[HN Gopher] Logic Lab
___________________________________________________________________
Logic Lab
Author : chrisjj
Score : 157 points
Date : 2023-08-24 12:10 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.technoblogy.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.technoblogy.com)
| rafabroseghini wrote:
| This reminds me of:
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/619150/while_True_learn/
|
| Really fun game btw.
| ibizaman wrote:
| To be honest, I really like the idea but I dislike that it is
| based on a microcontroller faking the components.
|
| It reminds me of a similar experience I had in a museum where the
| experiment had you cycling to give power to a bulb. The quicker
| you cycled, the more power you gave to the bulb and the brighter
| it was. But it was based on some microcontroller and the light
| bulb's brightness was not proportional to how fast you cycled. It
| has like 3 preprogrammed brightness. It completely failed to give
| kids the intuition of the physics behind the phenomenon.
|
| Anyway, it's probably an unfair comparison but I like having the
| real deal when learning or teaching.
| vineyardmike wrote:
| In school, I studied digital logic (like, chips and hardware)
| as much as I studied anything software, but professionally I've
| only written code.
|
| One of the biggest "disappointments" my professors shared -
| which I've never confirmed in industry- is that this is super
| common for digital logic, or else it's just a "lookup table"
| with precomputed outputs for every input.
| chrisjj wrote:
| [delayed]
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| Is there a good "game" to learn basic electronics sort of the
| same way but on a screen of a computer?
| shreddit wrote:
| Yes there is: https://sebastian.itch.io/digital-logic-sim
| qwerty456127 wrote:
| Awesome. Thank you very much. Is there any for basic analog
| electronics as well?
| perihelions wrote:
| https://www.falstad.com/circuit/
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17599728 (134
| comments)
| SirMittens wrote:
| There is Turing Complete [0], although it's still somewhat in
| development, but it is very much playable.
|
| [0]:
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/1444480/Turing_Complete/
| [deleted]
| KeithBrink wrote:
| Another good one: https://nandgame.com/
| DylanSp wrote:
| Silicon Zeroes might be up your alley, though IIRC it starts
| with logic gates and builds up to more complex
| logic/computation, it doesn't focus on the electrical
| engineering side of things.
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/app/684270/Silicon_Zeroes/
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Fun stuff.
|
| When I first got into Arduino I bought myself a set of 74xx gates
| and a breadboard and I wrote a program that would try a range of
| possible inputs and generate truth tables, I found that the
| breadboard + 74xx gates + jumper wires was a very physical way to
| experiment. The range of parts you can get is huge:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7400-series_integrated...
|
| even though my understanding now is that you are probably better
| off using the 54xx CMOS parts instead.
|
| You can do the same with switches and LEDs but boy do you run
| into trouble when you get into parts like flip-flops that have a
| memory because you will press a button once and thanks to
| keybounce your device will think you pressed the button 10 times.
| You get better results using the Arduino as a driver and those
| programs are really easy to write.
| criddell wrote:
| Using an AVR128DA48 feels using a 747 to go get my mail from the
| mailbox.
|
| Why not use actual logic gate chips? I made a board like this a
| long time ago with 74xx-type chips. It was neat looking at a
| datasheet[1] and seeing exactly how the pins correspond to the
| gates.
|
| [1]:https://datasheetspdf.com/datasheet/7411.html
| brudgers wrote:
| Got curious how big a front yard would be required to fit a
| 747.
|
| A 747-100 is 70m long,
|
| Wingspan ~60m.
|
| (I am not saying everyone has a mailbox accessible through a
| front yard, or even has a front yard, or necessarily a mailbox.
| Just want to make that clear to the whole internet.)
| contingencies wrote:
| Consider also Boeing's minimum runway length official
| reference which states an additional 4000m will be needed to
| cover your heaviest mail deliveries in wet conditions (for
| example, two consecutive rainy days with a bout of Amazon
| shopping).
| https://static1.simpleflyingimages.com/wordpress/wp-
| content/...
| brudgers wrote:
| I was thinking about using the fuselage as a corridor
| because that was the most charitable.
