[HN Gopher] Show HN: Aviation navigation log on $20 receipt printer
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Show HN: Aviation navigation log on $20 receipt printer
Author : carloslagoa
Score : 210 points
Date : 2023-08-19 16:57 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (carloslagoa.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (carloslagoa.com)
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Single Engine Land PPL holder here.
|
| I would have loved this when I was flying still. Such memories
| with the kneeboard and nav logs!
|
| Fun fact: I left my plotter and E6B in my black car in TX during
| cross-country training and came back to both melted! I was broke
| and 18 so figured I would wing it, but it surely made my
| calculations error biased by some amount of yards because I was
| broke and not wanting to buy a new one!
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Hahaha, I had a similar thing, I folded my E6B day 1 hour 2 of
| ground school... anything from 130deg to 210deg had a +-5deg
| parallax error
|
| Great story! Glad it coulda been've use :)
| iefbr14 wrote:
| Nice, but I would like to know where you can get those printers
| for just 20 bucks :)
| carloslagoa wrote:
| I actually just bought one from the business next door but on
| eBay I've seen them at $20 (tho if you get the Super Pro XL
| Mega 4K one it's more hehe)
| iefbr14 wrote:
| >I've seen them at $20
|
| Have another look, its more like 50 nowadays, thanks to the
| new ones having proprietary paper with chip.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| damn you may be right (maybe something between 20 and 50 at
| least)
|
| does second hand count? gumtree m/craigslist/facebook
| marketplace/ etc etc
| EMM_386 wrote:
| I'm a dinosaur and I'm always amazed at the technology that
| pilot's have available to them these days.
|
| While complex to learn, having huge glass navigation systems
| sitting in front of you in a single engine plane seems so foreign
| to me.
|
| I did my instrument ride in a C-172 and my commercial in a PA-44.
|
| During _both_ of those checkrides, I ended up having to shoot ILS
| approaches to minimums, in turbulent IFR conditions, with nothing
| but "steam gauges". The fanciest thing in the plane was probably
| the HSI.
|
| On the instrument ride, I had to shoot an NDB approach _to
| minimums_ in actual. That was a good time.
|
| I assume planes don't even come with NDBs anymore. I used to tune
| into AM radio on them just to have something to listen to to pass
| the time.
|
| I used the latest Microsoft Flight Simulator recently and loaded
| up the C-172. It just stared at the screen for a minute,
| realizing I don't know how to use a G1000 so I couldn't fly it. I
| mean, I could start it up and get it off the ground, but for IFR
| navigation? No clue. Lots of buttons and fancy graphics.
|
| The march of progress.
| AndrewKemendo wrote:
| Same! My checkride was in 2001 in a 1979 Cessna 150.
|
| My check pilot was a 5'2" WWII vet that needed a booster seat
| and was notorious for opening his damn door on final approach
| (which he did to me, luckily I was prepared).
| Scoundreller wrote:
| > notorious for opening his damn door on final approach
|
| Isn't that a good strategy for when someone thinks they'll be
| in a crash so it doesn't jam closed? Congrats on passing
| despite that!
| nunodonato wrote:
| I strongly dislike glass cockpits for some reason. Flying VOR
| using steam gauges is the best :D
|
| Edit: I mean in a simulator. When I'm flying IRL, a GPS is
| really handy :')
| aledalgrande wrote:
| Reminds me of my (pretty recent) sailing course :) I went on a
| few short sailing trips after and other people on the boat only
| trained on the boat we were on, which was much fancier than the
| one I first had to deal with. The original one had:
|
| - tiller instead of wheel (my brain could not)
|
| - no bathroom (bucket available)
|
| - no furling foresail (got to change to a storm jib in strong
| winds)
|
| - no auto locking winch
|
| - no auto pilot
|
| - no depth sensor
|
| - no gps/screen
|
| - no fuel gauge
|
| - no clutches (only a couple of jam cleats that didn't work
| really well)
|
| - retractable engine (so we had to lower it/pull it up
| manually, was fun to use it to stabilize the boat a bit when
| winds were strong)
|
| Boat was also a bit smaller 31' vs 34'. I'd still take my
| course on that boat if I had to redo it, it was a deeper
| learning experience.
