[HN Gopher] British Columbia declares a state of emergency amid ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       British Columbia declares a state of emergency amid devastating
       wildfires
        
       Author : abhayhegde
       Score  : 88 points
       Date   : 2023-08-19 17:02 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonpost.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonpost.com)
        
       | grecy wrote:
       | The capital city of the Northwest Territories, Yellowknife, is
       | also under a full evacuation order.
       | 
       | That is 62 degrees from the equator, 20,000 people.
       | 
       | Air quality in much of Western Canada is horrific.
        
       | reilly3000 wrote:
       | I was in Nelson BC for the past couple of days. AQI was in the
       | 200's most of the time, the red was shining a reddish hue.
       | Kelowna is in great danger and US side was worse, with the city
       | of Medical Lake having been completely destroyed today. The
       | interstate is closed and lots of ranch animals had to be let
       | loose and are wandering about.
        
       | xrd wrote:
       | I was born almost fifty years ago in Oregon. Growing up I never
       | remember another event like the fires of 2020. Is this just me
       | misremembering? Is there something fundamentally different about
       | the smoke now compared to then? Was it all heightened three years
       | ago because of social media and wouldn't have been as impactful
       | in the newspaper era? Do any other Pacific Northwest natives
       | recall smoke like there is lately? I'm reading a lot of the
       | comments and believe that this isn't the worst of the last forty
       | years but my memory tells me differently and I'm wondering how I
       | could be so off.
        
         | elihu wrote:
         | I don't think we've had anything like the 2020 fires in a long
         | time (though the 2017 Gorge fire was pretty bad). Maybe the
         | Tillamook burn was comparable?
         | 
         | Field burning used to be a more common thing though, so it was
         | a regular annual occurrence that you'd have a lot of smoke in
         | the air during field burning season.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | I've lived in Seattle for 25-30 years, and I think prior to the
         | last ~5 years, the smoke from wildfires making it to the city
         | was a much more rare event. Maybe once every few years, rather
         | than every year. And it didn't last nearly as long, nor was
         | there as much smoke.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | Native of 30+ years. The last ~5 years are absolutely an
         | anomaly.
         | 
         | They've always been present, yes, especially towards the
         | eastern side of the Cascades, but the past few years have felt
         | like a different beast.
        
       | soupbowl wrote:
       | I am in between a few of the fires in southern bc. My friends are
       | mostly evacuated with a few on alert. Yesterday was scary because
       | of high winds, houses have been lost. Today the air quality is
       | terrible, my deck furniture was covered in ash this morning.
       | 
       | Fire here has always been common, the most common pine tree
       | requires fire to open it's pine cones. Fires starting here always
       | sparks climate change battles. The reality is that there has and
       | will always be fire here.
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | Decades of crappy fuel management and cancelling their rapid
       | attack helicopter crews didn't help.
        
         | jml7c5 wrote:
         | I believe it was Alberta that ended rapattack, not BC.
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | They both did.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | soupbowl wrote:
         | I am a logger that actually did fuel management in these
         | specific areas, it is a very important thing that politics has
         | made a mess of. That being said it has nothing to do with what
         | is happening here right now.
         | 
         | Some of the places burning are places fuel management has been
         | done and some of these places already burned up a few times
         | over the last 10 years.
         | 
         | Also helicopters are not our problem heavy winds was grounding
         | them anyways.
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | Appreciate your comment. At the moment wind is wreaking havoc
           | but these fires were small for several days before they grew
           | this large. A quick reaction would have saved so much effort
           | and expense and grief.
        
           | voisin wrote:
           | What do you think of the Stop the Spray BC movement? Sounds
           | like they've been using herbicides to kill broadleaf trees
           | which are important for fire breaks.
        
