[HN Gopher] Thousands of octopuses gather off California to broo...
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       Thousands of octopuses gather off California to brood eggs at a
       warm spot
        
       Author : gmays
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2023-09-01 13:36 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | prpl wrote:
       | We would be warm, below the storm, in our little hideaway beneath
       | the waves
        
         | EMCymatics wrote:
         | Kracken City.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | Take me down to the Kracken city
           | 
           | Where the seagrass's green and the girls are eight-armed.
           | 
           | </GnR>
        
           | deedree wrote:
           | I can't decide if you knew it was a reference to the Beatles
           | Octopus's Garden and tried to be even wittier or not.
           | 
           | For me it was instant recognition, I was rather surprised
           | that lived in my subconsciousness.
        
       | mikepurvis wrote:
       | This is likely the site of the vigilant octomom from 2007, who
       | was observed by researchers to have guarded her eggs for over
       | four years:
       | 
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2014.15646
        
         | iscrewyou wrote:
         | Radiolab did a test episode on this. It's fascinating!!
         | 
         | https://radiolab.org/podcast/octomom
        
       | jiofj wrote:
       | Let me take this opportunity to recommend this recipe from my
       | country - https://www.thespruceeats.com/galician-style-octopus-
       | recipe-...
        
         | ajmurmann wrote:
         | IMO, octopus are too smart to be eaten ethically.
        
           | soperj wrote:
           | Mushrooms could be the most intelligent organism on earth.
        
             | stOneskull wrote:
             | fungus in general
             | 
             | like how the ground fungus communicates through earth, the
             | invisible flying fungus might have a wifi-type system.. 'we
             | found bread!'
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | I love Suzanne Simard but I strongly believe she has
             | mistaken osmotic pressure for intention in some of her
             | work.
        
           | kajecounterhack wrote:
           | I'm leaning in agreement with you. Squid also reproduce a lot
           | faster than octopus (market squid lifespan is 9 months and
           | they die after reproduction) so I recommend folks save their
           | cephalopod recipes for squid.
        
             | soperj wrote:
             | Some octopuses only live for 6 months.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Like eating your border collie.
        
           | Zambyte wrote:
           | Can people with mental disabilities be eaten ethically?
           | 
           | Follow up question since I can guess your answer: what about
           | mentally disabled chimpanzees? What about mentally disabled
           | octopuswhiches[0]? I'm talking to the point where they would
           | not survive outside of human intervention. Or maybe not.
           | Where is the line?
           | 
           | [0] as defined as the plural of octopus elsewhere in the
           | comments
        
             | palmer_fox wrote:
             | There are many lines. Some lines are drawn by the law,
             | other lines are drawn by the society we live in and/or our
             | individual ethical norms.
             | 
             | If we have collectively decided that intelligence is a
             | factor when deciding whether an animal can be eaten by
             | humans, then it's a perfectly logical conclusion for many
             | people that eating octopuses is disgraceful.
        
         | rjtavares wrote:
         | Since we're recommending recipes, here's one from my country -
         | https://www.authenticfoodquest.com/polvo-a-lagareiro-recipe-...
         | 
         | Cheers neighbour!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dunefox wrote:
         | Absolutely reprehensible.
        
           | borski wrote:
           | Yes, how dare a culture eat an animal, making delicious
           | cuisine. What villainy. Who would ever think to stoop to
           | cooking and eating something that lives in the ocean?!
        
             | Timon3 wrote:
             | I take it you wouldn't have an issue with eating other
             | people if they lived in the ocean?
        
               | borski wrote:
               | It has nothing to do with the fact that they live in the
               | ocean. We are omnivores, not herbivores. If there were no
               | other animals around to eat, then yes, I'm certain
               | various populations of people would resort to cannibalism
               | and have in the past.
               | 
               | They are not "savages," just different.
               | 
               | We've eaten meat, of land, sea, and air, for far longer
               | than anyone has tried to convince anyone else they should
               | be vegan. That's all I'm saying.
        