| bombcar wrote:
| Ignore the fancy stuff, the steam gauges are still there on the
| side.
| svarlamov wrote:
| G1000s are great, but it's disappointing that just about
| everything else has remained basically unchanged on GA aircraft
| for the last 30+ years. I hope that we will see some actual
| innovation in GA engines, airframes, and fuels soon. Fuels
| might be the most promising for the near-term.
| V99 wrote:
| The innovation/future exists, but is not evenly distributed.
| For example Diamond planes [1] have: - The
| same G1000 (NXi) - A composite body - Jet-fuel
| burning engines adapted from recent Mercedes diesels -
| Computer control of that engine through one knob instead of
| managing the throttle/mixture/prop separately like cavemen
| - Crash testing, like impact absorbing seat structure and
| separately enclosed fuel tank modules that are unlikely to
| rupture instead of just filling the wing.
|
| And a new one costs about the same as a new Cessna 172 that's
| been essentially unchanged since the 60's except for the
| G1000 like you said.
|
| But "the same" is a pretty nice house in most of the country
| (~$600k) so everything is hand-built, so costs are high,
| demand is kept low. Commercial students trying to get their
| 1500hrs mostly just need the lowest cost, not the nicest or
| safest.
|
| Another big area of innovation and also lower costs is in
| experimentals and/or light-sport. LSAs should be getting a
| lot more capable soon with MOSAIC [2]
|
| [1]: https://www.diamondaircraft.com/en/private-
| owners/aircraft/d... [2]: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-
| media/all-news/2023/july/25/mo...
| pqdbr wrote:
| Half a year ago I asked around about the price of a DA62
| I'm Brazil and it would be in the range of 1.6M USD (8M
| BRL).
|
| Did the price you quote (600k USD) was for the single
| engine model? If so, how much would a DA62 cost you in the
| US?
| ryandrake wrote:
| Nearly all the innovation in general aviation, particularly
| regarding situational awareness and safety, is happening in
| the Experimental category. Moving maps, synthetic
| vision/terrain alerts, ADS-B in and out, engine monitoring,
| airspeed-aware electronic trim control, fuel injection,
| electronic ignition, FADEC systems... yes, all are available
| on newer certificated planes for $,$$$,$$$, but much more
| affordable and accessible in the Experimental world. And, the
| builder/owner can install and configure everything himself.
| Garmin's latest G3X update includes the ability to use
| rudimentary set/clear logic signals to do if-this-and-that
| type CAS alerts, and configure your gauges to behave
| differently during different phases of flight. All owner-
| configurable.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| I'd have to agree (with the little experience I have). My
| school is the cheapest on the block and we have the oldest
| planes, the other day I sat in another's schools C172 and saw
| the G1000 and.. "damn.. look at all those colours and uh what
| does this button do" was just about all I could say
|
| I think in regards to safety, screens have the upper hand 99%
| of the time however...
|
| a) the 1:1 of screen X to screen Y doesn't exist, I (think) you
| have to pretty much learn the new system
|
| b) there's a certain je ne se quais to instruments
|
| c) the school that has the G1000 needs a G1000 trainer as well
| as an IFR trainer (though I guess that's fine because then you
| have experience in both)
|
| d) too much screens may not be the best - the G600 has
| touchscreens now
| V99 wrote:
| Guessing you meant 6-pack/steam-gauge trainer, since anything
| with a G1000 put in is virtually guaranteed to be IFR-
| capable.
|
| There's no hard requirement to learn one versus the other. If
| you're a new student today and looking to go to one of the
| big-boy airlines you'll probably never need to fly a 6-pack
| if the school you pick has G1000's.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Yup! Sorry, glad you caught on :)
|
| Maybe my point was rubbish, just wanted to highlight that
| the learning curve is --> this is an IFR instrument + how
| it's represented/actioned thru our avionics suite
|
| For sure, something bigboys might be happy to hear you
| covered in your ATP
| tecleandor wrote:
| What's your school, BTW?
