[HN Gopher] Public restrooms are hard to find in America
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Public restrooms are hard to find in America
        
       Author : linusg789
       Score  : 184 points
       Date   : 2023-09-09 14:52 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | novelwere wrote:
       | A show called 'How to With John Wilson' did an episode on exactly
       | this topic recently, and as a non-American it was truly bizarre
       | to see what the situation is like in New York. Not sure how
       | embellished it was, but I was shocked.
        
         | plants wrote:
         | As someone who lives in New York and has seen the episode
         | you're referring to, it is not embellished at all. New York
         | might be the hardest city to find a public restroom that I have
         | ever been in. Sometimes buying something isn't even sufficient
         | grounds for using a bathroom - a business might only have an
         | "Employees Only" bathroom in the back.
        
       | digitcatphd wrote:
       | The real problem is homelessness this is just another symptom
        
       | SirMaster wrote:
       | This must be regional.
       | 
       | There are public restrooms basically everywhere by me in WI.
       | 
       | Every gas station, every restaurant, fast food etc, every store
       | in general has a public and unlocked restroom in my experience.
       | There are public restrooms at most parks too.
        
       | dmatech wrote:
       | I've personally never had trouble going to a restaurant or other
       | place with restrooms for customers, but I'm sure things are very
       | different in places known for people who are homeless, drug-
       | addicted, mentally ill, or criminals.
       | 
       | If people use few consumables and keep the restroom clean, it's
       | probably more likely to remain open to the public. But I'd
       | imagine the staff doesn't want to clean up a biohazard or deal
       | with dirty needles.
        
       | tough wrote:
       | In france you've public urinals by the beautiful siene lmao
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Until recently the Siene _was_ the beautiful urinal.
        
       | supportengineer wrote:
       | Somebody should make a subscription membership that allows you
       | access to any bathroom you want.
        
       | aeternum wrote:
       | Public restrooms are hard to find in America but even harder in
       | most other countries.
       | 
       | Yes this is a problem we should solve but it's kind of ridiculous
       | to imply it's an issue only in America. In the vast majority of
       | countries on earth, you must either pay or purchase something to
       | use the restroom.
        
         | zzzeek wrote:
         | > Public restrooms are hard to find in America but even harder
         | in most other countries.
         | 
         | the third graphic in this article refutes this directly.
        
         | dcminter wrote:
         | "Spend a penny" is a common euphemism in the UK for using a
         | toilet precisely because that used to be a typical fee on a
         | public one; well before my day though (and I'm middle-aged).
         | 
         | Free public ones do exist but they're not common (and the ones
         | with a charge are a lot more than a penny).
        
           | floodedburner wrote:
           | The outright paying to pee blew my mind. Especially when you
           | don't know that the UK has different money than the EU.
        
             | okeuro49 wrote:
             | I found paying to use the convenience to be much more
             | common in Germany than in the UK.
             | 
             | It was especially annoying at railway stations and shopping
             | centres, both places which usually have free conveniences
             | in the UK.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | throwawaymaths wrote:
         | Came here to post this. If you think the US is bad, try Paris.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | >try Paris
           | 
           | Literally the worst example. There are +400 automated self-
           | cleaning toilets (accessible to people with disabilities)
           | 
           | https://capgeo.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Media/index.html?appid=5.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://www.paris.fr/pages/les-sanisettes-2396
        
             | throwawaymaths wrote:
             | Ok, that's not been my experience, perhaps I just don't
             | know how to find toilets _en francais_
        
             | vladvasiliu wrote:
             | Just make sure you don't need to go at night, since many
             | (most?) are only open during daytime.
        
               | croisillon wrote:
               | according to the link, a third of them is open 24/24
        
             | msla wrote:
             | Are they free to use?
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | The rounded ones in GP's link are free to use, yes.
               | 
               | There are some public restrooms which aren't, mainly
               | around tourist areas, but there's usually a sign and an
               | attendant. The ones in GP's post are fully automated.
        
         | rufus_foreman wrote:
         | Pay toilets used to be common in the US, they were banned in
         | many US states after lawsuits alleging sexism and lobbying by
         | the "Committee to End Pay Toilets in America", not making this
         | up:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_i...
         | 
         | See also
         | https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2018/11/ma...
        
       | p3rls wrote:
       | Suckers. I do NFPA25 fire protection inspections throughout NYC
       | and let them know they will be getting a visit from the fire
       | department if they do not let me use their bathroom.
       | 
       | I have an entire map of private luxury bathrooms in NYC I can use
       | now.
        
       | sharkweek wrote:
       | It won't be for everyone but there's a show on HBO called "How To
       | With John Wilson" where he picks a theme for the week and deep
       | dives down multiple threads around the chosen topic.
       | 
       | A few weeks ago he did one called "How to find a public restroom"
       | and it was shocking to me how unavailable such a necessity is in
       | even major cities with high population density. I get that in
       | general public restrooms end up in disarray but I also think that
       | represents more that we just aren't willing to fund the required
       | maintenance to keep them in better shape.
       | 
       | Side note: the funniest part from the episode was when he tricked
       | one of the self cleaning bathrooms in New York to run a cleaning
       | cycle while he was inside filming, was hilarious.
        
         | JSavageOne wrote:
         | Plenty of public bathrooms in Japan and Korea.
         | 
         | Hell even India seemed to have piblic bathrooms within reach
         | when I visited
        
         | mike503 wrote:
         | Was coming in here to mention John Wilson. Such a slow-paced
         | yet interesting show. This season has really caught my
         | attention better.
        
         | circularfoyers wrote:
         | For anyone curious, this is the clip mentioned,
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D5qK8oh5lY
        
         | jameskraus wrote:
         | Oh, I'm so glad you brought up "How to with John Wilson". I
         | didn't know there were new episodes and now I've got to watch
         | these! I was floored by the first season, especially ending on
         | Covid, so my hopes are high!
        
         | plasma_beam wrote:
         | So sad that John Wilson is over now. One of the weirdest best
         | shows ever. The S1 E2 episode How to put up scaffolding about
         | all the scaffolding in NYC was one of my favorites. Never has a
         | show loved and showcased a city so authentically, except maybe
         | the Wire with Baltimore.
         | 
         | If you've watched the final episode (absolutely riveting in
         | typical Wilson fashion) the conversation with "Mike" is just
         | shocking. But in some ways it makes sense the show had to end.
         | Similar to the Ali G show back in the day, once you achieve
         | some fame, ironically strangers will know who you are and be
         | less likely to tell their true stories and opinions. And at
         | that point the show would be dead anyway.
        
         | triyambakam wrote:
         | I keep a small urinal, an expanding toilet and travel bidet in
         | my car. I feel liberated and so glad to never deal with that.
        
           | coffeebeqn wrote:
           | You just pop that bad boy onto the sidewalk/parking lot ? Or
           | is this some van/RV setup?
        
           | makz wrote:
           | Do you have any name or link to specific products?
        
             | scruple wrote:
             | I've had a Zojirushi travel bidet for years and years now.
             | Battery operated. The thing is a champ. I keep it in the
             | downstairs bathroom (both upstairs bathrooms have bidets
             | installed) but take it with us if we travel anywhere by
             | car.
        
               | covercash wrote:
               | Do you mean Toto? I have the Toto travel bidet as well as
               | a few Zojirushi products and I've never come across a
               | bidet by Zojirushi...
        
             | p1mrx wrote:
             | This design looks good in theory:
             | https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4753565
             | 
             | It's a 3D printed urinal with a captive lid that attaches
             | to a standard plastic bottle.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >in even major cities with high population density
         | 
         | I'd say that was typically where the issue is. I wouldn't
         | expect to find a bathroom in the middle of random forest of
         | course but pretty much anywhere in suburbia/exurbia has grocery
         | stores, Walmarts, McDonalds, gas stations, with restrooms you
         | can use. Worst case, make a small purchase.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | When the poop is literally falling out, you don't always have
           | time to make a purchase.
           | 
           | Anyone with kids understands this plight well.
        
             | tough wrote:
             | What abides you from shitting first and buy later?
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | Usually a key or door code.
        
               | tough wrote:
               | Right
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | You can just ask for that, you don't need to buy
               | anything. People are pretty understanding.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | More reason why those with kids stay out of the high
             | density urban areas, or plan ahead.
             | 
             | Around here there are any number of 24 hour gas stations
             | with easily accessible restrooms with no locks or anything.
        
               | sharkweek wrote:
               | Edit: completely misread the above as a suggestion and
               | not as a description of what people are doing. My bad.
        
               | carbocation wrote:
               | I interpreted the statement as descriptive, not
               | normative.
        
               | sharkweek wrote:
               | You're totally right after I reread.
        
             | scruple wrote:
             | We had one accident like this when our twins were 3 and
             | immediately bought a portable potty. It uses heavy plastic
             | bags, which sucks, but I'm not going through that again. It
             | goes everywhere with us.
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | Yeah we have one too, which is great when you're near the
               | car... We don't usually carry it with us though. I
               | suppose we could, never really considered it.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | In that case it would be really hard to believe a worker
             | would hold you up. Ask for the code and they will give it
             | to you if they need it. No one is so rigid about these
             | things especially when you are a shift worker paid minimum
             | wage.
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | When your kid is actively pooping their pants, the last
               | thing you want to do is waste time asking for the code,
               | but yes, most people are pretty understanding.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | 1-6 wrote:
       | Some public restrooms in other countries are well kept without
       | frequent maintenance. Most restrooms in America are gross and
       | it'll take more than a couple generations to fix this.
       | 
       | This will be an unpopular opinion but I think parents should
       | teach their children how to go #1 or #2 properly. For example,
       | water tension will make pee drizzle splash everywhere. Pee on the
       | left or right side of the porcelain.
       | 
       | Good habits begin at home and most are being taught in daycare by
       | teachers who would rather not stare at kids while they go.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | All you have to do is learn to lift the seat to pee and not
         | hover over the toilet while having the worst poop of your life.
         | Those two points would go a long way as far as cleanliness
         | goes.
        
       | black_13 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | paul7986 wrote:
       | In cities yes because of vagrants yet in the suburbs and rural
       | areas ... public bathrooms are easy to find everywhere. I think
       | Ive been to some places of businesses in cities that gave me the
       | keycode to the bathroom once you buy something.
        
         | electriclove wrote:
         | Except at the Asian shopping plazas in the US suburbs. They
         | make the restroom situation quite difficult.
        
