[HN Gopher] It's My Monitor
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       It's My Monitor
        
       Author : pabs3
       Score  : 175 points
       Date   : 2023-09-09 10:52 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (popey.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (popey.com)
        
       | Const-me wrote:
       | I believe that providing technical support is a crucial skill for
       | a developer.
       | 
       | If someone cannot assist a single user in resolving their issue,
       | I question their ability to create effective documentation that
       | reduces the occurrence of perplexing problems for inexperienced
       | users. Furthermore, they are less likely to design a user
       | experience (UX) that tries to avoid unnecessary complications and
       | strange issues.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | Depending on how large the organization is, software developers
         | may not be doing any documenting or UX designing.
        
       | svilen_dobrev wrote:
       | 199x.. a friend is working as support technician of some highly-
       | reliable-and prohibitely-expensive boxes. One day some lady from
       | Big-corp-xyz rings, and says that her box would restart
       | occasionaly. Whut? Taking all the machinery for diagnostics, he
       | goes there. Takes box out, Opens it, plugs the cables, ... a
       | hour+ later, nothing. The thing works as expected and no amount
       | of fiddling around would make it restart by itself. He puts it
       | back at its place under the desk.
       | 
       | - You sure this.. restarts?
       | 
       | - Of course, happened twice today
       | 
       | - Huh? Can you show how it happens?
       | 
       | She sits on the chair, start typing some document, crosses her
       | legs and starts shaking the upper one. And, after a while, hits
       | the reset button with nose of her shoe.
       | 
       | - You see? Just restared, i could not even finish the letter..
       | 
       | - Ahhhh. Okay. The.. location of the box is causing some..
       | intereference. Moving it.
       | 
       | He moves the box to the other side of desk, where no legs can
       | reach.. and that's it.
        
         | soks86 wrote:
         | Brilliant. They could advise the highest courts and not lose
         | his head with those kinds of moves.
        
       | ooterness wrote:
       | I worked tech support for a while. My favorite monitor-related
       | story goes like this:
       | 
       | User calls, says his PC stopped turning on. I arrive, ask him to
       | demonstrate the problem.
       | 
       | Screen is black. He presses the power button on the PC and the
       | one on the monitor. Wait a minute. Screen is still black. Try
       | both buttons again, just for good measure, screen is still black.
       | 
       | Turns out the monitor was on but the PC was off.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | The distinction between the PC being off and the monitor being
         | off is one that is still lost on people, and it's
         | understandable. End users should not have to separate these
         | things in their minds. Why would you want one off but the other
         | on, besides use cases that HN commenters will surely list that
         | are only relevant to power users? Just have one fucking power
         | switch.
         | 
         | Apple has largely solved this with their external displays, and
         | the laptop industry has also solved this. Yet the PC world is
         | still full of monitors with separate power switches that just
         | confuse.
        
           | simoncion wrote:
           | > Why would you want one off but the other on, besides use
           | cases that HN commenters will surely list that are only
           | relevant to power users?
           | 
           | I like having my monitor off because of this one weird quirk
           | that OSX seems to have. Specifically, the machine unfailingly
           | wakes itself up from sleep every ~60 minutes to do
           | _something_ , and then puts itself back to sleep shortly
           | thereafter.
           | 
           | When I'm trying to put _myself_ to sleep (and keep myself
           | asleep), I don't want a bright-ass monitor briefly blazing
           | across my room for no good goddamn reason.
        
             | jamiek88 wrote:
             | Hmmm. That sounds like a bug. That's not expected behavior
             | and doesn't happen to me. Are you hdmi or DisplayPort?
        
               | tigen wrote:
               | It's not uncommon to want to shut off the display
               | independently while a machine works on stuff. It seems
               | with Macs you can learn to invoke that easily in the OS
               | but it's probably not "discoverable" at all.
               | 
               | Meanwhile, displays with indepdent power buttons have
               | been around since decades ago and still tend to work that
               | way with typical TV/media setups. Although that was
               | always unergonomic and we now have semi-reliable HDMI
               | fixes.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | > It seems with Macs you can learn to invoke that easily
               | in the OS but it's probably not "discoverable" at all.
               | 
               | Apple menu -> Lock Screen, and the display will shut off
               | after a few minutes of inactivity on the lock screen or
               | by pressing the Escape key.
        
       | xyzelement wrote:
       | Obviously the partner is the jerk in the story but "Oh, we threw
       | most of them away" and "I could just say 'fuck you' and walk out"
       | aren't hallmarks of great support and probably contributed to the
       | escalation of what started as a simple request for a manual.
       | 
       | It took John (the protagonist's boss' boss) to calm the user and
       | put them on track to express their real concern and having it
       | resolved.
        
         | simoncion wrote:
         | > ..."Oh, we threw most of them away" and "I could just say
         | 'fuck you' and walk out" aren't hallmarks of great support...
         | 
         | Eh? Addressing your first point, the guy asked:
         | 
         | > I just got this monitor, where's the manual?
         | 
         | Which was honestly and directly answered with "We threw most of
         | them away. We have hundreds of monitors and no need of all the
         | manuals.".
         | 
         | The next statement out of the guy's mouth _should_ have been
         | "I need a copy of the manual.", which the support fellow
         | answers with "I'll run back and get one for you. I'll be back
         | in a jiffy.". Instead, the guy flips the fuck out in the middle
         | of the explanation.
         | 
         | One might even imagine that had the guy not flipped the fuck
         | out, the words "I can go get a copy if you like." would have
         | rapidly followed the completion of the "How Things Are and Why
         | They Are That Way" explanation. [0]
         | 
         | Addressing your second point... from the fine article:
         | 
         | > "Part of me thought, "I am a contractor here. I could just
         | say 'fuck you' and walk out", but I stood and took it."
         | 
         | The fellow who just flipped the fuck out is absolutely not a
         | mind-reader. Even if he _was_ , he flipped the fuck out before
         | this thought entered the support guy's head... so the guy would
         | have to be a time-traveler for this thought to have triggered
         | his tantrum.
         | 
         | [0] As someone who both does support, and has periodic need of
         | support assistance, the "How Things Are, Why They Are That Way,
         | and What I (as a support guy) Can Do About It" style of
         | conversation is my absolute favorite. It's clear, to-the-point,
         | and informative.
        
         | VincentEvans wrote:
         | John was the partner's peer, also partner level, which is why
         | the conversation quickly returned to civility.
        
       | sanitycheck wrote:
       | I've seen deranged full-volume yelling for minutes on end,
       | laptops being smashed into bits on desks, and a full on punch-up
       | between middle aged men in nice suits in a fancy office.
       | 
       | This story seems a little tame, honestly.
        
         | popey wrote:
         | It was only my first experience of it, to be fair :D
        
       | matheusmoreira wrote:
       | As someone who reads and keeps every instruction manual, I
       | understand where the customer is coming from. I don't think the
       | abuse is warranted but I understand.
        
         | influx wrote:
         | Agreed, obviously doesn't merit yelling at the tech, but they
         | could have taped the manual to the monitor for those who wanted
         | it.
        
       | moron4hire wrote:
       | Established accounting firm and shouty partners. This was
       | Deloitte, wasn't it?
        
         | kjs3 wrote:
         | I can assure you that Deloitte has absolutely zero exclusivity
         | to that description.
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | Yeah, it was just the large accounting firm where _I_ got
           | shouted at for no reason by a partner.
        