| hoobaquant wrote:
| For the love of God... both of you.
| chrisjj wrote:
| > Why not use actual logic gate chips?
|
| Surely that would have greatly increased the assembly work. And
| possibly cost too.
| criddell wrote:
| I don't know. You can buy a solderless breadboard, some pre-
| cut wires, and a lot of 74xx chips for the $99 that the the
| bare board costs.
| [deleted]
| zokier wrote:
| Why use 6 chips when you can use one? It's not like those
| discrete chips would be cheaper in total
| AdamH12113 wrote:
| They probably would be, actually. In quantities of 1, a
| discrete logic chip is around 50 cents, while that
| microcontroller is $2.50. In higher quantities the logic gets
| cheaper faster. For this project, you would need:
|
| 1 quad NAND gate
|
| 1 quad NOR gate
|
| 1 quad XOR gate
|
| 1 hex inverter
|
| The cost isn't the main thing here, though. A better reason
| to go with discrete logic is that the MCU also requires an
| entire software and hardware toolchain to create and load
| firmware.
|
| Never underestimate the cost of adding nonvolatile memory to
| your system.
| zokier wrote:
| > In quantities of 1, a discrete logic chip is around 50
| cents, while that microcontroller is $2.50
|
| The article also mentions that ATMEGA809 should work here,
| and costs about $1.53 in singles
| https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/microchip-
| technol...
|
| > I built two prototypes, one with an AVR128DA48, and one
| with the older ATmega4809 which is pin compatible, and
| their performance was indistinguishable. The program only
| uses about 1500 bytes, so an ATmega809, ATmega1609, or
| ATmega3209 should be fine
| [deleted]
| foobarian wrote:
| In this case the behavior is not equivalent, I know the
| author said it's close but with polling the inputs I doubt it
| would replicate various feedback configurations faithfully.
| JohnFen wrote:
| Those 6 discrete chips will probably use less power.
| criddell wrote:
| For me, the ideas become a little more concrete when I see a
| discrete package and can exactly map these inputs to that
| output.
|
| Otherwise, why use one chip when you can use none? This could
| all be little virtual switches in a web app.
| derefr wrote:
| > Otherwise, why use one chip when you can use none?
|
| Because you're actually designing a hardware product to
| sell.
| varispeed wrote:
| You could also use 0 chips and create an app that does the
| same thing.
| chrisjj wrote:
| I think you'll find an app needs more than zero chips to
| run...
| [deleted]
| firewolf34 wrote:
| The article says he wanted the gates to be configurable. But
| yeah, seems like a missed opportunity to not familiarize with
| the 74 series. That having been said, the AVR chips are
| probably a lot more useful to learn as a newbie these days. Not
| many people using discrete logic ICs anymore :(
| mindcrime wrote:
| _That having been said, the AVR chips are probably a lot more
| useful to learn as a newbie these days. Not many people using
| discrete logic ICs anymore_
|
| I dunno. I mean, there's no question that they are less
| widely than in their heyday. But I think there might be a
| surprising number of uses where they are used for some small
| (very small) bit of functionality where even the smallest
| microcontroller is overkill.
|
| In my own experience, I had something recently where I
| literally needed a single AND gate to switch a transistor on
| or off based on whether one or both of two power rails were
| HIGH. A discrete 74xx chip turned out to be the simplest way
| to implement that.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| I'd say that pretty much every schematic I've reviewed in
| the last few years has a handful of logic on it. Often we
| need to guarantee that something is off or disconnected if
| the CPU fails or software crashed, etc. Hard-wired logic is
| good for that kind of thing.
| zh3 wrote:
| Ti have long had "little logic" for this kind of thing
| (I've been out of that game for a while, maybe something
| has taken its place?)
|
| 2018 link (PDF): https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/scyt129
| mindcrime wrote:
| Hey, thanks, I did not know about the "little logic"
| stuff until just now. I'd always looked at the 7400
| series chips (or 4000 series chips) as my "goto's" for
| one-off individual logic gate kind of stuff.
