[HN Gopher] How do we pay for parking?
___________________________________________________________________
How do we pay for parking?
Author : todsacerdoti
Score : 310 points
Date : 2023-08-19 20:32 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (cohost.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (cohost.org)
| rvnx wrote:
| If you want to get to the point of the story, +/- summary :
|
| An old lady in Seattle couldn't understand how to pay for parking
| using confusing parking apps.
|
| The author helped her, but the process was complicated and not
| user-friendly.
|
| He guided her through scanning a QR code and using parking apps,
| eventually helping her pay with the Park Mobile app using her
| credit card.
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| Sort of, if you skip the Google Ads, Google Instant Apps,
| Google Pay, and Google Location Services problems, which are
| all one company trying to collect data to use to serve ads.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| The tone of your oversimplification sounds like you have
| something against the author's opinion, which, if true, would
| be much better stated than sarcastically implied.
|
| Edit: The parent has been edited since I commented.
| version_five wrote:
| It's what the guidelines call a "shallow dismissal".
| rvnx wrote:
| ?
|
| I agree with the author, I just write it in a shorter way.
| Aachen wrote:
| (Not the person you were responding to.) I appreciate
| these types of comments, fwiw
| version_five wrote:
| Looks like it's been edited a bit, but when I first read
| it I got the impression you thought it was long and
| overly complicated and made a simple boring point. I'm
| not the only one who observed this, because the comment I
| replied to said the same thing.
| rvnx wrote:
| Yes, I added "If you want to get to the point of the
| story" to solve that impression, should be good now :)
| kortilla wrote:
| No it's not because it's not a dismissal.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| scandox wrote:
| I read the original with interest because it describes very
| well the absurdly crap systems the world has become infested
| with and which many of us on this site have become complicit in
| making.
|
| People are spending vast amounts of time fiddling with shit
| that doesn't work.
| boredemployee wrote:
| Man, exactly.
|
| We not only have created a complex society on all levels, but
| now a very difficult world to live, even the most simple
| events is now a pain in the ass.
|
| From restaurants to small markets, you now pay for a robot,
| you don't have a human to support you.
|
| things that were simple, became full of friction, all to
| collect our data.
| brianpan wrote:
| I don't think a summary quite does it. It's not just a
| complicated flow, like redesigning an app would solve it.
|
| It's: multiple competing apps, QR code scanners,
| advertisements, buggy apps, buggy payment taking.
| utybo wrote:
| Why have parking lots not kept their usual parking payment
| station things? In France, all paid parking I've seen has both
| options of an app or just using the parking meter payment thing
| (with the smartphone option usually being better because you can
| pay exactly by the minute instead of paying 1 whole hour)
| SenAnder wrote:
| Legally requiring businesses accept cash would solve much of
| this: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/austrian-leader-
| backs-f...
| valleyer wrote:
| Yeah, I've seen more than a few public parking facilities that
| _got rid_ of their existing payment terminals (which take
| credit card, and sometimes cash) in favor of smartphone-based
| payment.
|
| I struggle to understand what would motivate it, from the
| perspective of the parking lot owner. I would presume the up-
| front cost of the old terminals was already paid off. And they
| certainly are more user-friendly.
|
| Is it that the new smartphone payment providers are taking a
| smaller fee? That they are easier to switch between if the fees
| increase? Or what?
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| People vandalize the terminals. People have to collect cash
| from them. Have to make sure nobody put a skimmer on them.
|
| Physical infrastructure is to be avoided.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| The cost for those freestanding systems are usually pretty
| outrageous.
|
| It's a market like hotel WiFi. Early on, fancy hotels signed
| long contracts for shitty WiFi. Remember when you'd pay $10
| for some awful WiFi service at the Marriott? Those parking
| things are the same.
|
| I consulted for an entity that was paying $7.50 for a $25
| dip. There's hundreds of competing smartphone apps... you can
| even buy a square reader in a trivial scenario and pay 3%. In
| the government space, stuff like EZPass at airport parking
| costs $2-5 per transaction!
| throwawaaarrgh wrote:
| They want to push the cost onto the customer. If they don't
| have physical infrastructure it's a cost they don't have to
| maintain anymore. They know we will put up with the app
| bullshit because we have to park.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| A software engineer friend has a common refrain for situations
| like this: "all software is terrible."
|
| It is only a very slight exaggeration.
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| Such a good opportunity to link to
| https://www.stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks
| [deleted]
| diarrhea wrote:
| Yep.
|
| The other day I just wanted to update a dependency in my Python
| project and now it's crashing in CI (doesnt locally) due to a
| missing C header file. No amount of git clean allowed me to
| reproduce it locally (using venvs). It used to work fine
| before. I just gave up for now. The article summarises my
| feelings perfectly.
| NotYourLawyer wrote:
| #JustAndroidThings
| ImaCake wrote:
| In my city, we have the ticket machines and a _single_ app which
| you can use to pay as well. The instructions for said app are
| literally on the ticket machines. This system works; tech
| literate people can use the app, others can use the ticket
| machine. No one is forced to do capitalism to avoid a parking
| ticket.
| nadermx wrote:
| The horrors of bad urban design; solved by many competting apps.
| version_five wrote:
| Much of the value in "tech" is basically treating people like
| shit at scale. In this example, when a lot attendant was needed,
| they could only be so unhelpful. Now we don't need to pay them,
| can push their work onto customers, and simply magically drop any
| "problem" customers. Same with all this shit. Huge companies
| exist solely to prevent a human from getting human support, and
| many more extend the concept to "scale" without properly
| supporting customers.
| nine_zeros wrote:
| Oh, have you seen the number of self checkout at grocery
| stores? I need to do the work of a checkout counter person to
| pay? Wtf!
| mrd3v0 wrote:
| Actually as a consumer I prefer self check out. I am much
| quicker and it is more efficient because now you can have
| many of these tills in the same area that only a few would
| have fit, resulting in much faster experience than waiting in
| queues.
|
| That experience aside, I don't believe there should be jobs
| where you simply don't think. Manual labour jobs are unfair
| because they don't reward the brain whatsoever, no
| creativity, no one loves to do them, and they create a market
| of labourers with little to no transferable skills thus
| putting them in an unfair situation if they want or are
| forced to get a different job.
| [deleted]
| jonahbenton wrote:
| Agree. It is a serious problem when actual stuff in the world is
| based on shitty hell software- when the only way to do the stuff
| in the world is to enter into the shitty hell software world.
| Then it is exactly living in hell.
| nine_zeros wrote:
| Software is being built to line pockets, often scummily. Even
| Google search page is complete scum. So many ads.
|
| Software greed has made life hell.