       | firefoxd wrote:
       | When I was 11, i was the official tech support in the embassy of
       | X in Y... (too embarrassing). The secretary had to redesign the
       | template for official documents every day. No two documents ever
       | looked the same. At least once a week the computer failed to boot
       | and I had to reinstall win 95.
       | 
       | One evening I stayed in the office until the end of the day,
       | teaching her formatting tricks in office 97. When we were done,
       | she didn't save the file. Instead, she reached for the wall and
       | yanked the power cable. She gathered her purse, handed me 5
       | (currency). She didn't understand the concept of saving files, or
       | shutting down.
        
         | andai wrote:
         | Maybe she grew up with a Canon Cat!
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | If she started on DOS, there was no concept of "shutting down."
         | At the end of the day you just flipped the big red paddle
         | switch on the side or front of the PC case.
         | 
         | Not saving? If she learned her secretarial duties using a
         | typewriter, there was no saving. Once the document was scrolled
         | out of the typewriter, that page was done. I could see someone
         | like that using the computer the same way. Type the letter or
         | document, print it, done.
        
           | johnchristopher wrote:
           | > If she started on DOS, there was no concept of "shutting
           | down." At the end of the day you just flipped the big red
           | paddle switch on the side or front of the PC case.
           | 
           | But... but... I diligently parked the disk every time !
        
           | Modified3019 wrote:
           | I just want to say this post is amazing at giving plausible
           | context to otherwise baffling behavior, thanks
           | 
           | A story I have is the time my father had set up a computer
           | for my Grandma (Grandpa was very much a "no computers in the
           | house" person until he passed) to give her something to do
           | and people to take to. Naturally this means he had
           | volunteered to become "tech support".
           | 
           | Early on there he was trying to help Grandma over the phone
           | because for some reason no letters were showing up when
           | typing on the keyboard. After an agonizing 45 minutes trying
           | to figure out what was going on, he finally asks her to move
           | the mouse to the box she wants to type in, click it, and then
           | type. It worked! Turns out we took for granted the concept of
           | input focus.
        
       | baz00 wrote:
       | This does not surprise me in the slightest. I got a whole
       | diatribe and stream of insults when a user complained that we'd
       | epoxied the USB holes in his desktop PC because he couldn't bring
       | his music in on a USB stick.
       | 
       | This was an airgapped network in a defence installation. They
       | weren't even allowed to bring in any personal possessions.
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | I had an employer who stuck with NT4 into the late 00's
         | primarily because it didn't support USB for this security
         | scenario. Our PCs had the ports but they were effectively
         | useless.
        
         | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
         | I recommend joining a local choral group. Singing your own
         | music can definitely quell the desire to amass and carry around
         | gobs of pre-recorded crap.
        
           | baz00 wrote:
           | I play the piano. That does it for me :)
        
             | block_dagger wrote:
             | Me too but I still love listening to gobs of music on
             | Spotify.
        
           | jamiek88 wrote:
           | Ugh. You're one of those choral members looking down their
           | noses at 'popular music'.
           | 
           | One of the many reasons I left and the groups fail to attract
           | new members.
        
             | thereticent wrote:
             | GP was being sarcastic, right? And you, too, right?
        
               | baz00 wrote:
               | He's just damaged by that lot. I had an ex girlfriend who
               | was one of them.
               | 
               | I annoyed her by playing black metal all the time
               | instead.
        
       | steveBK123 wrote:
       | I've not worked in tech support exactly, but dev on internal apps
       | that we also run the ops for.
       | 
       | These types of users beyond the morals/niceness issue just seem
       | plain stupid.
       | 
       | The most intelligent manipulative users I observed were the ones
       | who do the exact opposite - chew out the boss regularly, but are
       | absolute saints to the lower level "doers".
       | 
       | They engender good will with the people actually doing the ops
       | work, often end up getting them to go the extra mile. Plus they
       | shell shock the boss enough that the ops people are given the
       | priority to work on their issues.
        
         | em-bee wrote:
         | _chew out the boss regularly, but are absolute saints to the
         | lower level "doers"._
         | 
         | i don't think that is manipulative, unless it is extreme. this
         | is the behavior that you want. treat your subordinates with
         | respect and move problems that you can't fix on your own up the
         | chain.
         | 
         | the thing is, if every level works that way then you don't
         | usually need to chew out your boss, nor need your subordinates
         | chew out you.
        
         | matanyall wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | billybuckwheat wrote:
       | You can be sure that partner, even if he had the monitor's user
       | manual, wouldn't have read it. He would have immediately called
       | support to send someone up to explain all the buttons and whatnot
       | to him.
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | people don't admit they're wrong or apologize1
       | 
       | [1] statistically
        
       | ankaAr wrote:
       | In the 90's my dad had a tech support/service company. Small one,
       | less than 10 employees. Fixing monitors was an every day task.
       | 
       | One day a petroleum engineer came with his monitor (from the
       | company he was working) to fix it.
       | 
       | After 1 or 2 days it was fixed and they came to get it back.
       | 
       | After few hours the engineer called very angry.
       | 
       | -it is not my monitor!
       | 
       | -oh, it cannot be
       | 
       | -it is not!
       | 
       | -is this brand and model?
       | 
       | -yes
       | 
       | -read me the service tag at the back
       | 
       | -this
       | 
       | -it is your monitor sir.
       | 
       | -is not and I want my monitor back
       | 
       | -sir, it is your monitor
       | 
       | -no!
       | 
       | So he came back with his monitor. It was his monitor, the
       | technicians tested it again.
       | 
       | -sir, this is your monitor.
       | 
       | -no, I had a completely different background, and different
       | programs, it is not my monitor
       | 
       | -wait, what?
       | 
       | The technicians called the it department and told them the
       | situation.
       | 
       | While the monitor was in service, IT used that free time to
       | update his computer.
       | 
       | The engineer leave my dad's place not 100% convinced
       | 
       | If you are that engineer, the story is still alive 25 years
       | later. Thank you.
        
         | prox wrote:
         | Ah what a great story, reminds me of the webguy vs salesdude
         | video. If you don't know what that is, look it up :)
        
           | BogdanPetre wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGljemfwUE
        
             | streakfix wrote:
             | Psyonix implemented the vehicles in original Halo game
             | after which they made supersonic acrobatic rocket powered
             | battle cars followed by rocket league.
        
           | folmar wrote:
           | I think the first part of the title is more recognizable,
           | i.e. "The Website is Down".
        
         | Loggias wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | johnchristopher wrote:
         | I don't understand how these people got their degree or keep up
         | with the times while being so... arrogant ? sure of themselves
         | ?
         | 
         | What other important things do they not get ? Or is it just
         | computer stuff ?
        