| mindcrime wrote:
| s/widely than/widely used than/
|
| How the heck did I just leave an entire word out? _sigh_
| nick__m wrote:
| I recently designed a board using discreet components but I
| replaced those chips with a single STM8 MCU because it was
| significantly cheaper. While designing using gates is fun, it
| doesn't make economical sense, even for a simple hobbyists like
| me.
|
| edit: one exception is using the venerable 555, but while it's
| a discreet component it's not a gate.
| DigitalNoumena wrote:
| Nice stuff. I love the idea of really learning electronics, but I
| find it very much beyond what I would need to build the things I
| want to build.
|
| PS. Guys HTTPS please!
| gokhan wrote:
| Why do you need https for this site?
| DigitalNoumena wrote:
| https://www.troyhunt.com/heres-why-your-static-website-
| needs...
|
| The whole video is great, but particularly this:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BNIkw4Ao9w&t=1063s
|
| https://doesmysiteneedhttps.com/
|
| There are a lot of arguments about why, even non-secret data
| connections need encryption. The first and most obvious is
| that not doing so immediately puts a target on the encrypted
| data.
|
| By no means an expert but to me it seems like an oversight
| not to.
| chrisjj wrote:
| And then there's the why not. E.g.
| https://www.zdnet.com/article/lets-encrypt-to-
| revoke-3-milli...
| DigitalNoumena wrote:
| So what you're saying is:
|
| HTTPS is secure -> a bug made 2.6% of all certificates
| less secure -> that's why we shouldn't use HTTPS?
|
| I'm quite confused how that holds logically. You can
| either argue HTTPS is fundamentally not secure or is
| irrelevant; or regret that there was a bug but support
| using HTTPS
| chrisjj wrote:
| Sorry, I should have used this better example: https://ww
| w.google.com/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2021/09/21/lets-...
| DigitalNoumena wrote:
| Fair enough, that doesn't sound great.
|
| That being said:
|
| > _Devices likely to be affected by the certificate
| expiry are those that don't get updated regularly, like
| embedded systems that are designed not to automatically
| update or smartphones running years-old software
| releases. Users running older versions of macOS 2016 and
| Windows XP (with Service Pack 3) are likely to face
| issues, along with clients dependent on OpenSSL 1.0.2 or
| earlier, and older PlayStations that haven't been
| upgraded to newer firmware._
|
| Still not convinced we can claim HTTPS should not be used
| in the general, or in this particular, case.
| chrisjj wrote:
| If priority is maximing viewability for this site, HTTP
| beats HTTPS.
| DigitalNoumena wrote:
| Why would that be the case? Every modern browser actively
| discourages visiting HTTP sites so I imagine a non-
| negligible amount of users decide not to visit the page.
| aaron695 wrote:
| [dead]
| boredemployee wrote:
| This is a subject where I really wish I had a good experienced
| friend/mentor to take me by the hand and teach me it.
|
| I have an engineering degree (10 years ago) but I honestly don't
| have a clue of how this shit works, other than some basic physics
| intuition.
| musictubes wrote:
| Could this be used with an AE modular synth rig?
| https://www.tangiblewaves.com/
| an-unknown wrote:
| This could be used with modular synthesizer stuff, but you
| would have to be _very_ careful about voltages, since the
| "logic module" here uses 3V and you'll most likely kill it with
| higher voltages or negative voltages on the inputs.
|
| If you plan to use such digital logic gates in a modular
| synthesizer, you most likely want to add some protection
| circuit on the inputs and run the whole thing at 5V instead of
| 3V.
| musictubes wrote:
| Good catch. I keep forgetting about voltage stuff when mixing
| manufacturers.
| coreyp_1 wrote:
| My problem is that I know enough to be dangerous, and not enough
| to do much practically. I keep fantasizing about going back and
| getting an EE degree or something, but after 15 years of taking
| university classes, I don't want to start that grind again.
|
| I've built small arduino projects, such as PIR sensor controlled
| under-cabinet lighting and a foot-controlled "prev/next" buttons
| for a slideshow display, but I'm now lost in working with audio.
