[HN Gopher] Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter
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Amateur astronomers spot new impact on Jupiter
Author : belter
Score : 37 points
Date : 2023-09-01 08:07 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.space.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.space.com)
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| I'm stunned that there is a not a constant recording of those
| bodies, with some image analysis to detect anomalies like this,
| done by some university.
| dylan604 wrote:
| The sky is big. Every telescope that can be used is looking at
| something.
| thetomcraig wrote:
| It's amazing that amateur folks can provide this much insight
| these days. I worked at JPL 10 years ago and setup a pipeline for
| amateur Jupiter astronomers to get their images to JPL/NASA.
| Basically JPL figured out that these people were consistently
| producing such high quality data, that NASA could take advantage
| of it for the Juno mission. Glad to see this in the news :).
| dylan604 wrote:
| It makes sense seeing that NASA/JPL only have so many
| instruments pointing at Jupiter at any time. That number is
| dwarfed by the number of amateurs looking at it on any night.
| It also helps that it's one of the easiest things to view.
| beebeepka wrote:
| What does one need to look at Jupiter, visible light or not?
| And how much would it cost to have a setup that I can feed
| some sky coordinates and enjoy the feed/s on a screen.
|
| Any useful software that also happens to be free and/or open
| source? I just realized I don't know anything about this
| fascinating stuff
| dylan604 wrote:
| There's lots of really good options available now at some
| very affordable prices. There's quite a few reflectors in
| the 6"-8" size that are very small and easy to set up.
| Because the planets are so much brighter, especially the
| moon, than deep sky objects, all of the tracking and image
| stacking software is not necessary to start. There are
| scopes now that come with a mobile app and a built in
| camera.
|
| Because I don't have hands on experience with anything
| other than my gear, I can't really recommend specific
| models. Celestron would be a good safe starting point. The
| magazine/sites from places like Sky&Telescope or BBC Sky at
| Night, will publish reviews of new gear ranging from
| "baby's first scope" to as much money as you have.
|
| https://skyandtelescope.org/
|
| https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/
| belter wrote:
| https://twitter.com/MASA_06R/status/1696613936534360293?ref_...
| tetris11 wrote:
| If you can, you should:
|
| https://nitter.net/MASA_06R/status/1696613936534360293
| jebarker wrote:
| It seems fairly frequent that amateurs observe large impacts on
| Jupiter. Presumably they would be devastating impacts if they hit
| Earth. Is the reason we don't get them frequently on Earth
| because of the size difference (11X smaller than Jupiter) or
| we're somehow protected by location?
| zmmmmm wrote:
| that was the most interesting part in the last paragraph to me:
|
| > The gas giant is considered to play a big role in protecting
| the inner solar system from asteroids and comets by attracting
| and absorbing impacts or flinging potentially dangerous objects
| further out into the solar system
|
| It's fascinating to think how many factors have come together
| to make life on earth so particularly viable. Even with this
| "protection" we've had major catastrophic events that nearly
| wiped out all advanced forms of life.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| The answer is in the sub-headline: "This gas giant regularly
| absorbs hits from comets and asteroids, protecting inner solar
| system worlds."
|
| It's a really cool concept, though it's not settled science:
| https://earthsky.org/space/is-it-true-that-jupiter-protects-...
|
| It's interesting to consider that a Kepler planet may also
| require larger mass planets further out to perform a similar
| role.
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| I once heard that Jupiter protects us because it's so massive
| that it catches rocks that would otherwise come towards us. No
| idea if that's true, but it makes for a nice story about the
| silent gassy protector.
| pohl wrote:
| Would there be any interesting science to be had if we sent
| something to orbit Jupiter that could wait for, detect, and get
| us closer readings/views of such impacts?
| stouset wrote:
| I'm sure there would be _some_ but of course those resources
| are an opportunity cost for potentially more-valuable science
| performed elsewhere.
| JacobAldridge wrote:
| I was only 12 when Shoemaker-Levy banged into Jupiter in 1994, so
| wiser minds or those with better memories may correct me.
|
| At the time, the leading theory for what killed the dinosaurs was
| still quite terrestrial - volcanos and climate change.
