yourself
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | I see, Apple is giving the same price for iPhone 15 for
               | all 3 carriers.
               | 
               | But if you check 14/13/SE, then if you do not chose
               | Verizon, the price is $30 higher. I bought a 13 mini
               | yesterday morning, which is when I experienced the extra
               | $30, and I assumed it applies to all the iPhones.
               | 
               | Apparently, current year iPhones are excluded from the
               | $30 surcharge for non Verizon subscribers.
               | 
               | Also, all iPhones sold on apple.com are unlocked, even
               | the $799 ones. Only exception is if you buy with an ATT
               | subsidized contract.
        
       | m4tthumphrey wrote:
       | I am very disappointed in myself and in their trade in offer. I
       | made the switch from Android to iOS after 15 years or so of being
       | an Android die hard in July, with the intention of considering
       | the 15 as a trade in. They offered me PS635 for a 14 Pro Max 256.
       | Less than half what I paid 2 months ago.
        
         | henry2023 wrote:
         | I'd wait until the iPhone 20 if I'd purchased a new phone two
         | months ago.
        
         | RockRobotRock wrote:
         | Swappa
        
       | 8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote:
       | Is anybody else somewhat underwhelmed by the innovation here?
       | Faster CPU, different colors, new case, better camera, better
       | battery, thinner bezels etc. Same thing we see every.. single..
       | year..
       | 
       | I'm glad they're taking risks with the Vision Pro, but it feels
       | like the phone has become a highly conservative platform.
       | 
       | Maybe this is just the reality of having a product that sells as
       | many units as the iPhone does every single year.
        
         | asciimov wrote:
         | Apple has ran out of design gas. But to be honest even in the
         | late Jobs/Ive years they were running on fumes with 'thin'
         | being the last hill to climb.
         | 
         | I really wish Apple would try a different design aesthetic,
         | such as a move to something warmer and friendlier than the last
         | 20+ years.
        
       | user3939382 wrote:
       | Do we still care about the health and pay of the laborers in the
       | factories making these things?
        
         | rs_rs_rs_rs_rs wrote:
         | I don't and I don't think you do too.
        
       | narenst wrote:
       | How does the camera on these new phones with mirrorless cameras
       | at less than $1000 price point?
       | 
       | Dedicated cameras have around 20 Megapixels but much larger
       | sensor size - but does it really matter if the most I would do is
       | print them into a photobook?
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | If you don't fiddle with the phone camera photos much and are
         | happy with them, there's not much difference. A $1k-ish
         | mirrorless is a much more capable camera but it doesn't fit in
         | your pocket and has about as many controls as a nuclear reactor
         | control room.
        
       | arvidkahl wrote:
       | Looking at the A16 chip and the neural engine on it, I am really
       | happy to see machine learning and "AI stuff" moving onto my
       | phone, away from the cloud.
       | 
       | I can't wait to see phones becoming a place for _useful_ AI use
       | cases -- with the privacy improvements of on-device computation.
        
       | ajonit wrote:
       | Only Apple can make people clap and screech for introducing a
       | freaking charging port - USB C. :)
        
       | thescriptkiddie wrote:
       | no sim slot lmao have fun explaining to your carrier what an esim
       | is
        
       | alexalx666 wrote:
       | Super sad new OS versions were not released
        
         | diegorbaquero wrote:
         | iOS 17 was already announced earlier this year. Should be
         | released fully this fall.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Will be released on 9/18.
        
         | jcrash wrote:
         | You can use ios17 today, it works great
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | They are always released ~one week after the event. (date
         | appears to be September 18th, so 6 days)
        
       | sp332 wrote:
       | Man, I really miss that Playstation microsite making fun of the
       | Xbox Kinect. I think of that guy saying "WE have BUTTONS!" every
       | time someone pretends that having buttons is a revelation.
        
       | jgrahamc wrote:
       | I am sad that the Pro is getting rid of the silent button. It is
       | solid and I know when it's activated and I know it won't
       | accidentally be on. Not sure I really need another push button.
       | That silent button was/is a key feature of iPhone for me.
        
         | mholm wrote:
         | I don't think I've ever intended for the phone to be anything
         | but silent. It's a much better experience for users to be able
         | to remap what the button does, instead of depending on the few
         | users who still depend on ringtones.
        
           | jgrahamc wrote:
           | Ah. Good point. I guess I can remap this button to something
           | else and basically never use the un-silent mode!
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | I kinda feel the same way although I am excited to be able to
         | use the "action" button for other things and just leave the
         | phone muted/silent permanently (as it is currently).
        
       | redbell wrote:
       | > The fast and efficient A16 Bionic chip brings proven
       | performance to iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus..
       | 
       | > The iPhone 15 lineup offers convenient new ways to charge...
       | Both models use a USB-C connector, _a universally accepted
       | standard for charging and transferring data_
       | 
       | Only Apple can do _selling_ like this. It's clearly that
       | marketing is at its heart or even in its DNA.
       | 
       | Only Apple can sell you a brand-new phone with last year's chip
       | and still convince you that you made a _deal_. I admit that the
       | A16 is still at the top of the chips but you get the point.
       | 
       | Only Apple can bring something years old in the Android phones by
       | making the iPhone supports the universal USB-C and keeps telling
       | you about the benefits it brings to the table. Apparently, Apple
       | was forced by the EU to bring USB-C otherwise, we might not live
       | to see this happening. Anyway, I'm glad they did it.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | They should have removed the charge port completely.
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | Cool. Will be sure to buy in 3 years. I just got a phone last
       | year.
        
       | FumblingBear wrote:
       | I know a lot of people are apprehensive about the Apple Vision
       | Pro, but seeing that I'll be able to take Spatial Videos with the
       | iPhone 15 Pro Max was a huge feature for me. I can't see myself
       | ever taking those videos with the headset itself, but if I can do
       | it from my phone and re-watch the videos later, that's a massive
       | QoL improvement imo.
       | 
       | That alone makes the upgrade worth it for me since I'm planning
       | on picking up the Vision Pro!
        
         | quitit wrote:
         | That was one of the more realistic complaints about the vision
         | pro, "why would you take photos with it instead of experiencing
         | the moment directly". A few people suggested that the iPhone
         | will probably come into the equation, and it seems they were
         | correct in that thinking (the timings suggest Apple had it
         | planned this way.)
        
           | dvngnt_ wrote:
           | POV. iykyk
        
           | dexterdog wrote:
           | Have you been to anything involving kids performing in front
           | of parents? Half of them are experiencing it through their
           | phone. Very few people experience moments directly. The funny
           | part is that unless something crazy happens very few of those
           | videos ever get watched.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | I definitely try and be mindful about when I'm pulling out
             | a camera or my phone to record versus being in the moment,
             | but I do know in my family we tend to look at the stuff we
             | record pretty often. Just about every other night before we
             | go to bed one of the kids is saying "I want to look at
             | pictures", aka lets go flip through some random spots in
             | our lives and relive those memories together for ten
             | minutes as we wind down in the evening.
        
             | dahwolf wrote:
             | Well, not anymore. You can now take a wide landscape shot
             | of some beautiful scenery, and then go home and sit on a
             | couch all by yourself to look at it with a VisionPro.
             | Allegedly, it's impressive, almost like you were there ;)
        
             | greymalik wrote:
             | Or been to a concert in the last 10 years? Nothing but a
             | sea of phones.
        
               | paint wrote:
               | Then you're going to the wrong concerts. Lil Pump? Maybe.
               | (Not to say anything against hip hop as a genre, but i've
               | seen insta stories and as you say they're just seas of
               | phone screens in the crowd. Disgusting)
               | 
               | At good jazz or alt rock concerts people take their phone
               | out to take a few videos and pictures and then enjoy the
               | rest of the show. For the _really good_ concerts they
               | make you put a sticker on the camera of your phone.
        
             | quitit wrote:
             | I feel that's not a reasonable comparison, filming
             | something with a camera versus wearing a headset.
             | 
             | While I agree that holding up a phone in front of your face
             | presents some degree of being disconnected from the action,
             | I feel wearing a headset where one's entire view of the
             | scene is a computed feed via cameras is totally
             | disconnected.
             | 
             | So I do still agree that it wasn't a reasonable suggestion
             | that people would be filming important life events while
             | wearing their APV headset.
        
               | ptd wrote:
               | Just out of curiosity-how old are you? This pushback
               | reminds me of teachers trying to fight phones in the
               | classroom.
        
               | quitit wrote:
               | It's a human behaviour questions. So I don't feel my age
               | is relevant here, since I am not everyone.
               | 
               | If you think it's reasonable that a person is going to be
               | strapped into a headset at a child's birthday party, then
               | that is indicative of what you believe would be socially
               | normal or acceptable behaviour. I dare say other family
               | members or guests won't see it that way.
               | 
               | In my opinion the idea of any person walking around with
               | a headset on in social settings is not realistic.
               | 
               | There is a not subtle difference between picking up a
               | phone and filming something versus living an event where
               | the only visual stimulus one receives is a second hand
               | video feed. The discussion here seems to be pinned to an
               | idea that this is equivalent, I can say very confidently
               | that it is not.
               | 
               | Side note: I don't live in a bubble, I'm pretty
               | accustomed to watching the stage via other people's phone
               | screens when I don't have a direct view. I also film when
               | I have someone in mind to share it with. However the idea
               | that people are filming to use the footage is largely
               | wrong, they're excited and enjoying the moment and want
               | to capture that somehow, so out comes the phone, they
               | might show some of it to a friend later, but largely it's
               | unused and not looked back upon. This behaviour is not
               | comparable to wearing a headset.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | It's a software thing, so maybe they can just add it to iOS 17
         | and that's it.
        
           | jdminhbg wrote:
           | It's software plus cameras, they're stitching together video
           | from various focal lengths. I don't think the non-Pro Max
           | models will ever be able to do it.
        
