[HN Gopher] How to use a Breadboard. How do breadboards work? (2...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How to use a Breadboard. How do breadboards work? (2021) [video]
        
       Author : peter_d_sherman
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2023-08-21 14:39 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | beaker52 wrote:
       | I would have found it much more intuitive to understand had the
       | breadboard been in the vertical orientation.
        
       | cmacleod4 wrote:
       | Make sure your knife is sharp. Let freshly-baked bread cool
       | before attempting to slice. Wash the board after use.
       | 
       | Simple!??
        
       | wilgertvelinga wrote:
       | Even more in-depth from the magnificent Ben Eater:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE-_rJqvDhQ
        
         | theSuda wrote:
         | Also this one from years ago is my favorite:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WReFkfrUIk Learned a lot of
         | basics with this one.
        
       | Renaud wrote:
       | For those wanting to tinker but laking access to the equipment,
       | there are breadboard simulators.
       | 
       | Surprisingly capable.
       | 
       | https://store.steampowered.com/app/2198800/CRUMB_Circuit_Sim...
        
       | peter_d_sherman wrote:
       | Related: Steve Morrison's BBCircuits (Breadboard Circuits)
       | channel on YouTube (which looks like a great channel for anyone
       | interested in electronics!):
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/@BBCircuitsbySteveMorrison/videos
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | Sheesh. Any resources in old school text plus some piccies
         | format?
        
           | kd5bjo wrote:
           | https://archive.org/details/gettingstartedin00mims/
           | 
           | https://archive.org/details/engineersmininot00mims/
           | 
           | https://archive.org/details/555-designs
           | 
           | https://archive.org/details/engineersminin00mims
        
             | nottorp wrote:
             | Sarcasm I see.
             | 
             | The video referred by the original post is 5 minutes long
             | so I could probably scan the equivalent text in 1 minute.
             | More, I could use a text version as reference, which is a
             | lot more difficult when scrolling about in a video.
        
               | kd5bjo wrote:
               | No sarcasm here; you asked for some text-based resources
               | and so I listed some that I know to be quality-- Paper
               | copies of these books and some parts/breadboards to
               | tinker with are how I learned the basics of electronics a
               | couple of decades ago. The fundamentals haven't changed.
        
             | peter_d_sherman wrote:
             | Some excellent links; thank you very much!
             | 
             | (Yes, I remember Forrest Mims (as an author) from "the old
             | Radio Shack days" (where his books were primarily found,
             | back in the day...) He was a great author of electronics
             | related texts. It's nice to see his works preserved
             | online!)
        
       | baz00 wrote:
       | 30 years experience says the best way to use a breadboard is
       | don't use one.
       | 
       | They suffer from contact wear, stray capacitance and inductance,
       | unreliable contacts and rather non optimal signal routing. This
       | slowly adds up to pending headaches like failing circuits and
       | ones that can't be reproduced. Even the nice 3M ones are
       | problematic.
       | 
       | Refer to https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-
       | documentation/appl... ... AN47-26 breadboarding techniques.
       | 
       | I tend to use single sided copper clad board and build stuff rats
       | nest. Drill some holes through the board and screw it to the
       | inside of a die cast box lid and for a one off it's good. Works
       | fine up to 1GHz or so with some thinking unlike breadboards (1MHz
       | if the planets are aligned appropriately). Also works for high
       | voltage and high current stuff. If you have lots of digital, flip
       | the ICs upside down and use kynar for signal routing.
       | 
       | Here's one I did last year where someone stole the internal
       | oscillator out of an RF signal generator so I built one from the
       | service manual schematics. Prototype: https://imgur.com/KLnEzcs
       | ... This was "productionised" onto a custom PCB:
       | https://imgur.com/WM44RYl
        
         | kd5bjo wrote:
         | There are plenty of projects for which solderless breadboards
         | are unsuitable, but there are also lots for which they're
         | perfectly fine. Lots of hobbyists and most professionals will
         | outgrow solderless breadboards sooner or later, but they're
         | still a good place to get started.
        