       | cf100clunk wrote:
       | Earlier comments contain some good links to current situational
       | info, so I'm tossing these online wildfire map links into the
       | mix:
       | 
       | Canada:
       | 
       | BC Wildfire Service's Wildfire Map:
       | https://wildfiresituation.nrs.gov.bc.ca/map
       | 
       | BC Air Quality Health Index:
       | https://www.env.gov.bc.ca/epd/bcairquality/readings/find-sta...
       | 
       | NWT Live Fire Map:
       | https://www.gov.nt.ca/ecc/en/services/wildland-fire-update/n...
       | 
       | Alberta Wildfire Map:
       | https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/3ffcc2d0ef3e4e0999b0c...
       | 
       | USA:
       | 
       | WA & OR Fire Map: https://gacc.nifc.gov/nwcc/firemap.php
       | 
       | ID Fire Map: https://idfg.idaho.gov/ifwis/maps/realtime/fire/
        
       | matrix_overload wrote:
       | For anyone getting an emotional response and willing to blame
       | climate change deniers, here's some dry government statistics on
       | Canadian forest fires [0].
       | 
       | The number of fires over the past 4 decades is trending down. The
       | numbers for area burned looks like each time there's a peak, it
       | burns out enough fuel to make subsequent years easier. There were
       | a couple of peaks in 1980s/1990s, but nothing that big recently.
       | 
       | Also, notably, the area burnt is lowest during recession years
       | and COVID lockdown year. So when people could not afford to go
       | camping/ATVing, the amount of fires was drastically less. Climate
       | change probably does play some role here, but so does the 20%
       | population increase in BC over the last 2 decades.
       | 
       | So, the correct question to ask is "what can we do as a
       | reasonable trade-off to reduce the number of fires in the future
       | without compromising the quality of life?". And the correct
       | answer is "educate people on how to spot hazardous terrain and
       | contain the fires they accidentally started". Requiring fire
       | extinguishers at campsites/ATVs could help. Doing some training
       | would help. Doing controlled burns would help. Renaming
       | Environment Canada to "Environment and Climate Change Canada| and
       | closing down local production in favor of Chinese imports won't.
       | 
       | [0] https://cwfis.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/ha/nfdb
        
         | deanCommie wrote:
         | Counterpoint: "The 2023 wildfire season is now B.C.'s most
         | destructive on record -- and it's only mid-July"
         | 
         | The four worst forest fire seasons in BC since 1950 by square
         | kilometers burnt are 2023, 2018, 2017, and 2021 in that order.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-
         | wildfire-...
        
         | bparsons wrote:
         | The entire province is on fire. It has barely rained in the
         | southern half of the province since April. It is climate
         | change.
        
           | matrix_overload wrote:
           | Which is fairly consistent with other El Nino years [0]
           | 
           | [0] https://vancouver.weatherstats.ca/charts/precipitation-
           | month...
        
           | goatlover wrote:
           | You know this is the same sort of fallacious reasoning the
           | deniers make when they say it's been usually cold and snowy
           | in their part of the world? You need to show there's a link
           | between the lack of rain and the province being on fire. Is
           | there historical precedence for these kinds of dry periods
           | and fires?
        
             | gravitronic wrote:
             | There is simple physics: warmer air holds more moisture,
             | pulling it from the ground and holding it longer. Explains
             | drier conditions and more extreme rainfalls when they do
             | occur
        
           | swader999 wrote:
           | Climate change is supposed to bring more rainfall though.
        
             | steve_adams_86 wrote:
             | A couple years ago we had a major flood event which still
             | hasn't been fully recovered from, so... Maybe that
             | qualifies as more rainfall.
        
         | yongjik wrote:
         | The graph shown in the link ends at 2021, with was apparently a
         | somewhat bad year but not horrible, with 4 million hectares
         | burned. Clearly, there were worse years in the past, like 1989
         | or 1995, when more then 7 million hectares were burned.
         | 
         | Since 1996 no year had more than 5M hectares burned, and the
         | graph (if you squint enough) does look like it's slightly
         | trending down.
         | 
         | Except, enter 2023 [1]:
         | 
         | > As of August 17, 5,765 fires had burned 13,749,167 hectares
         | (33,974,932 acres), about four percent of the entire forest
         | area of Canada and more than five times the long-term average
         | of 2.38 million ha (5.9 million acres) for that time of the
         | year.
         | 
         | Want to see what an updated graph looks like? Found one here
         | [2] - scroll down to the bottom.
         | 
         | It seems misleading to cite a graph ending at 2021 when we're
         | seeing the graph shooting off the chart right in front of us.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Canadian_wildfires
         | 
         | [2] https://ciffc.net/statistics
        
