[HN Gopher] Satlas: Open Geospatial Data Generated by AI
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Satlas: Open Geospatial Data Generated by AI
        
       Author : jonbaer
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2023-09-05 03:35 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (satlas.allen.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (satlas.allen.ai)
        
       | pcmill wrote:
       | Just a heads up but the super resolution example absolutely spams
       | the history API in your browser if you move the map slightly. You
       | could add a bit of delay before trying to save the new location
       | in the URL.
        
         | favyen wrote:
         | Thanks for pointing this out! We will look into fixing it.
        
         | tuukkah wrote:
         | They need to learn when to use history.pushState vs
         | history.replaceState
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | Or, how about not saving the location in the URL at all when
         | moving the map? I guess there must be a reason why none of the
         | mainstream map webapps does something like this...
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | it tracks everything you do while interacting with it --
           | FEATURE?
        
           | tuukkah wrote:
           | Others do this too, just using replaceState.
        
           | jimktrains2 wrote:
           | It allows you to copy and paste the url to link someone to
           | what you're seeing. It's a good thing if sone right.
           | 
           | Also, google maps changes the url as you pan and zoom.
        
       | uphone wrote:
       | I'm curious about the application and implication of using
       | generative model for comparative analysis. Wherein, if the
       | results are incorrect or a have a slight error in a map, can lead
       | to incorrect conclusion and impact on policy. This observation is
       | not centered on the Satlas projects because medical image
       | analysis is also out there (but may be the FDA can drive some
       | regulation). Broader question, how would we have to think about
       | generative modeling for applications that are more then
       | entertainment and cannot be corrected/ verified by a person (like
       | the user in case of ChatGPT)
        
         | favyen wrote:
         | I fully agree that errors in extracted data can lead to making
         | incorrect decisions/policies. Even for applications where
         | accuracy is paramount, though, I think error-prone models still
         | have their uses:
         | 
         | - For applications that only need summary statistics over
         | certain geographies, analyzing small samples of data can yield
         | correction factors and error estimates.
         | 
         | - The data could also be combined with manual verification to
         | improve existing higher-precision but lower-recall datasets
         | (e.g. OpenStreetMap where features are more likely to be
         | correct but also have less overall coverage).
        
       | joelhaasnoot wrote:
       | So if I'm understanding correctly this is using AI to fancily
       | upscale Senitel 2 data, essentially guessing what it's seeing,
       | and then suggesting the output of that should be used for making
       | new products/decisions/models. Sounds a bit like CSI Zoom Enhance
       | stuff...
        
         | arthur2e5 wrote:
         | The super-res is surprisingly usable for making sense of land
         | use changes. With OpenStreetMap editing, one common challenge
         | is that out of the usable (license-wise) imagery, the high-defs
         | ones are old and the new ones from Sentinel are low-def. A lot
         | of switching, squinting, and gusssing is required to understand
         | of what's going on, even when most of the work is as basic as
         | trying to spot this old road in the blurry new image. This
         | super-res seems to do that well enough. It doesn't have enough
         | information to guess the exact shape of buildings and that's
         | okay.
         | 
         | They also do some object recognition, which is useful if you're
         | an electric infrastructure nut. It spotted some solar fields in
         | Shanghai which I've never heard of before -- a look at the same
         | coordinates (30.753, 121.392) on Google sure shows the expected
         | blue.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | If machines can hallucinate in text form, they surely can
         | hallucinate in maps.
        
         | supdudesupdude wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
         | favyen wrote:
         | The models we use to extract the geospatial data (like solar
         | farm and offshore platform positions) from Sentinel-2 imagery
         | are currently separate from the Sentinel-2 upscaling model,
         | which is a more exploratory project.
         | 
         | We report the accuracy of the data at [1]; the Satlas project
         | is quite new and we're aiming to improve accuracy as well as
         | add more categories over time.
         | 
         | We expect the geospatial data will be useful for certain
         | applications, but I agree that the upscaled super-resolution
         | output has more limited uses, especially in its current state
         | outside the US since it is trained using NAIP imagery that is
         | only available in the continental US. We're exploring methods
         | to quantify and improve the accuracy of the upscaled imagery.
         | 
         | Note that the model weights, training data, and generated
         | geospatial data can all be downloaded at [2].
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://github.com/allenai/satlas/blob/main/DataValidationRe...
         | 
         | [2] https://github.com/allenai/satlas
        
           | arthur2e5 wrote:
           | Does satlas currently use any channels other than Sentinel's
           | visible RGB? I imagine that those near IR bands can be very
           | useful for plant-related tasks and (with a long stretch)
           | potentially help with object discrimination by adding an
           | extra band.
        
             | favyen wrote:
             | The marine infrastructure (offshore platform and offshore
             | wind turbine) and super-resolution models only use RGB
             | bands (B04, B03, B02), while the solar farm, onshore wind
             | turbine, and tree cover models use 9 Sentinel-2 bands (add
             | B05, B06, B07, B08, B11, and B12). With enough high-quality
             | labels, the extra bands do provide slightly improved
             | performance (1-2% gain in our accuracy metric, e.g. from
             | 89% to 91%), but we don't have a detailed comparison or
             | analysis at this time.
             | 
             | Also, all of the models input three or four images of the
             | same location (captured within a few months), with max
             | temporal pooling used at intermediate layers to enable
             | model to synthesize information across the images. This
             | helps a lot, definitely when one image has a section
             | obscured by clouds (so model can use the other images
             | instead), and maybe also when different images provide
             | different information (e.g. shadows going in different
             | directions due to slightly different times of day).
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | Do you by chance have comparisons of what the terrain
           | actually looks like without the AI upscale? would be
           | interesting to see how much it gets right.
        
             | favyen wrote:
             | We plan to eventually add some real paid high-res imagery
             | to the map just as a comparison, but for now you would need
             | to look at the map at https://satlas.allen.ai/map (select
             | Super Resolution) and compare it to a source of aerial
             | imagery like Google Maps or Bing Maps at the same spot.
        
               | giancarlostoro wrote:
               | Sounds good, it's been a little while since I've touched
               | anything GIS related, but it was kind of fun while at the
               | same time stressful for me as a junior developer at the
               | time. I'm definitely curious how insanely accurate AI
               | upscaling will become with stuff like this, at least in
               | terms of getting a good amount of the terrain correct.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-09-06 20:00 UTC)