           | baz00 wrote:
           | Spend an hour in an undergrad EE lab helping people with
           | fucked up breadboards and you change your mind rapidly. Same
           | goes for hobbyists but they don't have someone to help them
           | available.
           | 
           | I've seen people chewed up for hours debugging a circuit and
           | find it's a breadboard problem.
        
             | JohnFen wrote:
             | Yeah, I wouldn't use them in that sort of setting.
             | 
             | I do use breadboards for quickly checking out relatively
             | simple, low-frequency circuits. But if the circuit appears
             | to be malfunctioning, I suspect the breadboard first (after
             | double-checking the circuit wiring). I also think of
             | breadboards as being consumables, and as soon as one gives
             | the slightest whiff of trouble, I get rid of it.
             | 
             | I think they're very useful tools, but you need to be aware
             | of how iffy they actually are and use them appropriately.
        
         | 0xmarcin wrote:
         | I think they selling point is that you do not have to solder.
         | Soldering is not for everyone: you need expensive equipment,
         | soldering in an appartment without proper ventilation is quite
         | harmful to your health, young kids should not solder.
         | 
         | I used breadboard to play with electronics during winter in my
         | small appartment at that time. No troubles with fumes, no need
         | to buy expensive soldering station, no need to safely get rid
         | of tin with lead. This was a good way to start, now I own a
         | soldering station but now I also know that I need it about 2 or
         | 3 a month.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | > you need expensive equipment
           | 
           | Basic soldering equipment is quite inexpensive. A basic
           | soldering iron can be had for about the same price as a small
           | breadboard. The good stuff gets pricey, but if you aren't
           | doing a lot of soldering, you don't need the good stuff.
           | 
           | > soldering in an appartment without proper ventilation is
           | quite harmful to your health
           | 
           | If you have a window and aren't soldering frequently, it's
           | not really all that bad.
           | 
           | > young kids should not solder.
           | 
           | Why not? I was taught to solder when I was 8, and I'm very
           | grateful for that.
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | I super recommend to anyone, getting the Arduino starter kit, and
       | going through the projects book. Most fun I'd had in ages + a
       | great hands on way to begin to understand how electronics are not
       | magic. https://store.arduino.cc/products/arduino-starter-kit-
       | multi-...
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | Also Raspberry Pi (the Coke to Arduino's Pepsi). More expensive
         | (especially since hoarders have been bulk ordering them and
         | jacking up the price), but IMO more flexible and powerful.
         | 
         | https://www.raspberrypi.com/
         | 
         | There are several others, but Arduino and Raspberry Pi seem to
         | be the ones with the widest variety of "it just works" add-on
         | components and programming tutorials.
        
         | brewtide wrote:
         | I just got my son the "30 days lost in space" inventr.io kit
         | (not associated at all with them). It seems more pricey than
         | your standard Arduino kit for sure, but provides a (pretty
         | lame..) story of the why things are being built.
         | 
         | Point being, as his first (and close to my first) experience
         | with breadboards and programming, he is loving it and having
         | the programming aspect and electronics aspect combined into
         | "this code makes this thing do this" makes it FAR more
         | interesting for him. I doubt it'll be his passion in life (but
         | who knows) but it's certainly helping him pay attention to
         | details and he is certainly learning a good bit about designing
         | some simple circuits. Would recommend.
         | 
         | (Unrelated, but he also got a build your own am/fm radio kit
         | and he successfully soldered all the bits he needed to, having
         | never soldered before and only ended up with one good burn on
         | his hand at the last connection to be made, the negative
         | battery!)
         | 
         | Confidence building things, and a great way of teaching "you
         | can relatively do anything, you just have to practice!". You
         | could see the pride when he flicked the switch and noise was
         | made.
         | 
         | Same , slower, pride on every day he's "lost in space".
        
