[HN Gopher] Coffee in a Can
___________________________________________________________________
Coffee in a Can
Author : kizunajp
Score : 286 points
Date : 2023-09-10 00:30 UTC (22 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (one-from-nippon.ghost.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (one-from-nippon.ghost.io)
| postcert wrote:
| One aspect I rarely seen mentioned is The price of these canned
| coffees in Japan. I remember most ranging from 100-250 yen ($1-2
| when I last visited). As a tourist that was the biggest selling
| point for me, getting pretty good coffee warm or cold in seconds.
|
| Sadly every time I see some mention of UCC or Boss coffee I spend
| a few minutes browsing to see if it can be imported near that
| price. Lately though it has been getting better with occasional
| sale on Amazon making them a nice treat.
| wdb wrote:
| Wondering if they have similar stories about tea. There aren't
| many good ice teas in vending machines. Barely taste like tea.
| Personally I don't drink coffee but can imagine it's similar to
| the tea problem?
| rvba wrote:
| I dont have any information about canned tea, but I would
| assume that it exists, since Japan has a whole tea ceremony (
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_tea_ceremony ).
| brap wrote:
| >You and I would have grumbled and moved on. But not Toshikage.
|
| In many of these sort of entrepreneurship stories, this is the
| key takeaway. It seems like one really has to disable their auto-
| grumbling setting and enable something else instead. Of course
| this is easier said than done.
|
| Is this an innate ability? Something that can be trained?
| cmod wrote:
| This old site: https://cannedcoffee.org/
| joecool1029 wrote:
| I miss the UCC Drink It Black coffee cans. I used to see them at
| Asian grocery stores (Mitsuwa was where I first tried the cans)
| and would buy a dozen or so at a time. I guess they discontinued
| the line.
| isitmadeofglass wrote:
| [dead]
| kristianc wrote:
| Fond memories of working on the Georgia Coffee account when I was
| in Japan at the start of my career - insanely profitable drink
| for Coke as there's very little distribution cost, simply strike
| a deal with the bottlers and boom you have 200m units in front of
| people.
|
| This means that you can have insane variety - 20/30 different
| types of this canned coffee are not uncommon at all and the
| Japanese consumers are absolutely hooked on it.
| couchand wrote:
| La Colombe makes a hell of a canned latte if you're looking for
| something like this stateside.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I dunno if this is just me but I find cold beverages just feel
| colder and nicer in cans than plastic or glass bottles.
| eloisant wrote:
| Well that makes sense, metal have a higher heat capacity than
| plastic or glass so they stay cold longer
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I think that might be moot. A can conducts so well that I
| imagine it pretty much shares the temperature of the beverage
| at all times. So how much is the heat capacity of the can vs.
| the liquid? I'm betting the liquid is like 99% of it.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I would actually expect that thermal conductivity is so much
| better that they heat up faster. But at the same time
| sensation of holding one makes it feel cooler.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| It's probably the heat transfer from your mouth and the shape
| of the holding medium [1]. For me, can > glass > plastic.
| Apparently there's a certain kind of art to choosing shapes for
| cold beverages.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCbYEyfhTQQ
| okonomiyaki3000 wrote:
| The Tommy Lee Jones campaign was wildly successful and extremely
| long-lived but the post makes it sound like it launched the
| brand. This is not true. Boss was around for some time before
| that campaign.
| kizunajp wrote:
| Author here. Thank you for pointing this out! I have updated
| the post.
|
| Boss was launched in 1992 (which was already a long time after
| canned coffee had taken off in the 70s) and only hired Tommy
| Lee Jones in 2006.
| AlchemistCamp wrote:
| I like UCC black coffee enough that I ordered it off of Amazon
| when I moved to California for a while.
| supportengineer wrote:
| It's available in any local California Japanese market also -
| Nijiya, Marukai, Mitsua.
| giantrobot wrote:
| I discovered and fell in love with Japanese canned coffees when I
| moved to the Bay Area. There's lots of Asian markets there that
| carry them.
|
| They are not _great_ coffee nor are they bad. They 're mostly
| just good. Boss and UCC and other brands I can't remember have
| options with different roasts and brews. In a sufficiently
| stocked store you can probably find a coffee you like.
|
| Edit: accidentally a word I used to buy a bunch and put them in a
| paper bag in the shared office fridge. I stuffed the bag in the
| back so no one ever disturbed it. I still dream of being able to
| grab one from a vending machine to get the full effect.
| spike021 wrote:
| Boss Coffee, Rainbow Mountain blend is my favorite. Really hits
| the spot.
|
| I live in the Bay Area as well and I've found that both Mitsuwa
| and Nijiya markets haven't had them in stock nearly as much as
| pre-COVID; guessing some logistics/supply chain situation that
| still hasn't quite recovered.
|
| I'm going back to Japan next month though, so my cravings will
| finally be satisfied!
| astrange wrote:
| My favorite Japanese brand is Georgia Emerald Mountain
| coffee, by Coca-Cola Japan, because Georgia doesn't make
| coffee or have anywhere called Emerald Mountain.
|
| There's also a crepe stand in Akiba called "Atlanta Crazy
| Crepes" and I always wondered if it was somehow related.
| spike021 wrote:
| Heh there's also a crepe stand in Harajuku called Santa
| Monica Crepes, if I'm remembering correctly.
|
| I think I've had that Emerald Mountain one too.
| snvzz wrote:
| The problem is getting real-ish black.
|
| With no trace of sugar or sweeteners, nor milk.
| laundryfolding wrote:
| > Tadao had somewhat of a reputation as a frugal man. He hated
| seeing things go to waste. And he couldn't shake off the
| frustration of the coffee. "If only there was a way I could buy
| and carry my coffee with me..." he reasoned.P Fate couldn't have
| chosen a better person for this encounter.P Tadao Ueshima was the
| CEO of UCC Coffee
|
| Does this still exist? It seems like most people I know who break
| into even slightly high earnings and attain some level of
| affluence are in it primarily for the appearances associated with
| affluence--signalling that they're above thinking about stuff
| like this.
| nrp wrote:
| I suspect this is a reasonably common origin story. Plenty of
| people hate waste, and the ones who have some level of wealth
| or power just happen to be more readily positioned to act on
| solving it.
