[HN Gopher] Molly Holzschlag has died
___________________________________________________________________
Molly Holzschlag has died
Author : tarellel
Score : 304 points
Date : 2023-09-06 04:29 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.tucsonsentinel.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.tucsonsentinel.com)
| jethronethro wrote:
| Damn! So sad to hear this. She was a force of nature.
| meigwilym wrote:
| One of the giants of the early Web 2.0 and standards movement.
| Like many others I learnt a lot from her writings on the
| practicalities and ideas of modern, accessible websites.
|
| May she rest in peace.
| thraxil wrote:
| I worked with Molly for years at the Web Standards Project. We
| all owe her more than most people realize when it comes to being
| able to use and build on the modern web. There aren't many single
| individuals out there who had a larger impact than her. She was
| also just a lovely and inspiring human and those of us who were
| fortunate enough to spend time with her are better for it.
|
| As sad as this is, it also isn't much of a surprise if you've
| been paying any attention. She's been very sick for a long time
| and publicly struggling with enormous medical expenses (there
| have been various crowdfunding efforts over the years and she had
| to sell her `molly.com` domain to pay for treatment).
| kevmo wrote:
| F'ing incredible that the USA doesn't have universal healthcare
| yet. We lose so much efficiency, productivity, and creativity
| because of it. One of the primary reasons our average living
| standards keep going down.
| pohl wrote:
| Got to fight tooth and nail to protect tax cuts for
| bajillionaires, yo. Who knows, any one of us might be one
| someday.
| kevmo wrote:
| I always scoff at all of the endless "How will we pay for
| it???" crap. We'll pay for it by cutting out massive
| inefficiencies like the insurance system (which is
| basically a giant RICO scam), which would introduce an
| incredible burst of innovation and efficiency, as Americans
| got unshackled from jobs they were only in for insurance
| benefits & were able to take more creative risks and move
| into jobs more suited for them. Also, the way we do
| healthcare straight up costs twice as much while also
| producing less care.
| dpkirchner wrote:
| Politicians claim they're in favor of small business and
| then refuse to enact the simplest changes (as in,
| reducing the age of eligibility for Medicare) that would
| reduce business overhead.
| keithnz wrote:
| yeah, I find it odd, just add up the revenue of the
| health insurance industry, that's how much you americans
| are paying, then see how much profit and overheads they
| have, that's how much health care money is directly not
| going to actual health outcomes, and then work out if you
| can do a better system. Should be a case that overall,
| everyone pays less and you get better outcomes. But, I
| can't see it ever happening for you guys. Americans are
| weird, they seem ok when americans let americans die and
| suffer, but if anyone else trys it, they spend whatever
| they have to show the world not to mess with America.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| We were just one Senate vote away (Joe Lieberman) from
| getting a public option during the Obama administration.
| The law essentially needed a 60% supermajority to pass
| and it had 59% support of our legislature. Quite tragic -
| the next generation may get to try again.
| kevmo wrote:
| You can try right now.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| It will not stand a chance without a filibuster-proof
| majority. Time is better spent pursuing policy changes
| that actually stand a realistic chance of passing.
| dbg31415 wrote:
| Yup. The guy from Connecticut had to side with the
| insurance lobby. He had been on the ticket with Gore in
| 2000, so this was a total betrayal by a democrat. He
| didn't even run for reelection after that vote, so he
| just burned everyone for no reason other than he wanted
| to keep the system we have today that hurts people and
| helps insurance companies. This guy is trash.
| dbg31415 wrote:
| https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/dec/16/joe-
| lieberman-...
| hnbad wrote:
| Literally. What is called "profit" in a private industry
| is what would be called "waste" in a public service. It's
| literally money that runs through the system and
| accumulates rather than being used. Ironically when
| politicians want to run a public service more "like a
| business", they will try to squeeze the budget to cut
| costs to in turn justify further cuts until the service
| fails to do what it was originally meant to do and has to
| be replaced by a for-profit industry that generates an
| even larger overhead at even more cost to society once
| you factor in the fees, subsidies and other factors.
| samstave wrote:
| OOH LOOK a shiny new proxy war we can grift off - lets make
| sure senators with no business there get to go schmooze
| with the top brass as we siphon through the MIC!
|
| -
|
| The US is a plastic Imperialist joke of "democracy" -- its
| Oligarchs all the way down. Always has been.
| adamredwoods wrote:
| An easier first step would be to force all healthcare and
| hospitals to be non-profit, and never enter the stock market.
| Shareholders want profit, and an easy way to profit on
| healthcare is to deny benefits.
