[HN Gopher] UBC device uses wood dust to trap up to 99.9 per cen...
___________________________________________________________________
UBC device uses wood dust to trap up to 99.9 per cent of
microplastics in water
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 150 points
Date : 2023-08-25 16:42 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.ubc.ca)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.ubc.ca)
| mrweiner wrote:
| Anybody want to drop in and burst my bubble? This sounds very
| promising!
| hammock wrote:
| How does it perform in the real world, where water is
| contaminated with far more than microplastic - is this filter
| selective for plastic or will it get gummed up by literally
| anything?
|
| Is the solution scalable? What does it cost?
| EGreg wrote:
| Hmm, well done sir
|
| That bubble never had a chance!
|
| There have been similar issues with this promising approach:
| https://www.freethink.com/environment/plastic-eating-
| bacteri...
|
| Personally I often wonder why things like the seaweed for
| cows that reduces methane emissions by 99% is not everywhere
| by now, and we are resorting to masks to trap gases from
| their breathing and farts.
| ComputerGuru wrote:
| I don't know how much you know about water filtration plants,
| but in the real world everything is a series of filters, each
| more fine-grained than the one before it. You would never use
| this on unfiltered ocean or waste water - it would be yet-
| another-stage in the filtration pipeline, after many of the
| others and possibly before a few more.
| im3w1l wrote:
| Sure. This will be a possible add on to home water filtering
| solutions for paranoid stay at home moms but will not be used
| at a large scale. Lakes and seas will get filled with more and
| more microplastics which will enter the foodchain from there.
| baron816 wrote:
| Even if this doesn't go anywhere (due to economics or funding
| or red tape or whatever), the best parts of this is we know
| people are actually working to resolve this issue and are
| making progress.
| orblivion wrote:
| Sure, it works in vitro. Call me when it's in vivo!
| Exuma wrote:
| I was wondering this literally yesterday... are there any current
| methods for filtering out microplastics? Currently I just have a
| filter within my fridge for drinking water... but I take it that
| doesnt do much
| gpt5 wrote:
| The simple carbon filter in your fridge should suffice. Sub
| micron microplastic (nanoplastics) have not been detected yet,
| and their sustained existence remains speculative.
|
| If you are still worried, just install a reverse osmosis
| system. It also has the benefit of filtering away sub-nanometer
| particles that are actually proven to have negative health
| effects (such as heavy metals and bacteria).
| oever wrote:
| When microplastics break down they get smaller and become
| nanoplastics.
|
| Nanoplastics have been detected.
|
| Here is a paper that shows how to measure nanoplastics.
| Dilute solutions with polystyrene particles from 400nm down
| to 40nm were prepared and measured.
|
| Demineralized water was put in a polystyrene cup.
| Microplastics were removed and the remaining nanoplastics
| were measured. A concentration of ~10^12 particles/l was
| found.
|
| https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/en/d0en0.
| ..
| gpt5 wrote:
| They've been detected in a synthetic lab condition, but not
| in the wild.
| onion2k wrote:
| It'd be a bit weird if they _weren 't_ in the wild
| though, wouldn't it?
| oever wrote:
| In the paper, the nanoplastics were measured in
| demineralized water that had been sitting in a regular
| disposable polystyrene cup (like the ones that people
| drink coffee from) for five minutes.
|
| So the measurement reflects the nanoplastics that one
| ingests when drinking a cup of coffee from a polystyrene
| cup.
|
| Because nanoplastics sizes are of the order of the
| wavelength of visible light, the particles were measured
| with fluorescence microscopy.
|
| Nanoplastics were also found in high concentrations in
| store bought plastic bottles of mineral water as well as
| in water that had been sitting in baby bottles.
| Modified3019 wrote:
| One thing to be aware of, is some filters system have been
| found to introduce microplastics. I think it's primarily the
| container/piping that does this, but it's been a long while
| since I've looked at things. It's not unreasonable to consider
| the filter housing also as a source.
| soligern wrote:
| I have a reverse osmosis system for my well water that filters
| out both PFAS and micro plastics.
| canadianfella wrote:
| [dead]
| hosh wrote:
| There is a researcher named John Todd whose work has been able to
| break down DDT in a matter of weeks.
