[HN Gopher] The MacBook Air M2 is so good it's given Apple a pro...
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The MacBook Air M2 is so good it's given Apple a problem
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 36 points
Date : 2023-09-11 14:55 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.techradar.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.techradar.com)
| kanwisher wrote:
| LLMs (large language models) running locally in privacy are the
| next killer app. Mac Studio can already run 180b models that
| compete with Gpt-3.5, 2-3 more generations and MacBook airs will
| be able to run locally. Apple is already deploying smaller LLMs
| to macOS. This will drive the next hardware cycle
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| I don't know of any 180B models that outperform gpt-3.5,
| including Falcon (according to benchmarks).
|
| There are fine-tuned 70B models have higher benchmark scores
| than gpt-3.5, and when quantized they can run on a 64GB
| Macbook.
|
| https://huggingface.co/spaces/HuggingFaceH4/open_llm_leaderb...
|
| https://huggingface.co/spaces/gsaivinay/open_llm_leaderboard
| [deleted]
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| Note that quantization has serious impact on the models
| capabilities.
| comboy wrote:
| > Apple is already deploying smaller LLMs to macOS
|
| hm?
| oceanplexian wrote:
| I don't know about macOS but they are supposedly including a
| local, transformer-based language model for autocorrect in
| iOS 17
| Spartan-S63 wrote:
| Their improvements to the keyboard auto-correction features
| is coming to their new software as an on-device LLM.
| Basically, it looks like they're improving the neural engines
| on their chips, over time, to start running more LLMs on-
| device to ensure user data privacy.
| smoldesu wrote:
| It's nice, but my Skylake laptop from 2016 also has pretty good
| llama.cpp acceleration. It might not drive the next hardware
| cycle as much as memory and storage constraints will.
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| I'd love to see a handheld game console with a M2/M3
|
| Apple being stubborn missed an opportunity to work with Nintendo
| for their Switch 2
|
| There are rumors about Apple working on a console, so maybe
| that'll happen some day
|
| Game Porting Toolkit is a hint
|
| https://developer.apple.com/games/
| rcarr wrote:
| I figured Game Porting Toolkit was more aimed at the Vision Pro
| and Vision Air (I'm guessing this is what the cheaper version
| is going to be called). Immersive experiences are going to be a
| big part of selling the Vision Pro, and the gaming industry is
| now bigger than the music and movie industry combined and only
| growing. People are going to want one headset that does
| everything because not a lot of people have the money to drop
| on a Vision Pro + Oculus or Vive.
| kanwisher wrote:
| It's called an iPad and it already has an M1. My son and all
| his friends almost exclusively game on iPads. So the next
| generation will be more used to touch screens then game
| controllers
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| That's very out of touch
|
| That's exactly why I bought a Nintendo Switch and not an
| iPad, and the reason why I'm excited about the Switch 2 (and
| I'm not alone in my circle, including the youngest
| generation)
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| You're kidding, right? Nintendo Switch has sold about 130
| million units, over 6 years. Apple ships about 60 million
| iPads per year, for all use cases, but from 2017-2019 it was
| hovering around 45 million. 2018 was a really bad year at
| about 33 million.
|
| So, we're currently at about 283 million iPads sold since the
| Switch launch, missing 2023 - so maybe more like 310-320
| million, for all uses cases which go far beyond gaming. 130
| million Nintendo Switches. Pretty reasonable to say they are
| pretty even.
|
| Except, of course, they aren't even in the high-quality, paid
| games market where the revenue on iOS is a joke. How many
| games does iOS have that are paid, don't have IAPs, timers,
| or Loot Boxes? How many support local multiplayer on the same
| device? Switch has got hundreds, if not thousands; iOS has...
| name five.
| lacker wrote:
| Purely anecdotal, but Minecraft alone takes more of my
| kids' friends' gaming time than all Switch games combined.
| "Local multiplayer on the same device" - well, that isn't
| how the kids play. They all bring their ipads.
|
| I think it's confusing to look at yearly sales because so
| many of the children already have ipads. You don't need a
| very new ipad to run Minecraft.
| emodendroket wrote:
| Everything on Apple Arcade fits your criteria.
