[HN Gopher] Thoughts on Flash (2010)
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       Thoughts on Flash (2010)
        
       Author : marcodiego
       Score  : 8 points
       Date   : 2023-08-22 22:09 UTC (51 minutes ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (web.archive.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (web.archive.org)
        
       | Thoreandan wrote:
       | Another interesting open letter from Jobs was "Thoughts on music"
       | 
       | https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/15878/open-letter-07
       | 
       | I seem to recall a third open letter on another subject but
       | search fails me at the moment
        
       | Cockbrand wrote:
       | I'll be the one to lament that with Flash, a very accessible
       | authoring system died that hasn't been replaced yet. Lots of
       | creative laypeople built fantastic stuff because Flash was so
       | easy to use, yet powerful.
       | 
       | This comment is mandatory for every post mentioning Flash, and
       | although the Flash player/plugin was a resource hog and an
       | absolute security nightmare, it's still true.
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | I remember this spat clearly. At the time Kevin Lynch was Adobe's
       | CTO and came out with a pretty strong (and IMHO totally
       | insufficient) rebuttal of this memo. Fast forward 3 years and he
       | jumped ship to join Apple's on the Watch project, where he still
       | holds a VP of Technology position. I don't know who, inside
       | Adobe, was working as a fifth column for Apple, but they
       | definitely made the Flash people realize they had to leave the
       | ship to sink and move on.
        
         | shove wrote:
         | Kevin was in an impossible position, he could have ripped Steve
         | a new one and it wouldn't have made a lick of difference.
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | > Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools
       | for the future
       | 
       | I wish they had taken this advice instead of just giving up.
       | 
       | A massive part of the value of flash was the authoring tool. It
       | let non-coders make interactive things easily by just adding code
       | straight to their designs.
       | 
       | Having non-coders able to express their ideas like this is good
       | and I miss it. The next closest thing would probably be Unity, or
       | maybe Effects House / Spark AR for making insta and tiktok
       | effects. But these are obviously totally limited to their own
       | platform.
       | 
       | Nothing has truly replaced flash for this purpose.
        
       | shove wrote:
       | A business decision pretending to be a technology decision. In
       | the end, there were just as many shitty Flash sites as there were
       | shitty iOS apps.
       | 
       | The legacy of this choice turns out to be the beginning-of-the-
       | end for the broad market in high(er)-end, custom website
       | development and the move towards the walled gardens of app stores
       | and social media giants.
        
         | camillomiller wrote:
         | So you're saying that refusing to support a subpar competing
         | format on your own devices was just business? Of course it was
         | ALSO business, but are you telling me, for real, that Adobe
         | Flash and Flash Reader, 100% proprietary non-easily-portable
         | technologies, where the tentpoles of the free internet?!
        
           | shove wrote:
           | Subpar is really stretching it. With some care, Flash content
           | could behave quite well on the iPhone. It was _not_ 100%
           | proprietary. Of course it wasn't 100% open either, but then I
           | direct your attention to the Apple App Store.
           | 
           | Edit: Flash Paper was hot garbage. Definitely not going to
           | defend that one lol
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | The final reason stated is the only real reason why Apple blocked
       | Flash: they didn't want any cross-platform runtime when it became
       | clear they were winning. They only grudgingly accepted HTML
       | because it was unavoidable, but embarked on a deliberate program
       | to limit Safari's capabilities to hamper the web as a platform
       | (just like Microsoft did with IE ten years earlier).
       | 
       | In the late 1990s Steve Jobs was a big fan of Cocoa-Java because
       | he thought a cross-platform language and runtime could help
       | adoption of his company's middleware product. In 2010 he was very
       | much against middleware and cross-platform runtimes. That's how
       | it goes. The thing you're selling at that moment is always the
       | right answer.
        
         | iraqmtpizza wrote:
         | Funny that IE is the only remaining browser to still support
         | Java, even if it's disabled by default.
        
         | camillomiller wrote:
         | Well, that was the "Flash" that Steve was bashing here. Of
         | course the tech for animation in itself was not a problem, but
         | the proprietary reader was a massive s*itshow of security
         | vulnerabilities. On top of that, it was so poorly optimized
         | that it would have burnt through iPhone batteries in no time.
         | The fact that not allowing Flash games would favor the then
         | still nascent App Store certainly played a big role as well,
         | but technologically Flash was inferior to what Apple was
         | developing.
        
       | grishka wrote:
       | Apple's problem was not with Flash itself as a technology but
       | with the half-assed player implementation form Macromedia/Adobe
       | -- the only one that existed at the time. There's nothing
       | inherently terrible about ActionScript or the SWF format itself.
       | On the contrary, it's a very nice container for scriptable vector
       | and bitmap animations, still unmatched by any purported modern
       | replacements.
       | 
       | I sure hope that Flash eventually makes a comeback.
        
         | camillomiller wrote:
         | It's basically still here inside Adobe Animate, which is now a
         | decent, albeit half forgotten, heir to Flash (the software to
         | build animations). It basically works in the same way, and the
         | exported animations are compatible with all modern browsers and
         | run quite smoothly thanks to createJS and easel integration.
        
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