       | jncfhnb wrote:
       | I feel like restrooms are much easier to find in America than
       | anywhere else. Restaurants and hotels usually offer them for
       | free. It's weird to have to pay for them in Europe
        
       | seanhandley wrote:
       | I wonder if this is the death of public spaces. If you want
       | community you need people to be able to leave their homes for
       | extended periods and join each other in public. It should be
       | stable stakes for any civilised democracy to have public
       | conveniences IMHO
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Madmallard wrote:
       | How exactly is it legal to charge people to use bathrooms when
       | it's not something you can control for long? Seems like inhumane
       | logic.
        
       | swozey wrote:
       | I got kicked out of the house by my dad when I was 16. He let me
       | keep my car thankfully. I lived in Florida and I would park at
       | the beaches that had public bathrooms + showers just to get by..
       | Weird time of my life. No pub bathrooms anywhere else..
        
       | LAC-Tech wrote:
       | There's a touristy little town about half an hours drive from me
       | (NZ not America) that has a few cafes and what not. We used to go
       | there multiple times a year, but recently they cut their number
       | of public toilets down to about a third. Now I just don't go. I
       | don't want to queue up to take a piss with a bunch of tourists.
        
       | vuln wrote:
       | It's things like this that prevent more public restrooms.
       | 
       | https://ibb.co/CzpmTR6
        
       | adolph wrote:
       | Isn't it odd that there hasn't been created a better method of
       | dealing with poop and piss? Why aren't we all wearing waste
       | recycling systems already?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bandyaboot wrote:
       | Seems like it would be possible to come up with partnerships
       | between local businesses and governments. A business could be
       | paid a certain amount to make their bathroom publicly accessible.
       | As I'm writing this it's sounding familiar, so maybe this is
       | already a thing in some places? Could maybe even have the local
       | government send out crews to do the cleaning.
        
       | hartator wrote:
       | I am just back from Naples. Even in restaurants, restrooms are
       | not a given. And for sure no toilet seat, toilet paper, or paper
       | towels. Never had this issue in the US.
        
       | JSavageOne wrote:
       | Plenty of public bathrooms in Japan and Korea.
       | 
       | The U.S can't have many nice things because it has an epidemic of
       | homeless people, many of whom are mentally ill and/or addicted to
       | drugs, but can't get treatment.
        
         | pirate787 wrote:
         | It is a breakdown in US culture and law enforcement, not the
         | lack of treatment options.
        
       | tough wrote:
       | I was a bit shocked when in some Canada's Horton's there was a
       | disposable needle trash for the junkies, so I get why WiFi might
       | be free for all but restrooms not so much
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | Those boxes are also for people with diabetes, especially at
         | eating establishments.
        
           | speakfreely wrote:
           | The fact that people with diabetes make up any notable
           | percentage of Tim Horton's customers is scary.
        
             | morkalork wrote:
             | Pretty much the only times I'll go into a Tim Hortons is
             | when taking a break on a long drive. There's a lot of
             | highway out there where Timmy Ho's will be your only
             | option, especially at night, so it's not surprising to see
             | the drop boxes. Proper rest stops have them too.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | That's pretty common everywhere in the USA now, even places
         | where it's clear the box has never ever been used.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | People are prescribed iv drugs its not only addicts
        
             | tough wrote:
             | Right insulin and such
        
       | s5300 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | nerdchum wrote:
       | People think its the homeless pooping on the streets of San
       | Francisco but I was an employed software engineer making 6+
       | figures and pooped on the street one time since I could find a
       | restroom.
        
         | cvccvroomvroom wrote:
         | Shit. Pun intended. Try finding a public restroom in LA. Almost
         | every business there sports a prominent sign proudly
         | proclaiming "no public restroom."
        
           | nerdchum wrote:
           | Los Angeles was rough for public restrooms I remember when I
           | was there!
           | 
           | I do remember if you were on the west side the Santa Monica
           | boardwalk and the beaches all having public restrooms which
           | was a lifesaver numerous times for me!
           | 
           | But that was around 2015ish not sure how it is now.
        
         | adrianmsmith wrote:
         | Was there a possibility of finding a cafe or Macdonalds and
         | just buying a coffee or something so you could use their
         | restrooms? (as you said you were making 6+ figures) I mean I
         | imagine that would be preferable to pooping on the street. But
         | I don't know San Francisco, was there a reason why that wasn't
         | possible e.g. no cafes open or something?
        
           | cvccvroomvroom wrote:
           | Starbucks the world over. If they might give you any trouble,
           | stare vaguely at the menu on the way in. One can always
           | change their mind to not order something on the way out.
        
             | nerdchum wrote:
             | Starbucks has restroom codes in large cities with homeless
             | populations. They won't give out unless you buy something.
             | 
             | One of the Boulder Colorado Starbucks has a biohazard
             | needle disposal box. Either that's for people with diabetes
             | or there a high population of IV drug users.
        
           | nerdchum wrote:
           | Yeah the lines in those places are incredibly long just to
           | get to the counter at least in the market street area where I
           | was. I desperately tried.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hackerfooze wrote:
         | Same except with cum. I just couldn't wait for a Waffle House
         | bathroom.
        
           | nerdchum wrote:
           | @dang
           | 
           | Id bet probably the same IP addy as the other troll on this
           | thread
        
             | google234123 wrote:
             | Could you turn yourself into the police for shitting in the
             | street please (San Francisco Police Code Sec 153) and pay
             | the fine
             | 
             | Did you come back to clean it up?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Zetice wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | reedf1 wrote:
           | Have you considered seeing a psychologist? Not being able to
           | control your effusions is the sign of a significant problem.
        
             | Zetice wrote:
             | [dead]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Coffee effects around 30% of people with a strong
               | laxative effect.
               | 
               | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2338272/
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | And yet 30% of people aren't shitting in the street.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Yeah because they have public restrooms available.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | No, because they can still manage their bowel movements.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | weird that youre not getting the meaning of: "Strong
               | laxative effect"
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I am, you aren't. If it meant what you suggest, coffee
               | wouldn't be served.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | It probably shouldn't be in places where there's no
               | public restroom access.
               | 
               | It's probably still a holdover from when San Francisco
               | wasn't as crowded and had adequate access to public
               | restrooms.
               | 
               | It's not really an issue in most of the country because
               | there's at least adequate public restroom access.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | No, coffee doesn't cause people to involuntarily shit,
               | that's not what a strong laxative is or does.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | You're sort of a broken record at this point.
               | 
               | You just say whatever you think with no supporting
               | evidence.
               | 
               | Viewing ones unsupported opinions as more accurate than
               | science (especially in a medical context) is considered
               | delusional thinking by the psychiatric community and it's
               | definitely indicative for a referral to a psychiatrist.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | You haven't provided any relevant scientific evidence to
               | support your claim that it's healthy to shit in the
               | street.
               | 
               | Further, if you find the statement that uncontrollably
               | shitting in the street is unhealthy to be repetitive, too
               | bad. You need to seek medical attention.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | .Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you.
               | 
               | Also youre flame baiting which is a clear violation of HN
               | policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Not that it matters, but I gained ~60 votes from
               | repeatedly telling you to seek medical advice for your
               | uncontrollable bowels.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Anybody can say anything on the internet...
               | 
               | Because of all your flagged dead posts. It's literally
               | impossible to navigate this thread.
               | 
               | Takes more than one person to flag a post to a dead
               | status also.
               | 
               | Best of luck to you!
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | I hope it's a lot more than 30% of people not shitting in
               | the street.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Good lord based on this guy I am now worried...
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you.
               | 
               | Also youre flame baiting which is a clear violation of HN
               | policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I don't think saying you need to talk to a doctor is
               | flamebaiting...
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | In the manner you have been doing it... yes.
               | 
               | It doesnt matter what we think only what the mods think
               | friend.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I don't think they care...
        
           | rmilejczz wrote:
           | one instance of shitting in the street is hardly a sign of a
           | "significant problem" calm down hoss
        
             | Zetice wrote:
             | [flagged]
        
               | rmilejczz wrote:
               | "shit happens" as they say
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Thanks Doctor.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Telling someone to see a doctor isn't medical advice.
               | Telling someone not to shit in the street is also not
               | medical advice; it's basic human decency.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | your opinions in this thread have been flagged so many
               | times I can't vouch for them anymore.
               | 
               | you really need to take a class to improve your poor
               | reasoning skills.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | None of this changes the basic fact that you need medical
               | attention if you are shitting uncontrollably in the
               | street.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you. Also youre flame baiting which is a clear
               | violation of HN policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Like I said before, none of this matters to the core
               | point; regardless of SFs lack of public restrooms, no
               | healthy person is shitting in the street.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | @dang
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Are you at all aware how your behavior has been during
               | this conversation?
        
           | DoreenMichele wrote:
           | You and OP appear to agree there is a significant problem,
           | you just disagree where the "blame" lies.
           | 
           | OP suggests the built environment is insufficient. You
           | baselessly assume OP must have a serious medical issue as,
           | apparently, you can't imagine that the built environment is
           | really the appropriate villain to finger in this case.
           | 
           | Before anyone jumps up to accuse me of nefarious intent and
           | of being secretly on the side of "America's built environment
           | could stand to be improved" I'll just openly admit that's
           | exactly where I stand and save you a bit of furious typing.
        
             | lesfts wrote:
             | [flagged]
        
             | Zetice wrote:
             | Er, here I'm simply trying to make it clear that it's not
             | normal or in any way reasonable to shit in a city street in
             | the US if you are a healthy adult human.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | over half the world shits in the streets because of
               | inadequate public restroom access.
               | 
               | You're clearly not educated on this.
               | 
               | https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
               | ind...
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | And India has launched campaigns to stop that behaviour
               | including ads telling women not to marry a man who
               | doesn't have a toilet in his house
               | 
               | If you watch videos on street shifting in India it's
               | clearly not just a necessity or poverty, it's something
               | they actively seek out and prefer
               | 
               | Emergencies are Emergencies, like explosive vomiting or
               | something, but as a rule it should be an extreme
               | exception.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | This entire post is literally about public restroom
               | access starting from the original article.
               | 
               | You delusionally have some other discussion going on in
               | your head and you clearly need psychiatric help.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | I see. You have no idea what's going on right now.
               | 
               | You might even be posting from inside a mental
               | institution for all I know.
               | 
               | Well good luck to you.
               | 
               | Hope you get the mental health care you need.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I'm not shitting in the street because I drank too much
               | coffee, so maybe figure that out before worrying about
               | me.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you.
               | 
               | Also youre flame baiting which is a clear violation of HN
               | policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | ? Did you double post this?
        