| stcroixx wrote:
| Lots of people don't want universal health care for reasons
| that are not incredible. I've had employer provided insurance
| I'm happy with ever since I left my student insurance plan
| over 25 years ago and have few complaints about it. I'd
| prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system that
| might provide worse care than what I've always had. Kaiser in
| CA for example is the worst insurance I've had - would not
| want to return to anything like that where there is a single
| network of providers. That was my mistake though - I didn't
| have to choose Kaiser, I had other options.
| gcheong wrote:
| I never quite understood this fear that you're going to
| lose some benefit of the insurance you have now. It's not
| like all the hospitals and doctors suddenly go away so if
| you have a preferred doctor or facility you'll most likely
| be able to keep going to them and you'll have more choices
| as every place will be "in-network". Contrary to your
| experience, I've had good results with Kaiser and one thing
| I like about it is not having to call around to various
| "in-network" providers to find out if they are taking new
| patients and if they can see me.
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| Universal health care doesn't preclude the existence of
| private care. A number of countries have universal public
| health care, but if you want to pay extra, there is also
| private insurance and a private network of physicians and
| hospitals.
| stcroixx wrote:
| So I would have to spend more for the same care I have
| now? No thanks.
| OfSanguineFire wrote:
| Not necessarily. For some countries mandatory public
| health contributions plus good private insurance, can
| still work out to cheaper than good private insurance
| alone in the US. This is because when private insurance
| has to compete with a universal public option, prices go
| down.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| A number of countries have universal healthcare largely
| acheived through private providers and insurers, e.g.,
| through means-tested subsidies and coverage mandates.
| weinzierl wrote:
| In addition to that: Universal health care does not
| mandate a single provider. Where I live there are many
| health insurance companies to choose from, some are
| statuary others are private. All it means is that the
| statuary ones cannot deny you as long as you fulfill
| certain requirements ("Universal" health care is never
| _really_ universal).
| neongodzilla wrote:
| So millions of Americans don't have access to healthcare
| and die early because they can't afford it, but you don't
| want things to change because _you 're_ comfortable? Got
| it.
| stcroixx wrote:
| I advocate for myself, others should do the same.
| Medicaid is there for retirees and disabled folks and the
| rest of us should be working. I don't know what these
| millions you mention are doing where they can't afford
| healthcare, but there are plenty of job and education
| opportunities out there that will provide insurance if
| you're willing to study and work, which I think is fair.
| s5300 wrote:
| [dead]
| hotpotamus wrote:
| What if someone trying to pay for their kid's chemo hit
| you over the head with a hammer to take your wallet and
| left you unable to continue your current line of work?
| jzb wrote:
| "I'd prefer not to risk transitioning to a universal system
| that might provide worse care than what I've always had."
|
| Your insurance is employer provided? You risk that _every
| day_ then. Lots of people in the past few years have woken
| up to find out that their job - and with it their employer
| provided insurance - has gone bye-bye.
|
| Yeah, we have COBRA to continue it at exorbitant rates for
| some period of time. But health care should not be tied to
| employment.
|
| I'd be OK with a universal health care system where
| employers can offer _better_ but _everybody_ has a baseline
| health care where nobody - absolutely nobody - has to
| struggle to get basic healthcare. (And that includes dental
| and vision, which is absolutely boggling that we 've
| decided "oh, those body parts are not included.")
| stcroixx wrote:
| It's a minuscule risk I'm comfortable with and manage
| actively. I got into this line of work because there's
| high demand. I haven't been without a job and make all of
| my career related decisions to optimize continued
| employment. I got bored of software 20 years ago and
| really am only in it for the insurance and pay. I've been
| laid off and gotten another job the same day.
| asciimov wrote:
| Ah the age old "F- you, I've got mine".
|
| Twice in my career had the insurance plan swept out from
| under me. Both times my decent, but not great PPO was
| replaced with HSA only options. Forcing me to change jobs.
|
| Personality, I'd rather not have my insurance options tied
| to the whims of a CFO and whatever kickbacks they're
| getting.
| geerlingguy wrote:
| "Dr. Glaucomflecken" [1] is doing a satirical daily video on
| the US a healthcare system this month, and the short videos cut
| right to the heart of the insane practices that reduce patient
| welfare, from insurance policies to hospital administrators.