| edoceo wrote:
| Greed has made life hell. Software is just the current common
| vehicle.
| jeremy_wiebe wrote:
| My personal pet peeve is lots that show you the apps you can pay
| for parking with, but then make it extremely difficult to find
| the lot ID.
|
| Pay-for parking feels like the kind of thing that should become a
| utility with one, easy, well-known way to pay for parking
| anywhere.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| "One way to park anywhere" sounds like a federated system,
| which is exactly how I think it should work. You could install
| one of many client apps, but all the parking companies can be
| paid for from any of them.
| NeoTar wrote:
| What is my incentive as a car-park owner to agree to your
| federated system when scummy company X has just offered me
| $1000 to exclusively allow them to collect fees for my car-
| park?
| NeoTar wrote:
| > Pay-for parking feels like the kind of thing that should
| become a utility with one, easy, well-known way to pay for
| parking anywhere.
|
| The trouble is that this either requires government regulation,
| or for one company to effectively become a monopoly, which can
| lead to different abuses.
| AverageDude wrote:
| Missing parking lot attendants, are we? Weren't they considered
| "bullshit jobs"?
| happytoexplain wrote:
| You're making leaps just for the opportunity to be snide.
| Attendants aren't the only solution by a long shot, and they
| are not a bullshit job absent other systems. You are
| criticizing the image of a person, not a specific person.
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| It's still a bs job.
|
| What is so difficult about getting a ticket and paying the
| ticket when you check out?
| spencerflem wrote:
| This is misinterpreting "Bullshit Jobs" which is used to
| describe the pain from doing a job that _the worker themselves_
| feels doesn 't need to be done.
|
| I don't know how parking lot attendees felt about their jobs,
| maybe they were
| IshKebab wrote:
| Uhm no. A payment machine with contactless payments would be
| fine.
|
| It's not hard. Even toddler rides at shopping centres have
| contactless now.
| lionkor wrote:
| In the Netherlands and Germany at least I have never dealt with
| a parking lot attendant. There's just a machine you walk to,
| put your card/cash/whatever in, and you get a paper that you
| put in your car. The whole process takes 1 minute, the things
| have accessibility features to some degree, and if they don't
| work there's another one somewhere or its free.
| t0mas88 wrote:
| Same experience. But in the US everything seems 99% anti-
| consumer while the majority of consumers keep
| supporting/voting for these things.
|
| Not just parking, also banking ($ 30 overdraft fee mentioned
| in the article), telecom, health insurance. All of it is
| designed in very anti-consumer ways in the US, even though
| consumers should be a majority of the votes in a democracy.
| throwawaaarrgh wrote:
| I. Hate. Technology. I hate working in this field. I hate how
| unprofessional every company is, from the largest to the
| smallest. I hate how incompetent all the engineers are. I hate
| how no business I have ever worked for has ever trained its
| workers on anything but how to fill out a time sheet. I hate all
| the blog posts about inane technical details. I hate how people
| start building a solution to a problem they're not familiar with.
| I hate how seemingly obvious and painful problems never get
| solved, because nobody has ever forced the entire product team to
| listen to a brand new user's feedback. I hate how this affects
| everything, so the problems just build and build and everything
| just gets worse and worse.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Yeah it's funny. Same here. I just want simple things, maybe
| with an occasional link with my phone.
|
| I don't want 500 knobs, a touchscreen on everything. I don't
| want your app, I don't want an account.
|
| The example of car parking.. the technology is there to make is
| 100% automatic. But then you can't fine people
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| It's not even the UI or the tech stack ... it's that it's tech
| at all.
|
| Am I required to own a smart phone now to park? Am I required
| to have a credit card to park?
|
| Idea:
|
| 1) Park without paying
|
| 2) Get towed
|
| 3) Sue the living shit out of the municipality so that they
| shut down modern parking meters.
| fatnoah wrote:
| Today, I literally spent 10 minutes downloading, installing,
| creating an account, and adding payment methods to an app so
| I could pay $0.40 to park for 30 minutes because the meter
| didn't have a coin slot and the credit card reader was
| broken.
|
| I was going to a local store to buy something. Amazon will
| probably get my business next time.
| mc32 wrote:
| Worst are the apps that force you to "charge" a card with
| some ridiculous minimum even if you only ever would be in
| that city once.
|
| Who is going to track my balance 5 years from now when a
| different company is granted the rights to collect parking
| for the city?
|
| I'm guessing there has to be a hidden option to only
| "charge" the app for what you want to reserve the spot for,
| else this seems illegal, but then again the city may be
| giving itself these mob-style rights.
| lamontcg wrote:
| > Amazon will probably get my business next time.
|
| I see we've hopped out of the frying pan and into the fire.
| molsongolden wrote:
| Semi-related, there's a somewhat established YC company whose
| entire business is facilitating smartphone gig app usage for
| seniors who call in for help.
|
| https://gogograndparent.com/
| gizajob wrote:
| Oh jeez. This is a semi-decent idea for a company so not
| sure of the need for downvotes...but at the same time it's
| a bit "we put a Service as a Service in your Service as a
| Service leveraged on Software as a Service!"
| [deleted]
| kiba wrote:
| If we have good public transit, people can just walk and not
| have to worry about parking, and the space that's formerly
| for parking cars can be used for something else.
| mkoubaa wrote:
| You can practice the craft of software for money without
| working on horseshit. You just might get paid a little less
| edoceo wrote:
| Yes, I do that one. I work with small team that is excited
| about the space. Each team member has opportunity (and
| obligation) to interact with clients. The relationships are
| great. The money is less than at $BigCo but still above
| median for the area. Actively working against
| enshittification -- but I still feel it's a futile battle.
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| > I hate how seemingly obvious and painful problems never get
| solved, because nobody has ever forced the entire product team
| to listen to a brand new user's feedback.
|
| Usually in this case the user is not the customer, so it does
| not matter.
| beeforpork wrote:
| Yeah. Don't take it too seriously, though. It's probably the
| same in other branches. You just happen to know this one best.
|
| Try to concentrate on the other stuff in life, maybe.
| dang wrote:
| Ok, but please don't fulminate on HN. This is in the site
| guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
| doesnt_know wrote:
| 100% completely agree, the only reason I work in this field is
| because it's both easier and pays significantly more compared
| to every other job I've had and could potentially ever get.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| > I. Hate. Technology. I hate working in this field.
|
| Periodically I joke around with my family that when I retire
| (I'm 49 now, so it's not all that far away), I'm never touching
| another computer again. Ever. Each time I make that joke, it's
| a little less joke and a little more of an actual plan.