|
| I've done a bunch of ULM test flights at LEIR and LEMT, and
| I've always been curious about getting at least an ULM
| license...
| carloslagoa wrote:
| LECU! Mostly PPL & ATPL classes --- unsure about ULM
| loloquwowndueo wrote:
| I probably understood 20% of the pilot slang you used here.
| Digory wrote:
| The G1000 is the Garmin "glass cockpit" system.
|
| https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/6420
| carloslagoa wrote:
| check this out!! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QgyLEE2TA-I&pp
| =ygUYcGlsb3Qgc29...
| EMM_386 wrote:
| Hah, that was great!
|
| It's weird as both a commercial pilot and former ATC, I
| understood absolutely every acronym in the song.
|
| We sure do have a lot of them.
| lobsterthief wrote:
| You should see the number of acronyms in military
| aerospace programs ;)
| _s wrote:
| Honestly - as someone who did their primary and instrument
| using steam gauges, and now mostly flies a Cirrus Perspective+
| system (G1000 with some extra's), you'll get up to speed in
| less than a few hours of digging through the manual and playing
| in the SIM.
|
| After about 10 or so hours, you'll start finding so many small
| things that make life infinitely easier for single-pilot ops
| that it's ridiculous we can do x or y with so little effort.
|
| Running lean of peak, having a TOD, programming in our steps,
| hitting the approach button and just letting the plane fly is
| black magic at times. There's no going back for me at this
| rate, especially when I just want to go places. I've got a
| single-seat Yak for when I truly want to "fly"!
| HappyJoy wrote:
| It's hard to find NDB approaches at all anymore. Did you do IR
| in the US? The FAA from what I've read doesn't even encourage
| an instrument checkride in IMC. That's crazy you did it twice.
| EMM_386 wrote:
| Yes, US in the late 90s.
|
| I went to colllege to become an airline pilot, and I was
| shocked that I ended up having to fly an NDB approach in
| actual conditions to minimums. You just don't see that
| anymore.
|
| And the tolerances on the checkride is that you can only
| deviate from the course by a certain number of degrees.
|
| I vividly remember staring at the ADF with the needle
| swinging wildly left to right as we were tossed around
| thinking "surely I can't get failed for turbulence"?
| HappyJoy wrote:
| Thanks so much for sharing. I wrapped up instrument earlier
| this year entirely in a TAA. Went out with my CFII a few
| times in steam gauge because I felt like I was missing out
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Niiice. I'm looking to start flight training myself for
| ultralight next years and will _definitely_ keep this bookmarked.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Wohooo!! good luck!!
| miki123211 wrote:
| This is one of those posts with tons of images whose alt text is
| just set to the literal string "alt text".
|
| Does anybody know where this phenomenon comes from? This isn't
| the first time I'm seeing this, and I don't know why anybody ever
| thought that it was a good idea.
| moogly wrote:
| The `alt` attribute is technically required for `img` tags, so
| if you run your HTML through a validator, or want to shut up
| IDE/editor warnings, you're going to have to add it. It can be
| an empty string though IIRC.
| rtheunissen wrote:
| Might be a CMS of some kind because I doubt anyone would
| purposefully type out "alt text".
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Sadly just me being dumb :')
| carloslagoa wrote:
| I copy pasted my <img> tags cause I had to 'remake' the blog
| and completely forgot to fill it in, if you are using
| accessibility functionality I am very sorry -- please allow me
| to update it briefly
|
| Have a nice weekend :)
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Hi HN!
|
| Just a small script I wrote a few days ago, but I had 2 or 3
| friends publish some blogs online and I got hella jelly --- so
| here's my submission, so at least I can say I made something and
| post it.
|
| Hopefully you like both planes and tech and very hopefully you
| find this an okay read :)
|
| Any spelling mistakes, bugs, issues, ethics, please do tell me
| about!
|
| Sorry if it looks rushed -- night is coming upon us and I need to
| take the dog out!
|
| Good weekend!
| tux1968 wrote:
| Hi there! Which printer are you using? Can't be a new one at
| that price, surely?
| jfim wrote:
| Not knowing much about aviation, are there concerns if the
| printed list falls off of the pillar?
