[HN Gopher] Why new furniture doesn't last long
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       Why new furniture doesn't last long
        
       Author : williamsmj
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2023-09-05 15:49 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | dirtyid wrote:
       | Real wood furniture got bad / expensive.
       | 
       | Lots of decent mid level sheet steel and plastic furniture
       | options now. Not to everyones taste, but they'll last decades +
       | multiple moves.
       | 
       | Woods probably more sustainable, but access to nice / old quality
       | wood isn't.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | Unsurprisingly, as someone once said, "It's the economy, stupid."
        
       | blueyes wrote:
       | TLDR: Plywood (and to some extent plastic) replaced solid wood.
       | Got imported from overseas rather than made domestically. Shifted
       | from an artisanal market to a low-cost mass market.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | Honestly, I wish it were plywood, it's actually MDF or other
         | kind of pressboard.
        
           | zihotki wrote:
           | I wonder why you consider it a problem. Mdf and variations
           | are much more stable, don't warp due to humidity. For non-
           | premium furniture it's a perfect choice.
        
             | angry_moose wrote:
             | And those properties make it well suited for things like
             | cabinet panels that don't take load.
             | 
             | MDF has poor structural strength, next to zero holding
             | strength for fasteners (the first thing to go on ikea
             | furniture is always the screw holes), and is very prone to
             | water damage.
        
           | Joker_vD wrote:
           | Mmm, chipboard. Could as well be called "cheapboard". Low
           | quality at low cost so you can pay twice.
        
             | foobarian wrote:
             | My biggest issue with them is they handle water very
             | poorly. The affected piece of the board swells and warps,
             | and never returns to original shape.
        
               | geodel wrote:
               | Very true. A few times I forgot wet wipes after cleaning
               | and next day it was like wtf happened to this table.
        
               | tfandango wrote:
               | yes, they used this for kickboard in my kitchen and even
               | occasional spills and drips will cause swelling. Then you
               | can't do anything about it but tear it out or try to
               | repair with wood putty or something like that.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | And then we get to cardboard. You know surfaces
             | structure...
             | 
             | Very cheap, good enough if you never hit it properly with
             | anything.
        
       | blueridge wrote:
       | I share this list of furniture makers anytime a post about modern
       | furniture comes up. I usually get dinged for posting luxury
       | goods, and am told I must be detached from reality. Here it is
       | anyway:
       | 
       | If you're in the market for buy-it-for-life solid wood furniture:
       | 
       | https://www.thejoinery.com
       | 
       | https://vermontwoodsstudios.com/
       | 
       | https://hedgehousefurniture.com
       | 
       | https://57stdesign.com
       | 
       | https://www.57thstreetbookcase.com/ (all bookcases, some veneer
       | and plywood)
       | 
       | https://www.spekeklein.com/home
       | 
       | https://www.pompy.com/
       | 
       | https://www.chiltons.com/
       | 
       | https://roomandboard.com (mix of solid and veneer, some MDF)
       | 
       | These makers are in a league of their own, very expensive,
       | incredibly beautiful hand-made pieces:
       | 
       | https://www.sammaloofwoodworker.com
       | 
       | https://www.thosmoser.com (highly recommended)
       | 
       | https://nakashimawoodworkers.com (new commissions around $7K-$15K
       | for a coffee table, $20K-40K for dining table, plus shipping;
       | older Nakashima pieces are highly valued in the art world and
       | sell anywhere between $15K-$300K)
       | 
       | https://www.wright20.com/search/nakashima/items#past
       | 
       | I used to own a lot of IKEA furniture and as I've gotten older,
       | have slowly replaced those pieces with items from Knoll, with
       | custom pieces from local woodworkers, with a few pieces from the
       | studios listed above. Yes, they're expensive.
       | 
       | But if you like art and design and you care about quality, you
       | save for what you want to buy. I wanted to be surrounded by great
       | craftsmanship, so instead of buying "stuff" and instead of
       | spending money on lots of subscriptions and services, or
       | constantly upgrading phones and computers, I buy one piece of
       | nice furniture every year. I believe the more you appreciate the
       | things around you, the more they begin to influence your own
       | work, and your sense of place.
       | 
       | I regularly see a lot of IKEA furniture on the side of the road
       | and in dumpsters. I think this is the difference between buying
       | "things" and having "possessions" but that's a discussion for
       | another day.
       | 
       | PS: Find a local woodworker, they'll build what you want and
       | it'll be better than anything you can buy at the store.
        