| pb7 wrote:
| I'm sorry to say but you guys haven't had a single hard day
| in your life if computers and technology are this traumatic
| to you. You would crumble under the weight of life just a
| hundred years ago.
|
| You are an artist with a blank canvas that countless people
| in the world will pay you life changing amounts of money to
| draw on. If you choose to paint in a way that you hate,
| that's on you.
| TheMode wrote:
| Humans are quick at adapting. Saying that our specie has
| been living in absolute terror for the past millenniums and
| that we somehow solved it in our century is pretty
| arrogant.
| abraae wrote:
| In the book "soul of a new machine", one of the engineers
| burns out.
|
| > He went away from the basement and left this note on his
| terminal: "I'm going to a commune in Vermont and will deal
| with no unit of time shorter than a season."
| [deleted]
| jakear wrote:
| seattle, of all places, should legislate that software built on
| public money must be publicly available and open for public
| contributions (with appropriate vetting ofc).
|
| literal thousands of engineers could do better, but may not, and
| are instead subjected to the profiteers.
| techsupporter wrote:
| Seattle could try (I don't think it would pass constitutional
| muster), but that wouldn't help here. The person is describing
| privately-owned parking lots. Paying for storing your private
| auto on the public street can still be done by hand at a
| machine.
| baggy_trough wrote:
| Many everyday interactions are so complicated and filled with so
| many landmines that you need a high IQ just to have a chance.
| liendolucas wrote:
| Oh yes, the world is enshittificating at an unbelievable pace.
| Here's one I have recently had to deal with. Sometime ago I
| failed my theory driving exam. The computers presented a series
| of 30 questions, to which you answer true or false. Fast
| forwarding to a few weeks ago, I found myself for round 2. The
| computers have all been changed. Shiny IBMs ThinkCentre with a
| small camera on top. The exam is supposed to start, but it
| doesn't. After 20 minutes of hearing someone absolutely not
| understanding why all the computers were blocked they suddenly
| are ready for its candidates to answer the questions. The little
| camera on top, why is there? Because if you deviate your eyes
| from it the quiz gets temporarily blocked until you get lucky
| once again and allows you to continue. WHY on earth the italian
| goverment has decided to spend money on this crap instead of
| buying simple cheap computers with a mighty reliable mouse is
| beyond my imagination. Ah before I forget, there was also a
| pinwheel in the corner whose only main purpose was to do facial
| recognition the same way is done in some airports. This is the
| enshittified world that we live in today, and it will get much
| much worse. Can we please stop all this BS?
| frollo wrote:
| Italian government and enshittification, name a more iconic
| duo, I'll wait.
|
| They built (more correctly, paid) for the IO app for it to be
| the one touch point for interacting with the government, then
| started cutting off features from it in other apps. Now they
| want to aggregate everything again on CIE, which not everyone
| has yet. Then you have local governments (looking at you,
| Lombardia) which build random apps which technically support
| SPID (something like state-provided SSO) and CIE (SAME THING)
| but wrap them through their custom authentication system
| because what's better than multiple passwords for the same
| account? Which already has 2FA?
|
| Man, I wonder if they ever use the crap they build.
| liendolucas wrote:
| I don't know everyone else, but this is certainly not how I
| expected technology to evolve in general. A completely
| unnecessary over-engineered world. For me no technology has
| to negatively interfere with what you're supposed to do and
| more important, there always has to be a human back up
| alternative. Is infuriating to assume that every single human
| being is supposed to have a smart phone to pay for parking. I
| do really feel sorry for the elders the way they are being
| technologically-excluded.
| etothepii wrote:
| The problem of the modern automation is that if I can save my
| company 1c by wasting an hour of your time then I am incentivised
| to do so.
| [deleted]
| Animats wrote:
| Can you pay for parking via a web page, rather than installing
| some intrusive "app"?
| frollo wrote:
| Are you seriously asking this question in 2023? Nobody makes
| web pages anymore, just make an app and require access to a ton
| of user data just to sell them for shady purposes.
| akaiser wrote:
| Yes, try https://m.paybyphone.com
| PartiallyTyped wrote:
| This is the bad place.
| mkoubaa wrote:
| What's next, a robot valet that rideshares your car to pay the
| bill?
| [deleted]
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| I also live in Seattle. On iOS these QR code paylots are actually
| super simple and kinda nice.
|
| I scan the code. It pops up a website with all the lot
| information known. I select a number of hours. I specify either a
| stall number or plate number. Then I pay with Apple Pay.
|
| I have never had to download any kind of app. And definitely
| never need to grant location permissions.
| mkl95 wrote:
| > the lot has three signs hung up with instructions on how to
| pay, because every single lot in town supports one to five
| different competing parking lot apps
|
| Competition sucks when it's a race to the bottom. Those systems
| usually look like some early 1800s dude's idea of a parking lot
| system. The technology to make them secure AND nice to use has
| been there for at least a decade.
| foresto wrote:
| This story makes me sad and a little angry. The bits that stand
| out for me are:
|
| - The requirement to have a smartphone and mobile data service.
|
| - The requirement to run untrusted code (granting whatever
| "permissions" it demands) on her personal device.
|
| I think it's important that necessities and other basic services
| (including parking) remain equally accessible to everyone, not
| locked away behind expensive, often burdensome, usually
| exploitative technology products. I don't know if legislation is
| the best way to keep our society from being pushed toward the
| latter, but if that's what it takes, I would support it.
| akaiser wrote:
| Technically there is no requirement for a mobile app or data.
| Through PayByPhone you can pay for parking using SMS, by
| calling (IVR), a web app or mobile apps. But as the author
| points out, it's hard for the user to know about all the
| options. That's why I'm personally not a fan of cities that
| allow more than one vendor. How to advertise all of them on
| sign posts and stickers (sometimes given different location IDs
| that you need to use with each vendor) without overwhelming the
| user?
|
| Note: I work at PBP
| renewiltord wrote:
| I haven't had any trouble with PayByPhone in San Francisco.
|
| The ParkMobile app I recall using in Monterey and it was fine
| too. Reminders around when to top up etc., which is nice but it
| was fine.
| amluto wrote:
| I think that, as a general principle, terms, conditions, privacy
| policies, and other contracts that part of something incidental
| to the primary purpose of a service, should be entirely void
| regardless of whether they are supposedly accepted.
|
| Signing up for school or doing anything effectively required for
| school? Third-party terms should not be relevant.
|
| Parking? If the parking lot itself has legal terms, okay (whether
| any such terms should be allowed is a different issue). But the
| app? No terms should be valid. If the app collects location data,
| it should be liable, full stop.
|
| Eating at a restaurant? Toast's terms should not matter.
| [deleted]
| konschubert wrote:
| I just can't fathom how a business would not care about the loss
| of revenue from making it THIS hard for the customers to pay.