|
| In this video, he gives a talk about some various projects. In
| the first one, he uses these methods to clean up a site
| contaminated with the top 15 pollutants (at least at the time).
| Heavy metal were sequestered by algea; 14 of the 15 toxins were
| below detectable levels, and the 15th was reduced by 99.999%;
| solids were eaten by armored carp. The output is drinking
| standard water, and it takes 10 days for the contaminated water
| to flow through the system.
|
| The key design principle is putting many species across all five
| kingdoms, from different biomes, and they start self-organizing
| around the pollutants. The resulting communities break down the
| pollutant, but are all new.
|
| https://youtu.be/SeQotnmhO5I
|
| In a different interview, he talks about microplastics -- and
| while he has not worked on it, he believes a solution can be
| found in incorporating all five kingdoms. So not just
| sequestering them, but breaking them down so they can be useful
| in the ecosystem again.
| jdeibele wrote:
| I've never heard of armored carp. Googling for it leads to info
| on Breath of the Wild or Zelda Tears of the Kingdom.
|
| Finally, 35 or 45 entries down I found a reference to an
| armored catfish. https://a-z-animals.com/animals/armored-
| catfish/pictures/ I hadn't heard of that, either, but I wonder
| if that's what you mean.
| hosh wrote:
| I have no idea. It was mentioned in the video I linked.
| oever wrote:
| The video referenced armored _catfish_. There are multiple
| species known as armored catfish.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armored_catfish
| bertil wrote:
| I should probably watch the video, but does he mention anything
| about dioxin? This has been the main source of pain for my
| father and his colleagues building sea food farms.
| hosh wrote:
| He didn't talk about any specific toxin by name. It is only a
| 24 min talk.
|
| It can be tested though through this system though. The last
| project had not been deployed at the time of this video
| (2016), but it was a proposal for a design for marinas. Here,
| he and his colleagues are thinking of smaller, distributed
| system (miniaturized eco-machines deployed at each dock). He
| has also experimented with floating systems in rivers, and
| the Four Season resort system deployed in Hawaii works to
| cleanup saltwater.
|
| With farms -- like any farm, on land or on sea -- looking at
| it as an ecosystem which yields something useful as a
| byproduct (rather than a system that maximizes extraction)
| tends to result in a system that is more resilient. That is,
| the commercial product is a useful byproduct of restoring the
| ecosystem. Todd's eco-machine adds additional ecosystems to
| assist the ecosystem you are trying to restore.
| orangepurple wrote:
| That video changed my life
| hosh wrote:
| If you ever feel comfortable sharing that story, I'm
| interested in hearing it.
|
| For me, I came across John Todd's work from the podcast,
| Permaculture for the Future. It was part of a much larger
| toolkit and solutions we already have for healing our land
| and our home. Since deep diving into all of that, I don't
| feel like I am drowning in what looks like the slow
| destruction of Earth, even as we are seeing more and more
| extreme weather events.
| esafak wrote:
| Looks like an unsung hero:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Todd_(Canadian_biologist)
|
| Are his books good? If so I'll order a copy of _Healing Earth_
| for the library.
| hosh wrote:
| One of the books I tried reading, reads like something non-
| scientific with a liberal sprinkling of mysticism. I
| personally don't mind that, but it overshadows the science
| for people coming in from that way. It's why I looked for
| talks that sounds more structured and coming from scientific
| principles.
|
| This is a different video. If you know what it is going on,
| it's interesting. It makes for a poor introduction to his
| work, let alone the significance:
| https://youtu.be/8_bxxUub9HU
|
| Tldr: branding sucks, and it's a shame more people don't know
| what he and his colleagues have been up to.
| changoplatanero wrote:
| I guess it's not possible to design a tea bag that's not made out
| of plastic but that can also survive the boiling hot
| temperatures?
| joker_minmax wrote:
| Just transfer your tea out of the plastic tea sachets into a
| cotton filter. Coffee filter or they make small ones for loose
| leaf tea.
| endisneigh wrote:
| believe it or not but it's OK to consume the tea leaves and
| drink slightly bitter tea ;). if you accept this the solution
| is just not to have tea bags at all. brew with the leaves and
| drink immediately, and if you forget, enjoy your bitterer tea!
