[HN Gopher] Show HN: Aviation navigation log on $20 receipt printer
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       Show HN: Aviation navigation log on $20 receipt printer
        
       Author : carloslagoa
       Score  : 210 points
       Date   : 2023-08-19 16:57 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (carloslagoa.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (carloslagoa.com)
        
       | AndrewKemendo wrote:
       | Single Engine Land PPL holder here.
       | 
       | I would have loved this when I was flying still. Such memories
       | with the kneeboard and nav logs!
       | 
       | Fun fact: I left my plotter and E6B in my black car in TX during
       | cross-country training and came back to both melted! I was broke
       | and 18 so figured I would wing it, but it surely made my
       | calculations error biased by some amount of yards because I was
       | broke and not wanting to buy a new one!
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Hahaha, I had a similar thing, I folded my E6B day 1 hour 2 of
         | ground school... anything from 130deg to 210deg had a +-5deg
         | parallax error
         | 
         | Great story! Glad it coulda been've use :)
        
       | iefbr14 wrote:
       | Nice, but I would like to know where you can get those printers
       | for just 20 bucks :)
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | I actually just bought one from the business next door but on
         | eBay I've seen them at $20 (tho if you get the Super Pro XL
         | Mega 4K one it's more hehe)
        
           | iefbr14 wrote:
           | >I've seen them at $20
           | 
           | Have another look, its more like 50 nowadays, thanks to the
           | new ones having proprietary paper with chip.
        
             | carloslagoa wrote:
             | damn you may be right (maybe something between 20 and 50 at
             | least)
             | 
             | does second hand count? gumtree m/craigslist/facebook
             | marketplace/ etc etc
        
       | EMM_386 wrote:
       | I'm a dinosaur and I'm always amazed at the technology that
       | pilot's have available to them these days.
       | 
       | While complex to learn, having huge glass navigation systems
       | sitting in front of you in a single engine plane seems so foreign
       | to me.
       | 
       | I did my instrument ride in a C-172 and my commercial in a PA-44.
       | 
       | During _both_ of those checkrides, I ended up having to shoot ILS
       | approaches to minimums, in turbulent IFR conditions, with nothing
       | but  "steam gauges". The fanciest thing in the plane was probably
       | the HSI.
       | 
       | On the instrument ride, I had to shoot an NDB approach _to
       | minimums_ in actual. That was a good time.
       | 
       | I assume planes don't even come with NDBs anymore. I used to tune
       | into AM radio on them just to have something to listen to to pass
       | the time.
       | 
       | I used the latest Microsoft Flight Simulator recently and loaded
       | up the C-172. It just stared at the screen for a minute,
       | realizing I don't know how to use a G1000 so I couldn't fly it. I
       | mean, I could start it up and get it off the ground, but for IFR
       | navigation? No clue. Lots of buttons and fancy graphics.
       | 
       | The march of progress.
        
         | AndrewKemendo wrote:
         | Same! My checkride was in 2001 in a 1979 Cessna 150.
         | 
         | My check pilot was a 5'2" WWII vet that needed a booster seat
         | and was notorious for opening his damn door on final approach
         | (which he did to me, luckily I was prepared).
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | > notorious for opening his damn door on final approach
           | 
           | Isn't that a good strategy for when someone thinks they'll be
           | in a crash so it doesn't jam closed? Congrats on passing
           | despite that!
        
         | nunodonato wrote:
         | I strongly dislike glass cockpits for some reason. Flying VOR
         | using steam gauges is the best :D
         | 
         | Edit: I mean in a simulator. When I'm flying IRL, a GPS is
         | really handy :')
        
         | aledalgrande wrote:
         | Reminds me of my (pretty recent) sailing course :) I went on a
         | few short sailing trips after and other people on the boat only
         | trained on the boat we were on, which was much fancier than the
         | one I first had to deal with. The original one had:
         | 
         | - tiller instead of wheel (my brain could not)
         | 
         | - no bathroom (bucket available)
         | 
         | - no furling foresail (got to change to a storm jib in strong
         | winds)
         | 
         | - no auto locking winch
         | 
         | - no auto pilot
         | 
         | - no depth sensor
         | 
         | - no gps/screen
         | 
         | - no fuel gauge
         | 
         | - no clutches (only a couple of jam cleats that didn't work
         | really well)
         | 
         | - retractable engine (so we had to lower it/pull it up
         | manually, was fun to use it to stabilize the boat a bit when
         | winds were strong)
         | 
         | Boat was also a bit smaller 31' vs 34'. I'd still take my
         | course on that boat if I had to redo it, it was a deeper
         | learning experience.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | Ignore the fancy stuff, the steam gauges are still there on the
         | side.
        