               | AussieWog93 wrote:
               | Just stop engaging, bro. You're literally wasting your
               | weekend arguing with a guy who thinks that shitting on
               | the street is an acceptable thing to do, on a forum full
               | of terminally online nerds who are being swayed by social
               | arguments in favour of street shitting.
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | Whether the GP has a medical issue or not, people with bowel-
           | control problems still deserve to be able to travel the city.
           | There just need to be restrooms available for them. There's
           | no simple cure, so their doctor won't be able to solve that
           | problem for them.
        
             | subsistence234 wrote:
             | [flagged]
        
             | Zetice wrote:
             | I didn't make any statements about any of that, he said he
             | shat in the street uncontrollably. That's a medical issue.
        
               | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
               | Presumably "since I could find a restroom" was a typo,
               | and they meant the reason it happened was that they
               | [couldn't] find a restroom.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Nothing should result in a healthy person being unable to
               | control their bowels to the point of shitting in the
               | streets.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Says your uninformed medical opinion.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Lmao yes, my uninformed medical opinion does say that.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | I don't know if being proud of having ignorance regarding
               | healthcare is a good thing.
               | 
               | Does not bode well for your future.
               | 
               | Do you also think doctors are a scam?
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I'm not a doctor, but you should see one if you're
               | shitting in the street.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you.
               | 
               | Also youre flame baiting which is a clear violation of HN
               | policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Who or what I am is irrelevant; you shat in the street
               | due to a lack of control over your bowels. That's not
               | healthy, you should seek advice from a doctor.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | @dang
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Not sure what you expect to happen here...
        
           | nerdchum wrote:
           | I just drank a huge amount of Starbucks.
        
             | Zetice wrote:
             | Yeah that's my point; you shouldn't be literally unable to
             | control your bowels after consuming a beverage, even "a lot
             | of starbucks". That's a sign something is wrong.
             | 
             | There is no world in which a healthy person must shit on
             | the street.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | having regular bowel movements is actually really
               | healthy.. it's only an issue if youre in a place with no
               | public restrooms available
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | This isn't a regular bowel movement.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Regular as in "occuring at uniform intervals"
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | If your regular bowel movement involves shitting in the
               | street, you need immediate mental health intervention.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you. Also youre flame baiting which is a clear
               | violation of HN policy @dang.
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I feel like this is a live view into a mental breakdown.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | @dang
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | There aren't actually tags on HN, just fyi, but if there
               | were it'd be a backtick.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Coffee affects me strongly. What can I say. I get a
               | cleanse every morning for 3 bucks. Cleansing your
               | digestive tract is actually really good for you. People
               | pay big bucks for cleanses.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | thanks for your concern! I get a check up every year!
               | healthy as a horse!
               | 
               | Having regular bowel movements is actually a really
               | healthy thing.
               | 
               | It's only really a problem when there's no public
               | restrooms available.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | If actual an scientific white paper from PubMed with
               | research and data does not convince you that coffee has a
               | strong laxative effect on around 30% of people, then
               | there's not much else to say. There's still people who
               | believe the world is flat despite all evidence to the
               | contrary.
               | 
               | It's very difficult to have a discussion with someone who
               | prefers their own opinions over science.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Your citation is irrelevant; being unable to control your
               | bowels to the point of shitting in the street is not
               | healthy, and you should seek a doctor.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | You probably need to see a psychiatrist for thinking your
               | inaccurate medical opinions are true.
               | 
               | I feel sorry for your family.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | You feel sorry for my family because you shat in the
               | street and refuse to accept that you drinking Starbucks
               | is not a valid reason to do that?
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you. Also youre flame baiting which is a clear
               | violation of HN policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Why did you spam this all over the thread?
        
               | subsistence234 wrote:
               | he thinks whether something is true or not just depends
               | on how much upvotes it gets
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | More often than not: no, the cannot.
               | 
               | Do you believe medicine has the answer for _every_
               | chronic condition? Doctors are often unable to help you.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | > _100% of the time a doctor can help you in some way_
               | 
               | Nothing that starts with the claim "100%" is ever true,
               | you can be 100% certain of that.
               | 
               | Seriously though, you speak as if your digestive system
               | has never betrayed you, and therefore you're unfamiliar
               | with these matters.
               | 
               | Trust me: there are _some_ things your doctor cannot help
               | you with, at least, not to the point you can walk in a
               | city without public restrooms. Some things are not even
               | medical conditions -- and IBS is  "idiopathic" in many
               | cases, meaning doctors don't have a clue -- and some
               | conditions that you would consider anomalous actually
               | fall within the normal human spectrum.
               | 
               | You'll feel the urge to contradict me: don't. You
               | probably don't know about this, but both me and the other
               | commenter you're arguing with do. Realize that _your_
               | experience is not everybody else 's.
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | Are you a doctor or something? You're not this posters
               | friend nor in a social position where it's appropriate to
               | insist on their health status. (Pointing this out because
               | you might simply not know you're crossing a line.)
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | Yes, you asked a question, and then insisted further
               | because the answer isn't good enough for you. You're not
               | this persons friend, you're not this persons doctor and
               | you haven't claimed any medical experience. You're being
               | a weirdo. Let it go, dude.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | Nothing the OP said made it seem like they were fine
               | pooping in the street. If anything it's pretty clear they
               | don't think it's acceptable. They just don't think it's a
               | medical issue. You're insisting that it is, but you're
               | not their friend and you're not a doctor and you don't
               | have medical training in identifying what is normal and
               | abnormal bowel behavior. That's being a weirdo because
               | you're crossing a social line here. Even if you
               | personally think it is, you're not in a social position
               | where your insistence isn't incredibly rude.
               | 
               | Several people are telling you to chill out/back off not
               | because it's acceptable to shit on the street, but
               | because it's not acceptable to insist on the health
               | status of someone without first establishing either
               | rapport or appropriate relevant knowledge that justifies
               | breaking a social boundary. You have no justification, so
               | your suggest was a little nosey, and your insistence is
               | flagrantly rude.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | Dude I'm just gonna take my own advice and go play
               | Baldurs Gate lol. Have a nice day
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I don't think anyone cares if you are "here" or not.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Bet youre fun at parties....
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | I don't shit in the street on my way there.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Your opinions have been voted down so many times this
               | thread is filled with your dead comments and not a single
               | person has vouched for you other than me. I can no longer
               | vouch for you. Also youre flame baiting which is a clear
               | violation of HN policy. @dang
               | 
               | You probably need to take a class on improving your poor
               | reasoning skills and as another poster said: seek mental
               | health care.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | ...are you alright dude?
        
               | subsistence234 wrote:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37446500
               | 
               | >Coffee affects me strongly. What can I say. I get a
               | cleanse every morning for 3 bucks. Cleansing your
               | digestive tract is actually really good for you. People
               | pay big bucks for cleanses.
               | 
               | sounds like OP
               | 
               | 1. knows that he gets uncontrollable diarrhea from
               | coffee.
               | 
               | 2. enjoys it. why else do it every morning?
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | If you have irritable bowel syndrome, it's basically hard
               | to treat, very common, and solved by a simple thing:
               | availability of public restrooms.
               | 
               | It's not a shame to feel the sudden urge to take a shit.
               | What's a shame is blaming people for feeling the urge.
               | 
               | > _There is no world in which a healthy person must shit
               | on the street._
               | 
               | Healthy people are not the only ones a city must be
               | designed for. From Wikipedia: "About 10-15% of people in
               | the developed world are believed to be affected by IBS."
               | 
               | And note IBS is not the only reason to feel the sudden
               | urge to take a dump.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Around 30% of people experience a strong laxative effect
               | from coffee.
               | 
               | It's actually really healthy as it keeps your digestive
               | system and colon cleansed.
               | 
               | It's only an issue if there's no public restrooms.
               | 
               | I hope you learned something today.
               | 
               | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2338272/
               | 
               | https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-
               | science/wp/2...
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | If actual an scientific white paper from PubMed with
               | research and data does not convince you that coffee has a
               | strong laxative effect on around 30% of people, then
               | there's not much else to say.
               | 
               | There's still people who believe the world is flat
               | despite all evidence to the contrary.
               | 
               | It's very difficult to have a discussion with someone who
               | prefers their own opinions over science.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | You aren't arguing against what I said, 100% of people
               | could find coffee to be a strong laxative and it wouldn't
               | be relevant to what I actually suggested, which is you
               | should seek medical attention.
               | 
               | Shitting in the street is beyond what is considered
               | healthy.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Over half the population of the world shits in the
               | street.
               | 
               | It's not a medical symptom.
               | 
               | It's a symptom of poor access to restrooms.
               | 
               | https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-
               | ind...
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Also irrelevant; we're not talking about the rest of the
               | world, we're talking about an American city.
               | 
               | Coffee does not make people involuntarily shit, and if it
               | does for you, please speak to a doctor about it.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Yes its sad that an American city is having the same
               | public restroom access issues as third world countries.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | [flagged]
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Its sad that so many people have flagged your opinions
               | because they're so bad.
               | 
               | This whole comment chain is just a bunch of dead posts of
               | yours.
               | 
               | I even vouched for you on all of them but numerous people
               | kept flagging them.
               | 
               | You should really look into taking a class on improving
               | reasoning skills.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | None of that is relevant to you shitting uncontrollably
               | in the street, for which you need medical attention.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | @dang
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | And you think pestering someone like this is a winner?
        
           | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
           | I disagree with this. This could've been caused by taking a
           | morning coffee and having a long commute.
        
             | nerdchum wrote:
             | Exactly. You can get a venti coffee at Starbucks and get a
             | refill for 52 cents and if you're not from San Francisco,
             | you don't realize how brutal the public toilet situation is
             | until its too late.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | [sharing too much mode: on]
               | 
               | Coffee almost always makes me "move my bowels" pretty
               | fast. I solve this by making sure I never have coffee
               | unless a restroom is available.
               | 
               | A corollary to this is that long flights are a nightmare
               | to me. I mostly avoid having in-flight meals, if I can.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | Literally been to hundreds of cities all over the world
               | and have always been able to find a public restroom until
               | San Francisco!
               | 
               | Although I would imagine New York City might be the same,
               | never been there.
        
               | notagoodidea wrote:
               | Not sure about the corollary as long flights always have
               | restrooms and the time to use them. But maybe you are
               | just uncomfortable on airplane toilets which is fine.
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | Oh, I've used them. It's uncomfortable, plus there's
               | usually a long line both before and after you... Not the
               | best if you're in a hurry.
        