           | matrix_overload wrote:
           | 2023 is a first El Nino year after a long streak of La Nina
           | years [0]. Which means, drier-than-usual summer after
           | multiple wetter-than-usual summers. If we assume that wetter
           | years accumulate the fuel, and drier years burn it, it would
           | explain a single peak in 2023 followed by lower-than-average
           | years later.
           | 
           | [0] https://ggweather.com/enso/oni.htm
        
             | yongjik wrote:
             | Except that the very graph in your link shows 2023 as an
             | unremarkable year. "El Nino after a few years of La Nina"
             | practically happens every decade or so. Similar thing
             | happened in 2002 and 2009: 2002 was an average fire year
             | and 2009 was close to minimal fire.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | Too soon for El Nino to be a factor.
        
         | libraryatnight wrote:
         | [flagged]
        
           | ggdG wrote:
           | > I don't understand your goal. Why are you doing this sort
           | of comment? Taking the time to dull peoples minds against
           | whats happening to the world?
           | 
           | > Is it for yourself? Are you scared and it makes you feel
           | better to try and control other peoples' perceptions and
           | reactions? Do you believe you're doing a service and creating
           | a nuanced worldview that helps people make better decisions?
           | You're not. I don't understand you.
           | 
           | > Are you in a position that this com ment is useful? Is this
           | a place where it is useful? If it's not, is the purpose of
           | the article to solicit the sort of response you've provided?
           | 
           | > You are going to die asking stupid questions in meetings.
           | 
           | "Of all the offspring of Time, Error is the most ancient, and
           | is so old and familiar an acquaintance, that Truth, when
           | discovered, comes upon most of us like an intruder, and meets
           | the intruder's welcome."
           | 
           | -- Charles Mackay
           | 
           | https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/227837-of-all-the-
           | offspring...
        
           | matrix_overload wrote:
           | On the contrary, to be critical of what the media tells them,
           | quantify problems, rank solutions and check for conflicts of
           | interest.
           | 
           | This won't work though. The critical thinking in the U.S.
           | culture has been replaced by obedience, and we are back to
           | hunting heretics in the name of holy symbols. It's a stable
           | societal structure - look a poor Muslim countries, for
           | example. They are busy blaming infidels for all their
           | misfortunes, and will never attribute their poverty to the
           | power structures on top of them. Threads like this, though,
           | are good for gauging the speed of the societal decline and
           | deciding when to emigrate forward.
           | 
           | If you yourself haven't lived in a country where "greater
           | good" was used to swiftly destroy the then-emerging middle
           | class, you won't recognize the patterns, so you can ignore
           | the whole thing.
        
             | voisin wrote:
             | It is worth considering the cost benefit of this
             | criticality. What is gained by not trying to lessen human
             | impact on our environment?
        
           | alehlopeh wrote:
           | A majority of the comments people leave on this site only
           | make sense in the context of a room full of people in
           | actionable positions. And of course no such room exists.
           | 
           | People love to act as though they were woken up at 4am by
           | their chief of staff, and they've just been led to the war
           | room where their invaluable expertise is needed, stat, for
           | the good of humanity.
           | 
           | "Simple. We just need to change the behavior of every single
           | person on the planet." they say with a tinge of annoyance.
           | "Are we done here?"
        
         | neltnerb wrote:
         | > So, the correct question to ask is "what can we do as a
         | reasonable trade-off to reduce the number of fires in the
         | future without compromising the quality of life?". And the
         | correct answer is "educate people on how to spot hazardous
         | terrain and contain the fires they accidentally started".
         | Requiring fire extinguishers at campsites/ATVs could help.
         | Doing some training would help. Doing controlled burns would
         | help. Renaming Environment Canada to "Environment and Climate
         | Change Canada| and closing down local production in favor of
         | Chinese imports won't.
         | 
         | This is such a wild false dichotomy.
         | 
         | Unless you're saying climate change has nothing to do with it,
         | or is making fires better, it's a strange thing to play devil's
         | advocate about -- especially pre-emptively.
         | 
         | I accept the scientific consensus that climate change is making
         | a lot of these natural disasters worse/different and more
         | frequent, so addressing climate change _and_ teaching people
         | how to survive novel natural disasters are both important on
         | different time scales.
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | What about telling children they are doomed? Wont that help?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Fricken wrote:
           | I don't understand why telling children they are doomed is
           | regarded as worse than actually dooming them.
        
