[HN Gopher] Ask HN: What's the biggest red flag you've encounter...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ask HN: What's the biggest red flag you've encountered during a
       hiring process?
        
       I'll start.  A few years back, I was interviewing at a then "hot"
       startup. At the end of the process, the CTO calls and says they'd
       like to extend an offer. I was expecting him to walk me through the
       offer details, when he goes "well, are you going to take it?" I
       asked about getting some specifics (cash comp, equity, etc.) and he
       explains that they ask candidates to commit before sharing any
       details.  I told him that didn't seem like such a great idea, and
       he assured me that comp wouldn't be an issue, and that they do this
       to avoid hiring mercenaries. I passed and never looked back.
        
       Author : ctc24
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2023-08-21 15:08 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jakedata wrote:
       | I was summoned to a nondescript industrial building, found my way
       | upstairs and wound up in a grubby room posing as a lobby. I was
       | seated on a low futon and had several discussions with my knees
       | nearly level with my ears. The conversations were overly casual
       | but with some oddly specific IT security questions. I seriously
       | contemplated walking out of what was clearly an amateurish,
       | shoestring operation.
       | 
       | Nope... I have worked there 20 years so far.
       | 
       | My first job was to evict the former sysadmin, and within the
       | first 90 days I was relocating the whole company, building out
       | the new IT infrastructure.
       | 
       | So in the spirit of the recent post about Charlie Munger killing
       | a lot of pilots I would suggest not judging the company solely by
       | its lobby. Make a list of real deal-breakers and consider
       | overlooking the rest.
        
         | extraduder_ire wrote:
         | > So in the spirit of the recent post about Charlie Munger
         | killing a lot of pilots
         | 
         | Mind linking this? The search box isn't giving me any recent
         | results that look right.
        
           | xprn wrote:
           | Suppose I Wanted to Kill a Lot of Pilots
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37209309
        
         | joegahona wrote:
         | Is the futon still there? If not, work it into the story
         | somehow, near the end.
        
         | Jugurtha wrote:
         | If you ever contemplate a career change, even if never, please
         | consider writing.
        
           | jakedata wrote:
           | Thanks! I consider writing well to be a differentiating
           | skill, especially in IT.
        
       | b20000 wrote:
       | as a CS undergrad i interviewed at PwC or a similar firm one day.
       | The lady hands me one of their 2 page publications on IT and asks
       | me to write a summary. She gets back and I explain that the
       | publication makes no sense and is full of inaccurate bullshit.
       | Needless to say I didn't go work there.
        
       | joezydeco wrote:
       | The CEO had pictures of his racing Porsches all over his office,
       | but the bathrooms looked like they hadn't been painted in 20
       | years. Told me all I needed to know about where the priorities
       | were, so I bailed.
        
       | ilaksh wrote:
       | This isn't quite what they asked about, but much of my work has
       | been freelance contracts from the internet. One of the biggest
       | red flags for a project description is when they mention that the
       | project is "very simple" or "easy for someone who knows what they
       | are doing". That just means they are dirt cheap and looking to
       | rationalize the way they squeeze contractors.
       | 
       | Another red flag is that it's a freelancing site.
        
       | paulddraper wrote:
       | Not a specific story here but as you read these....
       | 
       | I have NEVER ever ever ever seen a red flag (in an employer or
       | employee or any other relationship) that was not real.
       | 
       | Not every red flag needs to be a deal killer, but it never is
       | just your imagination or just goes away.
        
       | ezedv wrote:
       | Once, I had an interview where the hiring manager seemed
       | uninterested in my questions about team dynamics and growth
       | opportunities. It made me wonder if they valued open
       | communication.
       | 
       | I believe interviews are a two-way street, and if a company isn't
       | willing to engage in meaningful dialogue, it might signal
       | potential issues down the road.
       | 
       | For those interested, we have open positions!
       | https://www.ratherlabs.com/open-positions
        
         | frfl wrote:
         | Why are you linking job postings, for your current
         | employer/company(?), in this thread? Seems like a very strange
         | thing to do.
        
           | Two4 wrote:
           | Many jobseekers will be in this thread, looking for tips.
           | Seems like a smart place to pick up candidates.
        