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Hi! --- fantastic question, so far, mostly due to the gentle
| nature of General Aviation flights and my sellotape skills, I
| haven't had to deal with this.
|
| I did worry at one point, but it's surprisingly sturdy.
|
| If it does fall --- no worries! I have my original
| (kneeboard) copy to go off
|
| Thanks for the question!
| [deleted]
| whartung wrote:
| You should look into a roll chart. It's a small device typically
| mounted to a handlebar of a motorcycle that contains directions.
|
| As you reach each waypoint, you turn a knob and roll the next
| waypoint into the window. It should work just great with your
| receipt printer and your not limited to the length of the A
| pillar in your plane.
| DavidPeiffer wrote:
| I like any excuse to mention the Jones Live Map. Back in the
| day it hooked up to a car odometer and when the arrow pointed
| to a direction, you'd take it.
|
| It works well as long as you never miss a direction, then it
| gets off.
|
| It'd be horrible with the variability in land speed from the
| same engine speed, but maybe that'd be part of the "fun" trying
| it for an airplane.
|
| https://www.sealcoveautomuseum.org/collection-test/jones-liv...
| cameronh90 wrote:
| I've ridden a motorbike for 15 years and this is the first I've
| heard of roll charts!
|
| Prior to phones, I would just scrawl my notes onto a sheet of
| A5 and tape it to the top of the tank. It didn't work well when
| it was raining.
| kotaKat wrote:
| I'm just starting out onto a motorbike and this is a stupidly
| brilliant idea, and I _do_ have a 2.5 " IBM receipt
| printer...
| klinquist wrote:
| It's most common in the dual sport community. I ride dual
| sport rides here on the west coast that still provide roll
| charts as their primary routing.
| tennisflyi wrote:
| Roll charts and the kneeboard are good to know about now!
| carloslagoa wrote:
| I was about to buy a plane with a longer a pillar --- darn it!
| I guess roll chart makes more sense indeed.
|
| I know them from the Rally Dakar, I think up to recently they
| used them, I think they are super cool; great shout :)
|
| I'd wanna grab a friend w/ a 3D printer to make one because I
| kind of like the flexibility of sellotape at the moment,
| especially the roll chart mount into the airframe
| thepaulmcbride wrote:
| I've been thinking about something like this but with an e ink
| display. I want something that has the frequencies and waypoints
| I need in case my iPad dies that isn't reliant on power.
|
| Very cool project!
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Yeeeehaww!! e-ink rocks!! Do it
| mmastrac wrote:
| Awesome project. You should edit the title with a "Show HN"
| prefix!
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Thank you thank you thank you -- just did! Nice day
| 71a54xd wrote:
| This is awesome, but I've been less excited with using my thermal
| label printer / thermal tape printer lately since realizing those
| labels are absolutely loaded with BPAs intended to stabilize the
| thermal ink. :(
| mschuster91 wrote:
| There's special BPA-free or at least -reduced paper these days,
| the local supermarkets here have shifted to using that for
| environmental reasons.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| I had no idea! Researching now
| lsh123 wrote:
| Sometime soon you will discover ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot, and
| your life would never be the same ;)
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Hehe --- for sure, I'll grow up one day
| chrischattin wrote:
| ForeFlight is the greatest app ever created.
| aledalgrande wrote:
| Muahaha looks like a restaurant order for the kitchen I love it!
