[HN Gopher] Announcing the Pollen API
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Announcing the Pollen API
        
       Author : ohmyblock
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2023-08-29 08:21 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cloud.google.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cloud.google.com)
        
       | cumshitpiss wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | koliber wrote:
       | When allergies act up, we need to start polling the pollen in
       | Poland.
        
       | thinkingemote wrote:
       | https://mapsplatform.google.com/maps-products/pollen/
        
       | schnable wrote:
       | Thought Pollen was going to be another bad Google product name,
       | but it's actually just a very literal name.
        
       | themedes_ wrote:
       | Have they released a date this service will shut down yet?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | evujumenuk wrote:
         | It's both funny and sad how "Google" has become synonymous with
         | "time-limited". You start treating a new API like a pop-up
         | store downtown -- it's okay or even good to be interested, but
         | relying on it would be folly.
        
         | frou_dh wrote:
         | How bored are you to register an account just to post that
         | formulaic comment?
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | I completely agree with you, but there is a kernel of truth
           | to what they say. I would be apprehensive about using this
           | API for anything serious.
        
           | kubb wrote:
           | It could be a black PR effort of a competing company.
           | Remember Scroogled? That, but a bit more subtle.
        
             | moooo99 wrote:
             | Could be, but unfortunately, this isn't an entirely
             | unreasonable question regardless. Given Google's track
             | record, I would be very hesitant to integrate new APIs
             | right after launch.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Before clicking I assumed this was going to be some kind of fancy
       | LLM API with a fun codename but nope it's literally an api for
       | pollen data.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | seatac76 wrote:
       | Any word on pricing? Would love to use it a personal app.
        
       | waddup_ wrote:
       | At the surface this looks cool but I wonder if the data is
       | actually reliable.
       | 
       | That heatmap is pretty.
        
       | miked85 wrote:
       | I wonder how long this offering will last before being shutdown?
        
       | tech-historian wrote:
       | Fan of these interesting APIs, even if they feel experimental.
       | Google also used to have a Flu Trends API [1], based on search
       | query data in 25 countries.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Flu_Trends
        
       | neom wrote:
       | Accuweather API is pretty decent and relatively affordable(free)
       | for personal use: https://developer.accuweather.com/apis
        
       | sgammon wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | VeejayRampay wrote:
         | vitriolic comment voicing your own little issues that adds
         | nothing to the conversation about the topic at hand
        
           | pritambaral wrote:
           | 1. Threads on HN aren't expected to remain on-topic,
           | especially top-level comments (like the one you're replying
           | to). HN's content guidelines place no restriction on comments
           | to be on-topic, let alone decide what on-topic is.
           | 
           | 2. I see no vitriol in your parent comment. Sarcasm yes, but
           | employing sarcasm alone does not make speech vitriolic.
           | 
           | 3. You commented _about_ your parent, rathering than
           | responding to the content of it, adding nothing to the
           | conversation it started.
           | 
           | 4. That you interpreted your parent's sarcasm much more
           | strongly -- as, instead, vitriolic -- perhaps voices one of
           | "your own little issues".
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | > HN's content guidelines place no restriction on comments
             | to be on-topic, let alone decide what on-topic is.
             | 
             | Do you really think there needs to be a guideline saying
             | "comments should be on-topic"? Wouldn't you assume that
             | based on both the guidelines and how we generally conduct
             | ourselves in the comments? The guidelines don't say
             | anything specifically about _racism_ but surely you would
             | agree that racist comments have no place here, right?
             | 
             | But despite all that, the guidelines _do_ ask us to avoid
             | generic tangents and to not post shallow dismissals. I 'd
             | say the comment at the top of this thread qualifies on both
             | counts.
             | 
             | Now we're many messages deep here arguing about what
             | belongs and that itself is a violation of the most
             | important guideline: this is boring to read.
        
               | sgammon wrote:
               | Are you comparing my very reasonable comment to racism?
               | Or... ?
               | 
               | Just because you think a comment isn't relevant doesn't
               | mean others do.
        
           | sgammon wrote:
           | These aren't my own issues! I don't use Firebase or Bazel
           | anymore. But thousands of developers do or need to.
           | 
           | How many developers are going to use the Pollen API, do you
           | think?
        