         | svarlamov wrote:
         | G1000s are great, but it's disappointing that just about
         | everything else has remained basically unchanged on GA aircraft
         | for the last 30+ years. I hope that we will see some actual
         | innovation in GA engines, airframes, and fuels soon. Fuels
         | might be the most promising for the near-term.
        
           | V99 wrote:
           | The innovation/future exists, but is not evenly distributed.
           | For example Diamond planes [1] have:                 - The
           | same G1000 (NXi)       - A composite body       - Jet-fuel
           | burning engines adapted from recent Mercedes diesels       -
           | Computer control of that engine through one knob instead of
           | managing the throttle/mixture/prop separately like cavemen
           | - Crash testing, like impact absorbing seat structure and
           | separately enclosed fuel tank modules that are unlikely to
           | rupture instead of just filling the wing.
           | 
           | And a new one costs about the same as a new Cessna 172 that's
           | been essentially unchanged since the 60's except for the
           | G1000 like you said.
           | 
           | But "the same" is a pretty nice house in most of the country
           | (~$600k) so everything is hand-built, so costs are high,
           | demand is kept low. Commercial students trying to get their
           | 1500hrs mostly just need the lowest cost, not the nicest or
           | safest.
           | 
           | Another big area of innovation and also lower costs is in
           | experimentals and/or light-sport. LSAs should be getting a
           | lot more capable soon with MOSAIC [2]
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.diamondaircraft.com/en/private-
           | owners/aircraft/d... [2]: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-
           | media/all-news/2023/july/25/mo...
        
             | pqdbr wrote:
             | Half a year ago I asked around about the price of a DA62
             | I'm Brazil and it would be in the range of 1.6M USD (8M
             | BRL).
             | 
             | Did the price you quote (600k USD) was for the single
             | engine model? If so, how much would a DA62 cost you in the
             | US?
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | Nearly all the innovation in general aviation, particularly
           | regarding situational awareness and safety, is happening in
           | the Experimental category. Moving maps, synthetic
           | vision/terrain alerts, ADS-B in and out, engine monitoring,
           | airspeed-aware electronic trim control, fuel injection,
           | electronic ignition, FADEC systems... yes, all are available
           | on newer certificated planes for $,$$$,$$$, but much more
           | affordable and accessible in the Experimental world. And, the
           | builder/owner can install and configure everything himself.
           | Garmin's latest G3X update includes the ability to use
           | rudimentary set/clear logic signals to do if-this-and-that
           | type CAS alerts, and configure your gauges to behave
           | differently during different phases of flight. All owner-
           | configurable.
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | I'd have to agree (with the little experience I have). My
         | school is the cheapest on the block and we have the oldest
         | planes, the other day I sat in another's schools C172 and saw
         | the G1000 and.. "damn.. look at all those colours and uh what
         | does this button do" was just about all I could say
         | 
         | I think in regards to safety, screens have the upper hand 99%
         | of the time however...
         | 
         | a) the 1:1 of screen X to screen Y doesn't exist, I (think) you
         | have to pretty much learn the new system
         | 
         | b) there's a certain je ne se quais to instruments
         | 
         | c) the school that has the G1000 needs a G1000 trainer as well
         | as an IFR trainer (though I guess that's fine because then you
         | have experience in both)
         | 
         | d) too much screens may not be the best - the G600 has
         | touchscreens now
        
           | V99 wrote:
           | Guessing you meant 6-pack/steam-gauge trainer, since anything
           | with a G1000 put in is virtually guaranteed to be IFR-
           | capable.
           | 
           | There's no hard requirement to learn one versus the other. If
           | you're a new student today and looking to go to one of the
           | big-boy airlines you'll probably never need to fly a 6-pack
           | if the school you pick has G1000's.
        