|
| Is it possible that the parking prices in the city of the author
| are legally capped and are not reflecting actual demand? This
| would mean that the parking lot is basically filled every day
| anyways, and the business doesn't see any ways to increase
| revenue by improving satisfaction.
| doublespanner wrote:
| Depending on the place, if you fail to pay it's actually more
| valuable to them, due to fees.
| pas wrote:
| they care, but they are victim of shitty app development
| companies, and in turn they are victims of the Android/iOS
| development ecosystems
|
| fixing is in progress. just as redesign. just as upgrading to
| whatever next version, and so on.
|
| but costs have already spiraled out of control, there are a lot
| of competitors, and all this doesn't make sense, but probably
| has some VC money in it somewhere.
| guy4242 wrote:
| I have to help my parents with something like this at least once
| a month. The last one was trying to find a traffic school for my
| dad to go to. There was no way he could ever figure it out, and
| even I had trouble with the horrible UI on the website. I decided
| a year ago not to move more than an hour away from them.
| toddmorey wrote:
| Even worse, my Dad met us for brunch and overstayed his allotted
| time in one of these systems by 8 minutes. Would be ok if they
| billed him the same rate perhaps, but they "fined" him $80 for
| the "violation". All the while trying to look like the local
| police as much as possible. All these companies are scam artists.
| crote wrote:
| The whole concept of "allotted time" is a scam anyways. Sure,
| it made sense with analog pre-paid parking meters, but it's
| complete nonsense when you are modernizing it like this.
|
| Billing the actual parking time down to the minute is pretty
| trivial, so having to reserve a specific time means they are
| intentionally trying to defraud you by either a) making you pay
| for time you won't use, or b) fining you for not reserving
| enough time.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Love how when someone overpaid in coins the next one parking
| there could take advantage of it while now the payment is
| instead tied to your license plate.
|
| Actually, I don't love it at all.
| mikeryan wrote:
| In downtown Santa Cruz the only way you can pay is by the
| minute via ParkMobile I believe.
|
| I always forget to stop the timer when I get back to the car
| and pay the Max so I hate it. YMMV
|
| Maybe it's me but I prefer the allotted time. I only regret
| that when paying at a meter at least if I have excess someone
| else can use it.
| winrid wrote:
| Chargeback!
| t0mas88 wrote:
| Most of these shitty apps pay over 10 dollars to the payment
| companies to process a chargeback. And if they get too many
| their rates increase or they get kicked out.
|
| So chargebacks for bullshit "fines" is a great solution to
| teach them not to charge those.
| anonymousiam wrote:
| Parking in Seattle sucks. The last time I was there (10 years
| ago), I got a parking citation left on my windshield. It said I
| was in violation of the no parking hours, which I was not (proven
| with photograph). I had to go to some shady private business to
| contest it, but was eventually successful.
| ldehaan wrote:
| [dead]
| reilly3000 wrote:
| Bill my license plate. That is the UX I want.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| That's working out great in New York.
|
| They timed the release of photo-rolling with a few years worth
| of defective, delaminating license plates, and many people
| deface or bend the plates.
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| Hell no. Having a plate stolen and then having to prove you
| weren't in a certain place is sometimes near impossible.
| NeoTar wrote:
| I think that introduces some problems:
|
| - who should have access to the database linking license plates
| to addresses?
|
| - what about people with vehicles other countries? Less of a
| problem in North America, but I recently was in Canada, and saw
| some vehicles with German number plates!
|
| - what about false number plates? Or misreads? How does one
| defend against them?
|
| For the last one - a hilarious example:
| https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-somerset-58959930
| [deleted]
| Uvix wrote:
| Best hope nobody steals your car, then.
| makapuf wrote:
| Cant you then declare your car stolen and you get notified
| your car is here ?
| insickness wrote:
| I don't think you do, not when you get the bill and it's for
| way more than you would have agreed to.
| konschubert wrote:
| That's how it works in Scandinavia.
| deathanatos wrote:
| This is actually how New England handles toll roads. (Not
| parking.)
|
| You have to write a law with it that says "rental car company's
| can't charge a junk fee of $25/day" or whatever. (Which is
| roughly what we were charged the last time we accidentally --
| there wasn't a toll booth! -- took a rental through a toll. $25
| from the rental car company for a $1 toll. We own an EZ pass
| now to avoid this very problem.)
| Spooky23 wrote:
| You have to be careful with that, as EZPass will fine you for
| not pre-registering your tag and plate.
| kzrdude wrote:
| A newer parking house in Oslo has this as one of the options
| for billing. Do nothing and this happens.
| barrysteve wrote:
| Heaven forbid there be an overriding structure that determines
| who can provide parking apps across the country.
|
| Wait there's another activity a global mega corp can monopolize
| and overcomplexify.
|
| Incentives are nonsensicle when the primary task is not providing
| a service, but using the service as a vehicle to explore
| software.
|
| Parking apps are a solved problem. Why are we submitting that
| class of problem to tech abuse?
|
| Feynman was right, even smart people get on computers and begin
| to 'play'. Pointlessly so, in pragmatic terms.
| paganel wrote:
| Parking apps are the work of the devil, and the devs and all the
| people involved in implementing them should be ashamed each and
| every day they go to work. And I write that from half a globe
| away from Seattle, in Eastern Europe, that is. At least some of
| the cities in here still give you the possibility of paying by
| SMS, for now.
| Michelangelo11 wrote:
| I must invoke spirit mentor grug (https://grugbrain.dev/) and
| say: complexity very, very bad.
| d136o wrote:
| Some people say that the common folk now have cheap mass produced
| gadgets that were previously only available to the wealthy, and
| some rant about the enshitification (great term whose origin I
| need to learn more about of) of our society.
|
| I nod along to this piece and yet I don't want to be so cynical.
| pas wrote:
| the term is coined by Cory Doctorow, pointing out that
| ecommerce middlemen, usually platforms have outsized pricing
| power (because they are in their quasi-oligopoly due to network
| effects).
| gizajob wrote:
| Does make one think how amazing the UI on cash and coins can be.
|
| My city similarly has a city-wide app that runs the parking
| meters that is chronically bad and clunky. Even has a bug where
| no matter how long a duration one picks, it only puts 30 minutes
| parking on, while charging a 20p service charge every time one
| pays for parking. The only real option is to keep using it every
| 30 minutes, and paying the extra 20p every time. It's just
| shockingly, laughably, horrendously bad badness.
| bluepnume wrote:
| We built a startup.
|
| You scan a QR code, that sends a text message. If you have a
| saved card, you pay in the text thread by replying 'pay now', if
| not you get a link to save a new card.
