[HN Gopher] Molly Holzschlag has died
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Molly Holzschlag has died
        
       Author : tarellel
       Score  : 304 points
       Date   : 2023-09-06 04:29 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tucsonsentinel.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tucsonsentinel.com)
        
       | jethronethro wrote:
       | Damn! So sad to hear this. She was a force of nature.
        
       | meigwilym wrote:
       | One of the giants of the early Web 2.0 and standards movement.
       | Like many others I learnt a lot from her writings on the
       | practicalities and ideas of modern, accessible websites.
       | 
       | May she rest in peace.
        
       | thraxil wrote:
       | I worked with Molly for years at the Web Standards Project. We
       | all owe her more than most people realize when it comes to being
       | able to use and build on the modern web. There aren't many single
       | individuals out there who had a larger impact than her. She was
       | also just a lovely and inspiring human and those of us who were
       | fortunate enough to spend time with her are better for it.
       | 
       | As sad as this is, it also isn't much of a surprise if you've
       | been paying any attention. She's been very sick for a long time
       | and publicly struggling with enormous medical expenses (there
       | have been various crowdfunding efforts over the years and she had
       | to sell her `molly.com` domain to pay for treatment).
        
         | kevmo wrote:
         | F'ing incredible that the USA doesn't have universal healthcare
         | yet. We lose so much efficiency, productivity, and creativity
         | because of it. One of the primary reasons our average living
         | standards keep going down.
        
           | pohl wrote:
           | Got to fight tooth and nail to protect tax cuts for
           | bajillionaires, yo. Who knows, any one of us might be one
           | someday.
        
             | kevmo wrote:
             | I always scoff at all of the endless "How will we pay for
             | it???" crap. We'll pay for it by cutting out massive
             | inefficiencies like the insurance system (which is
             | basically a giant RICO scam), which would introduce an
             | incredible burst of innovation and efficiency, as Americans
             | got unshackled from jobs they were only in for insurance
             | benefits & were able to take more creative risks and move
             | into jobs more suited for them. Also, the way we do
             | healthcare straight up costs twice as much while also
             | producing less care.
        
               | dpkirchner wrote:
               | Politicians claim they're in favor of small business and
               | then refuse to enact the simplest changes (as in,
               | reducing the age of eligibility for Medicare) that would
               | reduce business overhead.
        
               | keithnz wrote:
               | yeah, I find it odd, just add up the revenue of the
               | health insurance industry, that's how much you americans
               | are paying, then see how much profit and overheads they
               | have, that's how much health care money is directly not
               | going to actual health outcomes, and then work out if you
               | can do a better system. Should be a case that overall,
               | everyone pays less and you get better outcomes. But, I
               | can't see it ever happening for you guys. Americans are
               | weird, they seem ok when americans let americans die and
               | suffer, but if anyone else trys it, they spend whatever
               | they have to show the world not to mess with America.
        
               | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
               | We were just one Senate vote away (Joe Lieberman) from
               | getting a public option during the Obama administration.
               | The law essentially needed a 60% supermajority to pass
               | and it had 59% support of our legislature. Quite tragic -
               | the next generation may get to try again.
        
               | kevmo wrote:
               | You can try right now.
        
               | rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
               | It will not stand a chance without a filibuster-proof
               | majority. Time is better spent pursuing policy changes
               | that actually stand a realistic chance of passing.
        
               | dbg31415 wrote:
               | Yup. The guy from Connecticut had to side with the
               | insurance lobby. He had been on the ticket with Gore in
               | 2000, so this was a total betrayal by a democrat. He
               | didn't even run for reelection after that vote, so he
               | just burned everyone for no reason other than he wanted
               | to keep the system we have today that hurts people and
               | helps insurance companies. This guy is trash.
        
               | dbg31415 wrote:
               | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/16/joe-
               | lieberman-...
        
