[HN Gopher] Reviewing a Dell Linux PC 23 years ago
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Reviewing a Dell Linux PC 23 years ago
        
       Author : lproven
       Score  : 86 points
       Date   : 2023-09-10 12:30 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (liam-on-linux.dreamwidth.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (liam-on-linux.dreamwidth.org)
        
       | browningstreet wrote:
       | I'm struck by how beautiful that page design was.
       | 
       | We don't really daily printed things that look nice anymore.
       | Certainly web pages don't look/read well, and as much as I like
       | Feedly/Unread, reading an article there isn't better than reading
       | a printed magazine article.. then and still.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | I'm disappointed with the keming though. "Red H at"
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | What am I missing? It's a three-column layout with an image in
         | the center. It's OK, I guess. I'm not seeing any beauty. In
         | fact, some of the text flow around the image looks quite
         | awkward to me. It was probably done in 5 minutes with PageMaker
         | or whatever publishing software magazines used at the time.
        
         | least wrote:
         | The unfortunate reality of working with responsive layouts and
         | unlimited canvas sizes are that it's rare to see anything on
         | the web that looks as delightful as a page in a magazine or
         | book, where the dimensions/aspect ratio are static. There are
         | occasionally some pages that really demonstrate the best of
         | what _can be_ but creating these is significantly more
         | expensive than designing a nice looking layout for a magazine.
         | 
         | I actually really miss designing webpages without any
         | consideration for accessibility or for different sized screens
         | because I felt like you could be a _lot_ more creative back
         | when you 'd just throw a "Best viewed at 800x600 in Internet
         | Explorer" disclaimer on your website.
        
           | AnonCoward42 wrote:
           | I honestly don't see the dichotomy here. Can't you do both if
           | you want? Use a design like the one on Liam on Linux' site
           | and make it responsive (where necessary). Actually ... this
           | site is already responsive enough imo.
        
             | least wrote:
             | > Can't you do both if you want? Use a design like the one
             | on Liam on Linux' site and make it responsive (where
             | necessary). Actually ... this site is already responsive
             | enough imo.
             | 
             | You can't both enforce a very specific aspect ratio and
             | dimensions and be responsive with any semblance of
             | practicality. The reason the magazine page can look good is
             | because the person designing it knows exactly the size of
             | all the elements, the aspect ratio and dimensions of the
             | page it's being printed to. All of the graphics are placed
             | intentionally, and all of the type is set intentionally to
             | exactly where they want it to be and how they want it to
             | look, with of course the constraint of the content
             | dictating what that will be.
             | 
             | On a webpage you're just doing a lot of guessing of what
             | the viewport might look like for users. You probably could,
             | through media queries, determine if a person's viewport is
             | exactly right for your one desired layout and only show it
             | if that's the case, but that'd be a waste of resources. You
             | could also enforce the layout you want in your css by
             | setting things by pixels and then you'll be sure that it
             | looks exactly as you intend... except then it isn't
             | responsive.
             | 
             | So hypothetically, yes, you could still have it be
             | responsive, but there's just no point, is there, if only
             | the people that happen to meet your very specific
             | requirements ever see it?
             | 
             | That's why good web design is _hard_ and why it 's become,
             | in my opinion, kind of boring in terms of layout design.
             | You have to account for all those different devices looking
             | at it and try to make it look as nice as possible while
             | still being useable.
        
       | datalus wrote:
       | Truly this is the year of Linux on the desktop!
        
         | juunpp wrote:
         | Its popularity always growing by an epsilon.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | demondemidi wrote:
       | Nice to see XFree86 is much easier to setup these days.
        
       | lemper wrote:
       | with that much of dough now (inflation adjusted), I just hope
       | that common server focused Linux distros are supported out of the
       | box. my experience with dell workstation (refurbed one though),
       | was pretty ok ish. not that buttery smooth but was ok.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | PCs used to be pretty costly. The long-time editor in chief of
         | PC Magazine coined "Machrone's Law" that the PC you wanted
         | always cost $5,000--and that held pretty well into at least the
         | late 90s.
         | 
         | Supported Linux on one or two PC models is a pretty
         | longstanding sideline of Dell's. They've had some version of
         | Ubuntu on a laptop for a long time.
        