| rockinghigh wrote:
| You can also use a stainless steel infuser.
| hammock wrote:
| I eat kiwi skins too. The amount of pesticides used to grow
| them though means it's probably not the best idea
| dylan604 wrote:
| wow, my mouth just reacted in a not pleasant way just from
| reading that.
| ljf wrote:
| I LOVE kiwi with the skin on. I rub the fruit against my
| jeans or a tea towel first, then just eat like a pear.
| Really adds to the whole flavour (like how eating a pealed
| apple is nice, but a whole apple can be better.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| You can also get a re-usable metal mesh infuser.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| It's definitely possible, many tea bags do not contain
| plastics, and are instead made of cotton, hemp, or other non-
| hazardous materials.
| hammock wrote:
| Most tea bags are made of Manila Hemp (a banana plant). Many
| have a heat-sealable thermoplastic such as PVC or
| polypropylene on the inner tea bag surface as well, that you
| never feel or hear about
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| There are some survey reports on this out there that I have
| seen. It is common for more expensive teas, and ones
| labeled "organic" to be plant fibers only, but there are
| exceptions. If you want to figure it out on your own, you
| can take an empty teabag, briefly set it on fire and blow
| it out, then smell the smoke. Personally, I usually pour
| the contents into my cup or tea pot and throw out the
| teabag.
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=which+tea+bags+contain+plas
| t...
| adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
| what you want here is loose leaf tea
| morsch wrote:
| Plastic tea bags are rare in Germany, although they are getting
| more popular. Tea bags are usually paper, apparently made from
| this plant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abac%C3%A1
| nom wrote:
| Oh interesting, didn't know that! Interesting fiber. I always
| wondered why tee bags are so robust when wet. They feel so
| different too.
|
| Also TIL: Manila hemp.. Manila envelope.. jupp, they were
| also made from that fiber up until some time ago.
| ComputerGuru wrote:
| No, that's very possible. The problem is our obsession with
| making everything single-serve and disposable. I think this is
| what you are looking for:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/s?k=stainless+steel+tea+infuser+ball
| wilg wrote:
| It's an obsession with convenience, which doesn't have to
| mean single-serve or disposable. Loose leaf tea is slightly
| less convenient. It's very hard to argue with people to give
| up convenience, but if you can figure out how to make loose-
| leaf tea easier than bags I think people will do it.
|
| Also, there are some cost and shelf life concerns:
| https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/a-steep-dilemma-tea-
| ba...
|
| Also, apparently here's some stats about loose-leaf vs bagged
| tea: https://www.statista.com/forecasts/1093592/preference-
| for-te...
| silisili wrote:
| You can even get them built in to a nice little pot. I had
| this one for a while
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01LZSA84J
| kube-system wrote:
| I rarely see plastic tea bags here in the US (outside of
| Starbucks). Most use filter paper.
| HyprMusic wrote:
| It's the same in the UK but those filter paper looking ones
| actually used to contain small amounts of plastic.
|
| I believe most have transitioned away now... or, at least,
| the only brand that matters if you're British has
| transitioned[0]
|
| [0] https://www.yorkshiretea.co.uk/brew-news/plastic-in-tea-
| bags...
| [deleted]
| eric-hu wrote:
| A Gaiwan is one traditional Chinese way of making tea, but
| those words are literally "covered bowl". If you don't want to
| buy one, you could makeshift your own: brew loose leaf tea in a
| cup or bowl and pour it into your drinking cup using a small
| plate.
| permo-w wrote:
| are tea bags even necessary? people managed drinking tea before
| plastic was invented
| mrob wrote:
| Environmental cost of using and washing a teapot is likely
| higher than that of using a teabag and brewing directly in
| the cup.
| permo-w wrote:
| that seems extremely unlikely
| mrob wrote:
| I just weighed an empty teabag: 0.19g. I think it's
| highly likely that less than a gram of mass-produced
| paper has lower environmental cost than is needed to
| clean a whole teapot. You need hot water, and detergent,
| and the teapots are cleaned individually, so you have the
| overhead of heating intermittently used pipes etc.
