[HN Gopher] 2009scape
___________________________________________________________________
2009scape
Author : OsrsNeedsf2P
Score : 246 points
Date : 2023-08-18 22:40 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (2009scape.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (2009scape.org)
| 72736379 wrote:
| Private servers like this (though for a different game) were my
| first exposure to programming, free and open source software, and
| eventually, computer science as a whole- when I eventually went
| off to college I majored in computer science and had a great head
| start in many of the practical/application courses.
|
| I learned about versioning with SVN, OOP with Java, hacking
| together websites and forums with PHP while in middle school.
| Really fun times on the Internet.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| Ultima Online?
| 72736379 wrote:
| Nope, was involved in the MapleStory private server scene.
| darknavi wrote:
| OdinMS was such a fun time. I too started programming
| MapleStory private servers. Vana was my intro to C++ and as
| I learned in Uni it made it so much more fun.
|
| That and Minecraft modding with hMod and Bukkit.
| 72736379 wrote:
| If you frequented forums like RaGEZONE it's likely we've
| ran into each other before!
| bogwog wrote:
| That's how I was introduced to SQL!
| munk-a wrote:
| I ended up cutting my teeth working on maintaining a MUD (that
| sadly just recently went offline). I think gaming is a big draw
| for tinkering and programming simply because how much time we
| spent interacting with it and how (at the time at least) it was
| very accessible to modify. A lot of what you're working on is
| changing data values and plugin-style things rather than
| getting bogged down in modeling and other much less
| approachable aspects of the game.
|
| I imagine you can't throw a rock in the HN crowd without
| hitting someone who once worked on an EVE Online spreadsheet of
| one disposition or another.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Same here. Open Tibia servers were the first code bases I
| explored and tried to modify when I was a kid.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| You've just reminded me of one of my learning experiences on my
| private server. I implemented a HTTP server. It was very basic
| but this was before I really learned about using libraries.
| grubbs wrote:
| Had a similar experience. I was a complete addict in High
| School to late 90's Everquest. I believe the project was EQEmu
| and I was able to spin up a local SQL server and run my own
| private server. I had no idea what I was doing at the time but
| I got it to work and was able to have friends join me...over my
| dialup connection. Unreal at the time :)
| bovermyer wrote:
| I really appreciate the web design. That was a style that only
| existed for about five years, give or take a year or two.
|
| It makes me really nostalgic. But beyond that, that style of web
| design has completely disappeared. It was expensive to make, not
| particularly mobile-friendly, and only really favors one screen
| resolution. But it was beautiful.
| bobinux wrote:
| They implemented it using float and etc. My nostalgia tears are
| dropping
| SnowProblem wrote:
| Exactly. Here's Gamespot's homepage in 2007:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20070228162159/http://www.gamesp...
|
| Very similar. So much more personality than Gamespot today:
|
| https://www.gamespot.com
|
| But back then everyone viewed websites on desktop. Mobile if
| supported was special-cased. It's the opposite now.
| opportune wrote:
| Modern designers would think it's terrible because it gives
| you too much information, and suggest putting in way more
| white space, hiding things under menu bars. I wish I was
| being facetious but sadly it's a sincere statement.
|
| Completely agree though. Information-heavy pages for desktop
| consumption were wonderful. It truly feels like we've
| regressed. Just loading that gamespot link honestly filled me
| with an immense nostalgia for the web of 10-15 years ago
| lelandfe wrote:
| You call it personality, I call it gradient overload. Check
| out the difference in content density, though.
| bovermyer wrote:
| Humor me for a moment. What decade did you go to high
| school in?
| lelandfe wrote:
| I'm in my late 30s! Can't wait to see what condescension
| comes next.
| bovermyer wrote:
| I didn't mean to sound condescending, I was genuinely
| curious. I was wondering if there's a correlation between
| age and aesthetics, but we're about the same age.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Back in the day it was just a table based layout though. It was
| used for quite some time. I'd say the design first emerged
| about 1998 and lasted until the smartphones came in 2010 or so.
|
| It's surprisingly easy to make that sort of design if you use
| the right tools. You just drew it in photoshop and sliced it up
| and exported it as an HTML table, then you poked out the bits
| where the content was supposed to go.
|
| Doing it with CSS is a right pain in the ass though. I guess
| that's why there are so many mono-colored rectangles in modern
| web design.
| Sharlin wrote:
| These days it's actually pretty easy with CSS flexbox or
| grid.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| You can get the boxes in the right places, but you can't
| style them in nearly the same way.
| hoten wrote:
| For some context, the Jagex reboot "Old School Runescape" (OSRS)
| forked from a circa-2007 build of the game. It was apparently a
| stroke of luck that they still had the source code.
|
| Notably, the 2007 version was before huge changes to the game
| that many original players disliked enough to stop playing. But
| it was also before the HD version. So OSRS player have been stuck
| with low quality graphics (however, a modder has recently fixed
| that. There was some drama over this, Jagex tried to prevent the
| mod from being allowed, but they backed off).