|
| I'm wanting to build an audio mixer next, but audio is proving to
| be difficult for me to reason about. The rest of this post will
| talk about my idea, so skip it if you're not interested, or read
| it if you want to give me any ideas! :)
|
| Here's the full idea (for which I have not been able to find a
| commercial alternative): I want my home automation (RPi and Home
| Assistant) to integrate with my house's current speaker system
| and be able to mix audio on demand. For example, if an audible
| alert needs to be played, then the volume of whatever is
| currently being played will be reduced so that the alert can be
| heard, and then restored when the alert is finished. So if I'm
| watching a movie and my garage door opens, I want to know about
| it! Additionally, music should be able to follow me from room to
| room, and I should be able to send audio to one specific room if
| I desire. Finally, my digital organ has multiple audio channel
| outputs in order to replicate the pipe placement in different
| parts of an auditorium, and I would like for this system to
| support that as well (make the far-away pipes play from the next
| room, for example).
|
| In order to accomplish this, I want to build a zigbee-controlled
| audio mixer (with on-device fallback controls) for making use of
| my house's audio system (pre-wired when I bought the house, but
| the seller took the audio system with them and left the
| speakers!!) in conjunction with Home Assistant. Personally
| speaking, I don't like any solution that relies on a 3rd party to
| still be in business and be supporting my product a decade later,
| so self-hosted it is!
|
| I assume that I need a lot of ADCs for the inputs (14 channels
| in... yes, I have a reason for that many... and 18 channels out).
| I would want the mixing to be "any input channel can go to any
| output channel", so using a CPU for the mixing would undoubtedly
| be better than trying to do it all with discrete components. The
| thought of building an 18-channel amp is a bit daunting! 7 stereo
| inputs (3 of which are really the 5.1 audio input) and 9 zones (3
| of which are really a 5.1 speaker setup that is currently not
| being used at all) is a tall order for any commercial solution.
| Generic mixers do exist, of course, but they usually don't
| support that many outputs (and they definitely don't integrate
| with HA!).
| eggxbox8 wrote:
| Use Analog MUXes (example: CD4051) to put multiple channels
| into one micro ADC pin.
| an-unknown wrote:
| That works if you want to select between different inputs,
| but it doesn't work if you want to mix multiple inputs. From
| the description it sounded like the goal here is to mix
| multiple inputs, all with potentially different volumes, in
| which case a MUX won't help.
| an-unknown wrote:
| If you want to just buy a thing that exists, you could look for
| one of the "high end" networked audio interfaces out there with
| on-board DSP mixing + network control, e.g. MOTU AVB interfaces
| support that (e.g. MOTU 16A + some TOSlink to analog stereo out
| for the 17th/18th channel would be completely sufficient for
| your project). You would only have to develop the automation to
| remote control the volumes / routing and integrate it into your
| home automation, or if you want to get fancy, you could connect
| that to a PC and do literally anything you could imagine. Keep
| in mind that this will cost quite some money and I have no idea
| how much you want to spend on this project, but it will also
| give you high quality and low latency audio.
|
| If you want to build it yourself and if you want to keep it
| cheap and simple: integrating an ADC or DAC on a custom board
| isn't that hard, at least if you don't need "perfect"
| "audiophile" audio quality; usually the datasheets of the ADC /
| DAC chips already tell you exactly how you're supposed to use
| them + external components you need and so on. In your case,
| you'll probably want to use a cheap FPGA for mixing (think of
| Spartan-6 or newer), since that can easily handle dozens of
| channels, unlike cheap MCUs which usually don't support the
| number of channels you'd need. With MCUs the limit isn't
| necessarily how much you could mix in software, but how many
| ADC/DAC channels you can physically attach to the chip. For
| zigbee (or whatever network protocol you prefer) you can find
| dozens of small chips which can interact with that. Since it
| sounds like your system is wired anyway, you could also think
| about Ethernet for the network. When you start playing around
| with this, I'd recommend building a simple and minimal
| prototype first with e.g. a stereo in/out + network, to keep
| the manufacturing costs low in case you mess up the design, and
| once this works as intended, build the "full" 14x18ch module.
