[HN Gopher] Is there a fifth fundamental force of nature?
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Is there a fifth fundamental force of nature?
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 29 points
Date : 2023-08-24 17:59 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bigthink.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (bigthink.com)
| meindnoch wrote:
| Yes. The force of love!
| olddustytrail wrote:
| That's not a force. It's a multiple of the distance.
|
| Which is why absence makes the heart grow fonder.
| finite_depth wrote:
| [dead]
| smegger001 wrote:
| Arguably love is a attractive force, but if it scales with
| distance than we could potentially counter cosmic expansion
| by separating couples and sending them in rockets flying in
| opposed directions
| doodlebugging wrote:
| I don't think this will work if either member travels with
| someone else who is not the other part of their couple. The
| default for as long as I can remember is pretty simple, if
| you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're
| with. Therefore, love's attractive force would fluctuate
| too much to ever counter anything cosmically.
| doctor_eval wrote:
| Is that love? Or just entanglement?
| hawk_ wrote:
| That's not a fundamental force and the insinuation made me
| dislike the otherwise nice movie, Interstellar.
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Alternatively, Love is the Fifth Element, according to Bruce
| Willis.
| Eupraxias wrote:
| Close - how about compassion?
| [deleted]
| tracker1 wrote:
| Insert Mister Mxyzptlk reference...
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| [flagged]
| the__alchemist wrote:
| I felt a strange loss; to know that maybe this time, we really
| have learned the core of physics; a claim made many times in
| the past, and always proven wrong. BLOH is so reliable, it
| makes me legitimately worried there may not be another force.
|
| Perhaps only the weak form here applies; the answer isn't "no",
| but the headline provides no information on the topic? The
| strong form is, regrettably, the common one.
| bemusedthrow75 wrote:
| > Perhaps only the weak form here applies
|
| Oh you're just appeasing the God of The Gaps ;-)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Shout out to the sibling comment: maybe BLOH IS the fifth
| force, ironically.
| bemusedthrow75 wrote:
| Betteridge's Law of Headlines does sometimes feel like a
| fundamental force of nature.
| xenadu02 wrote:
| Answer: No.
|
| If another field exists its effects are so vanishingly minuscule
| and force carriers so rare we can ignore it because there are no
| observational consequences.
|
| Remember we discovered an extremely weak field that has no
| obvious observational consequences (the weak force and the Z/W
| bosons) because there were gaps in the then standard model that
| begged for an explanation.
|
| Besides the obvious gravity problem the standard model doesn't
| have many gaps left into which one can squeeze a new force and
| its field/carrier particles.
| archgoon wrote:
| So there are 5 observed bosons, and one postulated graviton.
|
| The strong force is associaed with the gluon.
|
| The Electromagnetism gets the photon.
|
| The Weak force gets the Z and W+/- bosons.
|
| Gravity gets the graviton, but that's mostly a placeholder since
| we don't know how to properly model gravitational effects with
| QFT.
|
| Higgs doesn't get associated with a force (yet).
| PaulHoule wrote:
| It's not that hard to model gravity with a QFT, there are so
| many ways to do quantum gravity now. The problem is deciding
| which one is right and the answer to that might involve looking
| inside a black hole or at energy scales of 10^19 GeV, length
| scales of 10^-35m, etc.
| lanza wrote:
| In the classical sense of "a QFT" then no there are no ways
| to do QG. The computations diverge. In the extended sense
| where you let yourself include non-QFT-like things like
| strings and spin foams, then sure.
| sojuz151 wrote:
| But the fact that the computation diverges is not a problem
| by itself. All QFT diverge but this can be fixed by
| renormalisation. Problem is that for gravity this would
| require infinity many parameters and the theory could match
| any observation
| pa7x1 wrote:
| There are 8 gluons, in fact.
|
| There is not very good reason why the Higgs interaction is not
| called a force. I wouldn't read too much into it, tradition
| carries a lot of weight in how people call things.
|
| We could even measure the attractive force it generates:
| jhttps://arxiv.org/abs/1601.05087
| labster wrote:
| The Law of Fives is never wrong!
|
| Incidentally Eris is the one who ordered the Muon.
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