[HN Gopher] Man, Myth and Magic
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Man, Myth and Magic
Author : benbreen
Score : 120 points
Date : 2023-09-04 23:32 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.johncoulthart.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.johncoulthart.com)
| languagehacker wrote:
| Picked up the set at a garage sale when I was a kid. Super
| formative stuff.
| jeroenvlek wrote:
| Wow, I only knew the house classic by the same title [1]. My
| daughter would love these books.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/wT1luDOHpqk?si=vxowAdBXnYJPL7c1
| jhbadger wrote:
| There was also a fairly obscure table-top RPG of the title
| which was set in ancient (Greek/Roman/Egyptian) times rather
| than the typical medieval settings of RPGs.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man,_Myth_%26_Magic_(role-play...
| VagabundoP wrote:
| This is gold for my RPG fantasy campaigns. Thanks to OP for
| posting.
|
| If anyone wants to see a good film adaptation of some of this
| stuff watch A Dark Song (2016).
|
| And to a lesser extent You Are Not My Mother (2021) - this one is
| more folklore based.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| Aw jeez, my mom had these books. She wouldn't let me read them as
| a kid. I'll elaborate a bit, I don't think I'll dox myself, since
| she kept to herself a lot.
|
| Unfortunately I don't have space for them, so her copies either
| got sold or trashed when she recently died of a very treatable
| illness that she elected to not treat or mention to anyone for
| several years.
|
| I did keep her Clan of the Cave Bear books (Children of the
| Earth?) because the cover art always enchanted me, and I judge
| books by their covers.
|
| I also kept a few of her romance novels. She never talked to me
| about sex beyond "wear a condom" type advice, and her and my dad
| completely hated each other for as long as I could remember. So
| it's funny to imagine her having a sex drive. She was pretty old
| when she had me, I guess usually you have to have some sex drive
| to get pregnant, and then it just faded after I came along.
|
| I like to think that people will read meaning into my bookshelf
| when I die, but seeing it from the other side - No. The math
| books will get chucked. Maybe someone will keep a couple volumes
| of manga as a novelty. The book with a secret compartment will be
| worth a couple bucks. The books are worth more to me as
| decorations than to anyone else as anything. It's all right, I
| guess.
|
| I don't know what to think. Mom's good parts deserved better than
| her bad parts. I guess there isn't much meaning to it all in the
| end. She died doing what she loved, playing with crystals and
| avoiding doctors.
| DougMerritt wrote:
| > I don't think I'll dox myself, since she kept to herself a
| lot.
|
| It took me very little detective work to determine that you
| ...(drum roll) are me.
|
| No wonder I almost posted the above.
|
| > I judge books by their covers.
|
| On second thought, although I like great covers, you're not me.
| Carry on; you do you.
| gilleain wrote:
| I always judge books by their covers - that's what covers are
| for! You look at the image they chose to use, read the blurb
| on the back, and decide whether you want to read it.
|
| (Yes, I know - the phrase means "Look past surface details
| and see inner beauty" and so on. It's just that for books the
| heuristic works pretty well).
| krapp wrote:
| It doesn't really, because a book cover is advertising, not
| information - it doesn't really tell you any more about the
| contents of the book than the pictures of food on a fast
| food menu accurately represent what you get on your plate.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Yes, it's marketing material.
|
| Marketing material is often the best reference you have
| to discover what something is about. Also, the pictures
| of food on a menu usually inform you better what you'll
| get than a realistic picture.
|
| Marketing has many functions, a large share of them are
| hindered by misleading you. A few are not. The result is
| usually very transparent (but effective).
| mandmandam wrote:
| That's actually a good analogy, because the pictures of
| food on fast food menus _are still useful_ in most cases.
| You can see the lettuce poking out and ask for it to be
| removed, or ask for extra cheese.
|
| The way a book is advertised absolutely tells you about
| the book, in most cases. There is a series of thought and
| decisions which go into making a cover, including finding
| a compatible artist and giving them a solid brief.
|
| As with fast food, there are exceptions... But they are
| _exceptions_. It may be more of an heuristic than a rule,
| but it 's undoubtedly often useful. The cover is part of
| the book, and an important part; both up to and beyond
| the advertisement.