               | kajecounterhack wrote:
               | We've also as a collective re-evaluated our values over
               | time, reducing our overall cruelty and savagery as we
               | realized its extent. There's nothing wrong with that
               | either, and your original comment did not adequately
               | recognize that this is where the sentiment comes from.
        
               | borski wrote:
               | Please check yourself here; who is "we"? Clearly the
               | Portuguese and Spanish still love their pulpo, so we as a
               | "collective" of _humans_ have apparently not collectively
               | re-evaluated our values over time, deciding that eating
               | meat is cruel and savage.
               | 
               |  _You_ have, and that's completely okay.
               | 
               | But to unilaterally call a culture's cuisine "absolutely
               | reprehensible," is, in my opinion, the actually
               | reprehensible act.
               | 
               | In particular, calling someone's cuisine (or really
               | almost anything else) "absolutely reprehensible" is a
               | great, surefire way to not convince anyone your point has
               | merit.
               | 
               | To be ultra clear: I have no issues with vegetarians,
               | vegans, or anyone else. My issue is with people who have
               | issue with those who have different beliefs or ways of
               | life, labeling those people as "absolutely
               | reprehensible."
               | 
               | That, in essence, is my issue with the original comment.
        
               | decremental wrote:
               | [dead]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | callalex wrote:
             | I agree.
        
       | j-wags wrote:
       | I learned recently that the pluralization of "octopus" is a
       | linguistics rabbit hole. While most people would reach for
       | "octopuses" or "octopi", the strictly correctest pluralization
       | would be "octopodes" (last syllable rhyming with "these"), since
       | the word is from ancient greek. [1]
       | 
       | I first heard this on a linguistics podcast called "Talk the
       | Talk"[2] (now superseded by "Because Language"[3]). The hosts go
       | on to clarify that language evolves over time and is most
       | importantly defined by what people actually use, so there's
       | nothing wrong with modern English deviating from the ancient
       | greek pluralization.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralis...
       | [2] https://talkthetalkpodcast.com/ [3]
       | https://becauselanguage.com/
        
         | arcticbull wrote:
         | It is my understanding that 'octopuses' is the strictly correct
         | option because it matches a greek root word with an English
         | suffix and we are speaking English after all. Dictionaries seem
         | to agree.
         | 
         | Octopodes is acceptable in some contexts because it matches a
         | greek root word with a greek suffix. Octopi is just wrong
         | because it applies a latin suffix to a greek root.
         | 
         | This came up notably a few years ago as the winning answer to a
         | high-stakes HQ Trivia game. [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/05/arts/hq-trivia-app-
         | appoin...
        
           | remarkEon wrote:
           | I'm not sure I agree.
           | 
           | If we were speaking Latin, would "Octopi" still be wrong?
           | Given the logic used to claim that Octopuses is the correct
           | pluralization, I don't see how it could be.
           | 
           | Thus, I'm left to conclude that Octopodes is the only correct
           | form since it lacks this spoken language dependency.
        
             | suzakus wrote:
             | Yes, octopi is wrong in latin. Octopus is conjugated as
             | Octopodi in the plural. See:
             | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/octopus#Latin
        
               | fishtockos wrote:
               | See my sibling comment - where does the insistence that
               | octopus is third declension come from? The reality is
               | that while most Greek loanwords are third declension,
               | many are not, and Latin authors tended to not be
               | consistent.
        
         | soperj wrote:
         | I feel like we should settle it with something that nobody
         | agrees on. Octopuswiches.
        
           | extrememacaroni wrote:
           | Octii
        
           | satori99 wrote:
           | Or perhaps Octopussies?
        
         | googlryas wrote:
         | There is no such way to define strictly correct through logic
         | alone in English. It's really just whatever people say.
         | 
         | After all, we have a ton of words that mix latin and greek
         | roots/-fixes. Eg bioluminescence, bigamy, homophobic, etc.
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | My understanding is that all variations are generally
         | acceptable and no one cares all that much:
         | 
         | * octopodes
         | 
         | * octopi
         | 
         | * octopuses
        
           | commandlinefan wrote:
           | > no one cares
           | 
           | My elementary school teachers sure did. And they insisted
           | that it was "octopi".
        
