[HN Gopher] New Windows updates cause UNSUPPORTED_PROCESSOR blue...
___________________________________________________________________
New Windows updates cause UNSUPPORTED_PROCESSOR blue screens
Author : mikece
Score : 80 points
Date : 2023-08-24 16:15 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
| UberFly wrote:
| Yet another reason not to install the preview updates.
| tw04 wrote:
| I think people might need to put the pitchforks down. It's a
| preview release, and we have 0 information on the systems in
| question. You can easily avoid the issue by not participating in
| the early release program.
|
| Finding issues like this is literally why the preview program
| exists. Should they have caught this with internal testing?
| Maybe, we don't have enough information to know.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> I think people might need to put the pitchforks down. It's a
| preview release, and we have 0 information on the systems in
| question._
|
| Yeah, but making this info clear in the title doesn't drive the
| pitchfork driven clickbait FUD that seems to be invading HN
| lately.
|
| Nearly half of Windows 11 related topics I read here lately
| were mistakenly titled or factually wrong, and yet full of rage
| comments of people who haven't even read the article, or don't
| even use Windows, but came by to tell everyone they use Arch or
| MacOS.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| >drive the pitchfork driven clickbait FUD that seems to be
| invading HN lately.
|
| This isn't "lately", HN has been this way since at least 2017
| when I started reading. If you didn't notice it, that's on
| you. Almost nobody has ever read the articles on HN.
| toasteros wrote:
| Indeed no pitchforks, but I can see where some concern has come
| from. On the release of Windows 11 it was stated that only
| newer Intel and AMD generations were to be officially supported
| and while workarounds are built in (literally a registry flag
| in the installer) to install on even a Pentium 4 [1], they came
| with a warning from Microsoft that installations in such
| environments "may not receive updates".
|
| Is it therefore possible that this bug check is being
| implemented as part of the journey towards _actually_ dropping
| "support" for these CPUs?
|
| Indeed, it's a preview release, and the Insider program is
| amazing for getting insight into Windows development and it
| shouldn't be held up to the same level of journalistic scrutiny
| as a sanctioned general release, but I can absolutely see why
| this particular change may have raised some eyebrows.
|
| [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivrlU73VcHw
| tw04 wrote:
| > Is it therefore possible that this bug check is being
| implemented as part of the journey towards actually dropping
| "support" for these CPUs?
|
| That seems entirely possible. That being said, I'm not sure
| I'm going to be upset about them dropping support for a
| 20-year old CPU built on an architecture that I think is
| pretty widely accepted as a failure.
| auguzanellato wrote:
| > I'm not sure I'm going to be upset about them dropping
| support for a 20-year old CPU
|
| Windows 11 doesn't support CPUs that are 6 years old (Intel
| 7th gen) that are still ok by today standards
| toasteros wrote:
| The Pentium 4 is an extreme example, and I admit I used it
| quite dishonestly to over-emphasise the fact that Windows
| 11 _runs_ on CPUs that it claims not to _support_.
|
| A 7th or 6th gen Intel would run Windows 11 quite well,
| unlike a Pentium 4 which struggles a great deal with it.
| Despite that, without workarounds, you cannot install Win
| 11 on one of these CPUs. You must have an 8th gen or later.
| arprocter wrote:
| I see the buggy 'preview' updates offered on all my Windows
| 10 and 11 machines, and none of them are signed up for
| Insider
| mig39 wrote:
| Preview means preview. It doesn't automatically download
| and install.
|
| You have to actually opt in and download the preview. Then
| you'll be part of the preview :-)
| arprocter wrote:
| 10 does state "Optional" but 11 doesn't (although there
| is an x to dismiss it)
|
| These always struck me as an odd middle ground between
| regular updates and Insider
|
| fwiw my very 'unsupported' 11 Dell box seems okay with
| this update installed. All the Reddit folks getting the
| error are on Intel MSI boards
| tracker1 wrote:
| I was on insiders for years, switched for WSL1... I switched
| over to using Linux as my personal desktop OS when I first
| say ad results in the Windows start menu search. It may have
| been preview, but was just one thing too far that someone
| would even consider it. I still have a windows drive in my
| desktop, I only booted into it once a few months ago to
| update my ssd/nvme firmware (samsung bugfix).
