[HN Gopher] How to drill your own water well
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How to drill your own water well
        
       Author : jacobmarble
       Score  : 290 points
       Date   : 2023-08-25 03:06 UTC (19 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (drillyourownwell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (drillyourownwell.com)
        
       | jplona wrote:
       | For folks interested in the standard process, I highly recommend
       | this channel: https://youtube.com/@h2omechanic. Very informative.
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | "Mother Earth News" is a good resource:
       | 
       | (1984) https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-
       | livestock/d...
       | 
       | > Some people ... got their rig stuck three different times in
       | their first well! As they wrote, "We recognize that many of our
       | problems are due to our inexperience .... But our inexperience is
       | not much different from yours."
       | 
       | They have many other articles on the subject; but I'm fond of
       | linking to this one in particular.
       | 
       | I helped dig that well. And several others. The fellow in the
       | middle of the picture there is my dad.
       | 
       | Using the gantry rig pictured in the article was much easier than
       | just the engine unit (much like a post hole digger they sell in
       | stores now). One of our crew was a gifted machinist who ran that
       | up after we bent the several pipes trying to dig without bracing.
        
         | athenot wrote:
         | Thanks for posting this; I have Georgia granite under my feet
         | in random and unpredictable quantities. I've noticed most of
         | the "success stories" in the submitted article happen to be in
         | sandy areas, or with softer ground.
        
           | yencabulator wrote:
           | Over here it's sand, sandstone & clay, but I can't even dig a
           | big enough hole to plant a bush without hitting rocks the
           | size of my head. To anyone wishing to drill into the ground
           | like this, good luck!
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | > Orville and Dot Synoground of Pine Mountain, Georgia, drilled
         | through 35 feet of solid granite with a Hydra-Drill and a
         | diamond coring bit. They hit the rock layer at 18 feet and kept
         | drilling -- cutting about six inches of granite an hour --
         | until they broke through. After three solid weeks of work,
         | Orville and Dot struck water at 165 feet.
         | 
         | I honestly don't think I'd have that level of determination
         | unless I was truly desperate.
        
           | h2odragon wrote:
           | we were "back to the land" hippies (and had the monthly
           | newspaper targeted toward people like us)... "self reliance"
           | was a goal for many, as well as "can't afford to pay
           | professionals to do it."
        
       | pravus wrote:
       | This is interesting. Part of my life was working with a water
       | well driller running a rig for my grand-father's business a long
       | time ago. The technique is virtually identical but with a
       | hydraulic lift for running the drill and uses compressed air to
       | clear the bore.
       | 
       | The first step was to find the location and park the drilling rig
       | so it wouldn't sink once the well was dug. Then you'd raise the
       | drill arm, attach a section of pipe and the drill head. You'd
       | lower it down into a round flange that had an opening to one side
       | where all of the cuttings blew out. My job was to shovel the
       | cuttings into a trench to direct water flow once you hit the
       | water line. It was critical to keep water from getting under the
       | tires of the rig.
       | 
       | Each section of pipe is 20 feet long and as you drill in you
       | detach the rig head, raise it, get another section of pipe from a
       | rotating carousel and then start grinding again. Once done you
       | pull all the pipe by basically doing the reverse and then perform
       | a similar operation to push casing down into the hole. When the
       | rig pulls away you have a round hole in the ground ready to have
       | another truck come in to insert an electric pump with all the
       | wiring. Then you box everything up at the top and say job done.
       | 
       | Oil field drilling is pretty similar as well but the rigs are
       | vastly larger and move way more earth much faster. My dad worked
       | on a rough necking crew and I've been exposed to the oil and gas
       | industry most of my life so this is an interesting tangent.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | Curiously, you have to already have water
        
         | kozak wrote:
         | I suppose you use a gasoline water pump if you don't. Unless
         | you are in a desert, of course.
        
       | kuon wrote:
       | I live in Switzerland and my house is build on a rock, some of
       | the foundation is actually rock and not concrete but it's old
       | from 1750. So that drilling technique is not for my yard.
       | 
       | But, this lead me to think, is non rock ground frequent in
       | urbanized area? Is rock ground like my place more like the
       | exception? I'm used to it so I thought it was the norm, but I
       | guess it is not.
        
       | naikrovek wrote:
       | never in my life have I read a more positive landing page about
       | drilling your own well.
       | 
       | this guy has me convinced that i can drill my own well.
       | 
       | i don't need to drill my own well, but if i ever do, i am sure
       | that i can do it, now.
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | The house I live in has a well. 400 feet deep (why? long story).
       | 
       | The thing to be aware of is that there's a few different kinds of
       | additives you might need for well water.
       | 
       | The most usual is water softener. Ours isn't too hard, but what
       | we do have is hydrogen sulphate from bacteria in the soil - it
       | requires hydrogen peroxide to make the water smell neutral and
       | palatable.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | Water softeners are common, but they are regional. In some
         | places the ground water is naturally soft and you don't need
         | one. In others you need them. One house I lived in you needed
         | an iron filter, but most people have never heard of such a
         | thing There are lots of other devices in the water treatment
         | catalog that you might or might not need. Only a real water
         | test can tell.
        
         | SteveNuts wrote:
         | Where do you add that? into the water softener?
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | There's a pump which feeds into the water softener tank. We
           | don't use softener, so peroxide is the only thing which goes
           | into it.
           | 
           | To the other guy - we drink the well water. It's fine after
           | the peroxide treatment.
        
         | kylebenzle wrote:
         | Why do you need any conditioning for irrigation water?
        
           | adrianN wrote:
           | You might ruin your soil over time.
        
         | technothrasher wrote:
         | I had an issue with hydrogen sulfide bacteria in my well water
         | system. If I didn't run any water for a couple days (like, say,
         | I went away for the weekend), I'd get a terrible sulfur smell
         | to my water. When my well pump failed, I took the opportunity
         | while the well head was off to dump a bunch of bleach down the
         | well. Haven't had a problem in years now.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | Interesting! I had wondered if that would be viable.
        
       | BrandoElFollito wrote:
       | In my days of fighting paranormal activities and beliefs
       | (homeopathy, wells witchers, ...) we were usually told that we do
       | not have open minds and do not accept anything outside of our
       | limited science.
       | 
       | For one, you need to have an open mind, but be careful to not
       | your brain fall off
       | (https://youtu.be/RFO6ZhUW38w?si=1Snzh3lhFJ6d381g&t=12)
       | 
       | Then, we were very much interested in seeing these unusual things
       | happening. As I mentioned it in a previous comment, I declared at
       | the radio that I would immediately switch my PhD topic (in
       | physics) to study them. Because, you know, Nobel prize. I did not
       | get to see anything unusual, did a uneventful PhD and, well, do
       | not have said Nobel prize.
       | 
       | But the important thing was: I wanted to measure. To have an
       | experiment where what was unusual would be measurable. This means
       | that tests with well diggers were a complete failure when they
       | were asked to find water in controlled conditions.
       | 
       | OTOH, they were good when in the wild because (probably) they
       | could read the landscape and see signs of water (conscientiously
       | or not).
       | 
       | Same with homeopathy: when I have a headache I get an aspirin and
       | before it had time to reach my stomach I feel better. I also once
       | swam away from what I thought were sharks and I probably broke a
       | swimming record because my arms were moving like a blender.
       | 
       | This is to say that scientists do not limi themselves - they just
       | want to see and measure something to say that this is a thing.
       | Unfortunately as soon as they do it the whole paranormal things
       | fall apart. But we are still hoping.
        
       | praptak wrote:
       | In Poland it's quite common for people to just hand dig their
       | wells, using concrete rings for the reinforcement of walls. It's
       | legal up to 30 meters depth and up to 5 m^3/day water yield.
       | 
       | Article (in Polish but there's pics):
       | https://darmowyporadnik.pl/artykul/36/budownictwo/kopanie-st...
       | 
       | Edit: Or maybe I should say "it was" - most new wells are just a
       | vertical steel pipe with a submerged electric pump rather than
       | big concrete rings. These are obviously much more convenient and
       | safer.
        