       | capableweb wrote:
       | The title mentions "Providing actionable info" but I don't see
       | what's actually actionable here? The text also mentions
       | "Actionable tips to minimize pollen exposure", what besides avoid
       | going outside or wearing a mask could you actually do?
        
         | carstenhag wrote:
         | I don't know about their tips, but generally you should start
         | medication some weeks/days before exposure.
        
       | gdsdfe wrote:
       | Someone should make an app to bet on how long until a Google
       | service or product will go to the graveyard
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | If this does take off, it might actually turn out to be extremely
       | dangerous.
       | 
       | Lets say you buy into all the marketing nonsense about how it can
       | value add to your business and maybe even someone decides to
       | create something genuinely useful for people with crippling
       | alergies, maybe different routes, or some kind of alert system.
       | 
       | Then Google in their usual way shuts down the api service with no
       | recourse or alternative. Now you've left people who were using
       | it, maybe heavily during certain seasons etc, stranded.
       | 
       | I agree with the other posts, this smells of a "POC" that was
       | pushed forward to demonstrate work done. Will be interesting to
       | see how good the data is, but moreso how long the service will
       | last.
        
         | dbbk wrote:
         | Literally nothing lasts forever.
        
           | bilekas wrote:
           | There's a difference between 'lasting forever' and pulling
           | the plug without warning as Google are known to do after
           | people/companies have invested into the services.
        
       | h1fra wrote:
       | So random (but useful). With this name I was expecting an AI
       | Model.
       | 
       | Is there a theory that at some point we will have an API for
       | every environmental event?
        
       | krzyk wrote:
       | OK, Pollen API, but maybe also add this to google maps so people
       | can use it now, not wait for others to integrate it?
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | I initially thought _Google partnered with Matthew Butterick on a
       | publishing system?_ then clicked through and was a bit
       | disappointed.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | > According to the World Health Organization, up to  1/3  of the
       | global population suffers from allergic rhinitis,
       | 
       | Has anyone yet figured out _why_ so many humans suffer from an
       | allergy to many natural plants which we have lived around for
       | millions of years?
       | 
       | It looks like the first documented case of Hayfever was March
       | 1819[1], and at the time it was considered a very unusual and
       | rare affliction. When and why has it now become so common?
       | 
       | [1]:
       | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3110966/#:~:tex...,
        
         | mvdwoord wrote:
         | Exposure, especially kids. Also food it I had to guess.
         | 
         | It seems that we are shielding ourselves ever more from
         | exposure to nature. Which has tremendous benefits, but
         | allergies seem to play into that.
         | 
         | As for food, I have now seen too many people cure themselves
         | from hayfever and other allergies by ditching carbs, or other
         | significant dietary changes. No accident if you ask me. And
         | would line up somewhat with industrialization of food
         | production post 1800 or so.
        
         | jkukul wrote:
         | There was a very interesting discussion recently on this topic.
         | [1]
         | 
         | There are various hypothesis:
         | 
         | * changes to gut microbiome composition due to modern diets and
         | overuse of antibiotics
         | 
         | * excessive cleanliness and hygiene. The "hygiene hypothesis"
         | suggests that lack of exposure to diverse microbes leads to
         | improperly trained immune systems
         | 
         | * increased exposure to chemicals, plastics, and pollutants
         | that may disrupt immune function
         | 
         | * Cesarean sections and formula feeding rather than vaginal
         | birth and breastfeeding
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37195905
        
           | pbnjeh wrote:
           | Exposure to cigarette smoke was also considered a candidate
           | or reason, when I was younger. I haven't kept up with the
           | thinking on or about this, but I believe it's still
           | considered valid.
           | 
           | Remember, a few decades ago, a lot of the "Western" world
           | smoked, including in public spaces and around kids. As I
           | understand it, a lot of the rest of the world has caught up
           | and still does so. And the Western world isn't exactly rid of
           | the behavior, either.
           | 
           | P.S. I wonder whether anyone's studied possible multiple-
           | generation, genetically-communicated knock-on effects of
           | this.
           | 
           | P.P.S. "Pollen" is also a Racket language based blogging and
           | authoring tool or environment. A bit sorry to see the name
           | become overloaded.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | f6v wrote:
         | In addition to other answers, I'd speculate there's no strong
         | negative selection against moderate allergies. There might
         | simply be no evolutionary disadvantage to being slightly itchy
         | and having running nose for H.sapiens.
        