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Agreed, vitriol not required.
|
| Still, Microsoft gutted their internal testing, so they hold
| some blame for disastrous failure, even during preview.
| Stranger43 wrote:
| It's always puzzled me how much <insert appropriate epithet
| here> people are willing to take from Microsoft for products
| they pay good money for, without ever considering that there
| might be an world where not everyone buys their software from
| the same vendor.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Almost nobody buys Windows though. The vast majority of
| users get given a laptop with windows on it from work,
| where the robust AD system is pretty great, though O365 is
| a letdown in a lot of ways, and the rest get Windows pre-
| installed on their laptops from the store, where microsoft
| gives OEMs a sick deal.
|
| The only people who "buy" Windows are those who build their
| own gaming machine. Even then, they usually buy a sketchy
| "volume license" key off ebay.
|
| I bought windows retail, because I actually like the
| Windows kernel, and despise running pretty much any install
| of Linux that isn't just a command line to boot daemons and
| web servers from. I use my computer every single goddamn
| day, and don't ever want it to randomly break, which Linux
| has always done to me. The steam deck is the first Linux
| install that hasn't been utterly useless or shit the bed on
| me.
|
| Every single problem I have had in Windows has been caused
| by shitty hardware, or AMDs abysmal drivers.
| Stranger43 wrote:
| Thats kind of not true, someone bought windows(and not as
| cheap as people think) it's just that nobody really sees
| it as something different from the computer because it's
| bundled.
|
| Enterprises pay a surprising amount of money to Microsoft
| usually in the form of monthly/annual pr user licenses(to
| the time of double digit percentages of the end user
| device budget) and yet no amount of badness seem to make
| anyone in those Enterprise departments think that they
| have any alternative and it's the same in the laptop
| space, where despite having to fork out whats often a
| double digit percentage of the retail price to Microsoft
| there is no serious appetite from hardware vendors or
| consumers to consider that maybe we could have a market
| where multiple Operating systems coexisted.
|
| And your driver argument is exactly the weirdness here as
| people will absolutely hold anyone but
| Microsoft(especially smaller opensource competitors)
| responsible for bad drivers but with windows it's
| suddenly an valid excuse for bad experiences with
| windows.
| ramblerman wrote:
| I'm torn on this.
|
| I'm really happy with where MS is going, I think they have been
| killing it with vs code, chatgpt integration, and I was quite
| bullish on the surface pros.
|
| But after having owned one for 1 month, they were still a real
| disaster in the OS area. I "subscribed" to the preview track,
| and had to reformat my pc twice. It was a fricking disaster.
| I'm back on osx now, having sold the surface pro.
|
| Hardware and OS is still very much their weakpoint imo. It's
| like the whole OS is designed by product owners working on
| macbook pros (which apparantly isn't far from the truth)
| laserdancepony wrote:
| > I "subscribed" to the preview track, and had to reformat my
| pc twice.
|
| "I subscribed to test betas and they were unstable. Thanks
| Bill Gates!"
| tracker1 wrote:
| I ran insiders since later windows 8.1 updates... I had to
| reinstall a couple times, when the win11 went full release
| (didn't have secure boot and tpm enabled and it broke
| itself) and there was another bug a few months later. What
| really irked me into leaving was that someone thought it
| was cool to show literal ads in the start menu search
| results. Insiders or not, that's something that is just
| wrong. I changed my default boot to my linux drive and
| haven't looked back on my personal desktop.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| Yeah, I also don't get how people voluntarily choose to use
| a beta OS, and then complain that it broke.
|
| Like, my brother in Christ, that's why there's the stable
| version of that OS.
| ramblerman wrote:
| Yeah this is the sarcastic take, but MS pushes people to
| get onto the insider preview to enable certain features. My
| surface pro wouldn't sleep properly, and only the "insider
| preview" would fix that for instance.
|
| There is a difference between having a few apps crash more
| often, and literally having the offical MS help tell you,
| the only solution is to reinstall everything.
| Shared404 wrote:
| This being the case on MS's own hardware is actually
| ridiculous.
|
| And unsurprising.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I've sworn off Windows as an OS after multiple dealbreakers:
| advertisements in the OS, and hard reboots with no warning.
|
| I understand there are workarounds - such as buying a non-
| personal Windows license, and fiddling with the registry -
| but that's like selling me a car that'll shut its engine off
| on the highway and force me to listen to its own
| advertisements while I'm using a bluetooth device, and
| assuring me that I can adjust the behavior. If I know how. If
| I even know that's possible. If I'm willing to pay more.