               | nerdchum wrote:
               | 30% of us has this laxative effect.
               | 
               | I think it's a very healthy effect to be honest.
               | 
               | It cleanses our digestive system.
        
               | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
               | Ugh, that sucks. You have my sincere sympathy!
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | San Francisco has tried. The first modern try was the JCDecaux
       | self-cleaning street toilets. (JCDecaux is really an ad company.
       | The street toilets are just a way to get ads on public property.)
       | The first problem was that that the US required them to be
       | wheelchair-accessable. So they were 3x as big and several times
       | more expensive than the smaller units in Paris.[1]
       | 
       | They are noted for working fine in tourist areas, and badly in
       | homeless areas. Making them big enough for wheelchair
       | accessibility makes them big enough for drug deals, too. They're
       | also far too expensive. The cleaning machinery is standard
       | industrial automation equipment from Telemechanique. I've seen
       | one opened for servicing. If you built a washing machine that
       | way, it would cost $20,000. It requires power, water, and a phone
       | line.
       | 
       | There's the Portland Loo.[2] This is designed for maximum
       | homeless proofing. Graffiti-resistant. Gratings at top and bottom
       | instead of solid walls, for reduced privacy. It's not self-
       | cleaning, but can be hosed down or pressure-washed. Only needs a
       | water line; power requirements are low enough to be supplied by a
       | solar panel. "It's not supposed to be a comfortable place" -
       | Portland Loo sales manager. Seems to work, but $500,000 installed
       | is a bit much, even with all that heavy stainless steel.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanisette
       | 
       | [2] https://portlandloo.com/
        
         | user3939382 wrote:
         | Same thing happened with accessibility of these in NYC. So
         | please tell me how it's better for the handicapped that there's
         | no restroom at all. It's ridiculous.
        
         | rcme wrote:
         | Requiring water and power seems like a pretty basic requirement
         | for a bathroom! Or are you expecting a sunlit composting
         | toilet?
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | Most of the US gets by just fine with gas stations and
         | restaurants providing them to the general public with no
         | questions asked. Maybe instead of spending huge amounts of
         | taxpayer funds treating the symptom, San Francisco should ask
         | itself why local businesses find it impossible to keep their
         | restrooms open?
        
           | yetanotherasian wrote:
           | It's not just SF. Was in the Venice/Santa Monica area
           | recently, every restaurant had a prominent sign "Restrooms
           | for customers only. No Exceptions"
           | 
           | My impression is the USA is falling apart. Every year people
           | get more rude, more selfish, break more laws, are less
           | courteous, there is more crime. I'm not sure I believe the
           | "crime is going down" stats. (hope that doesn't make me
           | stupid)
           | 
           | The problem as I see it is people stop reporting crimes
           | because they know the police will do nothing about it. I've
           | had my car broken into 5 times. I don't think I reported it
           | more than once. Further, some places like California, have
           | declared they won't prosecute property crime under a certain
           | amount so again, even less reporting. So, the numbers appear
           | to be going down but in reality they seem to be going up
           | (That's certainly my personal perception but maybe I'm being
           | influenced by sensational news and personal experience. I
           | definitely see objectively going up in traffic violations.
           | People don't seem to give a fuck anymore. They just do
           | whatever they want)
           | 
           | I have no idea how to fix it or influence people to be nicer
           | and more respectful of the law. Maybe it's the bankers
           | getting off from the financial crisis. Maybe it's the police
           | being perceived as part of the problem. All I know is more
           | and more I think I should go back to a 1st world country
           | because this one no longer feels like one.
        
             | RobRivera wrote:
             | >My impression is the USA is falling apart
             | 
             | In a theead about public toilets you move within 3
             | sentences to a vague thesis that the US is 'falling apart'
             | without any metrics to a definition of what that looks
             | like, a framework that is simpke, vague, generalized with
             | very little quantitative datapoints that I cannot help but
             | simply disregard the rest of what you have to say as
             | anything more than hearsay amateur opinions.
             | 
             | If you want to make a comparison between a pair of nation,
             | state your specific metric and bring numbers. Ive had
             | plenty of rude encounters in south america and europe
        
               | pb7 wrote:
               | Have to agree with this assessment of that comment. Of
               | all things to complain about, Americans are _not_ rude on
               | average. Really quite nice, possibly even overbearing at
               | times. Tells me GP hasn't travelled outside of the US and
               | if they had, sat at resorts the whole time.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | syndicatedjelly wrote:
             | Whatever city or state you've chosen to live in seems to be
             | falling apart. Move
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | It sounds to me like California is falling apart, not the
             | USA--your experience doesn't match mine at all.
             | 
             | Where I'm at, decreased crime rates are very obvious. Our
             | restrooms are all open, our grocery stores barely have any
             | staff monitoring the self checkouts, and we barely think
             | about locking our doors. People are as friendly as ever.
        
             | justnotworthit wrote:
             | You'll get a kick out of this comedic rant:
             | https://nitter.net/AmericaWeek/status/1694415737790898349
             | 
             | You can jump to 1:30.
        
           | grumple wrote:
           | The answer is pretty simple: because when you let non-
           | customers use the toilets, you're letting homeless, mentally
           | ill, drug addicts, or just shitty people use the toilets at a
           | far higher rate. They do insane things like smear shit and
           | blood on the walls and leave used needles lying around, or
           | they OD in the toilet, so it ends up becoming a real pain for
           | the businesses to keep them open and clean for their actual
           | customers. I don't know if Europe has the same issue with
           | toilets, but I do remember having to pay to use public
           | toilets there (in Paris, for example).
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | Right, but this is a very San Francisco problem. To the
             | extent it is a problem in the rest of US, it's not a big
             | enough problem to outweigh the benefits to the business of
             | offering a public restroom. Even most major cities I've
             | been in don't have trouble providing public restrooms,
             | there's a very specific set of cities that do.
             | 
             | San Francisco and Portland and Seattle _could_ spend tons
             | of money trying to fill a need that most businesses in the
             | US fill for free, or they could spend that money solving
             | the root problem.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | The root problem is drug addiction.
        
               | sethammons wrote:
               | And mental illness; which is likely related
        
               | Modified3019 wrote:
               | I cannot fathom how you could possibly think how fecal
               | vandalism just a San Francisco problem.
               | 
               | Cleaning literal blood and shit off the walls is a shared
               | experience of "retail service" workers everywhere. This
               | is both a hazard to workers and the customers that keep
               | the place running.
               | 
               | Hell I had to do it at least weekly in an expensive
               | sandwich shop in a small midwest city downtown that was
               | 99% middle/upper class whites and no homeless or druggies
               | in sight.
               | 
               | I cannot imagine having open bathrooms in an area
               | populated with those more likely inflict problems.
        
               | x0x0 wrote:
               | As a data point, I personally know the owner of multiple
               | restaurants in Minneapolis. He has very happily kept the
               | bathrooms entirely closed to the public since covid --
               | breaking the law while doing so -- because people are
               | trash and, if allowed, will wreck the bathrooms.
               | Including shitting on the toilet bowl, the walls, floor,
               | etc; drug use; and bathing in the sink, which makes a
               | giant mess that he or his employees have to clean.
        
               | jmspring wrote:
               | It's not just San Francisco, cities all over CA have
               | similar issues (as well as the west coast - Portland,
               | Seattle, etc).
        
               | fnimick wrote:
               | And how exactly would you solve the root problem of
               | _other cities_ sending their homeless populations to
               | those areas? Make it more miserable to be homeless there
               | so they are forced to go somewhere else?
        
               | pauldenton wrote:
               | Law and order is one way. Homeless don't seem to gather
               | in cities with Broken Window policing
        
               | jefurii wrote:
               | So your solution is to criminalize poverty and mental
               | illness. I hope you never lose your job and have trouble
               | paying your rent.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | I guess SF just have to stop the practice of dumping
               | their problem on the rest of the country?
               | 
               | "Between 2005 to 2017, the city of San Francisco sent
               | 10,500 homeless people out of town by bus.[1]"
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_homeless_relocation
               | _pr...
               | 
               | According to the Guardian the free tickets to SF are in
               | the 100s, while SF sent 10 000 away.
               | 
               | https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-
               | interactive/2017/dec/...
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | How are there fewer homeless on display in Europe? Are the
             | governments there more empowered to use force to take care
             | of the problem?
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | > Maybe instead of spending huge amounts of taxpayer funds
           | treating the symptom, San Francisco should ask itself why
           | local businesses find it impossible to keep their restrooms
           | open?
           | 
           | SF businesses already have to deal with a near daily hosing
           | down of human feces from the street in front of their stores.
           | If they opened up their bathrooms to vagrants it would just
           | double the number of places they're literally cleaning shit
           | up.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | That's exactly my point: that is not a problem in most
             | other cities. Which is why other cities can have the
             | bathrooms open. For San Francisco to spend money on truly
             | public bathrooms is putting lipstick on a pig.
        
               | yazzku wrote:
               | San Francisco has the problem of inequality and an
               | incompetent management, backed by people who wish the
               | "homeless problem" just magically disappeared overnight.
               | 
               | The toilets and piles of human defecation rolling down
               | the hill are a consequence of the above, and unsolvable
               | until the above is addressed first. You can't borrow
               | ideas from other cities around the world because those
               | don't have rampant inequality.
        
               | pirate787 wrote:
               | The obsession with "Inequality" is misplaced envy. The
               | issue is government policies that enable and support
               | lawbreaking.
        
               | xg15 wrote:
               | So arrest all the homeless then?
        
               | pb7 wrote:
               | If they break the law then yeah, why not? They're not
               | above the law.
        
               | Gibbon1 wrote:
               | General principal among civilized peoples is you can't
               | punish people for breaking laws they they are unable to
               | follow through no fault of their own.
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | "Through no fault of their own" is the point of
               | contention with this topic. One side believes the
               | homeless are mostly victims of circumstance, the other
               | that they're mostly victims of their own poor choices and
               | addictions.
        
               | acuozzo wrote:
               | Wow. HN is one of the few places I'd expect to encounter
               | someone stuck in Kohlberg Stage 4.
        
               | ethanbond wrote:
               | Eh, New York City would absolutely benefit from more
               | public restrooms (paid or not). Central Park is a prime
               | example.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _that is not a problem in most other cities_
               | 
               | The well-meant and originally-necessary drive to end
               | criminalising poverty overcorrected into absurdity by
               | equating poverty with mental illness, and compassion for
               | the mentally ill with not arresting people who smear
               | feces over restroom walls. This fallacy, which dovetailed
               | with anti-police sentiments, is most pronounced in San
               | Francisco. But it's also present in other American
               | cities.
        