       | tfandango wrote:
       | The same goes for hiring built in furniture. I got some quotes
       | for about 8ft of cabinets with some bookshelves (painted, not
       | even nice wood, probably decent ply) and it came in at 10k. I
       | knew it would cost more than buying something from the furniture
       | store but that really threw me. I think it's why we see so many
       | "ikea hacks" online.
        
         | landmass wrote:
         | I was told by a furniture store owner 20 years to use local
         | cabinet makers to build bookshelves for you. He said never to
         | have shelves installed in your house - a movable bookshelf
         | costs the same as an installed one and you can take it with you
         | when you move.
        
       | ketzo wrote:
       | One thing that's not mentioned anywhere in this article is that a
       | lot of that super-solid, heirloom-quality furniture _is_ still
       | around -- and people are very willing to buy secondhand!
       | 
       | Facebook Marketplace/Craigslist/estate sales are a goldmine for
       | stuff like this. This is only gonna be more true as the baby
       | boomers continue to age. I wonder how much that impacts the
       | market for the new stuff.
        
         | fallinghawks wrote:
         | I like art deco and when I finally became a homeowner in 2008 I
         | spent a couple years replacing the stuff I'd had since college.
         | Craigslist got me an expandable dining table, a mahogany record
         | cabinet with ancient player (made by Motorola!), a credenza, an
         | armoire, a cedar blanket chest, and a china cabinet. Everything
         | was $100-$350 each and a total of about $1350 for all. Solid
         | wood, beautiful inlay work, and will outlast me.
        
       | freitzkriesler2 wrote:
       | I blame downward price pressure and globalization.
       | 
       | When it comes to furniture, I only buy solid wood now. Ideally
       | used. The best place to get antiques is from rust belt towns
       | because the prices are actually affordable. The majority of my
       | stuff too were either street finds (California was great for good
       | free stuff) or hand me downs.
       | 
       | I might check out some consignment stores back east. Anything
       | solid wood is held onto. I will never buy awful Ikea junk again.
        
       | VincentEvans wrote:
       | Regarding Ikea and similar self-assemble furniture - even though
       | the assembly instruction manual does not call for it - use wood
       | glue when assembling. It will make it A LOT stronger and it will
       | even survive moves.
       | 
       | One thing that didn't make sense to me in the article is a claim
       | that particle board or MDF is lighter than solid wood. I don't
       | think it's necessarily true - I have wood furniture made of pine
       | and cherry that is a lot lighter than Ikea pieces. MDF which is
       | commonly used in Ikea is especially heavy, so much so that Ikea
       | inserts a lot of hollow spaces concealed underneath laminate
       | exterior to reduce weight.
        
         | nemo44x wrote:
         | Isn't the issue the screws tearing through the soft wood and/or
         | engineered wood?
        
           | VincentEvans wrote:
           | Furniture made of soft wood is certainly more susceptible to
           | damage and denting than if made from hardwood, sure.
           | Personally I find the trade off acceptable - I have a narrow
           | six foot book shelf that I can lift with one arm and a much
           | smaller Ikea one that needs two people to move, but
           | preferences are subjective.
           | 
           | Regarding screws however, furniture made from wood using
           | approaches traditional for wood-made furniture - don't rely
           | on screws all that much, but rather mortises, dados, and
           | various other joints held by glue, dowels, and sometimes
           | staples or furniture nails that assist holding joints
           | together until glue dries. Once dried - glue is often
           | stronger than the wood it holds together and attempting to
           | separate the bonded pieces results in splitting the wood
           | rather than breaking the bond.
        
           | falcolas wrote:
           | Yes, making wood glue even more valuable if you want it to
           | last.
        