           | steveBK123 wrote:
           | Right, and that was in 90s dollars!
           | 
           | It's pretty astounding what you get for $2k 2023 dollars now,
           | which is roughly $1k in 1998 dollars.
           | 
           | Plus that $2k 2023 machine will be good enough for probably 5
           | years even for a pretty serious professional. Versus a $3k
           | 1998 machine that even for a young hobbyist was basically
           | decrepit in under 3 years.
           | 
           | So your modern day computing run rate is like $400 2023
           | dollars per year, versus late 90s being easily the equivalent
           | of $2k 2023 dollars per year.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Once GUIs became the norm, that shiny new PC you
             | bought/built was basically not fast enough on Day 1.
             | Whereas I still use my 2015 iMac and MacBook and they're
             | really not even that bad for photo and video editing. I did
             | buy an M1 Pro MacBook for multimedia but I'll be the first
             | to admit it was sort of a luxury purchase. (And partly for
             | reasons that may not really play out.)
             | 
             | My first dual floppy PC clone (who could afford a hard disk
             | or genuine IBM?) in 1982 was somewhere in the low 4 digits
             | all-in which was probably close to 10% of my gross salary
             | _as an engineer_ at the time.
             | 
             | But, yeah, you can get a very well equipped Mac for about
             | $3K these days. (Which is obviously not the economy PC
             | option.) Even if you were starting from scratch you'd
             | probably have to really work to get it up to $5K with
             | external monitor, external hard drives, peripherals,
             | printer, etc.
        
       | baz00 wrote:
       | Oh wow I bought one of them at the time to run windows 2000.
       | Nicely put together machine.
        
       | deepakin wrote:
       | Oh man, I remember attempting to install Mandrake Linux on a HP
       | machine back in '03......Ended up taking all night and into the
       | morning with a buddy and I, and even then some drivers were
       | missing and did not work well... Good times though for sure.
        
       | oaiey wrote:
       | The articles has some nice statements which did not age well:
       | 
       | A video card suitable for gamers but not for a workstation. We
       | have 2-3 Business Hype cycles which rely completely on graphic
       | cards.
       | 
       | Or the shocking default setting of DHCP in the TCP/IP setting. As
       | if today 90% of network stacks would work without DHCP and IMHO a
       | Network Admin would never rely on a front end for managing IP
       | addresses.
        
       | ralmidani wrote:
       | I don't have experience with GNU/Linux going back that far, but
       | even since 2014 (when I got started with Ubuntu), I've seen
       | things get much, much better.
       | 
       | These days my personal and professional daily drivers are,
       | respectively, a 2021 and a 2022 Framework laptop, both with
       | Fedora/GNOME updated regularly. The software is so much more
       | usable than any MS OS since Windows 7, and even MacOS of the past
       | 2-3 years (many people I talk to have remarked on how MacOS
       | quality and usability have been degrading recently).
       | 
       | The only pain points I notice with my Framework are not strictly
       | software-related (dislaimer: I don't play much in terms of modern
       | games anymore); power management/suspend (an atrocity in my
       | experience), and quality of internal peripherals (the mic,
       | webcam, and trackpad are almost useless, so I use just use a dock
       | and external peripherals - and they work great with minimal
       | hassle).
       | 
       | Not to sound like a broken record, but 2024 will probably be the
       | year of the GNU/Linux desktop, especially with Framework's AMD
       | 16-inch laptop with upgradeable GPU making a huge splash, and MS
       | and Apple continuing to alienate developers and power users. I'm
       | actually glad they're getting worse because it pushes more people
       | toward FOSS - severe but temporary punishment is actually more
       | effective and less cruel than life in prison.
        