             | atommclain wrote:
             | Rewatching the event video, it sounds recording spatial
             | videos is supported on both 15 Pro models (time stamp
             | ~1:17:30). I don't see anything on the compare iPhone
             | models page though: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | Yes, of course. I meant for iPhone 14 Pro. I wonder if they
             | will release the feature there as well or restrict it
             | artificially.
        
               | jdminhbg wrote:
               | The 15 Pro Max has more and more different cameras than
               | the 14 Pro does. I don't know whether it would actually
               | work or not.
        
         | cypress66 wrote:
         | I personally find stereo/3d video basically no more immersive
         | than regular video. I wouldn't bother putting a headset just
         | for that.
         | 
         | It needs to be like VR 360 video where you can look around to
         | be worth it.
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | Well I see Vision as just a secondary computing platform like
           | using an iPad. Something you throw on, on the couch after
           | work, and chill for an hour or two messing around, while
           | messaging people in the Vision (sending photos back/forth).
           | 
           | So basically you wouldn't _need_ to put it on to watch them
           | but you 'd regularly already have it on, instead of, say,
           | watching TV. VR googles for those videos aren't exactly a
           | hard requirement either if you're on the go.
           | 
           | If it stops being a novelty like "see this amazing experience
           | in VR" where you hype yourself up and put work on doing it
           | just for that - sure - it's not very amazing. But when it
           | comes normal and integrated into a computing platform you
           | already use daily it's definitely a plus.
        
         | dmix wrote:
         | Vacation photos and kids birthday memories are about to get way
         | more interesting.
         | 
         | What are the TikTok implications?
        
         | acid__ wrote:
         | Prediction: There will soon be a lot more VR "content"
         | available with the proliferation of VR-capable recording
         | devices.
         | 
         | This could be a big push towards making the metaverse more
         | compelling.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | The "metaverse" is as dead as 3D TV. It's not really coming
           | anytime soon.
        
             | HDThoreaun wrote:
             | I don't think so. The metaverse is the obvious endgame for
             | entertainment. The only question is how long it takes to
             | get there. Zero marginal cost everything is just a
             | continuation of what made software so succesful so I think
             | it should be clear to HN users why the idea behind the
             | metaverse is so powerful.
        
       | darklycan51 wrote:
       | "A huge leap forward for iPhone with a gorgeous new design"
       | 
       | What new design exactly? lol... UBC-C is nice but new design is a
       | stretch...
        
       | flippy_flops wrote:
       | I am absolutely baffled that Apple (and others) haven't updated
       | their smart assistants with a competitive LLM. With Apple's
       | privacy shtick and their mobile GPU efficiency, I was convinced
       | we'd see something today. What am I missing?
        
         | quantisan wrote:
         | Apple's own LLM and major Siri update is supposed to be coming
         | in iOS 18 next year. So says the rumour,
         | https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/06/ios-18-siri-improvement...
        
         | alwillis wrote:
         | There were zero rumors about LLM from Apple being announced
         | today. It wouldn't be the time and the place for such an
         | announcement.
         | 
         | Such a feature would be included with iOS 18 and that's not
         | going to be talked about until next June's WWDC 2024.
        
         | sircastor wrote:
         | LLMs can't guarantee factuality. They're great for the
         | conversational component, but they're a seriously bad and
         | responding with reliably factual information. More important
         | that its ability to deal with complexity would be an
         | assistant's ability to respond to a request correctly.
        
         | jameshart wrote:
         | When they talked about Siri on-device on Apple Watch 9 they
         | _briefly_ said Siri had a 'new transformer model' and talked
         | about improved dictation accuracy.
         | 
         | Honestly was half expecting more along those lines as part of
         | the new chip announcement for the iPhone 15 Pro, but apparently
         | not.
        
         | skepticATX wrote:
         | Reliability, probably? Apple is not going to allow for
         | hallucinations.
        
           | zukzuk wrote:
           | Siri in its current form is constantly "hallucinating" all
           | sorts of stuff as it is. "Hey Siri, turn off the lights in
           | the kitchen." -- "Sure, now playing a continuous stream of U2
           | on all of your speakers!"
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | LOL as an iPhone user whose only music on the phone is That
             | One Free U2 Album That We Never Wanted, I laughed too hard
             | at that one!
        
         | letwhile wrote:
         | Because they can't control it not talking extremist stuff, and
         | that would be used by media and normies for months
        
         | brap wrote:
         | I think the last thing people want is a voice assistant that
         | babbles on and on forever when asked a simple question.
         | 
         | I really hope that when they release something, the responses
         | will be 5% of the endless stream of words ChatGPT & others
         | produce.
        
           | flippy_flops wrote:
           | Agree - fwiw, I added "ChatGPT should keep answers brief and
           | direct." as part of my Custom instructions and it's a massive
           | improvement.
        
             | brap wrote:
             | I usually say things like "please be extremely succinct.
             | Response should be one sentence at most".
             | 
             | "Sure! I will try to be succinct.
             | 
             | [4 paragraphs]"
        
           | XTHK wrote:
           | I will remind you that most every parent and child both want
           | this, albeit for totally different reasons.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | LLM? Everyone has an LLM. They'll announce a PLM (personal
         | language model) in a year and act like they were first.
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | I think Apple missed the boat on LLMs and was surprised by the
         | success of ChatGPT.
         | 
         | They are no doubt working on an LLM-based Siri now, but they
         | don't rush things, and they don't preannounce things, so we'll
         | only hear about it once it is ready. And they are probably
         | going to use a different term for marketing it rather than
         | using a generic term like LLM.
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | Siri, now powered by Speech Synthesis Engine(tm).
        
             | 9dev wrote:
             | Not sexy enough. My money's on ,,Apple Voice"
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | I don't think they missed the boat, I think they recognize
           | that LLMs aren't Apple-ready yet.
           | 
           | They don't roll out half-baked products, and they won't be
           | comfortable placing the big disclaimers that ChatGPT relies
           | on. They'll incorporate LLMs if and when they can guarantee
           | that what Siri says will be consistently accurate and
           | extremely difficult to abuse.
        
             | jonplackett wrote:
             | Siri is the very definition of a half-baked product.
             | 
             | Perhaps even quarter baked. and has been sitting there in
             | the turned-off-oven for YEARS.
        
               | hbn wrote:
               | LLMs as they are now are not a drop-in replacement for
               | what people use voice assistants for.
               | 
               | If you ask it a question it doesn't know the answer to,
               | "I don't know" is better than making up a bullshit
               | answer. That could be potentially hazardous at iPhone
               | levels of scale, giving everyone easy access to what
               | appears to be a very intelligent AI chatbot without them
               | understanding that it shouldn't be relied on for a lot of
               | information people will ask it.
        
               | tornato7 wrote:
               | They would get an immediate benefit from using an LLM for
               | intent recognition - i.e. knowing that a user wants to
               | search or set a timer, etc. Current Siri is really bad at
               | this. I'm sure even a fine-tuned Llama 7B would be a
               | massive improvement over Siri.
        
               | dijit wrote:
               | Siri was actually once a better product than it is now.
               | 
               | Just like the apple keyboard on iPhones.
               | 
               | You're not imagining it; it is actually worse.
               | 
               | This is the first ever integration with iPhone after
               | acquisition, it never got better than this
               | https://youtu.be/SpGJNPShzRc?si=a5JgHgnK6Nf2p7BY
        
               | Aleklart wrote:
               | It is phone voice assistant and if you learn how to use
               | it, it works great as intended. The problem is when you
               | want too much interaction. ChatGPT can fake it, Siri -
               | cant.
        
               | filleokus wrote:
               | Agree that Siri isn't very good, and have been quite
               | stagnant. It was released in 2011, that's 12 years ago!?
               | Sure it's probably better now, but not 12 years of
               | development better?
               | 
               | But, at the same time. ChatGPT and the likes have a very
               | different failure mode, that feels even less Appley. Like
               | saying actual fake stuff, or saying it understand that
               | you want to turn the AC on when your son leaves school
               | coming home - but then just not doing it, or doing
               | something completely different. With current Siri the
               | failings are at least very obvious...
        
               | tornato7 wrote:
               | Anecdotally, I feel like Siri was usable to send text
               | messages and emails when it first came out. Now it
               | struggles to do even that.
        
             | ryaneager wrote:
             | I agree, a quote I heard from a former Apple employee from
             | the onboarding materials: "Apple doesn't do things first,
             | we do things right."
        
             | teh_hippo wrote:
             | They definitely missed the boat in my eyes. The speed at
             | which others have been able to produce meaningful
             | assistants with LLM is astonishing. Considering Apple also
             | have an approach where they announce and release in
             | November / early the following year, to have nothing
             | revealed seems like a missed opportunity to me.
        
             | davidktr wrote:
             | No half-baked products? Have you ever tried using the
             | translation feature in the book app? That is the most
             | infuriating, dumb piece of software I have seen in a long
             | time.
        
             | arrowsmith wrote:
             | > They don't roll out half-baked products
             | 
             | You must be really young if you don't remember when they
             | rolled out Apple Maps.
        
               | mackrevinack wrote:
               | there was nothing wrong with apple maps, you were just
               | holding it wrong
        
           | kemayo wrote:
           | Yeah, it seems plausible that they'll do it eventually, but
           | it'll be "the new improved Siri, powered by the Neural Engine
           | and transformer models".
        
             | basch wrote:
             | While trying to come up with an Apple buzzword I realized
             | we are not far away from Apple announcing Thought Control.
        
             | manmal wrote:
             | They better quadruple iPhone RAM for that.
        
           | dumpHero2 wrote:
           | Apple has consistently missed the boat on every major
           | technical advancement, when compared to android. But when
           | they do catch up, the quality is unmatched! Hoping the same
           | with LLMs. I am sure they're already working on it.
        
         | knodi123 wrote:
         | Siri has been less performant than OK Google for something like
         | 5 years, in my estimation.
        
