[HN Gopher] Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will...
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       Our Self-Driving Cars Will Save Lives, but They Will Kill Some of
       You First
        
       Author : sundaeofshock
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2023-09-09 21:15 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.mcsweeneys.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.mcsweeneys.net)
        
       | inamberclad wrote:
       | I know this article is satire, but it certainly strikes a chord.
       | Putting big metal robots capable of moving at highway speed in
       | close proximity to squishy humans is going to cause issues. It
       | might be the human's fault. It might be the vehicle's fault. It
       | might be completely unrelated.
       | 
       | However, there are industries like aviation that take these
       | issues seriously. They're investigated, reported, and learned
       | from. We need to do the same for autonomous vehicles if they're
       | actually going to be safe. This means we need an open,
       | independent body outside of industry control, like the NTSB or
       | NHTSA that can produce in depth, transparent, and publicly
       | available reports that manufacturers can't bury or buy away.
       | 
       | On the other side, we, the (future) passengers need to be
       | conscious of these safety issues. We need to hold companies
       | accountable for fixing flaws in autonomous vehicles. Airplane
       | accidents can be spectacularly big, which captivates the public.
       | I'm worried that car accidents will just be too small for enough
       | people to care, and therefore we will continue to have a trickle
       | of fatalities in every city and we will never be free from cars.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | ~40k people die in the US from human caused car accidents every
         | year (~12.9 deaths per 100,000 people, ~1.37 deaths per 100
         | million miles traveled), and we're getting squeamish about the
         | robot that never gets tired, drunk, or inattentive?
         | 
         | If you want to be free from cars, build walkable and carless
         | cities people can afford and want to move to. We can then
         | discuss sunsetting mass automobile infra (which is very
         | unlikely, although infra spending can be weighted to more
         | efficient urban development, mass transit, bicycle infra, etc
         | vs automobile centric systems). Until then, the need for
         | autonomous vehicles is an inconvenient truth.
         | 
         | > This means we need an open, independent body outside of
         | industry control, like the NTSB or NHTSA that can produce in
         | depth, transparent, and publicly available reports that
         | manufacturers can't bury or buy away.
         | 
         | Strongly agree.
        
           | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
           | > 40k people
           | 
           | You're jumping to a quantitative comparison because that's
           | simpler and more obvious, but the right way to think about it
           | is qualitatively.
           | 
           | We have over half a century of understanding of modern human
           | driving patterns. We know the ceiling on the number of
           | accidents/deaths that humans will cause. We know that if it
           | changes, it will change slowly.
           | 
           | AI works differently. An update to code or models wipes out
           | all expectations we've learned from prior versions.
           | 
           | In short, the entire fleet of autonomous vehicles can change
           | behavior overnight with a software update and become murder
           | tanks.
           | 
           | Nothing will ever happen to all human drivers at once. Some
           | small percentage will be drunk at any given time. We'll never
           | all wake up with a new drunk version of ourselves at the same
           | time.
           | 
           | I don't mean to say that autonomous technology could never
           | work in principal. But we know that _this_ SV in practice has
           | too much hubris and too little oversight to deploy sensitive
           | products responsibly, or with attention to any values above
           | profit and growth.
        
         | JumpinJack_Cash wrote:
         | > > However, there are industries like aviation that take these
         | issues seriously. They're investigated, reported, and learned
         | from
         | 
         | If everything were to be as safe as aviation the whole world
         | would come to a screeching halt standstill.
         | 
         | And besides they do it to protect the 200M plane not the
         | passengers because those same souls enter in the subway or a
         | mall or a stadium or a train 15 mins after they disembark from
         | the 200M plane, and they could bring (or face someone with) an
         | assault rifle without facing any screening or x-rays or even an
         | ID check
         | 
         | I don't like self driving cars but if the bar to plow ahead
         | with deployment is aviation then we can call the end of
         | technological improvement already
        
       | SCAQTony wrote:
       | Perhaps better rapid transit could be quicker and safer than
       | driving in amy form. Perhaps designers should design cities
       | around rapid transit rather than building rapid transit after the
       | cities have been built.
        
         | thereisnospork wrote:
         | It won't, at least not in the near term:
         | 
         | Cars are on the precipice of both becoming immensely greener
         | (electric) and immensely more practical (self-driving) than the
         | status-quo. The equilibrium is going to shortly at rapidly
         | shift towards cars, not towards transit.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-09 23:01 UTC)