       | AnimalMuppet wrote:
       | They said they liked to start their engineers on the assembly
       | line for a few months so they "know what's going on". Um, no, not
       | for me. Found out later that "no" was definitely the right call.
       | What they really liked was having engineers working on their
       | assembly line.
        
         | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
         | I'd do it if they were gonna pay me the engineer salary while
         | on the assembly line.
         | 
         | I doubt this was the case, though.
        
       | mikewarot wrote:
       | "You're not allowed to work on your own projects when you're not
       | at work"
       | 
       | The biggest red flag ever
        
         | logicalmonster wrote:
         | I can understand having this policy in place for projects that
         | directly compete with a company. Working on a search engine at
         | home when you're working on search at Google, or working on a
         | banking product for farmers when you do the same thing at work
         | could be a direct conflict of interest and incentivize
         | unethical or possibly even criminal behavior. I think setting
         | some guidelines in place for that kind of thing is reasonable.
         | 
         | But some companies take this to an extreme.
         | 
         | I was working on a niche clothing brand at home in my spare
         | time for example when I wanted to work for a gaming startup.
         | They were giving me such a repulsively hard time about my side
         | project even though the clothing had literally nothing
         | conceivably close to the company's business model.
         | 
         | It's so stupid because companies should try and hire people
         | that have diverse experiences and are working hard to achieve
         | something.
        
           | icedchai wrote:
           | If it had nothing to do with their business, why did you even
           | tell them about your side project? I would've just kept my
           | mouth shut.
        
             | logicalmonster wrote:
             | You can do this and I know of people who have done this. In
             | virtually all cases, it's never going to come up.
             | 
             | But, for companies that are batshit anal about side-
             | projects, they're going to make you sign some onerous
             | contract and have management that are assholes about this
             | kind of thing.
             | 
             | What happens in the event that you "hit the lottery" and
             | some side-project becomes a big deal worth a lot of money?
             | Somebody from your company is eventually going to find out
             | about it: maybe from a public interview or from public
             | records. If they put 2 + 2 together about when you built
             | this and figure out that they can file some legal claim to
             | it, you're in a mess of a legal situation that you don't
             | need to be in.
             | 
             | Safer to put your cards on the table and make sure there's
             | nothing in an employment agreement that puts something you
             | really care about at risk.
             | 
             | The percentage of companies that are very anal about side-
             | projects isn't substantial. They need you more than you
             | need them and it's safer to be honest and look elsewhere
             | for employment.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jrflowers wrote:
       | I was once asked "why do you want to work here?" while
       | interviewing at a Hardee's as a teenager.
        
         | SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
         | "You are offering currency in exchange for labor. I can provide
         | labor, and desire currency."
        
         | ecshafer wrote:
         | I figure that at the level of fast food, the "why do you want
         | to work here" and similar questions are really just to filter
         | out someone that cares so little they can't even make up an
         | answer. It doesn't have to be a good answer, even a "I like
         | cooking food" is usually fine enough. But a decent amount of
         | people will just shrug.
        
         | seattle_spring wrote:
         | Ha! I remember having to "draw my thoughts" when applying for
         | Whole Foods circa ~2004.
        
         | mywittyname wrote:
         | That's a legit question for a throw-away fast food job. Since
         | most of these jobs are fungible, it can be useful to know why
         | someone picked your greasy burger joint over the one down the
         | road.
         | 
         | "It's close to where I live / I can walk here" = You probably
         | don't have to worry about their "car breaking down" or general
         | issues getting to work.
         | 
         | "My friends work here" = You're going to have a bunch of
         | teenagers dicking off if you're not running a tight ship.
         | 
         | And there are a whole bunch of neutral responses too. "I need a
         | job and you all are hiring" is a perfectly acceptable, accurate
         | answer to this question that literally every applicant can
         | provide.
        