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Waypoint 6 wants a number 12 and 3 number 8s - 9NM away and
| they want it in 3min31
| palijer wrote:
| I've worked in a bunch of restaurants and now work with
| restaurant software (we're hiring some cool positions if you are
| interested [1])
|
| The one thing I'd be a bit wary about here is heat making that
| paper unreadable. I've seen a bunch of kitchens intend to run
| thermal printers in kitchens, but had to switch to impact
| printers because how quickly the paper would turn dark in the
| ambient heat in the kitchen, plus the heat lamps on expo station.
|
| Thankfully the author isn't relying on this for anything
| absolutely critical (also aviate, then navigate anyways) but I'd
| wonder if on a sunny day without any clouds there, how quickly
| that paper would degrade.
|
| [1] https://boards.greenhouse.io/touchbistro/jobs/5058791003
| carloslagoa wrote:
| that's interesting, thanks for the insight -- I was aware of
| thermal's darkening but unaware of it's speed. I'll leave one
| out in the sun tomorrow, if I can have ~4hrs with it I'll be
| chuffed
|
| And, of course, as you said, aviate navigate communicate first
| :)
|
| Thanks!
| pierat wrote:
| Yeah I've been "burned" by thermal receipts before. Had a
| receipt in my wallet. 30 days later, the thermal print
| completely faded.
|
| Had to dispute with credit card company over that one. Wasn't
| fun.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Makes me wonder if "you need a receipt to claim warranty"
| is intentional like that.
|
| There's a few apps that can organize / OCR receipts for
| you, if a photo of a receipt is adequate. I don't actually
| know any and I may be talking out of my ass but err. I'm
| sure there are!
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Worth reading this Brother study on thermal paper degradation:
| https://www.anixter.com/content/dam/Suppliers/Brother/White%...
|
| Worth looking at Figure 3 showing how different samples of
| thermal paper have vastly difference reactions to high
| temperatures.
|
| Once had a set of Aliexpress plastic water carriers take 6
| months to arrive to me during COVID and it when it arrived, it
| seemed like the plasticizers from the carriers (or the
| factory?) severely degraded the thermal shipping label.
| clumsysmurf wrote:
| Also, most thermal paper is high in BPA/BPS.
|
| https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-...
| chaxor wrote:
| General Aviation still uses lead in their gas, despite it
| being shown several times in enormous nationwide studies
| consistently to not be necessary, and often simply requires
| more cost in maintenance (lead builds up on spark plugs
| causing a lot of issues).
|
| So environmental impact isn't high on their list already, and
| this BPA issue is very likely going to be completely ignored
| by anyone in that field.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| Yes, but the avgas lead situation is primarily a problem
| for the people behind/under the aircraft, not inside the
| aircraft.
| svarlamov wrote:
| Is there any way to send a Foreflight flight plan into this
| printer setup?
| carloslagoa wrote:
| damn -- if I went through the silly PDF that SkyVector provides
| -- why not!
|
| Lemme research a bit what the export format is!
| svarlamov wrote:
| Not sure about Europe, but I think Foreflight is the most
| popular EFB in the US for GA pilots. Would be sweet to have
| support for it!
| jcrawfordor wrote:
| I wrote up a tool years ago that would take a nav log and print
| the charts onto long strips of receipt tape, basically as an
| artistic venture. The Epson thermal printers can do surprisingly
| nice halftone once you figure out which of the several ESC/POS
| raster modes they like the most, although the printing is very
| slow compared to the usual text speed. Unfortunately I don't
| think I have the scripts any more.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| Thats sounds dope! I had to modify the library I use for
| printing because it was made for Epson ones hehe
|
| I agree -- it's artistic than anything, but is cool!
|
| Thanks for popping by :)
| alanbernstein wrote:
| This makes me want to buy a receipt printer to use for grocery
| shopping lists.
| _joel wrote:
| Retail inception
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I have an unused unit I can ship to you gratis. Email in
| profile.
| carloslagoa wrote:
| what a great gesture!! put a smile in my face
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Just paying it forward, love your project, thanks for
| sharing it with us.
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