| jamesgeck0 wrote:
| Apple Arcade raises the bar significantly on mobile, but
| it pales in comparison to the first party offerings for
| any dedicated game console. It's got a lot of good indie
| games, but is missing anything comparable to flagship
| console-selling titles like Zelda, or Starfield, or
| Spider-Man. Even portable devices from previous console
| generations had more compelling libraries in many
| regards.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Well sure, that's about the only place, if you don't mind
| the subscription.
|
| The flip side though is that so many Apple Arcade titles
| are also available on Switch. Even ones that Apple showed
| in their presentations. You can also actually buy them
| without a subscription.
| skyyler wrote:
| Even Nintendo's own offerings show that purchasing is on
| the way out.
|
| The a la carte virtual console has given way for paid
| subscription access to curated collections of games. You
| can't buy retro games on the switch the way you could on
| the Wii and Wii U.
| emodendroket wrote:
| Game Pass also seems like the first step down this road
| for a more "core audience" and Sony has one foot in and
| one foot out with their PS+ strategy, while we're at it.
| emodendroket wrote:
| They're adding a ton of stuff all the time. I'm not
| saying that traditional game consoles won't continue to
| be around but isn't mobile already larger both in terms
| of players and revenue? We're artificially handicapping
| the numbers by considering only tablets and not smart
| phones in this comparison.
| surge wrote:
| The switch and the Steam Deck are effectively a tablet
| hybrid form factor (both are portable and have touch
| screens), just with the controller integrated or come
| packaged standard. Docking stations are something tablets
| handle fine too, Switch and Steam Deck just have that
| mode of operation as a forethought.
|
| All that to say, you can argue consoles in some cases are
| moving more in the direction of tablets and phones to
| capture that wider market.
| emodendroket wrote:
| That they feel the need to do that and that you can no
| longer really have a handheld game system with its own
| dedicated library of games (something else those both
| have in common) doesn't really suggest the idea that
| mobile gaming is nipping at the heels of traditional
| gaming is wrong.
| SirHound wrote:
| It doesn't though. There is no game of the calibre of
| TOTK, Mario Odyessy etc on iOS and there never will be.
| emodendroket wrote:
| The criteria given was "How many games does iOS have that
| are paid, don't have IAPs, timers, or Loot Boxes?" and
| not your subjective evaluation of how good the games are.
| mcphage wrote:
| > and there never will be
|
| There could be, but it's not an Apple priority. Maybe one
| day it will be--who knows.
| JamilD wrote:
| I think out of all companies, Apple has generally been the best
| (though not perfect) at maintaining focus even when a product is
| "good enough".
|
| I felt the same about the early MacBook Airs too, and my iPads.
| Reaching a local optimum is not necessarily a bad thing.
|
| My brother still uses my 2012 original retina MBP, and it works
| fine. For most people, upgrading every 4 or 5 years is more than
| enough for any Mac.
| nolok wrote:
| To be entirely fair, this is not just a macbook think and
| mostly a computer thing.
|
| My 4 years old work windows laptop is a dell xp13 with an
| i7-8something cpu and is more than enough for anyone who was ok
| with that laptop when it came out.
|
| Which is not to say the m2 isn't awesome, but since bazillion
| core cpu and nvme drives became commonplace there isn't much
| beside very heavy usage (gaming, ia, ... anything that require
| a top level gpu) that can stop an "old" computer, even a
| laptop.
| soylentcola wrote:
| That's what I've found as well. Only bothered to update my
| 10yo computer during 2020 work from home because I wanted to
| play around with some new stuff, had a bit of disposable
| income since I wasn't going anywhere, and it had been long
| enough that the performance jump would be nice in
| games/playing with graphics rendering stuff.
|
| But I easily could've kept using it for another several years
| for all but the most demanding software and it was an
| i7-3770k/16gb/GTX980/various SSDs/HDDs.
|
| Still, I understand that the form factor meant that
| portability wasn't an issue. The difference between a 10yo
| laptop and a modern one would've been much, much more
| noticeable.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| They must have made like 90% of the models they sent out to
| retailers 256gb/8gb. This is frankly ridiculous as it's not a
| model I can recommend even on sale. I know they have their
| reasons, icloud, etc. but what a bad situation it creates for the
| consumer.
| supernova87a wrote:
| I wonder if Apple have the ability to unlock storage that they
| secretly left on the chip and just had disabled in order to
| sell lower tier models? And more flexibly repurpose them to
| higher storage if that's selling better?