             | throwawaysleep wrote:
             | One is far in the future and they won't be around to hear
             | them anymore.
        
             | goatlover wrote:
             | It's worse when you're not actually dooming them, but you
             | are discouraging them.
        
         | freeslave wrote:
         | "There are complex reasons for our dire wildfires, but
         | scientists say climate change plays key role" [0]
         | 
         | "Our forest management practices, they've been like this since
         | about the '80s. So why is it we're seeing the bad fire seasons
         | now? It's because the weather has gotten more extreme."
         | 
         | [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wildfire-
         | fac...
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | Here is a gif of all of the years in sequence. If you look at
         | https://firesmoke.ca, or https://smokebuddy.app, you can see
         | the fire perimeter polygons for 2023 so far. I'm not sure about
         | perimeters for 2022, but I think there was less burned than
         | this year and 2021.
         | 
         | https://static.steve-adams.me/canada-fire-polys-1980-2021.gi...
        
         | nvy wrote:
         | >closing down local production in favor of Chinese imports
         | 
         | This is Canada you're talking about. We have no idea how to do
         | anything but destroy our own economy by offshoring.
        
         | graeme wrote:
         | Hmm. Do you have any more info about 2020? This is an
         | interesting theory. I note a few things though
         | 
         | 1. The number of fires is trending down, but
         | 
         | 2. The area burned is trending up
         | 
         | 3. The number of fires in 2020 wasn't noticeably different.
         | Down but on trend. But area burned was very low
         | 
         | Idly I wonder if some of the worst fires are started by humans
         | through carelessness or on purpose, and this number of fires
         | was down in 2020? Could also be a coincidence. Some years in
         | the past had a very low area burned with a normal number of
         | fires.
        
           | matrix_overload wrote:
           | >Hmm. Do you have any more info about 2020?
           | 
           | Provincial parks were outright closed for some time. And
           | people in general were too spooked to go grilling on a forest
           | campsite with the entire extended family.
        
         | dwroberts wrote:
         | > The number of fires over the past 4 decades is trending down.
         | The numbers for area burned looks like each time there's a
         | peak, it burns out enough fuel to make subsequent years easier.
         | There were a couple of peaks in 1980s/1990s, but nothing that
         | big recently.
         | 
         | I think this is a misleading interpretation of two (pretty
         | vague) statistics.
         | 
         | How have the mitigation strategies for fire changed over the
         | last 30 years? The area burnt may not increase but the fires
         | may be more fierce/more difficult to control, and the lack of
         | change in these stats may be because of control techniques
         | being different. The same can apply for the amount of
         | preparatory work being done (/money spent) _before_ fire
         | season.
        
       | Ylpertnodi wrote:
       | Anyone got an update on how facebook is doing in BC?
        
         | soupbowl wrote:
         | Local news sites are blocked on Facebook but it didn't really
         | matter, people used Facebook groups to pass better Info around.
        
       | matteoraso wrote:
       | _Scientists start to discover that the Earth is warming_ "Maybe
       | they're wrong."
       | 
       |  _Scientists develop sophisticated models that show the dangers
       | of global warming_ "We'll deal with it before it becomes a
       | problem."
       | 
       |  _The catastrophic consequences are now being felt on a regular
       | basis_ "Okay, it's definitely time for gradual, market-based
       | solutions to global warming."
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | JimtheCoder wrote:
         | To be fair, blaming these wildfires on global warming when
         | proper forest management techniques aren't being used and
         | resources are being cut sort of contributes to this
         | phenomenon...doesn't it?
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | Orchards and the like need to be managed. Forests shouldn't
           | really. It's a mistake to think the entire planet needs to be
           | treated like a private garden/agricultural resource. While
           | forest management can help by reducing the amount of bush
           | etc., it can't mitigate the large scale effect of vegetation
           | simply _drying out_. This  'forest management' concept
           | doesn't include watering the trees, after all.
           | 
           | I'm a little sour on this term because it acts (consciously
           | or unconsciously) to deflect from the actual problem of
           | large-scale desiccation. Every time I hear it makes me think
           | of someone saying 'Mars never has forest fires, because the
           | vegetation has been cleared properly.'
        