| edgyquant wrote:
| It's not a good analogy. Fast food images show the
| sandwich, even if a better version of it. This isn't
| always the case for books, for instance in the expanse
| series the authors stated they write the book and send it
| off and then the publisher picks an image which has
| little relation to the books plot and was solely chosen
| to look cool alongside the books name.
| mandmandam wrote:
| I'm not a super fan, but searching for 'The Expanse book
| covers' looks about right to my eyes.
|
| https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=the+expanse+book+covers&
| atb...
|
| You see they're in space, you get the impression that
| there's ships, that it's gritty, that it's sci fi, etc.
|
| _None_ of those images look a million miles from the
| tone of the series, much less outright misleading.
|
| If there are exceptions to that, then they're exceptions
| to a clear general rule; much like with fast food menu
| pics.
| NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
| A book with a cover is a collaboration of artists.
| Perhaps forced by the publisher, that the author and
| painter would never attempt on their own, but a
| collaboration nonetheless. Together, they have created
| something more than the sum of its parts.
|
| And while it's true this can neither vouch for nor indict
| the writing itself, the rest of us are allowed to enjoy
| the art just the same.
|
| Besides, the new digital era debunks your claim... cover
| images are still included in epubs even if those do not
| sit on the wire rack next to the cashier at the store.
| swayvil wrote:
| It's a bit of both.
|
| And there is taste to consider too. Good books get good
| cover art.
|
| Or do they?
| swayvil wrote:
| It's a good heuristic for pretty much everything.
|
| "Thoughts about a thing" is a kind of cover too. Portable,
| personalized, communicable. Wildly popular.
|
| Does it get at the inner reality? Maybe, maybe not. Is it
| useful? Yes.
|
| Science could be called a cover optimizer.
| ekanes wrote:
| Agree about books but I've found you can judge a restaurant
| by the font they choose outside for their name (!).
|
| -\\_(tsu)_/-
| yard2010 wrote:
| I can't help but feel great empathy.. I wish you and your
| family all the best
| noelwelsh wrote:
| My recollection is that the Children of the Earth series is
| basically soft porn in anthropological wrappings.
| jhbadger wrote:
| Basically yes. Back in the day they were one of the most
| popular books for "concerned parents" to try to get banned
| from school libraries because of the sex scenes. And the
| anthropology wasn't that accurate even for the time, although
| it was amusingly correct in its assertion that Neanderthals
| and early Homo sapiens were amorous together, long before
| people like Svante Paabo showed that with actual genetics.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| I read the first chapter and then got bored and read the
| synopsis on Wikipedia. That kinda ruined the magic for me.
|
| Just like with video game skyboxes, it's more fun sometimes
| to look at the cover and imagine that the book is profound
| and would deeply resonate with one's soul. In Skyrim you can
| actually visit the mountains on the horizon, and they're just
| boring mountains. What a letdown!
| busterarm wrote:
| I had the Mysteries of the Unknown books as a kid instead. What a
| hoot.
|
| I kinda wanna pick these up to pair with the set.
| hnfong wrote:
| No idea how this link ended up in HN, but (to put it somewhat
| strangely) it was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.
| 5- wrote:
| > how this link ended up in HN
|
| the submitter writes https://resobscura.substack.com/ which is
| also occasionally featured on hn and is generally well
| received.
| dang wrote:
| And is generally awesome. Ben's one of the most interesting
| people I know of on HN.
| 5- wrote:
| indeed! i do miss the old newsletter that had random
| curious bits and links. anything similar nowadays?
|
| https://tinyletter.com/resobscura/archive
| gilbertbw wrote:
| I think the substack linked in the grandparent is a
| continuation of this?
| tinix wrote:
| I'd say magick, occult, and discordian content fits right in...
|
| Hail Eris!
| labster wrote:
| All Hail Discordia!
|
| For some reason HN has been into the occult lately. Which is
| great for me, because I'm writing some fanfic for A Certain
| Scientific Railgun. I've been a bit unsatisfied with
| Crowley's characterization therein and been and it's useful
| to read other sources.
| ReactiveJelly wrote:
| You might appreciate how silly this thought is - I watched
| a few episodes of Railgun and what bugged me most was that
| her weapon doesn't seem to be a railgun at all.