| Teabags are a mature technology where production
| efficiency is highly optimized.
| permo-w wrote:
| you need hot water or detergent, not both, and as another
| commenter mentioned, you don't need to wash the pot
| anyway. you're sterilising the thing every time you use
| it
|
| teabags may well be a mature optimised technology, but
| they're releasing microplastics and that's worse than
| using 0.000% more energy, if you even are, which I doubt,
| when you factor in the additional weight required for
| transporting the bags, the transport of the wood for the
| paper, etc etc etc.
|
| also, highly optimised does not mean highly optimised for
| the environment. where in Europe and parts of the America
| your energy supply may well be up to 40 or 50% renewables
| these days, or higher, you can be sure it isn't in the
| developing country your teabag was manufactured in. plus
| fumes, plus whatever land they stripped to plant the
| trees for the paper, if they're not cutting down old
| growth in the first place
| tehjoker wrote:
| why do you need hot water?
| mrob wrote:
| Because it's far more effective at cleaning than cold
| water.
| morsch wrote:
| I think it's a rounding error either way, but our pot for
| black tea only gets rinsed (usually cold), and our pot
| for herbal teas occasionally gets put inside the
| dishwasher. Not sure why you think teapots need to be
| washed individually.
|
| I assume the environmental cost is dominated by other
| factors that apply in both cases: growing the plant,
| transporting the product, heating water to boiling
| temperatures.
| ovalite wrote:
| Metal tea balls are also available to brew tea.
| speed_spread wrote:
| If you're washing your teapot, you're doing it wrong. A
| light rinse is enough. Over time a patina will build up on
| the inner walls of the pot, some say this makes the tea
| better.
| prophesi wrote:
| I haven't reached this level yet, but I know people that
| have yixing clay teapots that are dedicated exclusively
| to a certain type of tea. The brew they get from their
| aged pu'erh tea gets better over time in that teapot with
| use.
| erikcw wrote:
| Perhaps as a profit center to the tea industry. Most tea bags
| contain the grades of tea that can't be sold in the more
| expensive loose leaf form. Basically leaf fragments and dust.
| That material would otherwise be a waste product.
| Etheryte wrote:
| Tea bags used to be made of fabrics such as cotton, silk, etc,
| it's not like we don't know how to make them without plastic.
| guyzero wrote:
| They're still frequently made out of paper.
| hedora wrote:
| On a related note, today's paper straws are apparently covered
| in PFAS, even though paper straws existed way before plastic
| was commonly used.
|
| I assume you could just coat the straw in food grade wax, but
| for some reason that's not commonly done.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I can only imagine food grade wax being way more expensive
| than PFAS type chemicals. Probably easier to apply as well.
| Just thinking of all the "reasons" companies would state as
| to why they justify poisoning us all.
| jacquesm wrote:
| PFAS will potentially put 3M out of business just like
| talcum powder did to J&J.
| WJW wrote:
| J&J still exists and will continue to exist though? They
| settled for some 9 billion, which is a lot but not enough
| to sink a company with a ~400 billion market cap.
| jacquesm wrote:
| 400 billion market cap companies do not usually have 400
| billion in liquidity laying around. And after the first
| bankruptcy there may now well be a second:
|
| https://www.reuters.com/legal/jj-effort-resolve-talc-
| lawsuit...
| WJW wrote:
| As I understand it that link describes a plan to use the
| bankruptcy of a _subsidiary_ (NOT the main company) as a
| way to resolve the court cases in one go. The subsidiary
| is funded with enough money to pay the expected
| settlements (with the parent company guaranteeing any
| shortfalls) and bankruptcy is used here as a legal tool
| rather than a "we are out of money" point. Matt Levine
| had a great section about this in his newsletter but I
| cannot find an un-paywalled link to that atm. It's the
| one from Jan 31 if you are subscribed.
|
| According to their latest annual report
| (https://www.investor.jnj.com/asm/2022-annual-report,
| page 45), they had some 14.4 billion in "cash and cash
| equivalents" at the start of this year. Their net debt
| position was 16.1 billion on Jan 1 2023 (page 46 of the
| same report), up from 2.1 billion the year before due to
| an acquisition so there is likely quite some room to take
| on additional debt. Total net earnings for 2022 were just
| below 18 billion. Paying a 9 billion USD settlement will
| be painful for sure, but even double that would be just a
| single years' worth of profit. J&J is extremely likely to
| survive this problem IMO.