         | rewmie wrote:
         | > JCDecaux is really an ad company. The street toilets are just
         | a way to get ads on public property.
         | 
         | At the risk of going off on a tangent, JCDecaux is actually a
         | marketing company which sells ad space to the highest bidder.
         | Their business model consists of offering municipalities free
         | public equipment/urban infrastructure such as bus stops, public
         | toilets, public fountains, etc, and in exchange have the right
         | to use that to post curated ads.
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | > San Francisco has tried
         | 
         | I wouldnt say they've tried. Trying includes not letting the
         | homeless ruin it.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | At this point it seems cheaper to go about solving the upstream
         | problems.
        
         | Karrot_Kream wrote:
         | America also doesn't have paid toilets like Europe and many
         | parts of Asia thanks to a bans pushed by https://en.wikipedia.o
         | rg/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_i.... Before this America
         | had many paid toilets. In Europe and Asia often the toilet
         | requires a nominal fee (sometimes unfortunately expensive
         | though) to keep out drug addicts or other folks at the bottom,
         | but due to the bans from the campaign cities with huge drug
         | problems are hamstrung from offering paid toilets.
         | 
         | I think it's important to have free options but to blanket ban
         | a paid toilet contributes to the restroom issues we see now in
         | urban areas IMO.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | I think we should address the root problem, which is Jack
           | Nicholson, who convinced everyone that mental hospitals are
           | bad.
        
             | mjevans wrote:
             | Both you, and the historical commentary reply are correct.
             | 
             | Mental hospitals _were_ very bad, and the problem continues
             | to be very bad.
             | 
             | However the solution was never going to be END the old
             | social program. We see the results in any major urban area
             | today, it's what everyone in this thread is talking about.
             | 
             | It's far too easy in politics to rally around a common
             | 'goal' of 'stop doing X / being X' (E.G. BRexit) without
             | the 'replacement' action selected. If 'and do nothing' is
             | really what's supported that should be fine as an
             | affirmative assertion. 'Stop doing X and do nothing
             | instead'. Or (as an example) 'End sanitariums and make
             | mental health a public drunkenness level crime while
             | funding the police and jail / hospital systems for
             | treatment'.
             | 
             | The problem is lack of agreement and follow through on a
             | plan leading to the default failure mode of the universe;
             | everything fails in uncontrolled ways.
        
             | lokar wrote:
             | They were bad, very bad
        
               | jl6 wrote:
               | It does seem like there should be some sane middle ground
               | between abusing patients and throwing them onto the
               | street.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | Yes, but surely giving mother nature the task instead is
               | not the proper reform.
               | 
               | Psychiatric medication have come a long way since the
               | 60s, so running wards should be alot simpler than back
               | then with all those insane displine procedures.
        
               | Natsu wrote:
               | Part of the problem is that it works like prison, where
               | some of what makes it awful are crazy assholes ruining
               | things for everyone else dialed up to 11.
        
               | Slava_Propanei wrote:
               | [dead]
        
       | hedora wrote:
       | For a while, the highway-adjacent gas station and restaurant
       | bathrooms were shut down in California because of covid.
       | 
       | I suspect that many ditches got "irrigated" that year.
        
       | aantix wrote:
       | Is this a big city, east coast, west coast problem?
       | 
       | I feel like in the Midwest most businesses treat this as a loss
       | leader and want you to come in and use their bathrooms.
        
       | AussieWog93 wrote:
       | Reading through this thread about open drug markets, cars being
       | smashed into and homeless people smearing shit on the walls, I
       | feel extremely grateful to live in Australia.
       | 
       | Even in the "bad areas" of major cities, you don't get shit like
       | this. Worst I've seen regularly are junkies scamming on Facebook
       | marketplace, or minor shoplifting.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | There are a few cities that have explicitly declared themselves
         | sanctuaries for this kind of lawlessness and the results are
         | unsurprising. Most of the country is nothing like this.
        
           | vladf wrote:
           | What are some non-sanctuary cities which also have year round
           | temperate, but not too hot or humid, weather?
        
       | jimt1234 wrote:
       | I'm a dude in his 50s now (that still feels weird to say), and I
       | have to pee all the damn time. Going out in public always
       | involves studying the restroom situation ahead of time. Even so,
       | I've pee'ed in countless alleys, side-roads, and parking lots;
       | I'm always discreet as possible, but I still don't like to do it.
       | 
       | New York City is the absolute worst. Disgusting doesn't bother
       | me, but why are the damn subway restrooms always closed?!
        
         | Arainach wrote:
         | Vandalism and drugs. It doesn't have to be everyone - just
         | enough people - but if you had to go clean up blood and feces
         | smeared over everything once a week, would you stay in that
         | job?
        
         | chrisco255 wrote:
         | You know why they're always closed.
        
         | jdeibele wrote:
         | I had a similar problem at probably a similar age. Turned out
         | that it was an enlarged prostate. Had surgery and things are
         | much better now. The urologist said he typically saw it with
         | men 10 years older.
         | 
         | One bad side effect was that urine was being held in my
         | kidneys, damaging them. So I'd urge you to get it checked out
         | sooner rather than later.
        
       | jupp0r wrote:
       | Restrooms in the US are super easy to find, compared to Germany
       | where I grew up. It's not only public restrooms (at least here on
       | the west coast), but it's also completely acceptable to walk into
       | a restaurant or store and just ask if you can use theirs. Several
       | visiting relatives and friends from Europe were completely amazed
       | by this. Contrast that to the fact that lots of public restrooms
       | in Europe cost a small fee - with cash in the right small value
       | coins that you of course don't have on you when you need to go
       | urgently.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | I'll never understand why more cities haven't invested in the
       | Portland Loo or similar concepts for public bathrooms...
       | 
       | https://portlandloo.com/
        
         | wyre wrote:
         | Afaik it's cuz they cost like $300k
        
           | standardUser wrote:
           | It's literally that, a FAR more expensive permanent
           | structure, or shit and piss on the streets. End of list. If
           | you've ever lived in a Western US city I think you'd be
           | really, really inclined towards option #1.
        
           | mycodebreaks wrote:
           | Not a big amount though for city governments. They do tend to
           | overspend anyways on building such facilities.
           | 
           | https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-10-20/san-
           | fran...
        
       | Overtonwindow wrote:
       | Europe solved this problem ages ago with pay toilets and regular
       | police patrol. Some even clean themselves which has an added
       | benefit of dissuading long term residents. The problem has been
       | solved but city's avoid this because NIMBY's will say it
       | incentives drugs, sex, homelessness, etc.
       | 
       | Citizens do not trust that the government will maintain and
       | police them properly, and I think the homeless and sanitary
       | situation in San Francisco is a perfect example.
        
         | aeternum wrote:
         | The thought that San Francisco homeless would pay to use the
         | bathroom is quaint. Why pay when you can use a sidewalk/bush
         | without repercussion?
        
         | jaclaz wrote:
         | Define Europe, please.
        
         | tekla wrote:
         | The problem is that some people do not want pay toilets. They
         | want free public toilets and would call Europe
         | backward/racist/whatever for making people pay for toilets.
        
           | spicymaki wrote:
           | I would not mind a reasonably priced pay toilet. The toilet
           | should make enough revenue to pay for itself ideally.
        
           | electriclove wrote:
           | Even if you want to pay, it is hard to find toilets that are
           | clean and do not have a big line. It is a horrible situation,
           | especially when visiting with young children.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I won't assume what people would call "Europe" which is a big
           | place. However, it's certainly true that pay toilets are not
           | a thing in the US in general and certainly not in train
           | stations, restaurants, etc. as you at least sometimes see in
           | other countries.
           | 
           | It's probably complicated at this point in that I assume most
           | people in the US don't carry change today and tap to pay
           | small amounts is fairly nascent.
        
           | Zetice wrote:
           | Because it is backwards, state governments ought to supply
           | and maintain enough bathrooms that the streets remain
           | sanitary.
           | 
           | Sanitation is one of the main things we need a government
           | for; failure here is unacceptable.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | The only people who pee on the streets are drunks and
             | they're not going to a public toilet anyway.
        
               | Zetice wrote:
               | Why not?
        
           | harlanji wrote:
           | If a person were begging outside of a toilet I'm sure someone
           | would help them out until it becomes a regular hustle like
           | people outside of grocery stores is.
        
           | jen20 wrote:
           | Some people don't want to pay for anything. Those people can
           | be ignored most of the time.
           | 
           | Would they rather have toilets that cost a dollar to use or
           | no toilets?
        
             | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
             | Someone who needs to pee is going to pee, whether they have
             | a dollar to spare or not; I'd rather they are able to pee
             | in a restroom rather than on the grass, sidewalk, or
             | someone's doorway. It is cheaper and healthier for society
             | as a whole if people do their business in restrooms, which
             | is basically the reason why we've converged on a society
             | where toilets exist in the first place, rather than fleets
             | of trucks circling around and washing the streets
             | constantly.
        
         | WillPostForFood wrote:
         | _Citizens do not trust that the government will maintain and
         | police them properly_
         | 
         | This is the problem not NIMBYs, It is the correct assessment
         | that the bathrooms will not be policed or maintained. If they
         | were policed and maintained, no one would even notice them.
        
         | thatfrenchguy wrote:
         | Public toilets in France are frankly horribly maintained and
         | smelly (wtf is wrong with ventilation there?) that San
         | Francisco is a toilet paradise in comparaison.
        
         | electriclove wrote:
         | The toilet situation in Europe is pretty bad from the few
         | places I've been: France, Italy, Greece, Spain, UK. You can't
         | find clean, free toilets and there is a line to use many of the
         | toilets all the time. Most toilets do not have disposable seat
         | covers, some don't even have toilet seats, some don't have
         | toilet paper, etc. It is a sad state of affairs and makes me
         | miss the much better (though still lacking) situation in the
         | US.
        
           | Roark66 wrote:
           | Perhaps it is area dependent in UK. When I lived in the North
           | I think access to toilets was a lot worse than down South. We
           | went visiting to many tourist places like the east coast,
           | Yorkshire moors, various historic places. All these trips had
           | to be planned carefully as usually there were no toilets
           | available. Even in food places in such tourist areas. The
           | only place one could always find a toilet at were petrol
           | stations. Another thing is toilet availability for people
           | going for a night out.
           | 
           | In contrast when I lived in London I always felt access to
           | public toilets was pretty good. There were lots of places
           | like McDonald's, Starbucks etc that always let the public use
           | their toilets for free. Then there are free toilets on many
           | large rail stations past the barriers as well as paid toilets
           | before the barriers. Finally there are free standing paid
           | toilets dotted around the city. Back then one had to put a
           | coin to open them.
           | 
           | Personally I think London is one of the better European
           | cities in this regard.
        