|
| The OSRS version was also pre-neutering of PvP for real-word
| currency purposes, which happened Dec 2007. I guess this
| 2009scape would have a neutered Wilderness too. Or perhaps
| they're making some editorial tweaks.
|
| 2009 still predates many of the wild changes Jagex made that
| eventually morphed into RS3. Some would be nice to have in OSRS
| (mining/smithing was rehauled in a nice way, some new skills that
| OSRS players wish they had like Dungeoneering are missing --- but
| changes like "Evolution of Combat"[1] was a breaking point for
| many). My understanding is that if they had found the source code
| circa 2009, Jagex would have used that and OSRS players would
| have enjoyed HD on day one.
|
| Jagex has done a good job with OSRS, running it with just a few
| people and heavily relying on community feedback in the form of
| polling content updates. If something does not pass majority
| opinion, it is not added to the game. They've added multiple new
| quests, areas, and skilling options under this model, to the
| point where OSRS is quite distinct from its circa-2007 seed. One
| thing they can't seem to get consensus on though is a new skill -
| every attempt I'm aware of has been downvoted by the community,
| seemingly for reasons similar to "it would devalue my investment
| in X skill".
|
| [1] https://runescape.wiki/w/Evolution_of_Combat
| memefrog wrote:
| OSRS players have not been "stuck with low quality graphics".
| The appeal of that version of the game is as a whole. It was
| not _just_ "the version without the one later change that
| wasn't liked". It was the version before the general change in
| approach.
|
| The big problem with the "HD" version was that it was
| inconsistent. They couldn't update the whole world at once (or
| chose not to) so they updated it in bits, and those bits often
| felt really out of place compared to the much more cohesive
| older style.
|
| >2009 still predates many of the wild changes Jagex made that
| eventually morphed into RS3. Some would be nice to have in OSRS
| (mining/smithing was rehauled in a nice way, some new skills
| that OSRS players wish they had like Dungeoneering are missing
| --- but changes like "Evolution of Combat"[1] was a breaking
| point for many). My understanding is that if they had found the
| source code circa 2009, Jagex would have used that and OSRS
| players would have enjoyed HD on day one.
|
| Dungeoneering was a (pretty good) minigame forced into the
| mould of a (pretty bad) skill for essentially no reason. The
| mining/smithing rework was very recent and not at all good for
| the game.
|
| Contrary to the popular belief of people like you (who seem to
| be the dominant voice on social media), the desire in the first
| place for "2007scape" did not originate with JaGEx. It came
| from a website very similar to this one, which aimed to
| recreate a 2005 or 2006 version of the game. JaGEx saw this
| desire and found the oldest copy of the RS2 source code they
| could. It isn't that they would have gone _later_ if they could
| have. They would have gone _earlier_ if they could have. Even
| 2007 was the beginning of the end for the game. It was when it
| started to morph further towards what it is like today: a
| wholly unlikable game, the players of which are obsessed with
| grinding to the maximum level in every skill. That 's not how
| people played before they added the level 99 skillcapes in
| 2006.
|
| >Jagex has done a good job with OSRS, running it with just a
| few people and heavily relying on community feedback in the
| form of polling content updates.
|
| This was true for the first few years but clearly isn't true
| today. They add a lot of content to the game now.
|
| >If something does not pass majority opinion, it is not added
| to the game. They've added multiple new quests, areas, and
| skilling options under this model, to the point where OSRS is
| quite distinct from its circa-2007 seed. One thing they can't
| seem to get consensus on though is a new skill - every attempt
| I'm aware of has been downvoted by the community, seemingly for
| reasons similar to "it would devalue my investment in X skill".
|
| This is evidence that the game is nothing like it was in 2007.
| Back then, people loved new skills and the idea of "devaluing
| my investment" just didn't exist. The awful "xp waste"/"grind"
| mentality of players today is what has driven a lot of players
| away from the game. It's this sort of mentality where you
| cannot have a valid opinion on the game unless you're at
| "endgame" and have basically maximum levels in every skill.
| That is a World of Warcraft/Everquest-style mentality. "The
| game starts at endgame". "The game is about raiding and killing
| bosses". Just not what RS was originally about at all.
|
| Frankly they've changed the game so much since the 2014 revival
| of "2007"-scape that it is more different today than RS3 was
| from 2007scape in 2014. And not for the better.
| hoten wrote:
| > OSRS players have not been "stuck with low quality
| graphics". The appeal of that version of the game is as a
| whole. It was not just "the version without the one later
| change that wasn't liked". It was the version before the
| general change in approach.
|
| Sure, it's important to note that OSRS players are not a
| monolith, and people differ on which aspects of the more
| modern game they disliked. As I recall, HD was an optional
| toggle. So yes, all OSRS players indeed are "stuck" with the
| older graphics - the presence of HD would not mean players
| with a nostalgia for the 2007-era graphics would be left out
| in the cold. Anecdotally everyone I know lauded the HD
| upgrade at the time, but I get it wasn't perfect.