             | pfannkuchen wrote:
             | > Forests shouldn't really
             | 
             | Forests naturally burn. In California (at least) trees have
             | features specifically evolved to fit into an environment
             | with periodic natural fires. There are written reports of
             | fires in North America going back many hundreds of years,
             | and I believe the natives experienced fires before that as
             | well, as evidenced by cultural practices and oral history.
             | 
             | So you can either not manage the forests and avoid building
             | into areas that would be affected by natural fires, or you
             | can build into those areas but you do need to manage the
             | forests.
             | 
             | Where do you get the idea that forests don't need to be
             | managed if we are to live in and around them? It seems like
             | magical thinking to me.
             | 
             | Note that this is orthogonal to the effect a warming earth
             | has on severity. Qualitatively, you needed to manage
             | forests in North America 1,000 years ago, and you still
             | need to manage them today.
        
           | teunispeters wrote:
           | A large portion of BC is completely inaccessible by any means
           | - which doesn't help. Lots of huge mountain ranges! But the
           | problem turns out to be climate change, oil usage and the BC
           | Conservatives deciding that the pine beetle could be stopped
           | by normal winters (after "normal" winters were already fading
           | ... but this is hindsight ...). Ok they were called the "BC
           | liberal party" but they were a hard-right conservative party
           | and still are ... but I'm not sure if the large-scale pine
           | beetle caused dead forests are still a factor... my last trip
           | through one of the areas currently on fire (a couple of weeks
           | ago) - I didn't see the characteristic red/dead pine trees
           | that time and while I'm just an inhabitant, I was looking.
           | (Banff through Kelowna area to Vancouver, as my usual
           | Kamloops route was already being evacuated in parts then).
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | "things people got away with before" are now no longer
           | optional.. as if the extra-safety cushions have been used up
           | and are gone.. seems very predictable, and not either-or at
           | all..
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | There is aloooot of forest in Canada. You can properly manage
           | some of it near populated places, but it is simply infeasible
           | to directly or indirectly manage even most of it.
        
             | tadfisher wrote:
             | The Cascades didn't always consist of endless acres of
             | Douglas Fir and sword ferns. As the glaciers receded, the
             | indigenous tribes and the natural fire ecology maintained
             | oak savanna where there is now dense forest and fuel
             | buildup. I agree with your point, but just wanted to point
             | out that the land was manageable before we allowed most of
             | it to turn into forest.
        
           | beej71 wrote:
           | This is fair, where there are historically poorly managed
           | forests. But a lot of socal that burns isn't forest at all,
           | for example. Same in Eastern Oregon. Or Santa Rosa.
        
         | pensatoio wrote:
         | less "global warming" more "poor forest management"
        
         | seanmcdirmid wrote:
         | Huh? It's more like:
         | 
         |  _The catastrophic consequences are now being felt on a regular
         | basis_ "Okay, it's definitely happening, but it's too late to
         | do anything about it, so let's just live it up until
         | extinction."
        
           | jl6 wrote:
           | This is why climate doomers are harmful. _Of course_ apathy
           | is the response to being told there's no hope.
        
             | smolder wrote:
             | Apathy was the starting condition, not a result of people
             | fretting about climate change.
        
           | notatoad wrote:
           | >The catastrophic consequences are now being felt on a
           | regular basis "Okay, it's definitely happening"
           | 
           | seems like there's still plenty of denial to go around
        
             | channel_t wrote:
             | From my own anecdotal observations, it sure seems like that
             | the worse it gets the more mainstream denialism becomes.
             | I'm also seeing a rise of cartoonishly absurd conspiracy
             | theories that look loosely something like: "the commie
             | democrats are using secret weather machines to push their
             | radical agenda!" Not sure how we're supposed to fix any of
             | this in our lifetimes when reality itself is so easily
             | trampled by culture war nonsense.
        
