[HN Gopher] America has the world's safest air travel but sucks ...
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       America has the world's safest air travel but sucks so bad at car
       safety
        
       Author : kitkat_new
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2023-09-01 18:22 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.vox.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.vox.com)
        
       | black_13 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | FirmwareBurner wrote:
       | The article mentions badly designed roads and badly designed
       | cars/SUVs when comparing with the other countries, but nobody
       | talks about the standards regarding examinations and awarding
       | driver's licenses to people.
       | 
       | Maybe the countries with lower road fatalities have higher
       | examination standards and don't hand licenses out like flyers or
       | take your license away much easier the moment you mess up.
        
         | tstrimple wrote:
         | Iowa recently (2021) passed a bill allowing parents to teach
         | their children to drive instead of requiring an instructor led
         | class. I can't wait to see the results of allowing people who
         | cannot navigate a roundabout to be responsible for teaching
         | their children how to drive.
         | 
         | https://www.kcrg.com/2021/05/10/bill-redefining-drivers-educ...
        
           | kbelder wrote:
           | They used to require instructors? I didn't realize any states
           | did. Do any other states require them?
        
           | Nullabillity wrote:
           | This isn't a purely american thing, the swedish system
           | largely relies on a mix of instructor-led classes and parent-
           | led "homework". Although there are a bunch of safeguards in
           | place: the amateur instructor must have had a license in good
           | standing for N years, must have taken a special instructor's
           | course recently, and must have a license to instruct that
           | specific student.
           | 
           | It does end up with a bunch of weird legal quirks though (for
           | example: DUI laws apply to the amateur instructor but _not_
           | the student).
           | 
           | There are also separate car signs for professional vs amateur
           | instructors.
        
         | WeylandYutani wrote:
         | It's speed cameras. You'll learn to respect the speed limit
         | pretty quickly after your first fine for breaking it by a
         | whopping 7 kilometers- after correction.
        
           | TacticalCoder wrote:
           | > You'll learn to respect the speed limit pretty quickly
           | 
           | Many parts of the autobahn in Germany have no speed limits
           | and they're not seeing more accidents than, say, in France
           | (and France highways have limits at typically 130 km/h // 80
           | mph). There are definitely less deaths on german limitless
           | autobahns than on highways in the US.
           | 
           | FWIW if you keep only highway deaths in Europe and remove
           | friday/saturday nights and drunk drivers, there are hardly
           | any fatalities on highways.
           | 
           | Something something about kinetic energy and cars all driving
           | in the same direction.
           | 
           | Speed on highways really doesn't kill much. As simple as
           | that.
        
         | nvarsj wrote:
         | I wonder what the reason for this is. Anyone with a pulse can
         | get a US license. I've gotten a California license and a UK
         | one.
         | 
         | I passed the California one when I was 16 (which was an
         | absolute joke) and proceeded to get into multiple close call
         | collisions and got pulled over by the police with a threat of
         | reckless driving.
         | 
         | In comparison I failed my UK test twice with 20 years of
         | experience driving in the US. It was much tougher to pass. You
         | have to know the rules well and be comfortable driving the test
         | car.
        
           | mlyle wrote:
           | I just wanted to commend you on an unusual level of insight:
           | most people think they've always been an above-average
           | driver.
        
           | laurencerowe wrote:
           | Amusingly I almost failed my US test after passing the UK
           | test a couple of months earlier (I figured I should learn to
           | drive before moving to the US.)
           | 
           | In the UK I was taught to inch out slowly while making a turn
           | at a junction to see traffic while in the US you must stop
           | completely behind the line.
           | 
           | Fortunately as the US test only requires driving around the
           | block I didn't lose enough points to fail. The examiner said
           | it was pretty common for people who learnt to drive in other
           | countries.
        
           | CincinnatiMan wrote:
           | > I wonder what the reason for this is
           | 
           | Consider how difficult life is for people who aren't able to
           | get a driver's license. US society is not set up for non-
           | drivers.
        