|
| I'm guessing not (it's already wrapped in the box) and I
| imagine it can't be accessed by software alone. Like, blown
| fuses.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| no but the chips can be swapped out.. by a real electronics
| pro https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/06/m1-mac-ram-and-ssd-
| upgr...
| r00fus wrote:
| My extended family has 5 M1 Air (base model) laptops and
| they're absolutely great and are way more powerful than they
| need. I only hear the occasional compliment, and no complaints.
|
| The storage is expandable externally, and the RAM is actually
| quite usable even on heavy loads.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| the m1 is plenty powerful. not doubting that. my issue is the
| storage.
|
| the storage is not expandable actually. 256 is pathetic
| unless you only have cloud based workflows (which is what
| apple wants obvious for that reoccuring revenue).
| BackBlast wrote:
| > The storage is expandable externally
|
| I have tried a variety of methods of expanding the storage. I
| bought an M1 system with this very thought.
|
| None of the USB storage devices I tried worked well. MacOS
| drops every device I tried periodically. Sometimes it would
| go as long as a week, but I'd have to yank it and plug it
| back in for it to continue to work. Very unreliable for a
| permanent storage augmentation.
|
| NFS doesn't work, MacOS issues. Samba has been the most
| reliable network storage drive method, but it tends to be
| slow on my middling servers - and I really tried to optimize
| it.
|
| If you really want to do this, I suggest trying the
| thunderbolt route.
| smoldesu wrote:
| My extended family bought an SUV instead of a minivan a few
| months ago. No complaints from them either, but I won't
| pretend it's a perfect car.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| same manufacturer issue there too lol. like the toyota
| highlander and toyota sienna share the same factory but you
| can't find a sienna anywhere and a highlander can be found
| at dealers.
| r00fus wrote:
| I think my point was that the commenter above mine
| complained that Apple pre-produced 90% of the base model.
| Fact is, 90% of people don't need any more than 256GB local
| storage or 8GB ram, so I think the distribution ratio is
| fine.
|
| disclaimer: Sienna owner.
| olyjohn wrote:
| Sounds like they don't know what they're missing with the
| minivan.
| thangngoc89 wrote:
| I was skeptical when decided to go for an MBA M2 but right now
| I'm absolutely love it. Being able to just pick the laptop up,
| walk elsewhere because of it's extremely lightweight. Charge once
| every night at home and don't have to worry about battery at all.
| Note: I have a beefy server for compiling and AI training so the
| laptop is just a remote controller.
| smoldesu wrote:
| > The first is the extra graphics power of the M2 chip in the
| 13-inch MacBook Air - providing you go for the 10-core GPU only
| available in the 512GB model.
|
| > Despite being a laptop that's light enough to pick up with two
| fingers, the MacBook Air M2 can run the likes of Total War:
| Warhammer 3, a game that can make my slightly long-in-the-tooth
| gaming PC splutter.
|
| For reference, the $400 Steam Deck also runs it just fine:
| https://youtu.be/OhkVjcFGEAQ
|
| The article hits a nail on the head here, but this feels more
| like a broader industry problem. "Where do we go next" is also
| the current problem that AMD and Nvidia are both facing too. If
| Intel wasn't working on improving their fabs and services, they'd
| probably be in the same boat.
|
| We now have so much compute power on-the-go that we struggle to
| use it all properly. It's a good problem to have! For my money,
| the "final frontier" is more capable software.
| ipqk wrote:
| But wait, everyone keeps telling me that Apple cripples their
| products after a couple years forcing you to buy their latest
| version.
| whynotmaybe wrote:
| Apple says it.
|
| "The company also says its power management update - introduced
| in 2017 to manage demands on older batteries or with a low
| level of charge - only reduced an iPhone 6's performance by an
| average of 10%."
|
| https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-fights-2-bln-london...
| mcintyre1994 wrote:
| There are many Apple devices that are good arguments against
| that claim, but the barely over a year old M2 Air isn't one.
| nicole_express wrote:
| The big change I'd like to see in the MacBook Air line is the
| return of the 11" option; I realize that's too small for a lot of
| people but for me it was the perfect carry-everywhere form factor
| for a laptop. (Of course, I also found the iPhone mini line
| perfect-sized and that got dropped, so I'm probably an outlier)
| Fezzik wrote:
| This is me, still clinging to my 2015 11" Air. My biggest gripe
| is I miss the screen ratio. 16:9 is so much more aesthetically
| pleasing and functional to me than the 16:10 ratio of the new
| models. That 1 unit makes a world of difference to me.