           | sixstringtheory wrote:
           | > general issues getting to work
           | 
           | When I was applying for jobs like this as a teen,
           | applications specifically asked about my transportation
           | situation.
           | 
           | > You're going to have a bunch of teenagers dicking off if
           | you're not running a tight ship
           | 
           | Just run a tight ship, then. People who didn't know each
           | other beforehand will also dick around. I've made plenty of
           | friends out of work colleagues.
           | 
           | > "I need a job and you all are hiring" is a perfectly
           | acceptable, accurate answer to this question that literally
           | every applicant can provide
           | 
           | Then I'd argue it's the opposite of legit: it's completely
           | superfluous.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | Standard question.
         | 
         | If that's a red flag, the whole world is red.
        
           | seattle_spring wrote:
           | Is there any way to "correctly" answer that question that
           | isn't just made up bullshit, especially for a fast food
           | restaurant?
           | 
           | I think it's hilarious being asked this question when I'm in
           | early discussions with a company that reached out to me.
        
             | paulddraper wrote:
             | The team, the environment, the flexible hours, the pay.
             | 
             | Even for fast-food service jobs, there is always some
             | differentiator.
             | 
             | Note: People who can't answer this question are more likely
             | to turn over. That's why it is asked.
        
           | jrflowers wrote:
           | Yes. After establishing work history, skills, availability
           | and references one would be derelict in their duties to not
           | establish the Philosophical Why before handing a kid the
           | Sacred Mop.
        
       | blarnopre wrote:
       | Remember that every company, like every interviewer, is trying to
       | put their best foot forward during the interview process.
       | 
       | You can never expect them to be on any better behavior, so expect
       | this as your top bar for your relationship and you'll not have
       | many surprises.
       | 
       | As a corollary, that means anything that looks like a red flag is
       | probably an iceberg.
        
       | distract8901 wrote:
       | Once I applied to a slightly sketchy indeed posting. The company
       | was named something incredibly generic like WorldProgrammers or
       | GlobalDevs. Within 60 seconds of posting my application, I got a
       | phone call from a very pushy guy with a thick Indian accent,
       | requesting that I fill out a separate application over email.
       | When I didn't immediately respond (because I was at work), I got
       | a series of calls from the 'manager' over and over until I
       | blocked the number.
       | 
       | The listing was on the edge of too good to be true, and the
       | _immediate_ and desperate attempts to reel me in were a huge red
       | flag.
       | 
       | I withdrew my application, did everything I could to block them,
       | and reported the listing to indeed.
       | 
       | I have no idea what the scam was, but I'm absolutely convinced it
       | was a scam. It was honestly pretty scary, and I'm sure that a
       | slightly less vigilant person would get pulled in.
        
         | Our_Benefactors wrote:
         | The scam is that these bottom-of-the-barrel recruiters'
         | contracts pay out based on providing a certain number of
         | "qualified resumes", not for actually filling the position.
         | They're basically doing lead generation, not real recruiting.
         | 
         | After a while you can tell which positions these are by how
         | they are worded and how the recruiters associated with them
         | talk and behave during the call.
        
       | cvhashim04 wrote:
       | Nothing crazy but I interviewed at a startup a few years ago -- I
       | use the term startup loosely as the company was around for 10
       | years already but still calling themselves a startup (eye roll).
       | Anyway the VP said every morning the entire company attends stand
       | up. Mind you that was almost 50 people in the meeting discussing
       | their updates. Yup I bolted. They tried to follow up with me
       | after for additional interviews but I ignored it and moved on
       | with my life.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | Canonical. Their desktop experience had already lost its shine
       | (and, effing snaps), but I made the mistake of believing that
       | they might be cool anyway, without doing my research.
       | 
       | Intelligence test? Story about high school? Reflex test? The
       | actual red flag for me was their final admission that they
       | require an unpaid internship in the form of "community
       | participation."
       | 
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/tkc348/my_interview_...
        
         | OnionBlender wrote:
         | I had the same experience and lost respect for Canonical. Kind
         | of makes me want to avoid using Ubuntu as well.
        
       | jimmychoozyx wrote:
       | I was invited into an in-person interview in downtown San
       | Francisco for a role on a digital marketing team at Adobe. I was
       | interviewed one by one, by three potential colleagues (all
       | women).
       | 
       | One of them condescendingly asked me if I voted for Trump, simply
       | because I am originally from a non-blue state.
       | 
       | It was very strange, anti-toxic/toxic, and came out of nowhere.
       | It made me consider secretly filming & voice recording
       | interviews, especially in the SF Bay Area where people are a bit
       | more influenced by political trends.
        