               | hnbad wrote:
               | Literally. What is called "profit" in a private industry
               | is what would be called "waste" in a public service. It's
               | literally money that runs through the system and
               | accumulates rather than being used. Ironically when
               | politicians want to run a public service more "like a
               | business", they will try to squeeze the budget to cut
               | costs to in turn justify further cuts until the service
               | fails to do what it was originally meant to do and has to
               | be replaced by a for-profit industry that generates an
               | even larger overhead at even more cost to society once
               | you factor in the fees, subsidies and other factors.
        
             | samstave wrote:
             | OOH LOOK a shiny new proxy war we can grift off - lets make
             | sure senators with no business there get to go schmooze
             | with the top brass as we siphon through the MIC!
             | 
             | -
             | 
             | The US is a plastic Imperialist joke of "democracy" -- its
             | Oligarchs all the way down. Always has been.
        
           | adamredwoods wrote:
           | An easier first step would be to force all healthcare and
           | hospitals to be non-profit, and never enter the stock market.
           | Shareholders want profit, and an easy way to profit on
           | healthcare is to deny benefits.
        
           | stcroixx wrote:
           | Lots of people don't want universal health care for reasons
           | that are not incredible. I've had employer provided insurance
           | I'm happy with ever since I left my student insurance plan
           | over 25 years ago and have few complaints about it. I'd
           | prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system that
           | might provide worse care than what I've always had. Kaiser in
           | CA for example is the worst insurance I've had - would not
           | want to return to anything like that where there is a single
           | network of providers. That was my mistake though - I didn't
           | have to choose Kaiser, I had other options.
        
             | gcheong wrote:
             | I never quite understood this fear that you're going to
             | lose some benefit of the insurance you have now. It's not
             | like all the hospitals and doctors suddenly go away so if
             | you have a preferred doctor or facility you'll most likely
             | be able to keep going to them and you'll have more choices
             | as every place will be "in-network". Contrary to your
             | experience, I've had good results with Kaiser and one thing
             | I like about it is not having to call around to various
             | "in-network" providers to find out if they are taking new
             | patients and if they can see me.
        
             | OfSanguineFire wrote:
             | Universal health care doesn't preclude the existence of
             | private care. A number of countries have universal public
             | health care, but if you want to pay extra, there is also
             | private insurance and a private network of physicians and
             | hospitals.
        
               | stcroixx wrote:
               | So I would have to spend more for the same care I have
               | now? No thanks.
        
               | OfSanguineFire wrote:
               | Not necessarily. For some countries mandatory public
               | health contributions plus good private insurance, can
               | still work out to cheaper than good private insurance
               | alone in the US. This is because when private insurance
               | has to compete with a universal public option, prices go
               | down.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | A number of countries have universal healthcare largely
               | acheived through private providers and insurers, e.g.,
               | through means-tested subsidies and coverage mandates.
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | In addition to that: Universal health care does not
               | mandate a single provider. Where I live there are many
               | health insurance companies to choose from, some are
               | statuary others are private. All it means is that the
               | statuary ones cannot deny you as long as you fulfill
               | certain requirements ("Universal" health care is never
               | _really_ universal).
        
             | neongodzilla wrote:
             | So millions of Americans don't have access to healthcare
             | and die early because they can't afford it, but you don't
             | want things to change because _you 're_ comfortable? Got
             | it.
        
               | stcroixx wrote:
               | I advocate for myself, others should do the same.
               | Medicaid is there for retirees and disabled folks and the
               | rest of us should be working. I don't know what these
               | millions you mention are doing where they can't afford
               | healthcare, but there are plenty of job and education
               | opportunities out there that will provide insurance if
               | you're willing to study and work, which I think is fair.
        
               | s5300 wrote:
               | [dead]
        
               | hotpotamus wrote:
               | What if someone trying to pay for their kid's chemo hit
               | you over the head with a hammer to take your wallet and
               | left you unable to continue your current line of work?
        