           | evan_ wrote:
           | Ikea furniture usually uses these funky cam lock nuts and
           | bolts in particle board pieces, rather than screws:
           | 
           | https://www.furnitureparts.com/products/cam-lock-nuts-
           | ikea-p...
           | 
           | These turn the force into compression over a larger diameter
           | so it's less likely to cause a problem.
           | 
           | I've actually had pretty good experiences with Ikea stuff
           | holding up over time, even across multiple moves.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | Use wood glue where, though? Its advice that isn't "obvious".
         | I'm not a big furniture person, and I'm inferring you mean to
         | do things like add some additional bind to assembled spots,
         | e.g. when I screw in the backing for the chair I could use wood
         | glue on the seam to give it more strength, but its not always
         | obvious how I'm suppose to apply these Ikea "hacks" as it were.
        
           | BizarreByte wrote:
           | On any interlocking joints. On ikea stuff that's typically
           | dowels, dados, and mortise and tenons.
           | 
           | I also like to glue those weird locking screw inserts.
        
           | VincentEvans wrote:
           | Most of Ikea pieces I've assembled utilize wooden dowels in
           | addition to their special locking bolts. Definitely use glue
           | in all holes that are meant for wooden dowels. If you wish to
           | go an extra mile - use a thin bead of wood glue anywhere two
           | wood surfaces meet, tighten the screws and then wipe off the
           | excess that gets squeezed out of the seam. Wood glue is water
           | soluble so clean up is easy before it dries.
        
         | fallinghawks wrote:
         | Almost everything from IKEA is particle board or MDF. If it's
         | solid wood it will be priced higher - even pine. I have a
         | couple of particle board items from them and they are
         | definitely heavier compared to actual wood.
        
       | angry_moose wrote:
       | For the real bottom-of-the-barrel, there are brands that are
       | literally just cardboard held together by double-sided tape now.
       | My wife accidentally ordered one of their vinyl record stands. To
       | be fair, it actually did sortof ok until we made the mistake of
       | moving it across the room (we took the records out first):
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/stores/WayBasics/page/792E6148-46C9-4...
        
       | flappyeagle wrote:
       | Premise is incorrect. Furniture is great. You can pay whatever
       | you want and get appropriate quality.
       | 
       | Low end ikea stuff works great if you put it together right and
       | use some glue.
       | 
       | Mid tier furniture is still available -- it's just going to look
       | very traditional.
       | 
       | High end is available to those with $$$ like it's always been
        
       | stetrain wrote:
       | My biggest issue is that, like so many markets, there is a
       | "missing middle" created by this downward price pressure.
       | 
       | For the most part if you want a piece of furniture (ie a
       | nightstand), there are two categories. Either you buy the
       | Amazon/Wayfair version made of pressboard for $100-$200, or you
       | can find a solid wood heirloom version for $2,000+. The domestic
       | plywood or cheaper solid wood options are no longer mass produced
       | at the scale that they used to be.
       | 
       | There's very little in between, even if I'm willing to pay a bit
       | more for something a bit nicer.
       | 
       | I think one reason Ikea is so popular is that they ride the upper
       | end of the cheap segment. Offering low-priced items but with
       | reasonable instructions, a minimum expectation of quality, and at
       | least there's a physical store to look at it before you buy and
       | return it if it's damaged or doesn't work.
        
         | suoduandao3 wrote:
         | used furniture is a good compromise there, though it's harder
         | to get a consistent style when going that route. Part of Ikea
         | furniture's appeal is also that it looks like other Ikea
         | furniture.
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | This has been how I've largely addressed the missing middle
           | issue for myself-- I'm not up for $2000+ pieces, but when I
           | want to do better than flat-pack trash, getting something for
           | $300-500 second hand seems like a solid way to go.
        
           | morkalork wrote:
           | You can definitely find nice stuff made out of maple on
           | Facebook marketplace if you're patient.
        
           | richbell wrote:
           | Dealing with bed bugs and other pests has made me
           | apprehensive about purchasing used furniture. It's a shame
           | because you can usually find great deals on FB Marketplace,
           | Craigslist, Kijiji etc.
        