         | apercu wrote:
         | Well, did you? lol.
        
       | Tomte wrote:
       | "You need to send us a handwritten page that we'll send to a
       | graphologer in Switzerland. Nobody is hired without a
       | graphological report."
       | 
       | I did that, got hired, and wouldn't comply again. First job after
       | university.
       | 
       | Nothing bad happened. Years later I could read the report, and it
       | was nothing remarkable.
        
         | seattle_spring wrote:
         | I had never heard of a"graphological report" so I looked it up.
         | It's so much worse than I would have guessed! Any of those
         | personality tests are such a major red flag.
         | 
         | "Graphology is the analysis of handwriting with attempt to
         | determine someone's personality traits."
        
       | silisili wrote:
       | The glassdoor salaries were the red flag I ignored at least
       | twice. They were about half of what I was asking. In both cases I
       | gave my asking price, and they said something like 'well, it's
       | not out of the question'.
       | 
       | Did all the coding tests and such for both, both claim I 'aced'
       | them. One made me an offer about half of what I was asking, in
       | line with the Glassdoor salaries. The other didn't provide an
       | offer after basically trying to ask how little I'd take.
        
       | romanhn wrote:
       | Years ago I was interviewing for a software engineering role. At
       | the end of one of the interviews I asked how they liked working
       | there. And the interviewer caught me off-guard with "it kind of
       | sucks". She went on to explain that the company recently promoted
       | a bunch of youngsters into VP roles through a combination of
       | nepotism and early start dates, and they didn't know what they
       | were doing. I thanked her and politely bowed out of the process
       | when the hiring manager reached out to me with the next steps.
       | 
       | This was Nvidia in 2006 and their stock is up about 200x since
       | then.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | If "promotes people to upper management who don't deserve it"
         | was a disqualifier then you would be left with exactly zero
         | companies to work for. Ultimately you have to be able to tell
         | whether it's a systemic problem or just one disgruntled
         | employee.
        
           | romanhn wrote:
           | You're right of course. However, interviewing is a game of
           | limited information and I consider all signal I get from the
           | company (after all, they're doing the same with me). I think
           | a few things had to be broken in order for an employee to
           | feel strongly this way, end up in the interviewing panel, and
           | feel comfortable to share their views.
           | 
           | Nowadays it may be easier somewhat to get some insight into
           | inner workings, but in 2006 there was no Blind, Glassdoor,
           | etc. Sometimes the positive signals outweigh the negative. In
           | my case they did not.
        
         | aprdm wrote:
         | Nvidia, like many other tech companies, has many
         | people/teams/departments/division. Is very hard to get a clear
         | view of the world from a single point.
         | 
         | Who knows, maybe if you joined you would have hated it too, or
         | loved it ! The story you shared is likely shared by many other
         | companies that went through hyper-growth
         | 
         | TLDR: Stuff is hard!
        
           | throwaway19423 wrote:
           | NVidia was truly a spectacular opportunity. So was Microsoft,
           | Databricks, etc. I picked a dud, and didn't realize it until
           | it was too late (just now). Question is .. what are the
           | obvious winners today, and for the next 10 years?
           | 
           | Some opportunities I missed but they didn't go anywhere:
           | Docker, Qualcomm.
           | 
           | Consumer Devices is a general dud I think. Software and data
           | is where it is at. I dunno?
        
             | seattle_spring wrote:
             | I remember losing a candidate to databricks around
             | 2012/2013. I thought he was making a bad decision. Hoo-boy
             | was I wrong.
        
               | uptownfunk wrote:
               | Right, now he's got really valuable Paper money that they
               | offer to buy back at a very steep discount. Anyhow
               | wouldn't feel bad about missing that one!
        
             | cvhashim04 wrote:
             | BioTech :P
        
               | kapilkaisare wrote:
               | Really? Tell me more, please.
        