         | cozzyd wrote:
         | American driver standards are a joke. My driving test didn't
         | even include parallel parking.
        
           | nitwit005 wrote:
           | If you have very limited time, it makes sense not to include
           | it. Failing at parallel parking usually just means a low
           | speed collision with another car.
        
           | digianarchist wrote:
           | I didn't even put my car in reverse for my California test.
           | 
           | I failed my UK test once at 17 and passed at 26 but only
           | just.
        
           | tstrimple wrote:
           | You can get away without knowing how to parallel park in
           | probably 99% (not being hyperbolic) of the country just fine.
           | Even when I lived in LA, you could easily find parking that
           | doesn't require parallel parking. I'm far more concerned
           | about the folks who can't deal with backing out of "normal"
           | parking spaces.
        
       | sdfghswe wrote:
       | > America has the world's safest air travel but sucks so bad at
       | car safety
       | 
       | Yes, because any moron is allowed to drive.
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | Everybody deserves freedom of movement regardless of how smart
         | you think they are.
        
           | sdfghswe wrote:
           | You're talking about what people should be allowed to do,
           | which is not what I'm talking about.
           | 
           | I'm explaining why the safety of driving vs flying are so
           | different. And the reason is that any moron is allowed to
           | drive.
        
           | throwaway128128 wrote:
           | At every driver's ed they teach you that driving is a
           | privilege, not a right.
           | 
           | You are free to take the bus or ride a bike if one is
           | incapable of driving safely. The rest of society isn't forced
           | to suffer.
        
             | Lammy wrote:
             | There are too many parts of the continent with zero bus
             | transit where distances between any two points make
             | bicycling infeasible. In those places the alternative to
             | driving is not traveling at all. Until those can be
             | equalized then yes I do consider driving a right even for
             | the people you look down upon.
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | So should everyone be allowed to fly whatever plane they
               | want in whatever airspace they want because there are
               | parts to the country where even cars aren't a viable
               | means of transportation?
        
               | Lammy wrote:
               | I'm obviously talking about populated places.
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | Yes, me too. There are towns in Alaska with no roads in
               | or out.
        
       | rufus_foreman wrote:
       | The chart in the article is deaths per capita. Deaths per mile
       | driven would be more relevant. Americans drive much more than
       | people in the other countries mentioned (https://internationalcom
       | parisons.org/environmental/transport...), a large part (but not
       | all) of the discrepancy is due to that.
        
       | cramjabsyn wrote:
       | Lacking rail networks in the US must play a role in putting more
       | people (and trucks) on the road and increasing severity of
       | crashes
        
         | patmorgan23 wrote:
         | That's funny you say that because the US has one of it not the
         | largest freight networks in the world
        
           | sdfghswe wrote:
           | It's funny that you mention freight, because that's
           | completely irrelevant for people traveling.
        
             | Lammy wrote:
             | You could not be more wrong. Research the history of of the
             | Class I railroads and they all had prestigious passenger
             | service that became too unprofitable to run thanks to
             | dwindling ridership and the cancelation of the USPS
             | contracts in 1964. Their rolling stock was turned over to
             | Amtrak at its formation in 1971.
        
               | ethanbond wrote:
               | Can you explain how this is relevant to modern traffic
               | fatality statistics?
        
               | Lammy wrote:
               | Today's main line rails are mostly in the same places
               | they were back when they hosted passenger service.
        
               | ethanbond wrote:
               | Which are now used for freight and instead people mostly
               | move in cars, which are prone to crashing
        
               | Clamchop wrote:
               | I'm not sure why historical relevance is being talked
               | about. Rail in the US failed to keep pace and has become
               | largely irrelevant despite appearing that it could stand
               | to benefit even more from modernized passenger rail
               | because of often large distances between popular
               | destinations.
               | 
               | It is pretty irrelevant for this discussion except as a
               | criticism of infrastructure.
        
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       (page generated 2023-09-01 23:02 UTC)