           | f1shy wrote:
           | I know PhD in technical areas, that still today could male
           | such scene
        
       | helpfulContrib wrote:
       | It is 1989. I'm a newly minted ops whelp, granted the task of
       | maintaining the thousands of miles of RS232 spread around the
       | campus of this particular establishment, about 2000 terminals in
       | all. Lots and lots of terminal boards, lots and lots of tone
       | debugging in the wee hours.
       | 
       | My boss calls me in, tells me I'm getting upgraded to the PC
       | team. PC's are these new-fangled terminals that we will,
       | eventually, get everyone switched over to .. but first we start
       | with the execs. Take their terminals, set up their new PC's, get
       | them logged in for the first time.
       | 
       | I proceed to the nastiest exec first - even then, I knew one had
       | to solve the gnarly problems first - as there'd be hell if some
       | other underling got the upgrade first, of course. At least, I
       | thought.
       | 
       | 20 minutes of burned fingers amid measured cussing at the prior
       | install teams lack of proper stripping methodology, and I get the
       | PC booted up, the TERM.EXE started, and everything configured to
       | take over the old Hazeltines job, which sits by the door ready to
       | be carted away into an amber fugue ..
       | 
       | In comes Mr. Nasty Exec, who immediately recoils at the PC blob
       | on his desk. "What's that? I'm not getting that yet. Do everyone
       | else first!"
       | 
       | Oh, crap, I'd already sort of changed the connectors.
       | 
       | Under the desk I go, off he storms across the barren cubical
       | wasteland, his hoffs and guffaws somehow visible in the khaki
       | haze.
       | 
       | Alright, I get it all re-Hazeltined, PC sits on the cart. What to
       | do...
       | 
       | In comes Mr Nasty, who has by now seen what the new PC can do. "I
       | want both the old and the new, you can do that can't you Computer
       | Genius Kid?"
       | 
       | Meh.
       | 
       | Always get your boss involved when the work order changes, kids.
        
         | swah wrote:
         | That was a good idea - did he get both?
        
           | helpfulContrib wrote:
           | The whole point of the PC ugprade was so that we could stop
           | draping wire everywhere we wanted a terminal to go, and just
           | use 10Base-T, i.e. "one cable to rule them all" (lol,
           | kthxbai...)
           | 
           | So yes, he did get both, but it did require me to pull one
           | last strand of RS232 a week before we had to do it all again
           | for the 10Base-T, and my manager was not amused at how I'd
           | multiplied the work for myself; and especially wasn't stunned
           | by my smart-ass quip that, "if only he'd demo'ed the PC thing
           | to Mr. Nasty Exec in the first place, things would've gone
           | smoo .. oh, okay, I'll be on my way to pull that last strand,
           | then .."
           | 
           | Yeah, wasn't really a great idea, it was only a week later
           | that I saw that old Hazeltine, forlorn once again, sitting on
           | the cart to be carried away.. oh how I wish I'd kept a few of
           | those, myself ..
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | Nice story. I feel, there are times for taking initiative,
         | being a go-getter. Then there are times when work is work, and
         | if anything l, you train your fine motor skills and be content
         | with that.
        
           | helpfulContrib wrote:
           | >fine motor skills
           | 
           | I've got muscle-memory for DB9 and DB25, I can twist pairs
           | for RJ45 in my dawn hours, I have scars with many more tales
           | behind them, but I'm so happy to have put it all behind me
           | now ... ;)
           | 
           | (Now I'm the grumpy guy who doesn't wanna change web
           | frameworks every gronk season..)
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | BTW it's a DE-9 not a DB -- the "B" shell is a much larger
             | lozenge with room for 25 pins (of 1960s scale).
             | 
             | The VGA connector is also a E shell, thus DE-15.
             | 
             | Of course, as you probably remember well, usually we'd only
             | wire up three wires, but nobody called them DE-3!
        
               | helpfulContrib wrote:
               | Hmm, I dunno:
               | 
               | https://www.eltima.com/article/9-pin-serial-port.html
               | 
               | We had DB9 and DB25 offices. Eventually it all became
               | Ethernet, and the coax era began ..
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | The very first sentence of that link says just what I
               | said: "The RS232C DE-9, often mistakenly referred to as a
               | DB-9..."
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
               | 
               | If you were doing this during the Ethernet transition (to
               | thinnet) you probably remember the AUIs also had DE
               | connectors though I don't remember how many pins --
               | perhaps a dozen.
        
       | korijn wrote:
       | I guess the thing that stands out to me is that this story shows
       | the value of managers. John is obviously more experienced in
       | dealing with emotional people (we are all that person sometimes).
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | Or maybe the angry partner only listened to John because he is
         | also a partner. There was probably nothing the author could
         | have said to placate him, being a lowly tech in the unfortunate
         | position of having to tell a partner something they didn't want
         | to hear. But hearing the same explanation from someone he
         | considered a peer was apparently enough to satisfy him.
         | 
         | In other words, this shows the importance of titles.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Another possibility. This happens alot. The partner gets one of
         | these calls a week and has become ept at handling it.
        
         | lambdaba wrote:
         | I was expecting this to be the conclusion at first, this
         | ability to empathize and stay calm regardless of the other
         | person's demeanor is a superpower.
        
       | opengears wrote:
       | I do not fully get it. So because the support person was able to
       | explain the contents of the monitor manual the angry client was
       | calmed?
        
         | robinduckett wrote:
         | No, probably because the bossman the "partner" rang up told him
         | to calm down and that it wasn't worth his job to scream at
         | contractors.
        
         | Lacerda69 wrote:
         | customers huh? can't live with em can't live without them
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | Emotions eh!
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | > I had no idea at the time that people in the workplace would
         | or could speak to co-workers like that and not apologise. It
         | was enlightening!
         | 
         | This was the main takeaway for me.
        
           | chrisco255 wrote:
           | I think this type of abusive behavior used to be way more
           | common in all work places.
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | I was a techie for 25 years and my response to this story would
       | be predictable - combination of chuckle, sympathy, and outrage.
       | And I still feel all of those.
       | 
       | But now I've been in the management/client-facing role for a
       | while, and my burning question is: 1. WHAT did the person say
       | over the phone to calm them down? 2. Could the author of the
       | article have said it with same results? Because I'm learning that
       | as much fun as it is to understand and hack computers, it's also
       | fun to understand and 'hack' people (something all my mentors
       | have been telling me for 20 years but I've only recently been
       | able to hear).
       | 
       | For example (and the fun here is in guessing and hypothesizing:)
       | -- rather than listening to tirade, could the author have said
       | something like _" Oh, we have found it is far less efficient for
       | partner level people to go through obscure manuals themselves; my
       | team and I have gone through them and I can give you a customized
       | review of the key features relevant to you that will be far more
       | respectful of your and companies' time"_ ?
       | 
       | (is it cheeky? Of course! Winning question is would it accomplish
       | the same or similar result? _Was_ there a winning game strategy
       | for author _other_ than escalating?)
        
         | seer wrote:
         | An angry neighbor rings on our "apartment turned office" door -
         | we were an early stage startup.
         | 
         | The guy is red faced, shouting profusely how someone had parked
         | at his designated spot AGAIN. This goes on a while, until I
         | understand what's going on - I parked at his place, as I
         | thought we were entitled to it from the apartment, apparently
         | in error.
         | 
         | Well the guy was expecting to meet resistance I guess, he was
         | all geared up for a confrontation.
         | 
         | I immediately apologized said that I didn't know (which was
         | true) and will not happen again.
         | 
         | The guy relaxed like magic, just calmed down immediately. And
         | then started apologizing to me, and telling how "its alright
         | from time to time" etc.
         | 
         | It was really bizarre transformation to witness. I attributed
         | it to balkan culture generally being confrontational, so that
         | when I just apologized, the situation the guy ended up at was
         | not one he expected and he had to actually rethink his
         | position. Or something like that.
         | 
         | And this is a pattern I've used in other almost violent
         | confrontations to dissolve them. If you're able to convince the
         | other party that they are actually understood, then
         | communication can happen.
        
