[HN Gopher] Amiga Samplers: Budget dance music in 1990
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Amiga Samplers: Budget dance music in 1990
        
       Author : bane
       Score  : 224 points
       Date   : 2023-09-04 02:48 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | bane wrote:
       | Something kind of fun about the scene at the time, since it was
       | mostly just kids messing around on their computers, is there are
       | a fair number of pretty interesting remixes of popular songs from
       | the time.
       | 
       | Jabdah - by Lizardking -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | Never Ending Story - Lizardking -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | Take on Me - a bunch of versions -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=search&query=take+o...
       | 
       | Groove is in the Heart - anchoret.sae -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | Like a Virgin - sie -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | Enjoy the Silence - 4-mat -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | Some other stuff I liked from that time (often post-MOD file XM,
       | S3M, or IT style tracked music)
       | 
       | Lizardking (most of his stuff is amazing and he's credited with
       | inventing a genre or music really only heard in trackers called
       | "doskpop") -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_artist_modules...
       | 
       | Dr. Awesome -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_artist_modules...
       | 
       | I recommend 12th Warrior -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | elblanco (apparently still active?) -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_artist_modules...
       | 
       | Recommend "Living, again and again" -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&qu...
       | 
       | Necros -
       | https://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_artist_modules...
        
       | janesconference wrote:
       | Long shot, but I remember a friend playing a beautiful digital
       | tune made with a tracker from an Amiga demo. I remember the
       | chorus had a sampled voice saying something like "Amphora" (which
       | was probably the name of the demo authors' group). I've searched
       | the internet far and wide but I never found it again. Does anyone
       | remember it?
        
         | ilkke wrote:
         | Do you recall what genre the tune was? Give us bit more to work
         | with :)
        
           | janesconference wrote:
           | I remember it was hard-core techno with heavy basses and
           | short spoken vocals intermixed. Very good quality, more on
           | the "real music production" than on the "videogame track"
           | side of things. Year might have been roughly 1993 to 1996
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | prmoustache wrote:
       | Some other interesting amiga music related stuff, made today:
       | 
       | A bit more hardware with an Amiga 1000:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV1McEtejxo
       | 
       | These guys DJing mods with amigas:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9Ks6OA3iU
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvP08ezbicU
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olHntLXMkCY
        
       | johnnyworker wrote:
       | Show me your favorite modern 4 channel modules that blow your
       | mind! Other than just about anything by h0ffmann, here's a fav of
       | mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFor3PDA8EI
        
         | meindnoch wrote:
         | Jester - Stardust Memories
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLMhBE99byM
        
           | mzerod wrote:
           | Jester - Stardust Otamatonies
           | https://youtu.be/dfFVxWEwhI0?si=r-ZtYmgF1ADp0k8e
        
           | johnnyworker wrote:
           | Aaaaahhh, Jester. Barely understanding English but feeling
           | that "fuck reputation!" so much, even as a little kid.
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew3Jd87Sg6c
        
       | dharma1 wrote:
       | Love trackers! A lot of my friends got their start in music in
       | the mod scene - was a magical time of free original music making
       | and sharing on BBSs/early internet. It's amazing what people
       | created with 4 channels and 8 bit samples on amigas (and a couple
       | of years later with more channels and 16bits on PCs and cheap
       | sound cards)
       | 
       | -dharma/mono211
        
       | dm319 wrote:
       | I like to use XMP on linux to listen to folders of MODS. They are
       | easy to get hold of these days!
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | The Amiga MOD sound is quite distinctive because it uses very
       | low-res instrument samples (typically 8-bit, 8 kHz) played back
       | at different sample rates.
       | 
       | Only four channels were available, so each of those crunchy
       | samples gets to be heard in the mix too.
       | 
       | It was amazing at the time and still sounds unique in its way.
       | 
       | A few PC games used Amiga MOD soundtracks too. Star Control II
       | (1992) comes to mind because it was a very early example of
       | Internet crowdsourcing: the music was created by MOD composers
       | around the world.
        
         | sillywalk wrote:
         | I believe that Crusader: No Remorse and No Regret used MODs for
         | music.
        
         | kreddor wrote:
         | I remember several PC games with "amiga music". Settlers (the
         | original), SuperFrog, Pinball Fantasies, and so on. Most likely
         | because they were amiga ports. They didn't necessarily use the
         | MOD format all of them, but still. I remember ripping the music
         | from SuperFrog and Settlers at least.
        
           | jl6 wrote:
           | A little later, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, and Deus Ex all
           | used tracker music, to enduring acclaim.
        