|
| > Dungeoneering was a (pretty good) minigame forced into the
| mould of a (pretty bad) skill for essentially no reason. The
| mining/smithing rework was very recent and not at all good
| for the game.
|
| Admittedly I've only seen some commentary from OSRS youtubers
| about the mining update, and I came away from that thinking
| the changed mechanics sounded desirable. I've no direct
| experience.
| insanitybit wrote:
| I wonder what the impact of social media has been.
|
| 1. I was on Runscape in the early 2000s. There was no
| Twitter, Facebook was very new and not really that popular,
| and nothing else existed. Like, I think _Gaia_ was one of the
| more popular forums I knew of lol. That meant that Runescape
| was actually a highly social experience - it 's insane the
| kinds of relationships I built as a 14-18 year old who played
| the game somewhat obsessively. Staying up all night, meeting
| strangers. Not actually "playing" the game - like, that was
| something to do for fun, but so much of it was _hanging out_
| with people.
|
| With social media I get a lot of that from other sites. And
| in general I don't need it as much as I'm not staying up
| until 4am anymore lol but man it was something else to
| socialize through a "forum" like Runescape. Even the organic
| fact that people could "overhear" your conversations just
| because they were near you in the game led to so many funny
| "meet cutes", for lack of a better term.
|
| 2. The other side of social media influence is that there's a
| lot more flexing, memeing, and appealing to masses. When I
| played Runescape it was like... a shameful thing lol, I
| literally told almost no one at school, and when it came up
| it was kind of a secret between the few kids who played. It
| was lame, period , and we did not want to be thought of as
| lame. No way in hell would I have been posting online about
| it, nor was there any place to post about it like Reddit -
| you either posted on the RS boards (probably not tho), or in
| your clan's custom forum that someone set up.
|
| But now, re (2), there's a lot more room to posture. You can
| brag way more about your 99s, show them off, show off what
| you're doing etc. And I think that probably leads to a lot
| more of the 'grind', which, again (1) was not the point. The
| point was to run through the wild with your friends at 4am
| and get scared when pkers came after you and you'd lose a
| bunch of your shit but who cares. The money we made was
| genuinely just to fuel those good times. No one actually
| thought they were going to be the next Zezima - I say this as
| someone who had multiple 99s, it was mostly just for fun. And
| it's interesting that you bring up the capes - all of my 99s
| were after the capes, they were definitely a part of the
| ceremony.
|
| Viewing RS as a game with an "endgame" or as a game where the
| points matter is just sort of baffling to me and it's a bit
| of a shame to me that that's where it apparently has gone.
| tsunagatta wrote:
| > Not actually "playing" the game - like, that was
| something to do for fun, but so much of it was hanging out
| with people.
|
| I think probably far too much about how social media (or,
| in a broader sense, the mass adoption of the internet) has
| affected online games like this, and I was really happy to
| see your point here since this is a thought I've had a lot,
| but few people seem to understand what I mean when I try to
| bring it up! I vividly remember a time where people used to
| just _talk_ in online games a lot more, whereas now most
| online games feel sorta dead (if they even have a chat
| option) -- and I suspect that 's due to the fact that
| people are either A) playing with people they already know
| from real life and don't see any reason to communicate with
| anyone else, or B) only communicating with the community on
| platforms like Reddit, in an asynchronous, "flex"-based
| way. Imo, that shift is the major reason online games have
| essentially died out except in the form of competitive
| multiplayer with ephemeral lobbies.
|
| And I've noticed that when I try to explain how things were
| to people who weren't online before the shift happened,
| they can't even picture what it was like, or why it was
| fun. It's so odd to me that that entire way of interaction
| has just... disappeared.
| spicymapotofu wrote:
| The more things change, the more they stay the same. In
| 07 I made close friendships on the rs servers, enough
| that my friends would ask where I was if I took a few
| days. We reconnected years later, and if I was less
| asocial we could've met irl. I've been playing 07scape
| again and while I found a fun clan chat, I've been
| invited to several others by people I'm chatting with in
| public, due to just being prosocial and maybe well-
| adjusted.
|
| My point is, maybe people have a higher barrier to entry
| for 'online friendship', now, as adults, but at least in
| this same game, people still reach our and form bonds
| despite there being little in-game support for that
| socialization. Many still recognize that it's the funny
| yellow text that touches the heart, and not the count of
| exp in stats.
| Beldin wrote:
| I hadn't considered it like that, but that was pretty
| much how I experienced MUDding. I got into it and wanted
| to level up, do quests, and explore. Before hitting level
| 20 (out of 100, basically barely out of newbie status), I
| stopped caring about progress - but spent even more time
| there.
|
| I tried going back once, but without spending time to
| build connections with other players, it wasn't fun.
| Didn't quite realise that till I read your comment
| though.