| tracker1 wrote:
| Yeah, running insiders and seeing an advert in the start
| menu search was the final straw for me. I've used it for
| work a couple times, but mostly choose Mac, only because
| the corp apple experience isn't as bad as corp Windows can
| get.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > I "subscribed" to the preview track, and had to reformat my
| pc twice. It was a fricking disaster. I'm back on osx
|
| Are you tracking the pre-release versions of MacOS?
| summerlight wrote:
| The problem is that they're not meeting their own baseline
| standard. ~10 years ago, MS didn't frequently make these kinds
| of issues even in the early release program. I suspect
| something's broken in their Windows org.
| [deleted]
| nehal3m wrote:
| >"Microsoft has received reports of an issue in which users are
| receiving an 'UNSUPPORTED_PROCESSOR' error message on a blue
| screen after installing updates released on August 2," Redmond
| said.
|
| >The company also added that the problematic cumulative updates
| "might automatically uninstall to allow Windows to start up as
| expected."
|
| "Might"? What a weaselly way to put it. Either Windows will, or
| it won't. I realise there's tens of millions of LoC but if we're
| talking about an update that crashes machines shouldn't you know
| what the failure mode is before talking to the press?
| mplewis wrote:
| When an issue is at this scale, you have to give some
| acknowledgment of the issue even if you don't know its cause.
| nehal3m wrote:
| Agreed, but then you'd expect a behemoth like MS to respond
| that they're aware, working on finding cause for the issue
| and releasing a fix. What they did here is throw out a 'maybe
| it'll fix itself'.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| For end users, it's pretty important to know whether their
| system is hosed or will fix itself
| kube-system wrote:
| Linguistically, "might" could also mean "will under certain
| circumstances". It doesn't definitively imply they don't know.
|
| I myself have used "might" when speaking to customers when the
| criteria by which _we_ would differentiate is something that
| isn 't necessarily accessible to the audience.
| nehal3m wrote:
| Yeah I guess you're right. If that's the case I'd expect the
| journalist to ask some follow up questions to broadly define
| in which circumstances it would or wouldn't.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| There's a recent Windows feature called Known Issue
| Rollback (KIR) that you would have to opt into using Group
| Policy, which might soon address an anticipated snafu like
| this, once it's become apparent after deployment:
|
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-
| clien...
|
| Here's last month's article from the same author giving an
| example of how KIR can be used to mitigate a video
| showstopper at the time:
|
| https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-
| fi...
|
| My follow-up consisted of following the journalist back,
| and that might give an idea about what he had in mind.
| nehal3m wrote:
| That's awesome. Both the feature and you leading by
| example.
|
| Thank you!
| Stranger43 wrote:
| That assumes that the company lets journalist talk to non
| marketing people.
|
| The term might in marketing department vetted
| communications often cover over "the techies droned out for
| 10 minutes using words we did not understand" and few large
| brands feel that comfortable letting anyone not under some
| kind of confidentiality agreement talk to anyone in the
| technical teams.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Everything seems to be from the linked text source so I
| doubt the journalist actually got to interact with
| Microsoft at all.
| Jenk wrote:
| I was aghast that you cannot move the taskbar. Now I am forced to
| keep it in the least optimal orientation. On my employer-provided
| system that is. No way is that dumpster fire of privacy invading,
| 80% baked UX, nonsense getting anywhere near my own devices.
| duxup wrote:
| >the August 2023 preview updates
|
| I don't understand what the point of preview updates are if MS
| says they're not beta updates.
|
| Is it just a place for say corporate IT to test to decide if they
| want to do the next monthly update?
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| Windows XP - Windows 7 for many years.
|
| Then I turned to the dark side and bought a used cheese grater
| Mac Pro (dual CPU Xeon) for a few years before and I always found
| OSX weird - dropping to command line on occasion to get things
| done and definitely not very friendly but tolerated it for the
| sake of the hardware.
|
| When I started the SAP part of my career, I got a Windows 7
| laptop for SAPGUI and realized it was nicer - the Mac Pro went to
| a new home after I had to hack the boot firmware to install
| Sierra and realized the bells was tolling on the hardware.
|
| Could not afford a Mac Pro replacement so I bought a Dell - A
| decent specced Mac Studio M2 (64GB) would cost me more than my
| car is worth.