             | freitzkriesler2 wrote:
             | Solution to this is to leave it in a quarantine room for up
             | to 5 months (if you have the space).
             | 
             | Though and I say this anecdotally, when I moved back to the
             | States I ended up refurnishing most of my house using
             | street finds. We're talking like 10 different furniture
             | finds include a futon frame (we bought a new mattress).
             | Only 1 of those was upolsteres but was in great condition.
             | 
             | No bed bugs, I got lucky.
        
               | yowzadave wrote:
               | Where is it a cost-saving solution to pay for a
               | quarantine room that will be unused for other purposes
               | for up to 5 months, all so you can save a few hundred
               | dollars by buying used furniture?
        
               | freitzkriesler2 wrote:
               | It's not unless you've got the space, I have a shed I put
               | stuff in and let anything on it starve to death. You have
               | to plan on for it
        
           | philsnow wrote:
           | I live on the west coast, and sometimes visit family in the
           | Midwest. The quality and quantity of used furniture available
           | over there is so much better.
           | 
           | I attribute this to much of California only becoming as
           | densely populated as it is (which is to say, not) after
           | around the 1950s. While there are families who have lived
           | here for five or more generations, they're by far the
           | exception rather than the norm. The overwhelming majority of
           | people who are here have comparatively shallow roots, didn't
           | bring furniture with them when they came here, and even if
           | they have access to good furniture from elsewhere, it's cheap
           | and good enough to go to ikea.
        
           | AlanYx wrote:
           | One of the things that undermines the used furniture market
           | for higher-end furniture is storage. Larger pieces often get
           | stored somewhere for a period before they're sold, but unlike
           | veneered MDF, solid wood pieces are vulnerable to get warped
           | by rapid changes in moisture, particularly if they get
           | temporarily stored in non-climate-controlled storage
           | facilities. I wonder if there's a business opportunity for
           | some kind of efficient middleman that takes high end
           | furniture off people's hands and stores it properly while
           | facilitating resale.
        
             | novok wrote:
             | There are all sorts of people who run small businesses like
             | this, who often sell on craigslist and a shopify store. I
             | bought one in his storage warehouse, nice guy.
        
         | 5040 wrote:
         | I was recently looking for a shelving unit for vinyl records.
         | The Ikea solution was 100$. Next step up were 1000$ home-made
         | units on Etsy. In the end, I went with Ikea. Something in the
         | middle would have been nice.
        
         | reacharavindh wrote:
         | True, proper wood furniture have become more of a luxury as
         | more and more utility is drawn from the likes of mass
         | manufactured furniture like that of IKEA's.
         | 
         | I'm a weekend woodworker, and I have built a lot of things for
         | my house like my kid's cradle, bed, our custom wardrobe, fancy
         | looking shelves etc. However, even I think IKEA furniture has
         | its place in my house. Our bed for example is IKEA MALM, our
         | kitchen is made by IKEA. Some things are just not worth my time
         | and effort and the cost of solid wood. IKEA quality is good
         | enough and the price is right for them.
         | 
         | Recently, I have been bombarded with ads from some smallish
         | furniture companies from Europe on Facebook. Dont know how the
         | algorith decided on it, but it did. I see several companies
         | that do few things and do them well, but not targeted at teh
         | luxury buyer or vintage collector. They are targeted that a
         | consumer looking for better than IKEA like you described.
         | Perhaps, what you're looking for is coming already and you need
         | to look deeper for now.
        
         | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
         | > There's very little in between, even if I'm willing to pay a
         | bit more for something a bit nicer.
         | 
         | Same has happened in clothing. To get something other than
         | cheap crap made out of synthetic fibers, you now have to go
         | premium. Are people really less discerning than they used to
         | be? Has the average purchasing power declined? Or is the
         | problem that people don't want to commit to something that
         | lasts for years, because they fear their taste may change?
        
           | LastTrain wrote:
           | People used to spend a lot more, per item, on clothing. The
           | real culprit in this case is that we have become accustomed
           | to things being cheap.
        