| memefrog wrote:
| There has been a similar - but different - effect on
| games that were traditionally server-based like FPS
| games. Games where once you would join the same little
| deathmatch server, which had its own community and
| culture? Now you discuss the game on reddit (ew) and play
| MatchMaking against everyone else on your continent. You
| will never see those players again, ever, unless you're
| on a tiny server like the Australian one.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| >I vividly remember a time where people used to just talk
| in online games a lot more
|
| I play(ed) Ragnarok Online, and some of my fondest
| memories are logging into one of my characters, going
| into a PVP map, and then just sit around and talk shit
| with friends I made there.
|
| We would just sit and talk there, in the PVP map, and
| when someone who didn't get the memo stopped by to fight
| we'd collectively kick his ass out and then go back to
| talking. Some of them would get the memo and come back,
| then just sit down and join in and bam: New friend made.
|
| Those were some good times.
| hypercube33 wrote:
| I never played RuneScape but man the talk about using it as
| a social platform brings memories back. Quake 2, Tribes 2,
| The Palace Chat, First star online (the PC thing that was
| like an open clone of Zelda) and a few others. I miss the
| community and shenanigans and overall super supportive
| friendly people.
| ramses0 wrote:
| Tribes 2 holds a special place in that they effectively
| built a proto-internet inside the game client.
|
| It shipped with user-accounts, IRC (chat), newsgroups
| (forums), email (direct messages), LDAP
| (groups/clans/tribes), integrated voice, basically all
| the components of the internet except calendaring, and if
| you call CD-Keys like client certs... we'll, just
| impressive for any game and especially a game of the 2002
| era.
| livueta wrote:
| Slight quibble: that flex culture you and the parent
| discuss, embodied by going for 99s/200ms pre-skillcapes,
| definitely existed; you just weren't privy to it. Places
| like the tip.it forums were full of flex - remember those
| autogenerated stats signatures? - but that was its own
| little niche, not the dominant culture. You're probably
| right that social media amplified that dynamic a lot, but
| people like Zarfot and clans like DivinationX[0] were all
| about no xp waste well before that ethos hit the
| mainstream. It came from somewhere, rather than appearing
| fully formed from a seashell.
|
| I think you both have good points around how a monoculture
| makes the game less rich and more theme-park-MMO-ish. I
| always felt that one of the things that helped it feel a
| bit more like a world simulator and a bit less like a game
| was the diversity of ways in which people interacted with
| the game. Wanna be the guy who only farms herbs? Knock
| yourself out, the game won't stop you and make you go save
| the world or whatever. When everyone has the same goal
| (which when I still played I thought of as the slayer-
| ironman industrial complex rather than no xp waste) you
| lose that and are back to the inherent absurdity of 50
| million different Chosen Ones. It's just a little ironic
| that in a "no wrong way to play, do it for fun" kind of
| take you're calling out a wrong way to play.
|
| Disclaimer: obviously very biased; multiply maxed
|
| [0] I wanna say '06 but can't find forum archives and the
| swiftirc timestamps got reset at some point
| tylercrompton wrote:
| You so well describe why I played RS back in those days. I
| tried getting back into it a few years ago and it just
| didn't feel the same without my friends. But I never
| realized why it felt different until I read your comment.
| [deleted]
| Ferret7446 wrote:
| They charge so much and do so little, they better do a good job
| with it. Or rather, not doing anything is a very low bar to be
| defined as a "good job".
|
| (I'm aware subscription includes RS3, but the OSRS playerbase
| far eclipses RS3. You are paying for OSRS with RS3 as a cherry
| on top, not the other way around. Also, RS3 is funded with
| microtransactions.)
| lolinder wrote:
| > One thing they can't seem to get consensus on though is a new
| skill - every attempt I'm aware of has been downvoted by the
| community, seemingly for reasons similar to "it would devalue
| my investment in X skill".
|
| Sailing recently got enough votes that they've started
| development on it:
|
| https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Sailing
|
| I suppose it could still get shut down by the community later.
| hoten wrote:
| Oh that's exciting! Thanks for sharing. I might play a bit
| more when that is released.
|
| I just pulled up my OSRS Google doc "backlog" and it's a few
| pages of things tracking what I should do next. The game
| really scratches that itch of crossing items off a TODO list.
| kllvql wrote:
| One small additional point. I completely agree that Jagex has
| done a great job maintaining OSRS. Polls for changes to OSRS
| typically require 70% of votes to pass[1] instead of a simple
| majority. This is part of the reason why it is difficult to get
| major changes like new skills added to the game.
|
| As a long-time player, I really enjoy the conservatism this
| leads to in the evolution of the game. It is great to be able
| to pick up my character after a year or two off and have a very
| similar experience (+/- a few quality of life updates I'm
| likely to appreciate).
|
| [1] https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Polls
| themodelplumber wrote:
| Oh fun, I love discovering new game projects like that.
|
| I'm curious, let's say I've only played like Crawl down to level
| 7, and some Torchlight II. What's the daily routine / grind /
| goal look like in this kind of game? It seems to include some
| social or community aspects? Are those part of the game itself
| or?