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| Most popular OS on planet earth and they can't afford testing
| their software on popular CPUs
|
| These execs and managers should be criminally charged
| Karellen wrote:
| Are you sure it isn't only happening on unpopular CPUs? I
| couldn't see anything about which CPU makes/gens/models are
| affected in the article?
| deely3 wrote:
| I agree with you. Except for criminal charge. There no complex,
| big, up-to-date and bug-free program in a world.
| lacoolj wrote:
| The website linked here (an advertiser) just requested to run a
| custom URL handler (launch something outside of chrome). Most sus
| thing I've come across in a while
| bitwize wrote:
| When Microsoft says "your CPU needs to be this high in order to
| run Windows 11", perhaps listen to them eh?
| tom_ wrote:
| There's a Microsoft note about this issue:
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/sta...
|
| The list of affected operating systems supposedly includes
| Windows 10, version 22H2.
| rstat1 wrote:
| If their supported CPU list wasn't completely arbitrary BS,
| then you might be on something here. But it isn't There are
| CPUs that have no problem running the OS that are for no
| discernible reason "not supported".
|
| And I'm not talking about old crap like Pentium 4s or
| something. I'm talking about ones that are barely 5yrs old.
| bitwize wrote:
| Microsoft is moving to a model of "signed software from power
| on to application level" for Windows. The supported CPUs have
| the TPM features necessary to support this transition.
|
| Presumably, for Windows 12, remote attestation capability
| (Pluton) will be required.
| ndriscoll wrote:
| Right and for the home user, there is exactly zero benefit
| from this. There is no reason someone should have to go buy
| a new computer to replace one that's only 5 years old. A
| world where local accounts are an enterprise feature and
| hardware attestation is a home feature is completely
| backwards.
| TillE wrote:
| It would be trivial for Microsoft to strictly enforce their CPU
| "requirements" on install. They've chosen not to.
|
| The workaround for that isn't some weird hack, it's an explicit
| registry value that they made.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| I don't think end users are supposed to change registry
| values (even IT admins aren't, as they can use GPO). That
| qualifies it as a 'weird hack' in my book.
| FreshStart wrote:
| Wtf.. Come on its just ms getting kickbacks for deprecating
| hardware.
| whalesalad wrote:
| My experience with Windows 11 has been roughly bug free - but
| it's not a pleasant place to be. Installing is a nightmare too
| with the online account requirement. You can circumvent with a
| shell but still annoying.
|
| I've been much happier with Debian 12 and KDE for my primary
| workstation.
|
| I can't think of a compelling to use windows outside of gaming.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| > Installing is a nightmare too with the online account
| requirement.
|
| My nightmare, before the account shenanigans, was finding a
| mouse for my HP laptop, whose trackpad didn't work OOB. Then,
| once I'd managed to go through the installation, the account
| thing was a PITA because the Intel wifi card wasn't supported,
| and this laptop doesn't have a wired network port. I was
| actually going to use an MS account (this is a work computer,
| and they're all in on MS). But I couldn't set it up without
| jumping through the hoops of creating a local account first and
| then grabbing the wifi drivers by booting Linux.
|
| This happened mid-2023 with a 2020 model laptop. Also, HP
| recommends Windows. Arch Linux worked fully out of the box.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| Ah, yes, Gates personally banned the drivers for this 2020
| WiFi cards.
|
| Or maybe it was Intel who did a bazillion of cards with a
| minor diffs and/or didn't ask MS to add this flavour to the
| default driver set, shipped with Windows install media?
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| Those are pretty standard Intel cards installed on laptops
| with Intel CPUs. ax201 or something. If "nothing-ever-
| works-without-fiddling" Linux is able to ship drivers for
| that card and work out of the box, I don't see why windows
| couldn't ship with drivers for that, especially since they
| seem to get updates via Windows update, so ms has them.
| Plus, if you're going to force people to use an _internet_
| account, maybe make sure that they 'll actually be able to
| get online?
|
| Or maybe the whole point of not supporting the touchpad was
| to weed off the faint of heart and send them off to Linux?