         | n2d4 wrote:
         | According to Wikipedia [0], Hayfever was already described in
         | the 10th century. It is less common among people who grew up on
         | a farm and more common with rising temperatures and air
         | pollution. Hayfever is also significantly more common in urban
         | areas.
         | 
         | Assumably all of these factors play a role in the prevalence
         | today, though that doesn't rule out the existence of other
         | undiscovered factors (e.g. a disease, as some people
         | speculated).
         | 
         | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allergic_rhinitis#History
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | > Has anyone yet figured out why so many humans suffer from an
         | allergy to many natural plants which we have lived around for
         | millions of years?
         | 
         | For those of us in the Americas most of us aren't living in the
         | same places our ancestors lived for millions of years and so
         | are living around a different set of plants than humans evolved
         | with.
         | 
         | For example I've lived all my life in the western United
         | States, about 30 years in California and 30 years in
         | Washington.
         | 
         | According to DNA testing I have very little Native American
         | ancestry, so it is very likely that almost all of my ancestors
         | from more than around 300 years ago were not from here. The DNA
         | tests say my ancestors were almost all British and German, so
         | almost all of my ancestors from 600 or more years age weren't
         | even on the same continent that I am.
         | 
         | How many generations does a population have to live in a new
         | area before they adapt sufficiently so that the native plants
         | don't give them allergic rhinitis?
        
         | zackmorris wrote:
         | People often plant more male than female trees in cities to
         | avoid having to pick up fruit, which perhaps doubles the pollen
         | load. So it's a cultural problem that overlaps with the
         | homelessness crisis, because the status quo applies pressure to
         | keep everyone working within the system to feed themselves
         | rather than adopting stuff like permaculture and no-till
         | agriculture.
         | 
         | Also the immune system can get confused by two or more
         | simultaneous stressors. So maybe a child has a cold while
         | pollen is present, and develops too many antibodies to the
         | pollen. I saw an animation once showing a normal immune system
         | destroying cells covered in viruses. Then it showed a confused
         | immune system destroying cells covered in allergen molecules.
         | Which releases histamine and triggers a positive feedback loop.
         | Multiple triggers may also be a root cause of many cancers,
         | which can be thought of as autoimmune disease in the extreme.
         | So for example, rheumatoid arthritis responds to methotrexate
         | the way cancer does. Western medicine is often blind to this
         | because it's too hard to do root cause analysis without large
         | epidemiological studies, which are funded through the
         | government and vulnerable to anti-government spending
         | sentiment. Nobody wants to pay for it so we self-medicate
         | rather than solving the underlying mystery.
         | 
         | In my case, I never had seasonal allergies until I was about
         | 11-12, when my elementary school sprayed broadleaf herbicide to
         | kill the dandelions. By coincidence, a family friend had me mow
         | a lawn overtaken by dry cheatgrass, and all I had was a weed
         | eater, so I was out for hours breathing the dust. From that day
         | forward, I had flu-like symptoms for the entire month of May in
         | my hometown, until I reached about 40 and grew out of it. I
         | believe that the herbicide was the second stressor. So my
         | quality of life was impacted by someone else's judgment call
         | which categorized dandelions as weeds instead of, say, bee
         | food. I finally found peace with this when I realized that
         | saving the life of a child who is deathly allergic to bee
         | stings is worth the other students suffering a lifetime of
         | allergies.
         | 
         | I feel now that all questions that seem unanswerable, even with
         | our considerable economic advantage, speak more about our
         | cultural failings than our technological limitations.
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | Some allergies are triggered by a disease[1]. It is possible
         | that hayfever is an outcome of a disease which has become
         | common since 1819. The disease may have no other symptoms, and
         | hay fever a symptom in only some people, and therefore be very
         | hard to track.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2023/p0727-emerging-
         | tick-...
        
           | tonyedgecombe wrote:
           | Or a virus. A lot of autoimmune diseases are thought to be
           | triggered by a virus.
        