|
| No apps required. Hoping that with enough adoption, it will
| obviate the need for experiences as bad as this.
| xg15 wrote:
| Sounds good, and you probably have the best intentions, but
| right now, that would just make you standard no. 15.
|
| It's quite possible that the third sign on OP's parking lot
| would have led them to a perfectly user-friendly app with a
| pleasant and simple payment flow. But with so many apps to
| choose from and each lot only supporting a random subset of
| them, it'd be basically luck if you get to use the "good" app,
| even if there exists one.
| bluepnume wrote:
| You can also imagine a world where you have a single phone
| number saved. You text it "I'm at XYZ parking lot in ABC
| city, how do I pay?" and it gives you the easiest possible
| option.
|
| Definitely standard no. 15, but there's room for something
| better to win out here right?
| xg15 wrote:
| One obstacle to this is mentioned on the OP: People might
| not actually know the street address of the parking lot
| they are standing in, so you'd have to use some other means
| of identification, like a lot number or geolocation -
| however, then you're back to requiring an app...
| bluepnume wrote:
| Not necessarily. "I want to pay for parking" -> "Click
| this link" -> quick automatic web based geolocation and
| redirect back to the SMS thread -> done.
| xg15 wrote:
| Good point actually. But if you already got the user onto
| a webpage, why not complete the flow there?
| bluepnume wrote:
| Mainly because the message thread is implicitly
| authenticated, so no additional web login required -- and
| we want to allow for conversational payments, where you
| can ask as many questions as you need before committing
| to pay.
| bogwog wrote:
| My rear camera doesn't work, am I screwed?
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| I left my phone at home. I know I'm screwed.
| dalmo3 wrote:
| I know text is still a thing in the US, but everywhere else,
| that's a huge no no. Phishy as hell.
|
| Good luck nonetheless.
| bluepnume wrote:
| Doesn't have to be hugely phishy if you have a saved contact
| card with a number you trust. That's often safer than some
| new app or web url that is imitating another.
| sneak wrote:
| 50-75% of the year I have service on my phone that only
| supports IP networking and does not support SMS or calls - a
| data only SIM.
| bluepnume wrote:
| Totally fair. It's entirely possible to have a fallback web
| url here though.
| ill13 wrote:
| So an enterprising individual puts a QR sticker right near or
| over yours and does the same thing, except theirs is a scam.
|
| - That should take all of 4-16 hours to setup the software /
| web side and payment processing [processors who do cannabis /
| adult products].
|
| - 1 hour to run to Staples and get some laser Av3ry pre-cut
| stickers.
|
| - 1 hour to replace | supplement your 'real' stickers.
| bluepnume wrote:
| Sure -- phishing is a huge problem, but it's also an argument
| to never build anything ever, because QR codes, sites, apps,
| emails, etc. can all easily be cloned and used as a phishing
| attack vector.
| klyrs wrote:
| Nope, QR codes are the easiest phishing vector. Just slap a
| sticker over the old one.
| dsego wrote:
| In Croatia you can pay via SMS, just send a message to the
| phone number listed on the machine, you type in your plate
| number and receive a confirmation. The only caveat is some
| additional transaction cost over paying via the machine.
| zekrioca wrote:
| The problem is requiring a smartphone in the first place
| bluepnume wrote:
| Assuming you've linked a card in the past, or you have a
| basic browser of any kind to link one, our thing does not
| require a smart phone. Just SMS.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Scanning the QR code makes your device text the company? Or you
| scan it and enter in your phone number? What if I don't have a
| saved card? Still seems just as bamboozling
| lol768 wrote:
| I assumed it was using one of those old pay-by-SMS mechanisms
| to bill the user, so they have to first type in their phone
| number?
| bluepnume wrote:
| It pre-fills a text message which you can send to
| authenticate yourself. If you don't have a saved card, you're
| prompted to enter one via a web url.
| spr93 wrote:
| No way am I giving your startup* my phone number. Maybe you can
| have a custom-generated, one-use-only email address that I can
| turn off so you don't spam me. (Your startup may be virtuous,
| but most startups fail, and then my data becomes an asset that
| gets sold away in bankruptcy.)
|
| I also hope that your startup has been advised on the very
| significant TCPA liabilities this approach risks. Even if you
| do everything right, you're going to face lawsuits saying you
| don't. I have very mixed feelings about the TCPA, and it does
| hamper "innovation" in some circumstances, but I am delighted
| that it carries significant litigation risk for anyone who
| thinks it's a good idea to send me SMS messages. I. Don't.
| Want. Them.
| bluepnume wrote:
| Actually "single use phone numbers" is a service we've
| considered building for consumers.
| version_five wrote:
| Just an observation, parking, self checkout, payment terminals,
| etc are examples where the general public is forced to interact
| with "enterprise" style software, as in software that's not
| bought by users and so ignores their needs and prioritizes what
| business buyers want.
|
| Anyone who works with such software at work (like SAP) knows it's
| UX is garbage and it's not for them. But now the same model is
| being foisted on the masses.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| Have you been to a Uniqlo lately? Actually good self checkout.
| You just dump your clothes in a bin and it scans everything.
| Like black magic compared to typical self checkout systems.
|
| Edit: system described here-
| https://www.chargedretail.co.uk/2022/08/26/4-stand-out-examp...
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| But hey, it could be _even worse_.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG6KA6V4T7w
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| A 6 minute video weighting at about 150MiB for "explaining"
| what can be summarized in a couple sentences of text is another
| particular version of hell.
| djbusby wrote:
| Why didn't you explain it? Is this more hell?
| lionkor wrote:
| Why didnt you? Now I have to go watch the video on
| expensive data, darn it
| djbusby wrote:
| I didn't watch the video then but I will for you.
|
| It's about the Chicago Parking deal in 2008 with some
| machines for parking. Daley gave control of parking
| meters to a private company until 2083. Sold out his
| citizens. For a super discount. And now, in a shocking
| twist, the private company is squeezing the citizens and
| government.
|
| It's a pretty good watch.
| t0mas88 wrote:
| I close the YouTube app anytime it makes me watch more than a
| 5 seconds skippable ad. This was one of those times so I have
| no idea what was in the video :-)
|
| In other words: Fuck Google and their ad bullshit.
| seabass-labrax wrote:
| Half as Interesting could alternatively be titled Double as
| Long. Most of the extra length is taken up with in-jokes and
| the obligatory streaming service advertisement, but you could
| try the browser plugin 'SponsorBlock' to cut the length back
| down.