|
| For what it's worth, I was able to start Framework to combat
| e-waste because I was financially in a position to do so.
| Guvante wrote:
| There are plenty of wealthy frugal people, they just don't get
| talked about much since they aren't as exciting.
|
| Also often people who have tons of wealth start divesting it
| once they realize they have too much. And again a "could have
| been a dozens of millionaire but just a millionaire" doesn't
| make engaging content.
| alasdair_ wrote:
| Warren Buffet still lives in the same smallish house he bought
| in the 60s.
|
| The CEO of Ikea famously uses both sides of each sheet of paper
| on his desk.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| "Smallish" his Omaha house is about triple the size of the
| average modern American home, and he bought it in 1958 when
| homes were much smaller than today!
| laundryfolding wrote:
| > Warren Buffet still lives in the same smallish house he
| bought in the 60s.
|
| 50s, not 60s. And it's a bad counterexample. Warren Buffett
| is 93 years old. (Or to put it another way, Warren Buffett is
| old enough to have bought a house in the 50s. I'm discussing
| the differences between then and now: people who _might_ _be_
| 50, but definitely weren 't alive in the 50s, let alone
| buying a house.)
| socrates137 wrote:
| I'd never heard this about Warren Buffet and so looked it up
| out of curiosity. I'm going to be honest, I hesitate to call
| it "smallish" for the average American (around 6500 sq ft).
| But I'll admit it's smaller and more modest than most homes
| owned by billionaires. At least according to my brief search,
| it's the only house he owns, too.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| He's remodeled it many times and put on additions (I
| think).
| Ekaros wrote:
| I think there is cultural divide between manufacturing, retail
| and such industries and tech or others. In first category being
| frugal and efficient makes lot of difference in long run. And
| in the later signalling has lot of value specially when VC is
| involved, but also later.
| laundryfolding wrote:
| There's certainly a cultural divide between industries, but I
| don't see frugality showing up in the discrepancies. I don't
| live in the Bay Area, and most people in my sphere of
| acquaintances who live on the middle-class+ plane aren't
| getting paid to write software (or trying to) let alone
| chasing VC money, and none of the people that I interact with
| most frequently are. (Anecdotally, the software people
| actually seem more willing to voice positions that align with
| frugality. Developers are notorious for not wanting to pay
| for tools, for example.)
| pard68 wrote:
| My roommate through all of college was a man from Taiwan. We were
| and still are good friends. He started dating a girl from Japan
| around our Sophomore year and the next thing I knew our room was
| full of cases of canned coffee.
|
| Turns out the girl's father had tried to start up an export
| business shipping cans of coffee to the US. Didn't work, but my
| roommate loved it so his girlfriend off-loaded all of it on him,
| after her father had done the same to her.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| This would probably work now... hot canned coffee in airports,
| specifically, as the Starbucks are always backed up and never
| open for the very early or very late flights. I would target
| the major international airports first.
|
| Also my kid is really into Ramune as a soda. Even our almost
| "rural" edge of the metro supermarket is carrying it.
| version_five wrote:
| I think airports work on a concession model where companies
| essentially bid to get a spot there, like a mall food court.
| So the business model is to get a monopoly and then sell
| overpriced crap, which doesn't lend itself to innovation and
| makes the market hard to break in to.
|
| I agree it would be awesome to be able to get it at the
| airport.
| blamazon wrote:
| This is changing, slowly - airport leaders today recognize
| the value of innovation for customer experience and are
| making moves where possible to back out of such models,
| plus welcoming local business, although the difficulties of
| operating in an airport environment does still lend the
| environment to larger players, or smaller ones operating
| through a middleman. KATL and KMSP are two that come to
| mind for me. Entrepeneurs should definitely consider
| reaching out to airports that are locally managed - often
| their hands are tied due to contracts, but those will time
| out someday.
| jmuguy wrote:
| Getting hot coffee and tea out of a vending machine when it's
| cold out is one of the best experiences of visiting Japan.
| Particularly since the machines are everywhere.
| aliasxneo wrote:
| Yes! I was first introduced to this during a cold January while
| having to stand watch in the port (ex-U.S. Navy). The highlight
| of my morning was that warm can dropping down and warming up my
| hands for the next ~30 minutes.
| spike021 wrote:
| Went to Mt. Moiwa in Sapporo back in Feb 2019, at night. It was
| super cold (to me as a Californian). Maybe 20's or 30-ish F.
|
| Nothing like going inside the observatory at the top and
| grabbing a piping hot bottle of Royal Milk Tea from a vending
| machine.
| manojlds wrote:
| How is it different from, say, a Costa Express machine?
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| In Australia they are making barista coffee machines that make
| reasonable good Lattes! (and definitely better than
| starbuccks). I think it was Coles "Urban Coffee". Not as
| amazing as a light roast single O from a coffee obsessed cafe.
| But better than a lot of coffee shops!
| esfandia wrote:
| In Thailand they have these Tao Bin barista coffee machines:
| https://www.tao-bin.com/en/en
|
| Great UI: there's a countdown to when your order is going to
| be ready, and while you're waiting the next person can also
| enter their order.
| kleiba wrote:
| I'm going against the grain here but I don't really subscribe
| to the starbucks bashing that seems to be a common sport. I
| don't go to Starbucks very often at all, mostly at airports,
| but in all honesty I find there's nothing wrong with it. As
| in: I've had hand-crafted coffees made by no-nonsense
| barristas with man buns in the most artisan brick-walled
| coffee shops that you can think of and I didn't think they
| were a lot better.
|
| Maybe I'm just not enough of a purist though. But then again,
| probably most people aren't.
|
| Let's not forget what you average cup of coffee was like in
| America before Starbucks came along.
| astrange wrote:
| Most people don't encounter enough Australians to know
| this, but the #1 way to identify an Australian is their
| absurd patriotic complex about how they're the only country
| with good coffee. This universally comes with insulting
| Starbucks, which is the only non-Australian coffee they
| seem to know about.
|
| It's true that Melbourne does have good coffee, but the
| city is basically an accidental reinvention of Seattle. But
| they don't know this since they haven't been to Seattle.
|
| Generally I feel like people in the coffee production chain
| give too much credit to James Hoffman types and/or baristas
| with man buns and not any credit to the actual farmers.