         | seydor wrote:
         | it will be more profitable if they sell the Siri entry point to
         | the one who bothers to do the research , the same way they sell
         | the search box to google.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Not going to happen until Apple can fully control the bounds of
         | the output generated by the LLM (which no one is capable of
         | doing right now). A handful of instances of it
         | spouting...unfriendly stuff is enough to dent Apple's
         | reputation, and so they aren't going to take the risk.
        
         | vrnvu wrote:
         | There is a rumor that Apple is working on an "embedded"
         | "SiriGPT". Imagine "ChatGPT" but on device, no API calls, no
         | extra latency. And all apps on your device can use this
         | "SiriGPT" instantly to enrich the user experience.
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | You can set up a Siri Shortcut linked to chatgpt and fire away
         | your questions.
        
         | Aleklart wrote:
         | May be Apple care about privacy?
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | From rumours [1] it is being worked on.
         | 
         | Apple isn't the sort of company to rush something out just to
         | be competitive.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2023/09/06/apple-conversational-
         | ai...
        
         | justapassenger wrote:
         | It takes a while to roll out fundamental changes to things at
         | that scale.
        
       | fretting2 wrote:
       | Bummed at the lack of thunderbolt on the pro
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | The article reads like an ad.
        
         | sbuk wrote:
         | The 'article' is a press release on a vendor's site. Are you
         | expecting objectivity?
        
         | speedgoose wrote:
         | Press releases are a good way to advertise your products.
        
       | 0xDEF wrote:
       | I think there is a market for an Apple silicon competitor to the
       | Steam Deck and ROG Ally. Apple has proven that performance
       | doesn't have to come at the cost of battery life.
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | I'm usually excited and have been upgrading every year since 11
       | Pro Max.
       | 
       | This was the most boring, unimpressive iPhone event I've ever
       | seen in my life.
        
       | creativenolo wrote:
       | Hat tip to the designers for coming up with the idea of using
       | USB-C themselves then marketing the benefits /s
        
       | andreitp1 wrote:
       | Interesting that they allow shortcuts with the new Action button.
       | People will hook it up to ChatGPT and replace Siri for general
       | purpose Q&A.
        
       | ukd1 wrote:
       | Removing the mute switch for the action button is a step
       | backwards; if I upgrade I'd not be able to feel in my pocket that
       | my phone is on mute.
        
         | annexrichmond wrote:
         | Wow, this is something I do _all_ the time as well.
        
         | doctoboggan wrote:
         | They claimed a different haptic feedback for on vs off, so if
         | that's true you will be able to tell the mode you've toggled
         | into by feel.
        
           | ukd1 wrote:
           | Ya - better that purely visual I guess - yet I'd need to
           | toggle it to tell, unlike now
        
           | dilap wrote:
           | Current switch you can feel just be position -- don't need to
           | toggle. You can also tell just by visual inspection.
           | 
           | "Action button" feels like a gimmick, and I agree, backwards
           | for usability.
        
       | monological wrote:
       | I feel like this is an epic joke. Except the joke is on all the
       | suckers paying $1k for essentially the same phone, but wow, now
       | with a usb-c port. Please Tim Apple...take my money faster. Even
       | better, please strap it to my head so I can be even more
       | disconnected from other people.
        
         | phoenk wrote:
         | I plan on buying one, and I have a 3 year old android phone. I
         | would have upgraded sooner, but I basically wanted an iphone 14
         | but with USB C so I don't have to get new cables. Now I can get
         | that.
        
         | jkubicek wrote:
         | How many people are actually paying $1k for "essentially the
         | same phone"?
         | 
         | I'm upgrading from a 3 year old iPhone, so everything here is
         | pretty exciting for me.
        
           | sph wrote:
           | I have a 4 year old phone and I don't see anything worth
           | upgrading. USB-C, yay! But I already have a Lightning cable
           | at home, is that worth hundreds of dollars?
        
           | monological wrote:
           | Do you really need to upgrade your 3 year old iPhone if you
           | think about it? Those are still quite fast and can do
           | everything you need. To me it seems like a waste, but you do
           | you.
        
             | jkubicek wrote:
             | Even upgrading from last years phone would be worth it for
             | the ability to record spacial video. I want to start
             | capturing 3D vids as soon as I possibly can.
        
       | KolmogorovComp wrote:
       | Do we have a ball-park of how much is spent on each iPhone
       | iteration? A billion USD?
        
         | killjoywashere wrote:
         | Like, on the R&D of the iPhone? Wouldn't be surprised if it was
         | a $1B, honestly, I suspect that's a bit low.
        
       | artursapek wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | htk wrote:
       | The only big limitation of the Lightning connection for me was
       | video output (limited resolution and compressed signal). I hope
       | the USB-C on the 15 Pro gets rid of this limitation.
        
       | brundolf wrote:
       | Some people are probably sad about the mute switch, which is
       | understandable, but I for one am really excited about the action
       | button
        
       | padjo wrote:
       | The main thing they talk about is a back glass that I will
       | immediately hide by putting it in a case because I cannot hold on
       | to such slippery devices.
        
       | MangoCoffee wrote:
       | I don't see anything exciting about the iphone 15.
        
       | grej wrote:
       | Still no TouchID. Boooo!
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | * USB-C
       | 
       | * Nice camera upgrade on the pro (for people who really care
       | about the focal length/etc)
       | 
       | * Satellite roadside assist in US
       | 
       | * Spatial video looks great. Even if I can't play it back yet, I
       | can begin recording things with it _now_ to render it in the
       | future. I think that 's big.
       | 
       | * Custom button vs. vibrate toggle: As long as the haptic
       | feedback distinguishes between vibrate and ringer and silent,
       | then it is suitable. I just need to know what setting it's on
       | while it's in my pocket.
        
         | mholm wrote:
         | Camera upgrade is only for the Pro Max. Looks like the 15 Pro
         | has the same camera system as the 14 Pro
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | Looking at the pro page on their site, the only diff between
           | pro and promax on the camera is the 5x telephoto.
        
       | bobsmith432 wrote:
       | Where's the removable battery? Is that not coming until next
       | iPhone? What about third-party app stores? Love to see their
       | walled garden come crashing down.
        
         | notesinthefield wrote:
         | When were these things ever more than pie-in-the-sky solutions
         | to litigation? this is apple we're talking about, the EU had to
         | threaten to axe them from a third of the world if they didnt
         | comply with USB-C laws.
        
           | bobsmith432 wrote:
           | As far as I know, laws exist because there are people in the
           | world who are so clueless or twisted they need to be
           | prevented from doing blatantly stupid things that harm others
           | by force, and apparently Apple is so stupid they can't just
           | play fair and respect your right to repair (take it to us so
           | we can overcharge you, you damn well aint fixin it yourself
           | or else youll break it you idiot lol!!!!), or right to own
           | one charger for all your technology (please invest in our
           | outdated charging standard that only made sense back when our
           | competitors used those god-awful micro USB cables with the
           | two teeth of death), or your right to own the headphones
           | you'd like (buy our $150 wireless earbuds that are even more
           | difficult to repair than our phones because headphones that
           | didn't need batteries and were powered by two wires that
           | worked on anything made after the 80's were ACTUALLY
           | polluting the Earth, you could technically use those if you
           | buy our overpriced adapter, but you're literally polluting
           | the planet you psycho!). Their excuses for doing these things
           | make no sense, and either go back to greenwashing, planned
           | obsolescence or walled garden locking.
           | 
           | I don't blame folks for buying Apple, the software is great
           | I'm sure (I personally hate it, but I use Windows XP with the
           | classic theme and oldschool WinAmp almost every day so to
           | each their own) and I respect the people who enjoy it, but
           | everybody needs to play by the rules, and when Apple is
           | clearly not with their hardware, f*cking people over and
           | lying about it, maybe we do need laws to keep them in check,
           | because Timmy Apple isn't making me buy an iPhone for my
           | whole family because they won't implement RCS.
        
         | GoToRO wrote:
         | Apple: make me!
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Removable batteries will only become mandatory in 2027 (in the
         | EU).
         | 
         | The law about third-party app stores will become effective in
         | spring 2024. According to rumors, Apple will limit it to EU
         | customers though.
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | Does anyone have any clue how long I have to wait for a
       | replaceable battery? IIRC the EU has made it happen that tech
       | giants need to conform to this.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | The batteries are replaceable. If you are talking about having
         | a second battery that you can lug around for when you need it,
         | there are battery cases for this.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Etheryte wrote:
           | When people say replaceable battery they don't mean that a
           | trained technician with specialty tools is able to replace
           | the battery.
        
         | dmt0 wrote:
         | 2027 apparently
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | > A huge leap forward for iPhone with a gorgeous new design
       | 
       | I do like iPhone, I actually have a personal one and work provide
       | me with one too, I like their security aspects. But can how can
       | they say with a straigh face this is a new design ?
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | Many people claim they are a few inches taller and 30lbs
         | lighter than they are with a straight face all the time.
         | 
         | Claiming a device has a new design when it actually has a few
         | different design elements does not seem like too much of a
         | stretch, for an advertisement.
        
           | n8cpdx wrote:
           | I like to set the bar for trillion-dollar corporations a bit
           | higher than Grindr catfish.
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Higher than changing the internals? Changing the silence
             | toggle to a button? Changing the material of the body?
             | 
             | If you do not expect marketing departments to call that a
             | new design, you simply will not be happy with what pretty
             | much every other business does and will do.
             | 
             | https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-just-made-the-
             | iphone-15-...
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | > Claiming a device a new design when it actually has a few
           | different design elements does not seem like too much of a
           | stretch, for an advertisement
           | 
           | I don't personally see the new design. This is Apple, king of
           | "design" and the designers/creatives go to company (for good
           | reason) but this is not a new design. This is a, moderate at
           | best, alteration. I'm also not saying it has been a bad
           | design, it's just not new, even for them.
           | 
           | Maybe it's the advertising world that is tilting me more and
           | more in my later years.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | And "a huge leap" isn't true just because they repeat it 6(!)
         | times on the page.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | If they don't, an entire team of designers may lose their jobs.
         | It has to be new or refreshing, otherwise what's the point of
         | buying a new one?
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | This reminds me of a (maybe bad taste) joke about how UI & UX
           | was perfected a few years back but designers had to keep
           | creating huge Medium articles on their font and logo
           | creations that curved a few pixels from the original.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I'll go a step further and say that pretty much every phone for
         | the last 5-10 years looks indistinguishable to me. And most
         | people just buy cases.
        