             | iancmceachern wrote:
             | Robotics
        
       | garrickvanburen wrote:
       | Circa 2000, I was invited for a lunch interview.
       | 
       | I walk into a completely dark and empty cubicle space, one lit
       | office in the back.
       | 
       | Lunch meant the interviewer ate a Hot Pocket off a paper plate as
       | we talked.
       | 
       | Didn't even offer me any.
       | 
       | First interview I walked out of.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Ha I've had more than one of these (nothing this bad, but
         | still). Turns out for a lot of recruiters "lunch interview"
         | means interview that is scheduled during lunch, not interview
         | in which lunch is provided.
        
         | lagniappe wrote:
         | >Didn't even offer me any.
         | 
         | I hope that middle bite was frozen.
        
       | outsidetheparty wrote:
       | I should have spotted it but didn't: They took me out skiing one
       | day between interviews (they were courting me pretty hard, and
       | good snow was a selling point for the region) and I met the CEO
       | for the first time on the slopes.
       | 
       | He wore a full motorcycle-style helmet with a mirrored face visor
       | which he refused to open; it was like talking to a member of Daft
       | Punk. It had fake hologram bullet-holes on it.
       | 
       | More importantly, he skied like an asshole: cutting people off,
       | sudden stops or changes in direction without checking if anyone
       | else was coming, cutting ahead in the lift line, stopping to
       | readjust his gloves or whatever directly in the lift exit ramp,
       | shouting at people who he felt were in his way -- just totally
       | self-absorbed and borderline dangerous.
       | 
       | It turned out to match his management style 1000%.
        
         | nameless912 wrote:
         | My last CEO (healthcare startup) told me during my interview
         | with them "but you don't look autistic!" and that should have
         | been the end of the conversation there. When people show you
         | who they are, believe them and all that.
        
           | paulddraper wrote:
           | ....what was the lead up to that statement?
           | 
           | "I'm autistic"
           | 
           | "Oh, you don't seem autistic"
        
             | boringalterego wrote:
             | "Hi autistic, I'm dad. "
             | 
             | I've had that answer before... That was a fun but volatile
             | place to work for a summer internship.
        
         | natsucks wrote:
         | hilarious.
        
       | Huggernaut wrote:
       | I had an interview for a large well-known bank software
       | internship maybe 15 years ago. One interview was a role-play in
       | which I was attending a meeting in lieu of my boss with someone
       | from another division of the bank to discuss a behind-schedule
       | project.
       | 
       | Role-play starts and this guy storms in, slams the door and
       | starts shouting about how the software department are useless and
       | how are we going to proceed. At one point he yelled that without
       | his department we wouldn't have money to keep the lights on.
       | 
       | In retrospect, I'm sure this was a lot of fun for him and it
       | might have been a good filter but I also am more than happy that
       | I did not proceed to the next round if this is what they wanted
       | to show me about their culture.
        
       | hw-guy wrote:
       | When I was 19 and naive, I was interviewed for a desperately-
       | needed summer job selling dictionaries door-to-door. The head
       | interviewer wore a three-piece suit, gold watch, and an expensive
       | haircut. He told me that as a demonstration of my independence
       | and maturity, he wanted a commitment from me right then and there
       | that I would accept the job and sign all the paperwork if he made
       | an offer. If I wanted to go home and think about it or discuss it
       | with my parents, that meant I was "immature" and didn't have the
       | right stuff for the job.
       | 
       | Fortunately I had the presense of mind to see through that and
       | walked out. When I got back to school, I found out that a friend
       | of mine had worked for the same company selling Bibles in rural
       | Tennessee; he hated it so much that he quit after a couple of
       | weeks. He didn't make any money because the contract he had
       | signed required that he stay for the entire summer before seeing
       | a penny.
        
         | whycome wrote:
         | Made me think of this sketch:
         | https://archive.org/details/w-bob-david-the-salesman
        
       | kypro wrote:
       | I also don't signs of bureaucracy, lack of flexibility or
       | emotional manipulation generally.
       | 
       | If a company cannot negotiate salary because of some corporate
       | rules, I'm not interested. If a company will not give me any
       | flexibility in working hours I'm not interested. If a company
       | tries to make me feel bad about not immediately accepting their
       | offer I'm very likely to not accept their offer at all.
       | 
       | Rigid companies which have no regard for your emotional wellbeing
       | are not pleasant places to work and I struggle to give my best
       | when I feel I'm not respected.
        