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/@DGlaucomflecken
| gcanyon wrote:
| > She's been very sick for a long time and publicly struggling
| with enormous medical expenses (there have been various
| crowdfunding efforts over the years and she had to sell her
| `molly.com` domain to pay for treatment).
|
| My wife and I were both born in the U.S. and have lived here
| most of our lives; we love this place. The above is why we have
| zero intention to retire here.
| weinzierl wrote:
| I understand you, but health care is expensive everywhere.
| The difference between the US and many other countries is in
| the distribution of this cost.
|
| So, for example, if a young person from the US or elsewhere
| comes to Germany to study they will get health care basically
| for free.
|
| I think (and I might be wrong) if you move to Germany as
| retiree the public health care system would not be open to
| you. You could choose a private insurance but, very much like
| in the US, the premiums depend on age and existing
| preconditions. I cannot tell if this would be cheaper than in
| the US, but I doubt that it could be much cheaper. Also, I
| think it would be similar in most other EU countries.
|
| Of course you could move to a country with significantly
| lower living standards to save on medical cost, but then you
| would increase your likelihood of medical issues and not
| really gain any real advantage.
| gcanyon wrote:
| > health care is expensive everywhere
|
| That's simply not true: per capita spending on healthcare
| (regardless of how that spending happens) is dramatically
| higher in the U.S. than anywhere else on the planet. For
| example, Germany spends 60% Per Capita compared to the U.S.
| https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0006_health-care-oecd
| Spain spends just over 30% compared to the U.S.
|
| And I've paid for/received healthcare in Portugal,
| Thailand, Nepal, and England. It's more cost effective (I
| started to say cheaper and better, but "better" is a loaded
| word) pretty much everywhere else.
| weinzierl wrote:
| Out of interest: Did you receive public healthcare or did
| you take out a private insurance in those countries you
| mentioned? I'm especially curious if you were able to
| receive NHS health care as (I assume) a foreigner?
|
| When you say cheaper do you mean (private) health
| insurance or directly paying for medical services, or
| both?
| gcanyon wrote:
| Portugal: paid out of pocket, no insurance. A trip to the
| ER to refill a prescription (it's what our landlord told
| us to do) took about twenty minutes and cost under $30.
| Filling that prescription cost less than the copay in the
| U.S.
|
| Thailand: paid out of pocket, no insurance. A trip to the
| ER for digestive issues took under an hour and the visit
| plus antibiotics cost under $200. This was at Bumrungrad,
| one of the best hospitals in Thailand.
|
| I'll double-check, but I'm pretty confident my wife's
| care in the UK was under the NHS. Nepal was also her, I
| think it was out of pocket, but I'll check.
| weinzierl wrote:
| Thanks, that's insightful. I take your point from above.
| nikolay wrote:
| That's absolutely false. For example, I buy a brand
| medication in Europe without insurance for price many times
| lower than the generic drug in the State's copay! There
| numerous examples, but most recent example is my wife's
| Levothyroxine. I buy a German-made medication for $1 in
| Bulgaria. In the States, a generic version made by noname
| Indian company has a $10 copay. Same with the Metformin I
| buy. The original brand medication (Glucophage) I get at
| around $2/month supply. And this is just meds.
|
| The most advanced MRI in Bulgaria costs without insurance
| cost a fraction of the copay in the States.
|
| Same for labs. I recently got a comprehensive labs
| including advanced lipid profile (with lipoprotein(A) and
| ApoB, cholesterol fractions, etc.) for less than $20 out of
| pocket with no insurance. Same with my wife's thyroid test
| - full picture, not just TSH for less than $15. All self-
| ordered by the way! No need for intermediary companies to
| authorize it - you just go directly to a lab, which keeps
| the costs low as there's fierce competition for your
| business unlike in America where Labcorp and Quest keep the
| prices ultrahigh!
|
| An quantified American (by Abbott) COVID-19 IgM + IgG
| antibody test in Bulgaria was less than $20 - here a yes/no
| test starts at $75.
|
| Again, I'm talking about paying pure cost plus hefty
| private companies' margins here - no subsidy, no insurance,
| all up-to-date technology and materials.
|
| The margins in America are unimaginable for any humane
| organization anywhere in the world. Healthcare should never
| be a business!
| ploxiln wrote:
| > No need for intermediary companies to authorize it -
| you just go directly to a lab, which keeps the costs low
| as there's fierce competition for your business unlike in
| America
|
| > Healthcare should never be a business!
|
| ... seems to me like Healthcare should actually be a
| normal business. Instead of whatever it is in the US -
| which as you explain, really makes no sense.