       | ARandomerDude wrote:
       | I don't understand this. I've lived in America my entire life
       | (I'm roughly 40) and literally never been unable to find a public
       | restroom.
       | 
       | I'm sure there are certain cities where it's harder (maybe NYC,
       | etc.) but "Public restrooms are hard to find in _America_ " is
       | stretching the truth pretty far.
        
         | marcusverus wrote:
         | Yeah, I've never encountered this issue outside of an urban
         | area.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | You've hit the core. Whoever wrote this is clearly an
           | urbanite through and through.
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | Even in cities it just depends on where you ask. A little
             | hole in the wall pizza joint where the bathroom involves
             | tredging through the code violations in the kitchen? Yeah
             | nah they aren't letting you in there unless you have a six
             | year old with you who is threatening to pee right then and
             | there. Your standard urban mcdonalds or other new
             | construction building will have full bathrooms by code on
             | the other hand. And if there is some code or whatever, just
             | ask. They say you need to make a purchase to legally
             | exclude homeless people but if you don't appear homeless
             | they just give you the code without having to bother with
             | that in my experience. Not to mention every single bar you
             | see in a city will have a bathroom and zero police that for
             | patrons.
        
         | bachmeier wrote:
         | Yep. People from large coastal cities see nothing wrong with
         | openly mocking Kansas when they're talking to me. I ask them
         | about the public restroom situation where they live, and I tell
         | them they're living in a primitive area if they don't even have
         | easy access to public restrooms. For some reason they think I'm
         | joking. They're just so used to putting up with that and other
         | things that make life miserable that they don't know what life
         | is like in the more advanced parts of the country.
        
           | akhosravian wrote:
           | While there are trade offs in every place one chooses to
           | live, and can relate to the eye rolling elitism of folks
           | who've never visited most of America as a person who grew up
           | in Tennessee. I think you overplay your hand referring to a
           | state in the bottom third of GDP and growth rate with
           | slightly above median GDP per capita as an advanced part of
           | the country.
        
             | arcbyte wrote:
             | Free public restrooms and other facilities. No homeless. No
             | pollution, clean air and skies. Massive food self
             | sufficiency. I'm not a Kansas fan exactly but I wouldn't
             | balk at calling it advanced in terms of quality of life.
        
               | ImPostingOnHN wrote:
               | each of the qualities you described are also qualities of
               | a sufficiently large empty plot of land
        
               | stonogo wrote:
               | There are literally thousands of homeless people in
               | Kansas. Maybe "food self sufficiency" refers to farming,
               | but nearly ten percent of the state is on food stamps,
               | and more than ten percent lives below the poverty line.
               | And there is nowhere "no pollution" is _less true_ than
               | in agriculture belts:
               | https://www.kcur.org/news/2022-03-29/as-fertilizer-
               | pollutes-...
               | 
               | I believe that your quality of life is great. I also
               | believe that is not universally true for Kansans -- and I
               | think that these issues exist across America, and
               | pretending you can just move to avoid them is a little
               | childish.
        
               | influx wrote:
               | Actually being able to buy a home is a big plus.
        
       | thrusong wrote:
       | Shameless plug: I developed a site to help with this in my city
       | Winnipeg called Winnipee.
       | 
       | It went viral last summer and had a flurry of activity with
       | community contributions (locations, updates). Winter came,
       | traffic levelled off, and it didn't spike again this summer
       | (though it has remained stable).
       | 
       | I tried to track whether it was OK to use the washroom without a
       | purchase, wheelchair accessibility, size. When I worked at
       | McDonald's, an executive told me they wanted their customers to
       | know there was always a bathroom they could use anywhere in the
       | world even if they weren't making a purchase this visit.
       | 
       | AFAIK, Starbucks had a similar policy for a long time.
       | 
       | It was interesting to see how some locations featured immediately
       | locked down their washrooms.
       | 
       | I had a Tim Hortons franchise owner email me and freak out, so we
       | marked her location as "purchase required."
       | 
       | It's been pretty brutal here with the meth crisis, though, so I
       | also get it.
       | 
       | At the end of the day, I would love for our governments to
       | provide taxpayer funded facilities around the city and even on
       | several of our major highways. We used to have a lot here but
       | they closed almost all of them.
       | 
       | You can check it out: https://www.winnipee.com
        
         | nicbou wrote:
         | If you don't already, you should strongly consider improving
         | the data on Open Street Map. Many apps use that data. I
         | frequently use OsmAnd to find public bathrooms.
        
         | navhc wrote:
         | Have you considered merging efforts with Where Is Public
         | Toilet? Service has existed for many years and seems to have a
         | decent amount of locations in Winnipeg
        
         | cscurmudgeon wrote:
         | > At the end of the day, I would love for our governments to
         | provide taxpayer funded facilities around the city and even on
         | several of our major highways. We used to have a lot here but
         | they closed almost all of them.
         | 
         | You are almost there. Now we should ask why this happened:
         | 
         | > but they closed almost all of them
         | 
         | There is no civic sense in large swathes of the population.
         | Strict enforcement of basic rules will help us a lot here.
        
           | Arainach wrote:
           | > There is no civic sense in large swathes of the population.
           | Strict enforcement of basic rules will help us a lot here
           | 
           | Strict enforcement of basic rules against a subset of the
           | population while letting off other groups is a major
           | contributor to the lack of civic sense.
        
             | rayiner wrote:
             | I assure you that rich white people defecating in the
             | streets will be treated the same way as poor brown people
             | doing the same thing.
        
               | woodruffw wrote:
               | This is baselessly asserted: rich people _consistently_
               | receive gentler treatment at the hands of the police for
               | similar crimes[1]. Black Americans get dinged for this
               | twice: not only are they poorer on average than Whites,
               | but are also disproportionately likely to be brutalized
               | or killed by law enforcement[2]. When Black people _do_
               | die in custody, their deaths are more likely to be
               | characterized with pseudomedical terms like "excited
               | delirium[3]."
               | 
               | [1]:
               | https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdf/10.1086/696355
               | 
               | [2]: https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2022/12/22/policin
               | g_survey...
               | 
               | [3]: https://www.psychiatry.org/File%20Library/About-
               | APA/Organiza...
        
               | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
               | ah yes the just and even handed laws that prevent both
               | the rich and the poor from sleeping under bridges.
        
           | chopin wrote:
           | In Japan that's not a problem. It begs the question what they
           | do differently.
        
             | plagiarist wrote:
             | There is no way to get half of America to wear a 1-ply
             | cotton cloth for their countrymen during a pandemic, and
             | much of the other half is too fucking stupid to pull that
             | cloth up over their noses even after two years of practice.
             | I think the idea of pleasant bathrooms is a lost cause.
        
               | meany wrote:
               | I don't think the data supports this assertion. I think
               | the perception that this is true is likely due to news
               | click bait designed to generate revenue based on
               | fostering outrage. Here is an excerpt from USC public
               | health article.
               | 
               | Overall, since late March 2020, between 80% and 90% of
               | U.S. adults consistently have viewed wearing a mask or
               | face covering as an effective way to stay safe from the
               | coronavirus, according to the Understanding Coronavirus
               | in America Tracking Survey, an ongoing nationally
               | representative internet-based panel survey of more than
               | 6,000 people aged 18 and older (see Data Source).
               | 
               | Similarly, about 90% reported wearing a mask in the
               | previous seven days to keep safe from the virus, although
               | there are significant differences by locale, age, gender,
               | race, income, education, and other sociodemographic
               | factors. Generally, people who live in rural areas, are
               | younger, are male, are white, have lower incomes, and
               | have less education are less likely to report wearing
               | masks, the survey found (Figure 1).
               | 
               | Source article: https://healthpolicy.usc.edu/evidence-
               | base/most-u-s-adults-w...
        
               | plagiarist wrote:
               | Thank you, that is better than what my perception was.
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | America's dysfunctional urban areas are a manifestation of
           | American culture. And no--it's not about the level of social
           | services. Many countries with less wealth and fewer social
           | services have nice, orderly urban areas. It's that urban
           | living requires enforcement of order and norms among the
           | population that Americans are unwilling to do.
        
             | ddd00001 wrote:
             | One of the main issues is our system of government. It is
             | set up in a way that even one veto-point allows it to
             | default to lawlessness. In many urban areas you have that
             | veto point in the form of a progressive Board of
             | Supervisors/local government, progressive District Attorney
             | or very commonly, progressive judges. Just one progressive
             | in the chain of command and it results in everything being
             | progressive and no consequences for disorder.
        
         | lazyasciiart wrote:
         | McDonalds in the US 1000% does not have bathrooms available to
         | non-customers. Was that a long time ago, or is that actually
         | the policy in Canada today?
        
           | lozenge wrote:
           | 90-95% of McDonalds are franchised, so the lofty ideals of a
           | McDonalds executive are entirely detached from what
           | restaurants actually do. I doubt they are sending secret
           | shoppers just to check the bathroom availability.
        
           | zzzeek wrote:
           | I use McDonalds bathrooms in a pinch quite often. I don't ask
           | or anything, I walk in, it's there, nobody cares. However, it
           | depends very much on location, and I do this only in suburban
           | areas. if you go into Manhattan, bathrooms that are easy to
           | spot are very much locked down, if there is even one at all,
           | so you have to try to find less obvious bathrooms that don't
           | attract a lot of attention from street traffic.
        
           | a2tech wrote:
           | I've been up and down this country and outside of the
           | pandemic one certainty had been that if I need to piss and I
           | see a McDonald's I know I'm covered. This changed during the
           | pandemic since many of their lobbies were closed. But in the
           | last year I haven't seen a McDonald's that you couldn't walk
           | into and use the facilities. Now they're not always the
           | cleanest bathrooms, but they've always been there.
           | 
           | People talk a lot of shit about McDonald's but there's a lot
           | to be said for a rock solid never changing option anywhere in
           | the country.
        
             | riffic wrote:
             | Hotel lobbies also have great facilities
        
               | Gibbon1 wrote:
               | Supermarkets. Big Box stores. Malls always. Bars usually,
               | buy a soda, tip the bartender.
               | 
               | One time I availed myself of a 24 hour porn shop at 3am.
               | The bathroom was spotless.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Even the ones where they lock the bathroom you don't need to
           | make a purchase. I just ask the worker to buzz me in and they
           | let me. Its not making or breaking their paycheck to police
           | the bathroom so they generally don't care if you look like
           | you won't cause a mess in there.
        