           | ilaksh wrote:
           | That's not cultural. He was angry because he thought someone
           | was deliberately stealing his parking spot. His anger went
           | away when he found out that it was an accident and that he
           | would now be able to access his parking as much as he wanted.
           | 
           | He apologized because it turned out that his anger was not
           | actually warranted by anything.
        
           | sam_goody wrote:
           | An intersection in some real tight and twisty part of an old
           | city backed up with cars in both directions.
           | 
           | Two cars had come in and neither was willing to move to the
           | side to let the other pass. Plenty of shouting and honking
           | was going nowhere fast.
           | 
           | After twenty minutes a fellow from way down the jam got out
           | of his car and whispered to one of the drivers. "It looks
           | like the other guy is being a jerk, and I feel for you. But,
           | I need to get to my kid's birthday party, and it is really
           | important to her. Could you do me a favor and move over to
           | let us through."
           | 
           | A few minutes later and everyone was on their way.
        
             | turtleyacht wrote:
             | Reminds me of this bit:
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | So I thought about the pictures in his head. I thought
             | about what he does every day. Finally it hit me how I could
             | value him. "You know," I said conspiratorially, "between
             | you and this other car, you are the only professional
             | driver here."
             | 
             | He backed up.
             | 
             | -- Diamond, Stuart. _Getting More_ (2010)
        
           | hobs wrote:
           | In tech support circles there's a bunch of methodologies, but
           | a common one is PAIR. Probe, Analyze, Isolate, Resolve. The
           | first step is probing and gaining agreement - asking
           | meaningful questions to get to the bottom line and then
           | making sure the person understands you have understood and
           | have the right problem in mind.
           | 
           | Many people spend a significant amount of their communication
           | time failing to gain agreement on the actual problem, who was
           | at fault, and how its going to be resolved - this is basic
           | communication skills but many people are not given a
           | framework to think about it and have to go through life
           | getting screamed at, so they adopt a similar policy.
        
             | euroderf wrote:
             | This is how I try to handle a political argument with
             | someone I already know I disagree with.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | > If you're able to convince the other party that they are
           | actually understood, then communication can happen.
           | 
           | This is spot on, I think. Usually people are angry because
           | they feel that their routine has been disrupted/they're
           | frustrated/etc, and are ready to fight. If you show that you
           | understand them, sympathize, and will try to help them
           | without a fight, they relax.
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | > But now I've been in the management/client-facing role for a
         | while, and my burning question is: 1. WHAT did the person say
         | over the phone to calm them down? 2. Could the author of the
         | article have said it with same results?
         | 
         | Sometimes there is nothing the underling can do because people
         | treat others differently depending on perceived social
         | position. No matter what you say and how you say it, some
         | people will treat you badly if they think you are below them on
         | the totem pole. Think about people who berate service workers
         | and ask to Speak To The Manager, then when the manager comes
         | and says the same thing, they're mollified.
         | 
         | I've had managers tell me "Bring me along when you go talk to
         | Director ABC" because he knew Director ABC sees manager as a
         | peer and will listen, and sees me as someone beneath him.
        
         | michaelmrose wrote:
         | People have goals and perceptions going into the conversation.
         | If they want a manager they have already decided sometimes
         | before the conversation starts that the conversation with the
         | underling will not serve those ends. They go into the
         | conversation with the manager with the expectation that the
         | superior has the tools and intelligence to do the job and ergo
         | actually listen. This isn't necessarily a failing on your side
         | and it may not be something you can correct.
         | 
         | Things that work
         | 
         | - You can speak to the manager but the manager is an expert in
         | managing people I am the expert in <subject matter>. I can
         | resolve your issue.
         | 
         | - You can speak to the manager but there will be a wait of up
         | to 10 minutes and in that same time frame we could have already
         | resolved your issue.
         | 
         | - I know you want to do <impossible/illegal/crazy thing> in
         | order to achieve <end> but the <system/law/policy> wont allow
         | us to do that that way but fortunately there is another way to
         | achieve <end> and we can get started on that right now.
         | 
         | - I'm required to collect information about such issues before
         | sending it up. I'll make it quick can I ask you a few questions
         | about why you want to speak to the manager? <sympathetic
         | sounds/interjections followed by a casual insertion of the
         | obviously beneficial solution>
         | 
         | However there are plenty of cases where the thing desired is
         | the perceived importance of having someone themselves important
         | take the case as it were and you can't replicate that without
         | at least the pretense of importance. For instance when I was a
         | low level supervisor at a retail establishment I came to the
         | service desk on a number of occasions to deal with customer
         | issues knowing no more than them and not even being over their
         | area thus having LESS authority. They just wanted to jabber at
         | someone in a collared shirt.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | andrew-ld wrote:
       | I worked as an apprentice at the age of 15/16 in a store where
       | they develop software but also provide hardware support for
       | consumer devices (phones, computers, etc.), a customer asked me
       | if it was possible for me to cut off his phone battery with a
       | hacksaw because it wouldn't fit in the case
       | 
       | he was incredulous when I told him it couldn't be done and tried
       | to explain that even trying is dangerous but he didn't want to
       | give up, I hope he didn't try at home
        
       | forinti wrote:
       | I once got a dressing down for clearing someone's browser
       | history. Instead of using bookmarks, this person relied on the
       | browser's history.
        
         | Libcat99 wrote:
         | Why would you do that? I'd be upset too!
        
         | EvanAnderson wrote:
         | I can't imagine clearing somebody's browser history as part of
         | support work. Yikes.
         | 
         | At an old job, back in the 90s, a Customer demanded we fire one
         | of our young techs because he cleared the "Recycle Bin" on a PC
         | he was working on. The PC's assigned user had been storing
         | important documents there because "you can always get them
         | back".
         | 
         | That incident set the bar in my mind. Touch nothing beyond what
         | is necessary to get the job done at your peril. Don't touch
         | monitor settings, chair settings, lighting-- anything.
         | 
         | Edit: I've always used the vernacular "the PC assigned to
         | (person)" rather than "(person)'s PC" because the computer
         | belongs to the company, not the individual. As the tech it's
         | important to remember it doesn't belong to you either.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | I rely on open tabs. Firefox' search bar helpfully orders its
         | results by priority: tab-search results first, browser history
         | second, and search-engine results third. It makes a convenient
         | workflow for re-discovering things I've already found before.
         | I'm too lazy to close tabs, since new ones proliferate a lot
         | faster than I can keep up. And if I dedicate time to clearing
         | out old tabs, like a garbage-collection sweep, I waste far too
         | much time because I get sidetracked by all the "read later"
         | stuff I'd forgotten about.
         | 
         | When it goes up to several thousand open tabs, Firefox starts
         | lagging, so I switch to a fresh browser profile.
         | 
         | Once, Hacker News IP-banned me because Firefox crashed, and the
         | post-restart recovery tried to load several hundred HN tabs at
         | the same time. Firefox no longer does this; restored tabs are
         | loaded lazily, when they become foreground tabs.
        