| jacquesm wrote:
| That subsidiary is just a legal trick. And this is
| exactly what J&J want you to believe.
|
| https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2022/10/20/the-texas-two-
| step-a...
| bertil wrote:
| My understanding is that all the covers of fast food (fries
| holder, hamburger wrapper, inside of paper soda cup) are also
| covered in PFAS -- so far disposable coffee cups. Anything
| "paper" that is in contact with food, really.
|
| Except for the traditional British fish-and-chips newspaper,
| but that one should have traditional lead-based ink for
| flavour.
| guyzero wrote:
| Cheaper tea bags are made out of paper and they work just fine.
| Tetley, for instance.
| HyprMusic wrote:
| Sadly they still contain plastic to seal them:
|
| "We've worked hard to ensure that our tea bags are 99% bio
| degradable. However, as a result of the manufacturing
| process, Tetley tea bags do contain a very small amount of
| plastic to ensure the bags remain closed for you to enjoy
| your cup of tea."
|
| https://www.tetley.co.uk/frequently-asked-questions
| ptx wrote:
| I just had a look at two of my non-Tetley teabags. They
| appear to be stitched closed with the end of the string.
| Why does it need plastic?
|
| Edit: The quote from the FAQ mentions the bags being
| biodegradable, and this page [1] about their "new
| biodegradable bags" shows a photo of bags without strings.
| So maybe it's just these stringless (and presumably cheaper
| to manufacture?) bags that contain plastic?
|
| The Twinings FAQ [2] doesn't mention plastic: "Our teabags
| are biodegradable, plant-based teabags and will break down
| within 6 months if placed into a local authority compost
| caddy, though it may not compost as quickly if left in
| garden compost (as typically these are not sufficiently
| hot)."
|
| [1] https://www.tetley.co.uk/sustainability/product-and-
| packagin...
|
| [2] https://twinings.co.uk/pages/faqs
| ricardobeat wrote:
| What? Tea bags were made of cotton and paper decades before
| plastic came about. Plastic was likely introduced to lower
| costs and extend shelf life.
| joker_minmax wrote:
| I feel like we keep hearing about technologies like this that are
| going to change the world but none of them ever actually get
| implemented... just me?
| interroboink wrote:
| Not just you. Just sensationalist headlines (:
|
| See also the dramatic groundbreaking new battery technologies
| that have keep getting reported for the last 30+ years. [1]
|
| Not only is there a long lead time between proof-of-concept and
| scalable production even in the best case, but frequently these
| nascent technologies have serious drawbacks that aren't
| mentioned in the article.
|
| [1] "Revolutionary battery checklist":
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28025930
|
| also: https://xkcd.com/882/ and https://www.smbc-
| comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1623
| petre wrote:
| If it's just tech, it's always too expensive, it has to be
| bacteria or alage or some other bio stuff that multiplies by
| itself to be useful.
| justrealist wrote:
| I mean, this is like the moon landing -- private companies can
| build the technology, but it's not going to get deployed at
| scale unless a government sponsors it, because there's not a
| clear path to profit.
|
| And like, is congress going to spend $10B deploying this at
| scale? That would be great, but they can't even pass a budget.
| 0xcde4c3db wrote:
| As with just about everything else, it's a whole lot easier to
| build a proof-of-concept prototype than it is to solve the
| problem at scale. New technologies often have either inherent
| limitations that make it infeasible for them to scale up (e.g.
| use of fragile or hard-to-manufacture materials, square-cube
| issues, outsized cleaning/maintenance requirements) or would
| simply have a staggering cost at any scale that makes a
| practical difference.
| hosh wrote:
| There are already stuff like this that has been deployed - John
| Todd's Eco-Machines: https://youtu.be/SeQotnmhO5I
|
| These projects have not made it to the media, but they are
| there. We're talking about EPA-funded works, and other sites
| around the world.
|
| The guy designing and deploying says it is simple enough that
| students can construct a small scale version.