       | alchemist1e9 wrote:
       | There is something seriously bothering me recently when I look
       | back on last 20 years of computing.
       | 
       | > This supports dual Pentium III processors running at up to 1GHz
       | and up to four RIMMs; the review machine had two 64MB modules for
       | 128MB of dual-channel RDRAM.
       | 
       | I recently dug out from storage an old, from 2002, reasonably
       | high spec Thinkpad (sorry don't have exact specs on hand). I was
       | obviously running Linux on it at the time as I've been using
       | Linux as my primary operating system since 1995! Yes seriously I
       | have.
       | 
       | Anyway. I decide to boot it up, knowing it was stored it pretty
       | much ideal conditions. It works perfectly, except battery of
       | course.
       | 
       | It only has 64MB ram! But everything runs, the web browser. And
       | it's fast.
       | 
       | I only spent about 1 hour playing round. But it left me
       | distraught. What has happened that our web browsers use 2G of
       | memory and are slow! What really is the software progress in last
       | 20 years? Obviously the hardware has progressed massively but I
       | couldn't help but be concerned with how little improvement was
       | immediately obvious, in fact it was so fast and reactive GUI,
       | faster than today!
        
         | lizknope wrote:
         | My first PC was a Pentium 90 with 16MB RAM in 1994. I bought it
         | specifically to run Linux. I've never really used DOS/Windows
         | as my main OS on my personal machine.
         | 
         | Everything was fast back then. I had X11, Netscape, ethernet in
         | the dorm. In a lot of ways I prefer the simple text heavy web
         | pages of the time.
         | 
         | I've been designing integrated circuits including many chips in
         | popular smartphones, network switches, and more. We make stuff
         | faster but software manages to expand making my 8 core CPU with
         | 64GB of RAM feel about the same when web browsing compared to
         | back then.
         | 
         | I don't want to go back to those days but in many ways my
         | computer with multiple X terminals, XFCE desktop, and Firefox,
         | is extremely similar.
        
           | dizhn wrote:
           | Even years after that Netscape would crash without any error
           | messages and vanish multiple times a day. The past might have
           | been good but we take so many things for granted today. Even
           | if a browser crashes, it usually keeps all your tabs intact
           | when you start it back up.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Something disappears into the ether every couple of years
             | these days, but losing most of a day's work to a crash or
             | some fat-fingered muscle memory back in the day didn't used
             | to be an uncommon occurrence at all.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | baz00 wrote:
         | I'll sound like a miserable old bastard here, which I am, but
         | I'm all for bringing back Gopher and banning any non native
         | applications on a platform. Electron I'm looking at you.
         | 
         | All the native apps on my Mac desktop, an ass end M1 mac mini,
         | are really really damn fast.
         | 
         | The moment I put windows, any managed apps or anything web
         | based or wrapped web applications near any computer, a world of
         | pain opens. It's mostly energy sucking buggy crap which serves
         | the developers more than the customers. That's a cancer in the
         | industry which is only going to get worse when we ship towers
         | of excrement on top of WASM.
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | I have pipe dreams of using Serenity OS as my daily driver.
           | 
           | Also, I advise you to try Haiku OS Live CD. It's refreshing.
        
             | baz00 wrote:
             | I was a BeOS user for a few months back in the day. That
             | would be perfect but no I need to use things which are on
             | macOS.
        
         | demondemidi wrote:
         | Less resource pressure. No need to fit in 64 MB when you have
         | 2,000 MB.
         | 
         | Less experienced programmers (only know the latest thing;
         | promoted to mediocre project leads... while the Old Guard
         | doesn't pass on their knowledge before retiring)
         | 
         | Poorly documented code resulting layered workarounds (MS code
         | from the 80's and 90's was hot garbage in terms of comments;
         | source: I worked on Win95 diplay drivers and didn't comment any
         | of my 16-bit VXDs. See previous gripe about O.G. being bad at
         | documentation)
         | 
         | Bloated libraries (ironically, reluctance to jettison old code
         | that is not well understood, so patch around it and keep
         | dragging the baggage to the next release.)
         | 
         | Insufficient test suites causing too much bloat (see previous
         | comment).
         | 
         | More complex APIs (spywhere and integrations everywhere).
         | 
         | I haven't walked the Windows source tree in 30 years, it would
         | be fascinating to see a breakdown of the kernal linker map
         | summaries.
        