       | captn3m0 wrote:
       | > Pollen data presents a unique opportunity for businesses-
       | whether it's an opportunity to build brand loyalty and trust,
       | increase engagement and product value, or become a catalyst for a
       | more resilient community.
       | 
       | Such a perfect example of Google-speak. Every data point is an
       | engagement hack.
        
         | danjc wrote:
         | It's such a ridiculous statement that without context you'd
         | have thought it was a parody of corp speak.
        
         | piva00 wrote:
         | As time passes it feels like Google slowly morphs into a Hooli-
         | esque enterprise. Google's corpspeak has become insufferable...
        
           | rvnx wrote:
           | Sometimes the company is a parody of itself. I got shouted at
           | by People Operations for saying "Merry Christmas"...
        
       | daedlanth wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | thearrow wrote:
       | I'm guessing this is a direct result of their acquisition of
       | BreezoMeter: https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/breezometer
        
         | cvp wrote:
         | Yep, and the Breezometer homepage now redirects to Google's map
         | platform page (subpages still seem to work, such as
         | https://www.breezometer.com/air-quality-map/air-
         | quality/unit...) and they had previously announced plans to
         | sunset the Breezometer app in September.
         | 
         | Breezometer is also the air quality data source for Apple Maps
         | and I'm sure other weather apps too, so assuming the pricing is
         | comparable there's probably a decent business here just from
         | existing customers.
        
       | sauercrowd wrote:
       | Google: We're shutting down Google domains cause we need to
       | focus.
       | 
       | Also Google: Here's the pollen API you guys have been asking for
       | for ages.
        
         | bastawhiz wrote:
         | Came to the comments for this. A pollen API smells exactly like
         | the sort of product that Google will rug in a few short years
         | when it inevitably turns out that nobody is building apps that
         | need pollen data.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rinze wrote:
         | "Quick! Use this in your app before we shut it down!"
        
       | graupel wrote:
       | The Air Quality and Pollen data in these APIs are from Google's
       | fairly recent purchase of Breezometer, the same company Apple
       | uses for AQI across iOS weather products.
        
       | LastCovidWave wrote:
       | It's not allergies. It's COVID.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | I'm a bit surprised to see a single geodata theme packaged as a
       | whole "thing." And goodness the marketing fluff is quite
       | repetitive given they have so little to talk about.
       | 
       | Call me jaded but it feels like someone's really announcing, "I
       | shipped something! Give me my promotion!"
       | 
       | > Our Pollen API is based on a model that calculates the
       | seasonality and daily amount of pollen grains on a 1x1 km2 grid
       | in over 65 countries worldwide, supporting an up to 5-day
       | forecast, 3 plant types, and 15 different plant species. The
       | model uses various inputs like land cover, climatological data,
       | annual pollen production per plant, and more to deliver reliable
       | output predictions of the local pollen level and exposure risk.
       | 
       | The maps look like what you get when you throw Ordinary Kriging
       | at a dataset of very limited coverage. I'd be skeptical of this
       | model without thorough analysis.
        
         | Raed667 wrote:
         | I'm disappointed as i thought they'd use actual sensors instead
         | of guessing using old data.
        
           | INTPenis wrote:
           | Yeah same here, a much more challenging project would be to
           | aggregate data from the thousands of individual pollen
           | services in various countries. I know of at least two here in
           | Sweden. Isn't this what we should use AI for?
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | > Isn't this what we should use AI for?
             | 
             | Nah, this is just data collection and statistics.
        
               | INTPenis wrote:
               | No I mean we should use the potential flexibility of AI
               | to gather data from many varying APIs that might change
               | at any moment without prior warning. Some of these
               | national pollen sites may not even have an API, may
               | require scraping.
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | There's nothing wrong with building a model using related
           | data if the thing you care about is hard/expensive to measure
           | at that scale (which I don't know if that's true or not). But
           | you'd want to validate your model using actual pollen
           | samples.
           | 
           | The data here is pretty much worthless without a paper
           | explaining the model and the validation.
        
             | zo1 wrote:
             | Imagine if they said that about street view? At this point,
             | with so much capital at google, it probably makes sense to
             | just have measuring equipment shipped, installed and have
             | hosted/maintained at these locations. At the very least,
             | snap some kalmann filters together with these "models" and
             | adjust your model predictions with real-time actual values.
        