           | euroderf wrote:
           | > the post-restart recovery tried to load several hundred HN
           | tabs at the same time. Firefox no longer does this; restored
           | tabs are loaded lazily, when they become foreground tabs.
           | 
           | I wonder if this is the problem with Safari on Mac. There is
           | some Critical Number of Tabs, beyond which it refuses to stop
           | the beachball. I have to go into Safari on iOS to delete tabs
           | from the Mac.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | when firefox started lagging because there were to many open
           | tabs, i took advantage of that lazy loading feature and
           | restarted the browser, causing all tabs except the active
           | ones to remain unloaded.
           | 
           | now i installed an extension that suspends tabs that are not
           | visited for a while. that keeps active tabs to a few dozen,
           | so i never have to restart any more because of that.
           | 
           | apparently i have more than 3700 tabs (spread over a dozen
           | windows, each window for a somewhat defined activity, which
           | should make cleaning out a bit easier, since tabs are
           | related, although i would still have to take some time off to
           | clean through all off them).
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | I disable history entirely and clear cookies and cache
         | automatically when I close the browser.
         | 
         | If I want to save something, I copy/paste the URL into a text
         | file.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | Hmm yeah sorry without context it sounds like a bit of a dick
         | move to be honest. You just assumed your way of working was
         | somehow superior.
         | 
         | I have always relied on search and "last openend" for seeing
         | what I was working on. Then some dude just deletes my winXP
         | "last used" (or whatever it was) menu item stating: you should
         | sort things in folders. Not amused I was.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | even with sorting stuff in folders, "last opened" is a
           | shortcut that saves several clicks and it helps me remember,
           | which is important to get back into the zone.
           | 
           | same goes for browser history. it's not just where i have
           | been, but also when. that gets lost with bookmarks. i
           | probably won't miss really old history entries, but that's
           | also an advantage. history eventually ages out. bookmarks
           | never age out. i'd have to delete them manually. lastly at
           | least originally visited links had a different color.
           | bookmarked links don't do that.
           | 
           | but then, i'll just keep tabs open anyways.
        
         | helpfulContrib wrote:
         | >relied on the browser's hitory
         | 
         | Hey now .. Its a perfectly cromulant way of going about
         | tracking ones interests and information needs .. especially if
         | you put the history directory in a git repo and practice good
         | repo hygiene ..
         | 
         | Another good technique is to print-to-PDF, which is like
         | boomarks on acid.
         | 
         | Of course, I'm implying intelligence where there is no evidence
         | of any, in this case, just sayin' .. ;)
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | I let Google keep track of mine and occasionally do a takeout
         | so I can search back over a decade on all the devices I use.
         | 
         | One of the first browser extensions I wrote would archive the
         | page you're looking at and create a navigable tree of your
         | browsing history with a built in search. This was like 20 years
         | ago. It's probably still somewhere, I don't even remember the
         | name.
         | 
         | Bookmarks presume I'll know the future while history presumes
         | I'll know the past. One of them is more knowable.
         | 
         | Clearing my history would be like wiping my home directory. If
         | someone did it on my behalf I'd be shocked.
        
         | rcarmo wrote:
         | I think I stopped using bookmarks (other than 4 or 5 quick
         | access buttons) some ten years ago, so I can relate.
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | I always try to avoid clearing peoples' history if possible.
         | E.g. use the Disable Cache option or delete individual cookies
         | via Developer Tools instead.
         | 
         | In the rare case that I do try the nuclear option of clearing
         | history, I always ask permission first.
        
         | lowbloodsugar wrote:
         | And rightly so!
        
         | euiq wrote:
         | Now this I can understand--why would you do that?!
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I think that is extremely and increasingly common, and even if
         | it wasn't it's not like history was just added for fun, it has
         | uses too.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | If I have to clear my browser I am very sad until N (enter)
           | brings me back here.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | Yes I would be too, so I don't do that. But I think even
             | more than the annoyance of everything lost I'd be mad at OP
             | on principle for meddling? There's no context, but even if
             | it was IT help desk my browser is too slow or something,
             | seems like something I should be asked about first, given a
             | chance to backup (or them do it for me and restore, and if
             | that's not an option then it's just not an acceptable
             | solution).
        
               | bombcar wrote:
               | I assume everyone who has done "tech support" either
               | professionally or as a hobby for family/friends has had
               | the case where they "emptied the trash" only to find out
               | that the person was storing important documents in it.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | Well that is the reason for it to exist, vs. straight rm?
               | I wouldn't do that to someone, at least not without
               | asking, either.
        
               | codetrotter wrote:
               | But it's still weird to put something that you still need
               | into the trash can on your desktop computer.
               | 
               | Like, if someone at an office physically put a printed
               | document into the trash can next to their desk, and then
               | they started screaming the next day because the cleaning
               | staff had emptied the trash can of "important documents".
               | Most people would agree that that would be an insane
               | reaction.
               | 
               | So why people decide to intentionally put important
               | documents in the trash can on the computer I don't
               | understand.
               | 
               | IMO the purpose of the trash can on the computer is to
               | give you a chance to undo throwing it away, just like in
               | real life. Instead of putting it straight into the
               | shredder irl. But to expect things to stay in the trash
               | for more than a little bit, that's bonkers.
        
               | OJFord wrote:
               | Only because you (should) expect (through
               | experience/onboarding etc.) that that will happen. IMO
               | it's a bit more like leaving a pile on your desk that
               | looks like scrap, then being annoyed that someone cleared
               | it without telling you or when you asked them to help
               | with something else, and it actually wasn't scrap, or at
               | least you hadn't yet determined that it certainly was.
               | 
               | And browser history doesn't even look like scrap, it's
               | just a useful thing that exists and many people _never_
               | clear it. Myself included, no reason to.
        
         | function_seven wrote:
         | I rely on my browsing history all the time. I don't always know
         | to bookmark a page the first I visit, oftentimes realizing its
         | importance or utility much later.
         | 
         | I think that's something you should ask before doing. Cache and
         | cookies aren't as important, but history is useful.
        
           | deredede wrote:
           | Cache may not be that important (although I believe that
           | nowadays clearing the cache also clears the local storage, so
           | the same would apply) but there are sites that use long-lived
           | cookies to deliver a personalized experience without needing
           | to log in which you would irredeemably break by clearing the
           | cookies.
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | clearing the cache should not clear localstorage. it should
             | be treated like cookies.
             | 
             | in settings firefox has two categories for clearing data:
             | 1: cookies and site data (which includes localstorage) and
             | 2: cached web content
             | 
             | history is managed in a different section of the settings.
        
           | NikolaNovak wrote:
           | >>Cache and cookies aren't as important, but history is
           | useful.
           | 
           | If I were to clear my wife's cache and cookies, it would
           | predictably lead to the biggest marital disturbance we had in
           | our 10 years together.
        
         | professoretc wrote:
         | I once got chewed out by a finance director because we in IT
         | had scheduled updates (and their associated restarts) to run on
         | weekends. This guy was in the habit of creating important
         | financial spreadsheets and then never saving them, just leaving
         | them open all the time. So he came in one Monday and found all
         | his work gone.
         | 
         | There was a rumor that when he was let go, the police had to
         | drag him from the building kicking and screaming. That rumor
         | was not true, but it was plausible.
        
       | shrubble wrote:
       | Tech support proud moment: in the 1990s, walking a non-technical
       | user through editing and then saving a config file for the
       | product I was supporting, with him using vi and not being
       | familiar with how it works, over the phone. The vi editor is the
       | one that you know is always installed on every Unix system.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | Surely anything with vi would also have pico or nano?
        
           | shrubble wrote:
           | I should have specified: in the mid-1990s, on SCO OpenServer
           | 5.
        