         | stefan_ wrote:
         | One thing that people overlook is just stuff like screen sizes.
         | Back then your laptop was 640x480. Now it's 3840x2160, 26 times
         | as many pixels to push. Just a single 4k framebuffer will take
         | up 32 MiB, you are gonna need at least two (and your system
         | might even want to use 3) so you are looking at 96 MiB of
         | memory right there. And this leaks into everything - just
         | keeping a single display fed at 60 Hz takes up 2 GByte/s of
         | memory bandwidth, more than half of what your dual-channel
         | RDRAM setup could even deliver.
        
           | AshamedCaptain wrote:
           | While there is some truth to your point, you have to remember
           | that resolutions where already pretty high in the 90s (CRTs,
           | not LCDs); I remember using 1024x768 as the standard, and it
           | only required something like a 2MB VGA card. Part of the
           | reason we had these huge framebuffers and still work with a
           | minuscule amount of RAM is cultural. Programs (GUIs, games)
           | would just NOT store a bazillion copies of the framebuffer,
           | but rather only one or two (and mostly in the video card
           | itself), and would prefer to scroll or redraw rather then to
           | save/restore contents of the framebuffer whenever possible.
           | 
           | One pretty obvious example happened in the 2000s where the
           | major 3 operating systems switched to desktop compositing
           | almost simultaneously. You suddenly jump from requiring
           | memory for just one framebuffer to requiring memory for one
           | framebuffer + a copy of all the windows you have created.
        
             | saltcured wrote:
             | I've posted about this before, but people forget that we
             | used to worry about bit depth for the framebuffer and
             | available VRAM. And back then, such a low-RAM card was only
             | doing 2D acceleration at most, with a little offscreen
             | buffer for fonts and sprites that would be blitted into the
             | active framebuffer or composed at the DAC by the card
             | itself (like the cursor).
             | 
             | Just for your example, 1024x768 would require a minimum of
             | 3 MB just for a single buffer of pixels if stored with
             | today's typical 4-byte RGBA and updated in immediate mode.
             | A double-buffering technique would take twice as much. Most
             | often, we were using either 8-bit pseudo-color mode or
             | maybe 2-byte 15-bit true color with only 5 bits per RGB
             | component and no transparency. A 2MB card might support
             | 1024x768 in 15-bit mode or 1280x1024 in 8-bit mode.
             | 
             | I distinctly remember on my first serious Linux machine
             | when I downloaded a single large JPEG image from an
             | academic site and displayed it with the "xv" command which
             | was the go-to image viewer at the time. It required virtual
             | memory swapping because the image buffer to store the
             | decoded image would be larger than my entire 20MB of system
             | RAM. This was an unusual image, interesting to me mostly
             | for this fact. As I recall, it was a high resolution scan
             | of an ancient manuscript.
        
             | alchemist1e9 wrote:
             | I find this line of thinking very interesting. From above:
             | 
             | > And this leaks into everything - just keeping a single
             | display fed at 60 Hz takes up 2 GByte/s of memory
             | bandwidth, more than half of what your dual-channel RDRAM
             | setup could even deliver.
             | 
             | Does anyone know how practical are any countermeasures, for
             | instance is tinycorelinux tinyx working for anyone?
             | 
             | I'm particularly interested in all the used Chromebooks
             | floating around and what are some ways to trick them out
             | with customized Linux.
        