             | jzb wrote:
             | "I'd prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system
             | that might provide worse care than what I've always had."
             | 
             | Your insurance is employer provided? You risk that _every
             | day_ then. Lots of people in the past few years have woken
             | up to find out that their job - and with it their employer
             | provided insurance - has gone bye-bye.
             | 
             | Yeah, we have COBRA to continue it at exorbitant rates for
             | some period of time. But health care should not be tied to
             | employment.
             | 
             | I'd be OK with a universal health care system where
             | employers can offer _better_ but _everybody_ has a baseline
             | health care where nobody - absolutely nobody - has to
             | struggle to get basic healthcare. (And that includes dental
             | and vision, which is absolutely boggling that we 've
             | decided "oh, those body parts are not included.")
        
               | stcroixx wrote:
               | It's a minuscule risk I'm comfortable with and manage
               | actively. I got into this line of work because there's
               | high demand. I haven't been without a job and make all of
               | my career related decisions to optimize continued
               | employment. I got bored of software 20 years ago and
               | really am only in it for the insurance and pay. I've been
               | laid off and gotten another job the same day.
        
             | asciimov wrote:
             | Ah the age old "F- you, I've got mine".
             | 
             | Twice in my career had the insurance plan swept out from
             | under me. Both times my decent, but not great PPO was
             | replaced with HSA only options. Forcing me to change jobs.
             | 
             | Personality, I'd rather not have my insurance options tied
             | to the whims of a CFO and whatever kickbacks they're
             | getting.
        
         | geerlingguy wrote:
         | "Dr. Glaucomflecken" [1] is doing a satirical daily video on
         | the US a healthcare system this month, and the short videos cut
         | right to the heart of the insane practices that reduce patient
         | welfare, from insurance policies to hospital administrators.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.youtube.com/@DGlaucomflecken
        
         | gcanyon wrote:
         | > She's been very sick for a long time and publicly struggling
         | with enormous medical expenses (there have been various
         | crowdfunding efforts over the years and she had to sell her
         | `molly.com` domain to pay for treatment).
         | 
         | My wife and I were both born in the U.S. and have lived here
         | most of our lives; we love this place. The above is why we have
         | zero intention to retire here.
        
           | weinzierl wrote:
           | I understand you, but health care is expensive everywhere.
           | The difference between the US and many other countries is in
           | the distribution of this cost.
           | 
           | So, for example, if a young person from the US or elsewhere
           | comes to Germany to study they will get health care basically
           | for free.
           | 
           | I think (and I might be wrong) if you move to Germany as
           | retiree the public health care system would not be open to
           | you. You could choose a private insurance but, very much like
           | in the US, the premiums depend on age and existing
           | preconditions. I cannot tell if this would be cheaper than in
           | the US, but I doubt that it could be much cheaper. Also, I
           | think it would be similar in most other EU countries.
           | 
           | Of course you could move to a country with significantly
           | lower living standards to save on medical cost, but then you
           | would increase your likelihood of medical issues and not
           | really gain any real advantage.
        
             | gcanyon wrote:
             | > health care is expensive everywhere
             | 
             | That's simply not true: per capita spending on healthcare
             | (regardless of how that spending happens) is dramatically
             | higher in the U.S. than anywhere else on the planet. For
             | example, Germany spends 60% Per Capita compared to the U.S.
             | https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0006_health-care-oecd
             | Spain spends just over 30% compared to the U.S.
             | 
             | And I've paid for/received healthcare in Portugal,
             | Thailand, Nepal, and England. It's more cost effective (I
             | started to say cheaper and better, but "better" is a loaded
             | word) pretty much everywhere else.
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | Out of interest: Did you receive public healthcare or did
               | you take out a private insurance in those countries you
               | mentioned? I'm especially curious if you were able to
               | receive NHS health care as (I assume) a foreigner?
               | 
               | When you say cheaper do you mean (private) health
               | insurance or directly paying for medical services, or
               | both?
        
               | gcanyon wrote:
               | Portugal: paid out of pocket, no insurance. A trip to the
               | ER to refill a prescription (it's what our landlord told
               | us to do) took about twenty minutes and cost under $30.
               | Filling that prescription cost less than the copay in the
               | U.S.
               | 
               | Thailand: paid out of pocket, no insurance. A trip to the
               | ER for digestive issues took under an hour and the visit
               | plus antibiotics cost under $200. This was at Bumrungrad,
               | one of the best hospitals in Thailand.
               | 
               | I'll double-check, but I'm pretty confident my wife's
               | care in the UK was under the NHS. Nepal was also her, I
               | think it was out of pocket, but I'll check.
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | Thanks, that's insightful. I take your point from above.
        