       | 82123throwaway wrote:
       | Admitting the company is involved in drug trafficking.
       | 
       | EDIT: _illegal_ drug trafficking
        
         | Our_Benefactors wrote:
         | You can't lead with that and not tell the full story!
        
       | hondo77 wrote:
       | In retrospect: hiring managers having Ayn Rand books at work.
        
       | throw16180339 wrote:
       | She cited herself as a reference and her last three employers
       | were all clearly made up. Another coworker hired her anyways,
       | because of her appearance. It didn't end well.
        
       | throwaway1995v2 wrote:
       | Very long take-home assignments, I was interviewing with a
       | startup for a backend position. they gave me 5 days to build a
       | Cinema Ticket Reservation API, this by itself was long since it
       | required managing 5 to 6 tables with it corresponding crud and
       | business logic of each one (and also tests) but apart from that
       | they wanted to see complex data structures, design patterns,
       | caches strategies, be able to "scale", a design diagram, and as a
       | bonus if I wanted add a CI/CD pipeline.
       | 
       | I did only the core app, but none of the others stuffs beacase
       | that looked like way to much unpaid work just to "prove" my
       | ablities.
       | 
       | I should have known better becase they rejected me because the
       | project was to simple, wasn't going to "scale", and did'n used
       | any complex design patterns, a day an a half of work wasted.
        
       | nameless912 wrote:
       | Oh here's another one - I was interviewing at Google and got an
       | offer, and I decided to ask for a meeting with the HM because the
       | other job I was considering at the time gave me an interview with
       | the HM that was really enlightening and made me feel good about
       | taking the other job over Google. I figured it would be a good
       | way to directly compare the two jobs since the comp, etc. were
       | similar.
       | 
       | The moment I met the HM I wanted to leave. He was brusque, felt
       | like our entire meeting was a waste of time, and was, quote,
       | surprised that they had finally filled his job req. I tried to
       | brush this off as him having a bad day, and sat down for coffee
       | with him. We started having a stilted conversation in which I
       | mentioned that I had just adopted a dog, and his first response
       | was, "oh god, I _hate_ dogs, please never bring it to work."
       | 
       | That was kind of the end of that. Sure, maybe it's petty, but I
       | was getting bucketfuls of bad vibes from this guy.
        
       | jeffrallen wrote:
       | I went to a university where the NSA was heavily recruiting. I
       | had a bad feeling about it and not only stayed clear but also
       | asked some fellow students about the ethics of going to work for
       | the spooks. At least one told me, something like "someone else
       | takes care of ethics, I will just get to work on amazing stuff!"
       | 
       | Never looked back, never got a security clearance. Now I'm a dual
       | citizen, so basically neither of my countries probably trusts me.
       | :)
        
       | cmpalmer52 wrote:
       | Interviewed with a defense contractor. I had three "ins" at the
       | company and was basically interviewing to check them out because
       | I was about 90% sure I'd get an offer.
       | 
       | I was about to burn out at my current job at the time. Too much
       | stress, too many hours, too much crazy. At this interview, every
       | one I talked to talked about how "exciting" and "cutting edge"
       | everything they were doing was. "We barely finish a prototype
       | before they've changed the design and we have to start over
       | without testing the last one." "It's very fast paced, stuff is
       | changing all the time." "We work over some. Last week, I put in
       | 72 hours, but that's not typical." "A dozen companies have tried
       | to solve this problem, but we think we've finally figured it
       | out." And so on. And it was a weapon technology, which I had
       | ethical qualms about.
       | 
       | I called them back and withdrew my application. The HR guy said
       | he was preparing my offer. I told him I didn't want to see it. My
       | biggest fear was that it would be enough money to tempt me to
       | take the job and I would have been miserable.
       | 
       | Six months later, half of everyone there was laid off. They never
       | got the big problem solved. They lost several contracts. Dodged
       | that bullet (pun intended).
        
       | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
       | After a 1-hour presentation, "come back tomorrow and we'll tell
       | you the details of the job."
       | 
       | Nope.
        