| nraf wrote:
| As a Melburnian, I can second that Melbourne is coffee-
| obsessed, and Starbucks is a step up your average
| takeaway shop coffee.
|
| With that said, there's a very discernible difference in
| quality between a decent cafe coffee and a Starbucks
| coffee.
|
| My heuristic is the size of the small takeaway cup. If
| the small size is 8oz, it's almost a certainly going to
| be average.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Australia/NZ _was_ the only place with good coffee a long
| time ago but that ship has sailed, you can get great
| coffee everywhere. Also I am not so much bashing
| starbucks as using it as a yardstick to say a machine can
| make good coffee from fresh beans, which I find amazing
| kleiba wrote:
| True. As a matter of fact, almost all coffee making
| involves machines, at least when we're talking about the
| espresso variety. For years, fully automatic coffee
| makers have been a big trend even in consumer
| electronics, i.e., lots of homes have machines sitting on
| their counter top that make all kinds of coffees at the
| push of a button. Why shouldn't a vending machine be able
| to do the same...
| kleiba wrote:
| I've met many Australians, and have not experienced what
| you describe. If anything, coffee culture is a Melbourne
| thing, with Brisbane being en par. I have not heard of,
| say, Perth being especially known for their association
| with coffee drinking.
|
| As far as I know, it is thanks to immigrants from Italy
| that an admittedly good and wide-spread coffee culture
| has established in Melbourne, but I never felt that it
| stood out in how Australians perceive themselves.
| nmfisher wrote:
| Ironically, I think Perth has better coffee on average
| than Melbourne.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Sydney has coffee culture both in the city and in the
| burb. There be brick walls, long queues, single Os,
| beards, baggy clothes, Timemore scales and hairbuns
| closer to you than a rat in London.
|
| In addition to hipsterism there is ubiquity: baristas in
| petrol stations, swimming pools, dog parks, the beach,
| the pub, everywhere!
| defrost wrote:
| > I have not heard of, say, Perth being especially known
| for their association with coffee drinking.
|
| Not Perth (the capital city) no .. but definitely
| Northbridge (suburb slightly north of the city centre)
| and Fremantle (port | harbour 'city' down river from
| Perth) beacuse they've been Italian strongholds for
| decades.
|
| Both were known for coffee in the early 1980s.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| "Reinvention" my dude it's the other way around, espresso
| was big in Melbourne before it ever hit Seattle.
| astrange wrote:
| Third wave coffee isn't mainly about espresso in the US,
| that seems to be an Italian (and Australian) thing.
|
| Of course, the US has always had plenty of Italians -
| specifically in SF and NYC, where the rich ones gave us
| Nancy Pelosi and high end grocery stores, while the poor
| ones gave us all those mafia movies. I'm not sure if
| Seattle's coffee shops came from them; I always assumed
| it was just because the weather made everyone depressed.
| tomhoward wrote:
| It's fine to just like what you like! There's nothing wrong
| with being happy with Starbucks. And yes, Starbucks
| deserves a lot of credit for promoting an interest in
| better quality coffee.
|
| But a lot of what has attracted Starbucks' huge audience
| has been their very milky, sweetened, flavoured beverages
| that end up not being much of a coffee by the time they're
| consumed, and I think when people scoff at Starbucks,
| that's a big part of what they're reacting to. But I do
| think people who just have very milky coffee like cafe
| latte and flat white but then diss Starbucks are mostly
| just being snobbish.
|
| I'm from Melbourne Australia, which several people in this
| thread have commented about, and I know what people are
| talking about, both those who talk about the good coffee
| here and those who talk about the superiority complex we
| have developed about it. I can see it both ways. Starbucks
| didn't take off here, not because people thought it was
| "bad"; we just didn't need it, as people already had
| favourite cafes serving coffee they really liked, so there
| was no need to change.
|
| But the modern-day, 3rd-wave coffee snobbery thing arose a
| few years after that. On the one hand, like everything
| Melbourne claims to be better at, it can be a bit eye-
| rolly. On the other hand, my favourite coffee these days is
| long macchiato (I developed the taste for it when spending
| time in Italy and marrying into an Italian-Australian
| family), and even in Melbourne it can be hit-and-miss
| finding a cafe that does a long-mac "right"; I don't mean
| to be snobby about it, it's just about how I like it having
| developed a taste for it over several years. But it does
| make a difference that cafes here do try very hard to
| achieve very high standards in the coffee they serve, and
| people here really appreciate it.
| supportengineer wrote:
| I saw a barista robot in SFO but didn't have time to try it.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Would love to see that. In theory a robot could make
| perfect coffee, latte art, etc.
| perebas wrote:
| I wanted to live in Japan after this post LOL
| ETH_start wrote:
| I never had these hot bottled/canned beverages, despite spending
| considerable time in Tokyo's subways. I was always concerned
| about what chemicals could leach into the beverage from the
| interior of the container, with the prolonged exposure to hot
| liquid.
|
| Heat in general is not good for foodstuff, as it generally breaks
| down nutrients and creates free radicals.
| keiferski wrote:
| It's my impression that the coffee is stored cold and only
| heated up when you order it...?
| ETH_start wrote:
| I've checked and it is not stored cold. It's stored hot so it
| that it can be immediately dispensed. I'd be happy to be
| proven wrong.
| keiferski wrote:
| Interesting, yes I can see why that might be a health
| issue. But these things have been around for decades now,
| so presumably they've solved this problem.
|
| Edit: I found this:
|
| _IH vending machines
|
| This is a type of vending machine equipped with Induction
| Heating. They store canned beverages at normal room
| temperature (or lower temperature) on standby and rapidly
| heat up a selected drink during the process of dispensing.
| It is possible to raise the heat up to 140 degrees or so in
| less than one minute in the case of a 250 ml can._
|
| https://www.japanesewiki.com/culture/Canned%20Coffee.html
| ETH_start wrote:
| I have low confidence in society's ability to solve these
| kinds of problems--where the consequences only emerge
| years afterwards--in a timely manner.
|
| Interesting find on the IH vending machines. I would buy
| canned coffee from one of these.
| backendanon wrote:
| I was in Sasebo, Japan in the early 1980's and remember buying
| cold coffee in a can from a vending machine similar to buying a
| can of Coke in the States.
