[HN Gopher] What can historical clothing reveal that other sourc...
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       What can historical clothing reveal that other sources cannot?
        
       Author : benbreen
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2023-08-28 20:07 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.historytoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.historytoday.com)
        
       | pimlottc wrote:
       | Wikipedia has an article about the specific jacket and portrait
       | mentioned at the start, with a good photo:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Layton%27s_embroidere...
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | The V&A museum's historical clothing exhibit was my favourite
         | part of an already outstanding museum collection.
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | I recently encountered a couple articles about the Bronze Age
       | collapse. Turns out most civilizations did not contain
       | substantial quantities of both copper and tin, since they appear
       | in very different geological formations. When supply lines were
       | interrupted, everything went off the rails.
       | 
       | The provenance of the materials in an item can say a lot about
       | the geopolitical landscape at the time they were made. Status and
       | fashion tends to contain items where supply lines are a mere
       | trickle.
        
         | eesmith wrote:
         | FWIW, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse
         | says "Archaeometallurgical studies performed by various teams
         | have also shown that trade in tin, a non-local metal necessary
         | to make bronze, did not stop or decrease after 1200".
         | 
         | It lists many other possible causes.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse#Possi...
        
       | keiferski wrote:
       | History is more about political and social history, but the
       | article made me think of the concept of _qualia_ , or subjective
       | experience. I feel like clothing would be a huge resource of
       | individual experiences wearing corsets, suits of armor, togas,
       | and so on, and how they affected daily life and deeper values,
       | too.
       | 
       | There is probably a book out there that compares the Roman toga
       | to the modern business suit and then explains how that is
       | relevant to how political power "feels" today vs. in the ancient
       | world.
        
         | AnimalMuppet wrote:
         | My wife points out that wearing corsets may be related to the
         | expectation that a gentleman will pick up a dropped
         | handkerchief (or other item). The lady _can 't_ bend because of
         | the corset.
        
           | hammock wrote:
           | Lady ought not bend anyway because she's wearing a skirt and
           | may expose her ankles (or worse). At best she can squat down
           | but the ground is dirty...
        
           | neuronerdgirl wrote:
           | Codswallop. Corsets were not the restrictive garments our
           | modern mythology would have you believe. Except for a few
           | specific types of fashions, corsets throughout history were
           | designed to be well-fitting and maneuverable. Women wore
           | these garments while working - including lower class women
           | working fields, factories, and other hard jobs. Corsets were
           | effectively bras for these women, and you could absolutely
           | bend down to get your own handkerchief. These myths have been
           | well documented and debunked by the historical costuming
           | community [0-3].
           | 
           | 0 - https://youtu.be/zNwTqanp0Aw?si=3duaZETPo2IZwFqU
           | 
           | 1 - https://youtu.be/rExJskBZcW0?si=sx1oClP0avxEMUUB
           | 
           | 2 - https://youtu.be/Xpie2GL0M4I?si=HzP2g76ycNLiPCxB
           | 
           | 3 - https://youtu.be/4XBLBfWNH7I?si=Kkr7t0y9bINlWsqw
        
           | keiferski wrote:
           | For sure, there are a lot of examples like that, including
           | women's buttons being backwards (for an assistant to button
           | them, the theory goes) and a knight needing a page to help
           | put armor on. Most clothing today can be put on without any
           | help, which might be a reflection of an individualist
           | culture.
           | 
           | https://nowiknow.com/why-womens-shirts-button-backward/
        
             | hotnfresh wrote:
             | Those slim little mid-century genre paperback novels (sci
             | if, mostly) fit _suspiciously_ perfectly in blazer /suit
             | outer pockets, without even wrecking the drape. I'd say
             | they were sized--including ideal length of the work--with
             | that in mind.
             | 
             | Older Modern Library kinda works, too. Certain variants
             | (the smaller leather softcover run) are much better than
             | others, and of course many of the books are simply too
             | thick for that.
        
               | keiferski wrote:
               | A funny related story:
               | 
               |  _Sony co-founder Akio Morita desperately needed to sell
               | the company's first transistor radio - the first in Japan
               | and the second in the world. So Morita pitched it as
               | being shirt-pocket size._
               | 
               |  _The only problem was that it was slightly larger than a
               | shirt pocket, so Morita ordered several shirts with
               | abnormally large pockets for his sales force._
               | 
               | https://www.spokesman.com/stories/1995/mar/13/sony-puts-
               | big-...
        
             | mywittyname wrote:
             | I have clothing with buttons and zippers that are
             | "backwards" (online tailors will do either way). There's
             | not a huge difference one way or the other, so I don't
             | really buy into the notion that it was done because
             | servants buttoned your clothing. Proponents of this theory
             | leave out the fact that wealthy men had valets up until
             | _very_ recently. Yet valets had no apparent issues
             | buttoning their masters. If this were a class symbol, men
             | would engage in it as well.
             | 
             | If it had a reason, it was probably to distinguish "men's"
             | clothing from "women's".
        
               | throwaway7374 wrote:
               | My theory is that upper class women had much more
               | complicated clothing, with multiple layers. Some dresses
               | had buttons on the back for example,
               | 
               | A man's shirt and jacket was simpler. A man was expected
               | to be more physically active and probably needed to take
               | on/off his jacket several times a day without help.
        
         | motohagiography wrote:
         | In a former life, I wrote light articles about fashion and
         | style, but from an unspoken view that clothing was an
         | expression of how people percieved and aligned to power. We
         | have smarter models for that now in the current century than
         | the last, but fashion is still upstream of politics by a couple
         | of years, and it's a good leading indicator of who the next
         | influential-coalition will be made up of. For example, I
         | suspect the mythology of Beau Brummel's relative minimalism was
         | mainly about the rise of domestic industrial textile fortunes
         | over the colonial fur and silk trade fortunes that sustained
         | the crown and nobility.
         | 
         | Also, ask any follower of fashion, and whether they understand
         | why or not, they will tell you that a resurgence of cargo pants
         | is very concerning indeed.
        
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