       | nameless912 wrote:
       | I once was interviewing for an internship at a quant firm in
       | Chicago (I was in my Sophomore year I think at UIUC) and my
       | interview went pretty well up to the point of my second-last
       | interview of the day.
       | 
       | Then, I sat down with the VP of engineering, and he opened the
       | interview with "so, what do you think it is we do here?" And I
       | naturally stuttered through a canned answer about how they use
       | arbitrage opportunities in the market to profit off of mis-priced
       | securities, etc. Then he asked me, "but what benefit do we
       | provide? Why is working here good for society?"
       | 
       | I blanked, and didn't answer for about 15 seconds. Then, I tried
       | to start piecing together an answer until he stopped me, told me
       | he had found my Facebook, and wasn't appreciative of my politics
       | (I was moderately lefty in high school, significantly more so
       | now; maybe this conversation is part of why). He had _printouts_
       | of some posts I had made criticizing George W. Bush, talking
       | about why I thought we should be raising taxes on higher earners,
       | supporting Obamacare, etc. He told me that he didn't think I had
       | the "cojones to stomach the job" (direct quote), and told the
       | recruiter not to bother with the last interview and that I had
       | failed.
       | 
       | I _sobbed_ on the train home; I think it was the worst I had ever
       | felt about an interview in my entire life, and yet looking back
       | at it, I think this was the best possible outcome. Imagine if I
       | had worked for this asshole.
       | 
       | I've worked for companies I don't personally agree with in the
       | past; it's part of living in a society(TM). I am able to hold my
       | nose to a certain extent to make an income for my family (heck, I
       | am currently having to cross picket lines to come to work, which
       | makes me feel icky). But I can't fathom what hell I would have
       | been living under had I gotten and taken that job.
        
         | eachro wrote:
         | Which firm was this?
        
           | nameless912 wrote:
           | I don't remember at this point to be honest, this was
           | like...10 years ago? But this moment is seared in my mind.
        
         | hw-guy wrote:
         | I have a friend in a similar business who was honest enough to
         | admit that his impact on society was "likely negative, at best
         | neutral," but it was a comfortable living.
        
         | allo37 wrote:
         | I'm curious what the answer was. I've read plenty about how the
         | boutique finance sector is basically a parasite that only
         | benefits a small cohort of already wealthy individuals, would
         | like to hear what the other side has to say.
        
           | jerkstate wrote:
           | The answer I get from people working at market makers I've
           | talked to is that they provide liquidity (so you can buy or
           | sell a security immediately rather than waiting minutes or
           | hours?) and decrease volatility.
           | 
           | An example is onions futures; see
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act and check
           | the onions price history:
           | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WPU01130216/ compared to a
           | commodity where futures trading in common, like corn:
           | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/PMAIZMTUSDM where there
           | are price swings but the volatility and frequency of the
           | swings is lower.
           | 
           | I'm a layperson, not involved in finance, but this is the
           | value add I most commonly hear about.
        
             | scubbo wrote:
             | Likewise, this is the answer I generally hear from those
             | folks. IME it's still begging the question - the increased
             | liquidity is still overwhelmingly only meaningful to those
             | already-ultra-rich, unless you subscribe to trickle-down
             | Economics.
        
             | mihaaly wrote:
             | This does not sound as value for the society but advantage
             | for the tradesman.
        
             | abdullahkhalids wrote:
             | One set of markers of a "good" industry or organization is
             | whether they pay for all the harm they create in society
             | and whether their profits are equal to or below the value
             | they create for society.
             | 
             | For instance, the oil/car industry pays for basically none
             | of the large negative externalities they create. In this
             | case, I hazard that futures industry captures more value
             | than they create. And that value is extracted from other
             | players in the vertical chain, particularly farmers.
        
             | Turskarama wrote:
             | That's the benefit they give to their _customer_, which is
             | not the same as a benefit to _society_.
        
           | nameless912 wrote:
           | Right? Like, I tried really hard to prepare a very neutral
           | answer focusing on taking advantage of arbitrage and fixing
           | over- or under-priced securities, which I think is the
           | closest thing to a benefit you could come up with. And that
           | apparently wasn't good enough for this guy.
        