|
| There was increasing evidence for the meteorite impact theory,
| but a big block was "Space is big, outside the early formation of
| the Solar System comets and asteroids don't just slam into
| planets".
|
| Then comet Shoemaker-Levy showed us that they actually do,
| perhaps still quite frequently, with Jupiter playing an imperfect
| shield for Earth. It was one of the last roadblocks to the now-
| widely accepted impact theory (still not 'solved' of course, and
| perhaps only part of the extinction puzzle).
|
| Dinosaurs were back in the zeitgeist thanks to _Jurassic Park_
| (1993), but Shoemaker-Levy and the impact theory gave us the 1998
| twin movies _Armageddon_ and (the better of the two, imho) _Deep
| Impact_.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Was that really the leading theory you were taught? If you were
| 12, I'm <10 years older, and even then I distinctly remember
| the asteroid theory being taught as what wiped out the
| dinosaurs. Climate change is kind of given after that, but the
| asteroid was taught as _the_ cause.
|
| There's been a few "big one" theories I've heard about. The
| impending California earthquake is a popular one, but I'm
| familiar with super volcanoes and asteroids too from childhood.
| davesque wrote:
| Yeah, I remember the same. I was 13 in 1994 and I remember
| the impact theory being taught as _the_ cause well before the
| Shoemaker-Levy impact.
| Archelaos wrote:
| A single event like the Shoemaker-Levy 9 impact does not tell
| us much about frequencies on its own. Besides, the original
| width of Shoemaker-Levy 9 was estimated to have been between
| 1.5 to 2 km.[1] The Chicxulub meteorite was estimated to have
| been between 10 and 80 km wide.[2] And it happened around 65
| million years ago. So frequencies then and frequencies now
| might be quite different. That meteorite impacts happen from
| time to time on earth was nothing controversial. The question
| was, whether there had been a (very rare) hugh impact, large
| enough at the time of the Cretaceous-Paleogene extinction event
| and whether this was the only cause for all those extinctions.
| This is a very complex scenario and several of its details are
| still debated today.[3]
|
| The most important evidence that an impact was the main cause
| of the extinction event was provided by the discovery of the
| Chicxulub crater in 1990/91. However, the investigation of this
| and other evidence is still ongoing. Contrary to popular
| belief, scientific debates of this magnitude are not resolved
| by a single ingenious theory or observation. It is the hard
| work of many, many people over years and decades that gradually
| changes and refines the web of belief of a scientific
| community.
|
| [1] https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and-
| meteors/co...
|
| [2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1403.6391
|
| [3] Wikipedia offers summaries of some alternative hypotheses,
| showing how complex the arguments are:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cretaceous%E2%80%93Paleogene_e...
| njarboe wrote:
| Alvarez et al., 1980 [1] was the paper that convinced most
| geologists that the extinction was caused by an asteroid impact
| [source, PhD in Earth Science]. They found a layer of clay with
| very high iridium concentration at the K-T boundary in multiple
| locations. Some asteroids have high iridium concentrations
| relative to the Earth's crust so an impact of a large one would
| leave this signal all over the Earth.
|
| Wikipedia has an interesting timeline of theories for the K-T
| extinction (now called the K-P which is not as cool a name),
| but strangely does has a link to this paper[1].
|
| [1]https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.208.4448.109
| ... [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Cretaceous%E2%
| 80%9...
|
| Paper's Abstract Platinum metals are depleted in the earth's
| crust relative to their cosmic abundance; concentrations of
| these elements in deep-sea sediments may thus indicate influxes
| of extraterrestrial material. Deep-sea limestones exposed in
| Italy, Denmark, and New Zealand show iridium increases of about
| 30, 160, and 20 times, respectively, above the background level
| at precisely the time of the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinctions,
| 65 million years ago. Reasons are given to indicate that this
| iridium is of extraterrestrial origin, but did not come from a
| nearby supernova. A hypothesis is suggested which accounts for
| the extinctions and the iridium observations. Impact of a large
| earth-crossing asteroid would inject about 60 times the
| object's mass into the atmosphere as pulverized rock; a
| fraction of this dust would stay in the stratosphere for
| several years and be distributed worldwide. The resulting
| darkness would suppress photosynthesis, and the expected
| biological consequences match quite closely the extinctions
| observed in the paleontological record. One prediction of this
| hypothesis has been verified: the chemical composition of the
| boundary clay, which is thought to come from the stratospheric
| dust, is markedly different from that of clay mixed with the
| Cretaceous and Tertiary limestones, which are chemically
| similar to each other. Four different independent estimates of
| the diameter of the asteroid give values that lie in the range
| 10 +- 4 kilometers.