| [deleted]
| p1mrx wrote:
| youtubetranscript.com + ChatGPT summary:
|
| Street parking, a universal hassle, is especially problematic
| in Chicago due to the infamous Chicago parking meter deal. This
| deal permitted a private company to take control and revenue
| from all 36,000 of the city's parking meters. In return, the
| city received a lump sum of $1.16 billion. However, this
| arrangement has led to numerous financial and political
| challenges that won't conclude until 2083.
|
| The root of this decision can be traced back to the 2008
| financial crisis when Chicago was grappling with a significant
| budget deficit. Mayor Richard M. Daley, in an attempt to
| address this, chose to privatize the parking meters without
| adequate analysis. Surprisingly, the city's aldermen approved
| this deal by a vote of 40 to 5, despite having limited time to
| review the terms. These aldermen have since faced criticism for
| their apparent lack of due diligence.
|
| The beneficiaries of this deal, Chicago Parking Meters LLC (a
| consortium formed by Morgan Stanley, Allianz Capital partners,
| and The Sovereign wealth fund of Abu Dhabi) saw immense
| profits. This was largely due to stipulations in the agreement
| that increased parking rates, ensuring a steady rise in
| revenue. Furthermore, the city now finds itself in a position
| where it has to pay penalties whenever it undertakes any
| actions that could potentially dip into the company's profits.
| This has amounted to Chicago paying the company over $75
| million since the deal's inception.
|
| Additionally, this arrangement severely restricts the city's
| urban development endeavors. For instance, adding bike lanes or
| implementing other urban reforms now comes with the caveat of
| compensating the company for any possible lost revenues. An
| attempt to challenge this by claiming the company held an
| illegal monopoly was dismissed in court twice. The courts
| deemed that while the deal might not have been the wisest
| choice, it wasn't illegal. So, due to the financial pressures
| of the crisis, Chicago ended up making a deal that has
| permitted financial institutions to reap substantial profits
| from city property for an extended period.
| dna_polymerase wrote:
| Lol, this isn't a story about parking lot apps, guys! It is about
| how our industry (software) turn everything into shit.
| dools wrote:
| This is the direct and deliberate result of small government
| libertarianism. Even if a private parking app is used it should
| be procured by local government according to a set of
| accessibility criteria, not left to competing private sector
| organisations. Parking is a natural monopoly, it's an area where
| consumers do not want choice, and should be supplied as a public
| good, just like public transport and health and education.
| blarnopre wrote:
| Accurate title: non tech savvy android users live in hell
| hermannj314 wrote:
| If you aren't literate, life is hard.
|
| If you aren't digitally literate, life is hard.
|
| The problem is some people were 50 years old when the the 2nd
| statement became true. For nearly everyone alive, the first
| statement has always been true. I think the government is
| failing its citizens by assuming digital literacy is
| commonplace.
| TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
| The literacy rate for all males and females that are at least
| 15 years old is 86.3%. Males aged 15 and over have a literacy
| rate of 90%, while females lag only slightly behind at 82.7%.
| notjulianjaynes wrote:
| >The literacy rate for all males and females that are at
| least 15 years old is 86.3%. Males aged 15 and over have a
| literacy rate of 90%, while females lag only slightly
| behind at 82.7%. _However, massive country-to-country
| differences exist. Developed nations almost always have an
| adult literacy rate of 96% or better._
|
| https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-
| rankings/literacy-...
|
| (In case anyone else read the above comment and thought
| these numbers sounded low.)
| abraae wrote:
| Author is a tech-savvy Android user, so no.
| moooo99 wrote:
| I support this statement! I'm a reasonably tech-savvy iOS
| user, and these parking apps are among the worst digital
| experiences I have ever encountered. And I say that as a
| frequent SAP Concur user
| vntok wrote:
| Author knew what to try next at every single point of the
| story.
| abraae wrote:
| How many points should there be to simply pay for your
| parking?
| happytoexplain wrote:
| The described landscape is hellish for the tech savvy, too.
| Just slightly less so. Regardless, why disparage non-tech-savvy
| people? That's most people.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| Or for actual computer users who want to avoid Android like the
| plague it is (also iOS).
|
| Between this (I've basically given up parking on the streets
| ever again, I'm now forced to always go for actual parkings)
| and banks, it is indeed hell.
| sleepycatgirl wrote:
| It is hell even for tech savvy android though.
| boppo1 wrote:
| Maybe Musks' 'everything app' vision is going to work after all.
| mise_en_place wrote:
| In this country? No way. Look at the state of SWE in 2023.
| LadyCailin wrote:
| I already have one of those, it's called a credit card.
| pard68 wrote:
| Huh, I haven't had to pay for parking in a decade. I hate phones,
| and modern tech.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| If you never go anywhere other than stores that is probably
| true.
| causality0 wrote:
| He's completely right, of course. It's a huge pain even in places
| like my state where pay lots still have pay stations and paper
| tickets.
|
| That aside, I cannot be the only person shocked to be finding out
| through Hacker News that CathodeRayDude is a scaly.
| akira2501 wrote:
| Digital feudalism at it's finest.
|
| "You wish to park on Lord Absentee's land? You must enroll
| yourself in his service, then, peasant!"
| rcpt wrote:
| Free parking is theft
| bombcar wrote:
| Down with house rules! Up with monopoly rules as intended!
| paganel wrote:
| Free walking on public sidewalks is also theft, following the
| same logic. Or sitting in place for a little too long.
| reilly3000 wrote:
| There is a big difference in the law between persons and
| chattel property. Imagine leaving anything but a car on the
| side of a public roadway.
| Avshalom wrote:
| Free trash cans? Theft!
| veave wrote:
| They'll tell you that as a human you have every right to
| use public space but as soon as you get inside a vehicle
| you turn into Hitler.
| tom_ wrote:
| As anybody that has spent any time navigating the roads
| can attest, that transformation is indeed precisely what
| actually happens.
| [deleted]
| whirlwin wrote:
| The parking companies are the worst kind of parasitic leeches out
| there. I had a similar experience when travelling to Denmark (I
| live in Norway). The sign said that you can pay with ParkLink,
| which I happened to have installed. I opened it, but no parking
| shows up nearby, and the parking code was not valid either. Turns
| out you have to have the Danish ParkLink app installed. Well of
| course! Also, pro tip, if you use Android, use ADB to dig out
| logs of these apps. I had to do it with EasyPark once because I
| told them the service was down, and they insisted otherwise. But
| the app logs showed that it in fact was unavailable for a
| period... Where is the dignity in these companies?
| t0mas88 wrote:
| If you have enough cash the easy solution is to never pay and
| just accept the fines. One of my colleagues did this for a few
| years in Amsterdam. We all thought he was crazy, but his total
| in parking fines was lower than the total most of us paid to
| Park Mobile in the same timeframe...