|
| (And, just as a veteran web designer, can I say that I _love_
| seeing that good old textured website style again. Obvious
| Voronoi mathematics included. :-) Smoking hot stuff right there
| in historical context, but also even in broader design-principles
| terms...not even joking. Crucify me on those wrought-iron headers
| if you wish)
|
| (There's a 2011scape too...? What is this?)
| 72736379 wrote:
| This is a "private server" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priva
| te_server#Private_Servers...) for a version of RuneScape from
| 2009.
| themodelplumber wrote:
| Thanks, so it seems like it's a community-chat focused game
| in some ways? Do people just wander in and play solo too?
| calvinmorrison wrote:
| There's a large amount of osrs that play "ironman" myself
| included which prohibits interacting with the economy at
| all.
|
| This is a trade off for me because I would prefer 2006scape
| or pre market place economy where you had to buy and sell
| manually by sitting in an area and trade. Automated trading
| economy made a lot of the content of the game easy to cheat
| because a good deal of the Quests and such are really just
| running around picking up obscure items. With the exchange
| and the wiki its practically ez scape.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| It's a very solo friendly MMO. Private servers are usually
| for people who want changes to the official game (or
| removal of changes), and sometimes just to avoid paying
| subscription fees. This one is aiming to replicate the
| official state of the game as it was in 2009.
|
| It's mostly a "grind" sort of game with simplistic combat.
| It's pretty relaxing for the most part, though it does have
| some tense PvP elements if you enter into some special
| areas. You can definitely play it fully focused, but most
| people would conside it a "Second Monitor" game. i.e. You
| can watch YouTube or do work and keep old-school RuneScape
| active on a second screen, interacting every minute or so.
| detuks wrote:
| Shameless plug: Runescape JS, WASM, webgl client -
| https://play.rsps.app Built it a while ago. Doable for other
| bases as well
|
| P.S. https://github.com/reinismu/runescape-web-client-377 Souce
| code for one of my first ports
| ano224400 wrote:
| This is very cool. Love the default builds. I tried from my
| mobile browser and swiftly got PKed :) Thanks for sharing.
| OsrsNeedsf2P wrote:
| I played this back when it was a duel arena staking thing.
| Loved the idea, but it never took off. You should invest more
| time into it!
| detuks wrote:
| Forgot to mention https://github.com/reinismu/runescape-web-
| client-377 Source code for one of my first ports
| s5300 wrote:
| [dead]
| fallat wrote:
| I'd love to see Jagex open source OSRS as a business decision to
| keep the game alive forever, and for leveraging the dedicated
| community.
|
| Now, I said open source, but that doesn't mean free. Even if the
| source was available, it would make the most sense if they kept
| it "non-free", as in, no commercial usage of the source may be
| allowed.
|
| People are free to run their own servers, but the Jagex ones will
| be "blessed".
|
| The only problem I see is if some group in a country outside of
| IP legality were to take it and try to monetize it.
|
| Alternatively I hope one day Jagex has a "hail mary" and releases
| the source when they think the game is considered commercially
| dead.
| memefrog wrote:
| 'Open source' and 'free (as in speech)' are, in the software
| context, synonyms. It is incoherent to say 'open source but
| non-commercial'.
| gcau wrote:
| I disagree. You're basically saying, "open source code isn't
| open-source". There's nothing incoherent about what they
| said.
| NavinF wrote:
| "Licenses which only permit non-commercial redistribution
| or modification of the source code for personal use only
| are generally not considered as open-source licenses.
| However, open-source licenses may have some restrictions,
| particularly regarding the expression of respect to the
| origin of software, such as a requirement to preserve the
| name of the authors and a copyright statement within the
| code, or a requirement to redistribute the licensed
| software only under the same license (as in a copyleft
| license)"
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source
|
| "No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor
|
| The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the
| program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it
| may not restrict the program from being used in a business,
| or from being used for genetic research"
|
| https://opensource.org/osd/
|
| If you don't allow commercial use, your code is "source-
| available", not "open source"
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software
| Kiro wrote:
| Common speak disagrees with you and that's all that
| matters.
| memefrog wrote:
| No, it doesn't. Everyone knows what 'open source' means:
| what the open source definition says. Literally the
| *only* place on the Internet where people pretend this
| isn't true is HN. I have never seen anyone suggest that
| 'open source' means anything else anywhere else.
| gcau wrote:
| I have the exact opposite experience.
| gcau wrote:
| I just disagree and use a different definition of open
| source than you/your sources (many people share my
| definition, mind you). If the source is open, its open-
| source. It can be free, commercial, or have any license.
| I feel like people with the other definition of OS, do it
| because they have a vendetta against companies that open-
| source code with a non-free license.
| memefrog wrote:
| >I feel like people with the other definition of OS, do
| it because they have a vendetta against companies that
| open-source code with a non-free license.