           | matteoraso wrote:
           | I hate that you're right.
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | Does anyone not see that everything gets blamed on climate
         | change wholesale?
        
           | VancouverMan wrote:
           | There's more to it than just that.
           | 
           | For example, the Canadian politicians who focus the most on
           | that subject, and who impose onerous "carbon taxes" on
           | everyone, spend a lot of time in planes flying all over the
           | country, and even overseas. Most of this travel is
           | unnecessary and pointless.
           | 
           | When those politicians are on the ground, we can see them
           | riding in rather sizable motorcades involving armoured SUVs
           | and other larger vehicles.
           | 
           | More absurdly, though, is that these same politicians have
           | simultaneously pushed immigration into Canada to extreme
           | levels, flying huge numbers of people in from literally the
           | opposite side of the globe.
           | 
           | Having more people in the country obviously means more need
           | for housing (which in turn requires land), electricity,
           | heating/cooling, roads, vehicles, food, and other resources.
           | Producing and operating those, in turn, require more of the
           | emissions that are deemed unacceptable.
           | 
           | It's all very hypocritical and contradictory.
        
             | systemvoltage wrote:
             | I don't see that as a problem. The problem is brainwashing
             | (mostly well meaning progressives) into doom culture, it's
             | an easy way to justify extremely totalitarianism.
             | 
             | We already went through that in the 70's with nuclear
             | power. Humanity would be far better off if it weren't for
             | 70's progressives and their anti-nuclear agenda. It's the
             | same but worse this time: welcome our new climate tyrants.
             | 
             | Climate change is a cult with religious qualities. I
             | haven't seen anyone rebutting that.
             | 
             | I don't give a shit if people use private jets for whatever
             | reason.
        
               | hhw wrote:
               | Maybe it has to do with the US having double the per
               | capita carbon footprint, and double the cumulative total
               | amount of CO2 of China, and many multiples of India:
               | 
               | https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions
               | -pe...
               | 
               | https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-which-countries-are-
               | his....
        
               | goatlover wrote:
               | The climate doesn't care about per capita, also nuclear
               | power could have been used to reduce carbon footprint.
        
               | hhw wrote:
               | There's far more room for improvement when per capita is
               | high than there is when per capita is low.
               | 
               | And the climate certainly does care about cumulative CO2.
               | 
               | Would have, could have, should have. But didn't. Trying
               | to hold others accountable without getting one's own
               | house in order just comes off as the blatant hypocrisy it
               | actually is. Until we do better ourselves, we are in no
               | position to call others out.
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | > For example, the Canadian politicians who focus the most
             | on that subject, and who impose onerous "carbon taxes" on
             | everyone, spend a lot of time in planes flying all over the
             | country, and even overseas. Most of this travel is
             | unnecessary and pointless.
             | 
             | Do you have data indicating that the politicians who
             | _don't_ focus on the subject are more modest with their
             | travel?
        
               | JimtheCoder wrote:
               | "Do you have data indicating that the politicians who
               | don't focus on the subject are more modest with their
               | travel?"
               | 
               | Why would they be if they don't care as much...?
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | But it's being asserted that both sides don't genuinely
               | care; that they care equally as much.
        
               | KennyBlanken wrote:
               | https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-
               | investigations/cre...
               | 
               | > Last fiscal year, the Trump family took more trips that
               | required Secret Service protection than the Obama family
               | took in seven, according to a budget document released by
               | the Treasury Department. On average, Obama's family took
               | 133.3 protected trips per year, while the Trump family
               | has taken an average of 1,625 annually.
               | 
               | There's one (non-Canadian) datapoint.
               | 
               | Before anyone shouts "but Trump's family is bigger!":
               | read the link.
        
               | iFire wrote:
               | Good scientific observation.
               | 
               | To make a comparison that Canadian politicians who impose
               | taxes jet travel more are harming the environment more,
               | we need a comparison between controlled variable and the
               | tested variable like the amount of jet travel Canadian
               | politicians who don't impose taxes do.
        