| feedsmgmt wrote:
| "business people" will pretty much only allocate resources to
| endeavors that are financially profitable for themselves and
| these same people quite often provide financial incentives to
| politicians who promise to advocate for policies that result in
| additional profitability for the business people regardless of
| the environmental or social consequences. Those elected
| politicians need to be replaced and the capacity for the
| "business people" to influence elected officials with financial
| contributions should be limited and involve mandatory
| transparency. No more unlimited dark money pools.
| konschubert wrote:
| the above solution is silly expensive.
|
| Expensive doesn't mean that somebody is greedy, it means that
| it takes a lot of effort from a lot of people - effort that
| could probably be spent more effectively.
| loa_in_ wrote:
| Equating expensive with valuable, while very much in line
| with rules coming from Economics 101, is very questionable
| in real life in my experience.
| welder wrote:
| Did anyone else misread the title? "USB-C [electrical] device
| uses wood dust to trap [...] [sic]"
|
| IMO the title could do without "UBC".
| post-it wrote:
| Granted, it's a UBC promo piece.
| swsdsailor wrote:
| I wonder if we could build a huge floating "island of plants" in
| the great pacific garbage patch?
| bell-cot wrote:
| This method is for microplastics. The garbage patch is not
| _micro_ plastics.
| __float wrote:
| I thought most "garbage patches" in the ocean _were_ actually
| made up mostly of microplastics.
|
| I can't find a _great_ source for this now, but a quick
| Google gave
| https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-
| paci... which says:
|
| > Even satellite imagery doesn't show a giant patch of
| garbage. The microplastics of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch
| can simply make the water look like a cloudy soup. This soup
| is intermixed with larger items, such as fishing gear and
| shoes.
| sva_ wrote:
| Probably slowly breaking down into microplastics though
| hammock wrote:
| "For many people, the idea of a 'garbage patch' conjures up
| images of an island of trash floating on the ocean. In
| reality, these patches are almost entirely made up of tiny
| bits of plastic, called microplastics. Microplastics can't
| always be seen by the naked eye. Even satellite imagery
| doesn't show a giant patch of garbage. The microplastics of
| the Great Pacific Garbage Patch can simply make the water
| look like a cloudy soup. This soup is intermixed with larger
| items, such as fishing gear and shoes.
|
| "The seafloor beneath the Great Pacific Garbage Patch may
| also be an underwater trash heap. Oceanographers and
| ecologists recently discovered that about 70 percent of
| marine debris actually sinks to the bottom of the ocean"
| (https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-
| paci...)
| sva_ wrote:
| You should link the source if you're quoting stuff. (Posted
| below:
| https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-
| paci...)
| soperj wrote:
| They probably didn't know that ChatGTP was just taking
| stuff wholesale from nationalgeographic.
| jjulius wrote:
| This entire comment, FYI, is copy-pasted from this[0].
|
| [0]https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-
| paci...
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| soperj wrote:
| I like how we all now know that microplastics and PFAS seriously
| contaminate our water sources, but there's no real thought about
| things like nanotubes doing the same thing. Wonder what consuming
| carbon nanotubes might do to us.
| userbinator wrote:
| Probably nothing, just like microplastics.
| nicup12345689 wrote:
| Not the same but some people have experimented with C60
| spheres. Apparently it is either very good or it increases ROS
| reactive oxygen species depending on who you ask and how it is
| prepared
| hosh wrote:
| Unless there is something special about carbon chains,
| ingesting them is probably like ingesting activated carbon.
| Ingested activated carbon is part of a treatment for poison.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activated_carbon
|
| Inhaling it though, is a really bad idea.
| sp332 wrote:
| Well yeah it's a whole different shape (very pointy and can
| penetrate or shred cell membranes), and the electrical
| properties of graphene can be pretty weird.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| kthejoker2 wrote:
| Can we not make it a requirement for all of these solutions to
| provide a small infobox about how much the prototype costs, how
| long it took to build, and some sort of scalability / feasibility
| index?
|
| Anything can work at a small enough scale with enough budget and
| time.
| userbinator wrote:
| Is this going to be a useful method of recycling?
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-08-25 23:01 UTC)