|
| No. It is because that's what the term means and has
| *ALWAYS* meant. You don't get to just turn up and change
| the definition of a term that has been fixed and useful
| as a term for _decades_. This isn 't the evolution of
| language. It's just you ignorantly being unaware of the
| actual definition and using your own.
| gcau wrote:
| I can and I am.
| memefrog wrote:
| No, I am saying open source code is open source. Open
| source has had an established, fixed definition for
| decades. It was coined for a specific purpose to represent
| a particular category of software licence.
|
| You are doing a disservice to anyone reading what you write
| if you use a term with a fixed, established definition to
| mean something completely different without signalling that
| you are doing so. Language is for communication.
| Kiro wrote:
| It doesn't matter. Your definition is legacy and not what
| open source refers to in common speak.
| memefrog wrote:
| I don't know what 'your definition is legacy' means.
| Could you try to speak English?
|
| 'Open source' has meant the same thing for decades. Its
| meaning has not changed.
| [deleted]
| Kiro wrote:
| > Could you try to speak English?
|
| Nice way to invalidate any current or future arguments
| you may have.
| TZubiri wrote:
| Are you deliberately invoking the Stallman acolytes?
| ben_w wrote:
| CC-NC isn't OS for you?
| hoten wrote:
| Not the same, but Jagex has embraced (probably because they
| really had no choice) the 3p client "RuneLite". There is an
| understanding between Jagex and that community that the client
| is blessed, but only if they steer clear of certain features -
| like things that would reduce how much you have to interact
| with UI in the game, such as re-ordering items in the
| Construction right-click menu for convenience.
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| TIL that this is why I couldn't configure the Menu Item
| Swapper or whatever last week when I was leveling
| Construction with oak larders. I wonder what makes
| construction a special case here vs, say, allowing one click
| dropping of collected resources.
| smohare wrote:
| [dead]
| christofosho wrote:
| Old RuneScape private servers like Dodian, Ub3r server, these got
| me started on my programming journey. Gotta throw out a thank you
| to Winten, and all the folks there. After playing RuneScape since
| 2001, it is great to see progress continues. Projects like
| https://rsc.vet keep the oldest version alive. RuneScape lead me
| to a Software career! ( - Formerly "Kankles" alias)
| KyleBerezin wrote:
| I'm happy to see Jagex is still around to this day. They used to
| make a lot of free games that you could play in the browser. Pre-
| runescape, I wasted many hours playing games like vertigo and
| flea circus. It makes me happy to see the company is still alive
| and well, though it probably has been through many changes.
| david_shi wrote:
| How does this server prevent bots and spam? Curious if that's
| built into the project.
| [deleted]
| joshstrange wrote:
| It seems the UI Scale option doesn't work on Mac? I tried this
| repo [0] but it wasn't launching correctly. Also HD mode doesn't
| work on Mac.
|
| I then installed Ubuntu (arm server, then installed desktop) via
| UTM and installed 2009scape via flatpack and was able to scale
| the UI up but still no HD mode. Scaling is better than nothing
| even if I have to run a VM but I wish I could run HD. I can't
| find much info about this online unfortunately other than the FAQ
| saying you need java 11 (the flatpack installed that) and that it
| doesn't work on Mac.
|
| [0] https://github.com/downthecrop/2009Scape-macOS-HD
| insanitybit wrote:
| Absolutely slamming the nostalgia region of my brain.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNW9TAwImBY
|
| Something very deep inside of me is triggered by Runescape. I
| think staying up all night for days in a row playing just
| permanently ingrained certain emotions of my teenage self, and
| nothing lets me access them the way Runescape does.
| taswellian wrote:
| I feel the same way... happy and sad at the same time. Great
| music!
| macromagnon wrote:
| I still remember when notes/certificates to allow stacking any
| items came out but you could only do one inventory at a time at
| an npc.
|
| Eventually (not sure how long after) you could just toggle the
| option at the bank.
|
| Talk about qol improvements.
| samanator wrote:
| Source code for the server:
|
| https://gitlab.com/2009scape/2009scape
| dumbaccount123 wrote:
| [dead]
| EarthLaunch wrote:
| I'm making a UO inspired MMO and have been wanting to play more
| MMOs lately. Anyone similar up for experimenting with RS, WoW HC,
| Zenith, LiF, MO, UO player servers, or anything? Hit me up!