| scns wrote:
| Scary Stuff:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zNuT4dbdjU
|
| Big thank You to Jupiter for swallowing explosions roughly half
| the size of earth (hyperbole maybe?) and stay fine while doing
| so
| trilbyglens wrote:
| This is totally going to be my old man hobby.
| dylan604 wrote:
| It's sad it has to be this way. I have a telescope with a
| smaller telescope for tracking. I have the motorized equatorial
| mount. I have the gear to connect the mount and smaller scope
| with a camera to my laptop. I have the software to control them
| for precise tracking. I have the camera to attach to the main
| telescope. I have the stacking software. I don't have the luck
| of being free when the seeing is great, and have the
| unfortunate luck of always being available when the seeing is
| for shite.
|
| Edit: my "old man" plans are to buy some property well outside
| of light pollution. that way i can just do my hobby any night
| there's clear skies
|
| Edit2: there's a site in New Mexico[0] where a group has
| purchased some land strategically where they are at a bit of
| altitude, and have more nights than not of clear skies. They've
| it up so that you can CoLo your astro gear there, and they
| provided a remote connection so you can do everything remotely.
| For a small nominal monthly fee of course. This is my "pre-old
| man" plan B to research, but I feel my stuff my be too
| amateurish for this
|
| [0]https://nmskies.com/newmexicosite.html
| goodbyesf wrote:
| > Edit: my "old man" plans are to buy some property well
| outside of light pollution.
|
| I've always wonder how feasible it was to do astronomy by
| boat? That way you can chase clear skies. And I'd suspect
| there is almost no light pollution out in the deep blue sea.
| jebarker wrote:
| A good place to consider for your property purchase is the
| area around Crestone, CO. It was recently designated a Dark
| Sky Sanctuary. It's near some great hiking, Sand Dunes
| National Park and good skiing. Also, it has the only legal
| funeral pyre in the USA. [1]
|
| As for the remote sites in New Mexico, I've looked into
| renting telescope time or remotely locating my
| astrophotography gear but I just feel like I'd be losing
| something from the hobby if it didn't require me to be hands
| on with the gear and outside.
|
| [1] https://crestoneendoflifeproject.org/services/open-air-
| crema...
| dylan604 wrote:
| There's a group about 4 hours from Dallas called 3 Rivers
| Foundation (www.3rf.org) that has been buying up land in
| the county. The last time I was there, they were trying to
| get their campus (700+ acres at that time) designated as a
| dark sky location too. They are also attempting to increase
| their acreage to help keep it that way. There's a state
| park Copper Breaks that has the darkest skies of any state
| park (caveat being Big Bend is a national park) in the same
| area.
|
| >I just feel like I'd be losing something
|
| Spend enough cold nights outside, and you'll get really
| fuzzy to the remote concept! There have been nights where
| it was so cold, that once the rig was running, everyone
| just hangs out inside where it's warm with a periodic
| jaunts outside just to check on things.
|
| Edit: I had to look up some details. At one of the post
| facilities I once worked, I met John Davis of Jimmy Neutron
| fame. He's a big astrophotography buff as well. While we
| were in the color session waiting for some renders to
| finish, he showed me his remote setup. He can log in and
| view some cameras to ensure it is safe to open up for
| observing. He can tell it what to observe in a set it and
| forget it manner. At the end, it is scripted to process the
| images and email it to him for review. That's exactly how
| I'd spend my Hollywood earnings too if I ever had any. I
| can't remember if he was the person I learned about 3rf
| from or if it was another client. But yeah, it's a pick
| your mouth up from the floor and wipe the drool off your
| face before you look like a fool. He said that's not the
| first time it's happened to him. Very cool cat.
| [deleted]
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