         | jeffrallen wrote:
         | The first week I came to live in Guatemala from the USA 3
         | brothers from a nearby village dies of asphyxiation at the
         | bottom of a hand dug well which had a generator running too
         | close up above.
         | 
         | Don't risk it. Confined spaces are dangerous.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | I have a large well for my water (machine bored - wells here
           | have terrible recovery), when the pump went out a few years
           | back I looked down the hole and decided no way will I climb
           | down there. I bought a pump and used hoses and extension
           | cords to lower it into the well from above, then a week
           | latter hired someone to come out and do the proper install.
           | They had the proper safety gear so they couldn't fall down
           | the hole. More importantly they knew how to use the - I know
           | where to buy the gear, but that is one case where improper
           | usage will kill you before you find out you were wrong.
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | This is terrible, but the same thing can happen in a
           | basement, and even has happened in low laying areas of land.
           | 
           | Would you suggest we stop digging basements?
           | 
           | There are far more issues with just walking outside,
           | lightning strikes hitting people, are more common.
        
             | jeffrallen wrote:
             | I'm going to declare a new law, a la Bettredge's Law: "When
             | a small probability is claimed, without evidence, to be
             | less than that of death by lightening strikes, it is safe
             | to assume the small probability is in fact higher than the
             | risk of death by lightening strikes".
             | 
             | Find me the evidence and I'll admit that my new law is
             | invalid. :)
        
               | InitialLastName wrote:
               | I don't need evidence to know that the odds of casualties
               | falling into a modern well (that is a few inches in
               | diameter) such as the one being drilled here are less
               | than being hit by lightning (assuming lightning is
               | possible).
               | 
               | I won't rule out the possibility of an ankle sprain.
        
             | praptak wrote:
             | The biggest risk of construction comes from handling the
             | concrete rings. I haven't heard of a suffocation accident.
             | These are much more common when people maintain their
             | sanitation tanks.
        
           | praptak wrote:
           | I think it will solve itself as people move to steel pipes
           | which are generally less labor intensive to drill. They also
           | eliminate the danger of falling into the well.
        
           | msrenee wrote:
           | These wells are a few inches across. There's no risk of
           | falling in.
        
             | nemetroid wrote:
             | You are responding in a comment chain about hand-dug wells
             | in Poland, which are significantly wider.
        
         | beardedwalleye wrote:
         | That's >1300 US Gallons, which is a little more than what we
         | use in a week as a family of 5.
        
           | faangguyindia wrote:
           | My family of 4 uses
           | 
           | 500 gallons of water here in Himalayan foothills.
        
             | erlenmayer wrote:
             | [dead]
        
           | moooo99 wrote:
           | Wait, that is per day?!
        
         | OfSanguineFire wrote:
         | With the recent legislation that every Polish village has to be
         | connected to water and sewage even if the homeowner wanted to
         | remain off-grid, I would expect not expect well-digging to
         | remain popular.
        
           | jcarrano wrote:
           | It still makes sense to have a well because it is a waste to
           | water the lawn with drinking water.
        
             | moooo99 wrote:
             | > It still makes sense to have a well because it is a waste
             | to water the lawn with drinking water.
             | 
             | Watering the lawn is just a waste of water, period. Ground
             | water is commonly used as the primary source of drinking
             | water, so even if the water is being extracted from a well,
             | it is pretty much drinking water.
        
               | OfSanguineFire wrote:
               | This very much depends on the place. There are plenty of
               | areas of Europe where groundwater at ordinary well depth
               | is no longer potable and the community relies on a
               | reservoir with a different source. So, if your property
               | has an old well, all it is good for is watering a lawn or
               | orchard, washing your car or bicycle, etc.
        
               | eric-hu wrote:
               | I'm curious: if the water isn't considered potable, would
               | you want to be watering plants with it? Is the
               | contamination more often bacterial than chemical?
        
               | cj wrote:
               | My friend has a condo in the Virgin Islands where water
               | isn't in high supply (majority of water is sourced from
               | rain)
               | 
               | The HOA where the condo is has an on-site water
               | sanitation facility which recycles toilet, shower, sink
               | water.
               | 
               | They don't consider the recycled water potable, but I
               | guess they consider it safe enough for watering plants,
               | for re-use in toilet water, etc.
               | 
               | TLDR: in the above case, it's bacterial risk or the use
               | of a water sanitization facility that doesn't provide
               | guarantee around portability.
        
               | eric-hu wrote:
               | Yeah that seems reasonable enough to me. I've seen parks
               | and green spaces in Southern California that have warning
               | signs about not drinking irrigation water.
               | 
               | My earlier comment was motivated by a concern that
               | tapping a non-potable water source for one's own family
               | might bear health risks without more analysis of the
               | state of that water. For all you know, even if you only
               | use that water for plants, maybe you're growing food with
               | water high in arsenic and it's accumulating in the food.
        
               | OfSanguineFire wrote:
               | People all over the world water plants with water that is
               | not potable itself due to bacterial or viral
               | contamination. This is where the old traveler's adage
               | "Boil it, cook it, peel it, or forget it" comes from.
               | 
               | If the groundwater is not potable because of e.g. arsenic
               | or pesticide contamination, I think that homeowners are
               | usually aware of that and therefore are more likely to
               | use the water only for washing purposes.
        
               | eric-hu wrote:
               | Right, I could have stated more explicitly. Watering
               | possibly edible plants with pathogen polluted water seems
               | okay. Watering them with chemically polluted water seems
               | like maybe a way to ingest toxic stuff. Washing dishes
               | seems dicey too.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | OfSanguineFire wrote:
             | It is not as common to water one's lawn in Poland. It's not
             | like the country doesn't get enough rain, and most
             | villagers don't feel the need to show off perfect lawns to
             | their neighbors as e.g. in the USA.
        
               | quickthrower2 wrote:
               | Don't water the lawn (or fertilise or roundup etc.) in
               | Australia: for some reason it stays green without it:
               | buffalo grass is as tough as nails! Sometimes it goes
               | yellow but it always comes back!
        
               | moooo99 wrote:
               | Lawns in the US consume as many resources as they do
               | because the typical lawn you see isn't a species native
               | to the US, instead it was imported from Europe. With the
               | soil being different etc., it is not surprising lawns,
               | especially when they're as big as in the US, require so
               | many resources.
        
               | peterleiser wrote:
               | What is the species that is not native?
        
               | eesmith wrote:
               | Kentucky Bluegrass - Poa pratensis - is a common lawn
               | grass which despite its name is not originally from North
               | America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poa_pratensis
               | 
               | Another is Perennial Ryegrass - Lolium perenne -
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolium_perenne .
               | 
               | A third is the common bent - Agrostis capillaris -
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrostis_capillaris .
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | Many lawns in the US do use grass native to that part of
               | the US. Not all, but many. However grass goes dormant
               | when it doesn't rain for a couple weeks and people don't
               | like that brown look so they water even though the grass
               | (either native or imported) doesn't need it. Likewise
               | people don't like flowers and other weeds and so they
               | apply a lot of chemicals to the lawn - but the grass
               | doesn't need them.
               | 
               | TL;DR: lawns in the US do not need any resources. It is
               | "perfect lawns" that need a lot of resources.
        
             | yarpen_z wrote:
             | We don't really have suburbs like the one in the US. Having
             | a perfect lawn that requires constant watering and
             | meticulous care is not common.
        
               | boppo1 wrote:
               | What is the landscaping around single family homes like
               | then? Or do you just have urban & rural without an in-
               | between?
        
               | wizzwizz4 wrote:
               | Trees, hedges, native grasses and shrubs: the kinds of
               | plant you'd probably consider "weeds" in US suburbia.
               | Within cities, there's
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house, and there
               | are villages in amongst the fields and forests of rural
               | areas.
               | 
               | Places like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gaeltacht_
               | Park,_Whitehall... are the closest I've really seen to US
               | suburbia, and it's _always_ been within walking distance
               | of a food shop.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | I'm the EU, most homes are terraced. There may be a back
               | and front yard, but they will be tiny compared to a US
               | home.
               | 
               | Single family homes are both expensive and uncommon as
               | land is generally more of a premium.
        