| anotherevan wrote:
| In the early to mid nineties I worked in Tokyo outer suburbs on
| and off for a bit - working ridiculous hours. One fond-in-
| retrospect memory is in the late evening or early AM hours going
| up to a vending machine on the train platform, getting a nice hot
| can of coffee and sticking it and my hands in my coat pockets to
| keep warm until the train got there. Then once in the heated
| carriage cracking it open and drinking it to keep me awake for
| the ride back to the hotel.
| 255kb wrote:
| Having worked in Tokyo during summer, I long for cold coffee
| cans. In Europe we can only find Starbucks cans full of sugar
| and milk :(
| biztos wrote:
| In Bangkok I sometimes grab a Boss Coffee[0] from the 7-11
| and I'm inevitably surprised by how not-bad it is.
|
| (I was thrilled to find a serious coffee culture in Thailand
| that rivals anything outside of Portland or Italy, but coffee
| at night is not a thing.)
|
| [0]: https://www.suntory.com/brands/boss/
| rmbyrro wrote:
| Didn't it ruin your sleep?
| anotherevan wrote:
| With the hours I was working at the time, no.
| geswit2x wrote:
| I'd pay to know more about that story lol
| anotherevan wrote:
| Well one time I broke a tooth. Using my little
| Japanese/English phrase book I told the concierge at my hotel
| who took me to a local dentist. The dentist whacked a
| temporary filling in and via the concierge's rudimentary
| English told me to get it fixed when I got home.
|
| The only thing he said to me directly, and with no trace of
| an accent mind you, was, "Open wide, please."
| geswit2x wrote:
| hahahahahaahah
| version_five wrote:
| In Japanese, tooth is Ha (Chi ,ha)
| [deleted]
| theelous3 wrote:
| I find it interesting that people associate italy with good
| coffee. Given their reputation there the coffee is poor. Espresso
| is typically burned quite badly and praised as strong.
|
| Northern europe, Ireland, and the UK have far better coffee. Also
| Oz. At least in my experience.
|
| Also, to briefly comment on the oz conversation happening here -
| perth does have fantastic coffee. My favourite cafe ever is a
| little place called issacs in rocko.
| grokkedit wrote:
| you're completely right. but most italians will never admit it,
| shunning all of the alternatives.
|
| the strange thing is, we are used to different grapes varieties
| that are used to produce different wines, and everyone knows
| which tomato goes in a sandwich, which ones are better in a
| caprese, which for tomato sauce. but we are all fine with not
| knowing which kind of coffee we drink, and not knowing how it
| was treated...
|
| that's why in Italy it's really rare to find someone that
| drinks coffee as it is, usually we add either sugar (or honey)
| or milk in order to mask the fact that coffee here tastes too
| burnt and bitter.
|
| only in the past few years specialty coffee is starting to
| appear in the bigger cities, and I'm finally getting used to
| drink coffee after a whole life of tea with milk and the
| occasional macchiato caldo (espresso with a dash of hot milk),
| unless when abroad
| lemper wrote:
| i tried to acquire the taste coffee and honey. never
| succeeded. though it should be noted that I used acacia honey
| which is quite acid itself. so yeah, it was a dumb exercise.
| now I got no time to explore coffee anymore. as long as the
| coffee tastes bitter and a bit sweet AND goes well with cig,
| then I'm fine with it.
| elyobo wrote:
| When I lived in Perth in 2008 the coffee was awful compared to
| NZ (and to Melbourne, where I ended up afterwards). I lived in
| Leederville and Subiaco, both with popular cafe strips, but
| broadly awful coffee.
| theelous3 wrote:
| Perth's come a long way then. I was therw for a few months
| over the oz summer. Coffee was broadly good and often great.
| It's spilled over, I suppose!
| [deleted]
| myspy wrote:
| The bean is everything and brands like Lavazza are chemically
| tasting coffee beans. Small shops and roasters with good beans
| produce better products and small shops with good baristas know
| how to extract a good cup of coffee. I guess those people are
| everywhere but hard to find.
| joshvm wrote:
| Australia and New Zealand have probably the best coffee (on
| average) of anywhere I've been, if you like milk drinks. The UK
| has a lot of fantastic coffee shops, but it's still overrun
| with Costas and a lot of places have added flat whites to their
| menu, even though they can't make them well.
| cylinder714 wrote:
| Sacramento has Chocolate Fish Coffee Roasters, founded by two
| fellows from New Zealand: https://chocolatefishcoffee.com/
| theelous3 wrote:
| Costa and insomnia should be shuttered as a public gratuity.
| Absolute muck from each at their very best.
| vjk800 wrote:
| It seems that what is considered good coffee varies greatly.
| Here in Finland the traditional way to make coffee is very
| lightly roasted, which makes it quite acidic. Many foreigners
| don't think very highly of this type of coffee, but people who
| are used to it often prefer it to "stronger" tasting medium or
| dark roasted coffees.
|
| I don't know it there's any objective way to determine which
| coffee is "good" coffee.
| speed_spread wrote:
| Nowadays Italian coffee is more about the machines and various
| methods of extraction than the beans themselves. I assume at
| some point the northeastern African connection provided Italy
| with better quality coffee than what was available in America
| but globalization and small batch roasters changed that.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| It tastes industrial, but in a good way. When you have nothing
| else and you need one now, it's decent enough
| ricardobayes wrote:
| My buddy brought me one of these from Japan, halfway across the
| world in a luggage and still tasted good. I drank it cold, never
| thought I could warm it up. Was an ok cold brew.
| sgu999 wrote:
| > The success of canned coffee rests on two pillars - cans and
| vending machines.
|
| I can think of a few more pillars: cheap energy, laziness, and
| carelessness for the environment
| night-rider wrote:
| > Pokka collaborated with a vending machine manufacturer to build
| a "hot-and-cold" vending machine which could sell both hot and
| cold beverages simultaneously
|
| How does the 'hot' thing work? Is it kept hot for long periods of
| time?
| donatj wrote:
| I drank sooo much canned coffee during my time in Japan. I really
| wish it was regularly available in the US. You can get Starbucks
| drink nonsense but I want real, decent god-fearing black coffee.