| dalyons wrote:
| the 11" had quite a large bezel - with its thin bezel the m2
| 13" is actually very close to the same size.
|
| 2012 mba 11: 300 x 192 (11.8 x 7.56 inches)
|
| 2023 mba m2: 304 x 215 (11.97 x 8.46 inches)
|
| ~ same width, and only ~2cm deeper for a much bigger screen.
| Its very much worth it imho.
| uuddlrlrbaba wrote:
| That's interesting. After trying a 13" macbook myself, I sized
| back up to a 16" and personally wont be going back.
|
| There is only a marginal difference in my backpack, I don't
| really notice it. But every time I was using the smaller device
| I was getting annoyed with the small screen and cramped
| keyboard/trackpad setup.
| pjot wrote:
| Is the keyboard/trackpad on 16" not the same size as on the
| 13"?
| cassianoleal wrote:
| Keyboard, yes. Trackpad, no. I prefer the smaller trackpad
| on the smaller laptops. Too much false touching on the
| larger ones.
| mnky9800n wrote:
| Why does it need to go anywhere at all?
| melling wrote:
| "My hope is that Apple doesn't try to hurry out, say, a MacBook
| Air M3"
|
| Seriously? Drop an M3 in there as soon as it's ready.
|
| Also, Apple still sells 8GB machines with a $200 upgrade to 16GB.
|
| Moore's Law might be dead but we shouldn't go down without a
| fight.
| slaymaker1907 wrote:
| According to Newegg, you can buy a 16GB RAM kit for $32
| *total*. A $200 upgrade should be getting you 64GB+ and base
| models should really have a minimum of 16GB.
| wombat-man wrote:
| Memory in apple silicon chips is in the unified chip. It's
| not just adding another stick of ram.
|
| But yes, how Apple prices upgrades is a little irritating in
| light of other options.
| stetrain wrote:
| Closer to $60 for top spec DDR5 5600MHz
|
| Apple uses LPDDR5 6400MHz
|
| They're definitely still making extravagant margins on their
| upgrades.
|
| They do seem to be moving to multiples of twelve for their
| newer machines. M2 supports 8/16/24. M3 Pro is rumored to
| support up to 48GB.
|
| My hope is that an M3 MacBook Air would start at 12GB with
| 24GB optional. M3 Pro could be 24/48, M3 Max 48/96, etc.
| soperj wrote:
| I upgraded my ram from 4gb to 16gb in 2012 and it cost me $100
| off of newegg and all of 10 seconds to install. $200 is crazy.
| paulmd wrote:
| Great deal. How much did it cost to get it stacked on the
| package?
|
| Everyone was crying out for this a few years ago from AMD,
| give us an APU with HBM or something! But because it's from
| the Fruit Brand they now have to invent reasons to hate it.
| dangus wrote:
| Not a lot of useful insight in this article, but it does make me
| want to remind all of you that if you want MacBook Air,
| especially the 15" version, consider the 14" MacBook Pro.
|
| The price gap looks big, but it's actually not.
|
| If you consider the upgrade to 16GB or RAM and 512GB of storage,
| you're already at $1500 for the 13" model or $1700 for the 15"
| model.
|
| $1999 gets you the 14" MacBook Pro with 16GB/512GB standard,
| where you a get better screen, microphone, speakers, processor,
| graphics, thermal performance, I/O including HDMI port and dual
| external screen support.
|
| You sacrifice a little weight and thickness but not much else,
| and the difference in a backpack (especially with the 15" Air) is
| minimal.
|
| And here's the other thing: you can just pick up the M1 14"
| MacBook Pro and essentially have a better machine in every way at
| a very similar cost to the base price of the M2 Air models.
|
| You can't really do that in the same way with the M1 Air because
| you're sacrificing the newer superior form factor to get a system
| with a really ancient design, large bezels, and bad webcam, while
| the M1 MacBook Pro compared to the M2 is a nearly identical
| system with almost all of the same advantages.
|
| The 8GB/256GB models of the MacBook Air are a price anchor more
| than a practical model, because I think that the majority of
| buyers should upgrade at least one of those specs if not both
| regardless of how light their usage is.
| denimnerd42 wrote:
| the 14" pro is so much better. The on board speakers are so
| much better and the ports on both sides is obviously so much
| more convenient. The con is the weight but it's a fair tradeoff
| if you spend most of your time working at a desk and not just
| surfing on the sofa.