         | bilekas wrote:
         | > For the first time in a smartphone, color is infused
         | throughout the back glass, creating five beautiful colors
         | 
         | Which will stay in a protective cover/case for it's life forbid
         | you need to repair a crack.
        
           | gnopgnip wrote:
           | The iphone 14 non pro addressed that problem, presumably the
           | 15 non pro will as well. It is cheap to replace, they have a
           | DIY kit
        
       | Coryodaniel wrote:
       | Staying with my mini! These phones are too damn big!
        
       | mark_l_watson wrote:
       | I was not going to get a new iPhone since I really like the size
       | and shape of my iPhone 11 Pro. However, if the 15's usb-c
       | interface will drive my Apple Studio Pro XDR monitor, then sold!
        
       | dbg31415 wrote:
       | I hate the non-live presentations. Just hate them.
       | 
       | Who thought adding all the filters and special effects was cool?
       | 
       | It just makes it feel cheap. And my god, the people talking don't
       | sound like people at all.
        
       | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
       | USB-C - check, 2x optical zoom - check, 2.5k+ pix screen - check.
       | So, basically, Galaxy S10 plus?
        
       | NotYourLawyer wrote:
       | There sure are a lot of comments here about USB2. I can't imagine
       | anyone actually giving a shit about it though. Wifi, Bluetooth,
       | airdrop, etc. are all perfectly fine. What are you people
       | plugging your phone in for other than just charging?
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | And 90% in our office have never plugged their iPhone in for
         | charging, using MagSafe stands instead.
        
           | NotYourLawyer wrote:
           | MagSafe stands are convenient, but a good USB-C charger is
           | waaaay faster when you're in a hurry.
        
       | nonane wrote:
       | It also has a built-in AV1 Decoder! This is the first time Apple
       | has indicated they're going to start using AV1!
        
       | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
       | I can only say this: finally, a type-C port.
        
         | bjoli wrote:
         | I wonder if we could ever hope for it to get a 3.5mm port. I am
         | rocking a pixel 5a with a broken screen, but I haven't found a
         | good update yet. An iPhone with an audio jack would make me
         | leave android in 10 seconds.
        
           | jcrash wrote:
           | I felt the same way, until I got an iPhone without it. It's
           | truly unnecessary in 2023. If you really need a headphone
           | jack, the adapters work great.
           | 
           | Otherwise, AirPods are 100x better than wired.
        
           | quitit wrote:
           | Because I hear this less and less, your comment does stand
           | out - what really piques my curiosity. Could you share your
           | primary motivation for wanting an analogue audio jack? Like
           | you do you have some great old headphones, or is there some
           | other compelling reasons that I don't know about? No reason
           | is silly, it's just something I'm really curious about
           | because I come from the other side where I moved to wireless
           | long before the jack was removed.
        
             | FrankoDelMar wrote:
             | Not OP, but I used to use a decent pair of wired, in-ear
             | headphones with the male Lightning to female 3.5mm adaptor
             | since I found wireless headphone quality during that time
             | to be subpar up until the airpod pros came out. I still had
             | a lot of issues with this configuration however as the
             | adapter was flimsy and would break frequently, and since
             | the DAC was now placed in the adapter itself, the audio
             | quality was noticeably worse than in the previous 3.5mm
             | models. But even with good bluetooth headphones, bluetooth
             | just doesn't have enough bandwidth to listen to music at
             | high fidelity.
        
         | happytiger wrote:
         | They got dragged kicking and screaming to this solution by
         | European regulators. Glad it's finally done, but good Lord that
         | was too long coming.
        
           | quitit wrote:
           | While the EU is a factor, the EU's mandatory ruling came too
           | late to affect this product. In term's of iPhone release
           | schedules only the iPhone 17 would fall into needing
           | mandatory USB-C.
           | 
           | The USB-3 controller is in the A17 chip and not a separate
           | component, considering the lead time for chip design and
           | production it seems Apple had the transition in mind for
           | quite a bit longer than the recent legislation changes in EU
           | parliament.
           | 
           | As a timeline: the EU Parliament only proposed making USB-C
           | mandatory in September 2021, and then only formally approved
           | it in October 2022, prior to that it was just the EU's
           | serving suggestion. Enforcement only begins on new product
           | introductions from the latest October 2024, Apple release
           | their Phones in September, meaning both the iPhone 15 and 16
           | could realistically still use lightning without infringement.
           | 
           | However now that Apple has introduced USB-C EU member states
           | can safely fast track the law without affecting their
           | economies (despite certain HN fantasies, forcing a major
           | phone supplier out of the market for lolz is not good for a
           | country.)
        
           | isykt wrote:
           | You think Apple was dragged kicking and screaming into being
           | able to sell the same accessories they have already developed
           | but with a different connector?
           | 
           | Once the EU signaled they were going to mandate this, there
           | was no reason to do it any sooner. When Apple changed from
           | 30-pin, there was an uproar. "Now my iPod Alarm Clock doesn't
           | work with my new iPhone!"
           | 
           | Now gets it both ways: more sales, no blame. "The EU made us
           | do it..."
        
           | dmt0 wrote:
           | And now they're presenting it as an upgrade.
        
       | stephencoyner wrote:
       | I was waiting for "one more thing" to show a new LLM powered
       | Siri. I am disappointed
        
         | tomashertus wrote:
         | Siri needs complete revamp. I almost never find her answers and
         | capabilities useful :(
        
         | jcrash wrote:
         | Same. Siri is slightly better on ios17 but still isn't as good
         | as it could be if it used an LLM
        
         | gorbypark wrote:
         | Didn't they announce something of the sorts for the watch? I
         | don't think it's a full on LLM but basic things are now using
         | the on device Neural Engine instead of making a connection to
         | the cloud.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | LLMs are only one niche of Machine Learning, which Apple is
         | utilizing heavily for audio transcription, search, image and
         | video classification, image2text, video-to-3D-model, on-device
         | search, photography and videography improvements, and more.
        
         | luxuryballs wrote:
         | disappointed but not surprised, even (the infamous /s) chatGPT
         | isn't even half-way to Apple quality standards yet and Apple
         | still has to make it useful, not just clever or impressive
        
         | mholm wrote:
         | That sounds like more of a software feature that we'd see in a
         | WWDC. I'd expect we'll need to wait till June 2024 to see
         | SiriGPT.
        
       | Flatcircle wrote:
       | I wonder if you'll be able to connect a harddrive to the phone
       | via USB-C and send all your photos to your harddrive. (even if
       | the process took a Mac to help facilitate) That'd be the best
       | feature as people have all so many photos and at this point they
       | have to live on the cloud. But whether they admit it or not, the
       | cloud can be buggy and it's very common to lose photos or videos
       | if that's the only place they live.
        
         | phoenk wrote:
         | Looks like this is supported:
         | https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/external-storage-devi...
        
       | DrNosferatu wrote:
       | The EU should mandate the increase of compulsory warranty from 2
       | to 5 years.
       | 
       | It would help reduce both sweatshops and e-waste.
        
       | roge7331 wrote:
       | Jep, its a black rectangle
        
       | charles_f wrote:
       | > A huge leap forward for iPhone
       | 
       | Marginal improvement presented as huge leap forward. If only
       | words had to mean something
       | 
       | > with a gorgeous new design featuring a durable, color-infused
       | back glass
       | 
       | Didn't the iPhone 2 have a back glass? What's durable about a
       | back glass, aluminium doesn't break.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | nowooski wrote:
       | It's pretty wild that Apple has held prices down the last few
       | years in the face of elevated inflation. I decided to calculate
       | the inflation-adjusted price of every iPhone ever, and the 15
       | line are some of the most affordable (in 2023 dollars).
       | 
       | Full table and charts are here:
       | https://www.perfectrec.com/posts/iPhone15-price
       | 
       | But the take aways are: - iPhone 15 is cheapest base model since
       | the OG iPhone in 2007 - 15 Plus is cheapest large iPhone ever -
       | 15 Pro is cheapest pro ever (and $250 cheaper than the first Pro
       | model, the iPhone X).
        
         | Synaesthesia wrote:
         | For people in the US yes, overseas they are famously
         | overpriced. Here in South Africa the cost of an iPhone is
         | ridiculous.
        
           | TimCTRL wrote:
           | You could buy a 50x100 plot of land here in East Africa
        
             | spiderice wrote:
             | Using that logic literally everything in America is
             | overpriced.
             | 
             | Turns out different places have different costs of living.
        
             | rootusrootus wrote:
             | 50x100 in what units? There are lots of plots in the US
             | that you can buy for under $1000/acre.
        
         | sosodev wrote:
         | Right? Considering USB-C and the fact that they moved most of
         | the pro features into the base model it seems like a great time
         | to upgrade from an older model.
        
         | faeriechangling wrote:
         | The iPhone is improving less and less generationally and faces
         | stiff competition. Regarding the regular iPhone, I haven't seen
         | Apple be this far back in display tech in such an expensive
         | product since 2017 when the MacBook Air was still using a
         | 1440x900 display.
         | 
         | The pricing of the 15 pro is pretty remarkable to me
         | considering apple is paying for titanium and 3nm silicon this
         | time around. It's also interesting how Apple has knocked down
         | the price of the Pro and SE models every generation.
        
         | seizethecheese wrote:
         | The phones are officially loss leaders for the service
         | businesses.
        