             | nikolay wrote:
             | That's absolutely false. For example, I buy a brand
             | medication in Europe without insurance for price many times
             | lower than the generic drug in the State's copay! There
             | numerous examples, but most recent example is my wife's
             | Levothyroxine. I buy a German-made medication for $1 in
             | Bulgaria. In the States, a generic version made by noname
             | Indian company has a $10 copay. Same with the Metformin I
             | buy. The original brand medication (Glucophage) I get at
             | around $2/month supply. And this is just meds.
             | 
             | The most advanced MRI in Bulgaria costs without insurance
             | cost a fraction of the copay in the States.
             | 
             | Same for labs. I recently got a comprehensive labs
             | including advanced lipid profile (with lipoprotein(A) and
             | ApoB, cholesterol fractions, etc.) for less than $20 out of
             | pocket with no insurance. Same with my wife's thyroid test
             | - full picture, not just TSH for less than $15. All self-
             | ordered by the way! No need for intermediary companies to
             | authorize it - you just go directly to a lab, which keeps
             | the costs low as there's fierce competition for your
             | business unlike in America where Labcorp and Quest keep the
             | prices ultrahigh!
             | 
             | An quantified American (by Abbott) COVID-19 IgM + IgG
             | antibody test in Bulgaria was less than $20 - here a yes/no
             | test starts at $75.
             | 
             | Again, I'm talking about paying pure cost plus hefty
             | private companies' margins here - no subsidy, no insurance,
             | all up-to-date technology and materials.
             | 
             | The margins in America are unimaginable for any humane
             | organization anywhere in the world. Healthcare should never
             | be a business!
        
               | ploxiln wrote:
               | > No need for intermediary companies to authorize it -
               | you just go directly to a lab, which keeps the costs low
               | as there's fierce competition for your business unlike in
               | America
               | 
               | > Healthcare should never be a business!
               | 
               | ... seems to me like Healthcare should actually be a
               | normal business. Instead of whatever it is in the US -
               | which as you explain, really makes no sense.
        
               | nikolay wrote:
               | Yeah, because it's already a business but non-competitive
               | like in the States. Pharmacies can still sell me
               | medications without an Rx - it's not allowed, but they
               | still do it, because why do I need to schedule a doctor's
               | visit get a medication thats for life (like my wife's
               | Levothyroxine).
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | That's from your privileged position but for the majority
               | of Bulgarians an MRI is equally expensive than an MRI for
               | the average American - simply unaffordable.
               | 
               | For most people health care _is_ expensive no matter
               | where they are.
        
               | nikolay wrote:
               | I am talking about absolute costs not affordability. MRI
               | costs might be mostly salaries, but it's not the same for
               | drugs, labs, etc. Given the much bigger purchasing power
               | in the US, prices should be lower, not higher. Why the
               | economics of consumer electronics don't apply to health
               | care? TVs and laptops are much more expensive in
               | Bulgaria, but drugs are way, way cheaper and not
               | subsidized - and these are commodities. Levothyroxine is
               | a commodity available around the globe. Why it's so
               | expensive in the States?! Why are American pharmacies
               | buying generics from India, which so often have recalls
               | due to contamination, and don't buy European drugs (such
               | as from BERLIN-CHEMIE [0])? Because they want much bigger
               | margins - I have no other explanation.
               | 
               | [0]: https://www.berlin-chemie.de/en-us/about-us/our-
               | history
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | I take your point and learned something, thank you.
        
               | maxerickson wrote:
               | The cash price will often be lower than the copay (which
               | isn't a good thing, but it signals that the issue is
               | benefit design rather than cost of provision).
               | 
               | For example, Walmart sells a month supply of
               | levothyroxine for $4 if you don't get your PBM involved.
        