             | badpun wrote:
             | Interesting that UT decided not to just play back an MP3,
             | as that would be too heavy on CPU's time budget, and
             | settled on mods instead. IIRC, Quake's music (by Trent
             | Reznor) was just played back from the game's CD, which
             | means that most people never got to experience it (as most
             | people played the pirated copy of the game, without the
             | audio CD tracks).
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | I think Lemmings used MODs too (or at least the music was
         | easily converted to MOD format, because there are MODs of the
         | soundtrack available which sound exactly the same as the in-
         | game music) - https://www.camanis.net/lemmings/music.php.
         | Anyway, the original soundtrackers were very much built around
         | the Amiga sound hardware's capabilities, which was pretty good
         | for the time - there was a custom chip that could play 4
         | channels of 8-bit samples where you only had to supply the
         | memory offset, the frequency, volume etc. and then the actual
         | playing and mixing of the channels would be done automatically.
         | So this was of course ideal for game music, because it used
         | very little CPU time. Later trackers were able to offer up to 8
         | channels by mixing 2 channels into 1 hardware channel (the
         | first of them being OctaMED -
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OctaMED), but these couldn't be
         | used in games on the original Amiga.
        
           | vintermann wrote:
           | Pretty sure you could use octaMED music in games as long as
           | they had a little driver?
           | 
           | I know that games often used custom drivers for software
           | mixing to get more channels. The Turrican games (which have
           | really outrageously good music) use a 7-channel system with
           | four of the software channels being mixed into one of the
           | hardware channels.
           | 
           | It was probably a good trade-off to only split one or two of
           | the channels, since you might not need full 8-bit sample
           | resolution for all instruments.
           | 
           | I'm pretty sure Jason Page's driver for the Graftgold games
           | did something similar.
        
             | mnw21cam wrote:
             | The key point is that when using four tracks, the CPU
             | basically just needed to tell the hardware where in memory
             | a sample was, what frequency to play it at, and how long to
             | go for, and then the hardware would just play it over DMA
             | with no CPU time needed. That's eminently compatible with
             | simultaneously running a game that requires about as much
             | CPU power as the system has available.
             | 
             | Once you start going in to more than four channels, you
             | suddenly start needing to do the mixing in the CPU instead.
             | I remember my original Amiga 500 was capable of only doing
             | 7 channels using OctaMED (six mixed into three, and one
             | native), so the CPU load of mixing was significant. That is
             | why it generally wasn't possible to use more than four
             | channels in games.
             | 
             | Of course, once a bit more CPU power was available, doing
             | the mixing in the CPU became no longer a problem.
             | 
             | One MP3 player used a neat trick for playing sound at
             | better than 8-bit resolution. It would play the more
             | significant bits one one channel, then set the volume of
             | another channel (on the same side) lower and play the least
             | significant bits on that channel, and the hardware would
             | keep them in absolute lock-step. (And obviously do that
             | twice using all four channels for stereo output.)
        
           | selcuka wrote:
           | > I think Lemmings used MODs too
           | 
           | Lemmings was originally published for Amiga, so that decision
           | makes sense.
        
           | amiga386 wrote:
           | Lemmings and its expansion packs used a custom format called
           | "SoundPlayer", written by Scott Johnson of DMA Design. I
           | believe the name comes from a string seen inside the replayer
           | code.
           | 
           | * The music as found on Amiga Lemmings disks:
           | https://www.exotica.org.uk/wiki/SoundPlayer
           | 
           | * Source of replayer code:
           | http://wt.exotica.org.uk/players.html
           | 
           | Lemmings 2 and the All New World of Lemmings used MED by
           | Teijo Kinnunen, as did most later DMA Design titles (Walker,
           | Hired Guns)
           | 
           | The port of Lemmings to the Acorn Archimedes actually used a
           | MOD file, presumably because Protracker is _not_ native to
           | the Acorn, but it was a popular format at the time and
           | several people had written replayers for the Acorn
           | 
           | While you say "the music was easily converted"... that's not
           | always true. The SoundPlayer format, based on reading its
           | replayer code, supports 38 sound samples. Protracker supports
           | 31 samples at most. Had the Lemmings music _used_ 38 samples,
           | converting to Protracker would've come undone.
           | 
           | Similarly, while MED can be converted to Protracker,
           | Protracker doesn't support all MED's commands, timings,
           | synthetic instruments, and it actually does sound different
           | and worse... provided the music made any use of those extra
           | capabilities.
           | 
           | Quite a few games did have CPU-intensive mixing for multiple
           | sound channels, but only as title-screen music, not in-game.
           | Famously there is TFMX 7V format used by Chris Huelsbeck
           | (Turrican 2, Turrican 3, Apidya, Metal Law) but also Hippel
           | 7V used by Jochen Hippel (Amberstar, Ghost Battle, Lethal
           | Xcess) and Oktalyzer. Furthermore, Super Stardust used the
           | increased CPU capabilities of the A1200/A4000 to have its
           | title music in ScreamTracker 3 (S3M) format.
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | Thanks for the details, and also for the link! I was an
             | Amiga owner/fan in the 1990s, but I'm not that into
             | retrocomputing, so my info is a bit incomplete. Looks like
             | there was a lot of in-house/not widely available software
             | back in the day which was "kind of like SoundTracker, but
             | not quite" - for instance I looked up another old favourite
             | of mine (Lionheart) and found out that the music was
             | composed with a tool called "Sonic Arranger" - the
             | screenshots look familiar, but it looks like it also
             | supported "synthesized" instruments, not only samples.
        