             | FrankoDelMar wrote:
             | Excuse me if this may sounds harsh or uncharitable, but my
             | experience with American elementary school teachers has led
             | me to believe that many, if not most, elementary school
             | teachers are generally rigid in their way of teaching (my
             | way is the right way, there is no other way), and refuse to
             | address nuance, perhaps from their own ignorance, their
             | patronization of children, or both. While we absolutely
             | need and should support high quality elementary school
             | teachers, the assumption I've developed is that most
             | elementary school teachers are highly juvenile themselves,
             | and are there partially due to their own lack of executive
             | functioning, considering that elementary school is more
             | similar to a day care than an actual educational facility.
             | 
             | I recall talking to an elementary school teacher who
             | insisted that the only way to comprehend whether a number
             | was even was to determine if the least significant digit
             | was 0 or 2 and I was met with hostility when I mentioned
             | that while that may be easier for the child to understand
             | within a base-10 world, if even the educator can't
             | understand why an even number is more accurately described
             | as a number which when divided by 2 has a remainder of 0
             | then I should be very concerned about the state of
             | education.
        
               | actuallyalys wrote:
               | It's possible. I suspect it may partly be that stories
               | about elementary teachers being stubbornly wrong are more
               | interesting than stories of them being stubbornly right
               | or being open minded.
        
               | Clamchop wrote:
               | I haven't heard about much besides perhaps even stronger
               | rigidity from other places so we might not be especially
               | bad and I've only heard of softening in the US lately.
               | 
               | But spending too much time on nuance may be especially
               | counterproductive with younger children. I'm not sure
               | about that but it's a reasonable hypothesis.
        
             | dekhn wrote:
             | To boldly go.
        
           | NoboruWataya wrote:
           | I think you are correct on the first point, but judging by
           | the other comments here (and any time this subject crops up),
           | you are apparently wrong on the second. :P
        
           | fortran77 wrote:
           | No. Octopi is just wrong, has no justification, and is based
           | on ignorance.
        
             | commandlinefan wrote:
             | Tell my 2nd grade teacher.
        
             | fishtockos wrote:
             | No. You seem very confident, but octopi is (grammatically)
             | perfectly acceptable. The English word octopus is taken
             | from the Latin (coined by Linnaeus) word octopus, which is
             | of Greek origin. Greek loanwords in Latin were used very
             | inconsistently, but many people on the internet seem to
             | believe that it MUST be a third declension noun. However,
             | Pliny treats the structurally identical polypus as second
             | declension and uses the plural polypi (see https://www.pers
             | eus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Plin.+Nat.+9&f...).
        
           | srcreigh wrote:
           | Its Engl-ish. Emphasis on the -ish.
           | 
           | They're all fine.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | Octopux.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Yeah, I think that battle was lost a long time ago, and in the
         | scheme of things it wasn't not a big loss. Octopuses is more
         | consistent with how English speakers pluralize, plus it's
         | waaaay more fun to say.
        
         | datastoat wrote:
         | As an Australian I'm used to hearing "antipodean" and sometimes
         | "antipodes", so "octopodes" sits well!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | > the largest congregation of deep-sea octopuses ever discovered
       | on Earth, where over 6,000 octopuses huddle around an extinct
       | underwater volcano in the black, cold ocean depths, almost two
       | miles below the surface.
       | 
       | I'm 99% sure the number 6000 is an estimation, and in that case,
       | how would you start to estimate such number? Divide the area into
       | a grid of N cells, count all of them in one cell and then apply
       | to the entire area? Seems they would be many clusters so the
       | number would be very unreliable.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | is this a FAANG interview?
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | Sampling is a standard technique that produces good results
        
         | keneda7 wrote:
         | The current top comment links to this video:
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXUOPkQPo8
         | 
         | The 6000 is what they counted in one area.
         | 
         | They estimate 20000 total.
         | 
         | Skip to 1:50 for the part they talk about the counts.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | Exactly what I was looking for, thanks :)
        
       | kristopolous wrote:
       | MBARIs video on this is the thing to watch
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zEXUOPkQPo8
       | 
       | It's worth the click, they're the group doing the research here.
        