| nikolay wrote:
| Yeah, because it's already a business but non-competitive
| like in the States. Pharmacies can still sell me
| medications without an Rx - it's not allowed, but they
| still do it, because why do I need to schedule a doctor's
| visit get a medication thats for life (like my wife's
| Levothyroxine).
| weinzierl wrote:
| That's from your privileged position but for the majority
| of Bulgarians an MRI is equally expensive than an MRI for
| the average American - simply unaffordable.
|
| For most people health care _is_ expensive no matter
| where they are.
| nikolay wrote:
| I am talking about absolute costs not affordability. MRI
| costs might be mostly salaries, but it's not the same for
| drugs, labs, etc. Given the much bigger purchasing power
| in the US, prices should be lower, not higher. Why the
| economics of consumer electronics don't apply to health
| care? TVs and laptops are much more expensive in
| Bulgaria, but drugs are way, way cheaper and not
| subsidized - and these are commodities. Levothyroxine is
| a commodity available around the globe. Why it's so
| expensive in the States?! Why are American pharmacies
| buying generics from India, which so often have recalls
| due to contamination, and don't buy European drugs (such
| as from BERLIN-CHEMIE [0])? Because they want much bigger
| margins - I have no other explanation.
|
| [0]: https://www.berlin-chemie.de/en-us/about-us/our-
| history
| weinzierl wrote:
| I take your point and learned something, thank you.
| maxerickson wrote:
| The cash price will often be lower than the copay (which
| isn't a good thing, but it signals that the issue is
| benefit design rather than cost of provision).
|
| For example, Walmart sells a month supply of
| levothyroxine for $4 if you don't get your PBM involved.
| nikolay wrote:
| Yeah, but Walmart generics are made in India by companies
| known for recalls due to carcinogen contamination. Not
| that recalls in Europe don't happen, but I'd rather
| purchase from a pharmaceutical company in business from
| the 19th century. If US regulators believe that India has
| more stringent pharmaceutical standards than Germany,
| then something is fishy! And there's so much corruption
| in generics [0]!
|
| [0]:
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/04/04/big-
| pharm...
| throwawayapples wrote:
| Extortionist medical insurers coupled with regulatory
| capture.
| microtherion wrote:
| I'm not German myself, but I'm pretty sure the public
| health care system is open to all legal residents, no
| matter what age they move there. But like most countries,
| there are significant hurdles to immigration, and they
| would be even higher for somebody in retirement age.
| weinzierl wrote:
| I am indeed German and to the best of my knowledge our
| health care system is not open to all legal residents. I
| worded it carefully above, because it is complicated and
| there might be loopholes, but in general a person older
| than 55 that has never been in the German health system
| will not get in.
| mongol wrote:
| What if they are EU citizens?
| weinzierl wrote:
| Doesn't matter. Even if you are a German citizen and by
| 55 you've never been in the health system you're out of
| luck.
| lfittl wrote:
| In the above described scenario (US-based retiree moving
| to Germany), its likely the social security totalization
| treaty applies, giving them access to the health system:
| https://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/ger
| man...
| microtherion wrote:
| So correct me if I'm wrong, but:
|
| * Germany has an Obamacare-like system: Insurance is
| private, but mandatory.
|
| * You can choose and change your insurance provider
| freely, and they cannot reject you
|
| So if that is true, health insurance companies have the
| risk of older residents joining, whether or not the
| previously resided in Germany, and it's not like they
| benefited from their contributions before.
|
| So how exactly would this exclusion work? Is insurance
| not mandatory for immigrants after a certain age? Do
| insurance companies have a right to reject them?
|
| I was not able to find a direct discussion of the
| question, but this page discussing the health problems of
| older immigrants (including "access to the health care
| system") does not mention the possibility that they would
| be excluded from the health care system altogether:
| https://heimatkunde.boell.de/de/2013/11/18/altere-
| migrantinn...
| Agingcoder wrote:
| I think it's public, not private.
| microtherion wrote:
| Ah, I was mistaken. I was correct in that insurance is
| mandatory, but most people get the insurance from a
| state-run insurance company:
|
| https://www.informedhealth.org/the-german-health-care-
| system...
|
| https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/progdesc/ssptw/2018-2019/
| eur...
|
| [Corrected to admit my error]
| samstave wrote:
| Norway?
|
| Where retire?
| bibanez wrote:
| You can find many places with good QOL that are cheaper,
| like Spain. That said, Norway's pension fund is very
| attractive...
| pnutjam wrote:
| She died at 60, so no eligibility for Medicare or Social
| Security. That's a nightmare scenario in the good old US of
| A. RIP
| terminous wrote:
| I think in this case, it would be OK to add [mollydotcom] to the
| title. That's how I knew her, not by her last name.