| Don't forget to add some simple debug port like e.g. RS232,
| it's cheap to add and it makes your life during development
| much easier.
| coreyp_1 wrote:
| Thank you for the reply! I'll look into the MOTU devices... I
| had not heard of them before!
|
| I was hoping to keep the cost at sub-$1k (although that is by
| no means a hard limit), but you are correct in that I already
| have the speakers wired in. Basically all cables come to a
| single location, which is where the amps need to go (speakers
| are not powered). It seems that the previous owner just ran
| the same 2 channels to all rooms in an on/off configuration.
|
| I didn't think about the RS232 for debugging, but that's a
| good idea.
|
| I know that the datasheets give external components, but when
| I was looking at this ~6 months ago, it seemed that most of
| the options were surface mount, and I've only done breadboard
| designs, so I didn't know how to work with that for
| prototyping purposes. This may be my biggest sticking point.
|
| Also, I didn't know if FPGA or something more familiar (such
| as a RPi) would be better for mixing. I have a PhD in CS, but
| I've never worked with FPGAs!!! lol I only know what they are
| in theory!
|
| I'm not against rolling up my sleeves and working, I just
| didn't know where to start. Even the smallest MVP (stereo in,
| mixer, stereo out) has too many parts with which I am
| unfamiliar.
| an-unknown wrote:
| > when I was looking at this ~6 months ago, it seemed that
| most of the options were surface mount
|
| That's because most components today are only available as
| SMD. Once you play around with higher speed digital chips,
| breadboards are not really suitable anyway. But don't worry
| about SMD devices, there are manufacturers like e.g. JLCPCB
| which build the PCB and assemble it for you if you give
| them the manufacturing files. In that case you give them
| your Gerber + placement files and you get a board with all
| the SMD parts assembled already and you only have to solder
| e.g. connectors yourself. The board will be
| indistinguishable from something you'd buy in a commercial
| device. It's also cheap enough that it's totally fine to do
| this for prototypes, but it will usually take a while
| (think of 1-2 weeks) to get the board, so "prototyping" is
| a bit slow.
|
| If you have _no_ idea about this / never did this before,
| maybe start with a simple test board where you figure out
| how to use e.g. KiCAD to design a PCB and how to get it
| assembled? It's quite easy, but you should be familiar with
| the process before you attempt to build anything more
| complex, simply because everything you build costs money in
| the end and if it doesn't work, it's annoying.
|
| > I didn't think about the RS232 for debugging, but that's
| a good idea.
|
| In case you wonder why I said RS232, it's probably the
| simplest protocol (electrical and logical) you can use,
| which makes it really hard to mess it up. In most cases all
| you need is an RS232 transceiver chip like an SP3232E and a
| UART interface on your FPGA/MCU/...
|
| > speakers are not powered
|
| Means: you'll need some amplifiers too. You again have two
| options: get some cheap commercially available amplifiers
| and only think about the mixer or completely build it
| yourself. If you build it yourself, you could look at Class
| D amplifiers, there are chips which directly translate
| digital I2S or TDM signals to the PWM signals for the
| speakers.
|
| > I have a PhD in CS, but I've never worked with FPGAs!
|
| In that case it will be quite the learning curve, because
| with FPGAs you don't write "software", you essentially
| describe a digital chip instead. A good starting point
| would probably be to get one of the cheap FPGA evaluation
| boards, ideally with an FPGA similar to what you want to
| use in the end. Keep in mind that if you put an FPGA onto
| your own board, you'll need some way to program it, like
| e.g. a JTAG programmer. That's the same with
| microcontrollers too btw, except you might need an SWD
| programmer then if it's some Cortex-M MCU. And if you get
| the one supported by the chip manufacturer (or a cheap
| Chinese clone of that one), things usually get easier
| because then it's supported by the development environment
| of the manufacturer.
|
| > I'll look into the MOTU devices... I had not heard of
| them before!