         | afavour wrote:
         | It's just economics, really. 1GB of RAM was unfathomably
         | expensive back then so if you wrote software requiring it you'd
         | be dead in the water.
         | 
         | These days RAM is cheaper than development time so instead of
         | writing tightly memory controlled programs in C we write in
         | e.g. garbage collected JavaScript. It's easier to learn and
         | quicker to develop with. Part of me is broken hearted that the
         | "art" of efficient programming is lost but it was an inevitable
         | consequence of software becoming so central to our lives.
         | 
         | (and hey, that same discipline does still exist today if you
         | want to dabble in it, in embedded spaces etc)
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | > 1GB of RAM was unfathomably expensive back then
           | 
           | Well ... about $6k which wasn't astonishing for workstation
           | budgets. These were machines that many people used to run
           | software that cost $100k/year.
           | 
           | A credit to the incredible expandability of this era of
           | Precision Workstation machines is you could have expanded the
           | model 620 to 3GiB of main memory, which isn't bad at all.
           | With 2x Pentium III Xeon CPUs and 3GiB you could credibly use
           | that machine today. All that RAM only costs $75 today.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | I also feel "back then" it was quite easy for a enthusiast
           | machine to be quite well past "top of the line" whereas now
           | we've been in the 2-4GB "standard" for so long that most
           | people have it - it's decently hard to have something
           | surprisingly faster than "top of the line".
           | 
           | E.g, I remember "recommended specs" for computer games that
           | would ask for 64 MB of RAM; I had 128 MB.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Something like 16GB is or exceeds recommended specs for
             | most desktop things... But some people are running 64 or
             | 128GB in their desktops. So, I think overkill computers are
             | still out there. It is pretty hard to get ahead of CPU
             | specs now though: used to be you could get server chips
             | (and a server/workstation board) and have something that
             | was clearly better in every area other than price. Now,
             | desktop sockets get new architectures before servers, and
             | server chips have more cores, but usually lower clocks and
             | not everything will scale to more cores in a way that makes
             | that better.
        
         | jcelerier wrote:
         | I've installed a clean windows 11 on some okay hardware a few
         | days ago (i7 10750H, 32G ram, two 5GB/s NVMe SSD, GTX 2060) and
         | everything is so astonishingly slow, at first I was mad but now
         | I'm just utterly amazed.
         | 
         | I'll sometime wait three seconds for the explorer to open.
         | Launching any non-trivial app takes on average 10 seconds.
         | Sometimes copying stuff from a disk to another will show the
         | incredible speed of 2 MB/s on stuff that should be literally
         | instant. I have to _wait for git_ which literally never happens
         | to me on Linux ; just opening an MSYS shell lags (it 's just a
         | console and bash ffs!). MsMpEng.exe uses 15 - 20% CPU
         | constantly even when turning every A/V shit off. And let's not
         | even talk about usability - I got stuck for some reason with
         | keyboard layouts that I didn't install, and apparently in Win
         | 11, by default, not less than THREE SHORTCUTS will switch
         | between layouts - ctrl+shift, alt+shift and win+space, which
         | made coding absolutely insane until I could find a way to the
         | "advanced keyboard settings" where the "alt+shift" shortcut
         | could be turned off (which apparently also automagically turned
         | off the "ctrl+shift" one).
         | 
         | And I could find hundred of messages on boards complaining
         | about this, with "Microsoft MVPs" answering with the most
         | generic and useless advice like "chkdsk", "do a check from your
         | bios", "update your drivers".
         | 
         | Linux on the same hardware absolutely flies even when ran from
         | a USB 2 stick, with as much eye candy with e.g. KDE Plasma.
         | 
         | And let's not talk about C++ compile times which are insane in
         | Windows with the exact same compiler & toolchain (clang 16,
         | libc++, lld...) compared to Linux, even when taking care of
         | installing it on a separate drive, excluding the whole drive
         | from virus scan...
        
           | distract8901 wrote:
           | My work laptop runs windows. 16 core 3.4GHz I7, pretty
           | respectable. It should be, it's brand new.
           | 
           | C++ compilation takes more than twice as long as my Linux
           | server from 2010. It's got two 16 core Xeon 2600-something
           | processors at 2.6GHz. GCC doesn't even fully load the
           | processors, it's something like 70% average and still runs
           | twice as fast.
           | 
           | Fortunately, the exact details of my job have changed and I
           | can switch to Linux soon. If my work machine still can't
           | compete with my server, I can just slap distcc on it and use
           | my server as a remote compile node. Might do it anyway, the
           | compile is 'only' five minutes on my server, if I can combine
           | these machines it'll likely halve again.
        