           | fdsafdsa32va wrote:
           | nope, the phones are very profitable.
        
             | seizethecheese wrote:
             | Yep, I meant this in spirit, not literally, but looks like
             | I was wrong even in spirit:
             | 
             | https://sixcolors.com/post/2023/02/apple-results-and-
             | charts-...
        
           | paint wrote:
           | Apple phones are a lot more expensive than android phones of
           | similar specs
        
           | dev_tty01 wrote:
           | Not true. Apple is super disciplined about profit margins.
           | Each business has to be sustainable on its own and each
           | product sells with a hefty margin or is doesn't make the cut.
        
         | legulere wrote:
         | Another perspective is that apple managed to keep prices more
         | or less at the same level, while it has become more and more a
         | medium-range product: there's not even the current chip anymore
         | and only USB2.0
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | The cost of inputs has gone down. What has happened to the cost
         | of storage and RAM (both commodities, I assume) over the last
         | several years? They're still shipping "Pro" iPhones -- that
         | cost as much as a computer -- with 128GB. That's one way to
         | keep costs down, and to goose the demand for Apple's iCloud
         | backup service.
        
           | jbc1 wrote:
           | With Apple's margins I doubt they're using a cost plus
           | pricing model.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | I wasn't assuming that either. I was just pointing out that
             | I'm not impressed that their prices haven't gone up in an
             | inflationary period, since some of the inputs for these
             | devices have gone down in price (presumably by a lot).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | SeanAnderson wrote:
         | Hah. Hi Wally! Or, rather, I assume this is him.
         | 
         | I found myself reading your post, then was like, "Oh hey I know
         | someone who came to this conclusion already... oh shit, they're
         | linking to PerfectRec? Oh shit, I think it's Wally on HN!"
         | 
         | Hope you are well :)
        
           | goldenjm wrote:
           | Hi Sean! Nice to see you here! :)
        
             | SeanAnderson wrote:
             | Hey Joe! :D The whole gang is here, apparently!
        
           | nowooski wrote:
           | Hey Sean! Hope all is well. Glad the take was at least
           | memorable enough you did a double take. :-)
        
       | jmkni wrote:
       | Gutted that the iPhone mini is essentially dead. I don't want a
       | phone any bigger.
       | 
       | I'll hang onto my 13 Mini for as long as I can, hopefully they
       | will update the SE to basically be the new Mini.
        
         | CephalopodMD wrote:
         | Three most baffling thing about it is I see this comment in
         | almost every iphone thread. I know so many people irl who have
         | the same opinion including myself.
         | 
         | If there are any Apple execs in this thread: please listen to
         | your customers! We are screaming for a flagship mini!
        
           | ndiddy wrote:
           | Given the continued poor sales of the mini phones, it seems
           | like only a vocal minority wants them.
        
             | sph wrote:
             | They had to cut the Mini line because it was bankrupting
             | the company. It's not like Apple can afford to have a
             | product that only sells a few hundred thousands units a
             | year, are you kidding?
        
           | cromka wrote:
           | They are listening to their sales numbers and the numbers say
           | that customers are, in fact, not interested in Mini.
        
             | lastofthemojito wrote:
             | I'm on Team Mini as well, but I can see why Apple canned
             | it: https://www.macrumors.com/2022/04/21/iphone-13-mini-
             | unpopula...
        
               | jacobp100 wrote:
               | The SE also doesn't do amazingly. The markup on the mini
               | must have been way higher though. Its a shame
        
             | CephalopodMD wrote:
             | I'd argue the opposite! The segment is a minority, but the
             | need within that segment is strong. It is not a 1 size fits
             | all product, and 2-3% of your customer base might leave if
             | a competitor fulfills that need. For your main revenue
             | generator, that's not insignificant. See the Prego pasta
             | sauce story https://www.enablemarketing.ie/can-business-
             | learn-spaghetti-...
        
               | accrual wrote:
               | > The segment is a minority, but the need within that
               | segment is strong.
               | 
               | The only issue I see with this argument is that it
               | doesn't matter to Corp if a small minority _really_ wants
               | Thing, it only matters if selling Thing makes more money
               | than not selling Thing.
        
               | alsodumb wrote:
               | Assuming that there is a fixed cost associated with the
               | mini production line, and assuming they sales and service
               | based revenue from mini users isn't a lot, it doesn't
               | make financial sense to have the mini line.
               | 
               | Also, where exactly are the users gonna go? The smallest
               | is probably one of those Samsung foldable ones. But
               | you're really underestimating how bad android ecosystem
               | can be (this is coming from someone who's been hardcore
               | android fan until recently). Maybe I'm getting older, but
               | I really like the part where a lot of things with apple
               | just work.
        
             | mackrevinack wrote:
             | most manufacturers gimp their smaller phones so its not
             | surprising that the larger versions sell more
        
             | underbluewaters wrote:
             | I think the problem is that the same people who care a lot
             | about their phone's form factor also care about features.
             | We need an iPhone Mini _Pro_ with high end cameras. I 'm
             | not going to settle for so-so pics of my toddler.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Apple _is_ listening to its customers - by way of sales data
           | rather than a few comments on a niche techy forum.
        
           | sircastor wrote:
           | Unfortunately, there aren't enough of us to merit it. The 12
           | mini was a trial balloon for how well a smaller sized phone
           | would sell, and people didn't show up for it. On the plus
           | side (no pun intended), it looks like the yearly increase in
           | average phone sizes has halted.
           | 
           | It's worth nothing that there are practical costs for a
           | smaller phone: You can't fit as much battery into a smaller
           | package, but people want to use a smaller phone the same way
           | they'd use a larger phone.
        
         | baby wrote:
         | This ^ my hand are hurting due to the iPhone 12 pro max. I want
         | a folding phone now.
        
         | dgellow wrote:
         | Still using an SE 2016 because it has the perfect size and
         | still works fine. I would happily buy a new version if it would
         | come with usb C and have a similar size, but I don't hold my
         | breath. Small phones don't seem that popular :(
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | The 2016 SE was "peak iPhone" for me. Still has a headphone
           | jack. Has a lightning connector (albeit, like you, I'd prefer
           | USB-C). The size is wonderful. (I cannot understand the
           | obsession with gigantic phones.)
        
             | hot_gril wrote:
             | Years later and I still miss the jack and small screen. RIP
             | my iPhone 5, AT&T dropped service for it.
        
           | accrual wrote:
           | I loved my SE 2016 and used it from launch to the SE 2020.
           | Are you worried about patches at all?
        
             | throwaway019254 wrote:
             | Apple just released update for SE 2016. I wouldn't worry.
        
         | dools wrote:
         | I bought a 12 mini and a 13 mini for this reason
        
         | teh_hippo wrote:
         | 100% agree. I have a 12 mini and love it.
        
         | sircastor wrote:
         | I've got a 12 mini and I'm disappointed that they wholly
         | discontinued the line. Unfortunately those of us who preferred
         | smaller phones were apparently in the minority.
        
         | chickenpotpie wrote:
         | The small phone in general seems dead. Android phones don't
         | even have good small options anymore.
         | 
         | I'm hoping that folding phones are here to save the day in a
         | "the king is dead long live the king moment" as screens have
         | become so big, they're now overflowing to being small again.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | Writing this on an iPhone mini. It's the best form factor for
         | me. I don't want to lug an iPad mini everywhere, and that's
         | what big phones feel like to me.
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | There was a time for a year or so that I carried an actual
           | cellular-enabled iPad Mini in my front right pocket instead
           | of an iPhone. I had to stop because it has no SMS app for the
           | SIM card (or vibrate motor, or ability to host an Apple
           | Watch) so I ended up carrying an iPhone as well alongside.
           | 
           | Then the XL or Pro Max or whatever (huge phablet) came out
           | and I used that for a while. The added battery life is
           | lovely.
           | 
           | I finally settled on the non-max Pro, because it is as large
           | as you can go and still be operable with one hand. The Pro
           | Max is a two-hands-always device. If I'm going to do that I
           | might as well carry an iPad Mini.
        
         | whichdan wrote:
         | I'm really bummed there isn't a Mini - I'd be happy with
         | getting one every third generation, even. For the size of my
         | hands, the center-of-gravity is too high in the 6.1" phones, so
         | I can't comfortably hold it with one hand.
        
         | appleiigs wrote:
         | If I could buy up-to-date iPhone mini, I'd actually buy an iPad
         | too. The phones are so large now I don't need an iPad.
        
         | ajmurmann wrote:
         | I liked the size of the Mini, but wanted all the features of
         | the Pro which likely won't fit. So I bought the Pro instead and
         | thus am the problem.
        
           | laweijfmvo wrote:
           | I was hoping they'd use the smaller bezels and newer
           | materials to make the 13 Pro smaller with the same screen
           | size, but they did the opposite (bigger screen, same physical
           | dimension). Wouldn't have been mini sized, but anything to
           | reduce size would be nice.
        
       | Equivalent70 wrote:
       | I had heard somewhere that the first batch of a new electronics
       | product (like the iPhone 15 if you pre-order right now) is more
       | likely to have manufacturing defects and other subtle issues. So
       | it is best to wait a few months to buy a new product.
       | 
       | Does anyone know if this is true? If so, how long is optimal to
       | wait to have the highest probability of all the kinks being
       | worked out? Like when should I buy the iPhone 15?
        
         | mrlambchop wrote:
         | I don't think this is true these days and especially not true
         | of this phone release.
         | 
         | IIRC, Apple will have made somewhere close to 20k phones before
         | getting anywhere close to mass production and as the ID didn't
         | change that much, the risk is pretty low on there being a long
         | term material issue.
         | 
         | If the ID changes next year (just going off manufacturing
         | rumors), I might wait a little, but this year seems like no
         | risk.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | If you live anywhere near an Apple Store, there's not a great
         | incentive to wait. Everyone seems to have their pet story of
         | that one time Apple didn't replace a thing they thought should
         | be replaced, but generally the in-store employees will swap out
         | a defective device without hassle.
        