         | strikelaserclaw wrote:
         | Should have been honest and said "You contribute nothing to
         | society"
        
           | jacknews wrote:
           | I'm sure they already know that, indeed that they actually
           | contribute negatively, which is why you need to be able to
           | 'stomach the job'.
        
           | abjr wrote:
           | "You're just taking up space."
        
       | ipaddr wrote:
       | In the case above you agree and let them share details than say
       | thanks I'll let you know.
        
       | b20000 wrote:
       | coding interviews
        
         | jebarker wrote:
         | For coding jobs?
        
           | postalrat wrote:
           | Probably read about it somewhere.
        
             | icepat wrote:
             | Funny enough, my curent position did not give me a coding
             | interview. Rather they asked difficult technical questions
             | about the technologies I used, and asked me to justify my
             | use of them. I found this was a far better test, because
             | coding out an algorithm is something you can just memorise.
             | 
             | Example: "You've used k8s, how and in what context?" "Ok,
             | great, so you've AWS EC2 instances, how did you manage cost
             | and performance there?" "You're listing Clojure here, what
             | were your thoughts on X feature/limitation"? It was a
             | rather fluid discussion about the ins and outs of
             | technologies, stacks by engineers.
             | 
             | Sometimes actually interrogating someone's knowledge of a
             | system works just as well. I code a lot of things slowly,
             | and need to think through my designs with a pad of paper. I
             | really can't do it when someone is hovering over my
             | shoulder.
        
       | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
       | Back in 2014, I was an intern at a major tech company doing
       | software testing for $13.25/hr. I was about to finish my CS
       | degree and my internship was ending, so I was applying for
       | software engineering jobs.
       | 
       | During a phone screen at one company, they asked my salary
       | expectations, and I said $60K. They asked what I was currently
       | making, and I (naively) answered the $13.25/hr. They said they
       | could do $16/hr, and that I should consider that generous, as I
       | shouldn't expect to get more than 15% more when getting a new
       | job. Also, they would expect 50-55 hrs/week of work.
       | 
       | I noped out. Yeah, I needed work, but I wasn't desperate.
       | 
       | After looking at Glassdoor, I got the impression that this
       | company was preying on desperate new college grads, underpaying
       | the shit out of them while expecting the world so they don't have
       | time to apply for better jobs. One guy, in his review, said that
       | when asked about work-life balance, the manager said "We believe
       | in work-life _integration_. " He noped out just as quick.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | huhtenberg wrote:
       | Interviewed with a company that implemented their own healthcare
       | insurance. That is, if you have a medical issue, you tell _them_
       | what it is, they OK a doctor visit, then you pay for it, bring
       | the receipt and they will reimburse you as per their policies.
       | 
       | Also their compensation comprised a fixed salary and a
       | "guaranteed" bonus of about 20%, which together added up to the
       | market rate. However the bonus wasn't mentioned in the written
       | contract.
       | 
       | It was a high-tech hardware company of several dozen people with
       | their own clean-room manufacturing facilities. Interesting tech,
       | good product, but the CFO felt like a grifter and the CEO looked
       | like a retired gangster, with mannerisms to match, who spent
       | _all_ interview telling how much business prowess he had.
       | 
       | That was really bizarre.
        
       | alimw wrote:
       | "So what might have caused this strange new syndrome in our
       | trading platform?" "Perhaps one of the market participants was
       | doing something different?" "Nope."
       | 
       | Then literally two hours of me stumbling through possible
       | technical issues to do with the internals of a system I had never
       | seen. Even though I had thought I was being considered for my
       | maths rather than my computer skills.
       | 
       | "Well just so you know, it turned out that one of the guys
       | trading on the platform was doing something different." Laughing
       | politely, "but you told me...". "Oh well no that's not what I
       | would consider a market participant."
       | 
       | I call my laughter polite but I suspect it had an edge to it.
       | Anyway he immediately walked me out saying, "we'll send you
       | feedback." The feedback was that I had asked for too much money.
       | (I hadn't asked for anything.)
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2023-08-21 23:02 UTC)