       | atoav wrote:
       | I run an electronic lab at a university -- I have the following
       | tips:
       | 
       | - don't cheap out on breadboards unless you plan to manually test
       | every single connection regularily before prototyping
       | 
       | - with some breadboards the (red/blue) power rails are not
       | connected all the way through, but only for half of the board, in
       | doubt always measure. If this is the case with your board, just
       | bridge the rails once and leave them bridged forever.
       | 
       | - if you prototype projects more often get yourself sortiments
       | (e.g. a resistors, film capacitors, ceramic capacitors,
       | electrolytic capacitors). Yes, these sortiments are expensive,
       | but my first private resistor sortiment lasted me for a decade
       | and if you calculate a decade worth of "fuck that part is
       | missing" it is a no-brainer. I literally never regreted getting
       | those.
       | 
       | - if you constantly find yourself using certain connectors build
       | a (heavy) breakout-box for them. Something that doesn't fly off
       | the table easily. Having your breadboard fly of the table because
       | your guitar is connected to it is bullshit.
       | 
       | - there are limits to breadboarding. If you go high voltage, high
       | current and/or high frequency or anything extra sensitive avoid
       | it
       | 
       | - learn how to translate between schematics and breadboards.
       | Nowadays there are many breadboard-illustrations that show you
       | exactly how to connect things. That is neat, but ot is hard to
       | reason about circuits that way, and this will be needed once you
       | deciate from what you find. Most interesting circuits will come
       | as schematics anyways, so learning it is worth it
       | 
       | - if you breadboard complex schematics, print out the schematic
       | and tick off (with a pen) _every_ connection between _every_ pin
       | of _every_ component you make. It is very easy to miss something
       | even for professionals. In the end a circuit is basically just
       | nodes (a single pin of a component) and edges (the connections
       | between them). If you get the topology right, the circuit should
       | work. Exceptions: the schematic is wrong (not uncommon, there is
       | a lot of crap on the internet), the parts are wrong (there is
       | many nuances to each part, beyond their basic value) or the
       | circuit is of a kind that is not suited for breadboarding (see
       | above).
       | 
       | - Sometimes people online claim that X works, but it only works
       | because the part they had lying around had a very specific
       | characteristic that they conceniently failed to mention. It is
       | okay to just give up and move on at some point
       | 
       | - Try to simulate schematics before you breadboard them. Change
       | component values to get a basic intuition for the circuit. I like
       | this one: https://www.falstad.com/circuit/circuitjs.html (it has
       | some limitations, e.g. inverter based relaxation oscillators
       | won't oscillate, but for the most stuff this is fine)
       | 
       | - don't forget to add bypass caps. Just get a sack of ceramic
       | 100nF capacitors and sprinkle them between plus and ground on the
       | power rails next to wherever tou put active components (chips,
       | etc)
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | I'd love to get an explanation behind the last one. It can be
         | very hard for a non player to understand how connecting power
         | rails like this does anything positive, and why it works better
         | closer to the active element in question.
        
           | sheepshear wrote:
           | Small caps near a chip are like an L1 current cache for all
           | the transitor switching events.
        
             | ggm wrote:
             | So it imparts hysteresis and prevents parasitic events in
             | current switching contexts? Would you still need these if
             | somehow the circuit was a low frequency continuous wave
             | function? If feels like these are a side effect of digital
             | use, high speed switching states.
        
           | thsksbd wrote:
           | The power rails have a non zero impedance (as in not DC), and
           | large currents flow through the rails.
           | 
           | These currents will create voltages that will seem to be
           | noise to anything connected to them.
           | 
           | The caps provide a low Z path to ground so the currents so
           | your rails are stable.
           | 
           | Circuits really need schematics though, so its kinda hard to
           | explain w/out. The fundamental idea is easy enough, but
           | dealing with this properly is very hard.
        
         | 0x0203 wrote:
         | Do you have some suggestions on what sort of sortiments you
         | like? It seems like many of the common component assortment
         | kits readily available, while having several hundred pieces,
         | only have a handful of any particular value component, which
         | tends to run out rather quickly after only a project or two.
        
