[HN Gopher] NC files charges against Nissan dealership employees
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       NC files charges against Nissan dealership employees
        
       Author : ourmandave
       Score  : 28 points
       Date   : 2023-08-19 16:59 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jalopnik.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jalopnik.com)
        
       | munchler wrote:
       | The legal charges don't seem to match the quotes from customers,
       | so it's a bit difficult to tell what's actually going on here.
        
       | justin66 wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | ourmandave wrote:
       | Maybe if some of these clowns saw prison time for fraud instead
       | of just slapping the dealer with a fine and then it's back to
       | business as usual.
       | 
       | See also: To Big to Fail Banks.
        
       | no_wizard wrote:
       | It's just a shame that dealership grift has to get this bad until
       | the government enforces regulations properly.
       | 
       | I know on a smaller scaler that these things mentioned in the
       | article happen all the time. In college I had classmates who
       | worked at a dealership and they talked about all kinds of
       | shenanigans they pulled.
       | 
       | For instance, it wasn't all that uncommon for a relative
       | percentage of the cars sold on the used lot to be from other
       | states like Texas where they would buy low integrity vehicles and
       | fix them to a minimally viable state before bringing them to
       | California. This had something to do with how they could get a
       | certificate from TX saying the car was okay for resale without
       | conditions applied (IE they didn't have to report the previous /
       | original condition) and that was enough leeway to get it past
       | state regulators if you didn't do it _to often_
       | 
       | new cars had a bit less of this nonsense going on I recall
       | because the manufacturers are more concerned and keep a closer
       | eye on this sort of thing, though I've heard that often cars
       | would come in from the factory with paint scratches and stuff
       | from travel and dealers would just patch over it as quickly and
       | cheaply as possible to get it on the lot without car for
       | longevity
        
         | LapsangGuzzler wrote:
         | > It's just a shame that dealership grift has to get this bad
         | until the government enforces regulations properly.
         | 
         | Enforcement costs money, and one of the easiest ways to attack
         | the government budget is to argue that enforcement "isn't
         | working" because it isn't yielding offenses. A perfect
         | enforcement regime with zero offenders starts look like major
         | government waste.
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | "There's no business like car business I know" :-) In my first
         | startup we hired a guy who had been IT at a large chain of
         | dealerships in the Bay Area and he was chock full of stories
         | like this.
        
       | predictabl3 wrote:
       | _> This isn't the first time that Kazran has run into trouble
       | with the law, either. Back in 2010, the Federal Election
       | Commission filed a complaint against him alleging that he
       | illegally reimbursed employees of his Florida dealership for
       | close to $70,000 in political donations._
       | 
       | I'll give you two guesses, but you're only going to need one! To
       | save you the work, it was for Vic Buchanan's campaign.
        
       | marklubi wrote:
       | Nissan of Shelby. Not to be confused with the Shelby brand of
       | aftermarket vehicles.
        
       | tennisflyi wrote:
       | Overall, it's telling that _you_ have to explicitly walk through
       | the contact.
        
       | FredPret wrote:
       | Tesla's best innovation: buy direct from manufacturer
        
         | wredue wrote:
         | Tesla isn't exactly well known for their treatment of
         | customers.
         | 
         | Actually, having a sole entity controlling all sales makes
         | getting away with this criminal behaviour easier.
         | 
         | There's less to compare to
         | 
         | There's fewer people that need to be hush hush
         | 
         | You have much easier control over who comes in to the circle.
        
           | kwhitefoot wrote:
           | > Tesla isn't exactly well known for their treatment of
           | customers.
           | 
           | That comes after you have bought the vehicle. At least in my
           | case, in Norway, buying the car was painless and at no point
           | did the sales rep attempt to persuade me to buy anything
           | extra or do anything shady.
           | 
           | However, their service organization stinks at some locations
           | in both in Norway and in the UK but oddly for different
           | reasons.
        
           | bandergirl wrote:
           | That makes no sense. Tesla sells at MSRP, what is there to
           | compare?
           | 
           | When you walk into a Tesla dealership you know what price to
           | expect, but that does not happen at other dealerships.
           | 
           | (I don't own a Tesla)
        
           | jliptzin wrote:
           | Can't possibly be worse than what dealerships are already
           | doing.
           | 
           | On the other hand, all it takes is one whistleblower employee
           | at tesla to blow the cover on the entire operation if they're
           | up to no good.
        
         | no_wizard wrote:
         | Every manufacturer would love this. Unfortunately dealerships
         | are enshrined into law and Tesla had to go and get exceptions
         | by law in each state it has dealerships
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | What is stopping the other manufacturers from applying for
           | the same exceptions?
        
             | JimtheCoder wrote:
             | The pre existing dealers.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Do you mean existing dealers lobby against the exception?
               | How would that survive a lawsuit? A state government
               | giving one car manufacturer an exception and denying all
               | the other ones?
        
               | fbdab103 wrote:
               | Car dealerships are a huge revenue generating entity for
               | state governments. It is possible doing away with
               | dealerships would net out to similar incomes, but short
               | term would most likely lead to a net negative for the
               | balance sheet.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Dealership owners are probably one of the most successful
               | "small" local business owners in most places.
               | 
               | Also, a lot of what people dislike about dealerships is
               | at least somewhat orthogonal to the fact that they're
               | dealerships rather than something owned by the
               | manufacturer. Any dealership can institute "no haggle"
               | sales, you're going to have to take your car to a local
               | authorized place for service/warranty work/etc. in any
               | case, and a lot of people need financing.
               | 
               | The last few years of shortages notwithstanding, to the
               | degree you can walk into a dealership, point at a car and
               | say I want that one (or I've come to pickup the car I've
               | ordered), I've got my checkbook--a lot of the hassle
               | disappears. Yes, there will be various annoying upsell
               | attempts but that mostly involves just saying no a bunch
               | of times.
               | 
               | (Yes, there are some incentives that dealerships have
               | that a manufacturer-owned entity might not. On the other
               | hand, the inverse is probably true as well.)
        
               | fieldcny wrote:
               | Car dealers are some of the most powerful local political
               | entities in the country, they donate a lot and they are
               | everywhere
        
               | D-Coder wrote:
               | Apparently it's perfectly legal, if you're not naming
               | specific companies.
        
             | paxys wrote:
             | The moment a company sells one car online they lose support
             | from every one of their dealerships nationwide. It's
             | possible for a manufacturer to embrace this model when they
             | are starting from zero, not so when they have millions in
             | existing sales per year to worry about.
        
             | pakyr wrote:
             | As an example[0]:
             | 
             | > HB 637, "Motor Vehicle Dealers, Manufacturers, Importers,
             | and Distributors," bans most direct-to-consumer vehicle
             | sales if the automaker has ever sold any model through a
             | franchise in Florida before (i.e. every major automaker).
             | Manufacturers that didn't already have a dealership
             | agreement in the state before the law are exempt, which
             | includes Tesla and presumably other new EV brands such as
             | Lucid, Rivian and Polestar.
             | 
             | [0]https://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/politics/2023/06/
             | 16/e...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
       | What's the exact fraud happening here? It's implied in the
       | article but not explicitly spelled out. Salvage vehicles are
       | being rebuilt, and the title is doctored so as to not make it
       | appear like it's a salvage title?
        
       | seattle_spring wrote:
       | Every dealership employee should be in jail. There's 0 practical
       | reason that cars need to be bought through a middleman. Every car
       | buying experience I've had over the last 2 decades has been an
       | absolute grift, except when buying directly from Rivian. Toyota,
       | Kia, Audi, Honda, Ford: they've _all_ tried to scam me.
        
         | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-19 23:02 UTC)