               | seszett wrote:
               | Even in Belgium, one of the highest density countries in
               | the EU, most existing and newly built houses are semi-
               | detached, with about twice as much semi-detached +
               | detached houses as there are terraced houses.
               | 
               | In France, terraced homes are rather uncommon outside the
               | North close to Belgium, and old city centers. In fact, I
               | don't even know if we have a name for detached houses, as
               | far as I know they're just called "a house" while a
               | terraced house is a "city house".
               | 
               | So I don't have the numbers for all of the EU but I don't
               | think most homes are actually terraced homes in the EU.
               | 
               | And people do have grass lawns, but only where grass
               | actually grows without too much care needed. Where I come
               | from on the coast grass doesn't grow well on the sandy
               | ground and lawns are uncommon, but a few kilometres
               | inland if you don't do anything you get a mostly-grass
               | lawn, with a lot of clover, daisies and often orchids
               | growing in it.
        
               | avgcorrection wrote:
               | > I'm the EU
               | 
               | Wow, sounds large. But fitting dropped word for such a
               | big generalization.
        
               | OfSanguineFire wrote:
               | Google Street View will let you look at plenty of Polish
               | homes.
        
               | mozman wrote:
               | I have care for my lawn and put a lot of effort into it,
               | with most of my prop being grass with a small portion
               | that is gravel
        
           | fakedang wrote:
           | I think we'll see a similar scenario as what happened in many
           | rural and semi-urban areas of India. Most folks use well
           | water for their daily use, but still maintain an
           | urban/central water connection in case of emergencies
           | (especially as droughts are becoming more of a reality
           | worldwide).
           | 
           | Well digging is still going strong - actually stronger, since
           | people are now digging deeper wells as the water table is
           | shrinking.
        
           | badtension wrote:
           | You could bypass that with a domestic wastewater treatment
           | plant.
        
             | OfSanguineFire wrote:
             | That does not appear to be the case. A friend of mine spent
             | a considerable amount of money a few years ago to build a
             | wastewater treatment system on his property. Then the
             | _gmina_ told him that, under new legislation, he would
             | still have to connect his property to the common sewage
             | system. This is something that he and many of his
             | neighbours were reluctant to do, because it brings new
             | monthly service charges. He tried to argue his case and
             | managed to stall for several months, but eventually he was
             | forced to do so lest he be fined.
             | 
             | I have heard villagers in Spain and Italy complaining about
             | the same thing, so I assumed there was a new _loi
             | communitaire_.
        
               | Animatronio wrote:
               | A sewage system doesn't work well without periodic
               | flushes. Having too few houses connected to it means it
               | is at risk of drying and clogging. Most probably when it
               | was designed they took into account the number of houses
               | is was supposed to collect waste water from. Anything
               | less then that number would be risky for the whole
               | system.
        
           | momirlan wrote:
           | you also have to consider the price to pay for metered
           | municipal water. i would still prefer free water from my own
           | dug well.
        
             | OfSanguineFire wrote:
             | I did consider that price: it is negligible in Poland. The
             | now-obligatory water and sewage connection in all villages
             | brings service fees that people sometimes grumble about,
             | but water itself doesn't cost very much.
        
         | gibspaulding wrote:
         | This is really interesting, though I unfortunately don't read
         | Polish.
         | 
         | For each ring deeper, do you dig out under the bottom ring
         | until it slides down and another can be added to the top of the
         | stack? That sounds terrifying having a whole stack of concrete
         | shifting around above you.
        
           | schobi wrote:
           | I built such a well... The concrete rings will just sloooowly
           | slide down once there is room under them. If you dig evenly,
           | they will just go down straight. Only a few centimeters at a
           | time. This part does not feel dangerous. As a bonus,you can
           | buy concrete rings with steps included, so you don't need to
           | buy a 5m long ladder.
           | 
           | In historic well digging the walls needed to be secured with
           | wooden planks or bricks and such after digging straight down.
           | Huge risk of the walls falling in. This was a problem just
           | generations ago... And all of the family had stories of
           | grandfather's digging wells that collapsed and that the
           | historic approach was dangerous.
           | 
           | With concrete rings, there is no danger of collapsing. And
           | certainly, when placing a ring, noone should be standing
           | inside!
           | 
           | But yes... - It becomes a little claustrophobic when this
           | becomes deep. I stopped at 4.5m and got used to it by the
           | time we came that deep. - I put a pipe in to blow fresh air
           | to the bottom. This helps with the uneasy feeling of a
           | possible bad smell - there is a risk of dropping a bucket on
           | the head. Use a proper rope, a proper knot, a proper bucket
           | made for lifting and stop when the guy above needs a break
        
       | 303uru wrote:
       | Heh, water table here is at about 350 feet with nothing but
       | boulders and clay between ground level and there. Good luck.
        
       | schobi wrote:
       | It is nice to get that many details on a single drilling method.
       | But keep in mind - there are many more techniques for making your
       | own well. Some might be better suited depending on the
       | conditions.
       | 
       | There are hand operated drills, 150mm diameter with extension
       | rods up to 10-15m long. If it works for your soil, then this is
       | less messy.
       | 
       | I went with digging and a different type of dug well
       | "Schachtbrunnen". I laid a pre-fabricated concrete ring on the
       | ground and started digging inside until it sank into the ground.
       | When it was level, I put the next ring on top. No special tool
       | needed, a shovel, a bucket, some rope, patience and certainly a
       | permit.
        
         | marmakoide wrote:
         | I helped my Dad doing just that ! It was fairly easy, it just
         | need patience. It's South West France, in an area with sandy
         | soil. All it took was ropes, shovels and buckets. We connected
         | it to drain pipe buried in the garden, to capture the winter
         | rain water. The water is used for outdoor cleaning, gardening.
        
         | mongol wrote:
         | How did you dig? With a shovel? Or some other equipment? How
         | many rings did it take?
        
           | nightfly wrote:
           | > No special tool needed, a shovel, a bucket, some rope,
           | patience and certainly a permit.
        
           | schobi wrote:
           | Yes - shovel and bucket. I took 50cm rings each, for a total
           | of 9 for 4.5m. They weigh about 300kg each and could be
           | rolled into the garden. I got some scaffolding pipes and
           | built a "gantry" over my hole. We could lower them by
           | attaching a small chain operated pulley.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | How deep can that go? Can you fit yourself and shovel in the
         | ring to go deeper? Is there any danger of collapse?
        
           | schobi wrote:
           | I went to 4.5m - the rings did not slide easily any more as
           | we paused for a year. If you work on it right away, you can
           | go much further
           | 
           | I went with an inner diameter of 1m, this is fine for a small
           | shovel, a pump, a small jackhammer.
           | 
           | Concrete rings are used all the time in road construction
           | work. I don't see a risk of collapse with those when stacking
           | carefully. Even if one ring were to get a crack, where should
           | it go? I felt safe in this regard
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | Huh. This is ingenius in that "obvious once you hear it" way
         | that I wouldn't have thought of. I practical want to try it
         | just because of that.
        
       | ltbarcly3 wrote:
       | I tried this years ago and it ended in failure. From what I
       | learned it seems like your soil down to the level you want to
       | drill to has to be basically 100% silt/sand/clay. In most areas
       | there are various pebbles, some up to the the size of a dime or
       | so, and what I found was smaller particles would wash up and out
       | of the hole, but these pebbles would accumulate on the bottom.
       | 
       | I switched from using low-volume water sources to a 1.5HP well
       | pump pulling from a swimming pool. The pool would empty in about
       | 20 minutes, and I would then have to wait for it to refill from a
       | regular hose. However, while this very high water volume was able
       | to clear the pebbles (which is how I know the floor of the hole
       | was covered with pebbles at all, it was maybe 12 feet down at
       | that point), there was diminishing returns and eventually the
       | pebbles no longer cleared the top.
       | 
       | I'm sure I was doing something completely wrong, in the end if
       | you have sandy/silty/clay soil you can just buy a sand point (aka
       | driven point) and sledgehammer it down as deep as you need to go.
       | It's a lot more heavy labor but it is also almost certain to
       | work.
        