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Check out Tibia as well. Online since the 90s.
| mikedelago wrote:
| Cool, I didn't realize Runescape private servers were a thing
| still.
|
| I contribute to AzerothCore[0] pretty regularly. There's a lot of
| improvements that could be made, but it's overall fun and the
| majority of people who frequent their Discord are friendly
| enough.
|
| [0] https://github.com/azerothcore/azerothcore-wotlk
| [deleted]
| kingkongjaffa wrote:
| My 2 cents is that evolution of combat is good actually, up to a
| point. Because the apm and tick rate are limited, getting good
| after a certain point means memorizing an exact rotation,
| learning keyboard shortcuts, memorizing the boss mechanics to
| know when to switch to a shield and res or whatever. Point being
| it's not really fun. After a while any minor mistake on a
| challenging boss screws you up really bad.
| parimal7 wrote:
| EOC has no place in Runescape which has a global tick system.
| Ability usage feels sluggish compared to other games.
| [deleted]
| Multicomp wrote:
| I am seriously tempted by a project like this. They even have a
| linux client!
|
| The pinnacle of my Runescape days was just after they opened the
| Grand Exchange. That was around the time I realized that if I
| didn't stop playing this game every night, I'd have no life, so I
| began the process of walking away.
|
| The fact that I lost my login (pre-password manager days) had
| nothing to do with me making that wise decision, nor the fact
| that I still don't have a life.
| sph wrote:
| I decided there are worse thing I can waste my time on, so a
| few years ago I installed Old School Runescape for the first
| time and made an Ironman character (you can use banks but you
| can't trade with players, so you have to do all the content
| yourself), after falling in love with the adventures of
| Swampletics.
|
| https://youtu.be/O9wG5jGP32M
|
| I play a couple hours a week, and I love it. It is a game that
| will have content for me to do for the next decade, and lately
| the dev activity and player count have picked up. It is
| incredible to see a 20 years old game to be the third most
| played MMO in the world.
|
| As in game as in life, progress is a slow grind, but put in the
| effort, and you get rewarded for it.. eventually.
| csours wrote:
| selling unids 400
|
| How much did unids sell for?
|
| I've thought about a t-shirt that says "selling unids" just to
| see how many people get it
|
| ----
|
| Unids are Unidentified Herbs, an item since removed from RS.
| Processing Unids was a relatively fast and very repeatable way
| to get Herblore experience.
| maxdamantus wrote:
| Pretty sure I used to buy them for 1k each. Identified
| Ranarrs would sell for around 7k each, and I think prayer
| potions (4) would sell at a slight profit for 9k. I guess the
| lack of "make X" and automatic decanting made skilling
| actually profitable.
|
| EDIT: actually, I think the 1k price was probably limited to
| herbs above a certain level. It was common practice to buy
| noted herbs above a certain level and keep your inventory
| full with other items to block trades with unidentified Guam
| leaves.
|
| Here's another activity that will probably never exist again:
| Law running. I remember both being a runner and a crafter.
| robrtsql wrote:
| > Here's another activity that will probably never exist
| again: Law running. I remember both being a runner and a
| crafter.
|
| I'm out of the loop (I tried 2007scape but don't play it
| enough to be in the know). Is it because some other faster
| way of leveling Runecrafting has become available?
| maxdamantus wrote:
| In modern OSRS I believe the main way of training
| Runecrafting is through the Ourania altar, and at higher
| levels the Soul/Blood altars, both OSRS-specific (I've
| used both as an Ironman player, but haven't played in the
| last few years, so not familiar with newer updates).
|
| I suspect Law crafting (with runners) would still be more
| XP per hour, but I think the player dynamics are quite
| different nowadays. You used to spend a lot of time at
| the start trying out various things that are no longer
| "efficient" (another thing I remember doing was mining
| rune essence--I didn't do that at all in OSRS). I think
| it's because of a combination of things, like the age of
| players (younger people might not be as good at
| strategising), visibility through social media (eg,
| Twitch/Reddit) about how to play the game "properly", and
| modern updates that make some of the tedious tasks
| unnecessary (in Ironman, I think I got my rune essence
| from newer PvM and the "Temple Trekking" minigame). For
| all of these reasons, you don't end up with people that
| would be willing to queue to trade their time for someone
| else's runecrafting experience and a couple of Law runes.
| eigenket wrote:
| I think that most people these days train runecrafting
| with the "guardians of the rift" minigame. At least at
| lower levels. It adds some rewards and makes it somewhat
| less tedious.
| [deleted]
| koryk wrote:
| I would love if someone forks this and turns it into an AI
| competition. Like that social network only for bots, this would
| be a runescape server only for bots.
| toasteros wrote:
| OpenRSC[1] has two servers that are dedicated to botting.
|
| [1] https://rsc.vet/
| branon wrote:
| There's a similar project where the intent is to automate the
| game - https://github.com/dginovker/2006rebotted
|
| I think 2009scape itself might even have some automation-
| focused servers as well
| TZubiri wrote:
| As a server focused on HQ graphics, botting doesn't quite fit
| with the values.
| hoten wrote:
| With or without random events? :)
| dharmab wrote:
| I was using bots that could handle random events way back in
| 2003 or so.
| moomoo11 wrote:
| RuneScape taught me (as a kid about two decades ago) some very
| essential life lessons.
|
| Who can I trust? How do I empower my team? What is the best way
| to turn fear and anxiety into success and glory?
|
| I was scammed around 10 years old and I remember crying lol. But
| it also motivated me to play the game differently to focus on
| market factors and make all that money plus way more.