             | baz00 wrote:
             | That'll probably be NTFS shafting you. It's terrible at
             | handling small files.
             | 
             | Trick I found was to fire up a Linux VM and do your
             | compilation in there.
        
               | wongarsu wrote:
               | Also Windows file handling in general. It's incredibly
               | flexible, allowing an arbitrary number of drivers to log
               | or modify every disk access. That's great if you want
               | real-time antivirus software, transparent file encryption
               | (without encrypting the full partition), data-loss
               | prevention software, advanced file syncing etc. But it
               | also makes workflows that access lots of small files very
               | slow.
               | 
               | Instead of a VM you can also use WSL2, assuming you put
               | the files in the linux file system instead of accessing
               | the host file system. (Yes, technically that's also just
               | a fancy VM running in Hyper-V; but it's a more integrated
               | experience than e.g. VMWare)
        
             | StillBored wrote:
             | I don't run windows seriously anymore, but on small tablet
             | level devices i've used recently, disabling everything in
             | the "security" menus will significantly speed up windows.
             | 
             | In particular disabling MS defender (or whatever its called
             | this week), will provide a massive increase in disk speed
             | as its not longer scanning every single thing your reading
             | off the disk.
             | 
             | This isn't so much NFTS but all the filters/etc that
             | windows now comes with. In the past you would only get this
             | behavior if you installed norton/mcafee and let it turn IO
             | problems into CPU bound ones, but now its mostly
             | unavoidable on windows. While your linux machine probably
             | doesn't even have an always on virus scanner available.
        
         | mftrhu wrote:
         | > What has happened that our web browsers use 2G of memory and
         | are slow!
         | 
         | They are much more complex - ridiculously so - both because of
         | the constant evolution of web standards _and_ because of
         | everything they need to do to keep what they execute in its own
         | sandbox.
         | 
         | It doesn't help that the actual content being served just keeps
         | on bloating. Think back to the average web page in the early
         | 2000s: it was probably still browsed over a 56k modem, CSS was
         | _starting_ to get support, and if it might have had a few
         | inline images it was still mostly text embedded in plain HTML.
         | Web apps were CGI, JS was used sparingly, and people were
         | _still_ using frames.
         | 
         | Those pages were positively _anemic_ when compared to what we
         | sling around nowadays. 1 MB used to be _a lot of data_ , and it
         | just isn't the case anymore. You have layers of abstractions
         | piled up on each other, isolated from the rest of the system as
         | much as possible, slurping in, parsing and rendering multi-
         | megabyte compressed, encrypted blobs.
         | 
         | But yes - it is a shame. We are doing _so much more_ to achieve
         | pretty much the same thing, and I keep on asking myself if we
         | really need to.
        
           | vbezhenar wrote:
           | I can also add mandatory TLS to this list. Back in the day
           | you could receive an entire webpage response in the first TCP
           | packet with data. TLS requires more turn-arounds, especially
           | if webpage uses multiple different domains, and network
           | latency is not going anywhere, it's physics. I had 200 ms
           | latency in 2000, I have 200 ms latency in 2020, I'll have 200
           | ms latency in 2050, that's just thousands of kilometers to
           | travel.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | Latencies have gotten better, although not tremendously so.
             | 
             | Depending on your last mile tech in 2000 and what you have
             | now, you might have gone fron dialup with first hop round
             | trips of 50-100ms, to something in the neighborhood of
             | 5-25ms with fiber, dsl or cable. Or maybe you were already
             | on dsl or cable and things are about the same.
             | 
             | Most of a 200ms round trip is on a long distance route, and
             | fiber routes have improved, as had routing equipment in the
             | data path. If you're outside the US and Europe, there's
             | been a lot more local interconnections too, so routes that
             | used to bounce through US/EU in 2000 don't in 2023.
             | 
             | Saving a few ms here and there adds up, but 160 ms instead
             | of 200 ms doesn't feel that much different.
        