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > Those are pretty standard Intel cards installed on
| laptops with Intel CPUs. ax201 or something
|
| If they were 'pretty standard' then they would be in the
| default list of drivers shipped with install media.
|
| If they weren't in the install media then:
|
| your media is older than the drivers
|
| your device isn't 'standard'
|
| device vendor doesn't give a shit if you can reinstall
| Windows and get the working WiFi out of the box
|
| > , I don't see why windows couldn't ship with drivers
| for that
|
| _Because Intel does not give a fuck_. It 's that simple
| and it is borderline ridiculous how linux fanboys can't
| accept what Windows has a completely different driver
| model compared to built-in-the-kernel way of Linux.
|
| And again, where did you got your install media for
| Windows? Directly from
| https://www.microsoft.com/software-download/windows10 ?
| Somewhere else?
|
| > Or maybe the whole point of not supporting the touchpad
|
| Can you ask Synaptic (or whoever made that touchpad) why
| there is no drivers for their touchpad in the default
| Windows install media or why it's not just a simple HID
| pointing device? Or again that's Nadella's fault or
| whoever at the lead now?
| mrguyorama wrote:
| I haven't used a device that Windows didn't ship drivers
| for _In twenty years_!
| tuetuopay wrote:
| I recently had the (dis)pleasure to install Windows 10 on
| a Dell XPS laptop from 2018. The Windows installer had no
| drivers for the nvme controller _that is provided by the
| CPU itself_, so a platform controller.
|
| Oh and getting the installer to recognize the drivers was
| much harder than the usual "stick the files on a thumb
| drive, plug to laptop, tell the installer". I had to
| generate a custom Windows ISO with the drivers
| preinstalled, for which the process is described by a
| single indian dude on a website very sparsely indexed by
| google.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| Yep, just as I said in the previous comment: everyone is
| at fault but for sure it wasn't the vendor of the device!
| How the vendor could be the culprit in doing something
| what would cripple the boot/install of the OS? Nonsense!
| tuetuopay wrote:
| The vendor? Ha! Let me laugh.
|
| Would this have tripped on some obscure device specific
| to Dell laptops, sure, I would understand. (like their
| blimey fingerprint reader). But this is the standard NVMe
| controller on this generation of intel CPUs. The drivers
| are common for _most intel platforms_: the Intel Rapid
| Storage Technology.
|
| As somebody else pointed out, Linux fares much better in
| this space. All devices are properly recognized out of
| the box, including this bog-standard NVMe controller.
| DanTheManPR wrote:
| What keeps me trapped using Windows on my main home workstation
| is simply that a lot of the professional software I use is
| Windows-only, and always will be.
|
| Fortunately, the advancements in Proton and better cross-
| platform support for a lot of software has let me use Linux on
| my gaming computer and notebook. There are a few games which I
| can't play, but honestly there's so many options available that
| I don't miss them much. I don't think I'll ever completely
| eliminate Windows from my life, I think around 2021 was The
| Year Of Linux On The Desktop for me.
| jonhohle wrote:
| It's somewhat ironic that Windows users used to call Macs "toy
| computers". Now most deeply technical people are using Macs or
| at least Linux or BSD and Windows is relegated to games. It
| seems Windows is for toy computers ;-)
| laserdancepony wrote:
| I've never heard crap like that in my life before.
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| I don't know any technical people who use Macs with OSX still
| installed.
|
| They all gave up on that trainwreck of an OS, and either
| their final Mac died and they replaced it with an even better
| laptop by a different vendor (Framework, et al), or they
| still own a Mac but it now runs Windows or Linux (and when
| that one dies, it will be their last, and they will become
| post-Mac, too). I know exceptionally few tech people with M1,
| and they bought it knowing they had to suffer the rough edges
| of Asahi; I do not know a single tech person who bought an M1
| and left OSX on it.
|
| The number of Macs in existence only goes down, not up;
| doubly so in the tech world.
|
| I don't get why theres a few people on HN that persist in the
| FUD+FOMO combo that OSX is gonna make a comeback and win
| because "its a Unix!" and "Apple takes security seriously!"
| and "Safari is world's best browser!" and "Swift is a great
| language to code in, even if it doesn't work on other OSes!"
| and "I use XCode unironically!"
|
| Just stop already, we've all heard it. Repeating it doesn't
| make it true.