           | porbelm wrote:
           | Cannon Fodder on PC used the same MODs as the Amiga version
           | for its music. Dr. Awesome from the scene was Team 17's in-
           | house composer for ages. Epic Pinball also used some kind of
           | module format. I think maybe Scream Tracker 3, seeming to
           | remember FastTracker 2 .xm wasn't out yet? But it's not a
           | reliable memory these days...
           | 
           | edit: Unreal Tournament DEFINITELY used some 8-or-more
           | channel module format as well
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | That's why I wrote "on the _original_ Amiga " - although
             | you could probably make it work if you were willing to
             | sacrifice a bit more of those precious CPU cycles for the
             | audio. On 32 bit PCs, especially those powerful enough to
             | run a 3D game, that wasn't a problem of course...
        
       | amiga386 wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Created_Disco
       | 
       | > I Created Disco is the debut studio album by Scottish musician
       | Calvin Harris
       | 
       | > All recording and producing for the album took place on an
       | Amiga computer with OctaMED
       | 
       | https://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/interview-calvin-harris...
        
         | jahnu wrote:
         | OctaMED was mind blowing. So many hours of joy spent on that.
        
           | 123pie123 wrote:
           | going from 4 channels to 8 blew my mind
           | 
           | I had a Roland D10 that I used with octomed (using MIDI) and
           | the D10 did most of the work, with samples from the Amiga
           | adding the icing
           | 
           | love those days
        
       | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
       | Polyend's hardware tracker, called Tracker, is on sale right now.
       | 
       | Milky Tracker, Renoise, and Sun Vox are great software to get
       | started with trackers on your PC
        
         | keyle wrote:
         | Yeah Renoise is still the Go To tracker on windows/mac today,
         | for its general ease of use and versatility.
        
           | awuji wrote:
           | And linux. They provide a linux version and it runs great on
           | linux
        
         | ilkke wrote:
         | If we're talking hardware trackers, def also worth mentioning
         | the Dirtywave M8
        
         | kubov wrote:
         | Groovin in G has some excellent Renoise tutorials and just
         | started a new series:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwfnvs5pIcM
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | Knew this would be ctrix before clicking on the link. Awesome
       | dude.
        
       | joehogans wrote:
       | Awesome, here an open source complete tracker to play with. It's
       | fully browser optimized.
       | 
       | https://www.stef.be/bassoontracker/
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Wow, it has a lot of tracks to load.
         | 
         | Some of these Amiga tracks are so damn upbeat. Love it.
        
         | outofpaper wrote:
         | N if you are looking for mods there's always the amazing
         | modarchive.
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20230903170856/https://modarchiv...
         | 
         | I'm providing the live as a webarchive cache as modarchive.org
         | is on a sight budget and I don't know if they can handle a ton
         | of traffic. Amazing site for spelunking through both vintage
         | and nostalgic tracks.
        
           | mnw21cam wrote:
           | There's also Aminet:
           | 
           | https://aminet.net/tree?path=mods
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Works great on the phone as well.
        
         | blaerk wrote:
         | If anyone wants to run protracker like back in the day but on
         | current hardware, there's this neat clone
         | https://github.com/8bitbubsy/pt2-clone
        
           | Annatar wrote:
           | [dead]
        
       | chaosprint wrote:
       | Trackers are amazing and they still live on, for example,
       | https://dirtywave.com/products/m8-tracker
       | 
       | although I have no background on playing trackers, I find my
       | philosophy of designing music language very close to the idea of
       | trackers (https://glicol.org). and it also occurred to me: maybe
       | in the future we would say Algorave is the budget dance music in
       | 2020?
       | 
       | This was my Algorave performance during the pandemic (I was
       | actually tested positive 3 days before the performance
       | streaming):
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/atoTujbQdwI?si=qVWvJrDZ0rupPIqf&t=260
        
         | porkbeer wrote:
         | A good modern tracker is Renoise. It has modern plugin support,
         | runs on most OSs and is still being developed.
        