         | pwillia7 wrote:
         | Wow -- great video. Interesting how you can tell the narrator
         | is involved in the project and really cares versus some paid
         | voice actor reading a script.
        
       | darth_avocado wrote:
       | Should this be covered so publicly by media outlets with no
       | protections in place for the animals? At least don't give out the
       | approximate location that easily. I'm pretty sure someone going
       | to show up to the spot with a net.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | linuxftw wrote:
         | It's 2 miles below the surface. They'll be perfectly fine.
        
         | shimmeringleaf wrote:
         | The part of them being "almost two miles below the surface"
         | might be one of the reasons they mention it so brazenly,
         | totally in agreement with you, but someone at two miles depth
         | with a net is probably unlikely here.
        
       | anon84873628 wrote:
       | >Brood times for nesting females there seemed to be about 1.8
       | years, while previous observations of a deep-sea octopus in cold
       | water showed that it took 4.5 years for its eggs to hatch, a
       | length of time longer than any other animal.
       | 
       | This is just mind boggling. And during that time the females
       | aren't feeding?!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | civilitty wrote:
         | The mothers die after the eggs hatch to provide food for the
         | babies. It's similar to bears overeating before hibernation,
         | except they do it to prepare for sexual maturity.
        
       | dredmorbius wrote:
       | For those like feeling deja vu, there was _some_ discussion 10
       | days ago, but _NOT_ above HN 's general "significant discussion"
       | threshold:
       | 
       | <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37268852>
       | 
       | (Based on NY Times coverage.)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
         | 
         |  _Atop an Underwater Hot Spring, an 'Octopus Garden' Thrives_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37268852 - Aug 2023 (10
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Watch Baby Octopuses Hatch from a Surprising Deep-Sea
         | Nursery_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36600179 - July
         | 2023 (54 comments)
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | Ah, I hadn't found the 2nd (despite trying a few different
           | searches). Would have tripped my own dupe criteria if I had.
        
       | dotancohen wrote:
       | Thousands of octopodes, no?
        
         | sandyarmstrong wrote:
         | Octopuses is preferred.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octopus#Etymology_and_pluralis...
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | You can pry octopi from my cold, dead hands.
        
             | evanmoran wrote:
             | I believe you mean tentacles.
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | EMCymatics wrote:
       | It has been a closely held belief of mine that we waste our time
       | wondering about more intelligent life in the far reaches of space
       | than right here on earth.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | palmer_fox wrote:
         | Treating animals as anything more than "pets" or "food" here on
         | Earth would inevitably raise questions about animal rights,
         | ethics of our handling of planet's resources, etc.
         | 
         | We would rather eat live octopuses and pretend that finding
         | life on other planets is more important than saving life on
         | this one.
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | > Treating animals as anything more than "pets"
           | 
           | To be fair, the eugenics experiment that is the "dog"
           | significantly increased the species intelligence.
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | Are you claiming that domestic dogs are more intelligent
             | than gray wolves?
        
           | OkayPhysicist wrote:
           | Obviously we should be doing both. How else are we ever going
           | to taste the aliens?
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Some places are beginning to phase out cephalopods as food.
           | We'll see how long it takes Japan to do so... They're still
           | hunting whales.
        
             | seanmcdirmid wrote:
             | I just visited Osaka. From what I saw I doubt anytime soon.
        
         | feedsmgmt wrote:
         | The recent UAPs with seemingly extremely advanced technology
         | could just as easily be coming from within our own oceans as
         | from outer space.
        
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