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| I always notice it during conferences since Keynote is
| great at making slides :)
| tibbydudeza wrote:
| OS X is a just a fancy bootloader for Aqua.
| failuser wrote:
| Are all those technical people Linux kernel hackers? Maybe
| even just hackers, running a some BSD OS.
|
| You should realize "I don't know people who do X" is a very
| weak argument.
| whalesalad wrote:
| What the heck are you on about? This is patently false.
| I've been using Mac hardware professionally since 05 in a
| ton of different environments. We very rarely had issues.
| Apple makes the best laptops in the world, nothing else
| comes remotely close.
| politelemon wrote:
| Haven't found this to be true at all, what I do see is
| osx users not realizing they have problems or simply
| pretending it never happened.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Examples? I've been CTO at multiple companies (+ managing
| IT rollout) including a defense contractor who relies
| heavily on MS infrastructure. At the end of the day Apple
| has always been the most pain free shit periodt. It
| literally just works.
|
| I've gone so far as to deploy M1 Mini's in factory
| environments to run production processes for very large
| scale printing operations (think Amazon, Walgreens, tons
| of orders daily) and guess what I haven't been called in
| over a year because it is all rock solid.
| CacheRules wrote:
| well that's just like your opinion man
| whalesalad wrote:
| aluminum chassis master race.
| gumballindie wrote:
| Battery aside apple laptops are rather lame.
| gumballindie wrote:
| > Windows is relegated to games.
|
| Unless you absolutely must play ea games then even that can
| be done on linux rather nicely.
| nullindividual wrote:
| Windows runs the largest of enterprises. Very few go without
| at least Active Directory.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Fortunately the enterprise IT seems to be slowly waking up
| to the realization that AD is just LDAP wrapped in a thick
| layer of (very expensive) Microsoft epoxy and glue.
|
| OSS is alive and well in the enterprise!
| runjake wrote:
| What edition of Windows 11 are you using? I hear this a lot
| about the online account requirement but on my versions (Pro
| and Enterprise) you just select "Domain Join" and it bypasses
| the online account requirement.
|
| My guess is that a lot of people are using the crappy Home
| edition.
| toast0 wrote:
| > My guess is that a lot of people are using the crappy Home
| edition.
|
| What makes Home crappy? Other than the account thing,
| obviously. You can't join a domain with it either, but then
| most people don't have a domain at home. There's some other
| disabled features, like Hyper-V, but why should people have
| to pay for a higher tier Windows to use a local account if
| they don't need the other features?
| whalesalad wrote:
| I want to say RDP is limited to higher trims. I don't think
| you can Remote Desktop to home. But otherwise I agree with
| your points.
| toast0 wrote:
| Yeah, that seems familiar, but RDP hosting seems like
| another feature many people can live without / can mostly
| replace with other software for ocassional use.
| fuzzfactor wrote:
| With Home:
|
| you also don't have Bitlocker
|
| no Group Policy
|
| no Active Directory
| runjake wrote:
| - Hyper-V
|
| - RDP
|
| - Windows Sandbox (super neat and useful and under-
| appreciated!)
|
| - BitLocker
|
| - Active Directory
|
| - Local accounts, apparently
|
| - Various other little things and some local policies.
|
| I use all of the above Pro-only stuff.
|
| If my use of "crappy" offended you, please substitute the
| term "less-featureful".
|
| Other than that, I didn't say what Microsoft should or
| shouldn't do for home users. That's on you.
|
| It's my personal belief that multiple Windows 11 editions
| are insulting, and it should just be a single OS edition,
| with all features available, across the board.
| drbawb wrote:
| I did three installs of Pro this year. Two of them required
| hacks to force local account creation because the motherboard
| (Asus) ships with a _literal rootkit_ that injects a wireless
| driver that Windows itself does not ship with. So you either
| have to disable that in firmware before first boot to Windows
| OOBE, or run the BypassNRO cmdlet from a hidden shell to
| convince it that you do not, in fact, have internet access.
|
| I tried to domain join the third device to see what that flow
| is like. It asks:
|
| 1. Personal use / Work or School
|
| 2. You are asked to login to Azure AD. You have to click a
| small (10pt?) link for "Sign-in options." with no indication
| that will let you join to the domain.
|
| 3. Pick "Domain Join instead"
|
| 4. It asks you to setup a local account ("Even better, use an
| online account" :-)
|
| 5. _You finish setup without the device actually being joined
| to the domain!?_
|
| 6a. You now have to login (click)
|
| 6b. and go to the system settings (click)
|
| 6c. go to accounts (click, ad for M365),
|
| 6d. go to "Connect to work or school" (click),
|
| 6e. click another "Connect" button with no indication that it
| will join it to a domain,,
|
| 6f. Click another small link for "Join this device to a local
| Active Directory domain" to domain join the PC.
|
| So, I'm sorry, but if you think the Pro SKU is better in this
| regard you are just incorrect. There is no excuse for these
| dark patterns, this is user-hostile behavior designed to
| convert you to being recurring SaaS revenue and not retail
| revenue.