|
| You probably didn't hear about that before because it's
| "pro" audio hardware and not something an average consumer
| would ever buy/use. In this case it's only line level, so
| you still need amplifiers for the speakers afterwards.
| Maybe you'll find something that's even better for your
| specific use case. For commercially available amplifiers,
| you could again look at "pro" hardware which usually comes
| in 19" rackmount cases and sometimes there are even other
| options for "fixed" installations. That being said, be
| careful to not get an amplifier which is way too "powerful"
| for your speakers and you can also waste a lot of money on
| fancy things you _don 't_ need.
| pkdpic wrote:
| Somewhat related but does anyone have any suggestions for analog
| logic gate / transistor / electronics / computer education toys
| for small kids. Specific a 3 year old. Ive been keeping an eye
| open but haven't come across as much as I was expecting out
| there.
| leetrout wrote:
| > total parts cost of under PS20 or $25
|
| Yet the link to have a board made is $99 for just the board.
|
| Would love to team up with folks interested in snagging one of
| these... maybe we could do a group buy somewhere?
| an-unknown wrote:
| Take the gerber files from the Github repo, zip them, upload
| the zip file to jlcpcb.com, and you'll get 5 boards for around
| $20 including shipment. You'll still need the components like
| the AVR and LEDs and so on and you'll have to assemble them
| manually, but you'll have to do that with the offering from the
| link at oshpark too.
| johnsondavies wrote:
| As mentioned in the article I used Elecrow, who made 5 boards
| for $24.14. I accept that the unit cost will be more if you're
| only making one.
| gstrike wrote:
| [dead]
| B-JCl2awan wrote:
| [flagged]
| loph wrote:
| Here is how this was done... in 1965:
|
| https://ia600609.us.archive.org/9/items/TNM_Digital_Equipmen...
| morninglight wrote:
| Historical Note:
|
| The Digital Equipment Corporation H-500 Computer Lab made it's
| appearance around 1969.
|
| Michael Gardi built a reproduction of the H-500 Computer Lab that
| is nothing less than spectacular. Not only did he pay meticulous
| attention to detail, but he has also produced clear and engaging
| documentation. It is not just a beautiful project; it is a work
| of art!
|
| Michael's goal clearly went beyond building a simple functional
| equivalent to the H-500. He was equally concerned with
| maintaining an "outwardly accurate appearance of the original".
| After 3 months of work he succeeded in every way. You can find
| details of his work here on Hackaday and in his Instructable.
|
| https://hackaday.io/project/170232-dec-h-500-computer-lab-re...
|
| https://www.instructables.com/id/DEC-H-500-Computer-Lab-Repr...
|
| John L Hughes designed the DEC Computer Lab and wrote the manual.
| His illuminating historical notes and a pdf of the DEC manual can
| be found here:
|
| https://archive.org/details/bitsavers_dechandboobWorkbook196...
|
| If you just want to play with digital logic in 2023, there are
| easier methods. You could just download one of the many free
| simulators for Windows. De Morgan's theorem is just a few clicks
| away.
|
| https://listoffreeware.com/free-logic-gate-simulator-softwar...
|
| .
| chrisjj wrote:
| I guess it depends on your definition of easier. Running
| Windows requires a hefty computer, last time I looked.
| JR1427 wrote:
| I learned basic digital electronics by having a clear goal in
| mind - building a Z80-based computer I dubbed the ZX-JAKEY
| https://www.jake-reich.co.uk/projects/zx-jakey/zx-jakey
| nanna wrote:
| Does anyone have suggestions as to how to learn about electronics
| in general - resistors, transistors, all those things that make
| up even just basic circuit boards which are all magic to me?
| simonbarker87 wrote:
| This book is great and got me through my electronics degree:
|
| https://www.amazon.co.uk/Circuits-Devices-Systems-Electrical...
| ta988 wrote:
| Take one of those kits for kids, play and experiment. Build
| your intuition. Then you can go with the theory little by
| little as needed. I would recommend against going theory first
| as it is often overwhelming and discouraging.