         | lbwtaylor wrote:
         | And part of the problem is that it is so hard to tell if the
         | middle priced goods are worth it. For example:
         | 
         | - is it real wood but cheaply finished so the wood wears
         | quickly and needs refinishing quickly. Seen this problem so
         | often at priced places like crate & barrel.
         | 
         | - how do you tell good quality veneer from bad?
         | 
         | - showcase pieces of higher quality than what's delivered to
         | your house. Room & board with their real wood furniture can be
         | like this - I got a piece that was more knots than wood.
        
           | sheepybloke wrote:
           | Exactly. I've been looking for bookshelves and wanted
           | something that wasn't just Ikea's Billy. The price jump to
           | something from Pottery Barn is 3-4x the Ikea price, but from
           | the quality you see at the showroom, it should be closer to
           | 1.5-2x the price. I also feel a bit jaded from the mid-tier
           | furniture showrooms, which offer Wayfair quality at 2x the
           | price. I just want something that will survive a move while
           | not having to look at payment plan!
        
             | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
             | Why care about furniture surviving a move, when you can buy
             | and build the same shit at your destination for cheap? And
             | 'gift' the old to your follow renters, or just discard it?
        
         | ChatGTP wrote:
         | I know this is extreme and not available to everyone, but I'm
         | just making my own furniture because of the reasons you cite.
         | 
         | Yes I have the room, money and a little time to build my own
         | workshop, but really, it's 100% more satisfying, attractive and
         | much much cheaper to DIY.
         | 
         | It's really turned into quite the passion for me. Once I pay
         | off me house I'd think about investing more time into it.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I had an argument with my therapist about this.
       | 
       | My wife just gave birth to my daughter, we moved a bookshelf my
       | grandfather built for me when I was born into her nursery and now
       | my office is a mess, my books and such scattered. The mess is
       | stressing me out.
       | 
       | I am looking for a bookshelf to replace it, and told him I
       | haven't found anything I thought would last the rest of my life
       | for a reasonable price. He insists I don't need something that
       | will last that long and I am just resistant to change. I just
       | don't want to waste my money on garbage pressboard I am going to
       | need to replace.
        
         | tcgv wrote:
         | > The mess is stressing me out.
         | 
         | > I just don't want to waste my money on garbage pressboard I
         | am going to need to replace.
         | 
         | If I may propose an alternative, you could buy the cheapest
         | bookshelf you can find just to have your office organized while
         | you search for a quality one to last decades or centuries :)
         | 
         | Or if you have the time and interest you could even make a
         | makeshift bookshelf instead. There are lots of tutorials on
         | youtube for this.
        
         | ethbr1 wrote:
         | There's the famous Adam Savage quip about "Buy cheap, then if
         | you use it re-buy quality."
         | 
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=usB6jqa4Yt4&t=24s
         | 
         | Which I guess in your case boils down to...
         | 
         | Would you rather not have bookcases while you're searching for
         | the perfect one?
         | 
         | Or would you rather have bookcases you aren't thrilled about,
         | while you decide/look for more quality ones?
         | 
         | I'd hazard from the limited information, it might make sense to
         | find the cheapest thing you can't push over, ASAP. Rip the
         | band-aid off.
        
         | foobarian wrote:
         | My solution was to give up and DIY. I wouldn't dare attempt
         | anything more complicated but a bookcase is among the simplest
         | projects to take on.
         | 
         | The plan B which we used for some things in the house was a
         | custom build. (Not meaning to shill or anything but they did a
         | fantastic job and in your shoes I would explore their
         | bookcases: https://www.dutchcrafters.com/Amish-
         | Bookcases/cat/146). The prices are up there but I figure are
         | about the same inflation-adjusted as what my grandpa would have
         | paid 80 years ago.
        
           | bhollander823 wrote:
           | +1 to solid wood Amish furniture
           | 
           | I've ordered a few pieces from Hedge House Furniture
           | (https://hedgehousefurniture.com/collections/storage) and am
           | very satisfied. They aren't cheap but they've also been able
           | to customize the dimensions and their designs are more to my
           | taste.
        