               | ta8645 wrote:
               | The point is, if they honestly believed in climate
               | change, their actions would reflect a state of emergency.
               | Instead, they act as if nothing is wrong, except when it
               | comes time to impose limits on others, and then they
               | remember it's all justified by the need to save the
               | planet. So comparing to other politicians is pointless,
               | it's their actions in relation to their policies that is
               | at issue, not how it compares to other politicians.
        
             | jl6 wrote:
             | Remember that being a hypocrite doesn't make someone's
             | arguments incorrect.
        
         | LudwigNagasena wrote:
         | > _Scientists develop sophisticated models that show the
         | dangers of global warming_
         | 
         |  _Scientists treat their jobs as sinecure, benefit from
         | unpublished data and closed-source code while receiving public
         | funding_
         | 
         | Nothing to see here, people, get that Believe Science t-shirt
         | and move on.
         | 
         | > _The catastrophic consequences are now being felt on a
         | regular basis_ "Okay, it's definitely time for gradual, market-
         | based solutions to global warming."
         | 
         | I guess you disagree with economists who won the most
         | prestigious award in their field and who also build
         | sophisticated models? Pick your own dismal science to root for!
         | Being a science believer have never been so exciting, now you
         | can treat it like football or politics!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mcpackieh wrote:
       | https://fire.airnow.gov/
       | 
       | So far, air quality in the PNW isn't too bad, this is barely
       | notable compared to past years. Hopefully it stays this way.
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | Yeah, so far it's been good this year in the Portland area...
         | but there's still another month+ of fire season to go. IIRC the
         | 2020 fires flared up in September and we had terrible air
         | quality for at least a week.
        
           | channel_t wrote:
           | Yup, and 2020 was downright apocalyptic, with AQI readings so
           | hazardous they basically went off the charts. Also worth
           | noting that last year the bad air quality in Portland didn't
           | really start until October and stopped during the final days
           | of it, so we can reasonably expect a solid 2 months left of
           | smoke season still.
        
         | beej71 wrote:
         | It's not the worst ever in central Oregon, but it's between bad
         | and really bad. Today's an improvement from yesterday, when I
         | drove 45 minutes north to walk the dog someplace with an AQI
         | under 200.
        
         | DeRock wrote:
         | About half of Washington has an AQI over 300. The coast is
         | mostly clear, but it will depend on how the wind trends. These
         | latest south central BC fires only really grew in the last 48
         | hours too.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | Seattle has an AQI of 109 ATM, much if Washington lives in
           | that region. Spokane in contrast is at 289 ATM. If forests
           | are burning primarily in Eastern BC, the mountains couod save
           | us.
        
             | brightsize wrote:
             | I'm in Spokane, and on the PurpleAir website there are
             | readings >500 all around, even in the city, which is not
             | (yet) burning. The air outside is subjectively awful, the
             | worst I can recall in 20 years living here. I'll be holing-
             | up today with fans/filters running, not that it will do
             | much good.
             | 
             | What's burning, at least nearby, is not forests AFAIK, it's
             | grasslands.
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | I don't know what source you're looking at but I'm seeing
             | AQI in the 30s for Seattle right now, and ~300 east of the
             | cascades. The wind is blowing out of the east and Seattle's
             | air will get a lot worse this evening, but it isn't 110
             | yet.
        
           | soultrees wrote:
           | Sun is looking pretty orange today in Vancouver.
        
             | singingboyo wrote:
             | You can see the sun? All I see is grey smoke slowly
             | settling down on us.
             | 
             | It's going to suck for a couple days, I think.
        
         | pchristensen wrote:
         | https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2023/08/smoke-and-tropical-st...
         | 
         | Heads up.
        
       | brightsize wrote:
       | Sock it to us, BC.
       | 
       | "OKANOGAN COUNTY, Wash. -- The Crater Creek fire, that has burned
       | an estimated 54,000 acres in British Columbia, has entered into
       | Okanogan County." https://inx.lv/mi5t
        
       | [deleted]
        
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