|
| You can get the Japanese stuff at Asian markets near me, and I do
| regularly, but it's not nearly as convenient as it being in
| convenience stores.
| ghaff wrote:
| You can get black cold coffee in larger containers in
| supermarkets but, yeah, in general the canned/bottled cold
| coffee you can buy is oversweetened and overmilked for my
| taste.
| amelius wrote:
| Is this iced-coffee, or is it somehow heated?
| Gunnerhead wrote:
| I remember in Japan they had both! Pretty cool.
| marklyon wrote:
| I keep Kirkland canned Cold Brew stocked in my office. We have
| great hot options at work, but not iced ones. But we do have ice.
| It's bitter, it's unsweetened, but it packs a good amount of
| caffeine and is incredibly convenient. Even took a case with me
| on a cruise.
|
| I have enjoyed UCC in the past; It's good, but I prefer my coffee
| without sugar or cream. I didn't try any of the hot canned
| options while in Japan, but did absolutely love some of the
| choices for other products I found in various vending machines.
| supportengineer wrote:
| I've consumed many cans of UCC and it always tastes like
| someone tapped a cigarette into it. Is it just me?
| hayst4ck wrote:
| I definitely think that something is very whack about about
| the Japanese canned coffees. I assumed it was some chemical
| process to get more use out of already used grounds or some
| flavor additive.
|
| Finding good coffee in Japan, particularly cold brew/dutch
| coffee, was hard for me. Finding it at a cafe that doesn't
| also allow smoking was harder.
|
| I'm still not sure if it was my lack of skill in finding
| coffee/cafes that I liked or if the coffee/coffee culture was
| different and not as good.
|
| I found Taiwan and Korea both had high quality and familiar
| coffee, at least to the US perspective. They also had very
| nice cafes. Vietnam does great coffee too, but Vietnam is
| more innovative than refined with their drinks and has a very
| distinct and unique coffee culture. In Vietnam cold brew was
| harder to find, but I didn't miss it because the other
| options were novel and great.
| eloisant wrote:
| I imagine it was a few years ago, or in country side
| because nowadays you can find a lot of good independent
| coffee shops in Tokyo or big cities.
| tkgally wrote:
| > Finding it at a cafe that doesn't also allow smoking was
| harder.
|
| As a long-time Japan resident, I had the same problem for
| many years. But smoking indoors in public places was
| finally banned nationwide in Japan effective April 2020
| [1].
|
| I don't know how effective the new rule is in bars and the
| like, but all of the cafes I've been in in recent years
| have been either completely nonsmoking or have had a
| separate, walled-off smoking room.
|
| [1] https://www.gov-
| online.go.jp/useful/article/201907/2.html
| smackeyacky wrote:
| I have never had UCC but that sounds a lot like what cheap
| instant coffee tastes like to me. Initially I thought it
| might be an auto reaction to old break rooms when people were
| allowed to smoke so I associated instant coffee with
| cigarette smoke, but I had a cold brew in a bottle the other
| day and that same sensation happened.
| raincole wrote:
| In my experience UCC's cheap instant coffee is better than
| their canned ones. To my taste of course.
| Tade0 wrote:
| > t's bitter, it's unsweetened,
|
| To me it seems like an important part of the experience. If it
| doesn't taste like death, it's not the real deal.
| nine_k wrote:
| If all you need is caffeine, there are pills, and there are
| candies. Fast and efficient.
|
| Brewed coffee has other upsides, like the flavor :)
| ac29 wrote:
| Caffeine tablets are way underrated. The equivalent of ~200
| cups of coffee in tablet form is less than $10.
|
| (and yes, I love real coffee too but it is far more expensive
| even made at home from the cheapest grocery store beans
| available)
| vladgur wrote:
| Kirkland canned cold brew is extremely bitter and tastes overly
| dark and borderline burnt to me. On other hand Trader Joe's
| canned cold brew is perfectly medium for my taste
| hayst4ck wrote:
| I think Kirkland cold brew's problem is the Colombian bean it
| uses. I remember trying a Colombian pour over and feeling a
| greater understanding about my dislike of Kirkland cold brew.
| RegularOpossum wrote:
| Agreed, that Columbian Supremo is roasted beyond what I
| would even call dark. The Kirkland signature blends are
| roasted by Starbucks so we know why those are burnt but the
| Columbian seems to be by someone else.
| CobaltFire wrote:
| I'm not sure when you were last in Japan, but I know the BOSS
| machines at least have a couple of excellent black varieties
| now.
| etrautmann wrote:
| I'm not sure I'd go as far as excellent but it can hit the
| spot under the right circumstances.
| creamyhorror wrote:
| UCC has had black unsweetened canned coffee for quite a while
| (UCC Black Wu Tang sugarless).
|
| Sugarless Japanese canned coffee tends to taste rough because
| it often includes some robusta beans, which are cheaper and
| more bitter-tasting. Which is why I prefer the less-sweet (Wei
| Tang ) variants, or with milk/creamer to balance the
| bitterness. The exceptions are the special cans advertising
| coffee from a specific country picked by some champion barista
| or other, which are better, but of course nowhere near as good
| as a freshly-brewed cup.
|
| What's different about mass-produced coffee in Japan is that it
| leans heavily towards only mildly bitter coffee, not the hard
| bitter stuff you might get elsewhere. Convenience-store
| machine-brewed coffee is almost always pleasant and easy to
| drink unsweetened, which is not the case in many other
| countries. Heck, a few years ago the 7-11s here in Singapore
| brought in 7-11 Japan's coffee machines, but the beans they use
| here are far more bitter than the ones in Japan.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| It sounds like you actually don't like them. And all the
| offices I've been at, getting hot black coffee took about as
| much work as getting ice into a cup.
|
| So why?
| hotnfresh wrote:
| Cold brew coffee is the easiest coffee to have on hand in the
| morning, and, as a bonus, so-so beans make pretty good cold
| brew.
|
| Big mason jar, one of those coke brew tea/coffee inserts for
| it that you can find on Amazon, start it about 8 hours before
| you want it (the night before) and you're golden. Add coffee,
| add water, stick in fridge overnight. It's not more work than
| the simplest methods of making hot coffee in the morning,
| short of keurig or instant coffee.
|
| Don't settle for kinda-bad premade cold brew when you could
| have kinda-OK homemade for less money and barely more work.