|
| As an added bonus I just tried to create a Windows 11 VM in
| hyper-v to confirm my memory, and _Microsoft Hyper-V_ doesn't
| even correctly configure itself to allow Windows installation
| to proceed by default. (Secure Boot enabled, but no vTPM.) It
| then proceeded to download updates to the installer and
| reboot without a prompt or any option to skip it. Microsoft
| _clearly does not give a shit_ about the OOBE if you are not
| using their cloud services.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Pro
|
| https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-
| windows-11-witho...
| theryan wrote:
| I'm confused by that as well. I've setup multiple machines
| this past year with Windows 11 and they are all just straight
| up local accounts.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| > I can't think of a compelling to use windows outside of
| gaming.
|
| - Office
|
| - Adobe
|
| - Ableton
|
| - Visual Studio
| BitwiseFool wrote:
| I'd also like to add that the Windows user experience is my
| "native language", if you will. I have no major problems
| using macOS, but I'm definitely not as fast using it, I find
| its window management cumbersome, and my muscle memory is
| constantly misfiring. I've been using Windows since childhood
| and there's something to be said for the level of familiarity
| and comfort that comes with that.
|
| That being said, I'm terribly frustrated with the direction
| Microsoft is taking Windows and I hope to stay off of 11 for
| as long as I can.
| rebolek wrote:
| I can't comment on Office, Adobe and Visual Studio, but for
| Ableton or any other DAW, I would certainly choose macOS over
| Windows. Audio runs much smoother on Mac than on Windows.
| Lower latency, less dropouts, better overall stability from
| my experience.
|
| Too bad that audio is total joke on Linux. There's very good
| software, like BitWig and Reaper, but the audio subsystem is
| total mess doing random stuff all the time. PipeWire seems
| promising but there are still problems. Maybe one day.
| nullindividual wrote:
| The Windows Audio Stack had improvements in Win 10 for
| latency.
|
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-
| hardware/drivers/a...
| pmontra wrote:
| I had to google Ableton.
| whalesalad wrote:
| If I needed all of those tools for my daily workflow I'd be
| on macOS without hesitation.
|
| Visual Studio as a developer for Windows apps is a different
| story... but then you have much bigger psychological issues
| I'm untrained to diagnose.
| politelemon wrote:
| Please read the guidelines on behavior in comments.
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Eh, they're both proprietary OSes. Maybe you're more used
| to the UI paradigms of one or the other, but other than
| that, I don't see a strong reason to prefer one or the
| other.
|
| Also, I personally don't use any of these tools except
| Office, but I'm pretty sure classing developers as having
| psychological issues based on their language ecosystem
| choice is against HN guidelines.
| whalesalad wrote:
| Under the hood macOS is Unix though... so there is a lot
| to be said for that. I can run tools like sed, awk, grep
| right out of the box. As someone who is in a shell 24x7
| on multiple remote linux servers it is nice to also have
| a very similar experience within my local desktop
| environment.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| So then you just `wsl --install` and you get a proper
| Linux distribution. Also get the Windows Terminal from
| the store and you're off to the races.
|
| I honestly consider this a better experience compared to
| Apple's BSD tools and lack of first-party package
| manager.
| whalesalad wrote:
| if you enjoy using windows, sure this is a perfectly
| valid option.
| gambiting wrote:
| >>Visual Studio as a developer for Windows apps is a
| different story... but then you have much bigger
| psychological issues I'm untrained to diagnose.
|
| WTF are you on about. Games development for PS5/Xbox and
| Switch only works on Windows, that's where the entire
| toolchain for these platforms is. It's not just windows
| apps. I love how so many people on HN like to pretend that
| Visual Studio isn't the most powerful IDE around, it's a
| powerhouse for developers and you'd need to pry it out of
| my cold dead hands.
| whalesalad wrote:
| I don't know a single dev who _enjoys_ using Visual
| Studio. It 's a necessary evil. Let's be real here.
| gambiting wrote:
| Do you actually know any devs who use Visual Studio? I
| work in a studio of hundreds of people using VS, been
| here for nearly a decade, and I'm yet to find someone who
| thinks VS is anything other than great. Yes it has its
| issues, like any dev tool, but otherwise it's probably
| the best piece of software to have come out of Microsoft,
| as a C++ developer I cannot imagine using anything else,
| no other IDE comes anywhere near in terms of features and
| usability.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> If I needed all of those tools for my daily workflow I'd
| be on macOS without hesitation._
|
| And how do switch my existing PC from Windows to MacOS,
| without spending money to buy new proprietary HW in a
| locked-down unrepairable unupgradable ecosystem that comes
| with insane markups on RAM and storage?