         | maximinus_thrax wrote:
         | > He insists I don't need something that will last that long
         | and I am just resistant to change
         | 
         | This is a bit of a red flag. Was this during a therapy session?
         | They shouldn't be giving this type of advice, not to mention
         | 'insisting' on it.
        
           | Tagbert wrote:
           | This is second hand commentary. We don't know what the
           | therapist actually said, just how the poster is representing
           | it, just that the poster interprets it as 'insisting'.
        
         | orev wrote:
         | Even if you know that something is objectively better, if the
         | majority of the market doesn't agree, you're going to find
         | yourself spending lots of time and energy going against
         | everyone else. At a certain point you just need to accept that
         | that's how things are and go with the flow, or take it upon
         | yourself to really "fix" things, which will probably mean
         | taking it on as a full time job or hobby.
         | 
         | So in this case, you can get a commercial bookcase that is
         | probably good enough to last quite a while (and be able to
         | spend a lot of time with your new child), or spend a lot of
         | time on the garage learning woodworking so you can build a
         | "real" one.
        
           | bcrosby95 wrote:
           | Or wait until the new child is older, and spend a lot of time
           | building a new bookshelf with them.
        
         | bobsmooth wrote:
         | I still use the ikea dresser and bookshelf I had in high
         | school.
        
         | cmckn wrote:
         | Bookshelves are pretty low-traffic, so I don't see why an Ikea
         | one wouldn't last as long as you needed it to. I think you'll
         | probably get tired of the look of it before the structure fails
         | in any meaningful way.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | I would tell my therapist I find it odd that they're voicing
         | their opinions rather than letting me arrive at conclusions on
         | my own.
        
         | MerelyMortal wrote:
         | It sounds like your therapist is letting their personal
         | opinions into your session. I'm not an expert, but that sounds
         | like a professional no-no.
        
           | swagasaurus-rex wrote:
           | ... If there is no alternative, maybe the therapist is
           | correct
        
             | MerelyMortal wrote:
             | Perhaps, but (again, not an expert), I think the therapist
             | should be asking questions (Socratic Method) to get the
             | patient to come to that conclusion themselves.
        
           | tome wrote:
           | I wonder if commenters on Psych News question the
           | professional judgement of IT workers based on second hand
           | reports of their behavior.
        
           | geodel wrote:
           | Agree. In my experience Furniture therapists are too
           | opinionated nowadays.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | Is it really worth stressing yourself out over buying a hold-
           | over bookshelf until you can find yourself a better one?
           | 
           | If you've got money for a therapist for this type of issue -
           | it probably isn't.
           | 
           | You can get a custom-made bookshelf from Amish country for
           | the cost of less than 5 therapy sessions.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | A large part of therapy can be pointing out cognitive
           | distortions.
           | 
           | The idea that you need a bookshelf to last you for the rest
           | of your life is actually a pretty reasonable thing for a
           | therapist to question.
           | 
           | People come into therapy with a lot of strongly held ideas
           | that wind up negatively impacting their relationships and
           | lives. E.g. winding up in fights with your spouse because you
           | insist on a bookshelf to last a lifetime, while they just
           | want to get something reasonably priced and move on from the
           | issue.
           | 
           | So trying to figure out where the desire comes from for an
           | object that lasts a lifetime is actually a pretty reasonable
           | therapeutic path of exploration. It's the old serenity prayer
           | -- "the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the
           | courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know
           | the difference".
           | 
           | There might be a lot of wisdom here in deciding that
           | reasonably-priced bookshelves don't last a lifetime anymore,
           | that that's not something you can change or want to spend
           | time and effort on changing, and deciding you can finally be
           | OK with that. To just make the choice to either buy a cheap
           | one that doesn't last or an "overly expensive one" that does,
           | accept it, and move on.
        
           | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
           | To me it sounds like someone who wants internet strangers to
           | agree with them in opposition to their therapist. Not knowing
           | any of the other details that's as far as I'm willing to go
           | with the assuming.
        