         | kylebenzle wrote:
         | I'm doing a hammer driven well point right now, been pounding
         | for 3 weeks nearly everyday. I get about 1 inch per day
         | exhausting myself. I'm maybe 9 feet down, no water yet. I am
         | getting a lot stonger and it gets eaier everyday. Probably have
         | 20+ hours into this stupid thing already :(
         | 
         | Well point is NOT easy.
        
       | housemusicfan wrote:
       | This sounds like a terrible idea, along the lines of "How to
       | perform your own knee surgery"
        
         | EgregiousCube wrote:
         | Perhaps, but a really cool thing to know, and you're much less
         | likely to hurt yourself. I enjoyed the read :)
        
         | msandford wrote:
         | Its pitched as just for irrigation, not drinking water. Not
         | nearly as dangerous as a result.
        
         | Ariarule wrote:
         | What exactly is so terrible as long as you're willing to take a
         | small to moderate risk of getting a PVC pipe stuck in the
         | ground and keep in mind the presented cautions -- consider the
         | water irrigation-only/non-potable until tested (possibly even
         | if tested, although that's not what the site says)?
        
           | ooterness wrote:
           | Badly dug, uncapped wells can also exacerbate groundwater
           | contamination, making the problem worse for everyone else.
        
         | alexo67 wrote:
         | Maybe for use as drinking water, but for watering flowers etc.
         | it is perfect.
        
       | seahorserocker wrote:
       | I tried to use this to drill a well some years ago on the west
       | coast of Florida near the ocean. Worked great through the sand
       | about 20 feet. Then we hit a shale deposit. There was no getting
       | through it. Some pro well drillers came and couldn't make it
       | through either. The neighbor drilled his own well a couple years
       | prior and told us the secret. Blasting caps. We gave up.
        
         | YeBanKo wrote:
         | Blasting cap on the drill bit?
        
           | Arrath wrote:
           | Usually you pull your spendy drill string out of the ground
           | then lower a charge down the hole to fracture whatever layer
           | is giving you trouble. Turning your drill bit into a
           | fragmentation grenade tends not to be overly productive.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | The good news is that the shale was determined to be frackable,
         | so you were able to sell hundreds of thousands of barrels of
         | oil and drive to Beverly Hills in your ancient jalopy
        
       | dalke wrote:
       | I don't think it would be worthwhile to make your own hydraulic
       | drill if there are rental alternatives.
       | 
       | More specifically, around 1981 my Dad rented a drilling rig to
       | supply the irrigation pump for our yard in Miami.
       | 
       | See, the city was phasing out septic systems, and had installed
       | sewers to our neighborhood. They charged for sewer based on water
       | consumed. By drilling a well he could avoid paying sewage fees
       | for irrigation water.
       | 
       | I think he hit water at 8 feet, and put the well down to 12. This
       | was Miami.
       | 
       | It also drilled through some limestone.
        
         | bragr wrote:
         | >if there are rental alternatives.
         | 
         | That's good advice for almost all tools. The average weekend
         | warrior may never have been to their local tool rental shop,
         | but it's worth checking out! You can rent just about anything,
         | for very reasonable prices, and it tends to be pretty high
         | quality/industrial stuff. For all the tools you only use one a
         | year, it probably makes more financial sense to rent than buy.
        
           | quickthrower2 wrote:
           | But you can often buy cheaper than renting with the caveat of
           | getting a cheaper brand. For most DIY I find the cheaper ones
           | good enough, as long as you get some online wisdom first to
           | avoid the occasional turds being sold. Example: chainsaw,
           | drill, jet wash, pruning equipment etc.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | Sure, but when I rent I get a better quality tool, and I
             | don't have to store it until next time.
        
             | moooo99 wrote:
             | > But you can often buy cheaper than renting with the
             | caveat of getting a cheaper brand.
             | 
             | that heavily depends on the kind of tool and what the
             | likelihood of you using this thing more than twice a year
             | is. A chainsaw, drill, jetwash - very reasonable. Anything
             | more specialiced, you're usually better off renting -
             | especially as one could often use the instructions provided
             | by the experts.
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | Where I live, they base the sewage fees off water usage during
         | the winter. Since few people water their yards then, it mostly
         | takes irrigation out of the equation.
         | 
         | Bonus: it spurs you to think about conservation. When your
         | 3-month wastewater averaging period starts, you know that any
         | water you save will cut costs for the whole year.
        
           | fred_is_fred wrote:
           | Same here and I've thought about this, but the cost savings
           | of doing less winter laundry for example are in the end
           | miniscule. We pay way more for water than for sewer.
        
         | h2odragon wrote:
         | Yeah, well, Florida. You don't need much to hit water table in
         | FL. High heels will sometimes do.
        
           | dalke wrote:
           | Yes. Isn't that the point of the web site?
           | 
           | When the water table is shallow, but deeper than your
           | Louboutins - which is much of Florida - you can drill a well
           | yourself, at low cost.
           | 
           | After all, the technique only works for down to about 20 feet
           | (there's another page on how to extend that to 30 feet), and
           | 7 of the 26 listed success stories are from Florida.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | In most of the world you can drill down 20 feet and find
             | water. It might or might not be safe to drink. It might or
             | might not be a lot of water, but even in deserts you
             | commonly can find it that shallow.
        
         | jcampbell1 wrote:
         | Many places allow for dual meters: one water meter that is used
         | for irrigation and another for water that ultimately goes for
         | waste treatment. In places with abundant water, e.g. places
         | where this drilling technique would work, the water is
         | typically practically free and the "water bill" is mostly a
         | sewer bill.
        
       | aaron695 wrote:
       | > Many folks think they have to dig or drill their well into an
       | aquifer.
       | 
       | My concern here is ground water will have septic contamination,
       | don't know if that's stupid or not.
       | 
       | Hand dug wells are fun to watch on TikTok, most on the tag are
       | old ones, but a few are people digging them -
       | https://www.tiktok.com/tag/handdug%20well
       | 
       | This one scared the shit out of me -
       | https://www.tiktok.com/@smithalayamrajeev/video/723999758509...
       | 
       | I was looking at this Polish Company selling augers, but I
       | checked local bore records and they were 80m for the aquifer and
       | they were hitting rock pretty quickly in their samples even if I
       | went for ground water -
       | https://www.ebay.com/str/drillpartnerofficialstore
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | Fortunately most dirt is an excellent filter for septic waste.
         | The law requires 40 (double check this number for where you
         | live) of distance between a septic system and a well because at
         | that distance the water that gets through is safe to drink
         | without any more treatment. It doesn't matter how bad your
         | septic system is installed, the 40 feet distance makes it safe.
         | 
         | Note that I said most dirt above. There are types of soil that
         | act more like pipes and so raw sewage from a leaking septic
         | system has been found many miles away. Check with a local
         | expert to see what soil you have to deal with.
        
         | gregmac wrote:
         | > My concern here is ground water will have septic
         | contamination, don't know if that's stupid or not.
         | 
         | It's not just that, dug and shallow wells are also getting
         | surface water run-off -- basically anything on the ground in
         | the immediate area or uphill. There's actually an acronym for
         | this: GWUDI (Groundwater under the direct influence [of surface
         | water]). They're highly susceptible to seasonal changes and
         | rain. The worst ones are people that in a lower-lying area than
         | nearby farms -- nitrates (from animal feces and fertilizers)
         | and pesticides are all extremely expensive to remove from
         | water.
         | 
         | When you do a drilled well, the annular space (the hole around
         | the casing) actually has to be sealed (with bentonite) to
         | prevent surface water from getting directly into the well and
         | aquifer. I see no mention of this in the article.
         | 
         | Where I live (Ontario Canada) there are environmental laws
         | protecting ground water. Badly done wells can actually
         | contaminate a huge area and affect other people's wells and
         | drinking water.
        