|
| (Incidentally, I drink my hot coffee black, but like about a
| teaspoon of heavy cream per 16-20oz of cold brew--I find all
| but the absolute best cold brew is a lot better with a little
| splash of cream)
| sogen wrote:
| Do you have a pic or a link on how to prepare it, and how
| your setup looks like?
|
| Thanks!
| mixu wrote:
| Here's my setup:
|
| - I use two large 64oz mason jars (best price via
| Walmart):
|
| https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ball-Wide-Mouth-64oz-Half-
| Gallon-...
|
| - In the past I used a metal filter from IKEA to filter
| the coffee by pouring into an empty mason jar:
|
| https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/oeverst-metal-coffee-filter-
| sta...
|
| In the past year I switched to a mason jar pouring spout
| that has a built in filter that's at the right
| granularity to filter cold brew as you pour it into a
| glass:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Tea-Spot-stainless-Comfortable-
| Pitche...
|
| That saves a bit of effort since the cold brew gets
| filtered when I pour it.
|
| As far as how I prepare it:
|
| I add a bit shy of 1/2 a cup of ground coffee per 64oz
| mason jar, mix vigorously and let it sit overnight (less
| than that and the flavors aren't quite yet there).
|
| I don't proactively filter out the coffee grinds since
| the built in filter takes care of that. When one jar
| starts to run low, I start another one.
| sogen wrote:
| Ended up doing a DIY homemade thing with a filter I had,
| will check the recommendations.
|
| Many thanks! the coffee-water ratio was going to be my
| next question.
| hotnfresh wrote:
| I use filters like these:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CB628TNX/
|
| Get cheap mason jars locally wherever, (wal mart is
| usually cheap, some grocery stores may have cheap ones),
| grounds in filter, filter in jar, add water, jar goes in
| fridge. You can also use them to make cold (or hot)
| brewed iced tea from loose leaves. There are different
| sizes of those filters for different sizes of jars. I
| like the 64oz jars.
|
| Pull the filter out when it's done to avoid
| overbrewing/oversteeping. Keeps a few days in the fridge.
|
| Recipes (grounds:water ratio, brew time) abound online.
| Pick one and try it. I like 10-12 hours with something
| like 80g of grounds, with this method, for a 64oz jar.
|
| I should get a pour spout lid for the jar, that'd never
| occurred to me and they look nice.
|
| One downside to filtering at the lid instead of in a
| basket-type filter is that you have to pour it in another
| container to stop the brew. Whether that matters depends
| on consumption patterns and personal preference.
| sogen wrote:
| > Pull the filter out when it's done to avoid
| overbrewing/oversteeping
|
| I'd never have thought about that! Thanks, appreciate it
| freetime2 wrote:
| Not the parent, but have been using on of these Hario
| cold brew coffee makers for years. Fill up the basket
| with ground coffee, add water, and let it sit in the
| fridge overnight. I agree with the parent, there is no
| need to use expensive beans for cold brew (although I do
| always grind my own beans). Black cold brew has a bit of
| a funny taste to me, but with a splash of milk it's
| delicious.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Hario-Mizudashi-Coffee-1000ml-
| Brown/d...
| sogen wrote:
| These past couple years I've been drinking my coffee
| black, will find out the taste of cold brew tomorrow!
|
| Loved the coffee maker recommendation! looks practical
| and easy to use, thanks
| e12e wrote:
| Always struck me as a weird descrepency in William Gibson's
| "Idoru":
|
| > (...) His computer there, a featureless black cube. A shallower
| shelf of the juice-carton board supported a pale blue microwave,
| unopened ramen bowls, and half a dozen tiny steel cans of coffee.
|
| > One of these, freshly microwaved, was hot in Chia's hand. The
| coffee was strong, sugary, thickly creamed. She sat beside him on
| the lumpy bed ledge, a padded jacket wadded up behind her for a
| cushion.
|
| I mean, you can't (well shouldn't) microwave a steel can, right?
| dr_hooo wrote:
| Microwaving steel isn't really a problem, as long as it is not
| just a very thin layer (can confirm)
| e12e wrote:
| A (regular) steel beverage can is pretty thin, and comes with
| sharp edges on the opener ring/tab? (I suppose the tab could
| be plastic - but they're not now)
| throw0101b wrote:
| > _I mean, you can 't (well shouldn't) microwave a steel can,
| right?_
|
| Sharp points are a problem, but one can design things to work:
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg_lqy1p6B4&t=11m20s
| mattl wrote:
| https://youtu.be/3acm7j9k_1w -- Twin Peaks cast did a Georgia
| coffee commercial
| RegularOpossum wrote:
| More classic Cooper I was unaware of!
| earthboundkid wrote:
| I still can't get the Boss jingle out of my head 20 years since
| I heard it on TV.
| michaelbuckbee wrote:
| The article mentions that seeing a collection of historical
| Japanese vending machines would be neat: there's a great episode
| of "Strange Parts" on YT that's an engineering focused visit to
| an informal Japanese vending machine museum.
|
| https://youtu.be/gzxW3B3_Pak
| WeylandYutani wrote:
| The greatest invention of mankind. Never understood why this
| didn't catch on here. Don't have to time to grab a coffee from
| Kiosk when I'm waiting for a train.
| suction wrote:
| Because the taste is not good for European palates.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| Canned cold coffee is pretty common in the UK, even small
| shops will have several brands. Never seen canned hot coffee
| though.
| NeoTar wrote:
| Back in the early 2000's (maybe 2004-2005) I remember
| buying a can of Coffee from WHSmiths which was self-heating
| - I think through some exothermic chemical reaction.
|
| It was also really bad as I recall, more like an instant
| Nescafe than something you'd get in a coffee shop. I didn't
| repeat the experience.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| > tastes the way it was supposed to taste
|
| It really isn't that great. Sure it will make do if you are
| deprived of it in a country where coffee culture is basically
| non-existent and being warm and accessible everywhere is super
| nice.