         | suoduandao3 wrote:
         | I'd bet you can get a local handyman to make a bookshelf out of
         | boards and screws if you're concerned about quality. But of
         | course, wood isn't going to cost today what it cost when you
         | were born.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | I have been furnishing with IKEA (and Target and Home Depot and
         | Costco) furniture for 20+ years, and still use dressers and
         | coffee tables and bunk beds from back then, including the use
         | by 2 toddlers. I even moved it across the country.
         | 
         | Maybe the melamine surface chips or scratches, but a little
         | touch up marker makes it pretty unnoticeable, plus I do not
         | care. Plus it was $20 to $200, so I can just replace it if it
         | was damaged.
         | 
         | I would much rather spend the money saved on vacations and
         | whatnot, I get no utility from a heavier table (in casual
         | household use).
        
           | geodel wrote:
           | Don't you care that your table could be found along with
           | this[1]
           | 
           | 1. https://www.10000yearclock.net/learnmore.html
        
         | ForRealsies wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | geodel wrote:
       | Further, I read somewhere even solid wood available is no longer
       | as good today as 50 years ago.
        
         | Arrath wrote:
         | Indeed not. Going to the building supply store with my dad
         | (former logger, from a family of loggers) was maddening as he
         | flipped through the lumber bin to try to find relatively
         | straight and knot-free boards, akin to those he was used to in
         | 'the old days'.
        
         | atty wrote:
         | Is this something that would cause a noticeable difference in
         | quality, or more of an academic one?
        
           | jaclaz wrote:
           | There are two aspects of the "difference":
           | 
           | 1) The timber that was once a locally (or nearby) grown tree
           | might nowadays be - while the same or very similar species -
           | originating from some other country (with different
           | climate/humidity/etc.) and thus be different at a structural
           | level.
           | 
           | 2) The timber was once seasoned over several months or even
           | years time (again locally), while most nowadays is
           | artificially seasoned very quickly (usually in a kiln or
           | autoclave for a few days)
           | 
           | While you cannot do much for #1, except of course choosing
           | the best batch you can find, the #2 (which is actually what
           | makes the larger differences in stability and also strength
           | over time) can sometimes be avoided by buying the wood before
           | it is seasoned and season it yourself naturally (of course
           | you need the space and time needed, for furniture or making
           | of windows/doors seasoning for a couple of years is not
           | uncommon).
           | 
           | The difference between artificially seasoned wood and
           | naturally seasoned is essentially that the latter is more
           | "stable", i.e. it will tend to crack and/or bend/deform much
           | less.
        
             | atty wrote:
             | Awesome, thank you for the info!
             | 
             | Edit: not awesome that wood is lower quality of course, the
             | awesome was for the explanation.
        
         | MerelyMortal wrote:
         | I have heard the same as commercial lumber today is harvested
         | from fast growth trees.
        
       | ajford wrote:
       | I feel like so many posts that look down on flat-packed/budget
       | furniture overlook the fact that so many people are in a position
       | where "buy it for life" isn't a desired feature.
       | 
       | We're seeing job markets where loyalty doesn't pay and the best
       | way to get a pay bump is to switch employers. We're seeing people
       | live check to check, and so many are renting as opposed to
       | buying.
       | 
       | If I don't have a permanent home, why do I want permanent
       | furniture? When I entered the workforce, my dad gave me a bunch
       | of BIFL-type solid furniture he purchased with my mom before she
       | passed. I ended up eventually selling it all off because it cost
       | me extra to have it moved into and out of any appt that wasn't on
       | ground floor. Often to the point where I could replace it with an
       | IKEA piece for less than the heavy item surcharge.
       | 
       | Or times where I moved into a smaller appt for budget reasons and
       | just didn't have space for some pieces. I once rented a storage
       | locker for a year just to keep furniture I couldn't fit but
       | didn't want to let go because it was solid wood and "had value".
       | 
       | I now use Ikea furniture for everything, and figure if I'm lucky
       | I'll eventually be able to own property/a house and then it'd
       | make sense to own something more durable.
        