| aio2 wrote:
| Have you tried using a breadboard? That'll give a hands-on
| experience. Try the Khan Academy Electronics course if you want
| to know the science behind the stuff.
| slingnow wrote:
| I don't understand questions like this. You have the entire
| internet to search, powerful search tools, libraries,
| bookstores, etc. You're asking about the most basic building
| blocks of a subject (akin to asking "How can I learn about
| arithmetic?"), of which there must be an effectively infinite
| amount of material aimed at beginners.
|
| The best answer to your question is "Do anything. Anything at
| all".
| cjohnson318 wrote:
| That book Code, by Charles Petzold, is good. It starts talking
| about the development of switches and relays, then logic gates,
| then how to add and subtract with logic gates, build memory
| from logic gates, then about the first integrated circuits from
| the mid-1970's, the 8080, and I don't remember what else.
|
| It's more computing focused that electronics focused, but it's
| a great entrypoint for learning about how logic gates translate
| into an algorithmic unit and memory.
| jmhammond wrote:
| I know it is targeted at kids, but I think Snap Circuits is
| pretty great. All the electronic components are attached using
| what are effectively clothing snaps. But they're all real
| electronic components and you can make really interesting
| things. The books walk you through from very basics to more
| advanced and help you learn the basics. I learned from it
| playing with it with my son!
| jwhatever wrote:
| I would recommend getting an Arduino kit with a breadboard.
| arein3 wrote:
| Arduino kits are a good first step, but they need to be
| followed by more complex projects.
| weberer wrote:
| Here's a nice list of resources:
|
| https://github.com/kitspace/awesome-electronics
| incanus77 wrote:
| Some years ago I really enjoyed Sparkfun's Inventor's Kit,
| which is Arduino-based and has a good starting supply of
| components and some fun projects.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| I've wondered this too. Far too many resources rehash the
| fundamentals that I learned in middle school/high
| school/college.
|
| I know things can get dangerous with high voltage, but it'd be
| fun have a "playbook" for low voltage applications.
| arein3 wrote:
| You can make your own project, with arduino and a bunch of
| components. There should be a project that will require use of
| different techniques, like using a transistor instead of a
| relay, using resistors to not burn up components, using a
| voltage divider circuit (requires 2 resistors), and other
| techniques.
|
| I am a beginner, so it would be hard to suggest what project to
| implement. I mainly used resistors to not burn the arduino I/O
| pins, and voltage divider circuit to step down the voltage for
| components with voltage different than 5v.
| tomatotomato37 wrote:
| There used to be these massive electronic experiment kits you'd
| get from like Radioshack during the early 2000s. Like this:
| [0][1]. I haven't found any all-in-ones with the same depth
| sold today but maybe someone else has found something.
|
| [0]
| https://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/produc...
| [1] https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/oNgAAOSwiZ9k1T1y/s-l1600.jpg
| buescher wrote:
| I think Elenco still sells that kind of thing.
| quercusa wrote:
| Back in the 80s, Forrest Mims was 'the guy' for hobby
| electronics books. This new edition of his basic book looks
| useful:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Started-Electronics-Forrest-M...
| teawrecks wrote:
| the sparkfun videos give a pretty good intro to the kinds of
| parts they sell.
|
| Also, if you're only interested in small hobbyist circuits, it
| will simplify things if you only think about DC. AC is a rabbit
| hole of electrical engineering and physics complexity that you
| may not be interested in quite yet.
| logarhythmic wrote:
| The books Make: Electronics and Learning The Art of Electronics
| are pretty good hands on resources.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Everybody will probably recommend a bunch of books or MOOCs
| with varying degrees of practicality but if you want to learn
| in the sense of building some sort of intuition, then just buy:
|
| - A large breadboard
|
| - A battery holder
|
| - An online kit with an assortment of passive components
| (resistors, capacitors, inductors)
|
| - A cheap USB oscilloscope
|
| Some of these kits even include things like FETs, opamps, 555
| timers etc. Which really stretches what you can build.