| [deleted]
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| This is the native app world we built instead of using websites.
| iPhone wanted this.
| deathanatos wrote:
| ... I think partly this is that Android has lacked a decent QR
| code scanner (out of the box) for far too long. The hardware
| has been there forever ... but you're forced to choose an app,
| and thus you have to have the nose to be able to suss crapware
| from not.
|
| Google Goggles grew the functionality years ago, but even
| recently it will still deliver Artificial Idiocy level results:
| I scanned a QR code this year (I think it was?) and the AI
| thought about it and ... told me it was a QR code. "Here are
| image results from the web of other QR codes!" _sigh_
|
| So I have a dedicated app for this.
|
| The camera app has grown built in support for them, but the UI
| is hot garbage. I'm not at all sure how one is supposed to
| _discover_ it; there 's no button for it, no label, nothing to
| really indicate it. You just point it at a QR code, but it's
| then pretty terrible at recognizing them, so even if you're
| doing everything right ... you might just get nothing, with no
| feedback.
|
| So I _still_ have a QR scanner app, as it is far easier to work
| and more reliable at scanning than the camera app is...
| treyd wrote:
| It disgusts me how much duplicated effort there is with services
| like these. We can debate about the merits of market competition
| but what are they really competing over? The controlling factor
| is parking availability, there isn't really anything to
| _innovate_ about paying for parking fees. The people who choose
| these apps aren 't even really the ones that have to use them the
| most, because god knows the people that own the parking lot get
| free parking, and the "markets" for parking lots are not
| organized such that people who need to park can't really just
| decide not to park at a particular lot because they realize they
| use a shitty service to collect fees. This is a huge indicator
| that these services should be owned by municipal governments and
| cities should pool their resources on a standard shared platform
| / software suite instead of duplicating the effort making
| identical competitors.
|
| Lots of industries like this, frankly. Another one that comes to
| mind is recruiting. Hundreds of thousands of duplicated man-
| hours, for what? Are any of them really better than the other?
| How do you "innovate" in these kinds of industries?
| burcs wrote:
| Modern parking lots always seem ripe for physical phishing, whats
| stopping someone from sticking up a couple of QR codes that link
| to a fraudulent payment page or some other malware?
|
| This is one of those things that tech really didn't "fix" and now
| I have to select from one of 20 apps instead of just paying with
| cash or even a credit card.
| Hnaomyiph wrote:
| Seems like a good avenue for parking protests. All you need is
| a small buzz for people to never trust the app-based systems.
| 6177c40f wrote:
| One would think this would happen pretty often, but at least my
| cursory search didn't turn up many specific examples of it
| happening in the US. I wonder why that is?
| throwawaysleep wrote:
| A lot more work when there are an abundance of gullible
| people via email.
| ge96 wrote:
| I paid this booth last night, wasn't even sure if they were
| legit
| ocdtrekkie wrote:
| This is a well-known problem at more than just parking lots.
| Any proprietor using QR codes in their place of business should
| generally be policing the property for rogue stickers.
| Obviously, quality of the business matters here a lot for that.
| ivan_gammel wrote:
| Fix: "using QR codes" is unnecessary. Just every business
| with public access to the property. Customers of a business
| not using QR codes are vulnerable to the same scam.
| thechao wrote:
| I have, on multiple occasions (in Austin, >10 years ago), paid
| for parking to an "attendant" at a lot I _know_ is free. Those
| guys will just have your car towed -- the whole scam just hangs
| together: the towing company charges you for the storage &
| processing, but not the nominal fee; the attendant gets cash.
| Win-win-lose.
| aBioGuy wrote:
| I remember when I moved to DC many years ago we drove to an
| art exhibit (in an empty building way away from the metro).
| There was a guy walking up and down the road saying "$5 to
| park!" I paid him and in the elevator an older woman smugly
| told me "It's free to park here!" I told her "I know, I'm
| paying for him to not break MY window." The look on her
| face....
| konschubert wrote:
| What if you just send the police after them if they tow your
| car?
| kortilla wrote:
| How can they have it towed if it's free. That's just theft.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Two things. Sometimes these venue areas have other central
| business district employers who don't allow overnight or
| weekend parking for the public, but don't enforce it. (But
| they are signed to allow towing) The fake parking guy
| probably has a relationship with the tow driver.
|
| Also, tow operators are generally pretty shady. Because
| they operate in a second responder capacity, they have
| personal relationships with cops and sheriffs, repair
| garages, etc.
| asah wrote:
| Towing companies enjoy special privileges and presumed
| innocent, e.g. no penalties for "towing the wrong car."
| jakelazaroff wrote:
| I mean, everyone is (supposed to be) presumed innocent.
| But point taken about the special privileges.
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| It approaches qualified immunity.
|
| Consider an AWD BMW without badges. If it's a 3 series or
| above all you know is that it's either RWD or AWD.
|
| If they tow it by the rear wheels you blow up your
| transfer case. But try and prove that it was THAT action
| that blew it up.
| ciupicri wrote:
| The proper way to deal with this is to lift the car using
| a crane and put it on a platform like this
| https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/seeligstadt-
| germany...
| nikanj wrote:
| Call your buddy at the towing company, give them $20 cash.
|
| Criminals are quite efficient at getting things done
| KRAKRISMOTT wrote:
| A lot of the blue collar professions are in cahoots with
| organized crime (and similarly many adjacent white collar
| industries like real estate)
|
| In New York it has gotten so bad that even first responders
| have been subverted
|
| https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/gang-members-and-
| others...
| woodruffw wrote:
| "Fire Mitigation" are not first responders: they're
| private entities that listen to the FDNY's radio
| frequencies and follow them around. They're ambulance
| chasers and that's always been a scummy domain; it'd be
| much more surprising (and worse) if FDNY themselves were
| somehow involved.
| LandR wrote:
| In my city, in the rougher parts it used to be somewhat
| normal to pay someone to "look after your car", of course you
| were paying them not to vandalise it while you were away!
| Especially popular on football days when parking near the
| stadium.
|
| It was only a couple of pounds or so. I haven't been to these
| parts of town for years so I have no idea if this practice
| still goes on.
| leesalminen wrote:
| There's a popular swimming around here that's near a rough
| neighborhood. One elderly gentleman from that neighborhood
| guards the cars at the swimming hole. He even got himself a
| shirt that says "security". You pay $2 and he makes sure
| nobody busts the windows out of your car.
| djbusby wrote:
| I'm aware, and have used, this practice in Oakland, CA, Los
| Angeles, SF, Boston, Philadelphia, Seattle and Portland OR.
| One reason I keep a small amount of cash around - just for
| the vig.