| kubafu wrote:
| Thank you Molly for all you did, a lot of us will keep building
| on that.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| If you were actively building for the Web in late 1990s and early
| 2000s, you would have definitely stumbled on Molly's work in one
| way or the other.
|
| The web will miss Molly E. Holzschlag.
|
| Now, I could not find her on LinkedIn; she must have deleted her
| profile. She was reaching out to people when her illness
| progressed (I think it was LinkedIn). I remember feeling sad
| watching her videos, talking about how the treatment was tiring
| her.
|
| It was always an excitement in the early days of the web when you
| are in a discussion forum and Molly was around too, answering to
| the list question. Looking up old emails, she owned
| https://www.molly.com but this seems to be something else now.
| henvic wrote:
| It's really sad. It looks like financial hardship hit hard and
| she decided to sell it to afford medication.
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20151211202252/http://www.molly....
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20151204202343/http://www.molly....
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20150711215305/http://www.molly....
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20160202163909/http://www.molly....
| andirk wrote:
| Anyone who was an advocate of web Accessibility from the early
| days is someone who knew that we are all God's (or whoever's)
| children. Rest in peace, Molly.
| fergie wrote:
| I met her a few times at Opera in Oslo, and she was truly
| somebody who embodied the spirit of the utopian promise of the
| web. A smart and charming woman.
|
| Its weird- she suddenly popped into my head the other day having
| not thought about her for years, and I was wondering how she was
| doing.
| oldmillalmond wrote:
| Could we get a black bar?
| simulo wrote:
| that would be fitting, I thought the same.
| isodev wrote:
| This is so heartbreaking. How does one request the black bar?
| Just send them an email from the contact link?
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Yes. You email hn at ycombinator dot com to request.
| Include thread link.
| simulo wrote:
| > Just send them an email from the contact link?
|
| I guess - this is what I did.
| qohen wrote:
| I sent an email last night. I don't know if quantity is
| important here, but it can't hurt to have multiple people
| dropping a line.
| jeremiahlee wrote:
| Absolutely worthy!
| jacquesm wrote:
| Oh that sucks. She's one of the few authors whose books about the
| web actually helped me build stuff. 60 only, way too young.
| wink wrote:
| Sad to hear this. As I wandered away from frontend work more and
| more over the years that's a name I haven't heard in a while, but
| in the late 90s/early 00s you definitely stumbled over her work
| here and there if you were around in those circles. When frontend
| development encompassed mostly HTML and CS (no JS).
| jdelsman wrote:
| Molly was incredibly kind to me. I met her a few times at
| conferences, and she always seemed to be bright, quirky and
| impossibly energetic. I am sorry to see this happen to such a
| lovely person. I hope she rests in power!
| JimDabell wrote:
| This is sad. She was omnipresent in the web development
| community, especially during pivotal moments for
| interoperability. Many of the things we take for granted these
| days we owe to her, the Web Standards Project, and people like
| her.
| jeremiahlee wrote:
| I remember the first time I met her at a Web dev conference. She
| chatted with me for a half hour, telling stories of browser
| rivalries and HTML5's renegade group that saved us all from
| XHTML. We ran into each other several times over the years. She
| always was kind, encouraging, and genuinely interested in what I
| had to say. She gave us all so much. Her suffering over the last
| decade was a cruel fate.
| jzb wrote:
| I used to follow Molly's blog and writing and really enjoyed her
| voice and learned a lot from her. I'm embarrassed to say that
| it's been a long time since I thought about her, and it's really
| heartbreaking she passed away so young and after so much
| struggle.
|
| Our systems suck. Nobody should have to fight so hard to get the
| treatment they need. It's doubly sad when it's someone who has
| made significant contributions to the world and then is
| essentially forgotten. But that shouldn't happen to anybody.
| souvic wrote:
| Her Twitter bio read, "It is the true teacher who leaves the
| class knowing they have learned the most."
|
| Such a mesmerising human being!
| simulo wrote:
| That is sad. She was with the web from its early days (her first
| book on the subject is from 1996), taught a lot of people, and
| bridged several communities: design, web standards, and
| accessability
| hellweaver666 wrote:
| This is super sad. I learnt HTML and CSS from following tutorials
| by Molly, even met her a couple of times at conferences. I really
| can't understate how much this woman shaped the web as we know it
| today. Rest well Molly!
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Holzschlag
|
| https://webwithmolly.com/
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(page generated 2023-09-06 20:03 UTC)