[HN Gopher] Can programming languages boost each other via instr...
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       Can programming languages boost each other via instruction tuning?
        
       Author : og_kalu
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2023-09-01 15:03 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | wcoenen wrote:
       | It was already known that training on code improves performance
       | on all reasoning tasks[1], so this is not really surprising.
       | 
       | [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.07128
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | air7 wrote:
       | Wow, this is the first contradiction to Betteridge's law that
       | I've encountered...
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
        
         | pmontra wrote:
         | Betteridge's Law can be trivially confuted. For example one
         | could make a blog post titled "Did the Sun Raise Yesterday?" I
         | don't dare trying the law with a headline like that about
         | tomorrow though.
        
         | lainga wrote:
         | Sort of. None of the programming languages mentioned in the
         | paper were actually boosted in any way, an LLM was.
        
       | cmdrk wrote:
       | is it the programming languages themselves, or the programmer
       | comments within the training sets that improve output?
        
         | sp332 wrote:
         | There are comments in the data, but 95% of the comments in the
         | HTML one seem to be variations of /*CSS styles go here*/.
        
       | pipo234 wrote:
       | > More surprisingly, we found that CodeM-HTML 7B trained on the
       | HTML corpus can improve Java by an absolute 15.24% pass@1.
       | 
       | (Tongue in cheek reaction:)
       | 
       | Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from
       | magic -- Arthur C. Clarke
        
         | xeckr wrote:
         | Compared to 17% when pre-trained on Python. Looks like the
         | debate on whether or not HTML is a programming language is
         | settled!
        
           | codetrotter wrote:
           | Was the HTML corpus it trained on only HTML and text, or was
           | there JS code in the HTML?
        
             | sp332 wrote:
             | There sure was. Here is a snippet from the very first
             | example in the html.json file:                 <input
             | type="text" id="searchQuery" name="searchQuery"
             | placeholder="Enter name...">             <button
             | onclick="searchEmployees()">Search</button>         </div>
             | <script>             function searchEmployees() {
             | var input, filter, table, tr, td, i, txtValue;
             | ...etc...
             | 
             | There's no code in the repo, but the paper says this about
             | how the inputs were generated:
             | 
             |  _For all the selected languages except HTML, we adopt an
             | in-depth evolution, by asking GPT-3.5 to rewrite the seed
             | instruction (Python) into a more complicated version
             | relevant to the target language (Python, JavaScript,
             | TypeScript, C, C++, Java, or Go). However, for HTML, we
             | adopt in-breadth evolution to produce a brand-new HTML-
             | related instruction..._
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | I've just realized that the most ultimate "no good deed goes
       | unpunished" is that the mountain of open source code released by
       | programmers will be used by LLMs to put them out of jobs.
        
         | csjh wrote:
         | Fortunately we'll get revolutionary new products from it, such
         | as calendar app (with AI integration), email app (with AI
         | integration), resume builder app (with AI integration), and
         | more!
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | oh no and a wave of patents with 'using ai' it will be 1999
           | all over again.
        
         | munificent wrote:
         | And the mountain of concept art created by digital artists and
         | uploaded to the web is putting them out of jobs thanks to
         | DALL*E and friends.
         | 
         | And the mountain of writing created by authors and uploaded to
         | the web is putting them out of jobs.
         | 
         | And the mountain of music created by musicians is going to
         | start putting them out of jobs.
         | 
         | Generative AI is an unprecedented transfer of wealth-generating
         | capability from creative people to giant corporations.
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | in a world where all office workers are now permanently
           | unemployable: what use are Microsoft's products?
           | 
           | AI kills 90% of demand for their products
           | 
           | I don't think roofers need Microsoft Teams
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | But Microsoft doesn't sell to office workers, they sell to
             | executives... who would relish the idea of getting rid of
             | those office workers. And guess who owns "Open" "AI"...
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | will the executives buy legions of Windows machines if
               | they don't have any workers?
        
           | bcrosby95 wrote:
           | And it will occur faster than any transition in history.
           | Meatspace has natural limits to how fast things can do this.
        