         | chewz wrote:
         | > My concern here is ground water will have septic
         | contamination, don't know if that's stupid or not.
         | 
         | It isn't stupid concern for drinking water. You could have
         | neighbours with septic tanks leaking, cesspools or using crazy
         | amounts of roundup for their lawn.
         | 
         | But for watering flowers, washing and cleaning ground water is
         | usually OK. You can always make a test of water quality at
         | local authority...
         | 
         | Aquifier water is of good quality but getting to it might be
         | expensive.
        
       | zigzaggy wrote:
       | My grandfather was a "well witcher" (Appalachian roots here).
       | Many believe that's woo woo or some kind of super power. The man
       | was incredibly intelligent and resourceful and he had a
       | reputation for finding water every single time he dropped the
       | drill into the ground.
       | 
       | When I was a kid I used to go to sleep listening to stories of my
       | dad and his dad driving around on a 2 ton truck with a 3 ton
       | drill and how the brakes always went out. Somehow they always
       | lived to tell the tale.
       | 
       | Haven't thought about this in a long time. Good memories.
        
         | MisterBastahrd wrote:
         | .... Your grandfather knew that he needed to find soil that
         | wasn't covered in a stone slab and how deep he needed to dig to
         | hit the water table.
         | 
         | That's not woo woo or some kind of super power. That's simply
         | having the experience of having dug a deep hole in the ground a
         | few times.
        
         | presidentender wrote:
         | My dad drilled water wells in the US after spending many years
         | working on oil wells overseas. His clients would often hire
         | witchers (water witches, water witchers, well witches - I think
         | the distance from Appalachia to Montana clouded the specific
         | vocabulary). You'd have this very old man dodder around the
         | property with a pair of sticks, and when the sticks magically
         | chose to pull together and cross, that's where you'd dig the
         | well.
         | 
         | I do not recall whether the magical approach was any more
         | successful than the traditional approach.
        
           | johnloeber wrote:
           | It's called Dowsing and there's no evidence that it works.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | In most cases you can drill just about anywhere and find
           | water. So any approach from random to looking at geological
           | features (which you can gather from seismograph data, if
           | needed set off an explosion in controlled locations...) will
           | find water. The latter approach may find a specific place
           | where a less deep well can work, but in most locations there
           | isn't that much a difference (at least not among the
           | reasonable places to drill your well - if you are willing to
           | pay for miles of pipe you can maybe have a useful choice of
           | location).
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | I was shocked to randomly drive by a local water utility
           | company and a guy walking in a field holding what looked like
           | dowsing rods in his hands.
           | 
           | I didn't stop to ask, but it wasn't a locate antenna (I am
           | familiar with those, and he didn't have any wires or
           | electronic equipment on him).
           | 
           | I was pretty surprised they were messing around with dowsing,
           | knowing it's scientifically unproven/disproven.
           | 
           | Then again, people still use lie detectors and chiropractics.
        
             | earleybird wrote:
             | Might not have been dowsing but a geoelectric survey of the
             | inductive/capacitive/resistive variety. The BBC Time Team
             | folks occasionally use these for non invasive surveys.
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU9aRZK4j84&t=663s
        
           | dreamcompiler wrote:
           | When I built my house in the country, the well driller
           | insisted on witching. He said "we should drill right here." I
           | said "No, move it 100 feet that way. Your spot is right in
           | the middle of my future driveway."
           | 
           | "I can't guarantee we'll hit water there" he said.
           | 
           | "I paying you. Just drill where I said" I said.
           | 
           | And of course we hit water.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | _Finding & Buying Your Place in the Country_ has a whole
             | section on wells. The main key seems to be onsite when it
             | is drilled, because otherwise they'll just leave after
             | drilling one, even if it is dry.
        
           | stickfigure wrote:
           | It's shocking how many people still give weight to astrology.
        
             | mbivert wrote:
             | Slightly tangential but I've found it insightful: there are
             | studies, e.g. [0], showing correlations between lifespan
             | and date of birth. Causal factors could include for example
             | seasonal viral infections, lesser amount of vitamin D in
             | the winter, etc.
             | 
             | Of course, this tells nothing about well-witching, but
             | illustrates that at least _some_ old beliefs aren 't as
             | unreasonable as one might think.
             | 
             | [0]: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.041431898
        
               | stickfigure wrote:
               | Even without evaluating the quality of the study, I don't
               | have a hard time accepting the notion that the season of
               | your birth may affect your average lifespan by a few
               | months. It is a very modest claim.
               | 
               | The claims of astrologers are not at all like this. They
               | are _vastly_ more specific.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | cman1444 wrote:
             | I consider myself a pretty cynical person, but I tried it
             | myself to prove someone else wrong and I couldn't help but
             | feel like it actually worked.
             | 
             | We were looking for a water pipe, not just sitting
             | groundwater. The only explanation I could come up with was
             | that for some reason a magnetic field was being created by
             | the pipe underground. I don't remember if the water was
             | flowing or not when we did it.
             | 
             | I feel silly even commenting this, but we truly did find
             | the pipe exactly where I was standing when the rods pointed
             | together.
             | 
             | Of course it's very possible that I unconsciously tilted my
             | hands in the spot where I suspected the pipe would be. Even
             | though I did make a conscious effort to not do exactly
             | that, I wonder if there is some psychological factor in the
             | phenomenon.
        
               | stickfigure wrote:
               | It's possible you just got lucky. That's the problem with
               | N=1 experiments, and why you should be skeptical of your
               | limited experience.
               | 
               | Feynman put it this way: _The first principle is that you
               | must not fool yourself--and you are the easiest person to
               | fool._
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | benoliver999 wrote:
         | In _The Traveller 's Tree_ by Patrick Leigh Fermor, a
         | travelogue from the Caribbean, he gives an account of water
         | divination. He initially sees it as some voodoo myth, and is
         | taken aback when they repeatedly find water.
        
           | digitalsushi wrote:
           | Ok, if I point at a random spot in the ground in an area that
           | generally has water, and I said, "dig here and you will find
           | water", and you put 1/5 a mile of pipe down into the earth
           | and water comes up, am I some type of miracle? Would those
           | people work in the desert? I think it's a lotto ticket that
           | always wins.
        
             | benoliver999 wrote:
             | "These people" are generally called upon when the community
             | is struggling to find water.
        
             | finnh wrote:
             | I think there is a more functional and charitable read of
             | this: not all of our senses are plumbed all the way through
             | to our conscious mind at all times. small little hints
             | (like minor changes in smell, relative humidity, maybe just
             | pattern-matching on the lay of the land) are down in the
             | noise, and pulling out your trusty sticks gives your
             | subconscious a way to send a signal to your awareness.
             | 
             | Kinda like acupuncture - does my pulse really have seven
             | levels that mean different things? I doubt it.. but a
             | successful acupuncturist might still be able to diagnose
             | "what hurts" using said technique, when really they've
             | already picked up on other clues from your gait, posture,
             | etc.
             | 
             | "subliminal" and "subconscious" are over-used and vague
             | words, but we've all had the experience of wearing a new
             | clothing item and receiving an uncommon number of
             | compliments, including from strangers who wouldn't know
             | it's new. I've always assumed we are unconsciously
             | presenting the new thing with a bit of flair, and that
             | equally-unconsciously draws the eye.
        
               | stickfigure wrote:
               | This is far too charitable. The first question we should
               | ask is "does it actually work?" and the answer is NO.
               | 
               | The wikipedia page lists quite a few scientific studies
               | that establish this. The net summary is:
               | 
               |  _The scientific evidence shows that dowsing is no more
               | effective than random chance. It is therefore regarded as
               | a pseudoscience._
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowsing
        
               | the_fury wrote:
               | You have to be careful of what you mean by "does it
               | actually work".
               | 
               | Does the dowsing find water hidden in a random spot or is
               | the dowser tapping into subconscious knowledge about the
               | land to find it. The parent is talking about the latter.
               | 
               | Look up "Ideomotor phenomenon" in your source. It's right
               | above the pseudoscience bit.
        