           | kd5bjo wrote:
           | My general approach is to start with a small-to-moderate
           | assortment kit, and after each project restock the bins that
           | are running low/empty with individual-value orders of 100
           | components or so-- Those are the values you're using a lot
           | of, and so it makes sense to stock them more heavily.
           | 
           | I'd also recommend getting a kit of fixed-length jumper
           | wires; it's much easier to analyze what you've built and turn
           | it back into a circuit diagram when the wire connections are
           | short enough to follow at a glance instead of chasing wires
           | through a ratsnest.
        
             | pwg wrote:
             | Breadboard specific cut and formed wires such as these:
             | https://www.amazon.com/AUSTOR-Lengths-Assorted-Preformed-
             | Bre... [1] will make both wiring, and verifying, bread-
             | boarded circuits much easier. Plus the actual circuit will
             | be much neater with these wires interconnecting everything.
             | 
             | [1] just the first example I found from a quick search
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | Just get one of those where you have ~10 to 20 of each and
           | get replacements for the ones you suspect to burn through
           | fast (e.g. 1k, 4k7, 10k, 100k and similar common ones). But
           | them in a drawer and refill when you need it.
           | 
           | I had one from a German reseller that doesn't exist anymore.
           | For the university I made my own sortiment buy buying
           | resistors and sorting them into boxes myself. It took 4 days
           | to sort it, which is probably what you pay for when you get a
           | sortiment.
        
         | 0xmarcin wrote:
         | I only want to add that you need resistors with slightly ticker
         | leads. Most of the cheap resistors have either too soft leads
         | or too thin and they do not provide a good contact with the
         | breadboard.
         | 
         | I use quite expensive (comparing to noname resistors) Velleman
         | Sets similar to: https://www.amazon.com/Velleman-
         | RES-E12-Pack-E12-Resistors/d...
         | 
         | The same applies to wires that you use for the connections. Do
         | not buy the very thin ones. An example of what I use:
         | https://www.adafruit.com/product/3175
         | 
         | Jumpers are good but if you have to do a lot of wiring (e.g. 8
         | address lines + 8 data lines) then using custom cut wires is
         | the best.
        
         | fatnoah wrote:
         | > don't forget to add bypass caps. Just get a sack of ceramic
         | 100nF capacitors and sprinkle them between plus and ground on
         | the power rails next to wherever tou put active components
         | (chips, etc)
         | 
         | 100 years ago when I did my EE undergrad, one big project for a
         | class was to build a very basic 8088 system that would read a
         | boot instruction and then write/read a memory address, with
         | verification via logic analyzer. I painstakingly assembled that
         | thing on my breadboard and noted that it only worked one out of
         | every 10-15 attempts. Adding some decoupling capacitors solved
         | the problem. I wish I had a camera back then. I meticulously
         | cut, bent, arranged, and otherwise made the thing look
         | beautiful as part of the effort.
        
         | markus_zhang wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. These are really good advices.
         | 
         | I stopped dabbing into electronics last year due to lack of
         | time, and I'm absolutely sure this is one of the reasons I was
         | scratching my head:
         | 
         | > - learn how to translate between schematics and breadboards.
         | Nowadays there are many breadboard-illustrations that show you
         | exactly how to connect things. That is neat, but ot is hard to
         | reason about circuits that way, and this will be needed once
         | you deciate from what you find. Most interesting circuits will
         | come as schematics anyways, so learning it is worth it
         | 
         | I found it particularly hard to translate if the schematics
         | uses multiple grounds and single line power sources. I found it
         | difficult to figure out whether the components are linked
         | serially or parallel.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | I'm so old that when I made circuits as a kid in the 1970s I
       | literally mounted them on a wooden board like we used to cut
       | bread on upstairs in the kitchen.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | I remember mounting my circuits on corrugated cardboard as a
         | child. Uphill and against the wind in both directions.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-08-22 23:02 UTC)