           | thrusong wrote:
           | This was a pretty long time ago, like early-Millennium. It
           | was my first job and I was 15.
           | 
           | I saw people come in, use the bathroom, and leave, so I asked
           | the executive what I was supposed to do.
           | 
           | We were a corporate store and usually a test site for new
           | products and procedures.
        
             | pulvinar wrote:
             | >This was a pretty long time ago, like early-Millennium.
             | 
             | LOL, yep, I'm officially old!
        
               | thrusong wrote:
               | Sorry, but as I approach 40, 20-23 years ago does seem
               | like a long time. It went by in the blink of an eye,
               | though.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | It only gets faster
        
           | bonniemuffin wrote:
           | Yeah I've been in many urban US McDonalds where the bathrooms
           | are locked and you need to get a code from the cashier to get
           | into them.
        
           | rascul wrote:
           | I've never used a McDonald's bathroom where I was required to
           | make a purchase. Sometimes the bathrooms are located around
           | the corner from the counter, near a door, in such a fashion
           | that the employees can't generally tell if someone comes in,
           | uses the bathroom, and leaves. I suspect it varies based on
           | location.
        
             | bdw5204 wrote:
             | I've only ever seen a McDonald's bathroom that requires a
             | purchase in NYC around 15 years ago. I doubt that's changed
             | in the years since unless the city made customers only
             | bathrooms illegal.
        
             | gabereiser wrote:
             | This has been my experience on this planet as well.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I can't speak to in US cities (where indeed restaurants tend
           | to police non-customer restroom use more regularly) but I've
           | never had an issue with using a McDonald's restroom when I've
           | been driving someplace in the US.
        
             | notacoward wrote:
             | Same experience here. Just got back from a six-day driving
             | trip where my wife and I used McDonalds restrooms without
             | issue multiple times. Some of them were even quite nice, as
             | such things go. But I've also found myself in dire straits
             | in cities, with nothing truly public and the
             | McDonalds/Starbucks all locked down. The most dangerous
             | place I've been in the last several years was an MBTA
             | restroom (I was desperate). So much for "walkable cities" I
             | guess, but good luck finding a proponent who will engage
             | with that aspect.
        
               | paleotrope wrote:
               | Boston is extremely difficult to find public bathrooms
               | especially around the Common/open drug marketplace.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | You're not really that far from either Faneuil
               | Hall/Quincy Market or North Station there. Can't speak to
               | how easy it is to find one in any of the local hotels. Of
               | course, in the latter case it helps to look the part and
               | not look too clueless.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | > Of course, in the latter case it helps to look the part
               | and not look too clueless.
               | 
               | This is not just applicable to using the restroom as a
               | non-paying customer. You can pretty much go anywhere if
               | you just don't look guilty of doing something your not
               | meant to be doing. They also say carrying a clipboard and
               | looking in a hurry increases your "getting away" with it,
               | whatever "it" may be.
        
           | barsonme wrote:
           | I think this is a pretty broad generalization. Personally,
           | I've never once been refused access to a McDonald's restroom.
           | 
           | I haven't been to a McDonald's in a large city (like downtown
           | Seattle), so perhaps it's different there.
           | 
           | But so much of the world exists outside of cities :)
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | I went to a McDonald's in Seattle's SoDo in 2021 that had a
             | bouncer at the door, and the bathroom had super annoying
             | blue-lighting. It certainly looked like ordering before
             | using the bathroom was the right thing to do.
             | 
             | There was a ton of street camping around there.
        
               | rufus_foreman wrote:
               | The blue lighting makes it harder to find a vein.
        
               | rayiner wrote:
               | Yikes.
        
           | wkat4242 wrote:
           | Same in Spain. There's an access code printed on the
           | receipts. At least in the ones in tourist areas. Though you
           | can wait till someone comes out or ask another customer.
        
             | tough wrote:
             | In some areas of Spain, restaurants and bars that occupy
             | the public space with terraces are obliged by law to
             | provide bathrooms to anyone asking if I recall correctly
             | 
             | A counter-balance act
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | They have that for some restaurants in the US, but you can
             | ask the worker and they will just give you the code.
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | It's entirely a city/suburb/rural divide.
           | 
           | If you're in an area with homeless restrooms can't be found.
           | 
           | If you're not, they're plentiful and free.
        
           | eyelidlessness wrote:
           | It must vary a lot by location even in the US. When I used to
           | bother asking, it was almost universally customer-only in
           | urban and many suburban areas... and almost always got me
           | strange looks for even bothering to ask in more remote areas
           | (where they are often clustered next to a couple gas stations
           | along a freeway exit).
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | rawgabbit wrote:
         | A few years ago I visited three different McDonalds in
         | Washington DC. All three were newly renovated in downtown.
         | 
         | All three restrooms were unlocked and disgusting. After
         | notifying the staff I figured out some homeless would vent
         | their rage by literally smearing their feces on the walls. When
         | the staff clean it up, they would do it again.
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | They have the right to refuse entry to homeless people. They
           | should exercise it.
        
             | hattmall wrote:
             | How are you going to say it's because they are homeless and
             | not whatever minority.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | Wouldn't the burden of proof lie with whomever is making
               | the claim of bias? And it would be easily countered with
               | surveillance footage showing just one white male homeless
               | guy getting turned away.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | The McDonalds in downtown Dallas, at least for a time, played
           | classical music outside as well as inside. The theory was
           | that the homeless wouldn't hang around as much. This was back
           | in the 80s when my mom worked downtown, and it was common
           | water cooler conversation. I'm sure as a manager, you're
           | pretty much willing to try anything to avoid the situation
           | you've described. Making it even harder, the location is one
           | block away from the central Greyhound bus station.
        
             | Modified3019 wrote:
             | My favorite is when places use opera music to drive away
             | loiterers.
        
           | Gunnerhead wrote:
           | That's seriously disgusting. But even without mental illness,
           | you still have people that seem like they don't know bathroom
           | etiquette. I worked at a retailer during college that had a
           | public bathroom, seemingly normal people still did the most
           | disgusting messes in the toilets that I was left to clean.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | > After notifying the staff I figured out some homeless would
           | vent their rage by literally smearing their feces on the
           | walls. When the staff clean it up, they would do it again.
           | 
           | When you say "I figured", do you mean it is a complete
           | fabrication, something that exists only in your mind? What
           | should we take from that?
           | 
           | I've lived and spent my time in major cities most of my life.
           | I've used many public urban bathrooms. Like many things in
           | cities, they are used much more heavily and often are less
           | clean. Some have been disgusting in places, but I've never
           | seen what you imagine.
           | 
           | > some homeless
           | 
           | What does that mean? Are you saying you think all homeless
           | people are essentially people who might do what is in your
           | head? I interact with lots of people who appear to lack homes
           | (I wouldn't know without asking), daily or a bit less. They
           | are just people, just like you are people; they might express
           | similar extreme stereotypes or imagine crazy things about
           | some group; they might be just about anything or anyone.
           | 
           | If you really imagine these things, try talking to people.
           | Just like every other stereotyped group, you'll find out they
           | are just human beings (which are social animals).
           | 
           | EDIT: edited quite a bit
        
             | mixmastamyk wrote:
             | [dead]
        
         | seb1204 wrote:
         | Great to see that openstreetmap is being used. The attribution
         | needs to be fixed though. Did you add the toilets to OSM as
         | well?
        
         | jimt1234 wrote:
         | Love it. Please scale this to other cities and call it
         | "wannapee.com".
         | 
         | I'd always assumed an app like this already existed, like Yelp
         | for public restrooms. I never actually looked, though.
        
           | navhc wrote:
           | There is already an app for this, called Where Is Public
           | Toilet that covers most of north America and parts of Europe
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | If it were to be Yelp like, I could only imagine the
           | references to the worst toilet in Scotland.
        
             | supportengineer wrote:
             | Ah, laddie, ye won't believe the gem I found in the heart
             | of Scotland! This public restroom, I tell ya, it's a wee
             | slice of heaven for the weary traveler.
             | 
             | First off, it's cleaner than me own shack on a good day. No
             | grime, no filth - it's like they've hired elves to scrub
             | the floors. And the smell, well, it's fresher than the
             | Scottish Highlands after a spring rain.
             | 
             | The facilities themselves? Aye, they've got stalls with
             | doors that lock properly, and plenty of toilet paper to
             | spare. The sink's got hot water that flows like a mountain
             | stream, and the soap is as fragrant as a bloomin' meadow.
             | 
             | But here's the real kicker, they've got artwork on the
             | walls! You can stand there and admire the local talent
             | while you do your business.
             | 
             | So, if ye ever find yerself in Scotland, make a beeline for
             | this restroom, and you'll be singin' its praises like a
             | bagpiper at a ceilidh. Aye, it's a public convenience
             | that's pure gold!
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | That sounds like this data should essentially be an overpass-
         | turbo (OpenStreetMap) query away, with an overlay for reviews.
         | Why build a new dataset from the ground up with (c)Winnipee at
         | the bottom so nobody can reuse the data when the project is
         | inevitably abandoned (even if that's fifty years down the
         | line)?
         | 
         | Edit: example data query http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1A2I
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | Here: https://mapcomplete.org/toilets
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | > AFAIK, Starbucks had a similar policy for a long time.
         | 
         | >It was interesting to see how some locations featured
         | immediately locked down their washrooms.
         | 
         | If you can just walk in (no passcode or any) then it is open to
         | me as far as Im concerned.
         | 
         | The staff doesnt give a shit. The only point at which theyd
         | care is if you're exploiting it or causing problems. If you
         | just walk in off the street, do your business, and leave then
         | no one has a problem.
        
       | Slava_Propanei wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | ftyers wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/FYK9P
        
       | cvccvroomvroom wrote:
       | The author probably hasn't been to London or continental Europe.
       | 
       | Good luck finding a trash receptacle in Victoria station. (Yes,
       | the historical reasons.) Meanwhile, the US has millions of
       | potential shrapnel trash cans everywhere. After some psycho
       | terrorists goes after them, then it would change. A hoop with a
       | clear bag is far safer for everyone.
        
         | throwawaywu wrote:
         | How about we put the few human-animals back in their cages, so
         | the rest of us can live in a civilization that doesn't need to
         | have clear bags full of trash on display.
        