             | carloslagoa wrote:
             | Yup! Sorry, glad you caught on :)
             | 
             | Maybe my point was rubbish, just wanted to highlight that
             | the learning curve is --> this is an IFR instrument + how
             | it's represented/actioned thru our avionics suite
             | 
             | For sure, something bigboys might be happy to hear you
             | covered in your ATP
        
           | tecleandor wrote:
           | What's your school, BTW?
           | 
           | I've done a bunch of ULM test flights at LEIR and LEMT, and
           | I've always been curious about getting at least an ULM
           | license...
        
             | carloslagoa wrote:
             | LECU! Mostly PPL & ATPL classes --- unsure about ULM
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | I probably understood 20% of the pilot slang you used here.
        
           | Digory wrote:
           | The G1000 is the Garmin "glass cockpit" system.
           | 
           | https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/6420
        
           | carloslagoa wrote:
           | check this out!! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QgyLEE2TA-I&pp
           | =ygUYcGlsb3Qgc29...
        
             | EMM_386 wrote:
             | Hah, that was great!
             | 
             | It's weird as both a commercial pilot and former ATC, I
             | understood absolutely every acronym in the song.
             | 
             | We sure do have a lot of them.
        
               | lobsterthief wrote:
               | You should see the number of acronyms in military
               | aerospace programs ;)
        
         | _s wrote:
         | Honestly - as someone who did their primary and instrument
         | using steam gauges, and now mostly flies a Cirrus Perspective+
         | system (G1000 with some extra's), you'll get up to speed in
         | less than a few hours of digging through the manual and playing
         | in the SIM.
         | 
         | After about 10 or so hours, you'll start finding so many small
         | things that make life infinitely easier for single-pilot ops
         | that it's ridiculous we can do x or y with so little effort.
         | 
         | Running lean of peak, having a TOD, programming in our steps,
         | hitting the approach button and just letting the plane fly is
         | black magic at times. There's no going back for me at this
         | rate, especially when I just want to go places. I've got a
         | single-seat Yak for when I truly want to "fly"!
        
         | HappyJoy wrote:
         | It's hard to find NDB approaches at all anymore. Did you do IR
         | in the US? The FAA from what I've read doesn't even encourage
         | an instrument checkride in IMC. That's crazy you did it twice.
        
           | EMM_386 wrote:
           | Yes, US in the late 90s.
           | 
           | I went to colllege to become an airline pilot, and I was
           | shocked that I ended up having to fly an NDB approach in
           | actual conditions to minimums. You just don't see that
           | anymore.
           | 
           | And the tolerances on the checkride is that you can only
           | deviate from the course by a certain number of degrees.
           | 
           | I vividly remember staring at the ADF with the needle
           | swinging wildly left to right as we were tossed around
           | thinking "surely I can't get failed for turbulence"?
        
             | HappyJoy wrote:
             | Thanks so much for sharing. I wrapped up instrument earlier
             | this year entirely in a TAA. Went out with my CFII a few
             | times in steam gauge because I felt like I was missing out
        
       | mschuster91 wrote:
       | Niiice. I'm looking to start flight training myself for
       | ultralight next years and will _definitely_ keep this bookmarked.
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Wohooo!! good luck!!
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | This is one of those posts with tons of images whose alt text is
       | just set to the literal string "alt text".
       | 
       | Does anybody know where this phenomenon comes from? This isn't
       | the first time I'm seeing this, and I don't know why anybody ever
       | thought that it was a good idea.
        
         | moogly wrote:
         | The `alt` attribute is technically required for `img` tags, so
         | if you run your HTML through a validator, or want to shut up
         | IDE/editor warnings, you're going to have to add it. It can be
         | an empty string though IIRC.
        
         | rtheunissen wrote:
         | Might be a CMS of some kind because I doubt anyone would
         | purposefully type out "alt text".
        
           | carloslagoa wrote:
           | Sadly just me being dumb :')
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | I copy pasted my <img> tags cause I had to 'remake' the blog
         | and completely forgot to fill it in, if you are using
         | accessibility functionality I am very sorry -- please allow me
         | to update it briefly
         | 
         | Have a nice weekend :)
        
       | carloslagoa wrote:
       | Hi HN!
       | 
       | Just a small script I wrote a few days ago, but I had 2 or 3
       | friends publish some blogs online and I got hella jelly --- so
       | here's my submission, so at least I can say I made something and
       | post it.
       | 
       | Hopefully you like both planes and tech and very hopefully you
       | find this an okay read :)
       | 
       | Any spelling mistakes, bugs, issues, ethics, please do tell me
       | about!
       | 
       | Sorry if it looks rushed -- night is coming upon us and I need to
       | take the dog out!
       | 
       | Good weekend!
        