       | keyle wrote:
       | Note that they're still used today.
       | 
       | if you want to keep going down the youtube rabbit hole...
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDn7ZDcx9w0
        
         | jamal-kumar wrote:
         | Probably the biggest reasons I think they still get used today:
         | 
         | - Really good for breakbeat chopping as they essentially put
         | samples front and centre with the tools to do that. If you
         | check out renoise the first tutorials are about that, but we're
         | talking about octamed etc here...
         | 
         | - I hear a lot of people on music production chat seeking that
         | 'bitcrushed' sampling sound and while you can definitely
         | emulate it using other stuff it's definitely not the same as
         | the entire damn song getting bitcrushed into an 8-bit .MOD file
         | (Or whatever it is you're playing through it - perhaps it's
         | controlling some crisp sounding midi synths and you're good
         | with say bitcrushed vocals and percussion) and I think that has
         | some appeal
         | 
         | - they look cool
         | 
         | I follow a few of these artists, @deatonchrisanthony on
         | instagram has been posting some fun videos
        
           | EmilyHughes wrote:
           | Another big reason is that the limitations actually make you
           | more creative. I learned producing EDM in the FL Studio era
           | and in a sense it's a godsend you don't have to buy all that
           | expensive hardware. On the other hand modern DAWs give you so
           | much freedom its somewhat exhausting. The entry level to
           | produce technical genres like DnB are extremely high
           | nowadays.
        
             | spacemadness wrote:
             | This is it right here. Limitations and being able to wrap
             | your head around every piece of the tool you're using. It's
             | so easy to get lost in tools like Ableton. They can put you
             | in a headspace that is always fiddling and not actually
             | focused on making music. I think modular gear does this to
             | people too. My friends that go down the modular rabbit hole
             | sometimes don't realize they haven't made anything but
             | bloops with their 10,000+ modular. And not in an awesome
             | Autechre/Richard Devine way that has structure and a goal.
        
         | kubov wrote:
         | And there is a niche of people using set of two Amigas as dj
         | decks and mixing tracker tunes between them. I absolutely love
         | it.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvP08ezbicU
        
       | G3rn0ti wrote:
       | "H0ffman" is also a respectable artist still doing live gigs w/
       | vintage hardware:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/zVF-GbGHxA8?t=4046
       | 
       | His tunes appear in many "Focus Design" demos.
        
         | dm319 wrote:
         | I've seen him live. Fantastic experience.
         | 
         | EDIT: The last track his him.
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | I remember I had Octamed - 8 tracks! Bliss.
        
       | Hackbraten wrote:
       | Recommendation for an excellent documentary by Ahoy on trackers:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roBkg-iPrbw
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ant6n wrote:
       | Also shout-out to Retro Ahoy's awesome documentary on trackers,
       | which covers the amiga quite a bit as well:
       | https://youtu.be/roBkg-iPrbw
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | Here is a legendary modfile which we still listen to in 2023
       | [0][1]
       | 
       | [0], 1995 Raver's Megamix by Dax,
       | http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&que...
       | 
       | [1], Youtube render, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtI-N0SDfUw
        
         | johnnyworker wrote:
         | I'll add these two classics:
         | 
         | Jesus On E's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MjNsNW8DvM
         | 
         | State of The Art https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89wq5EoXy-0
        
           | johnnyworker wrote:
           | Oh, and how could I forget Technological Death!
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-hUJ-v0FLE
           | 
           | In hindsight it's amazing to me how many of these demos
           | little me saw the year they came out, just via swapping with
           | other little kids, in this little town with 50k residents in
           | Germany. The good stuff spread like wildfire, and we watched
           | it with curtains drawn and volume maxed.
           | 
           | Then one day the local big honcho warez supplier (he was 13,
           | so basically an adult to us 10-11 year olds) forgot his tool
           | disk with all sorts of stuff on it at my home, I discovered
           | ProTracker and music ripping tools on it, and have never been
           | the same.
        