|
| At least Linux, works with what I already have and doesn't
| require me to spend money on proprietary HW and then spend
| more money on paid apps just to have some functioning
| window management out of the box. _:drops mic:_
| whalesalad wrote:
| Why not both? I own a handful of Mac machines, have a
| server rack in my basement loaded with R720s, and a
| 13900k beast Debian workstation on my desk. I'll
| occassionally rotate to my couch or a coffee shop and
| thanks to the wonders of SSH and wireguard I can access
| the rack and my workstation from anywhere while still
| having incredible all-day battery life (M2 Macbook Air).
| vscode+remote-ssh+tailscale is a killer combo.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> Why not both?_
|
| Because money. Owning a wide variety of premium HW,
| especially Apple, is a rare privileged wealthy western
| position. Most people on the planet own something in the
| ballpark of a ~$200 Lenovo/Acer as their main machine, so
| telling them to just buy an Apple and a 13th gen homelab,
| is like telling them "let them eat cake", especially that
| due to taxes and tariffs, HW in other countries often
| costs way more than in the US, despite much MUCH lower
| wages.
| whalesalad wrote:
| If you can afford a $1000 laptop, Apple is the way to go
| with an M1 Air (cheaper secondhand or with an education
| discount). If Apple hardware is unaffordable I would
| certainly opt for Linux.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> If you can afford a $1000 laptop, Apple is the way to
| go with an M1 Air_
|
| Thanks, but I'm contempt with my Ryzen laptop with double
| the ram and storage at half the price of an M1, as my
| main and only machine.
| whalesalad wrote:
| I have always had a soft spot for AMD. I have been
| meaning to build a Ryzen rig.
| hospitalJail wrote:
| >- Office
|
| >- Adobe
|
| >- Ableton
|
| >- Visual Studio
|
| Find alternative software. If those companies aren't
| compatible on Linux, use one that is.
|
| Make sure you send them an email explaining why you are
| canceling your subscription.
| at_a_remove wrote:
| That's really not an option for some industries. Mine, for
| example. When you're in a sufficiently niche market, you
| can't just "yay open source" your way out of the issue.
| isaacremuant wrote:
| > I can't think of a compelling to use windows outside of
| gaming.
|
| And thanks to Steam deck/proton, that gap is also decreasing
| significantly.
|
| Windows definitely has regressed in terms of user experience
| and updates/upgrades and online integration are two big pain
| points that really make me miss Linux (Ubuntu or Arch+lxde, if
| you want names) every time I'm there.
| nerdponx wrote:
| > The company also urged users encountering these BSOD errors to
| file a report using the Feedback Hub.
|
| > To do that, you will have to go through the following steps:
|
| > Launch Feedback Hub by opening the Start menu and typing
| "Feedback hub", or pressing the Windows key + F
|
| Something seems off here.
| jeroenhd wrote:
| After several (three, I think?) boot failures, Windows will
| automatically restart to recovery mode and use system restore
| to undo the last update. This fixes the BSODs until you install
| the updates again.
| JohnClark1337 wrote:
| [dead]
| konschubert wrote:
| Windows, Office and Teams are so weirdly unpleasant to use. It's
| hard for me to put my finger on it - it's a mix of ugly UI, bad
| UX and general bugginess.
| deely3 wrote:
| I can't agree about Office and Windows tho. They still have
| quirks, and I definitely can put finger (a lot of fingers
| actually) at points that stupid and I can't stand, but in
| general I like working with Office and Windows. I tried Open
| Office, Libre Office, few Linux distibutives, but return to
| Windows everytime.
| konschubert wrote:
| Have you tried google docs? The cooperative editing and
| commenting feels much more robust than what office 365 is
| doing.
|
| The default new tab on bing is a bunch of trashy news. It's
| just icky.
| Dwedit wrote:
| Just noticed the article showing the "Recreate my problem" and
| "Start Collecting" feature...
|
| That feature is sending an insanely large amount of personal data
| to Microsoft, and it's horribly irresponsible to include this
| feature as it is.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-08-24 23:01 UTC)