|
| But try it when you are home and it's pretty vile. I prefer
| instant one most of times (unless I wish convenient packaging
| i.e. day in the beach, etc)
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Excellent (and mediocre) canned coffee is a Japanese institution
| throw0101b wrote:
| Tommy Lee Jones has been doing commercials for Boss coffee for a
| while:
|
| > _Since 2006, Tommy Lee Jones has appeared in a series of Boss
| coffee ads. Boss is a Suntory brand of hot coffee that is sold
| canned (hot or cold). In the commercials, Jones is an alien
| visiting Japan. He always has a different job--such as train
| station employee, taxi driver, or a tanned host--as he lives in
| his new surroundings._
|
| * https://kotaku.com/this-man-loves-japan-his-name-is-tommy-le...
|
| * https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tommy+lee+jones...
| the-dude wrote:
| So I really tried : I googled and I watched the whole of 8mins
| of video.
|
| But what the hell is a _tanned host_?
| TheDong wrote:
| In the 8 minute video they link, you're looking for the
| commercial at t=179: https://youtu.be/Lv2l1JKuxxY?t=179
|
| "tanned" here is "skin-tanned", as in "tanning salon". "host"
| there is like "hostess club hostess", but male. You can read
| what "host" means on the wikipedia page about those: https://
| en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Host_and_hostess_clubs#Host_cl...
|
| Host club's hosts are often tanned, it's part of the
| stereotype. The beginning of the commercial shows him as a
| "host" (as can be seen by him being a host inside a host
| club, entertaining a woman), and the end shows him as a
| "tanned host".
| the-dude wrote:
| Thank you. The world is amazing.
| kmoser wrote:
| More interesting to me is the logo's resemblance to William
| Faulkner https://unseen-japan.com/boss-coffee-japan-history/
| m3kw9 wrote:
| I must have watched 10 of them and there was still more
| theGnuMe wrote:
| I wonder if this inspired "Men in Black" or having him in the
| movie.
| netsharc wrote:
| MiB was released (hold on to your chair) in 1997 and the ads
| are from 2006 onwards (although the clips I've seen on
| YouTube seem to be VHS rips).. so, no?
| mraza007 wrote:
| This reminds me of hotshot coffee from sharktank.
|
| I remember trying that coffee at NYU hackathon and actually
| meeting the guy who pitched that idea at sharktank
| ggm wrote:
| Building a vending machine to do hot and cold was a master
| stroke. There's also a niche for vending machines with a small
| microwave to heat noodles.
| nine_k wrote:
| We should check if these already exist in Japan and / or Korea.
| They are big on street vending.
| ta988 wrote:
| They exist for pizzas in Europe.
| Nursie wrote:
| I had a "pizza" out of one of these things in the UK. Very,
| very bland. Sorta like a really cheap pitta bread with
| cheese on top.
|
| I was pretty drunk so it didn't matter, and it was fun to
| watch it mix flour and water to a dough, top it with sauce,
| cheese and pepperoni, then cook it in a matter of seconds.
|
| But in the end there's a reason we don't usually go from
| flour-> eating in under 5 minutes!
| eloisant wrote:
| If you want easy pizza, don't care too much about the
| taste and don't want to pay for delivery (or it's not
| available in your area), just buy a few frozen pizza. You
| can keep them for months in your freezer.
|
| It's not great but still way better than vending machine
| pizza.
| Nursie wrote:
| My freezer and oven weren't on the way back between the
| pub and my house :)
|
| We always keep a couple in the freezer for especially
| lazy days, but this was a one-off drunken "ooh, shiny?
| Also melted cheese..." moment.
| bbarnett wrote:
| I tried a whole bunch from the grocery store, and focused
| on finding one with the best crust. I then:
|
| * only buy 3 or 4 meat pizzas
|
| * add some cayene and mustard seasoning
|
| * add my own fresh veggies
|
| This fixes the bland, and meat seems to freeze well,
| veggies not so much.
|
| And it takes 5 or 10 for the oven to warm, so cutting up
| some onion, maybe a green pepper passes the time.
|
| Anyhow, I find this method very palatable.
|
| --
|
| As a side note, any kind of meat, especily pork, is
| really improved with mustard powder when cooking.
| ido wrote:
| If the problem was that it's bland wouldn't simply
| seasoning better solve it?
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| We have ones selling live worms (fishing bait) in Lithuania
| numpad0 wrote:
| That always existed at small scales but there is now an SV
| startup is doing that(in Japan too!)[2]
|
| 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3rGPXXk8VE&t=105s
|
| 2: https://www.yokaiexpress.com/location
| hokumguru wrote:
| Perhaps my favorite small channel on YouTube is an indie
| musician who travels through rural Japan to visit noodle
| vending machines, accompanied by his own smooth elevator jazz.
| The vibes are out of this world.
|
| https://youtube.com/@onsenjazz?si=IgB0LTclAFeVY4TN
| ricardobayes wrote:
| Only Japan can pull it off. In Europe I pretty much never
| used vending machines as they are so gross and dirty. Even in
| "clean" countries like Austria or Germany they are like that.
| eloisant wrote:
| Vending machine are pretty common in France and not gross
| at all.
|
| It's nowhere near as common as in Japan but you will often
| find them in train stations or highway rest areas.
| wingerlang wrote:
| Thailand (well, Bangkok) has had quite a lot of vending
| machines pop up over the last couple of years. Some in
| malls, but especially within condos.
| ghaff wrote:
| The US has had vending machines for cold soda and snacks
| forever. Though, without looking up numbers, there's
| probably been a general trend towards convenience stores
| and fast food over time. Certainly the vending machines in
| Japan are more ubiquitous than I think I've seen anywhere
| else.
| Roark66 wrote:
| That's a surprise to me. Having lived and travelled across
| Eastern, Central and Western Europe a lot I never
| considered vending machines gross. The first vending
| machine I ever saw must have been a coca cola (or pepsi)
| vending machine in my primary school 30+ years ago. Then my
| high school too had a coca cola vending machine and then
| they were everywhere.
|
| As they became more popular I started seeing them on
| gas/petrol stations, rail stations and many other places.
|
| However, the kind of machines I talk about always dispense
| cold cans, sweets, crisps, sometimes packaged yoghurt, but
| never hot stuff.
|
| Any time I encounter a hot vending machine they are always
| within some establishment like a gas station where you're
| supposed to pay first, you get a cup and then you go to the
| vending machine. The staff of the place is responsible for
| keeping it clean. However in busy places sometimes there is
| trash around them (people dropping sugar packets on the
| floor etc). So perhaps you meant this kind.
