[HN Gopher] Newly discovered black hole 'speed limit' hints at n...
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       Newly discovered black hole 'speed limit' hints at new laws of
       physics
        
       Author : perihelions
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2023-08-26 13:28 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.livescience.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.livescience.com)
        
       | falcrist wrote:
       | AFAIK, Gravitational waves are out first method of "seeing" the
       | universe that isn't just capturing incoming photons from the
       | object under observation. The only exception is neutrino
       | detectors, which have hilariously bad resolution.
       | 
       | It seems reasonable to expect new phenomena to be uncovered this
       | way.
       | 
       | This seems like a good example of that.
        
         | borissk wrote:
         | Also neutrino detectors and gravitational wave detectors allow
         | to observe the very early universe. Until something like 300K
         | years after the Big Bang the universe was too hot for atoms to
         | form and so it was full of particles that block light. But the
         | universe became clear for neutrinos a lot earlier and for
         | gravitational waves even earlier (think it's milliseconds past
         | the Big Bang).
        
         | _Microft wrote:
         | These methods also allow to observe the same event in different
         | ways. This is known as "multi-messenger astronomy":
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-messenger_astronomy
        
       | lisper wrote:
       | This title is seriously misleading. There are no "new laws of
       | physics here", just old laws (GR) applied to new regimes (black
       | hole collisions).
        
         | borissk wrote:
         | Think I read somewhere that the GR prediction on the speed of
         | the colliding black holes doesn't match the observations from
         | LIGO.
        
       | bowsamic wrote:
       | Very interesting. I did not imagine that there would be a
       | theoretical maximum on the recoil velocity of such a collision
       | below the speed of light, and I definitely didn't expect it to be
       | so much smaller than the speed of light
        
         | borissk wrote:
         | I guess the maximum comes from the gravity's inability to keep
         | them together, when their relative speed gets too high.
        
       | largbae wrote:
       | The article seems to claim a speed limit of 0.1c for matter...
       | but isn't this already disproven by the speeds reached in our
       | particle accelerators?
        
         | gliptic wrote:
         | It's not a "speed limit of 0.1c for matter". This limit would
         | apply to the scenario they investigated -- colliding black
         | holes where the spacetime is massively affected by the mass and
         | movement of the black holes.
        
           | borissk wrote:
           | And this extreme scenario is where probably any errors in GR
           | can be observed, as quantum gravitational effects will become
           | visible.
        
             | bowsamic wrote:
             | No, GR is expected to work fine in this regime since there
             | is no expectation of any quantum effects.
             | 
             | A quantum theory of gravity is only needed when we expect
             | there to be significant quantum effects, for example maybe
             | in a neutron star and definitely in situations where our
             | measurement results depend on a superposition of
             | "spacetimes". The reason we don't have a consensus on a
             | quantum theory of gravity yet is that gravity is so weak
             | that it's usually only detectable in situations that
             | involve huge amounts of matter, and it's very rare to have
             | huge amounts of matter together and still have the system
             | behave in a way that requires quantum mechanics to describe
             | it
        
         | changoplatanero wrote:
         | It's not talking about the maximum speed of matter under any
         | conditions. It's just calculating the maximum speed of a black
         | hole when it merges with another one
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-26 23:02 UTC)