       | doctorpangloss wrote:
       | Hmm. I'm pretty sure as long as people are willing to give away
       | vintage sofas on Facebook Marketplace because they don't know any
       | better, I'm not going to buy a $11,000 new designer sleeper from
       | DWR. It's not Ikea that's competing with the stuff designers want
       | to make.
        
       | angry_moose wrote:
       | We actually expected our West Elm sofa to be well built - it
       | wasn't cheap and their reputation wasn't complete garbage yet
       | when we purchased it. After about 18 months the whole thing
       | collapsed, just out of warranty believe it or not.
       | 
       | When I started taking it apart to see if it was fixable I found
       | that the entire damn thing was built out of stapled-together 1/2"
       | OSB (oriented strand board...garbage "plywood") and all of the
       | cuts had awful stress concentration corners which caused the
       | frame to pretty much disintegrate. Wasn't a real screw or nail
       | anywhere in the piece that I could find.
       | 
       | I spent a day rebuilding the frame with about $30 worth of
       | construction lumber (some 2x4s & 2x8s) and hanger brackets. It's
       | been perfect ever since.
       | 
       | Completely inexcusable that a $30 aftermarket fix is all it took
       | to dramatically improve an $1800 sofa.
       | 
       | Edit: I found a few images of the damage and a couple of the
       | replacement supports I added. There was a lot more, but at the
       | end of the day I was tired and didn't take a ton of pictures
       | https://imgur.com/a/bqlLgW3
        
         | segmondy wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. Never thought of doing this, but definitely
         | will be doing it next time a sofa falls apart.
        
         | LastTrain wrote:
         | That is pretty cheap for a sofa. Here is what spending a
         | similar amount in 1970 would have gotten you:
         | 
         | https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ShowCatalogPage/1970-Sea...
         | 
         | That would have been regarded a a cheap sofa at the time, and
         | would have set you back $379. Average salary now vs then is 5x
         | so equivalent price would be $1895. Your sofa probably looks
         | nicer but the Sears one has a proper hardwood frame.
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | http://web.archive.org/web/20230905155847/https://www.washin...
       | 
       | https://archive.ph/X7ZLf
        
       | VirusNewbie wrote:
       | I found a local company that made me a 96'' solid wood table from
       | reclaimed wood planks (no veneer). Cost me like $1600, felt like
       | a pretty good deal.
        
       | j7ake wrote:
       | At ikeas price point you don't even need to move the fueniture,
       | just give it away and buy the exact same one in the new location.
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | I didn't spend $1000 on a couch set to just get rid of it if I
         | move in a year or two though.
         | 
         | I realize some folks on HN have lots of disposable income,
         | however even for higher earners its a waste of money at that
         | point, I don't feel like it should be accepted practice to
         | throw out furniture out with every move, particularly if you
         | move a few times in a short time span.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I spent $1,100 on an IKEA couch and it has moved 3 places
           | with me over the last ~9 years.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Assuming that you're able to sell it for something ($400?),
           | it can make more sense to do that rather than deal with
           | loading, unloading and the moving expense.
        
         | williamsmj wrote:
         | I bought the same Ikea coffee table three times in three
         | countries (https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/lack-coffee-table-
         | black-brown-0...).
        
       | nemo44x wrote:
       | You can get great furniture today that is made from stain grade
       | hardwood and uses high quality fabrics. But it's expensive. It
       | always has been. Quality, heirloom furniture was never the domain
       | of regular people. It's through mass production and engineered
       | materials everyone has couches, tables, chairs, shelves,
       | dressers, etc.
       | 
       | You want nice counter height chairs made of five hardwood and
       | leather and joint work instead of screws? You're looking at
       | $1000/chair at the bottom and can go way up from there. Most
       | people aren't spending $4k on chairs for a kitchen island. This
       | is where the cheaper mid market comes in where you get 4 chairs
       | for $1k and they're fine. Just not jointed or if the better wood
       | or nicer seat, etc.
        
       | williamsmj wrote:
       | I just moved cross-country in the US and my mover specifically
       | carved out particle board Ikea furniture as "best effort", i.e.
       | they will do their best to make sure it arrives in one piece, but
       | they are not responsible for damages, and we should manage
       | expectations accordingly.
        
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