| blowski wrote:
| Yes, when I think of how dirty the microwaves are in shared
| houses, the idea of a public microwave doesn't appeal.
| astrange wrote:
| Is this why Sweden has those giant microwave banks?
|
| https://x.com/yannseznec/status/1492105643649601552
|
| (I don't even want to tell you about the tvattstuga. It's
| better you don't know.)
| bafe wrote:
| I guess is the equivalent of Waschkuche in Switzerland? A
| most hated institution which fortunately is slowly dying
| out
| Too wrote:
| Nothing to do with cleanliness, on the contrary they can
| be quite gross also. It's because eating lunch out is
| relatively expensive, especially for students. Close to
| 13EUR now after last years inflation craze, whereas
| cooking at home is more like 2EUR. It's not uncommon to
| see even well paid white collar workers bring food boxes
| regularly.
| ghaff wrote:
| Bringing lunches to work used to be a much more common
| meme in the US. (But maybe it still is among blue collar
| workers.) Does seem to have faded out a lot though.
| keiferski wrote:
| Europe tolerates graffiti and de-beautification of public
| areas too much for quirky complicated things like these to
| work, unfortunately.
| rustybolt wrote:
| What exactly is gross and dirty about them? I have never
| thought about them that way (but I don't use them because
| they generally only have overpriced unhealthy crap).
| schroeding wrote:
| It's very hit-or-miss in my experience. Some vending
| machines are immaculate, but the exact same type of
| machine by the same owner e.g. at another station can
| have their glass broken, have chewing gum put into it's
| mechanism for weeks, mystery liquids in the output, etc.
|
| Anecdata, but a vending machine at the local rapid
| transit station (one of those two-sided hot drinks /
| soups and snacks combo machines) had its output chute
| filled with (very visible and smellable, probably human)
| feces for a week after(!) calling the service number and
| only then the owner cleaned it. Mhhh. Didn't inspire
| confidence in their general cleaning routine, for me.
|
| I have no idea how our machines stack up against the ones
| from Japan or other parts of the world in the vandalism
| department, though, in practise and outside of city
| centres. They might face similar problems, I don't know.
| rwmj wrote:
| Basically never vandalised (and always maintained, filled
| and working) even in the most isolated and rural places
| in Japan. I actually wonder about the economics of
| keeping a vending machine filled in some of the places
| I've been. How is it possible to have people driving
| miles to refill them and still make money.
| bbarnett wrote:
| Maybe 3G notification if the machine is borked?
|
| Alternatively, if a company operates for decades, they
| can make a very, very stable product. Only bugfixes. I'd
| imagine some of these vending machines are manufactured
| like that.
|
| Which means, a weekly drive by is enough to inspect,
| refill, drive on. I used to deliver meats to very rural
| locations, 10 deliveries over a 300+ km circular route
| from/back to the packing plant. At 80km/hr, the stops are
| the big slowdown.
|
| Another way to think of it, is that remote often means
| little traffic, fewer stop signs, and higher speed
| limits.
|
| I live 8km from a large city. It's often far faster for
| me to drive 15km to a corner store in a small nearby
| town, because I can do 120km/hr the whole way there
| almost, on my rural road, with no stop signs or lights.
|
| Drive to the city, there are 5 stop lights before the
| first corner store, that's each way, so chances are high
| to hit a light. And even one light is 2 or 3 minutes
| delay.
|
| So rural servicing and deliveries can be quite fast and
| efficient.
| nmfisher wrote:
| Singapore has them too. Never eaten from them so I don't
| know what the food quality is like, but they're never
| busted or filthy like you'd see in Australia.
|
| You can have a lot of nice things when you have a
| government (and a society) committed to law and order.
| Renaud wrote:
| Clean and sterile.
| nikau wrote:
| Even better it just uses the waste heat from the cooling heat
| pump so it doesn't cost any extra to run
| ballenf wrote:
| Total tangent, but why don't homes use these ideas broadly?
| We have refrigerators, A/C and hot water heaters all in close
| proximity. Not to mention cool water. Would it really be so
| hard to get some of the waste heat or cool from those
| processes into the others?
| ghaff wrote:
| >We have refrigerators, A/C and hot water heaters all in
| close proximity.
|
| Maybe yes maybe no. My water heater is in the basement and
| I don't have AC. It would all have to be very house-
| specific and customized. And it would tie together what
| would otherwise be independent systems. A lot of complexity
| which is usually a bad thing especially at small scale.
| arrow7000 wrote:
| Oh that's genius
| twobitshifter wrote:
| Are people aware of automats? They seem very cool nowadays but
| fell out of favor. Hot food from vending machines was a thing
| before it wasn't a thing.
| https://allthatsinteresting.com/automat
| ehnto wrote:
| There's a channel on YouTube that explores some of these, they
| are so cleverly simple in some respects. Conveyers, servos,
| more mechanical than digital. But while some machines do all
| the work, there are also machines that get stocked daily with
| freshly cooked food that gets kept warm. Just in general,
| keeping all the machines stocked is likely a massive effort.
|
| If I had to take a jab at the core difference between Japan and
| other countries, and why this stuff works there; Logistics
| prowess and manpower. Organised and affordable employees may be
| another way to word that.
| ljm wrote:
| One specific childhood memory in the UK is going to a public
| swimming pool and getting hot chicken soup from a vending
| machine as if it was a drink just like anything else.
|
| I miss swimming pool chicken soup.
| bbarnett wrote:
| Fun fact! The entire experience was a trial in
| sustainability, the water for the soup came, filtered, from
| the pool, and of course the pool contained a lot of soup,
| filtered, by human kidneys.
|
| A closed loop of beauty and perfection.
| vjk800 wrote:
| Why the hell isn't this used for more stuff. Like you could
| have a vending machine for hot pizza or lasagne or something.
| ghaff wrote:
| Food safety would probably be a nightmare and sounds totally
| disgusting. Automats did used to be a thing in some US cities
| but they pretty much gave way to fast food
| restaurants/convenience stores as we know them today.
| williamdclt wrote:
| Pizza vending machine are a thing, there's a few here and
| there in France
| suction wrote:
| [dead]
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