               | eesmith wrote:
               | It's not like subconscious knowledge must be _valid_
               | subconscious knowledge. The ideomotor phenomenon is an
               | expression of internal belief, which may be little
               | different than a wild-ass guess.
               | 
               | There's no evidence that the dowser is tapping into
               | subconscious knowledge in a way that gives results any
               | better than - or different from - chance.
        
               | darkerside wrote:
               | Eye tracking probably plays a big role. We are hardwired
               | to notice what other people are looking at.
               | 
               | Also, you bought it because it looked good, didn't you?
        
               | finnh wrote:
               | The eye tracking explanation is a good one, thanks. I
               | think it supports my hypothesis by providing a possible
               | mechanism of action.
               | 
               | To your second point: yes, of course. But three weeks
               | later it looks (mostly) the same but stops drawing
               | compliments.
        
             | monkmartinez wrote:
             | These people do work in the desert. I have a buddy that
             | drills wells here in Arizona and he WILL NOT put a drill
             | into the ground without a Witcher. I have a really hard
             | time with "witching" from a logical POV, but my buddy and
             | his $130k truck/equipment swear by it. I call that putting
             | your money where your mouth is.
        
               | gregmac wrote:
               | The test would be finding a spot where a witcher says
               | there _isn 't_ water, and then drilling there.
               | 
               | There's water almost everywhere in the ground -- the
               | questions are is there enough of it to meet the need? is
               | it usable (ie: not contaminated with salt or toxic
               | chemicals)?
        
               | gallamine wrote:
               | > There's water almost everywhere in the ground
               | 
               | In Arizona?
        
               | kip_ wrote:
               | https://new.azwater.gov/aaws/maps-resources will give you
               | a good idea of how far down wells have to go in various
               | areas of Arizona.
        
               | kip_ wrote:
               | Particularly https://azwatermaps.azwater.gov/gwsiweb/
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | Yes.
        
               | soperj wrote:
               | > I call that putting your money where your mouth is.
               | 
               | Others would say "A fool and his money are soon parted".
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | the depth of the water table is fairly well known throughout
           | the world, and it is not like a series of underwater rivers
           | which are easily missed; the water table is called a "table"
           | because it is very large and very flat.
           | 
           | if you are within 100 miles of a natural body of water, or in
           | a flood plain, or anywhere that it rains semi-regularly,
           | drilling will get you to a source of water.
           | 
           | there's no magic or divination involved.
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | If you dig deep enough anywhere you'll probably find water
         | eventually.
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | This guide is great. Before reading it I was always chipping my
       | water. Now I know how to do it!
        
       | anilakar wrote:
       | Step one: move to a place where the municipality does not claim
       | ownership on the bedrock.
        
       | killingtime74 wrote:
       | This ignores the most difficult part...getting a permit
        
         | oceanplexian wrote:
         | I think the idea behind doing it yourself is that you don't
         | need a permit. In the USA, while permits are technically
         | required for a lot of things, the law is widely ignored, and
         | enforcement is lax to nonexistent. Hell most of the licensed
         | contractors I hire (electric, plumbing, etc) don't bother to
         | pull permits, even for new work.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | The permits exist for a reason.
           | 
           | If too many people start doing it, it becomes an issue of
           | overdrawing groundwater. This leads to an arms race of
           | digging ever deeper wells to reach the remaining groundwater,
           | and on top of that starts leading to ground subsidence as
           | ground formerly full of water dries out and compacts.
           | 
           | Off the top of my head, there is massive groundwater
           | subsidence in the Central Valley of California, Mexico City,
           | and Jakarta due to this issue, at rates measured in feet per
           | year. This makes the land prone to flooding, and also damages
           | buildings and infrastructure since the subsidence is
           | generally not evenly spread out.
        
             | d00wgnir wrote:
             | I was looking into this DIY approach and it is not allowed
             | in my county. Some of the justification is that improperly
             | cased wells can allow backflow contamination of the larger
             | water supply, affecting other nearby water sources. I'm not
             | sure how likely this is as I have limited knowledge of the
             | subject.
        
             | anakaine wrote:
             | Importantly, in case it wasn't obvious to readers,
             | hydrocompaction cannot be undone in any meaningful way.
             | Once the compaction happens, water will no longer, and will
             | never again, flow in the compacted area.
        
           | KirillPanov wrote:
           | At least in my state (Washington), electricians and plumbers
           | licenses include an annual permit which covers all the work
           | they do during that year. It's only the trades that don't
           | have a licensing program (or are only licensed as "general
           | contractor") that need a separate permit for each job instead
           | of one big one that covers all their work for the year.
        
             | throw9away6 wrote:
             | Each individual job also needs a permit
        
           | pbourke wrote:
           | You will likely have issues if you ever try to sell property
           | with an unpermitted well. FHA loans have restrictions on the
           | well as do many local jurisdictions that may refuse to convey
           | the property if the well isn't up to code. My local
           | jurisdiction won't block the sale but will write an alarming
           | letter to the seller. In the case of a new build or major
           | remodel, you will not be able to get a certificate of
           | occupancy without a state and county verified well here.
           | 
           | > Hell most of the licensed contractors I hire (electric,
           | plumbing, etc) don't bother to pull permits, even for new
           | work.
           | 
           | Yeah, it's your responsibility as a homeowner to get the
           | permit (either get it yourself or see that the contractor
           | does). Even if you don't think the permit inspectors are
           | doing anything in terms of quality control, the permit helps
           | you to pass inspections as part of the sale process and will
           | limit your insurance exposure if there's ever an issue.
           | There's probably fine print in your insurance contract saying
           | that all work shall be permitted as required.
        
             | bragr wrote:
             | Yeah, it doesn't take a genius inspector to take the as
             | built plans, the list of work permits, and see if that
             | explains current state of the house. And then there's the
             | whole issue of mandatory disclosure forms and how
             | forthcoming you are on those and if whatever you put down
             | aligns with the inspectors find.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | That assumes there are as built plans. I live in an area
               | of the US with a lot of old houses and there certainly
               | aren't as built plans for 100-200+ year old houses or a
               | string of permits for any substantial work.
               | 
               | (Well/septic tend to get more scrutiny at a sale but the
               | status of old renovations/remodels in general are often
               | pretty opaque.)
        
         | myspy wrote:
         | We had the idea to drill one to here in Germany, but having
         | drilled it doesn't mean you can use it as long as you please.
         | Ground water levels are falling and eventually it will be
         | forbidden.
         | 
         | But we also have a 13k liter cistern and with drip irrigation
         | it holds reasonably long.
        
         | greenie_beans wrote:
         | permits don't exist in the county where i want to do this.
        
         | K0balt wrote:
         | And today I am reminded that people in many places must get the
         | state's permission to build, repair, or improve their shelter,
         | to grow food, to collect rainwater, to dig a well.
         | 
         | On property they "own".
         | 
         | You're literally asking the states permission to have the basic
         | things needed for human survival- shelter, food, and water.
         | 
         | While this makes sense to me for a business or an organisation,
         | it strikes me as unconscionable for a private individual to
         | have to get permission from the state to survive.
        
           | fouc wrote:
           | > it strikes me as unconscionable for a private individual to
           | have to get permission from the state to survive.
           | 
           | It would be nice to be free of the state. But how do we deal
           | with the Tragedy of the Commons? How do we make hidden
           | externalities visible & accurately priced?
           | 
           | It seems like the population is too high in most places to be
           | able to tolerate people doing their own thing, with their own
           | property. Not sustainable unfortunately.
           | 
           | At this point, "private ownership" is fading away.
           | Eventually, maybe a hundred of years from now, we'll all be
           | leasing our land from the government, and perhaps even
           | leasing our privileges.
        
             | myshpa wrote:
             | > how do we deal with the Tragedy of the Commons? How do we
             | make hidden externalities visible & accurately priced
             | 
             | We do (pretend to do) when it's easy enough. But mostly we
             | don't. Some examples:
             | 
             | - (micro)plastic pollution
             | 
             | - climate change (greenhouse gases)
             | 
             | - deforestation
             | 
             | - biodiversity loss
             | 
             | - overfishing, bycatch
             | 
             | We even subsidize the sectors causing most of the damage.
             | But for for a regular joe wanting to have water ... sure,
             | that's easy enough.
        