               | nikolay wrote:
               | Yeah, but Walmart generics are made in India by companies
               | known for recalls due to carcinogen contamination. Not
               | that recalls in Europe don't happen, but I'd rather
               | purchase from a pharmaceutical company in business from
               | the 19th century. If US regulators believe that India has
               | more stringent pharmaceutical standards than Germany,
               | then something is fishy! And there's so much corruption
               | in generics [0]!
               | 
               | [0]:
               | https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/04/big-
               | pharm...
        
             | throwawayapples wrote:
             | Extortionist medical insurers coupled with regulatory
             | capture.
        
             | microtherion wrote:
             | I'm not German myself, but I'm pretty sure the public
             | health care system is open to all legal residents, no
             | matter what age they move there. But like most countries,
             | there are significant hurdles to immigration, and they
             | would be even higher for somebody in retirement age.
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | I am indeed German and to the best of my knowledge our
               | health care system is not open to all legal residents. I
               | worded it carefully above, because it is complicated and
               | there might be loopholes, but in general a person older
               | than 55 that has never been in the German health system
               | will not get in.
        
               | mongol wrote:
               | What if they are EU citizens?
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | Doesn't matter. Even if you are a German citizen and by
               | 55 you've never been in the health system you're out of
               | luck.
        
               | lfittl wrote:
               | In the above described scenario (US-based retiree moving
               | to Germany), its likely the social security totalization
               | treaty applies, giving them access to the health system: 
               | https://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/ger
               | man...
        
               | microtherion wrote:
               | So correct me if I'm wrong, but:
               | 
               | * Germany has an Obamacare-like system: Insurance is
               | private, but mandatory.
               | 
               | * You can choose and change your insurance provider
               | freely, and they cannot reject you
               | 
               | So if that is true, health insurance companies have the
               | risk of older residents joining, whether or not the
               | previously resided in Germany, and it's not like they
               | benefited from their contributions before.
               | 
               | So how exactly would this exclusion work? Is insurance
               | not mandatory for immigrants after a certain age? Do
               | insurance companies have a right to reject them?
               | 
               | I was not able to find a direct discussion of the
               | question, but this page discussing the health problems of
               | older immigrants (including "access to the health care
               | system") does not mention the possibility that they would
               | be excluded from the health care system altogether:
               | https://heimatkunde.boell.de/de/2013/11/18/altere-
               | migrantinn...
        
               | Agingcoder wrote:
               | I think it's public, not private.
        
               | microtherion wrote:
               | Ah, I was mistaken. I was correct in that insurance is
               | mandatory, but most people get the insurance from a
               | state-run insurance company:
               | 
               | https://www.informedhealth.org/the-german-health-care-
               | system...
               | 
               | https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2018-2019/
               | eur...
               | 
               | [Corrected to admit my error]
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | Norway?
           | 
           | Where retire?
        
             | bibanez wrote:
             | You can find many places with good QOL that are cheaper,
             | like Spain. That said, Norway's pension fund is very
             | attractive...
        
           | pnutjam wrote:
           | She died at 60, so no eligibility for Medicare or Social
           | Security. That's a nightmare scenario in the good old US of
           | A. RIP
        
       | terminous wrote:
       | I think in this case, it would be OK to add [mollydotcom] to the
       | title. That's how I knew her, not by her last name.
        
       | kubafu wrote:
       | Thank you Molly for all you did, a lot of us will keep building
       | on that.
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | If you were actively building for the Web in late 1990s and early
       | 2000s, you would have definitely stumbled on Molly's work in one
       | way or the other.
       | 
       | The web will miss Molly E. Holzschlag.
       | 
       | Now, I could not find her on LinkedIn; she must have deleted her
       | profile. She was reaching out to people when her illness
       | progressed (I think it was LinkedIn). I remember feeling sad
       | watching her videos, talking about how the treatment was tiring
       | her.
       | 
       | It was always an excitement in the early days of the web when you
       | are in a discussion forum and Molly was around too, answering to
       | the list question. Looking up old emails, she owned
       | https://www.molly.com but this seems to be something else now.
        