             | staunton wrote:
             | But, contrary to at any such developments in history, the
             | people who are losing out aren't the "poor working class".
             | They already have cultural and political power that they
             | stand to lose. This might still go a lot of ways.
        
               | Timon3 wrote:
               | Some of them sure, but you're painting with the broadest
               | brush possible. Do you really think the average artist is
               | not "poor working class", that they have cultural and
               | political power?
        
               | staunton wrote:
               | Maybe not the average but the power is concentrated in a
               | few and they are also affected. I'm expecting many who
               | collectively do have power to participate in shaping how
               | these things are used and perhaps oppose the big
               | companies.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | netbioserror wrote:
       | So the equivalent of transfer learning. Neat, but I'd like to see
       | it forced into a new paradigm or syntax. How would it handle
       | Haskell or Clojure?
        
         | SomewhatLikely wrote:
         | They do show training on HTML is still leading to improvements
         | across languages. It looks to me like training on C led to the
         | biggest average improvement among the tested languages. I'm
         | curious if the effect translates to humans as well. I know that
         | for myself learning C taught me a lot about what the higher
         | languages are abstracting away.
        
           | Filligree wrote:
           | It's a common recommendation, right? I think this might be
           | close to being actual evidence for it.
        
             | ahoka wrote:
             | The risk for permanent brain damage is too high. Although
             | knowing C helps understanding why some horrible design
             | elements exist in "modern" programming languages.
        
       | catskul2 wrote:
       | Since this is on arxiv one presumes it's not been peer reviewed
       | yet, right? Is there a way to leave comments? There are a couple
       | of confusing language/grammar mistakes including some in the
       | first sentence.
        
         | behnamoh wrote:
         | If there's anything I've learnt in the past year about LLMs,
         | it's this:
         | 
         | there's so much hype, ungrounded research "findings", and next-
         | big-thing libraries (remember langchain?)
         | 
         | LLMs, at least the ones companies use, are APIs all the way
         | down. Stay away from anything or anyone who claims they've
         | discovered something no one else knew about LLMs.
        
           | aalimov_ wrote:
           | Maybe staying away from someone selling something while
           | making that claim, but staying curious seems appropriate.
           | 
           | > LLMs, at least the ones companies use, are APIs all the way
           | down.
           | 
           | Really does seem like it. So many interesting little projects
           | that end up being nothing more than a hidden prompt and an
           | api call to OpenAI
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | Even the first sentence of the summary is unclear:
         | 
         | > When human programmers have mastered a programming language,
         | it would be easier when they learn a new programming language.
         | 
         | I think they're saying "When human programmers have mastered a
         | programming language, it makes it easier for them to learn a
         | new programming language", but... I'm not entirely sure.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | Yeah, that's what they're saying. English is not an easy
           | language.
           | 
           | "It would be easier to learn a programming language, when you
           | have mastered any other programming language" is clear, IMHO,
           | but flipping the clauses makes it less clear.
        
             | HappMacDonald wrote:
             | > English is not an easy language.
             | 
             | "ChatGPT, please translate my incoherent stream of
             | consciousness into clear English"
             | 
             | then review its output like one would a rough draft, and
             | repeat as needed.
             | 
             | As far as human languages go, yes English is at least
             | B-tier difficulty. Not least of which due to having the
             | largest working vocabulary on Earth. But for all of the
             | problems that LLMs might have with object permanence and
             | memory and such, I think it's pretty safe to say that GPT3+
             | has _mastered_ both the commonly used vocabulary and even
             | the most subtle turns of grammar in the English Language.
             | Which is never going to not dumbfound me. O_O
        
         | scott_s wrote:
         | Email the first author.
        
       | leetharris wrote:
       | This is true with natural language as well in LLMs, ASRs, and
       | more.
       | 
       | At Rev we found that adding data from other languages to
       | primarily-English ASR models helped reduce WER in the target
       | language substantially (especially when accents were involved).
       | We found similar benefits when training translation models.
        
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