         | tux1968 wrote:
         | Hi there! Which printer are you using? Can't be a new one at
         | that price, surely?
        
         | jfim wrote:
         | Not knowing much about aviation, are there concerns if the
         | printed list falls off of the pillar?
        
           | carloslagoa wrote:
           | Hi! --- fantastic question, so far, mostly due to the gentle
           | nature of General Aviation flights and my sellotape skills, I
           | haven't had to deal with this.
           | 
           | I did worry at one point, but it's surprisingly sturdy.
           | 
           | If it does fall --- no worries! I have my original
           | (kneeboard) copy to go off
           | 
           | Thanks for the question!
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | whartung wrote:
       | You should look into a roll chart. It's a small device typically
       | mounted to a handlebar of a motorcycle that contains directions.
       | 
       | As you reach each waypoint, you turn a knob and roll the next
       | waypoint into the window. It should work just great with your
       | receipt printer and your not limited to the length of the A
       | pillar in your plane.
        
         | DavidPeiffer wrote:
         | I like any excuse to mention the Jones Live Map. Back in the
         | day it hooked up to a car odometer and when the arrow pointed
         | to a direction, you'd take it.
         | 
         | It works well as long as you never miss a direction, then it
         | gets off.
         | 
         | It'd be horrible with the variability in land speed from the
         | same engine speed, but maybe that'd be part of the "fun" trying
         | it for an airplane.
         | 
         | https://www.sealcoveautomuseum.org/collection-test/jones-liv...
        
         | cameronh90 wrote:
         | I've ridden a motorbike for 15 years and this is the first I've
         | heard of roll charts!
         | 
         | Prior to phones, I would just scrawl my notes onto a sheet of
         | A5 and tape it to the top of the tank. It didn't work well when
         | it was raining.
        
           | kotaKat wrote:
           | I'm just starting out onto a motorbike and this is a stupidly
           | brilliant idea, and I _do_ have a 2.5 " IBM receipt
           | printer...
        
           | klinquist wrote:
           | It's most common in the dual sport community. I ride dual
           | sport rides here on the west coast that still provide roll
           | charts as their primary routing.
        
         | tennisflyi wrote:
         | Roll charts and the kneeboard are good to know about now!
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | I was about to buy a plane with a longer a pillar --- darn it!
         | I guess roll chart makes more sense indeed.
         | 
         | I know them from the Rally Dakar, I think up to recently they
         | used them, I think they are super cool; great shout :)
         | 
         | I'd wanna grab a friend w/ a 3D printer to make one because I
         | kind of like the flexibility of sellotape at the moment,
         | especially the roll chart mount into the airframe
        
       | thepaulmcbride wrote:
       | I've been thinking about something like this but with an e ink
       | display. I want something that has the frequencies and waypoints
       | I need in case my iPad dies that isn't reliant on power.
       | 
       | Very cool project!
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Yeeeehaww!! e-ink rocks!! Do it
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | Awesome project. You should edit the title with a "Show HN"
       | prefix!
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Thank you thank you thank you -- just did! Nice day
        
       | 71a54xd wrote:
       | This is awesome, but I've been less excited with using my thermal
       | label printer / thermal tape printer lately since realizing those
       | labels are absolutely loaded with BPAs intended to stabilize the
       | thermal ink. :(
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | There's special BPA-free or at least -reduced paper these days,
         | the local supermarkets here have shifted to using that for
         | environmental reasons.
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | I had no idea! Researching now
        
       | lsh123 wrote:
       | Sometime soon you will discover ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot, and
       | your life would never be the same ;)
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Hehe --- for sure, I'll grow up one day
        
         | chrischattin wrote:
         | ForeFlight is the greatest app ever created.
        