               | fouc wrote:
               | yep, we're failing to price those hidden externalities
               | big time.
        
               | gottorf wrote:
               | There's a philosophical question here, which is that as
               | science and technology get better and our ability to
               | measure things improve, the hidden externalities become
               | less and less hidden. Nobody told Grok the caveman not to
               | burn sticks in his cave for warmth, out of concern for
               | releasing CO2 and particulate matter; but nowadays it's
               | frowned upon to use a wood pellet furnace instead of
               | electric heat, for example.
               | 
               | Existence itself is an externality, since everything any
               | living organism does affects every other living organism,
               | however minutely. There probably exists some amount of
               | externalities that we have to choose to ignore.
        
               | nahuel0x wrote:
               | We can stop destroying the entire biosphere first and
               | then get philosophical with the remaining details.
        
             | greenie_beans wrote:
             | tragedy of the commons is a myth
             | https://aeon.co/essays/the-tragedy-of-the-commons-is-a-
             | false...
        
               | fouc wrote:
               | Not sure why you got downvoted.. thanks for the link
        
           | Neil44 wrote:
           | I understand the sentiment but when you have this many people
           | living close together, somebody has to be the adult to make
           | sure things continue to work for everybody.
        
           | holoduke wrote:
           | Because you alter things outside of your perimeter. If you
           | extract a lot of water you might cause issues at your
           | neighbour.
        
             | myshpa wrote:
             | Yet e.g. fracking or animal agriculture gets subsidized, no
             | reasonable limits are being enforced, while doing most of
             | the damage.
        
               | voisin wrote:
               | Groups that do those things have political clout. The
               | average homeowner does not.
        
             | itsoktocry wrote:
             | > _Because you alter things outside of your perimeter._
             | 
             | Indeed, but you need a permit for a lot of things contained
             | within your property too. Technically, I need a permit to
             | change my front door. Kinda silly, mostly ignored by
             | people, which is probably a worse outcome.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Homes can have neighboring properties and non-owner
               | occupants and there are third-party fire risk concerns
               | with both. It is not good if people build homes which are
               | at risk of spreading fire to neighboring properties, or
               | at risk of harming occupants in case of a fire.
               | 
               | Building codes are a big reason we don't have nearly as
               | many events called "the great fire of [city]" in the 21st
               | century.
        
           | JKolios wrote:
           | Or, you know, people understand that their actions have
           | consequences on others and living in an organized society is
           | far better than the alternative. We're not endlessly settling
           | an untapped frontier that exists solely in our heads.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | EliRivers wrote:
           | _On property they own_
           | 
           | Ownership that is regulate and enforced by the state; if you
           | own it according to the rules, you use it according to the
           | rules. If you want to do something else, you can step outside
           | the rules and best of luck to you.
        
             | technothrasher wrote:
             | > you can step outside the rules and best of luck to you.
             | 
             | This is why I cannot understand how the 'sovereign citizen'
             | nonsense is at all appealing to anybody. If I'm my own boss
             | and not morally subject to society's rules, how is it not
             | fair game then for society to completely ignore my desires
             | and needs? Like, ok, lets say our courts have no
             | jurisdiction over you, but then it also follows that we can
             | just shoot you dead where you stand and move on with our
             | society. I get that it feels unfair to be born into rules
             | you didn't agree to, but a second's reflection makes it
             | obvious the other alternative is not at all a good one.
        
               | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
               | > how is it not fair game then for society to completely
               | ignore my desires and needs?
               | 
               | Best I can tell, it already does this. Not saying I
               | believe the lunatic sovereign citizen horseshit, about
               | how if they spell my name in all uppercase letters on the
               | paperwork, I'm not subject to courts of law...
               | 
               | But yeh, they're definitely completely ignoring my
               | desires and needs. Yours too. Some people are just slow
               | to catch on.
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | That was the attitude of the dude down the road from me who
           | started his own impromptu pig farm. The folks who are
           | outraged by what they can't do on their own land often also
           | are the folks who don't think beyond step 1 and don't care if
           | their pig shit stinks and runs off everywhere.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | It does depend on location. My town, for example, is a
             | "right to farm" community which--while it doesn't give you
             | carte blanche to do anything you want that's agriculture-
             | related on your property--does give fairly broad latitude.
        
               | duxup wrote:
               | It really depends on the setting.
               | 
               | Local city allows chickens (just a few) and out by me
               | some towns allow a lot more, but there's also proper
               | space to do those things.
               | 
               | Pig farm guy was right on the border and he did NOT have
               | enough space for a bunch of pigs. Thankfully the town
               | already had rules about pigs. Pig farms STINK.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | It turns out that we live in a society. And these days the
           | main risk to human survival before middle age is other
           | humans.
        
           | mattclarkdotnet wrote:
           | Isn't ownership of land regulated by the state pretty much
           | everywhere?
        
             | K0balt wrote:
             | Depends on what you mean by pretty much anywhere. Outside
             | of the actual cities in Alaska for example you won't find
             | many restrictions. Many countries in the developing world
             | also are essentially unregulated.
        
           | Tangurena2 wrote:
           | The issue is "water rights". In Western states, somebody owns
           | that water already. The rain might fall on your house, but it
           | normally flows into some creek/stream/river where the legal
           | and moral rights to that water belong to someone else.
           | Capturing that water is legally considered theft. In
           | Colorado, for example, every bit of river water was allocated
           | to someone before Colorado became a state.
           | 
           | One book that covers the history of water projects in the US
           | is Cadillac Desert [0]. We have this cultural myth that all
           | we need is a little more water to make the desert bloom. And
           | as a country, we've wasted trillions of dollars diverting
           | rivers for agricultural use. Agricultural users of water pay
           | almost nothing for their water while using enormous amounts
           | of taxpayer funding to do so. Utah and Arizona have recently
           | had droughts where water consumption by private citizens was
           | limited.
           | 
           | There are several crops that use enormous amounts of water,
           | the one receiving attention is alfalfa. 82% of Utah's water
           | is consumed by agriculture. The UT governor owns a farm that
           | grows alfalfa for export. Instead of cutting back on his own
           | farm's water consumption, he's been on radio & TV telling
           | Utahns to pray for rain. Arizona has had some recent news
           | stories about Saudi companies growing alfalfa in AZ and
           | exporting the hay to Saudi Arabia. Alfalfa consumes so much
           | water that growing it in Saudi Arabia is illegal. Amusingly,
           | `alfalfa` is an Arabic word. The issue with AZ & UT is that
           | there is plenty of taxpayer subsidized water to grow alfalfa
           | for export while simultaneously rationing residential water
           | consumption.
           | 
           | 0 - https://www.amazon.com/Cadillac-Desert-American-
           | Disappearing...
        
       | ajot wrote:
       | Site must have received an HN hug of death, so not sure what
       | method it reccomends.
       | 
       | There's a (university research group?) called WOT that uploads
       | videos to Youtube with different low cost/low tech techniques, my
       | favorite one being with a hand drill:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRhsoSCXvg
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | Probably want to read this first, particularly if you live in a
       | western USA state:
       | 
       | https://waterfilterguru.com/is-it-legal-to-drill-your-own-we...
       | 
       | Shrinking aquifers and neighbors drilling wells just a bit deeper
       | than their neighbor's wells have contributed to a long-standing
       | conflict over water access, see Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner
       | for the historical origins of conflicts.
       | 
       | "Whiskey is for drinking, water is for fighting!" - Mark Twain
        
         | oceanplexian wrote:
         | If you live in a dry, western state, there's a 100% chance this
         | won't work. I live in the Southwest, and outside of some
         | exceptions wells go down a thousand feet or more. You ain't
         | doing that without heavy equipment.
        
           | bagels wrote:
           | USGS has maps of water well depths. 250 feet at my house,
           | definitely would be "ambitious" to diy that depth.
        