       | Klasiaster wrote:
       | Didn't know that the phone was limited to USB 2.0 transfer
       | before... kind of ridiculous for the high price.
        
       | rcarr wrote:
       | I wasn't going to go Pro but between the borked USB port on the
       | regular models and the better cameras and native Resident Evil on
       | the Pros, I think they got me. Their fucking marketing department
       | is too powerful.
        
         | jonplackett wrote:
         | Dude just get last year's phone or keep your current one.
         | 
         | There's nothing new here.
         | 
         | Keep your money.
        
           | rcarr wrote:
           | I have an iPhone 8 Plus with a cracked screen that is about
           | to reach EOL with updates. I'm updating.
        
       | dahwolf wrote:
       | The entire announcement is an exercise in masking that they're
       | running out of ideas.
       | 
       | Excessive lectures on environmental footprint. Lots of
       | cultural/humanitarian story telling, a pile of non-relatable tech
       | info where they only briefly showed the embarrassing "up to 10%
       | faster", dull/static presenters with their fake excitement.
       | 
       | Even the Pro model, typically the only model where they might add
       | some actual features of any significance just to seduce you to
       | pay more, is now nothing more than an "extra bling" model.
       | 
       | No fresh new demos of 3rd party developers either. All of this
       | shows the maturity and advanced state of the platform.
       | 
       | Here's an idea that would actually impress all of us regarding
       | environmentalism: user-replaceable batteries. As simple as it was
       | 15 years ago. And no, I'm not interested in tech apologies about
       | glue or there not being space. There's space. It's purely a
       | matter of will.
        
         | blackhaz wrote:
         | In addition to replaceable battery, which is great, I'd do the
         | following:
         | 
         | - Remove all excessive animations from the UI. Please stop
         | wasting my battery and my brain cycles on nothing. iPhone 1 to
         | 4 had sufficient level of animation. iOS 16 level of animation
         | is nauseating.
         | 
         | - Make the phone to fit into a human hand. No need for a
         | shovel.
         | 
         | - Non-slippery material. (I'm currently on X and it's like
         | holding a half-used bar of soap in the shower.)
         | 
         | - Remove excessive gestures, corner sliders, pop-ups, etc. The
         | UI is a mess. Simplify everything. Less is better.
         | 
         | - Redo all the UI elements. This mess of excessively saturated
         | flat shapes is dull. Initiate return to skeuomorphism, but at a
         | slightly different angle. Especially get rid of oversaturation
         | everywhere.
         | 
         | - Increase contrast of UI elements.
         | 
         | - More detailed report on processes consuming system resources,
         | something like a Task Monitor.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | isatty wrote:
         | I'll take the better water resistance/proofing/reduced
         | engineering cost from not having user replaceable batteries any
         | day.
         | 
         | Had to replace an iPhone battery exactly once over the last 3-4
         | years and it was done for free with applecare, in and out in 30
         | mins.
        
           | extr0pian wrote:
           | Regarding "better water resistance", there have been a ton of
           | phones released in the past that have had water resistance
           | standards of at least IP 67 and that had a user replaceable
           | battery. That part of your argument doesn't hold water.
        
           | jh00ker wrote:
           | >better water resistance/proofing/reduced engineering cost
           | 
           | This is a myth. Look at the Samsung Galaxy S5 (IP67) & Sony
           | XP10 (IP68). (Yeah, I'm a big Louis Rossmann fan; I learned
           | this from his videos.)
           | 
           | Even if it were true, are you telling me Apple couldn't
           | engineer a solution to the problem and turn it into a key
           | marketing element boasting their innovation?
        
           | sam345 wrote:
           | And paid how much for Applecare over the 3-4 years?
        
           | Modified3019 wrote:
           | There is a technology called "rubber o-rings" that has
           | allowed for waterproof/resistant user replaceable battery
           | designs in cell phones since they came out.
        
           | atyppo wrote:
           | My iPhone's battery health has been stuck at 83% for nearly
           | 15 months. It was only 9 months old (purchased brand new)
           | when it reached 83%. Apple will not replace with Applecare
           | unless it is below 80%. Something doesn't add up there.
        
             | dahwolf wrote:
             | Let me guess...fast charging?
             | 
             | Don't do it. Ruins batteries.
        
           | prennert wrote:
           | Waterproofing in terms of actually being able to use the
           | phone under water or not breaking when it falls into water
           | (i.e. it will switch itself off when submerged and after it
           | dried it will work again)?
        
             | gibolt wrote:
             | I had an Android phone from Motorola (that cost $10) that
             | could be fully submerged. The seal mechanism was bulky and
             | the phone was hot garbage.
             | 
             | For me, battery life for days in airplane mode is good
             | enough if it means never worrying about liquid
        
           | slipshady wrote:
           | > free with applecare
           | 
           | So about $200 depending on what model you have then? I pay
           | for AppleCare+ for my iPhone 11 (mostly because I like not
           | using a case) and it's not free.
        
           | noitpmeder wrote:
           | Don't you pay a subscription for applecare? So not exacty
           | free
        
           | tiborsaas wrote:
           | Quartz wristwatches have replaceable batteries since their
           | invention and waterproofing the is not really an issue.
           | 
           | > free with applecare
           | 
           | That's true in your case, but if someone buys a used model
           | then they might prefer to do it at home especially because of
           | budget issues.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | It wasn't "simple" 15 years ago if you wanted water resistance.
         | 
         | And before you trot out the Samsung phones, if you didn't put
         | the battery in securely (and it warned you on the screen) you
         | lost water resistance. It also required a rubber flap to be
         | closed on the headphone jack.
        
           | sudosysgen wrote:
           | It took literally 7 seconds to put in the cover correctly,
           | and if you got the warning all you had to do was press on a
           | bit more.
           | 
           | The Galaxy S5 Neo did not have any flaps over the ports.
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | And out of the 130 million phones that Apple sells a year,
             | what are the chances that you think someone will do it
             | wrong, a connector will break, etc and you will hear sone
             | more hysteria about it or another *gate?
             | 
             | And what could possibly go wrong after a couple of years
             | with this design?
             | 
             | https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-mini-
             | review
             | 
             | > The plastic battery door still has a rubbery seal on the
             | inside, so you'll want to make sure it's securely snapped
             | on each time you replace it. (And yes, the phone still
             | reminds you to do this each time you start it up.)
        
         | sytelus wrote:
         | There is NO dirth of ideas. I was hoping for duel screen, full
         | satellite communication, 48hr battery, 3D audio/video/photos
         | etc. These are the things that are very challenging to get
         | right and I think only Apple can make it happen in a way to
         | make mainstream. But nothing came through.
        
           | astrange wrote:
           | There are "3D photos" exposed through apps like Polycam. The
           | model building is an OS framework though.
        
           | gpt5 wrote:
           | They allow bi-directional satellite communication with rescue
           | team, 29 hours of continuous video playback, just announced
           | 3d photos coming later this year.
           | 
           | Sounds like they are pretty close to what you are hoping for.
        
         | jjoonathan wrote:
         | "What losers, they didn't even change the world this year!"
         | 
         | That's unkind. The forward extrapolation is unkind _and_
         | untrue: Generative Siri and AR are clearly in the pipeline. You
         | can see the infrastructure if you look.
         | 
         | It may be worth forcing replaceable batteries with legislation,
         | but I'm inclined to wait until after AR settles to do it, since
         | executing on AR will involve pushing the limits of what's
         | possible with battery/display/compute tech.
         | 
         | Remember those memes of people looking down at phones and
         | running into telephone poles / glass / wet concrete? Those will
         | come back once there's a good alternative.
        
           | dbbk wrote:
           | No one says that they have to release new phones every 12
           | months though.
        
             | qup wrote:
             | It's a hedge against the degrading performance of software.
             | There's definitely some feeling of "your phone can only be
             | so old before it functions incredibly slowly", no matter
             | how it feels at launch.
        
             | spiderice wrote:
             | But why shouldn't they? Incremental upgrades are great for
             | both Apple and the consumer as long as Apple supports their
             | old hardware (which they do better than just about anyone)
        
           | yunohn wrote:
           | > Generative Siri and AR are clearly in the pipeline. You can
           | see the infrastructure if you look.
           | 
           | You mean the M1 chip on iPad Pros wasn't enough, but the A17
           | Pro on the new iPhone 15 pro is the "infrastructure" for
           | better Siri? But wait, they're not announcing that yet, so
           | maybe we need the A18?
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | > Generative Siri
           | 
           | LLM's that are actually good are about a year old now. I'm
           | surprised that wasn't enough time for them to get them into
           | Siri.
        
           | hypeit wrote:
           | > _That 's unkind._
           | 
           | Apple has a 2.75 _trillion_ dollar market cap. You don 't
           | need to feel sorry for them. At their valuation and multiple
           | they better damn well be delivering the most amazing stuff
           | you've ever seen on a regular basis.
        
           | dahwolf wrote:
           | I guess I deserved that. I will agree that iPhones are
           | incredible and that we're a spoiled bunch. But still from a
           | iteration point of view, this one was historically
           | underwhelming.
           | 
           | Which might indeed mean some longer running projects weren't
           | ready yet and the next edition is better. I think generative
           | AI is coming.
           | 
           | I guess what I'm looking for is purpose and meaning.
           | 
           | "Titanium is harder" Well, so what? I don't use my phone as a
           | hammer.
           | 
           | "We made up a name for a core and added more of them" Yes?
           | And what does that do? Will this enable new software? Or just
           | run it slightly faster? And whilst that is a good thing, if
           | everything is near-instant already, what does that bring?
        
         | spacecadet wrote:
         | I once met an Apple engineer at the first iphone centric WWDC,
         | they told me... in quotes, but not a quote- "the products that
         | wow people are the ones that steve uses himself, if steve
         | doesnt us it, its shows"
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rnk wrote:
         | You don't think usb-c is a bold and incredible new enhancement
         | to the iPhone?
        