         | henvic wrote:
         | It's really sad. It looks like financial hardship hit hard and
         | she decided to sell it to afford medication.
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20151211202252/http://www.molly....
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20151204202343/http://www.molly....
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20150711215305/http://www.molly....
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20160202163909/http://www.molly....
        
       | andirk wrote:
       | Anyone who was an advocate of web Accessibility from the early
       | days is someone who knew that we are all God's (or whoever's)
       | children. Rest in peace, Molly.
        
       | fergie wrote:
       | I met her a few times at Opera in Oslo, and she was truly
       | somebody who embodied the spirit of the utopian promise of the
       | web. A smart and charming woman.
       | 
       | Its weird- she suddenly popped into my head the other day having
       | not thought about her for years, and I was wondering how she was
       | doing.
        
       | oldmillalmond wrote:
       | Could we get a black bar?
        
         | simulo wrote:
         | that would be fitting, I thought the same.
        
           | isodev wrote:
           | This is so heartbreaking. How does one request the black bar?
           | Just send them an email from the contact link?
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Yes. You email hn at ycombinator dot com to request.
             | Include thread link.
        
             | simulo wrote:
             | > Just send them an email from the contact link?
             | 
             | I guess - this is what I did.
        
               | qohen wrote:
               | I sent an email last night. I don't know if quantity is
               | important here, but it can't hurt to have multiple people
               | dropping a line.
        
         | jeremiahlee wrote:
         | Absolutely worthy!
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | Oh that sucks. She's one of the few authors whose books about the
       | web actually helped me build stuff. 60 only, way too young.
        
       | wink wrote:
       | Sad to hear this. As I wandered away from frontend work more and
       | more over the years that's a name I haven't heard in a while, but
       | in the late 90s/early 00s you definitely stumbled over her work
       | here and there if you were around in those circles. When frontend
       | development encompassed mostly HTML and CS (no JS).
        
       | jdelsman wrote:
       | Molly was incredibly kind to me. I met her a few times at
       | conferences, and she always seemed to be bright, quirky and
       | impossibly energetic. I am sorry to see this happen to such a
       | lovely person. I hope she rests in power!
        
       | JimDabell wrote:
       | This is sad. She was omnipresent in the web development
       | community, especially during pivotal moments for
       | interoperability. Many of the things we take for granted these
       | days we owe to her, the Web Standards Project, and people like
       | her.
        
       | jeremiahlee wrote:
       | I remember the first time I met her at a Web dev conference. She
       | chatted with me for a half hour, telling stories of browser
       | rivalries and HTML5's renegade group that saved us all from
       | XHTML. We ran into each other several times over the years. She
       | always was kind, encouraging, and genuinely interested in what I
       | had to say. She gave us all so much. Her suffering over the last
       | decade was a cruel fate.
        
       | jzb wrote:
       | I used to follow Molly's blog and writing and really enjoyed her
       | voice and learned a lot from her. I'm embarrassed to say that
       | it's been a long time since I thought about her, and it's really
       | heartbreaking she passed away so young and after so much
       | struggle.
       | 
       | Our systems suck. Nobody should have to fight so hard to get the
       | treatment they need. It's doubly sad when it's someone who has
       | made significant contributions to the world and then is
       | essentially forgotten. But that shouldn't happen to anybody.
        
       | souvic wrote:
       | Her Twitter bio read, "It is the true teacher who leaves the
       | class knowing they have learned the most."
       | 
       | Such a mesmerising human being!
        
       | simulo wrote:
       | That is sad. She was with the web from its early days (her first
       | book on the subject is from 1996), taught a lot of people, and
       | bridged several communities: design, web standards, and
       | accessability
        
       | hellweaver666 wrote:
       | This is super sad. I learnt HTML and CSS from following tutorials
       | by Molly, even met her a couple of times at conferences. I really
       | can't understate how much this woman shaped the web as we know it
       | today. Rest well Molly!
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Holzschlag
       | 
       | https://webwithmolly.com/
        
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