         | purpleflame1257 wrote:
         | There are a few things 1) the tradition of tight code writing
         | has been abandoned in favor of fast deployment, to the point of
         | people expecting day 0 bugs in software. 2) webpages themselves
         | are bigger. 3) latency from webloading trained people to expect
         | it locally, and a lot of apps are just wrappers around what are
         | effectively webapps.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | A couple things: your fonts render better, your text is in
         | Unicode (may not be a big deal for Americans, just trust me
         | that I care that I can write reliably in my own language), your
         | kernel has to support many more abstractions.
         | 
         | But the real issue is that the browser does a lot more than it
         | used to and languages with JIT compilers and automatic memory
         | management are just going to have a much higher overhead than
         | C++. This is doubly true when the languages are non-typed and
         | ultra-dynamic like JS.
         | 
         | For a while I browsed the internet without JS enabled and sites
         | that didn't break loaded without any visible delay.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | Do you also remember that Netscape Navigator was hot garbage?
         | It was so bad that people would brag about how stable their OS
         | was by how well it handled Netscape crashes.
         | 
         | The first computer I felt was _fast_ and responsive is my
         | current MacBook Air M2.
         | 
         | But in all honesty, I haven't worked with my own personal
         | computer in years. I mostly worked on corporate Windows
         | computers and my last Mac was a latest generation MacBook Pro
         | 16 inch with corporate installed malware.
        
         | Aleklart wrote:
         | Browsers are doing insane work very efficient: rendering pages
         | of true type fonts and ultra res images while executing
         | hundreds of js per second in VM and transforming page layout
         | according to dynamically changing CSS rules. For all 10-100
         | sites opened at once.
         | 
         | It is Linux that now slow and bloated, not speaking of layers
         | of GTK lard that can not render a window with simple controls
         | without consuming hundreds of megabytes.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Well, part of the answer with respect to web browsers
         | specifically is that we keep 100 tabs open and websites are
         | often very bloated with respect to advertising-related
         | components in particular. Security-related features probably
         | also add some degree of overhead.
         | 
         | If I just want to run something simple locally on a stripped
         | down version of Linux it would probably be pretty fast and
         | resource-efficient.
        
         | emilsedgh wrote:
         | > What really is the software progress in last 20 years?
         | 
         | It has become significantly cheaper and easier to build
         | software.
         | 
         | That has come at the cost of an enormous complexity paid by
         | hardware and reliability.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I question the reliability part. Certainly there is more
           | complexity (in some respects), more dependencies, etc. But
           | I'd probably argue that most of the software I use today is
           | more reliable than equivalent software (if it existed) that I
           | used a couple decades ago.
        
       | ericzawo wrote:
       | I can't believe companies were totally cool with shipping very
       | expensive family computers in 2000 with "no sound support." Lol.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | "Precision Workstation" was not marketed to home users. It was
         | a real workstation. The Dell home systems were Inspiron and
         | Dimension.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | forgotusername6 wrote:
         | I remember the intense frustration of my first computer of
         | having to select which sound card you had for certain games. Oh
         | sure, your computer did come with sound, but not for this game
         | as your card wasn't on the list of supported cards.
        
       | Mistletoe wrote:
       | Does anyone notice how different his writing is than what we see
       | now? I miss when people wrote like this. Everything now is so
       | direct and informal. Internet writing now is like a text message,
       | as abrupt and emotion laden as possible, like it knows the
       | readers have an attention span of less than ten seconds. We've
       | lost something.
        
         | pjerem wrote:
         | No, good prose still exists but you have to pay for it.
         | 
         | You are just overwhelmed by free low quality content.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | Unmentioned in the review is the disaster of trying to upgrade
       | your RAM in these. I had the model 620, on which the 8 RIMM slots
       | were on two expansion cards. RIMMs were invented by a person who
       | appreciated the user-friendly nature of SCSI. You had to
       | correctly deduce if and where to install "Continuity RIMMs" which
       | shorted the bus to termination networks on the motherboard. And
       | of course you were responsible for not losing these if you ever
       | removed them from the system.
        
       | thsksbd wrote:
       | The old keyboards of 90s and early 2000 laptops were ideal.
        
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