[HN Gopher] Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web p...
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Tell HN: Edge has added rounded corners to all web pages
Microsoft Edge version 116.0.1938.62 has added rounded corners to
_all_ web pages, and there is no way to opt out. Edge has been
interfering with the web application experience from the start,
with unwanted hover icons and menus that cannot be disabled by the
application. (For example, if you hover over an image, you get
Visual Search and Settings icons.) Super annoying. But this latest
change takes the cake. It is ugly. If the page has a scrollbar at
document level, the web page will get rounded corner only at the
top left, not the top right, thus losing symmetry. For example, go
to CNN or Github. If the web page has dark-mode you get a
distracting white border around the page, for example on
chat.openai.com. Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser
chrome belongs to the browser, but the content area belongs to the
application alone. Edge should stay out of the content area, or at
least should allow applications to turn off unwanted buttons and
menus, thus retaining full control of the application experience.
Author : breadwinner
Score : 17 points
Date : 2023-08-27 17:47 UTC (5 hours ago)
| db48x wrote:
| That's not the rule I want browsers to follow. I want the browser
| to act as my agent, following my preferences in all things. I set
| a minimum font size, I control which fonts pages may use, I
| control when they may run scripts, when they may have videos or
| sound, what form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like,
| when they may load content from third-party domains, etc, etc.
|
| Web application developers should not complain when a web browser
| changes the look or feel of their application, even if the
| browser makes super weird choices like putting rounded corners on
| the viewport. If the user doesn't like it they'll tell the
| browser vender. The web designer doesn't get a vote.
| breadwinner wrote:
| That sounds idealistic, but not practical. Users want
| application developers to design applications for them, not use
| the browser settings to design & customize the application for
| themselves, because most users aren't designers, and even if
| they are, they don't want to spend the time.
| lolinder wrote:
| It's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt to a
| user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the law.
| Some users will change the font size because they can't see
| well, others will interact exclusively with a screen reader,
| others will need to change your colors because they're color
| blind. Still others will try to automate their tasks with
| scripts and macros.
|
| The web is the most accessible platform that exists if it's
| used right, where "used right" means embracing the fact that
| the user's browser (with all of its customizations) has
| ultimate control over the user's experience with your
| application. If you want ultimate control you want a native
| app.
| breadwinner wrote:
| > _It 's not idealistic to expect an application to adapt
| to a user's device, it's called accessibility and it's the
| law._
|
| What does that have to do with rounded corners?
| lolinder wrote:
| I'm referring to OP's list of things they change:
|
| > I want the browser to act as my agent, following my
| preferences in all things. I set a minimum font size, I
| control which fonts pages may use, I control when they
| may run scripts, when they may have videos or sound, what
| form controls (buttons, text inputs, etc) look like, when
| they may load content from third-party domains, etc, etc.
|
| Some of these are privacy considerations, but most of
| them are also accessibility-related for some people.
| Ensuring fonts are in readable ranges for a given person,
| preventing autoplay, changing form controls to stand out
| more--all of these are things that people do to
| accommodate for disabilities.
|
| This one thing that bugs you (rounded corners) is an
| aesthetic change, but the fact remains that you should
| _expect_ browsers to modify your designs to meet user
| needs. If this serves as a wakeup call to designers that
| they can 't count on pixel-perfect designs, good.
| breadwinner wrote:
| You are conflating design/aesthetic choices with
| accessibility. The browser designer is enforcing their
| aesthetic choices (which happens to be ugly and
| inconsistent) on their users. That's OK if it only
| impacts the browser chrome. If it impacts the content
| area, then the browser designer should defer to the
| application designer.
|
| > _you should expect browsers to modify your designs to
| meet user needs._
|
| As a user, I don't want browser messing with the
| application design. There is no way to turn off these
| "enhancements".
| [deleted]
| lolinder wrote:
| > There is no way to turn off these "enhancements".
|
| It sounds like there will be. In the meantime, Edge is
| not the only browser available to you, and you can always
| switch.
|
| > If it impacts the content area, then the browser
| designer should defer to the application designer.
|
| No. I want application designers to always be aware that
| their designs for web applications will be modified by
| the clients and cannot be expected to match their Figma
| sketches. Web applications are guests on the _user 's_
| computer, and if Edge having rounded corners helps drive
| that home, I'm very content with that!
| breadwinner wrote:
| If those are user's preferences then that's OK! But they
| are not. Can we all agree that having top-left corner be
| rounded, while leaving top-right corner square is just
| dumb? Can we all agree that a white border on a dark-mode
| page is stupid as heck? This is what happens when browser
| makers interfere with web application design.
| db48x wrote:
| No, I don't want to go around dividing those things into
| "accessibility" and "merely aesthetic" buckets, and then
| only allow the things in the first bucket. For one thing,
| some of them are both.
|
| I can and do apply custom style sheets to all kinds of
| web pages, which make all kinds of changes that the web
| designer might not like. Some of them improve the
| aesthetics according to my idiosyncratic preferences,
| others improve my ability to access the content. And of
| course it should go without saying that I remove all the
| ads and other nonsense too.
|
| If you are speaking as a web designer, then you don't get
| to complain about rounded corners on the viewport. Or
| about any other thing which the browser does to your
| page, even if you think of your page as an application.
|
| If you are speaking simply as a user of Edge, then you
| should complain to Microsoft if those rounded corners
| offend your sense of aesthetics. Or use a different
| browser. I recommend Firefox! Firefox is great.
| breadwinner wrote:
| Of course I get to complain about it! That's the only way
| to bring about change! If enough people complain about
| it, and I think there will be, Microsoft will fix it.
| [deleted]
| nguyenkien wrote:
| I not support what MS do, but you can actually disable all of
| this.
|
| Rounded corner: about:config search for rounded
|
| Image menu: edge://settings/appearance/hoverMenu
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| lolinder wrote:
| A screenshot and explanation of how to turn this off can be found
| here [0].
|
| > Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to
| the browser, but the content area belongs to the application
| alone.
|
| It's funny, for me this is not at all what the web is about. I
| see CSS styles as at best a suggestion for how the website would
| like to be rendered, but the browser is fundamentally a user
| agent that can render stuff however the user likes. If you don't
| like how Edge renders things, you can always switch to a
| different browser or change the settings.
|
| Web applications should be designed with this in mind: control of
| the client experience is in the hands of the user or the user's
| agent. When a web application is designed this way, it is
| natively the most accessible kind of app that can exist, usable
| with a screen reader, terminal GUI, mobile, desktop, or even a
| scriptable web driver. In contrast, web apps that obsess over
| having minute control over every detail of the presentation tend
| to be clunky, nonresponsive and inaccessible.
|
| In my mind, the more heterogeneous web browsers are, the more web
| applications are forced to handle for different configurations,
| and the better the ecosystem will be overall. For once I think
| Microsoft is doing something web-related that I actually approve
| of.
|
| [0] https://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-edge-will-let-you-
| disa...
| davorak wrote:
| > Edge is breaking this cardinal rule: Browser chrome belongs to
| the browser, but the content area belongs to the application
| alone.
|
| I think the end user should have 100% control or access to it. I
| do not think this would be an issue if this was a niche browser
| that the user needs to seek out. Or if browser usage was spread
| across tens of browsers instead of 2-3 or some other form of
| highly competitive market with users willing to switch at a
| moments notice.
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(page generated 2023-08-27 23:01 UTC)