         | svilen_dobrev wrote:
         | about 2000, my father called me one day while i was somewhere
         | in middle of mountain.. about something going wrong, entering
         | the BIOS-setup of his machine... and in the next 15 minutes i
         | had to recall and imagine all them 6-7 screens of BIOS of his
         | computer, and lead-him-"by-hand", that is, key-by-key...
         | Luckily i had same BIOS on my machine so it was been..
         | familiar. While even if he was seeing all the text there, it
         | meant nothing to him...
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | At a previous company, a startup, we made and sold Firewall
       | software which was installed on either Sun hardware
       | (Solaris/SPARC) or Compaq (NT/x86). A sales guy returned from a
       | customer meeting proud to have made a sale. His customer loved
       | the Sun hardware, it was so well put together in those days
       | compared to the "Pee Cee", but he had only Windows sysadmins. So
       | our sales guy sold him a Firewall on SPARC hardware running NT,
       | which the company then asked me to deliver. Thanks BillJ,
       | wherever you are.
        
       | perryizgr8 wrote:
       | I get the anger tbh. Just give me any documentation and
       | accessories, cables that came with the device. There's no need to
       | expend effort on getting rid of thousands of manuals when you can
       | just give each manual to the end users along with the monitor,
       | probably in the same box it shipped.
        
         | lowbloodsugar wrote:
         | But but you can't allow the plebs to have their own manuals!!!!
        
       | MarkusWandel wrote:
       | I once got borderline threatened (the owner of the computer was a
       | lawyer) for changing a PC's screen resolution from 800x600 to
       | 1024x768 (the monitor was a 17" CRT) as part of something else I
       | was sorting out (voluntarily/socially, not as a job).
       | 
       | Needless to say I didn't argue the point, I just got my ass over
       | there and changed it back to 800x600. Luckily(?) I hadn't touched
       | the stack of "toolbars" in the Internet Explorer window...
        
       | croisillon wrote:
       | i too have this story from the dark ages of computing, when my
       | colleague asked how to make a pdf from an excel file. i told them
       | to choose the menu item "print", then choose the PDF-program as a
       | printer and then click on "print". they walk away immediately,
       | come back, grumble at the computer... i ask what's wrong
       | "nothing, nothing, tell me again: print, PDF-program and then
       | print, correct?", they walk away again and finally come back "i
       | found nothing at the printer, where is my PDF !?"
       | 
       | mind you, it was 2022
        
         | kevin_nisbet wrote:
         | lol I've had this exact same occur multiple times... basically
         | every time we have staff turnover in our condo office no one
         | knows how to print to pdf... so every year or two I have to
         | show someone how to do it, including up to 2022.
         | 
         | My pet peeve is that even in 2023 I still receive scans of
         | printouts from accountants. They print out their reports to add
         | cover sheets and add pages, and then scan it back in to deliver
         | as a financial statement.
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | Great example of terrible software UX that we just put up
           | with. I want to save this _file_ onto my _filesystem_ as a
           | PDF _file_. Why the hell do I need to choose "Print" to do
           | this?? If you are a developer, you might know the reason, but
           | as an end user, this is baffling and totally unexpected. Just
           | put "PDF" as another option in File- >Export, where it makes
           | the most sense to an end user.
           | 
           | Or, even better, developers, just use the "Save" function,
           | not "Export". Why we have to separate "Export" from "Save" is
           | another terrible UX that only makes sense to developers.
        
             | Aldipower wrote:
             | There were reasons for it even developers didn't
             | understand. PDF is actually Adobe PDF and you had to use
             | the Adobe PDF Creator to create PDFs. To be able to save to
             | PDF by a 3rd party application would have meant licenses
             | fees to Adobe. So some clever guys came up to "misuse" a
             | printer library for PDF creation... Today in Libre Office,
             | of course you find a button to _save_ directly to PDF. Not
             | sure about MS Office though.
        
               | goosedragons wrote:
               | Office has had it built-in since 2010, 2007 you need an
               | add-on.
        
               | abdullahkhalids wrote:
               | You will have to cite this in some form.
               | 
               | Latex has been able to create pdf files since the 90s.
        
             | robinsonb5 wrote:
             | >Why we have to separate "Export" from "Save" is another
             | terrible UX that only makes sense to developers.
             | 
             | I'm actually torn on this one. I can see where you're
             | coming from, but I can also see value in the conceptual
             | separation between saving a file in a form which can
             | reloaded with full editability, and exporting it in a
             | foreign format which effectively freezes it in its current
             | form. Commingling those two concepts does cause significant
             | confusion in non-technical people.
             | 
             | Having said that, I still swear whenever muscle-memory from
             | 20 years ago tricks me into trying to File->Save a .tif in
             | GIMP, and instead of doing what I want, it _lectures_ me
             | about how I should use File- >Export instead, like some
             | bratty kid playing "Simon Says".
        
             | kayodelycaon wrote:
             | macOS has pdf in the print dialog because is just a fancy
             | front end to CUPS. To the OS, a pdf is just another
             | printer.
             | 
             | Fortunately, nearly every Mac application uses the standard
             | dialog, so you only have to learn it once.
        
             | croisillon wrote:
             | it's very true! i could add that my colleague is 60 and not
             | particularly dumb
        
             | michaelmrose wrote:
             | If you see something that you believe only makes sense to
             | developers odds are it actually DOES make sense in terms of
             | the underling model that the application is working with.
             | For instance the way save works is that you save your file
             | as foo.txt subsequent saves automatically write further
             | changes to the chosen file in the chosen format. If you
             | "save as" again you change what the active file and format
             | is. So for instance you "save as" foo.docx. Subsequent
             | saves go to foo.docx and foo.txt stays as it is before the
             | "save as" and you could open either one an continue where
             | you left off.
             | 
             | Now take PDF a piece of shit format able to submit remote
             | forms, execute JavaScript, and render and manipulate 3D
             | models. Its a garbage application formation masquerading as
             | a bad document format.
             | 
             | It makes sense to produce a pdf as a snapshot of the
             | document but it makes zero sense to treat it as txt or docx
             | one doesn't simply "save as" pdf and then continue editing
             | in that format. If you use save for this feature how do you
             | express the fact that you don't want to make foo.pdf the
             | new default save target especially if you can't
             | subsequently open it? Do you just silently not do that?
             | This violates good design where observable functionality
             | reflects as much as possible the comprehensible part of the
             | user model you are presenting to the user. Having save as
             | silently work differently when targeting an output only
             | format is a bad solution.
             | 
             | Save vs Export expresses the underlying reality. You see
             | the same conceptual reality where you are creating
             | multimedia and the output format is lossy.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | This is part of what I'm complaining about: There often
               | _is_ a technical reason (occasionally even a good
               | technical reason) for why the software is made a certain
               | way, but those reasons are things that should only be
               | relevant to the developer, not to the end user. The end
               | user should not care about the "underlying model" or the
               | "active file format". The software should "just work",
               | and the frontend developer's job is to make the right
               | judgment calls and hide irrelevant underlying nuance and
               | complexity from the user. Great software doesn't "ship
               | the org chart" or "ship the class abstractions".
               | 
               | If there really is an important power user case, provide
               | an Expert Mode for those who care about the underlying
               | model. That way, users who care about the lack of
               | editabilty of PDFs or who actually mentally distinguish
               | between lossless source material and lossy outputs to
               | lose nothing, but other casual users gain a lot when
               | these things are done for them.
        