           | hedora wrote:
           | California effectively outlawed mental health care for
           | paranoid schizophrenics back in the 1980's. (You can't even
           | get future-you committed in the event of a psychotic break)
        
             | okeuro49 wrote:
             | I don't think the author is referring literally to people
             | with mental illnesses.
             | 
             | They're referring to the IRA.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents
             | _...
        
       | lolinder wrote:
       | This is very much a regional thing.
       | 
       | In most of the US, my experience has been that every gas station
       | and every restaurant has a public restroom that's unlocked at all
       | times. They're sometimes nasty, but always available, and even
       | the ones that are nominally for customers only aren't regulated
       | at all.
       | 
       | There are some places I've been that keep the restroom locked,
       | but where I've been that's a sign that you're in a particularly
       | sketchy neighborhood, not a regular thing. The first time I had a
       | major problem finding a restroom at all was driving through Las
       | Vegas a few years ago. I've only become aware that there are
       | other places like that through articles like this on HN.
        
         | monocularvision wrote:
         | 100% agree.
         | 
         | In the Southwest, I would say 95% of the places I visit have
         | plenty of public restrooms if you count businesses that have
         | unlocked bathrooms. Fast food, coffee shops, grocery stores,
         | gas stations, restaurants... nearly every public business.
         | 
         | When my wife and I visited Scotland, we were flabbergasted at
         | how difficult it could be to find a restroom when we were
         | driving the countryside. Even when we would find signs of
         | civilization, it was hard to find open businesses with
         | restrooms.
        
           | tough wrote:
           | When in nature, earth becomes the restroom
        
         | wincy wrote:
         | Right, I guess maybe high crime areas have this problem? I
         | drove from Kansas to South Florida last year and there were
         | public restrooms literally everywhere we stopped.
        
           | marcusverus wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure that homeless folks are the main reason some
           | areas (generally urban) have few public restrooms. If someone
           | decides they'd rather hang out or sleep in your restroom than
           | on the street, the headache associated with offering a public
           | restroom rises dramatically.
        
             | coffeebeqn wrote:
             | Sleeping there is one thing. Shooting up and leaving the
             | needles there and painting the walls with feces is when you
             | really start to wonder
        
         | tlogan wrote:
         | It's all about homelessness and drugs. If an area has issues
         | with homelessness and drugs, public restrooms are very rare; if
         | they do exist, they are often out of order.
        
       | throwaway22032 wrote:
       | Is this a homeless thing or something?
       | 
       | When travelling in the US I've just done the same thing I do
       | anywhere. Enter a fast food place, coffee shop etc and ask to use
       | the loo. Job done.
       | 
       | I very rarely use truly public toilets in the UK either.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | It's a problem in some cities, but not in most of the country.
         | Stories like this are weird to me because it feels like the
         | author has never gone out into the majority of the US.
        
         | kadang wrote:
         | > Job done.
         | 
         | Well played.
        
       | WirelessGigabit wrote:
       | Public, no, but in general every Walmart / Starbucks / ...
       | (except Subway) have a restroom available.
       | 
       | Try finding a place in Belgium... if you find one, you have to
       | pay, even if you area already a paying customer (e.g. Kinepolis,
       | a large theater chain) or when you're in a park there's a
       | restroom with a friggin' card reader to charge you half a Euro to
       | take a piss. I found a tree close-by.
       | 
       | And grocery chains aren't even legally required to have a
       | restroom available to customers.
        
         | beardedwizard wrote:
         | Sitting in Amsterdam thinking the same thing. America is
         | practically covered in accessible restrooms in comparison.
        
         | archagon wrote:
         | Having just gone through Belgium and the Netherlands, it's a
         | huge relief to know that public restrooms are definitely around
         | if you're willing to part with some change.
        
           | nness wrote:
           | Probably most of EU, too. And the extra coins it takes means
           | it is at least moderately clean. But just in case, always
           | good to carry a few Euro coins around for the attendants.
           | 
           | The card readers are all over the UK's largest parks, too.
           | 
           | (A nasty issue I encountered in Iceland was that my debit
           | card did not support Icelandic vendors, and as a result,
           | could not be used to purchase anything which the strip
           | reader. I jumped many turnstiles, sorry Iceland...)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sneed_chucker wrote:
       | The restroom situation in the US is better than in any other
       | country I've visited.
        
         | spiderice wrote:
         | Agreed. I've never once not been able to easily find a restroom
         | in the US. Europe is much worse, where you often have to buy
         | toilet paper or something silly to keep people from using the
         | restroom.
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | What? I've never seen that in "Europe" in any country I've
           | visited.
           | 
           | Which country are you talking about where you have to buy
           | toilet paper?
           | 
           | In the UK I can think of a couple pay toilets at some of the
           | big London train stations but other than that I can't
           | remember seeing one.
           | 
           | Free toilets are everywhere.
        
       | explaininjs wrote:
       | They're easy enough to find if you actually look, the problem is
       | they're always locked. It's as if the city thinks people only
       | poop from 9am to 8pm.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | A local park has the bathrooms in the rec center that has
         | separate hours from the rest of the park. So by 5pm when
         | everyone gets off work to play pickup basketball on the courts
         | the only place to piss is this discrete bush that absolutely
         | reeks as a result.
        
       | rmilejczz wrote:
       | This is really only a problem in densely urban areas and even
       | then not across all of them. To say public restrooms are hard to
       | find in America is I think a mischaracterization. It would be
       | more fair to say public restrooms are hard to find in American
       | cities, but then Id wager all urban areas around the globe have
       | struggled with this problem in one way or another.
       | 
       | Anecdotally, in my hometown in Florida I've never had an issue
       | finding a bathroom, not even in larger cities like Orlando and
       | Tampa. But my experience finding bathrooms in Seattle, Washington
       | was quite horrendous.
        
       | ugh123 wrote:
       | 10 year old boy arrested in Mississippi for urinating in public
       | after he couldn't find a public restroom in August
       | 
       | https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/08/us/mississippi-boy-arrested-u...
        
       | linusg789 wrote:
       | https://ghostarchive.org/archive/H7UGS
        
       | Aldipower wrote:
       | How about wearing a diaper? Problem solved. Just kidding. What's
       | the problem with providing public urinals? I don't get it. Here
       | is an simple example from Hamburg.
       | https://www.heringinternational.com/fileadmin/images/content...
       | You'll find something similar everywhere in Europe. I had been in
       | SF once. This was the smelliest city expierence I ever had yet.
        
         | iteria wrote:
         | Women and children never need to pee apparently. And apparently
         | pooping is just out and out forbidden to all. Urinals are not
         | anywhere near a replacement for public restrooms and really
         | only fill the gap of trying to discourage public urination
         | probably around bars.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | It wasn't long ago that the enlightened people writing news
       | stories were informing us that public toilets encouraged
       | homelessness and crime. Business that allowed the public to use
       | their toilets were "gently encouraged" not to do so anymore.
       | 
       | Perhaps we could go back and see who wanted to make public
       | toilets unavailable, and make sure they're not still influencing
       | public policy?
        
         | switch007 wrote:
         | In the UK we mostly get that excuse from the
         | councils/government because they want to cut costs, and I think
         | people just parrot that excuse.
         | 
         | Nobody seems to take 2 seconds to even ask how much vandalism
         | existed only because there were no attendants (because they
         | were fired) and therefore there was no surveillance.
         | 
         | All the good public toilets I've seen have constant cleaning
         | during the day with a strong staff presence. Funny that!
        
         | jefftk wrote:
         | _> It wasn 't long ago that the enlightened people writing news
         | stories were informing us that public toilets encouraged
         | homelessness and crime._
         | 
         | Link?
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | > encouraged homelessness
         | 
         | As if the only thing stopping me from trying homelessness as a
         | lifestyle is the lack of public restrooms. "No restrooms? Damn!
         | Guess I'll have to sleep at home then."
        
       | wfhBrian wrote:
       | Just got back from Europe and this was my biggest complaint about
       | the places we visited.
       | 
       | Living in Florida, I never have a problem finding restrooms. Not
       | sure what kind of restroom oasis the author is from, but, at
       | least here in Florida, restrooms are _not_ hard to find.
        
       | shamsartem wrote:
       | There is a Seinfeld joke here somewhere
        
       | wigiv wrote:
       | My company designed and built the first few prototypes for a
       | startup, Throne Labs, who deploy prefab, off-grid,
       | (semi-)publicly-accessible (you have to have their app)
       | bathrooms.
       | 
       | Seems like they solved some core problems: finding suitable sites
       | and partners, using semi-permanent modules that don't require
       | [quite as] complicated/slow/expensive permitting and utility tie-
       | ins, and some clever ways to get them re-stocked and cleaned
       | regularly using gig labor (I always understood this to be the
       | biggest challenge for offering public bathroom - labor cost of
       | cleaning and resupply.)
       | 
       | They moved on to a higher-volume producer so I've been out of
       | touch on their progress, but I thought it was a interesting
       | solution in the face of what I learned to be outrageous
       | expenditure - $300k, $500k(!) - on municipal bathrooms that
       | quickly go defunct or get destroyed, and a lack of public
       | restroom access during the pandemic.
       | 
       | During the project I learned a lot about how rideshare and
       | package delivery companies just assume stops with restrooms are
       | available on the routes (I'd love to hear what the actual company
       | training/guidance says! It's easy to find stories about Amazon
       | drivers peeing in bottles etc...)
       | 
       | I also gained a lot of empathy for people who have more frequent
       | and urgent bathroom needs than my own - having trust in
       | availability of facilities can make a world of difference!
        
       | goosethe wrote:
       | Lol another plug. People with paruresis have trouble finding
       | places to pee in private. Enter paruapp.com. it's mostly a
       | personal project
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | This isn't rocket science. Just rent a line of portapotties. The
       | portapottie company will maintain them. Increase or decrease the
       | number as required. Move them around.
       | 
       | An order of magnitude cheaper than any other option.
        
       | morkalork wrote:
       | Apparently in 70s there was also a bit of a moral panic over
       | "illicit sexual encounters" happening in public washrooms as well
       | that might have had something to do with them being closed.
        
         | NelsonMinar wrote:
         | In the 50s, too, and before. But it's just one of many excuses.
         | Here in the Bay Area our public transit system closed all
         | restrooms "temporarily for security reasons" after 9/11. That
         | was 22 years ago. They're finally reopening a few. One every
         | year.
        
       | storf45 wrote:
       | Maybe one reason? https://abc7news.com/sf-expensive-bathroom-noe-
       | valley-millio...
        
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