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| It's the magic of HN!
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| Any specific chapters people would recommend checking out?
|
| I love all of this occult stuff but have never really dived in
| too much to the topic. Magic systems in general fascinate me, and
| after going through pretty much all major fantasy series I've
| started getting interested in "real world" magic systems. There's
| so much fascinating deep lore that rarely gets explored. Most
| recently I learned about these angels called Uthra [0].
|
| Another one that interests me is the movement with magic rocks.
| There's tons of websites that talk about how certain rocks have
| these magical powers, but I wonder where it all originated from.
| Maybe the information evolved over time and was spread through
| word of mouth.
|
| I think it's weird that some people seem so ready to completely
| dismiss any interest in these magic systems while also being huge
| fans of stuff like Harry Potter and other fantasy series.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uthra
| rwnspace wrote:
| Magical practice (and occultism and gnosticism in the wider
| umbrella) is such an interesting phenomena. So many modern
| activities are connected to or quietly very influenced by it,
| particularly therapy, along with many notable figures in the
| natural sciences, computer science, philosophy. It's my
| favourite bit of anthropology (which I seem to be drawn to more
| the older I get).
|
| Some reading in this area I've enjoyed:
|
| - Magic, Science & Religion - Malinowski
|
| - Technic and Magic - Campagna
|
| - Stolen Lightning - O'Keefe
|
| - Ramon Lull (no specific recommendation)
| lioeters wrote:
| > talk about how certain rocks have these magical powers, but I
| wonder where it all originated from
|
| From the Stone Age, of course! Pun intended, but seriously,
| these beliefs about magical powers of stones, plants, stars,
| angels - their roots go deep and far back into the history of
| humanity, perhaps to the very beginning.
| krapp wrote:
| Not specifically what you're asking for but the Esoterica
| channel and Modern Hermeticist on YT may be of interest to
| you[0].
|
| [0]https://www.youtube.com/@TheEsotericaChannel
|
| [1]https://www.youtube.com/@TheModernHermeticist/videos
|
| >I think it's weird that some people seem so ready to
| completely dismiss any interest in these magic systems while
| also being huge fans of stuff like Harry Potter and other
| fantasy series.
|
| People dismiss interest in them as _realistic and plausible_
| models that actually work in real life (or they 're an
| Abrahamist who believes any representation of the occult, even
| fictional, invites satanic influence.) People die because they
| would rather trust alchemy and crystal woo-woo nonsense to cure
| their cancer more so than chemotherapy. Folklore and fantasy is
| a different thing, though.
| Jun8 wrote:
| "Cavendish had been the author of The Black Arts in 1967, a book
| which I still rate as one of the best general introductions to
| Western occultism."
|
| OMG, they had this book in our high school library and for some
| unknown reason I checked out and read it, interesting experience
| for a 15 year old! It was comprehensive and had excerpts from
| grimoires from Middle Ages on how to summon sprits. It had a
| strange green-black cover (https://www.chegg.com/textbooks/the-
| black-arts-40th-edition-...).
|
| Haven't thought about it in nearly 40 years and I see it on HN!
| Chance? I think not.
| eru wrote:
| When I hear of the Black Arts I think of the German 'Schwarze
| Kunst'.
|
| Despite what the literal translation might make you think, the
| German term does not refer to the occult. It relates to the art
| and craft of printing.
|
| 'Weisse Kunst', the white arts, apparently refers to paper
| making.
| hef19898 wrote:
| 'Schwarze Kunst' can also be used as synonym for magic and
| all kinds occult stuff. Maybe because printing was something
| people didn't really understand back then.
| garba_dlm wrote:
| but here I was thinking it had something to do with
| "blacksmiths are loud" hence we should vanish them to the
| outskirts of the city cuz they're annoying to be nearby
|
| which spiraled into "black(smiths) go away" lol
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