               | andybak wrote:
               | How about this. Some formats are severely lossy. Users
               | are used to "save" not being lossy. If they misunderstand
               | the capabilities of a format then they can irretrievably
               | lose data.
               | 
               | "Export" is an attempt to make that less likely.
               | 
               | Some misunderstandings are more serious than others.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | Providing export to PDF while allowing save to docx is
               | what allows the user to completely ignore virtually
               | everything about the underlying model at the expense of
               | one additional menu. All the model they need is in
               | knowing how to operate a standard menu.
               | 
               | 99.99% of document editor don't open or edit PDFs for a
               | reason and doing otherwise is incredibly impractical.
               | 
               | You are best case asking to literally treble the scope of
               | the app to go from one menu to two and because PDF is a
               | giant piece of shit the result will probably be
               | substantially more buggy.
               | 
               | We either need to seamlessly handle the mismatched
               | formats whilst handling complexity like embedded
               | documents or the users mental model now must encompass
               | what features work in different formats. In all
               | likelihood we end up in the worst of all possible worlds
               | where it's a little bit of both.
               | 
               | Then the experts who actually care about sharing working
               | documents now have the functionality they need hidden in
               | a special mode which by definition few will ever learn
               | about while received wisdom will end up being not using
               | PDF or printing and scanning.
               | 
               | If you special case save as *.PDF to produce a PDF but
               | not change the active save target to avoid lovecraftian
               | horror you avoid most of the above but now save as a
               | feature most people understand works different in your
               | app than everyone else's.
               | 
               | The people who have export menus aren't stupid, you
               | aren't actually smarter than them, you should at least
               | understand why the fence you want to bulldoze exists it
               | exists for good reason.
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | Around the time glossy displays became fashionable a colleague of
       | mine got a new laptop from work. He opened it and there was a
       | huge scratch across the display. So he went to his boss and asked
       | if he could send the laptop back, because of the damaged display.
       | 
       | He sent it in, got it back after a while, but the scratch was
       | still there, so he sent it in again.
       | 
       | A couple of days latter he was called into the bosses office to
       | pick up the fixed laptop again. Boss gave it to him and casually
       | remarked that he'd better check if the display was OK this the.
       | Colleague opened it right there and - big surprise - the scratch
       | was sure still there.
       | 
       | After he'd stopped cussing, while his boss was silently looking
       | at him, boss - still without saying a word - tore away the
       | protective film, which just happened to have a big crease across
       | the screen, to reveal a flawless glossy surface.
        
         | euroderf wrote:
         | I hope this made it into an episode of Office Space or
         | something.
        
       | jamdav16 wrote:
       | Guess I've encountered the opposite.
       | 
       | I started a job as a software engineer, first day. The
       | engineering team mostly use Macbooks, my manager asked if I
       | preferred Mac or Windows. I said mac.
       | 
       | I got my Mac, but needed IT helpdesk to set it up (VPN, admin
       | access etc...). I got told there was no ticketing system and for
       | me to drop it off at the helpdesk instead. I did that, but was
       | promptly told that 'Macbooks are hard to set up, so f off...'
       | (yes, he swore at me).
       | 
       | I left stunned back to my manager, he followed up with head of IT
       | and that guy was ordered to apologise to me and was reprimanded.
       | Safe to say I had my Macbook set up within minutes by someone
       | else. Not a great first day.
        
         | Jaygles wrote:
         | When I started my current job, they asked me Mac or PC laptop
         | and I said Mac. A couple days later a PC arrives. When I'm on
         | the call with the IT guy to get things set up I mentioned I
         | requested a Mac but PC is fine too and he said he never heard
         | about my choice. Later I find out someone else on the team had
         | the exact same experience, and we found out the preference WAS
         | communicated. We've long since gotten a new IT guy and I'll
         | probably switch to Mac when my current machine gets to three
         | years old.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | w0mbat wrote:
       | Although the user should have been polite, I totally understand
       | being annoyed that the manual was intercepted and thrown out.
       | Users who actually read manuals are like gold. They want to learn
       | and they want to solve their own problems if they can.
        
       | RecycledEle wrote:
       | When I was a teenager, I added extra cables in my PC case
       | everywhere they fit. My idea was that if/when I added something,
       | I would already have the cable.
       | 
       | I probably spent $100 mail ordering the cables from sellers in
       | Computer Shopper. I am not saying this made sense, but it
       | probably made as much sense as RGB fans do today.
       | 
       | I had to take it in for some repair that I could not figure out,
       | and the service tech "stole" all my spare cables.
       | 
       | I recall being unhappy, but I do not remember the details.
       | 
       | I do know the tech refused to give me back all my cables.
        
       | arrow7000 wrote:
       | Okay? Not sure what the point of this post is
        
         | sammyteee wrote:
         | Huh? It's just a story being told lol. Do you comment this on
         | everything you come across on the internet? What's the point in
         | anything?
        
         | pacifika wrote:
         | Interesting anecdote related to the field of computer
         | engineering.
        
         | helpfulContrib wrote:
         | The point is, sometimes you need a manager to keep the
         | authoritarians and the servile classes, suitably lubricated.
         | This guy pissed off someone who should know better, and
         | eventually - thanks to middle management - did.
         | 
         | There are class lessons in the narrative. Still relevant.
        
           | H8crilA wrote:
           | How did he piss him off exactly? All I see here is a mentally
           | sick (but mostly functional) manager/partner.
           | 
           | It is a good story to remind ourselves how deranged some
           | individuals are. And yeah, knowing how to handle the crazies
           | is useful.
        
             | helpfulContrib wrote:
             | The guy wanted the manual, because he felt he needed to
             | read the manual - but when it was explained to him that the
             | junior IT guy would help him with whatever he needed, it
             | calmed him down.
             | 
             | Its a generational thing. You may not feel it these days
             | but there were indeed periods of computer evolution where
             | it was, kind of important to read the manual. And, also,
             | help the older generation get used to the new things.
        
             | themadturk wrote:
             | Partners are owners. In law and financial fields, they are
             | often very knowledgable and experts in their fields and
             | know little about things like computers.
             | 
             | When I started computerizing a law firm in the early 90s,
             | the only technology attorneys knew how to use was the
             | telephone and the dictation machine -- and their
             | automobiles, of course, which some attorneys used as a
             | comparison for how they wanted their PCs to work.
             | 
             | Especially for older attorneys, computers and such were
             | frightening (many attorneys had never touched a
             | typewriter), and I think this accounts for a lot of these
             | kinds of reactions. Many people in power are used to having
             | their whims catered to, to having others support them --
             | the junior attorneys, secretaries, paralegals, word
             | processing operators, accounting staff, etc.
        
               | euroderf wrote:
               | > and their automobiles, of course, which some attorneys
               | used as a comparison for how they wanted their PCs to
               | work.
               | 
               | This is reasonable. We don't ask people to understand
               | ICEs in order to drive their cars around town.
        
       | abridgett wrote:
       | I've only seen this behaviour once. Someone very publicly shouted
       | at and then privately apologised to. Needless to say the shouter
       | lost any respect I had for them - firstly for blaming without
       | facts, secondly for being so pathetic they didn't make a public
       | apology. The victim in this case went up in my estimation and us
       | now a very successful team leader.
        