           | flir wrote:
           | I feel like once upon a time, "blanket the world with a mesh
           | of pollen sensors" would absolutely have been Google's
           | approach.
        
             | Raed667 wrote:
             | Or use an open-data approach from the millions of
             | hobby/scientific weather stations.
             | 
             | That would make it harder to sell the data though so why
             | bother ?
        
               | flir wrote:
               | I think crowdsourcing data's more of an open source
               | thing. I don't think Google's ever been into that? Their
               | approach is more "we're gonna scan all the books in the
               | library/photograph every street in the world".
               | (Interested to hear counterexamples).
        
               | gbear605 wrote:
               | They've crowdsourced a lot of their Maps data for
               | information on specific businesses through the Local
               | Guides program.
        
               | goosinmouse wrote:
               | Also we local guides provide streetview maps where there
               | previously were none.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | crowdsourcing data is exactly what the Googs does.
               | CAPTCHA to train it's models of data of dubious origins
               | is the SEP (someone else's problem) nobody wants to talk
               | about
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | Once upon a time, google was obsessed with aggregating the
             | worlds data. Today, google is all about AI generated or
             | sourced data. And building a complex model to estimate
             | pollen levels is definitely what they'd do.
             | 
             | (Plus the cost of those sensors would not be justified for
             | such a small product).
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | If Google deployed a bunch of sensors of any type the
           | headlines would certainly be "Google is now spying on the
           | air!".
           | 
           | Google has put a air quality sensors in some of its
           | Streetview cars
           | (https://www.google.com/earth/outreach/special-
           | projects/air-q...). Hopefully, they will do the same for
           | Waymo vehicles.
        
         | gorbachev wrote:
         | I have doubts about the accuracy of the data as well. Pollen
         | can be very localized. I'd love to see an independent study on
         | it.
        
         | taco_emoji wrote:
         | Yeah given that they don't describe any sort of innovation on
         | the sensing side of thing, I'm guessing they just trained a
         | neural net with nebulous inputs and expect everybody to believe
         | in the output.
        
       | jug wrote:
       | I think this should have been the link:
       | 
       | https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/maps-platform/going-b...
       | 
       | It's a new initiative with multiple new API's: Solar API, Air
       | Quality API, Pollen API. And that link gives an overview for them
       | all.
        
         | a_square_peg wrote:
         | Solar I sort of get since I don't think anyone does it the
         | scale like Google Sunroof, but not sure what the added value is
         | for Google to create the APIs for Air Quality and Pollen? There
         | are service providers and models that do these already at
         | global scale (e.g. https://atmosphere.copernicus.eu/air-quality
         | & https://silam.fmi.fi/).
        
           | lgeorget wrote:
           | If a company already uses Google APIs, integrating a new API
           | from Google may be easier than integrating a new provider. So
           | for Google, there's certainly a market, even if they have to
           | source the raw data.
        
             | httpallthe wrote:
             | I get that defining an endpoint Tom all and managing a
             | token is some overhead but is it that much to manage that
             | using Google offers that much benefit? my point is that
             | this is trivial to setup
        
               | mushufasa wrote:
               | To an engineer, maybe it's trivial.
               | 
               | To a business owner, that's a whole other vendor to
               | diligence the security, privacy, terms, and, if it is
               | used at scale, negotiate a deal with.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | But if Google introduces something new, there's a strong
             | likelihood that it will be killed off in 18 months. Going
             | with a new provider that has been around longer than that
             | would be a much more logical idea.
        
               | vineyardmike wrote:
               | This is certainly true for consumer products, but it's a
               | lot less true for enterprise. Google Cloud had a few
               | missteps with product shuttering (domains?), but largely
               | google has a better track record serving enterprise
               | customers.
               | 
               | Google has to slowly build better trust among customers,
               | clearly. But "new provider" may sound like it's logically
               | obvious but the benefits of an established relationship
               | goes deep into the complexities of businesses managing
               | contracts and payment relationships. It's a huge effort
               | for random teams in big companies.
        
               | tfeldmann wrote:
               | We had a lot of trouble with the IoT Core shutdown.
        
           | is_true wrote:
           | They show the data in search results
        
       | promiseofbeans wrote:
       | No Aotearoa coverage :(
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-29 23:01 UTC)