|
| I remember being 11 with a dozen or so of the boys going into the
| deep wilderness with the boys taking on high level players as a
| group. We all had our roles and jobs. I recently heard the
| ancient magick ice barrage sound and it brought back those
| memories. We made so much money fighting in the wilderness, and
| some time later we got into the fishing and runes businesses. we
| had running business of lobsters, nature and law runes and it was
| way more lucrative than risking a lot in the wilderness.
|
| I quit just after the grand exchange was implemented like 2008.
| Imo it was the end for me and I have never really played video
| games like that ever since. Probably never will since I'm an
| adult now and real life is way more fun. But the grand exchange
| really killed the "social" aspect of that game. You no longer
| needed to interact with others. The in game market and economy
| were basically removed. There was no longer a reason to interact
| with people in the game as everything became on demand.
|
| Anyway this brought back some great childhood memories.
| TZubiri wrote:
| But the grand exchange really killed the "social" aspect of
| that game.
|
| RIP The Falador and Varrock markets
|
| There were spots dedicated to certain items, and this wasn't
| programmed in the game, it was ingrained in the folklore of the
| community.
| Tyluur wrote:
| Personally I prefer 2011scape but this is good too.
| nicechianti wrote:
| [dead]
| impulser_ wrote:
| Can't believe Runescape private server are still a thing after 18
| years. This is what got me into programming. I remember working
| with the first version back in early 2006 I believe it was called
| winterlove. You couldn't even play multiplayer. Then someone got
| multiplayer to work, I think that was called blakescape, then
| there was cheezscape and whitescape which became the popular
| versions to use because they came with a lot of content like
| combat ect.
|
| All of the coding I did was done using notepad on Windows lol.
|
| I remember when the major version this server is based on
| 470-500+ versions which is when they updated the graphics. We
| spent days trying to be the first one to get a working server and
| client. You had to mod the client and walk around the game to
| collect map data to be able to load the map on private server.
|
| The most fun times I had programing to this day.
| squeaky-clean wrote:
| A friend of mine in college made about $500~1000/mo running
| some Runescape private servers with subscriptions. He hosted a
| few different types of servers, but I know his most profitable
| one allowed players to buy "chests". Basically modern-day loot
| boxes with random high level gear. He got the idea from Korean
| MMOs at the time. No idea what he's up to nowadays.
| impulser_ wrote:
| Back when the economy in RS wasn't bad, the play I did would
| be to run an RSPS server and sell items, stats, ect. in it
| for gold in actual Runescape and then sell that gold for
| actual money. 1m was like a little over 1$ back then.
| Tyluur wrote:
| Same here, the RSPS communities paved the way for lots of us.
| scrapcode wrote:
| I never really got into Runescape but I did start programming
| in PHP with notepad and attribute a very accurate "tab pinky"
| to those long nights. If I remember correctly, Notepad was the
| only thing I directly edit remote files in using CuteFTP, so I
| think that's why I used it at the time as I learned by editing
| existing "scripts." Good times.
| Shekelphile wrote:
| Permabanned from r-s gang wya?
|
| I miss laughing at 2speced Tyler and Nikki not actually being a
| girl wasn't much of a surprise.
| iamricks wrote:
| Tyler and Blurr were legendary in the RSPS scene, 2speced was
| such a wellmade and maintained RSPS. I wonder where they are
| now.
| sph wrote:
| It is known that in Runescape "girl" = "Guy In Real Life"
| Shekelphile wrote:
| r-s =/= rs (runescape)
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| I also got into programming like this. I even remember working
| with whitefang, the creator of whitescape, to try and build a
| 377 server when everyone was on 317. I don't remember if that
| attempt ever got anywhere though.
|
| I think what you're describing with all the code bases is why I
| lost interest. It felt like everyone was just doing their own
| thing without any collaboration. Unlike say World of Warcraft
| servers where everyone used MaNGOS. I hope it's better now
| veave wrote:
| I'm into the wow emu world and it really isn't. There are
| several forks of mangos and people still don't share their
| changes.
| ThatPlayer wrote:
| I meant about 15 years ago when I believe it was mangos and
| scriptdev2. Compared to runescape servers which I don't
| think any server software even had a CVS/SVN repo. It was
| just zip downloads on rapidshare on a downloads sub-forum
| with zero expectation of there ever being an update.
|
| In fact it looks like those forums are still up, and still
| has all the old posts. I found an aggregate list from 2008
| with 300+ (dead) links to various releases. And this was
| before multiple clients versions were even a thing. There
| were only 317 servers, which still seem to be very popular
| today.
| mikedelago wrote:
| I'm also in wow emu world and I agree. Maintainers seem to
| be quite picky with accepting changes.
|
| there's also so many weird quirks to the projects, it's
| basically what keeps me coming back.
| nickzelei wrote:
| I played a lot of moparscape back in the day. Was a fun
| community of people. Learned a lot standing up my own server
| and getting it listed on their registry for others to join.
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