[HN Gopher] Low-latitude oceans have become greener in the past ...
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       Low-latitude oceans have become greener in the past 20 years: study
        
       Author : myshpa
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2023-09-03 20:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (phys.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
        
       | wilg wrote:
       | Is lightening the albedo of the sea helping reflect light and
       | reducing global warming? I know this is a thing with, for
       | example, forests which absorb more heat versus desert.
        
       | thechao wrote:
       | Hah! What if Homer's "wine-dark seas" really were wine-dark!?
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Maybe it's more indicative of the wine color at the time than
         | the sea color. ;)
        
           | twoodfin wrote:
           | My guess is that it's about drawing contrast with the
           | crystal-blue seas near the Greek shore.
           | 
           | The difference between the Mediterranean as experienced along
           | the shoals of a beach vs. out among the waves is night and
           | day.
           | 
           | Not unlike the difference between a glass of water and a
           | glass of (surely murky in the era) wine.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Hackernews told me it's because the Greeks couldn't see the
           | color blue -- and neither could anyone else until we invented
           | a word for it.
        
             | sidlls wrote:
             | That's physically impossible. The color receptors in our
             | eyes are unlikely to have spontaneously gained the ability
             | to process blue wavelength light only after a word was
             | invented for it. More likely is that people simply didn't
             | use a separate word to distinguish colors of wavelengths
             | between green and violet.
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | There are many languages where there is a single word for
               | green and blue, but Greek was not one of those languages.
               | 
               | Since the earliest texts, Greek had distinct words for
               | blue and green, even if many modern authors have confused
               | them, because they did not compare enough texts to be
               | able to understand the correspondences between words and
               | colors.
               | 
               | Ancient Greek was not uniform, there were many dialects,
               | so there are many authors who use different words for
               | colors.
               | 
               | Blue was frequently described as the color of the pigment
               | ultramarine blue or more rarely as the color of the sky.
               | For green there were more words, some of whom have
               | uncertain meaning, like "chloros", which is used in many
               | modern terms for green, but which might have meant
               | something else in Greek. The words whose meaning is
               | certain describe green as the color of grass or as the
               | color of emeralds or as the color of leek.
        
               | Tenoke wrote:
               | While likely still wrong, Sapir-worf doesn't state that
               | you developed the receptors at the same time but rather
               | that things were processed/compressed/remembered
               | differently when/if there was a single word for e.g. blue
               | and purple.
               | 
               | It's closer (if we steelman a bit) to how if I think of
               | different shades of purple as just purple I might not
               | notice a difference between 2 objects while someone else
               | would immediately tell that one is lavender and the other
               | wisteria.
        
               | thechao wrote:
               | Your latter example (but with green) is a testable
               | hypothesis, with some weak support for being true! The
               | rest of S-W is popsci garbage.
        
               | ralferoo wrote:
               | Reminds me of this old image (can't find the original
               | link, but it's the same picture) that jokes about the
               | difference between men and women with names for colours:
               | 
               | https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/style
               | s/a...
               | 
               | Oh, and of course the xkcd follow-up:
               | https://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/03/color-survey-results/
        
               | bitwize wrote:
               | Fuchsia was named after a botanist named Leonhard Fuchs.
               | To remember its spelling I think of Fred Fuchs, aka Fred
               | Fucks from the AVGN videos, and then add -ia.
        
             | adrian_b wrote:
             | This is a myth generated by people with little knowledge of
             | chemistry and mineralogy, which prevented them to
             | understand the Greek words that they were reading.
             | 
             | Already in Homer, the Greek word for blue was frequently
             | used: "cuaneos", which means "the color of cuanos".
             | "Cuanos" is a word borrowed by the Greeks from Anatolia and
             | which initially designated the blue pigment now named
             | "ultramarine blue", which was imported from Afghanistan.
             | Later, the same word was also applied to other cheaper blue
             | pigments used as a substitute for the expensive ultramarine
             | blue, like azurite and the Egyptian blue.
             | 
             | English has the word "cyan", which is derived from the
             | Greek word for blue, but which is now erroneously used with
             | the meaning of blue-green. The Greeks and the Romans
             | described blue-green as the color of the beryls, or of
             | turquoise, or of the littoral sea. They never used
             | "cuaneos", i.e. "cyan", for blue-green.
             | 
             | Unfortunately there are many dictionaries with erroneous
             | explanations for Greek words referring to chemical
             | substances, minerals, animals or plants, because the
             | philologists who have worked at the dictionaries have not
             | consulted experts in the other sciences.
        
               | ano-ther wrote:
               | Yes. The flag of Greece also suggests some fondness for
               | blue (as does its architecture).
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Greece
        
             | tremon wrote:
             | I prefer this reading:
             | https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/sea/winelike-sea
             | 
             | > Rather than being ignorant of color, it seems that the
             | Greeks were less interested in and attentive to hue, or
             | tint, than they were to light. As late as the fourth
             | century BC, Plato named the four primary colors as white,
             | black, red, and bright, and in those cases where a Greek
             | writer lists colors "in order," they are arranged not by
             | the Newtonian colors of the rainbow [..] but from lightest
             | to darkest.
             | 
             | > The phrase "winelike," then, had little to do with color
             | but must have evoked some attribute of dark wine that would
             | resonate with an audience familiar with the sea [..] such
             | as the glint of surface light on impenetrable darkness,
             | like wine in a terracotta vessel.
             | 
             | (located at about 70% of the text. Ctrl-F "Plato" for the
             | impatient)
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | It would be nice to see some before-after pictures.
        
       | petermcneeley wrote:
       | >Generally, waters that are deep blue reflect very little life,
       | whereas greener waters indicate the presence of ecosystems, and
       | mainly phytoplankton--plant-like microbes that are abundant in
       | upper ocean and that contain the green pigment chlorophyll. The
       | pigment helps plankton harvest sunlight, which they use to
       | capture carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and convert it into
       | sugars.
       | 
       | This is a negative feedback on global warming?
        
         | wseqyrku wrote:
         | How did you come up with that connection?
        
           | petermcneeley wrote:
           | I was quoting from the reference article
           | https://phys.org/news/2023-07-ocean-consequence-climate.html
        
       | formvoltron wrote:
       | article says "we predicted it" but.. "we don't know what is
       | causing it... " eh?
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-03 23:01 UTC)