|
| the big problem with the 8/256 is not that it's useless, it's
| that it's the primary model retailers like costco, bestbuy, etc
| purchse. So you end up with these great sales on useless
| computers. I'm sure some clueless people buy them and suffer
| from that but I can't recommend them to anybody. The price ends
| up being double the 8/256 price once the sales occur. 8/256 for
| $800 or 900 vs 16/512/or 1TB for 1600+ infuriating.
| mcphage wrote:
| I don't really get this article at all. The M2 Air is a good,
| solid machine. Apple _should_ be in the business of making good,
| solid machines. It doesn 't matter how good this year's M3 Air
| is; I'm not going to buy it, because my year old M2 Air is great.
| In 5 or 6 years (or more) when I'm looking to replace my M2 Air
| with a M7 or M8 Air, hopefully that'll be a good, solid machine,
| too.
|
| Laptops aren't fast fashion.
| rcarr wrote:
| The 3nm chips in the M3 are rumoured to bring about a 30%
| improvement in power efficiency. If I wasn't moving towards
| using an Android for everything, I would definitely think about
| selling my M1 for that sort of improved battery life.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I think Apple has the same problems with iPads. True, I did buy a
| new M1 iPad Pro two years ago and I love it (16G memory, 1TB
| "disk"), but when I travel like I am doing now I travel with an
| almost five year old small iPad Pro - this old piece of hardware
| really does most of what I need, including light duty programming
| on a VPS via mosh/ssh.
|
| Come to think of it, my Apple Watch is about five years old and
| still does everything I need.
|
| Apple is transitioning to a partially services company, which is
| a good move. Apple gets about $45/month from my family.
|
| EDIT: I also usually get at least four years service from Mac
| laptops, and even longer for two really old ones that run Linux.
| konschubert wrote:
| Hardware companies that sell add-on services for their hardware
| have an incentive to keep old hardware running.
|
| I think that's a good thing.
| lacker wrote:
| Yeah, especially iPads for kids - if one day the newest version
| of Minecraft required a new iPad, I'd be buying three new
| iPads. But it doesn't, it works fine, and for the kids I'm even
| less likely to buy a new device just because it's faster and
| has more space and a better camera etc etc.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| I still use an iPad Air 2 (from 2014) and every year I look at
| the new iPad coming out, think about upgrading, and just don't
| see a point. It's stuck on iOS 15 so I might finally be forced
| to upgrade to a device because of that eventually, but
| otherwise it does a perfectly adequate job of everything I want
| out of an iPad nearly 9 years later.
| technofiend wrote:
| I'm with you in that there's no compelling reason to upgrade my
| iPad Pro because it just works. Having said that, I'm mulling
| over a mini, studio or macbook pro for a development system,
| but not the air. Why not the air? For reasons unclear to me
| Apple only includes Wifi 6e support on the Pro devices and not
| the latest Air. That's also currently true on the ipad line:
| only the pro devices speak 6e as well. Does it really matter on
| the ipad? Perhaps not, but in my area wifi pollution is so
| rampant, the devices I most rely upon (cell phone, windows
| laptop) speak 6e because it's the only way to get decent
| transfer rates.
|
| In fact I nearly purchased a macbook but decided to roll the
| device on an upgrade instead first because it was so cheap to
| do so. This would never happen with an apple device - my six
| year old windows laptop's upgrade to 6/6e was a $25 part
| purchased on Amazon and replaced on the motherboard in a matter
| of minutes. That's the other reason I'm not really dying to buy
| an apple device, no matter how portable or how great battery
| life is: it's a wasting asset that is designed to be
| unrepairable, much less upgradeable. And although it can be
| handy to do development locally, mosh/ssh and guacamole make it
| so there's no compelling reason to upgrade my six year old
| laptop either.
| not_enoch_wise wrote:
| If this isn't an advertisement, why does this article exist?
| drewg123 wrote:
| To me, it seems like the best feature Apple could offer on a
| Macbook is a 2-in-1 form factor, with a touch screen and an iPad
| mode.
|
| I refuse on principal to carry an iPad and a macbook, since its
| basically the same hardware, and iOS apps _should_ run on
| Macbooks (and do, if the developer hasn 't outright blocked them,
| which sadly most do).
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