       | EMM_386 wrote:
       | Many ages ago, at my first software engineering job, I was tasked
       | with building a new replacement system for an aging platform. I
       | decided to write this in the new-thing at the time, C# and .Net.
       | 
       | I managed to put together the overall framework, architect a SQL
       | database for it, and after a bit of time had a working
       | replacement for the most important parts of what it was
       | replacing. While discussing the next steps, the owner of the
       | company mentions he just sold one already to one of the largest
       | clients using the old system. I found that rather surprising, as
       | he made no mention of announcing it let alone starting to sell
       | it, and it wasn't ready to be sold, but here we were.
       | 
       | We go to meet with this company to discuss specifics, and one of
       | the questions they ask is "exactly how much bandwidth is utilized
       | when we do X? We have Y employees and want to know exactly how
       | much it uses if they were to be using it at the same time".
       | 
       | Now, I wrote this thing to be as performant as I could, but at no
       | point up to now did I have time to run specific performance
       | metrics on it such as how much bandwidth was being used by every
       | specific piece of functionality. It wasn't even an announced
       | product, as far as I knew.
       | 
       | My boss turns and just stares at me. So I answered honestly, said
       | I didn't have the exact numbers, and I can get back to them, but
       | I felt that their current setup should be more than sufficient.
       | 
       | Meeting ends, we get back to the car, and he is suddenly irate.
       | 
       | "Don't ever, ever tell a client you don't know something! How
       | could you do that? That made us look like we don't even
       | understand our own product! You know what you do in that
       | situation? Make up a number that works! You never say you don't
       | know! Unbelievable!"
       | 
       | I'm not in sales. I got dragged into this meeting out of nowhere
       | only to get chewed out for not properly fielding a question,
       | about a product that I didn't know we were selling, that I
       | couldn't possibly have expected to answer at that point.
        
         | patrickmay wrote:
         | I used to work in technical sales and had the opposite
         | interaction. The salesman told me "The customer knows I'm the
         | sales guy. They automatically don't trust me. You're the
         | technologist, make them trust you."
        
         | kayodelycaon wrote:
         | Wow. I've worked with a fair number of vendors, customers, and
         | internal stakeholders in my time and "let me get back to you"
         | is extremely common. The only time that wasn't acceptable was
         | when you didn't get back to them in a reasonable amount of
         | time.
        
         | cgio wrote:
         | I was in a proposal team for a big project, responsible for the
         | estimation of work. My estimate brought the cost at three times
         | the partner anticipated. I told him there is no way we can
         | execute with his budget unless if we take the cost as marketing
         | expense. He turned around to tell me "we are doing sales mate",
         | to which I replied, "you are doing sales, I will be doing
         | delivery". Ended up getting the project at partner's quote, two
         | months later kicked out because the client felt there was not
         | enough progress on the basis of budget proportion spent...
        
         | 0x0000000 wrote:
         | I know a lot of sales engineers - the ones that make up numbers
         | and bullshit customers don't last very long. Anecdotally, I
         | know of sales engineer interviews which will push you to the
         | point of saying "I don't know" -- not being willing to admit
         | what you don't know means not getting the job.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | That boss sounds like a really annoying and crappy software
         | sales person, you probably shouldn't heed their advice.
        
         | oaiey wrote:
         | Sales! They know everything and sell every feature of the
         | product. Even if the product does not have the feature or
         | cannot be understood.
        
       | lawgimenez wrote:
       | Around 2010 I started my career in a barely functioning software
       | dev company. For some reason, my boss thinks it was a good idea
       | to welcome our newly hired intern to the company by setting him
       | up with two CRT monitors side by side. So dual CRT monitors.
       | Everyone was already using dual Samsung LCD monitors.
       | 
       | Until now, I still can't believe how ridiculous that setup was.
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | The first thing I do when I get any equipment is record the
       | serial number, purchase price and date in a spreadsheet. Second
       | thing is to download the PDF manual, and in the rare cases one is
       | not available online, scan then recycle the paper manual.
       | 
       | If I ever become world leader, one of the first things I'll order
       | is for every product to be engraved or printed with a QR code
       | leading to the specs and manual.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | What do you use to scan the books?
         | 
         | Edit: am apparently unable to type today.
        
           | maccard wrote:
           | The Google app on Android does a remarkably good job of image
           | to pdf and text extraction.
        
           | fmajid wrote:
           | Usually a Fujitsu ScanSnap document scanner after unstapling
           | the manual and slitting the binding fold with a paper knife.
           | Also scanner phone apps like Readdle Scanner Pro work very
           | well for thick cardboard that won't feed through a scanner (I
           | do have flatbeds but it's usually too much trouble to unpack
           | them into my tiny home office).
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | The article is about the 90s, internet access was not a given
         | scanners were expensive, QR codes as we know them didn't exist,
         | and you may not have had a second computer to read the manual
         | explaining why the first computer didn't work.
         | 
         | Also, manuals meant something. Nowadays paper manuals included
         | with products are mostly legal stuff about all the things you
         | can't do and limits on warranty. Maybe a quick start guide. But
         | the actual manual is often not included.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | That QR code will only work until the website gets redesigned,
         | probably with the next fad.js
        
           | rhn_mk1 wrote:
           | A dream - the code contains a hash which identifies the file.
           | Like ipfs + bittorrent.
        
           | ooterness wrote:
           | Presumably their second act as King Of The World will be to
           | mandate the use of perpetual third-party hosting services.
           | (e.g., A simple HTTPS host for static files that's run by the
           | government and never deletes or moves a file.) Use of these
           | services is required for sale of QR-labeled hardware.
        
             | fmajid wrote:
             | Or mandatory registration with conservation authorities and
             | copyright depositories like the Library of Congress,
             | British Library, Biblotheque Nationale de France, etc.
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | Or more likely, like with the Lidl story last week, the
           | domain expires, gets bought by some spammer, and will host
           | Chinese porn ads in perpetuity.
        
       | throwarayes wrote:
       | Sadly workplace assholery is everywhere
       | 
       | One performance review I received was a 45 minute, one-sided rant
       | from my boss directed at me. All completely out of left field.
       | With no ability to get a word in. It left me utterly shell
       | shocked.
       | 
       | Most performance reviews I've had are good "gives and takes",
       | leaving me with feedback to consider, but also offering my boss
       | perspective too. They're also usually not complete surprises.
       | I've had to give hard feedback to subordinates myself, and I know
       | the importance of being open and listening when giving feedback,
       | as almost always I have an incomplete picture of their behavior
       | and a lot to learn about what they're going though.
       | 
       | Trusting, dumbass me, just sat there and took this. I assumed I
       | was the problem, that I was fundamentally broken as an employee,
       | and wanted to just find any way to please this boss to make it
       | all better.
       | 
       | She used the time to tell me,
       | 
       | - all the ways I was screwing up, without letting me ask
       | questions, clarify, or correct anything.
       | 
       | - that she, and only she, had the true objective perspective on
       | and others wouldn't tell me their thoughts about me (despite
       | regularly giving / receiving feedback)
       | 
       | - Make me distrust my colleagues as my boss had me thinking they
       | were holding something back / funneling all these complaints to
       | my boss.
       | 
       | This pattern of communication persisted for months sadly, and it
       | took me months to "deprogram" away from thinking she had the a
       | true, objective view of my performance.
       | 
       | I slept poorly this whole time. My engagement suffered and my
       | performance plummeted. I went from a top performer in my space to
       | becoming disengaged and feeling I could do nothing right. I went
       | from having regular open discussions with everyone on how I could
       | improve to having convos with only her, and closed off from my
       | colleagues.
       | 
       | It was as if it was intended to get me to leave, which I did
       | given how unhealthy the environment was. Which is interesting as
       | early on she had been so positive and supportive. I guess it all
       | had little to do with my performance and more to do with not
       | being seen as useful anymore, and thus discarded by her.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-10 23:02 UTC)