         | tspike wrote:
         | This is equivalent to people fretting over using plastic
         | drinking straws when certain industrial uses are exempt from
         | environmental laws. The vast, vast majority of aquifer
         | depletion is for impractical crops that should never be grown
         | where they are and wouldn't be if our water rights laws made
         | any sense.
         | 
         | You tapping in one of these wells means very little in the
         | context of this important topic.
        
           | DoingIsLearning wrote:
           | > The vast, vast majority of aquifer depletion is for
           | impractical crops.
           | 
           | And collection at spring source from water bottling companies
           | let's please not forget that environmental abuse.
           | 
           | Not all aquifers start underground.
        
       | enagrimm wrote:
       | very insightful
        
         | Joginda wrote:
         | indeed
        
       | tamimio wrote:
       | The problem is if that leads to water contamination, all it takes
       | some of these homemade drillers to contaminate it "by mistake"
       | with gasoline, oil, or even chemicals, with all what it means to
       | environment and people using the same water.
        
         | 4gotunameagain wrote:
         | Did you read the article? The method uses no gasoline, oil or
         | chemicals.
        
           | tamimio wrote:
           | I did, but accidents happen, those are usually farmers and
           | aren't trained engineers with all safety measures, someone
           | could have an oil tank nearby and someone/car bump into it or
           | similar scenarios.
        
             | 4gotunameagain wrote:
             | Someone could just as easily have an oil tank near a
             | legally drilled well, and contaminate everything.
        
               | amluto wrote:
               | In California, that legally drilled well has a sealed cap
               | and a concrete pad at the top. It's quite unlikely for
               | anything to spill down it unless there is a flood higher
               | than the cap.
               | 
               | (Neither of these things is expensive.)
        
               | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
               | I think he's talking about mid-construction, before it's
               | capped. That's when there is risk of contamination.
               | 
               | I'm not sure I agree that there is a risk then, but let's
               | at least be fair to the argument.
        
             | kylebenzle wrote:
             | So the concern is that a farmer will drill the well, pull
             | up the drill head, then accidentally spill a tank of oil
             | then the oil will go down the hole and... contaminate the
             | hole?
        
               | ooterness wrote:
               | In short, yes. The hole for the well works both ways;
               | it's a fast track for any surface-level pollutants to get
               | into the groundwater, contaminating it for everyone.
               | 
               | Local law may require barriers to prevent this, such as
               | an elevated concrete pad at the top of the well. This
               | how-to guide didn't mention anything like that. Permits
               | help ensure that important steps aren't skipped.
        
       | ufjfjjfjfj wrote:
       | Drilling a shallow well is easy with basic "tools"... It'd be
       | nice to be able to do a deep well though
        
       | dbrgn wrote:
       | I wondered how getting a permit in Switzerland would work.
       | 
       | According to some sources I found:
       | 
       | - You need to request a permit from your city and your canton's
       | water and sewage department
       | 
       | - To get a permit, you need a "proof of utility", so you can't
       | just dig a well for fun, it needs to bring some benefit.
       | 
       | - You need a written technical planning document as well,
       | including an analysis on the energy- and cost-efficiency of your
       | project
       | 
       | - If you want to drill down to the groundwater (for drinking
       | water quality), you need additional analyses being done, to prove
       | that the project conforms to standards and causes no harm.
       | 
       | It sure sounds fun to have your own well, but I think I'll stick
       | to collecting rain water.
        
         | finnjohnsen2 wrote:
         | You're digging your own well to out society to begin with. It
         | is a scratch in the pain for such a project to have proper
         | paperwork in order.
         | 
         | I'm joking ofcourse, but not 100%
        
         | verisimi wrote:
         | Just do it. Live a little.
        
           | j-a-a-p wrote:
           | Digging a well after dark also adds to the experience.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Oh well...
        
         | VoodooJuJu wrote:
         | Reminds me of this, _what boomers needed vs what I need_ :
         | https://ifunny.co/picture/an-258534577-82-258535541-258535-1...
        
           | mindslight wrote:
           | I'm quite sympathetic to the overall trend. But nearly half
           | those listed things are effectively optional things to
           | protect himself or make his life easier - eg you do not
           | _need_ an LLC, but you surely do _want_ one. Another near
           | half are to protect others from himself as he is putting
           | himself out there as a business, as he is employing workers
           | or subjecting customers to his work. There could certainly be
           | more small-business-friendly ways to handle these things [0],
           | but earlier periods weren 't solving them and at least now
           | there is an attempt. So this particular critique doesn't ring
           | true for me.
           | 
           | The proper comparison is looking at what it takes to do it
           | for yourself or a friend. Of that list, that's probably just
           | permit/inspection, which is hard to talk about generally
           | because it's going to vary per locale. Although you really do
           | want the backhoe.
           | 
           | [0] just spitballing an example, worker injury insurance
           | could be provided more by the state from the general fund.
        
         | poulsbohemian wrote:
         | Where I work as a Realtor, it's generally possible to drill a
         | well for domestic use. It will typically run about $20K and as
         | we have a high water table, they generally hit water around 60
         | feet and will take the well down to around 250 feet if they
         | want to "future proof" it. Deepest well in our area that I've
         | heard of is around 900 feet and that was considered really rare
         | / extreme.
         | 
         | Where homeowners become conflicted is that well gives them the
         | rights to domestic use and to water a basic yard, but nothing
         | beyond that. You are quickly in to "water rights" which can
         | become complex and limiting. More and more we are seeing water
         | masters (a state role) take away rights from landowners who are
         | not fully using their water rights. For example, if the land
         | was previously farmed but has now gone fallow and the water
         | right has not been used, the state will revoke it - and there's
         | a 0.0% chance of ever getting it back. This sometimes leads to
         | cases where people (farmers) overuse their water to ensure they
         | are demonstrating usage, but then of course that can lead to
         | fines for overuse. No question water is going to be a defining
         | issue in the American west for the foreseeable future.
        
       | solomonb wrote:
       | Is this at all viable in Southern California? My gut says no, but
       | I would love to be wrong.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Is this for drinking water? And what depths can be reached with
       | this method? I wish these were stated more clearly; I'm guessing
       | "not drinking", based on:
       | 
       | > It is great for saving money on watering your lawn and
       | irrigating a garden.
       | 
       | Off topic: as a non native English speaker, the title made me
       | pause. As in, why would I want to drill my water and do it
       | well?... oh, water well, right.
        
         | NotYourLawyer wrote:
         | No, the website says this is generally non potable water.
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | They state it is for irrigation only. You can use the same
         | technique for drinking water in some places, but it really
         | depends on local soil conditions (meaning even if your neighbor
         | has safe water you might not get safe water!) and the care
         | taking when drilling the well. If you do try this, after
         | drilling and sealing the well you chlorinate the water (to kill
         | anything you introduced), wait a week, then have a proper lab
         | test, if the lab says it is safe to drink you are fine. The lab
         | test should be repeated every 3 months (almost nobody does, but
         | that is what the labs tell you)
         | 
         | You can sometimes work around this by installing filters (RO
         | and otherwise), and UV lights. However you need lab results to
         | tell you what filters to install, and you need to keep those
         | filters maintained.
        
         | friend_and_foe wrote:
         | The quality of the water depends on the location.
         | 
         | This particular method of drilling a well works in sandy soil
         | or clay where the water table isn't very deep. If you're in
         | mountains or on any topology with bedrock you'll need better
         | equipment, particularly a carbide or diamond tipped bit. And
         | you'll be drilling potentially hundreds of feet. Something like
         | this would most certainly not work in Colorado, it would
         | probably work in Florida or Louisiana.
        
         | AngryData wrote:
         | I certainly wouldn't drink water out of a shallow well most
         | places. It is worth every penny to get someone to drill a 200
         | foot well and not have to worry about contamination for
         | drinking.
        
       | bochoh wrote:
       | My 5 year plan includes building a shed with power, then adding a
       | self driven well and adding the capacity to switch irrigation off
       | city water to the shed source (tm). In the northeast so no real
       | water concerns here
        
       | stedman wrote:
       | Hella ASMR from listening to this guy
        
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