         | jmyeet wrote:
         | "Running out of ideas" isn't how I'd characterize it.
         | 
         | I'd put it this way: the device (ie a phone) is now a fully-
         | developed mature product and platform. It browses the Web, runs
         | apps, takes photos/video and plays music/video.
         | 
         | Phones pursued the largest possible screen, first by removing
         | the home button (which, to this day, I still hate and I find
         | gesture replacements to be inferior and inconsistent eg swiping
         | up depends on orientation) and then with the "notch". We lost
         | Touch ID (which I vastly prefer) for Face ID, which is pretty
         | much the sole cause of "iPhone is unavailable for 27 minutes"
         | when the phone sits in your pocket. There are lots of threads
         | all over the Internet about this.
         | 
         | So what Apple (and Samsung) now do is fight commodification,
         | which will lower prices. Forced obsolescence, phones the only
         | really last 2-4 years, incremental component upgrades, sleek
         | materials and a moat of app availability (ie Android vs iOS).
         | 
         | There's really no reason a fully-featured phone should still
         | cost $1000+.
        
         | dmix wrote:
         | Nothing wrong with that, it's a mature platform. Features for
         | features sake isn't very interesting either. Besides maybe the
         | price I'm happy with small refinements, as I dont need a new
         | phone every year, my iPhone 14 Pro is 100% as useful as it was
         | last year and is extremely rugged, I'm sure it will last
         | another year+ absent a bad accident.
         | 
         | A slightly faster CPU+slightly better battery+slightly better
         | screen(?)+better camera is all I really care about.
         | 
         | Not like any of us are having performance issues with the last
         | few models for 99%+ of use-cases. Software is extremely stable
         | too.
        
         | tomcar288 wrote:
         | its not that they're running out of ideas. It's just as good as
         | it can ever get, period. I mean the paper clip came out 100
         | years ago and you don't see 15 versions of that. Every device
         | reaches a point after which it's way more than good enough.
         | 
         | personally, I'd only like to see them get cheaper and maybe
         | longer product life ( i hate replacing everything after just 7
         | or 8 years).
        
           | adventured wrote:
           | It is strange to see that sentiment on HN, given the context:
           | this is what commonly happens to mainstream tech.
           | 
           | The desktop PC has been in that boring mode for 15 years or
           | more now. With small, incremental improvements, if you're
           | lucky.
           | 
           | DDR5 instead of DDR4. A 4tb HD instead of a 1tb HD. A faster
           | SSD. A 25% faster processor. etc
        
             | tomcar288 wrote:
             | personally, i'd like to see big tech get into new areas
             | that actually matter. It only takes a quick look at
             | maslow's hiearchy of needs to get good ideas: take a look
             | at that lowest tier (shelter, food, water, medical), that's
             | where over 60% of consumer spending goes in a developed
             | country, considerably more for the latest generation (now
             | in their 20s). And in poor countries, the lowest tier is
             | like 99% of their spending.
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | At some point every product category become functionally
         | feature complete.
         | 
         | The price increase signs to me that they expect people to
         | upgrade less often.
        
         | sharts wrote:
         | What can one expect when the majority of people that are
         | employed by a particular company share the same values?
         | 
         | How can there be any innovation with group think and a small
         | minority of decision makers insulated in their bubbles from the
         | rest of the world and simultaneously need the share price to
         | stay stable?
        
         | toddmorey wrote:
         | Let's hope more companies to run out of ideas and put the focus
         | on environmental impact.
        
         | Phurist wrote:
         | Not fair I think... in a world where most companies produce
         | profits without a single care for the world we live in, I
         | welcome a company like Apple that has shown a path to a better
         | future in some areas. They still have a long way to go I
         | think... but advancements like that are also advancements.
        
         | deveac wrote:
         | 1. ability to begin capturing 3d video for the devices of
         | tomorrow to render is a sea change. I want as much as my video
         | as possible to be captured this way, starting today. Can't
         | reshoot the past
         | 
         | 2. dedicated hardware button for programatic software execution
         | is fantastic
         | 
         | 3. wearable turning your fingers into a button allowing
         | execution from simply moving your fingers is insanely cool
         | 
         | These three things alone are more exciting than anything I've
         | seen in a while. All in all, great ideas that are absolutely
         | pushing the envelope of how we interact with these devices.
         | Love to see it.
        
           | motoboi wrote:
           | I'm sorry, man. This is Stockholm Syndrome.
           | 
           | The 3d capture and the wearable finger thing could have been
           | a software update.
           | 
           | The dedicated button is just bollocks. You lose the visual
           | indicator of silence, which was a great thing.
        
             | deveac wrote:
             | I'll take one click activation of any software script
             | humans can dream up and string together via shortcuts.
             | 
             | You can keep that reminder of whether you muted your phone.
             | 
             | :)
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | It's not just the lack of ideas, but the direction they are
         | taking their existing ideas in is just not interesting anymore.
         | 
         | One thing I'm kind of having a mini midlife-crisis over is that
         | I'm slowly realizing that I am no longer the target market for
         | tech products. I didn't see anything... anything today that
         | resonated with me. Aren't marketing materials supposed to do
         | that?
         | 
         | It's all about things I don't care about, like the camera. Oh
         | boy, more megapixels. Yawn. I don't really even use my phone's
         | camera that much. Dynamic Island notifications? I turn all
         | notifications off to avoid distractions. Display brightness?
         | I'm constantly turning it down because it blinds me at night.
         | Gaming? I have an old Playstation 3 and a nice size TV for
         | that. Carbon neutral? Unpopular opinion but that doesn't even
         | rate as a top-10 driver of my purchasing. As you say, give me a
         | replaceable battery!
         | 
         | The marketing all depicts people 20 years younger than me
         | horsing around taking selfies, people who, I suppose, care
         | about things I don't. I didn't even recognize any of the music.
         | I'm a boring, frugal, old white guy, who uses his phone as a
         | tool, not as a lifestyle, and my wallet is apparently not
         | interesting to Apple. Sad to be left behind.
        
           | s3p wrote:
           | The cameras seem to have the same number of megapixels. Maybe
           | you, as a frugal old white guy, would appreciate having USB-C
           | and no longer having to pay for the proprietary Lightning
           | connector.
        
           | mettamage wrote:
           | > It's all about things I don't care about, like the camera.
           | Oh boy, more megapixels.
           | 
           | Ok, it's the same 48. I'm not in the market either, but I
           | would be if I'd be single. I currently have an iPhone 12. To
           | get the newest 48 pixel camera would help me make killer
           | photos for my Tinder profile that I just couldn't do that
           | well with an iPhone 12. I think I'd see a 10 to 20%
           | improvement in Tinder matches.
           | 
           | It doesn't matter whether that's true or not. I know that's
           | how I'd feel if I'd be single.
           | 
           | I'm happy I'm not single, lol. Given that I'm in a
           | relationship, I don't feel the need to shoot the sharpest
           | pictures so I can have an edge on Tinder. However, I can
           | imagine there are many social media savvy people that would
           | feel that way.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | I think I'm in a same demographic (maybe not old, but not
           | young), and... I have no idea what Apple couple possibly add
           | to their phones that _would_ interest me.
           | 
           | Like, please, no more resolution or LIDAR on the front facing
           | camera, it might start picking up wrinkles.
        
           | pocketarc wrote:
           | It's just the routine of it. It's been 15 years of "better
           | than last year". It's hard to be excited about that for so
           | long. It's just a slightly better phone. And that's OK.
        
           | madeofpalk wrote:
           | > The marketing all depicts people 20 years younger than me
           | horsing around taking selfies, people who, I suppose, care
           | about things I don't. I didn't even recognize any of the
           | music. I'm a boring, frugal, old white guy, who uses his
           | phone as a tool, not as a lifestyle, and my wallet is
           | apparently not interesting to Apple. Sad to be left behind.
           | 
           | Today a company announced a marginally better product to
           | remain competitive with it's competitors. When you need to
           | buy a new phone, Apple is hoping that they've made the n+1
           | (or the n, or n-1) version that you will prefer to buy.
           | 
           | You haven't been "left behind" because a company made an ad
           | with young people in it.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | > _Oh boy, more megapixels. Yawn._
           | 
           | There aren't any even any more megapixels this year. It's the
           | same 48 as last year.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | It's okay to just not care. "My phone/pocket computer is good
           | enough" is a nice place to be.
        
           | wayfinder wrote:
           | OK but you changed, not Apple. Apple was leaving behind older
           | people when you were young, so I don't see why everyone is
           | entitled to be part of a product's target market.
           | 
           | Some of us do still appreciate these improvements. I greatly
           | appreciate a better camera for example. I actually don't know
           | if the 15 has as an appreciable improvement but the 14's
           | camera is still a far cry from the quality of a professional
           | camera in every situation but a un-zoomed shot in moderately
           | bright daylight lighting. There is still major work to be
           | done.
           | 
           | Do you need a high quality camera? No. The movie Tangerine
           | was shot on an iPhone for example... but visually, it does
           | not look fantastic. Some people don't care about image
           | quality but for the people that notice and care, they
           | appreciate it.
        
             | saurik wrote:
             | Do you feel like the changes Apple is making to the camera
             | are improving the camera along the axes you care about?
        
               | wayfinder wrote:
               | I went from the 10 to 14 and that was a massive
               | improvement. Highlights (the brightest areas on a scene
               | with both very dark and very bright spots) were massively
               | overblown on the 10.
               | 
               | It's much better on the 14, for example, although you can
               | still tell the parts that would have been overblown
               | previously, especially with HDR mode on, and I don't love
               | it -- but at least you can still see some detail now.
               | 
               | Was 12 to 14 an improvement? Don't know - didn't have a
               | 12.
               | 
               | Is the 15 improved from the 14? Until I get my hands on
               | it, I couldn't say. It's just a lot of marketing right
               | now.
        