| konschubert wrote:
| It's extortion. You're paying protection money.
| djbusby wrote:
| Yep, and my stuff was protected. Been doing it since at
| least 1995.
| canadianfella wrote:
| [dead]
| slashdev wrote:
| This is common all over the developing world. I always give
| them a little something, despite the feel of extortion it
| has to it. It's marginally better than begging, and they
| will really watch the car, and often help with parking and
| leaving. Fair enough.
| [deleted]
| salad-tycoon wrote:
| In the one of the Third world countries I lived in, the
| more attentive ones would also put a piece of cardboard
| on your windshield. A nice touch.
|
| Not so much the guys that insist on spraying your
| windshield with soap at every traffic light.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I'm from a developing country with humongous corruption. I
| now live in Canada and love it. But to certain degree
| corruption is just less visible. For example, apparently
| majority of our towing industry in Toronto is just organized
| crime. With murders and arson and everything - in the
| seemingly simple and innocuous _towing_ industry. And when
| opening a restaurant in downtown, near one of the stadiums,
| protection money is just normal line item.
|
| https://www.thedrive.com/news/44749/inside-the-tow-truck-
| maf...
| xg15 wrote:
| That goes beyond fraud though. That sounds more like a
| protection racket.
| 13of40 wrote:
| What it's ripe for is for someone to put up a box that accepts
| cash and credit cards then works as a proxy to one of the other
| services.
| idle_zealot wrote:
| Of course! The solution to this state of affairs is to add
| yet another middleman.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Already a thing.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDLw1XDMJkk
|
| https://ktla.com/morning-news/technology/scammers-use-fake-p...
| sixstringtheory wrote:
| > This is one of those things that tech really didn't "fix"
|
| It solved a very real problem of surveillance/advertising and
| skimming a little cream off the top in the process
| apricot wrote:
| I don't have a cell phone. What should I have done in this
| situation?
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| GaggiX wrote:
| Without a cell phone I would be more concerned about other
| things than the parking lot, such as how people contact you
| when you are out?
| klyrs wrote:
| 1. Why do I want people to contact me while I'm out? It's
| almost always spam, and assuming it's not, it's almost always
| a them problem.
|
| 2. If I did want people to contact me, a flip phone would
| work fine for that.
|
| Without a smart phone with a data plan, it is becoming harder
| and harder to navigate the world made for advertizers and
| cellular providers. And these parking companies don't want to
| make it _easy_ for you to pay for parking. They 'd _much_
| rather you have a frustrating experience, take the risk of
| not paying and getting impounded.
| GaggiX wrote:
| >Why do I want people to contact me while I'm out?
|
| I mean I would think you have a family and just to organize
| something you would need to communicate, even when you're
| outside.
|
| >a flip phone would work fine for that.
|
| Yes flip phones are indeed cell phones.
| clipsy wrote:
| > I mean I would think you have a family and just to
| organize something you would need to communicate, even
| when you're outside.
|
| This seems to come as a shock to much of the HN crowd,
| but people did in fact manage to organize things before
| cell phones existed.
| klyrs wrote:
| People even made plans to meet at a specific time and
| place before _phones_ were invented. When they left their
| houses, nobody was able to deliver a letter to them. I 'd
| say it went fine, but honestly, they're all dead now.
| GaggiX wrote:
| There was even a time when people used to get around
| without driving, and so they didn't have to worry about
| finding a parking space.
| WirelessGigabit wrote:
| They can send an email. Or call me when I'm at home. If
| I'm not home I'm away.
|
| Why is that so hard for people to grasp?
| teddyh wrote:
| <http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/incremental-progress>
| saulpw wrote:
| I have a flipphone. People can contact me if they need to
| (they never do). I can't use a QR code or app or whatever.
| How do I pay for parking?
| GaggiX wrote:
| Well it's clearly nonsense that some parking lots required
| having a smartphone with some data available in the data
| plan.
|
| Still I was just wondering about the author of the parent
| post that reported that he didn't have a cell phone.
| cfeduke wrote:
| You don't, but you are also statistically unlikely to spend
| money (or, perhaps spend very little) at where ever you're
| trying to park so everyone concerned would prefer you move
| along to make room for a paying customer please. :)
| saulpw wrote:
| I guess if you s/park/live then this is why everyone
| concerned would rather poor people just get on with it
| and die already. I mean if you're not going to spend
| money then please move along and make room for a paying
| customer.
| pvaldes wrote:
| Enjoy the fact that you still keep control over your life
| ta8645 wrote:
| Same as if you want to sign up for OpenAI. You can't, so go
| somewhere else.
| [deleted]
| lucidguppy wrote:
| I was at Dick's sporting goods and the cleats section was this
| special "app" area where you could either enter in your search
| criteria or scan shoes so associates would approach you with the
| shoes in hand.
|
| The app was slow as f - and only really worked if you brought up
| and scanned the shoes.
|
| Was there any instruction? No - you had to figure it out
| yourself. To be honest if felt like you were playing myst.
|
| Why was this done? IDK - to stop shoplifting?
|
| Why was the old way so bad that you had to add all this crap.
| They're goddamn shoes - put them in boxes and let people try them
| on like we've been doing for 40 years. Creating an app is not
| going to improve the experience 10x.
|
| If it's not going to improve the experience 10x - why are you
| doing this? WTF?
|
| These are the instances where I understand a Steve Jobs type
| blowing their lid.
| deathanatos wrote:
| ... I was also recently at Dick's, and witnesses this same
| stupidity. Am I supposed to ... what, have the attendant haul
| out pair after pair while I attempt to determine what my size
| in this brand+model is, or if, like so many shoe stores, they
| even _carry_ my size? Let alone whether I like the look.
|
| ... the best shoe store I even went to, hands down, just had
| all the boxes laid out in stacks upon stack on the floor, where
| you could go through them.
|
| ... stores should be destroying online purchasing in this
| category by allowing me to try the damn thing on. If I can't
| ... might as well order online? It's just as much of a gamble.
| (And sometimes, Amazon retailers provide a size chart with a
| conversion to mm. Although sometimes they also provide multiple
| size charts with conflicting information, too.)
|
| (Also, a.) America, can we start measuring shoes in some actual
| _unit_ , like mm or cm? ... that there's a kids system, and
| women's is just inane. b.) Shoe companies would do well to have
| a standard sizing. You'd _think_ that would be a thing. And
| yet, as someone with an odd foot, I can tell you that for some
| companies, it is, and for some, it isn 't. I bought Nike for a
| while, since it was, and I knew any shoe in my size would fit
| comfortably. It was a magical few years ... until Nike changed
| something. _Why?_ )
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-08-19 23:01 UTC)