|
| Then just look online for circuits that you find interesting,
| build them and probe them (with the oscilloscope). The closer
| you get to building something you find useful the more engaging
| the experience will be.
| _Microft wrote:
| If you want a bunch of ideas what to do with the venerable
| 555 timer, have a look here:
|
| https://www.555-timer-circuits.com/
| ms512 wrote:
| The Navy Electricity and Electronics Training Series (NEETS)
| are a good high level overview that can help you learn which
| areas you want to explore further. Specifically to the
| questions you asked, module 1 will give you the overview on
| basic circuits.
|
| [1] https://archive.org/details/neetsmodules_202003/
| jboy55 wrote:
| I did a number of basic electronics tutorials and kits without
| much of it sticking. Mainly because there wasn't anything very
| interesting on the other side of the project. What got me
| through the basics into understanding was,
| http://www.ic0nstrux.com/design-your-own-video-game-console-...
| in which you learn how to build simple video game consoles.
|
| Now, resistors, capacitors, transistors and everything else had
| functions that solved problems I was having.
| jfoutz wrote:
| I'm sure someone will have a much better recommendation. Do you
| have an old physics book? Working a few or a lot of simple
| voltage divider problems, to just really nail down V=IR is
| helpful. a ton of digital stuff can be thought of as snapshots
| between two states. might give you some help reading schematics
| as well.
|
| a pretty ham fisted analogy, imagine a full glass of water on
| the left, and an empty glass of water on the right. you pour
| the water from the full glass into the empty glass. There is a
| BOATLOAD of physics happening there. but all you really care
| about is Left glass full -> left glass empty. easy peasy.
|
| if you're comfortable with https://nandgame.com you've pretty
| much got all you need to know how computers work. the last bit
| is pretty much, how do you use a transistor to make a nand
| gate? it blew my mind to find out it's just -
| https://mathcenter.oxford.emory.edu/site/cs170/nandFromTrans...
|
| Stuff that's changing is tougher, like radios or whatever.
| digital is sort of steady -> chaos -> steady. analog you care a
| lot about all the little partial derivatives.
|
| The ben eater videos maybe? https://eater.net/8bit/ He'll walk
| you through a lot of basic electronics in a pretty casual way.
|
| I wish I could give you something more "sure fire way to learn
| electronics" but my knowledge is pretty haphazard. that stuff
| helped me.
| sanderjd wrote:
| I was going to recommend Ben Eater's videos and kits as well.
| I'm not-so-patiently waiting for my oldest kid to be ready to
| work through those with me.
| quaddo wrote:
| When I was about 30 and wanted to scratch the same itch, I
| found an introductory electronics course being run at my local
| community college. From distant memory, it definitely covered
| off resistors, capacitors, coils, Ohm's Law, then worked its
| way to transistors and I think op amps. Somewhere along the way
| we got into the basics of creating logic gates, which also
| served to fill a void I had in my understanding of computers.
|
| At a much younger age, I was interested in amateur radio. As
| luck would have it, I learned of a night school course being
| held at one of the local high schools that was meant to teach
| you everything you needed to know to get your license. The
| instructor (late 20s, if I had to guess) really knew his stuff.
| I think this gave me a far better grasp of the relevant
| electromagnetic and electronics theory and practice than I feel
| is made available through present-day amateur radio "memorize
| the answers and some context around them" teaching materials.
| My point is, if you want to stretch your understanding of
| electronics, it's possible a local ham might be another good
| option to consider.
| baz00 wrote:
| Learn maths first, right up to calculus. It'll hurt a lot less
| and improve your life anyway. You can wire up circuits without
| knowing much but without maths it's difficult to build anything
| more than trivial stuff on your own with an objective set out
| to "I want to solve problem X". Until then you're an assembly
| worker wobbling on the shoulders of various dubiously designed
| assemblies put out by people who shouldn't be allowed to do it
| (Forest Mimms is an example).
|
| Consider a transistor is a voltage-controlled current source
| (TRANSfer resISTOR) as a model and the head scratching starts.
|
| Why is just as important as doing it.
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