           | dahwolf wrote:
           | Same, I'm a middle-of-the-road user. I piggy back on the
           | better hardware once every 3-4 years but haven't noticed a
           | meaningful difference in my total experience since the iPhone
           | 6s. Almost every new iOS feature is also entirely lost on me.
           | I recently even needed to Google how to fully shutdown my
           | phone. If there's any growing value, it would be in apps.
           | There's an app for everything.
           | 
           | Nothing wrong with any of this. Most products in my home are
           | no longer exciting.
        
           | whynotminot wrote:
           | Brother, what would actually excite you other than the
           | replaceable battery? You game on a PS3. You're self
           | admittedly boringly frugal. At this point, frankly it's not
           | just Apple that isn't marketing to you -- _no one is going to
           | market to you_ except maybe Depends in a few more years.
           | Companies make products for people who spend money.
           | 
           | This is not Apple's problem.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Wow, that Depends comments cuts to the bone, LOL oh my!
             | Well done..
             | 
             | I guess what I'm looking for is a "Wow, that improvement is
             | significant enough that, this time, early-adopting will
             | make a huge difference" announcement. I remember around
             | 2011 when hard drive prices-per-gigabyte took a huge drop
             | to the point where what you got for your money was
             | astoundingly better than what you could get a year earlier.
             | I haven't bought a hard drive since then. Yes, prices have
             | continued to go down, but the slope is not what it used to
             | be. I'm still on a computer from 2014 because that was the
             | last major increase (in my judgment) in what you got for
             | your money. CPUs and GPUs are getting better, but only
             | incrementally so. I typically look for those inflection
             | points/discontinuities to make a tech purchase.
             | 
             | For example, if a phone manufacturer suddenly came out with
             | a huge sci-fi level leap in battery technology, where,
             | maybe paired with a stripped down OS I could get a week of
             | battery life... That would be exciting. Or, if the phone's
             | hardware and OS suddenly became powerful enough to plug in
             | as a true desktop replacement and run desktop applications
             | natively, where I could actually throw away my desktop
             | workstation, that would be pretty awesome.
        
         | poulsbohemian wrote:
         | Thanks for this. I just bought a Watch Ultra two weeks ago, so
         | wondered if I had missed out not waiting for this announcement.
         | I can't see that the Ultra 2 offers anything new. Battery life,
         | form factor, feature set - I'm at a loss to identify anything
         | meaningful that has even _changed_ let alone improved.
        
       | mtillman wrote:
       | Apple, I don't want a giant phone that I have to carry in my
       | hands. Make another mini version that costs less than $2k and you
       | can have my money. I already have an iPad or several laptops that
       | I can do "big" things on.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | totallywrong wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | ant6n wrote:
       | Yes but what about the m3 Macbook?
        
       | lawlessone wrote:
       | I think metal cases are overrated. The longest lasting phones I
       | have had have always been plastic. I drop things a lot and the
       | plastic one's just tend to break in ways that don't stop the
       | phone working.
       | 
       | Of course plastic has it's own issues with recycling and heat
       | removal etc.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I'm honestly pretty excited for the Apple world to learn how hard
       | pocket lint is to get out of a USB-C port.
        
         | ericpauley wrote:
         | Not hard at all? USB-C has been consistently simpler for me and
         | I'm far less worried about damaging pins.
         | 
         | Pro tip: cut a pointed pick out of the corner of an old credit
         | card. Works great.
        
           | donatj wrote:
           | Having had both Android and iPhone, I just used a toothpick
           | on my iPhone and it never took more than a couple seconds. I
           | find myself picking my Pixel 6 with a very fine sewing needle
           | for like 15 minutes before my cable will seat properly.
        
         | robocat wrote:
         | Use wireless charging?
        
         | codeflo wrote:
         | Harder than getting it out of a lightning port? Because that's
         | not too easy either.
        
           | donatj wrote:
           | Much. Most of the USB-C port is full rather than empty making
           | it hard to get anything other than a very thin sewing needle
           | in there.
           | 
           | A toothpick is way too thick to fit which seems like an
           | oversight.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 93po wrote:
       | Frustrated I just got AirPods 6 weeks ago with lightning. Would
       | have been amazing to be entirely USB C for the first time ever
       | with my next iPhone purchase. But that's probably a couple years
       | off, maybe my airpods will be dead by then
        
       | skymast wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related ongoing threads:
       | 
       |  _Apple iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485271
       | 
       |  _Apple ditches the Lightning connector in favor of USB-C after
       | 11 years_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37484897
       | 
       | (Before the announcement) _iPhone 15's shift to USB-C_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37480508
        
       | laacz wrote:
       | The thing I enjoyed during the presentation was the original
       | iphone on the table in the left side of the screen just before
       | Sribalan Santhanam started to talk about the ray tracing.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | 0xakhil wrote:
       | I think the omission of usb3 is because of the reuse the Apple
       | silicon from last year which doesn't have the builtin usb3 IP.
       | Let's wait for next year's non-pro models to see if they are
       | really cheapening out.
        
       | alainv wrote:
       | Are all the display options using PWM now? I've been staying with
       | the XR because the XS caused headaches for me. Curious if they've
       | gotten their frequency up to a bearable level.
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | Pro is 120Hz
        
       | gdubs wrote:
       | Sad at the cynical comments here regarding Apple's environmental
       | commitments. Does Apple have a tendency to exaggerate? Sure. But
       | this is also the most ambitious set of climate-related
       | adaptations I've heard from a corporation at their scale, and it
       | seems to be deeper than just marketing fluff.
       | 
       | How can we expect to change things if even meaningful moves to
       | make improvements are automatically cynically dismissed?
        
         | Wingman4l7 wrote:
         | For anyone who works in electronics refurbishing or recycling,
         | it rings extremely hollow as corporate greenwashing, because
         | Apple devices are notoriously and increasingly hard to repair,
         | and getting impossible to reuse due to software interlocks. The
         | best way to be environmentally sound is to prevent the
         | scrapping of already-manufactured devices, and Apple
         | steadfastly stands in the way of this, because a robust used
         | device market would hurt their profit margins.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | People get burned by the "carbon neutral" bullshit that
         | corporation heralded for so long (this time it's "high quality"
         | credits...perhaps it's actually good, but who knows ? they're
         | still showing forests).
         | 
         | And aside from recycling, this whole effort was about
         | "investing in renewable energy projects around the world", so
         | another kind of throwing money at someone who might or might
         | not do something with it. Won't matter to Apple's green
         | message.
         | 
         | Now recycling efforts are nothing to sneeze at and are
         | commandable. Ambitious ? I don't know.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | JoshGlazebrook wrote:
       | They sure are out of ideas.
        
         | jamiedumont wrote:
         | Small (anec)data point, but I got invited last week by my local
         | Apple Store to attend the event there and upgrade on the day.
         | Never had that happen before, and have a history (that Apple
         | surely knows) of buying 6 months after launch and then holding
         | for 4-7 years.
         | 
         | I get the impression -- admittedly having not watched the event
         | -- that Apple feel the need to work hard and drum up interest
         | for this release.
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | I think the entire industry is. Many aspects have reached their
         | peaks, more isn't always better, phone screens for example. CPU
         | performance hasn't improved as fast as previously either.
         | Things are faster and going to get even faster, but not in
         | massive leaps.
         | 
         | I imagine they are or will start trickling "new" features. Be
         | it USB3/4, Thunderbolt, WiFi 7 (or higher bandwidth light or
         | UWB standards). Just because the other races aren't offering
         | much besides better numbers.
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | Phones are a finished product line and have been for a while.
         | 
         | Apart from incremental bumps there isn't anything you can add
         | that will move the needle.
         | 
         | The next battle now moves onto AR/VR.
        
       | willhackett wrote:
       | Was that it?
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sfinae26 wrote:
       | iPhone 15 is ~21% costlier in India (by nominal value) compared
       | to the US, while iPhone 15 Pro is at whopping ~63%.
        
       | anonymouse008 wrote:
       | Spatial Video in _this_ generation says everything. They want to
       | win Spatial  / VR with the ecosystem - it's truly the only way:
       | AppleTV (Spatial Content Specific?), iPhone 15, M(x) Processors
       | for creating / editing.
       | 
       | Apple is ready, but I still don't think people want to wear
       | something on their face. That said, I've put myself in timeout
       | over Apple Watch - still wrist naked, but it's inarguable that
       | it's a successful product line.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | A few years ago, Apple and Google were in a battle to dominate
         | the AR space and made heavy investments (ARKit and ARCore) that
         | I think have paid close to zero dividends. I'm not sure if any
         | of that work is carrying over this spatial push, but I don't
         | see Google following suit. I think it could be neat, but the
         | addressable market is going to be tiny.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | QuadrupleA wrote:
       | Call me a curmudgeon, but nothing in the last decade or so of
       | smartphone development has sparked the least bit of interest or
       | excitement for me, this included. Battery life maybe? Seems like
       | a matured product category. Which is fine - maybe we just leave
       | them alone and last as long as possible. Or keep churning about
       | notch vs no notch, smallish vs. largeish vs. smallish again, etc.
        
         | mettamage wrote:
         | The original iPhone SE to the iPhone 12 mini was quite the
         | upgrade for me to be honest.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | Any low-end Android phone is more than capable enough for 99%
         | of daily use for less than half the price and you can get
         | things like extended battery and, of course, USB-C charging.
         | And yet Apple keeps eating into Android's market share. Apple
         | owns their market on the strength of their marketing.
        
         | GordonS wrote:
         | I have a 4 year old Xiaomi phone, which had excellent specs at
         | the time of purchase. Now, phones with more impressive
         | benchmark scores and cameras exist... but I'm not into gaming
         | on my phone, and somehow the battery is still great, so it
         | still does everything I need.
         | 
         | I just don't see a compelling reason to upgrade.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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