           | unixhero wrote:
           | Revsision 2019 Amiga Demo Compo, which is your favourite?
           | 
           | [0], https://youtu.be/zwoyfH7TgEQ?si=WMTwvh4QliFHhE42
        
             | johnnyworker wrote:
             | Musically, none of these are quite my cup of tea.. so
             | instead of forcing myself to pick one regardless, here's my
             | favorite ch00n from Revision 2020 :)
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyxVKZKwBmU
             | 
             | I'm just a sucker for sync, hah. 2019 was an absolutely
             | stellar year for Amiga demos, no doubt! But in my heart of
             | hearts, I like simple things the most.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | block_dagger wrote:
       | Loved making S3M mods in the early 90's, fun and educational for
       | a kid interested in making music.
        
         | geon wrote:
         | I had so much fun replacing all the samples of my favorite
         | mods.
        
         | vnorilo wrote:
         | What's great about tracker music is that it's in source format,
         | readable, editable and remixable as if you were the original
         | author.
         | 
         | Open source music! Great for learning.
        
           | _joel wrote:
           | Object based audio... but 30 years earlier.
        
           | rob74 wrote:
           | Yeah, that was a nice side effect - but only a side effect.
           | The real reason why the music was released in this format was
           | space saving. If you would have wanted to release a song with
           | all the tracks already mixed together, you would have had to
           | store it as an uncompressed or losslessly compressed
           | "waveform" file, and a very modest song would already have
           | filled up an Amiga 880 KB floppy disk all by itself. Contrast
           | this to Lemmings, which had not only ~10 songs, but also the
           | sound effects, graphics, game code and 120 levels (although
           | some levels were 100% identical to earlier levels, just with
           | a tougher distribution of Lemmings skills and/or higher quota
           | of Lemmings to save) on 2 floppies...
        
       | boboche wrote:
       | Had a "Perfect Sound" and audio master 3. Nothing beats that
       | first burp recording & playback at different speeds when you are
       | 12 :)
       | 
       | Med and Octamed were my favorite tracking tools, Octamed still
       | exists today on windows (never tried it but here :
       | https://archive.org/details/med-soundstudio-v2.1
       | 
       | Amiga version https://archive.org/details/octa-med-v-5.00c
        
       | kristopolous wrote:
       | He didn't point out but the music videos that he showed at the
       | very beginning were also probably made on the Amiga using
       | VideoToaster
       | 
       | Here's a promo video from the time that also uses tracker made
       | background music bringing it full circle
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3keLuj9OI
       | 
       | It's kind of a shame how commodore disappeared. A humble 1980s
       | home computer made all that
        
         | Annatar wrote:
         | [dead]
        
       | jahnu wrote:
       | I'll never enjoy computing again as much as I did as a teenager
       | with an Amiga 500, a CD ROM with CDs full of mod files and Fred
       | Fish disks, and my trusty 8 bit sampler. Sampling and making
       | extended mixes of favourite rave tunes from the era, recording
       | them to tape and playing them on a Walkman to friends at school
       | who had no idea computers could do such things!
       | 
       | Making 15 minute mashups of this and dancing like loons to it in
       | the break room. Thanks, Amiga!
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yefUXmB9n6c
       | 
       | I can credit those years to a love of programming and now being a
       | developer of audio FX plugins!
        
         | daneel_w wrote:
         | _> "I'll never enjoy computing again as much as I did as a
         | teenager with an Amiga 500 ..."_
         | 
         | Same. It really was magic exploration.
        
         | boffinAudio wrote:
         | Likewise! What sort of plugins are you making?
        
           | jahnu wrote:
           | Two of us are making spectral fx. Wouldn't really have been
           | possible on a 68000 :)
           | 
           | https://gs-dsp.com/
           | 
           | Note we offer a completely free, midi modulation plugin (MMM)
           | too there.
           | 
           | Also available on iOS where it's especially super useful.
           | 
           | Are you in Vienna too!?
        
             | _joel wrote:
             | Nice clean looking plugins, will give them a try tonight
        
               | jahnu wrote:
               | Thank you! Hope you enjoy them. And if you have any
               | questions that aren't answered on the site or videos just
               | reach out. We love talking to the folks using our stuff.
        
             | boffinAudio wrote:
             | Nice! Just wondering if you considered using JUCE?
        
               | epcoa wrote:
               | The plugins are built with juce v6
        
               | jahnu wrote:
               | Correct. Although next update will be 7, not that it
               | makes much difference. We only really use the plugin
               | format abstraction and a little of the GUI stuff. Our
               | audio path is all our own algorithms. JUCE audio stuff
               | isn't really it's strong point. Although plenty good
               | enough for many applications.
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | Yes, the amiga was so good for it's time.
         | 
         | It is crazy how commodore f*ked up.
        
       | zfxfr wrote:
       | if you want to easily get started with tracker on your PC
       | (windows) there is the free Modplug Tracker !
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-04 23:02 UTC)