       | aledalgrande wrote:
       | Muahaha looks like a restaurant order for the kitchen I love it!
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Waypoint 6 wants a number 12 and 3 number 8s - 9NM away and
         | they want it in 3min31
        
       | palijer wrote:
       | I've worked in a bunch of restaurants and now work with
       | restaurant software (we're hiring some cool positions if you are
       | interested [1])
       | 
       | The one thing I'd be a bit wary about here is heat making that
       | paper unreadable. I've seen a bunch of kitchens intend to run
       | thermal printers in kitchens, but had to switch to impact
       | printers because how quickly the paper would turn dark in the
       | ambient heat in the kitchen, plus the heat lamps on expo station.
       | 
       | Thankfully the author isn't relying on this for anything
       | absolutely critical (also aviate, then navigate anyways) but I'd
       | wonder if on a sunny day without any clouds there, how quickly
       | that paper would degrade.
       | 
       | [1] https://boards.greenhouse.io/touchbistro/jobs/5058791003
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | that's interesting, thanks for the insight -- I was aware of
         | thermal's darkening but unaware of it's speed. I'll leave one
         | out in the sun tomorrow, if I can have ~4hrs with it I'll be
         | chuffed
         | 
         | And, of course, as you said, aviate navigate communicate first
         | :)
         | 
         | Thanks!
        
           | pierat wrote:
           | Yeah I've been "burned" by thermal receipts before. Had a
           | receipt in my wallet. 30 days later, the thermal print
           | completely faded.
           | 
           | Had to dispute with credit card company over that one. Wasn't
           | fun.
        
             | Cthulhu_ wrote:
             | Makes me wonder if "you need a receipt to claim warranty"
             | is intentional like that.
             | 
             | There's a few apps that can organize / OCR receipts for
             | you, if a photo of a receipt is adequate. I don't actually
             | know any and I may be talking out of my ass but err. I'm
             | sure there are!
        
         | Scoundreller wrote:
         | Worth reading this Brother study on thermal paper degradation:
         | https://www.anixter.com/content/dam/Suppliers/Brother/White%...
         | 
         | Worth looking at Figure 3 showing how different samples of
         | thermal paper have vastly difference reactions to high
         | temperatures.
         | 
         | Once had a set of Aliexpress plastic water carriers take 6
         | months to arrive to me during COVID and it when it arrived, it
         | seemed like the plasticizers from the carriers (or the
         | factory?) severely degraded the thermal shipping label.
        
         | clumsysmurf wrote:
         | Also, most thermal paper is high in BPA/BPS.
         | 
         | https://www.pca.state.mn.us/business-with-us/bpa-and-bps-in-...
        
           | chaxor wrote:
           | General Aviation still uses lead in their gas, despite it
           | being shown several times in enormous nationwide studies
           | consistently to not be necessary, and often simply requires
           | more cost in maintenance (lead builds up on spark plugs
           | causing a lot of issues).
           | 
           | So environmental impact isn't high on their list already, and
           | this BPA issue is very likely going to be completely ignored
           | by anyone in that field.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Yes, but the avgas lead situation is primarily a problem
             | for the people behind/under the aircraft, not inside the
             | aircraft.
        
       | svarlamov wrote:
       | Is there any way to send a Foreflight flight plan into this
       | printer setup?
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | damn -- if I went through the silly PDF that SkyVector provides
         | -- why not!
         | 
         | Lemme research a bit what the export format is!
        
           | svarlamov wrote:
           | Not sure about Europe, but I think Foreflight is the most
           | popular EFB in the US for GA pilots. Would be sweet to have
           | support for it!
        
       | jcrawfordor wrote:
       | I wrote up a tool years ago that would take a nav log and print
       | the charts onto long strips of receipt tape, basically as an
       | artistic venture. The Epson thermal printers can do surprisingly
       | nice halftone once you figure out which of the several ESC/POS
       | raster modes they like the most, although the printing is very
       | slow compared to the usual text speed. Unfortunately I don't
       | think I have the scripts any more.
        
         | carloslagoa wrote:
         | Thats sounds dope! I had to modify the library I use for
         | printing because it was made for Epson ones hehe
         | 
         | I agree -- it's artistic than anything, but is cool!
         | 
         | Thanks for popping by :)
        
       | alanbernstein wrote:
       | This makes me want to buy a receipt printer to use for grocery
       | shopping lists.
        
         | _joel wrote:
         | Retail inception
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | I have an unused unit I can ship to you gratis. Email in
         | profile.
        
           | carloslagoa wrote:
           | what a great gesture!! put a smile in my face
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | Just paying it forward, love your project, thanks for
             | sharing it with us.
        
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       (page generated 2023-08-19 23:00 UTC)